But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Eco, with regards to me calling you a scumread but also not a scumread, consider the following:
I RVS Seppel. You RVS Az. Seppel swaps his vote to you. I think the way he did it was towny, so I followed. I did not like your attempts to brush off the vote.
Leaning Town: I like the way you jumped right in asking questions, trying to extract meaning behind posts. #39 shows a kind of self-awareness that I wouldn't expect from scum (i.e. scum would be more likely to go "oh sweet we mindmelded let's vote Eco too").
I'd also drop a town read on Mal because deliberately being scummy in their first post but not actually using it as a trap to easily put down a vote, but instead to try and replicate a previous game to get a read out of Voxx isn't a scum move.
Anyway, they started the wagon, why should I take issue with it?
OK, but why are the votes that started the wagon the ONLY ones that matter? Why is Az a wagon starter but Vaimes is not, given that Vaimes voted me before Az did? Do you have any kind of independent read on me, or are you happy to just follow the votes of others for now?
No supporting evidence, no attempt at guiding me else where. Just trying to get me away from him.
You are ride-or-die accusing me of being scum because my random vote was insufficiently excited! There's literally nothing I can say or do that will demonstrate that you're wrong because you've just decided I'm scum based off a ridiculously subjective interpretation of a single post. This is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
I can't believe no one is alarmed at the speed of this wagon or lack of counter wagon if eco is wolf.
So why aren't you looking at making a counterwagon or analysing this one? Is it because you're happy to just hang back and watch me get lynched? Why are you even voting Seppel anyways?
Eco, with regards to me calling you a scumread but also not a scumread, consider the following:
I RVS Seppel. You RVS Az. Seppel swaps his vote to you. I think the way he did it was towny, so I followed. I did not like your attempts to brush off the vote.
That's all.
OK, that makes sense. Presumably you still think I'm scum right now?
Yeah, this game isn't going to work if 75% of the playerbase is either playing their cards super close to the chest, or just not invested at all; for some of you I honestly can't tell which.
I was waiting for Eco to respond but **** it, it's taking forever.
If Eco's scum here I think there's a real chance it's Eco/Voxx/X, which hurts.
There's not really much to go on, but I agree Seppel and Az are unlikely to both me Mafia, same with Az and Chris. As for the votes, I think Chris' looks kind of bad since he kind of asked Az permission to join the wagon, but he did it with a pointless question that no-one would answer negative to: so why didn't Chris just vote me in the first place? Also don't like Vaimes' vote all that much, since both #42 and #63 kind of contradict: the former suggests he doesn't actually think I'm scum, but the latter calls me a scum read (@Vaimes please explain). I strongly disling Voxx's not-vote on me: notice how #66 actually lays out a justification for voting me (which is more than anyone else had done), but doesn't do the deed himself or pass any kind of judgement on my alignment. Just dangles it out there for others to use.
Vote Voxxicus
Specifically, if Eco is scum who got rocked back on his heels here, lashing out at a partner feels kinda like the only / strongest move when you're tilted like that, and if this is Eco's honest assessment of the people surrounding his early vote pileup, he missed one:
OK I'm caught up; kind of weirded out that it was that short for a game that started this morning. I need to recalibrate /hard/ to MTGS I think.
I think Eco's responses to Seppel/Azrael feel kind of overly, hm, not reasonable but overly careful maybe? I think there's a decent shot they're both town and caught Eco a bit flat-footed there. I don't /think/ he's aligned with either of them, and prooooobably Seppel/Azrael not knowingly aligned as well, though that's thin for sure given what I know about them. I still don't really see what they jumped on in his first post and I kind of want that discussion.
Which is almost exactly what Eco's tagging Voxx for here: taking a swipe at Eco with some justification. Since I posted before Voxx, Eco slapping Voxx with "just dangling it out there for people to use" is... I'm putting myself in town!Eco's head here, and unless he literally didn't read my post I don't see how he focuses on Voxx here but doesn't on me, especially since I'm the one asking the question.
What went on in his head made a ton more sense if he's scum here, since it's like - he's not honestly scanning the thread and talking about it, he's pushing for an agenda, he's looking for Things To Comment On To Sound Town.
I'm considering the other permutation here, where Eco's scum and trying to push a mislynch on town!Voxx here, or a level deeper, making it look like town!Voxx is his partner, but pushing early on Voxx of all people when you're cornered scum is kinda ???, and I kinda think if it's the second thing, he'd have highlighted it in some way, not stuck it in the middle of a post like that.
So yeah, if Eco flips scum, Voxx probably never escapes the PoE for me.
I'm only at about 50/50 on Eco, which is, eh, a moderate scumread. I would agree with GJ's "this feels too consensus-y" except the game is just too young for that to really be a thing. Aside from me/Vaimes sparring a bit - and god, can someone please talk about that or /something/? It's honestly bruising my ego a tiny bit that no one found anything to comment on there beyond Voxx using it to poke Chris with in the most desultory way possible.
I feel like if Eco's town here, I don't really have a solid handle on what the gamestate is. I'd kiiinda tend to go with "people who are staying out of the way are >rand wolf" but that could be so many people.
I think gun to my head, Vaimes is town here, but I just viscerally don't /like/ the way he pushed me. It didn't feel malicious or awkward, it felt... I actually can't think of a word. Dissonant, maybe. Some kind of disconnect between what he was saying at what he was doing. Despite that niggling doubt I have no interest in lynching him; I feel like I'll be able to sort him later and especially when I'm not directly interacting with him, that was definitely a mistake. And yeah light town I guess, but it's all tonal, which is a good way to read Vaimes but again, that disconnect. Vaimes if you're town here and you don't quite know what to do with me, the feeling's mutual.
I think it was this actually. I could buy this from Vaimes in isolation but combined with his next 4-5 posts it felt like one of the two of them didn't work with each other.
Everyone else is just either not posting or doing things so comfortably in their range as either alignment that I just have nothing. Like, Mal's RVS thing could come from either alignment. tom's BS could come from either alignment. Voxx's poke at Mal was out of the Voxx Handbook Of First Posts 101. Voxx actually /feels/ kinda town especially with how he replied to my Seppel ask; if he's mafia here it's 100% because Eco spewed him wolf, which would be pretty funny / annoying.
Chris is nada.
Azrael's interactions with Eco make him not w/w with Eco I think. If Eco's town, I'm not sure that really moves the needle on Azrael one way or another.
Iso miiiiight look a little worse in town!Eco worlds, for the way he's repping complacency with the lynch while being like the 5th person on it?
GJ's two posts are almost too textbook wolfy to be a wolf. But yeah, they don't look great.
Hi Az, I'm somebody whose default mode of thought about how to play mafia comes across as scummy, but I'm really bad at playing scum and can be very transparently town when I have something to dig into.
Voxx/Vaimes both think I should have been doing my normal town thing tonight, but I didn't really have much time so I decided to go fishing instead.
You should know that the only time I've rolled scum in a game with both of them, Voxx caught me for making an awkward sounding RVS vote. I decided to emulate that this game to see what would happen.
I'm sleeping now, and will post something real in the morning.
@Azrael this was posted at your request; why'd you ask Mal that, and what did you get from it?
okay so I actually read the thread now albeit backwards and I'm going to bed after I make this post.
So I'm down with the Eco wagon, it feels right and neither Az nor Seppel have given me bad vibes. Not moving that vote.
GJ's opening seemed uh, out of place? I'm not really sure how to describe it other than a gut feeling since he hasn't posted since.
I like that mal's opening was deliberate, that it prickled Voxxicus accordingly, and that he responded to it. We have half of this game cleared, already.
I'd really appreciate if tom dropped the posting gimmick, but whatever. I'm sure his votes will reveal his true face. (Is there a Lolth card in Hearthstone?)
I sort of glazed over Vaimes & Newcomb's exchange. I'll sort them out with wagon analysis, as well.
So that just leaves:
Vaimes
Newcomb
Cyan
Chris
tom
GJ
and I don't think Cyan has posted, yet, of those six.
-
@Chris: Let's tango. Tell me about your opening post. Should I be townreading you for it?
Yeah the thing is I kinda /agree/ with most of that? And not everyone has the same drive/engagement/desire or feels the same paranoia or level of wanting to solve or whatever but I'm sitting here thinking "man if it's not like Eco/Voxx/GJ we're kinda not playing a great game right now." I'm specifically thinking of GoldenEye here, which I read preeeeetty closely? In which Iso had a very specific idea about what the gamestate was, but pushed it in a way that felt much more visceral, like there were stakes.
"I'd really appreciate if tom dropped the posting gimmick, but whatever. I'm sure his votes will reveal his true face. (Is there a Lolth card in Hearthstone?)"
Like... yeah even for someone who's completely content with the D1 wagon and the people on it, that's a pretty stunning lack of feeling or engagement.
tom is deliberately obfuscating his content, which is annoying. I wish you guys had just lynched that tendency out of him when he started messing around with gimmicks and whatnot, but that ship has probably sailed. He's an easy PoE lynch at this point.
Seppel's proooobably clear if Eco's mafia; even with MTGS's bus-heavy meta, that would be quite the hellbus. If he's somehow w/w with Eco I'm kind of gleefully rubbing my hands in anticpation of the truly massive amounts of salt that will be revealed in wolfchat after the game, which is bad of me.
Oh yeah and this Seppel post independently of Eco's alignment feels decently town:
This is an off-kilter response to your pressure that you applied by repping a serious vote on Ecco for his 1st post voting Az that I saw no problem with.
What did you see, and was it meta or non-meta?
His post was decidedly not a random vote. He showed no excitement or feeling that he was doing something fun by voting Az. It was a calculated play of attempting to do something fun, but without any of the associated feelings of doing something fun.
Then, I stated that my vote was serious. He has since tried desperately to shrug me off by posting a meme and downplaying my vote. Essentially laughing in our faces, implying that he won't crack.
I'm alarmed at the lack of anything, tbh. Is this mafia, or a slumber party where everyone is too old and tired to actually play the party games?
im 12
I dunno, I feel like the Eco lynch is a slam dunk, and we have a good secondary lead off of the above GJ post.
GJ/Iso prooooobably not w/w for this? Although, lol, in the world where Eco's mafia I could almost see this as a "hit the panic button" distance if it's actually Eco/Iso/GJ. That's at the level of "passing fancy" though.
Also, the fact that there's not really a lot of push in another direction is probably a good indicator that the Cyan slot is scum.
That's kind of a town thought to have, I think?
Although I kind of want to ask you, Iso, /exactly/ what you meant by it? Because reading it again now I actually think you could mean it in a few ways.
___
So yeah. This game is probably pretty easy if Eco's mafia here, but so far this is pretty zzzzz. You're all experienced and good and everything, no one needs a lecture. But this game isn't going to become fun unless some people step up. Snoozing our way to a D1 Eco lynch is pretty boring even if he is mafia, and would be preeeeetty embarrassing if he's town.
You're right I kind of glossed over your "poking me" post when I was doing stuff on the wagon because I was specifically looking at people voting me + I made a note of Voxx's post (and not yours). In any case, yours is much more "thinking aloud trying to see what people saw": Voxx's was clear cut AND included a precedent for people to use.
Page 1: Vaimes and Newcome both come across to me as thoroughly scummy. Their interactions reek of being same alignment, and not in a town way. The Eco wagon seems like much ado about nothing.
Page 2: Seppel explains his reasoning for initially voting Eco, which I find to be dubious at best. If it were anyone other than Seppel, I'd probably be voting here. But I've been burned on that too many times to count, so I'll wait and see what happens. Iso's summary post feels pretty townie, even if I disagree with him re: Seppel. Vaimes continues to get worse. He's maintained a scum read on newcombe for 2 pages(without voting him from what I can tell), but then hops onto the most popular wagon around instead, with no meaningful explanation for his change of heart.
Page 2: Seppel explains his reasoning for initially voting Eco, which I find to be dubious at best. If it were anyone other than Seppel, I'd probably be voting here. But I've been burned on that too many times to count, so I'll wait and see what happens.
Wow GROSS.
1) When have you EVER agreed on a read of mine and followed along? Burned too many times? BS. ("But but Seppel I was talking about in general not you, honest!!")
2) "I'll wait and see what happens." Gag me with a spoon and crown me Miss Universe.
Eco wagon is pretty trashy, Iso pretty much proves he can only actually read me for ***** when he rolls scum (and then waffles on it day 2). Crap, gave away Iso scum tell.
Unvote, Vote Azrael.
tom is lean town. Going past the roleplay, he seems more interactive than anyone here, and cares about interactions.
MT feels really low impact from the one game I remember he was town in (I think it was Dota's grid something)
Newcomb can also be town. I know, I know effort =/= town, but when no one else is doing anything, well....you get the idea. I just picture the state of the game, and the team being tom/Newcomb/X probably means we just get destroyed by apathy.
You're right I kind of glossed over your "poking me" post when I was doing stuff on the wagon because I was specifically looking at people voting me + I made a note of Voxx's post (and not yours). In any case, yours is much more "thinking aloud trying to see what people saw": Voxx's was clear cut AND included a precedent for people to use.
Okay, that's fair I think.
In your last few posts, you've defended yourself from Iso/Seppel without really accusing them of being mafia, thrown shade at GJ/Voxx, and poked Vaimes in a "figure you out" type way that could maybe arguably be heading towards a wolf read.
Who would you say is your top wolf read at this moment in time? You have a dayvig that you have to use right now, if you hit town we lose. Go.
I asked about Mallorean b/c I've never played with him before and know nothing about him. Now I know slightly less than nothing about him, which will help considerably if we don't force the scum to concede early on.
It's not a hard scumread. So far it's been "follow this townread onto a ??? wagon and see if that person only cares about themselves or catching mafia."
And aside from your vote on Voxx, I can't say I see much scumhunting.
I townread you ~fairly easily in Townville, so I'm kind of waiting for that Eco to bring the pain.
Azrael has the second worst vote, and does not feel like he cares. I don't like his "loose but feels right comment".
MT still doesn't feel like townMT. ScumMT in my expirence is much slankier where townMT is kicking the **** out of the slankers.
Gg ez.
What don't you like about it? Compare/contrast Azrael's treatment of Eco to Iso's?
Iso not asking for a claim when knowingly moving someone to L-2 is pretty telling. I don't think I have ever recalled scum Iso making a shove like that. Azrael just did a weak barn of the post, made a comment about how he didn't like it, but felt right and it felt really fake. Like, his tone isn't slow down, let's think about this: it's "shove, shove, shove" knowing that he won't be the main party to catch flak for this.
Besides, we had a little contest last Invitational. Call the scum team for brag points. I was off last year, but I feel like I snagged at least a pair of wolfskins this year.
Besides, we had a little contest last Invitational. Call the scum team for brag points. I was off last year, but I feel like I snagged at least a pair of wolfskins this year.
I give you a 1 for trying, but also -1 for being predictable.
What, were you expecting me to vote SC or something? It isn't hard to predict I am going to dig into my scum reads. Don't know where the **** the other two ran off to, so you'll do.
Newcomb, if tom won't cut his gimmicks when I ask him nicely, what makes you think he'll listen to you?
Also I just noticed you didn't vote for anyone. Don't give a weak scumread like that and not even vote to try and scare me. I might think you're full of hot air and decide to lynch you for it.
I think this is the first time I've felt you were scum on page one. Usually I end up townreading you even if you're scum, for the first few Days at least.
At that point, I think it's too late for it to really come from one alignment more than the other. Either you'll do it as town to actually pressure me, or you'll do it as mafia because you're afraid I'll keep tugging at that particular string.
I'm alarmed at the lack of anything, tbh. Is this mafia, or a slumber party where everyone is too old and tired to actually play the party games?
(Will answer Eco soon, quick phone post.)
You are doing a lot of commentary or ***** posting this far. You say you seem bored, but you got a null read (because you barned Seppel, or maybe you are actually scum reading him (as your last posts seem to suggest) Why are you so bored at the end of day 2? Yes, a ton of people arne't posting, but you have a 4 town core, and what one of your scum reads at L-2. If anything, this should be INCREDIBLY exciting for you.
Iso's post strikes me as possible scum bussing Eco, while setting up a mislynch (you) for Day 2 to make up for the bad D1. Of the five voting explanations against Eco, Iso's is the most suspicious for either a scum bandwagon if Eco is surprise town, or a scum bus, if he's isn't. Several magnitudes higher in concern/reliability for me than the post I poked you for.
Iso's post strikes me as possible scum bussing Eco, while setting up a mislynch (you) for Day 2 to make up for the bad D1. Of the five voting explanations against Eco, Iso's is the most suspicious for either a scum bandwagon if Eco is surprise town, or a scum bus, if he's isn't. Several magnitudes higher in concern/reliability for me than the post I poked you for.
Why do you think there was no counter wagon from start to L-2 if Eco is wolf? Iso buses, but I don't think he buses that early in a w/w world.
Well, while I have you here, what do you think about Vaimes?
Iso not asking for a claim when knowingly moving someone to L-2 is pretty telling. I don't think I have ever recalled scum Iso making a shove like that. Azrael just did a weak barn of the post, made a comment about how he didn't like it, but felt right and it felt really fake. Like, his tone isn't slow down, let's think about this: it's "shove, shove, shove" knowing that he won't be the main party to catch flak for this.
*frowns*
Well, now you're making me doubt myself and musing about Iso double-bus, with all the misrep you're throwing here. I fully expect to steal all the credit for reading Eco correctly, one way or another, good or ill. I don't think I *ever* avoid credit for wagons I push, because I invariably don't shut up about them. So that theory seems...wrong-headed.
What's this comment about Iso never doing that, that you just leave hanging out there? Just a statement of fact - what does that actually mean to you? Which way does it move you?
Is Iso going full-on double bus, or are you his mislynch target?
My tone isn't pushing "slow-down" because there is no way we're going to push him off the edge without it being debated to death, or without my personally unvoting to make sure we do push it to death. And if anyone had hopped on the wagon after that comment, I'd have loved to analyze that.
Pushing phantom fears, there. But why? Hmm. Decent possibility you just misread the situation, in conjunction with your initial post regarding speed, felt the thread was getting out of hand too quick. Reflexive response. Scum not likely to soft pedal the wagon, as Iso is suggesting that you did. Not credible theory on Iso's part.
@Seppel - Cyan's vote against Vaimes is wrong, but very characteristic for Cyan. He doesn't like the wagon, he doesn't like the cut of Vaimes' jib in how he's presenting his vote against Eco, he picks Vaimes for the counter-wagon.
Not alignement indicative for Cyan by any stretch. And IMO, Vaimes' explanation dovetails nicely with my own impressions and outlook, focusing as much or more on the subsequent reaction posts as the initial tell.
What about Iso/Vox, Seps? Sir Chris?
Also, Chris, what's your own stance on Eco thus far?
I'll answer you after work, but GJ, I think this is going to be a problem I'd rather nip in the bud now.
You cannot read me. And you will not be convinced by my attempts to get you to see that I am town. I had to endure your tunneling in Stargate, and I'd rather avoid that song and dance.
You'll probably have better luck letting me do my thing and trying to read that rather than directly engaging with me on the topic of my own alignment.
1) When have you EVER agreed on a read of mine and followed along? Burned too many times? BS. ("But but Seppel I was talking about in general not you, honest!!")
It's hard for me to understand how you took the post this way, but this is not what I meant. I meant that while your argument against Eco sucks, I don't want to just say that it makes you scum, because I've been burnt many times by thinking you were scum when you were actually just full of crap/yourself/other.
Ha, I totally guessed Cyan would vote me there.
Dunno if him being predictable is +town/+scum, unfortunately.
What a bunch of nonsense. How is everyone posting so much, but things like this just go unnoticed?
Give me something better if you want me to townread you after Eco flips scum.
Oh, so you're stepping forward as his buddy. Thanks for making this easy!
im 12
I dunno, I feel like the Eco lynch is a slam dunk, and we have a good secondary lead off of the above GJ post.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2nd scum is Iso.
I RVS Seppel. You RVS Az. Seppel swaps his vote to you. I think the way he did it was towny, so I followed. I did not like your attempts to brush off the vote.
That's all.
Leaning Town: I like the way you jumped right in asking questions, trying to extract meaning behind posts. #39 shows a kind of self-awareness that I wouldn't expect from scum (i.e. scum would be more likely to go "oh sweet we mindmelded let's vote Eco too").
I'd also drop a town read on Mal because deliberately being scummy in their first post but not actually using it as a trap to easily put down a vote, but instead to try and replicate a previous game to get a read out of Voxx isn't a scum move.
OK, but why are the votes that started the wagon the ONLY ones that matter? Why is Az a wagon starter but Vaimes is not, given that Vaimes voted me before Az did? Do you have any kind of independent read on me, or are you happy to just follow the votes of others for now?
You are ride-or-die accusing me of being scum because my random vote was insufficiently excited! There's literally nothing I can say or do that will demonstrate that you're wrong because you've just decided I'm scum based off a ridiculously subjective interpretation of a single post. This is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
So why aren't you looking at making a counterwagon or analysing this one? Is it because you're happy to just hang back and watch me get lynched? Why are you even voting Seppel anyways?
OK, that makes sense. Presumably you still think I'm scum right now?
I was waiting for Eco to respond but **** it, it's taking forever.
If Eco's scum here I think there's a real chance it's Eco/Voxx/X, which hurts.
Specifically, if Eco is scum who got rocked back on his heels here, lashing out at a partner feels kinda like the only / strongest move when you're tilted like that, and if this is Eco's honest assessment of the people surrounding his early vote pileup, he missed one:
My take on the early Eco thing was this:
Which is almost exactly what Eco's tagging Voxx for here: taking a swipe at Eco with some justification. Since I posted before Voxx, Eco slapping Voxx with "just dangling it out there for people to use" is... I'm putting myself in town!Eco's head here, and unless he literally didn't read my post I don't see how he focuses on Voxx here but doesn't on me, especially since I'm the one asking the question.
What went on in his head made a ton more sense if he's scum here, since it's like - he's not honestly scanning the thread and talking about it, he's pushing for an agenda, he's looking for Things To Comment On To Sound Town.
I'm considering the other permutation here, where Eco's scum and trying to push a mislynch on town!Voxx here, or a level deeper, making it look like town!Voxx is his partner, but pushing early on Voxx of all people when you're cornered scum is kinda ???, and I kinda think if it's the second thing, he'd have highlighted it in some way, not stuck it in the middle of a post like that.
So yeah, if Eco flips scum, Voxx probably never escapes the PoE for me.
I'm only at about 50/50 on Eco, which is, eh, a moderate scumread. I would agree with GJ's "this feels too consensus-y" except the game is just too young for that to really be a thing. Aside from me/Vaimes sparring a bit - and god, can someone please talk about that or /something/? It's honestly bruising my ego a tiny bit that no one found anything to comment on there beyond Voxx using it to poke Chris with in the most desultory way possible.
I feel like if Eco's town here, I don't really have a solid handle on what the gamestate is. I'd kiiinda tend to go with "people who are staying out of the way are >rand wolf" but that could be so many people.
I think gun to my head, Vaimes is town here, but I just viscerally don't /like/ the way he pushed me. It didn't feel malicious or awkward, it felt... I actually can't think of a word. Dissonant, maybe. Some kind of disconnect between what he was saying at what he was doing. Despite that niggling doubt I have no interest in lynching him; I feel like I'll be able to sort him later and especially when I'm not directly interacting with him, that was definitely a mistake. And yeah light town I guess, but it's all tonal, which is a good way to read Vaimes but again, that disconnect. Vaimes if you're town here and you don't quite know what to do with me, the feeling's mutual.
I think it was this actually. I could buy this from Vaimes in isolation but combined with his next 4-5 posts it felt like one of the two of them didn't work with each other.
Everyone else is just either not posting or doing things so comfortably in their range as either alignment that I just have nothing. Like, Mal's RVS thing could come from either alignment. tom's BS could come from either alignment. Voxx's poke at Mal was out of the Voxx Handbook Of First Posts 101. Voxx actually /feels/ kinda town especially with how he replied to my Seppel ask; if he's mafia here it's 100% because Eco spewed him wolf, which would be pretty funny / annoying.
Chris is nada.
Azrael's interactions with Eco make him not w/w with Eco I think. If Eco's town, I'm not sure that really moves the needle on Azrael one way or another.
Iso miiiiight look a little worse in town!Eco worlds, for the way he's repping complacency with the lynch while being like the 5th person on it?
GJ's two posts are almost too textbook wolfy to be a wolf. But yeah, they don't look great.
@Azrael this was posted at your request; why'd you ask Mal that, and what did you get from it?
Yeah the thing is I kinda /agree/ with most of that? And not everyone has the same drive/engagement/desire or feels the same paranoia or level of wanting to solve or whatever but I'm sitting here thinking "man if it's not like Eco/Voxx/GJ we're kinda not playing a great game right now." I'm specifically thinking of GoldenEye here, which I read preeeeetty closely? In which Iso had a very specific idea about what the gamestate was, but pushed it in a way that felt much more visceral, like there were stakes.
Like... yeah even for someone who's completely content with the D1 wagon and the people on it, that's a pretty stunning lack of feeling or engagement.
tom is deliberately obfuscating his content, which is annoying. I wish you guys had just lynched that tendency out of him when he started messing around with gimmicks and whatnot, but that ship has probably sailed. He's an easy PoE lynch at this point.
Seppel's proooobably clear if Eco's mafia; even with MTGS's bus-heavy meta, that would be quite the hellbus. If he's somehow w/w with Eco I'm kind of gleefully rubbing my hands in anticpation of the truly massive amounts of salt that will be revealed in wolfchat after the game, which is bad of me.
Oh yeah and this Seppel post independently of Eco's alignment feels decently town:
GJ/Iso prooooobably not w/w for this? Although, lol, in the world where Eco's mafia I could almost see this as a "hit the panic button" distance if it's actually Eco/Iso/GJ. That's at the level of "passing fancy" though.
That's kind of a town thought to have, I think?
Although I kind of want to ask you, Iso, /exactly/ what you meant by it? Because reading it again now I actually think you could mean it in a few ways.
___
So yeah. This game is probably pretty easy if Eco's mafia here, but so far this is pretty zzzzz. You're all experienced and good and everything, no one needs a lecture. But this game isn't going to become fun unless some people step up. Snoozing our way to a D1 Eco lynch is pretty boring even if he is mafia, and would be preeeeetty embarrassing if he's town.
You're right I kind of glossed over your "poking me" post when I was doing stuff on the wagon because I was specifically looking at people voting me + I made a note of Voxx's post (and not yours). In any case, yours is much more "thinking aloud trying to see what people saw": Voxx's was clear cut AND included a precedent for people to use.
vote iso
*taps on the glass*
Page 2: Seppel explains his reasoning for initially voting Eco, which I find to be dubious at best. If it were anyone other than Seppel, I'd probably be voting here. But I've been burned on that too many times to count, so I'll wait and see what happens. Iso's summary post feels pretty townie, even if I disagree with him re: Seppel. Vaimes continues to get worse. He's maintained a scum read on newcombe for 2 pages(without voting him from what I can tell), but then hops onto the most popular wagon around instead, with no meaningful explanation for his change of heart.
Vote Vaimes
*rubs legs together*
*looks at cyan*
*jerks head at eco*
*raises 2 eye
brows quizzically*[5] Ecophagy - Seppel, Vaimes, Azrael, Sir Chris, Iso
[1] Seppel - Gentleman Johnny
[1] Cyan - mallorean_thug
[1] mallorean_thug - Voxxicus
[1] Voxxicus - Ecophagy
[1] Iso - tomsloger
[1] Vaimes - Cyan
Not Voting: Newcomb
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is on Monday, December 12th.
Wow GROSS.
1) When have you EVER agreed on a read of mine and followed along? Burned too many times? BS. ("But but Seppel I was talking about in general not you, honest!!")
2) "I'll wait and see what happens." Gag me with a spoon and crown me Miss Universe.
Eco wagon is pretty trashy, Iso pretty much proves he can only actually read me for ***** when he rolls scum (and then waffles on it day 2). Crap, gave away Iso scum tell.
Unvote, Vote Azrael.
tom is lean town. Going past the roleplay, he seems more interactive than anyone here, and cares about interactions.
MT feels really low impact from the one game I remember he was town in (I think it was Dota's grid something)
Newcomb can also be town. I know, I know effort =/= town, but when no one else is doing anything, well....you get the idea. I just picture the state of the game, and the team being tom/Newcomb/X probably means we just get destroyed by apathy.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Leaving this here for later looks.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Okay, why, to both?
Okay, that's fair I think.
In your last few posts, you've defended yourself from Iso/Seppel without really accusing them of being mafia, thrown shade at GJ/Voxx, and poked Vaimes in a "figure you out" type way that could maybe arguably be heading towards a wolf read.
Who would you say is your top wolf read at this moment in time? You have a dayvig that you have to use right now, if you hit town we lose. Go.
Dunno if him being predictable is +town/+scum, unfortunately.
I can dig that.
I asked about Mallorean b/c I've never played with him before and know nothing about him. Now I know slightly less than nothing about him, which will help considerably if we don't force the scum to concede early on.
It's not a hard scumread. So far it's been "follow this townread onto a ??? wagon and see if that person only cares about themselves or catching mafia."
And aside from your vote on Voxx, I can't say I see much scumhunting.
I townread you ~fairly easily in Townville, so I'm kind of waiting for that Eco to bring the pain.
That said, I feel like Iso is more lean town. But when I get blown the **** out for two in a row, I want a record showing my work.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Hmmmm
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vaimes has the worst vote on Eco
Azrael has the second worst vote, and does not feel like he cares. I don't like his "loose but feels right comment".
MT still doesn't feel like townMT. ScumMT in my expirence is much slankier where townMT is kicking the **** out of the slankers.
Gg ez.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What don't you like about it? Compare/contrast Azrael's treatment of Eco to Iso's?
Iso not asking for a claim when knowingly moving someone to L-2 is pretty telling. I don't think I have ever recalled scum Iso making a shove like that. Azrael just did a weak barn of the post, made a comment about how he didn't like it, but felt right and it felt really fake. Like, his tone isn't slow down, let's think about this: it's "shove, shove, shove" knowing that he won't be the main party to catch flak for this.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GJ, you're putting me to sleep here. At least Newcomb's content is interesting and well thought out.
That's embarrassing.
Unvote, Vote Vaimes
Do I have your attention now, child?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Just call me Walder Frey.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I give you a 1 for trying, but also -1 for being predictable.
ooh_burn.gif
What, were you expecting me to vote SC or something? It isn't hard to predict I am going to dig into my scum reads. Don't know where the **** the other two ran off to, so you'll do.
Whose your scum team right now?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You are doing a lot of commentary or ***** posting this far. You say you seem bored, but you got a null read (because you barned Seppel, or maybe you are actually scum reading him (as your last posts seem to suggest) Why are you so bored at the end of day 2? Yes, a ton of people arne't posting, but you have a 4 town core, and what one of your scum reads at L-2. If anything, this should be INCREDIBLY exciting for you.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Iso's post strikes me as possible scum bussing Eco, while setting up a mislynch (you) for Day 2 to make up for the bad D1. Of the five voting explanations against Eco, Iso's is the most suspicious for either a scum bandwagon if Eco is surprise town, or a scum bus, if he's isn't. Several magnitudes higher in concern/reliability for me than the post I poked you for.
Why do you think there was no counter wagon from start to L-2 if Eco is wolf? Iso buses, but I don't think he buses that early in a w/w world.
Well, while I have you here, what do you think about Vaimes?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I look forward to reading your answer tonight/tomorrow.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
*frowns*
Well, now you're making me doubt myself and musing about Iso double-bus, with all the misrep you're throwing here. I fully expect to steal all the credit for reading Eco correctly, one way or another, good or ill. I don't think I *ever* avoid credit for wagons I push, because I invariably don't shut up about them. So that theory seems...wrong-headed.
What's this comment about Iso never doing that, that you just leave hanging out there? Just a statement of fact - what does that actually mean to you? Which way does it move you?
Is Iso going full-on double bus, or are you his mislynch target?
Pushing phantom fears, there. But why? Hmm. Decent possibility you just misread the situation, in conjunction with your initial post regarding speed, felt the thread was getting out of hand too quick. Reflexive response. Scum not likely to soft pedal the wagon, as Iso is suggesting that you did. Not credible theory on Iso's part.
Still Iso/Vox/Eco I think.
Not alignement indicative for Cyan by any stretch. And IMO, Vaimes' explanation dovetails nicely with my own impressions and outlook, focusing as much or more on the subsequent reaction posts as the initial tell.
What about Iso/Vox, Seps? Sir Chris?
Also, Chris, what's your own stance on Eco thus far?
You cannot read me. And you will not be convinced by my attempts to get you to see that I am town. I had to endure your tunneling in Stargate, and I'd rather avoid that song and dance.
You'll probably have better luck letting me do my thing and trying to read that rather than directly engaging with me on the topic of my own alignment.
Think about it.
It's hard for me to understand how you took the post this way, but this is not what I meant. I meant that while your argument against Eco sucks, I don't want to just say that it makes you scum, because I've been burnt many times by thinking you were scum when you were actually just full of crap/yourself/other.
What a bunch of nonsense. How is everyone posting so much, but things like this just go unnoticed?
*bares a poison-dripping fang at az*
vote az
*continues glaring at iso*
*shakes mandible at cyan*
[5] Ecophagy - Seppel, Vaimes, Azrael, Sir Chris, Iso
[2] Vaimes - Cyan, Gentleman Johnny
[1] Cyan - mallorean_thug
[1] mallorean_thug - Voxxicus
[1] Voxxicus - Ecophagy
[1] Azrael - tomsloger
Not Voting: Newcomb
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is on Monday, December 12th.