2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well you're wrong, but if you show your work how you got there I'd be interested in it clearing you maybe.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
If there's another town PR, I don't know who it is, yet, which is good, because I won't have to out them for them to start analyzing the game properly.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If you're talking about any of Eco/GJ/Cyan, you're dead wrong.
Get. On. My. Level.
Pretty sure I'd still rather kick the stool out from under you than stand up there with you.
How does it feel to be this wrong about basically everything? I'm curious.
Like, is it such a mystery that I've had cruise control on all game with a Mason read on you and Chris, and you and Seppel opening the game by voting scumEco into oblivion, and then GJ and Cyan stepping into the rake minefield immediately after?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If there's another town PR, I don't know who it is, yet, which is good, because I won't have to out them for them to start analyzing the game properly.
BY THE WAY dear Iso, my Vaimes read is pretty on point tbqh ;x.
Like I am constantly am the one having to defend meta but really the only defense for Vaimes so far has been meta. Kind of a weird role reversal.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
How does it feel to be this wrong about basically everything? I'm curious.
Like, is it such a mystery that I've had cruise control on all game with a Mason read on you and Chris, and you and Seppel opening the game by voting scumEco into oblivion, and then GJ and Cyan stepping into the rake minefield immediately after?
This game was solved before post #100.
Honest question, Iso. How many times have you nailed all three scum 100% correctly within the first day in your last ten games?
Follow-up question. Whether you were right or wrong, do you think you carried yourself gracefully throughout?
Oh, that's interesting. I completely missed that Tom tried to vote for Eco as well! Without any explanation, either. Then unvoted immediately, when he saw the vote-count. Interesting...I thought that Tom was simply ignoring Eco, but he actually tried to take him out.
Vox/iso/tom...?
Tom "*nods*" when GJ points out how alarming the speed of the wagon is! Despite having just attempted to join the ultra-fast bandwagon! *raises a big hairy spider eyebrow*
If you need a votecount, ask me for one and I will stop whatever I'm doing and assist.
This votecount may have errors by the way. Let me know if it does.
Vote Count 1.07
[4] Vaimes - Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Sir Chris, Seppel
[4] Cyan - mallorean_thug, tomsloger, Vaimes, Iso
[1] Voxxicus - Ecophagy
[1] Iso - Azrael
[1] Gentleman Johnny - Newcomb
Not Voting: Voxxicus
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is on Monday, December 12th.
I hate both these wagons. Cyan's not making enough posts to be read accurately, he's little better than a lurker lynch in his current state. Vaimes is town, being voted for an attitude that rubs people the wrong way.
Uh... no. It has nothing to do with attitude at all. It has to do with the intent behind his posts.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
@Az: Not counting Micros due to their gimmicky nature and scum games for obvious reasons:
ZDS's Normal: I nailed all 3 scum to the wall on Day 1, and while I missed the Traitor, I didn't need to lynch him to win.
Blackout Mafia: I caught not_a_gimmick when the Rhand wagon was too late to save, and then I decided that we needed to lynch Killjoy and DoT to win. The scum team was not_a_gimmick and DoT.
Mind Screw: I didn't pay attention to this game because when I replaced in it felt like everyone that was posting actively was scum, which was oddly accurate.
Twinborn: I replaced in to this game and nabbed 2 of the 3 scum but wasn't able to put in the effort necessary to convince everyone we should be lynching them and ended up doubting my own reads at the end, which cost us the game (along with a couple of other factors).
Stargate: I was an SK and slaughtered the entire scum team on Day 1, and Newcomb had to gambit/lie to save his team and get me off their backs, which ended up in a lynch on me. It didn't help that I was already under scrutiny for my insane (but accurate) theories on the scumteam. But I did have the entire team pegged D1.
2015 Invitational: I struggled a bit in this game and early on I decided that Proph and Chris were scum but I was never going to catch Wheat.
True Name Mafia: I named 2 of the scum and the Neutral as the scum team on Day 1, but I also was able to name literally every single player's True Name on Day 1, so I think that counts for something.
The Wall Mafia: I named the scum team on Day 1 but nobody listened to me so we lost.
XKCD Mafia: I think I named the scum team on Day 2? Either that, or towards the end of Day 1. I came under scrutiny, myself, and even got lynched, but I was absolutely correct.
Celestial Mafia: I said, "Let's solve Killjoy and AI and I can name the scum team." So we did, and I did. On Day 2.
So let's break it down:
ZDS: Caught all scum D1
Blackout: Implemented game-winning plan before N1
Mind Screw: Everyone was scum
Twinborn: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1
Stargate: Caught all scum D1
Invitational: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1, but then I think I got distracted
True Name Mafia: Caught 2 of 3 scum and a Neutral D1
The Wall Mafia: Caught all scum D1
XKCD Mafia: Caught all scum either at end of D1 or somewhere in D2
Celestial Mafia: Caught all scum D2
As for grace and poise, it really depends on the game. Some games, I was a rockstar. Others, I had to beat people over the head with my worldview. This is looking like it's going to have to be the latter, as much as the early game made me feel like it was going to be the former. I'm sorry if I'm being a dick, but I'm thoroughly annoyed that we've gotten to this point.
-
@Voxx: I've only played a few Micros between then and now. Why?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wanted to see if anything had happened between then and now that should cause your utter confidence in calling the entire team in the first like 50 posts to be shaken.
I've had certainty on scum reads before this early, but entire teams is just something I have trouble wrapping my head around.
Like you set off every alarm bell that you just /can't/ be that sure, that soon, and it feels fake.
It's countered somewhat by the fact that I don't have town reads on any of the three you're calling the scum team (though I think you could absolutely be wrong about 1-2 of them, but right about the others), in a vaccuum.
I mean, everyone told me I couldn't be that confident about the entire team on Day 1 in...basically every game I caught the team Day 1 in.
But it's okay, once one of them flips, the trail of scum dominoes (scuminoes?) will start to topple, because, "Wait a minute - if Iso was right about this one, what about the others?"
In Stargate, when I killed Chris on N1, we hellmurdered tom the next Day straight out the gate and nobody batted an eye. Newcomb and Nacho panicked because they knew they were next if my furious momentum carried on, and they had to dig their feet in REALLY hard for even Newcomb not to get lynched on D3. So, yeah - it'll kinda be like that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
~snip
Voxxicus
Newcomb
Vaimes
Seppel
Tomsloger
Sir Chris
Azrael
Ecophagy
mallorean_thug
Iso
Cyan
Gentleman Johnny
I'm not thrilled about my two preferred lynches being kind of shrug/apathy 'Well, they aren't town reads, and they certainly could be scum so....' levels of scum reads, though.
Voxx I'm just really mixed about you right now.
On the one hand, I agree with almost all of what you said.
On the other hand, I feel like I've already said almost all of those things.
I kinda... don't think you'd play this as scum by kind of clumsily trying to pocket me by just broad-view copying my read on the gamestate. Except... it just seems so conveniently reasonable that your view of it so closely matches mine. And there's really just so little in your post here that strikes me as hitting that critical Insight Level.
Ehhhh.
Yeah I still think you're town. Sorta. I guess I'm more like I'll be vaguely disappointed if you're scum because it just wasn't that exciting to catch you.
The thing that jumps out at me is the lack of trying to figure anything out. There's no attempt to figure out the alignment of the people he's calling scum, he's just calling them scum. There's no attempt to figure out the alignment of people he hasn't mentioned. It's just. Hard for me to parse, because it's strictly. 'This happened. They are scum'.
The last post feels significant to me somehow in terms of tone and mindset.
I just can't quite figure out /how/ it's significant, but I think there's something to it - Cyan just backing off with a 'Sigh...fair enough' feels weird, and kind of a disconnect from the brusque confidence he displayed in previous posts.
He hasn't had many posts, but he's functionally ignored 75% of the game, and idk.
I want Cyan to post more, and focus on people who aren't Vaimes. Because reading him is difficult through the lens of 'I think Vaimes is town, and Cyan has done pretty much nothing but tunnel Vaimes with unwavering confidence, and it's hard to tell if he's town that's wrong, or scum pushing a mislynch'.
Well you're wrong, but if you show your work how you got there I'd be interested in it clearing you maybe.
First post and subsequent interactions/lack thereof with Az in the beginning.
Come at me.
I'm not sure I believe that you really believe this; but assuming it's true, now that Chris has said you're wrong, does your view of the gamestate you know what nevermind you're just going to say it's Eco/GJ/Cyan again.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
~snip
Voxxicus
Newcomb
Vaimes
Seppel
Tomsloger
Sir Chris
Azrael
Ecophagy
mallorean_thug
Iso
Cyan
Gentleman Johnny
I'm not thrilled about my two preferred lynches being kind of shrug/apathy 'Well, they aren't town reads, and they certainly could be scum so....' levels of scum reads, though.
Voxx I'm just really mixed about you right now.
On the one hand, I agree with almost all of what you said.
On the other hand, I feel like I've already said almost all of those things.
I kinda... don't think you'd play this as scum by kind of clumsily trying to pocket me by just broad-view copying my read on the gamestate. Except... it just seems so conveniently reasonable that your view of it so closely matches mine. And there's really just so little in your post here that strikes me as hitting that critical Insight Level.
Ehhhh.
Yeah I still think you're town. Sorta. I guess I'm more like I'll be vaguely disappointed if you're scum because it just wasn't that exciting to catch you.
I think you kind of wanted me to be scum, because I'm not being as high energy as I have been in some games as town. Give me a flip and you'll see more analysis and insight, probably. Everything is just squishy and I'm shrugging at it and going 'I dunno lol'.
I thrive off getting a large group of concrete town reads and narrowing the gamestate down and pinning scum in a box - but the problem with this playerlist, especially on day one, is that I'm reluctant to just call people town without reservations. Like. I don't think you can fake the nuance you had in your huge post, and I don't think you'd express the sentiment you just did about it not being exciting to catch me (if scum), as scum, because you'd know I'm not scum.
But like. Vaimes is my second strongest town read and it's kind of a squishy meta thing where 'He has nuance I wouldn't expect him to have, and he kind of dug in and responded to pressure instead of running to hide in scumchat, so he's probably town' rather than 'Vaimes is lock town, moving down the list'.
I just am having trouble getting town reads and it's hard to articulate why. Part of it is so many people displaying extreme confidence that contrasts so much with the squishy nature of my reads that I have trouble fathoming it being genuine, I think.
With Iso there's this thing where like. 'Scum would care more about role hunting', but 'Why would scum ever actually ask that so brazenly', but 'It's Iso so it's probably not alignment indicative'.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
More seriously, it'd depend how genuine your thought process were when you were proven to be wrong, I think.
Like, I can absolutely see you, as scum, tying 1-2 town to a buddy you buss with this absolute confidence, then going 'Hm, the last one is being tricky', and trying to lead town on a merry goose chase to find the last scum (that's actually you), because.... that's kind of how I tend to play scum.
Still think you're wrong about Vaimes, and trying to attribute aspects to his play that might fit a standard player but don't fit him at all times.
If you had mod confirmation of Vaimes being town, how does your world view change?
(I am not at mod confirmation levels of certainty on Vaimes, I just want people to have to fight for a lynch that I disagree with, since more informative all around).
@Az: Not counting Micros due to their gimmicky nature and scum games for obvious reasons:
ZDS's Normal: I nailed all 3 scum to the wall on Day 1, and while I missed the Traitor, I didn't need to lynch him to win.
Blackout Mafia: I caught not_a_gimmick when the Rhand wagon was too late to save, and then I decided that we needed to lynch Killjoy and DoT to win. The scum team was not_a_gimmick and DoT.
Mind Screw: I didn't pay attention to this game because when I replaced in it felt like everyone that was posting actively was scum, which was oddly accurate.
Twinborn: I replaced in to this game and nabbed 2 of the 3 scum but wasn't able to put in the effort necessary to convince everyone we should be lynching them and ended up doubting my own reads at the end, which cost us the game (along with a couple of other factors).
Stargate: I was an SK and slaughtered the entire scum team on Day 1, and Newcomb had to gambit/lie to save his team and get me off their backs, which ended up in a lynch on me. It didn't help that I was already under scrutiny for my insane (but accurate) theories on the scumteam. But I did have the entire team pegged D1.
2015 Invitational: I struggled a bit in this game and early on I decided that Proph and Chris were scum but I was never going to catch Wheat.
True Name Mafia: I named 2 of the scum and the Neutral as the scum team on Day 1, but I also was able to name literally every single player's True Name on Day 1, so I think that counts for something.
The Wall Mafia: I named the scum team on Day 1 but nobody listened to me so we lost.
XKCD Mafia: I think I named the scum team on Day 2? Either that, or towards the end of Day 1. I came under scrutiny, myself, and even got lynched, but I was absolutely correct.
Celestial Mafia: I said, "Let's solve Killjoy and AI and I can name the scum team." So we did, and I did. On Day 2.
So let's break it down:
ZDS: Caught all scum D1
Blackout: Implemented game-winning plan before N1
Mind Screw: Everyone was scum
Twinborn: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1
Stargate: Caught all scum D1
Invitational: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1, but then I think I got distracted
True Name Mafia: Caught 2 of 3 scum and a Neutral D1
The Wall Mafia: Caught all scum D1
XKCD Mafia: Caught all scum either at end of D1 or somewhere in D2
Celestial Mafia: Caught all scum D2
As for grace and poise, it really depends on the game. Some games, I was a rockstar. Others, I had to beat people over the head with my worldview. This is looking like it's going to have to be the latter, as much as the early game made me feel like it was going to be the former. I'm sorry if I'm being a dick, but I'm thoroughly annoyed that we've gotten to this point.
-
@Voxx: I've only played a few Micros between then and now. Why?
You know, Iso, reading this list, it's like. It seems to be kind of a thing with you.
If you're town here, and you've nailed the scumteam, then you've, A) gotten some correct reads, B) gotten mildly scumread in the process, and C) failed to convince anybody. So even if you're right you're failed at two of the three pillars of being town.
It's like the logic you use to get to where you're going doesn't just jump to conclusions, it takes a jetpack there. And there's no consideration of alternate worlds, paranoia, musing things through if you're wrong here but right here, what that would mean. You just... have a theory, and are pushing it. And when people try to engage you on it, you keep saying "get on my level," or variations thereof. You keep asking us to trust you, but you've failed to foster an environment of trust and cooperation.
I don't really know what to do with that.
Let's say you're right and that's exactly the scumteam and we chain lynch them. That would feel like a pretty hollow victory to me. It would kinda feel like you just divined the role randomization, had that info the whole time, and kind of lazily / perfunctorily pushed the world without ever explaining it in a way that made sense to the rest of us. Which, yeah. Would be a win I guess, and good on ya, but man. I wouldn't count it as one of the most fun games I've ever played.
I know it's annoying to you to rehash/revisit stuff you feel like you've sufficiently covered, but could you give me like your best 1-2 sentences on why you think each one of those three is the team, a sentence on how they're linked, and then when I engage with you saying "okay but what if the way you said this happened, this other thing actually happened", not just brush me off with "there's no use pretending we live in some other world," and actually talk about why you think one narrative is more likely than the other?
This is in no way meant as an attack against your playstyle; it obviously works well enough for you. But this is a team game, man.
More seriously, it'd depend how genuine your thought process were when you were proven to be wrong, I think.
Like, I can absolutely see you, as scum, tying 1-2 town to a buddy you buss with this absolute confidence, then going 'Hm, the last one is being tricky', and trying to lead town on a merry goose chase to find the last scum (that's actually you), because.... that's kind of how I tend to play scum.
Oh, I've absolutely done this before, and it was hilarious and fun. But...what's the benefit to busing 1-2 of my buddies so early, here? I've more than proven that lately, I'm far more of a scum team player than I used to be when I started playing Mafia. Do you disagree with my logic from earlier on regarding this matter, at least as it pertains to Eco?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think the logic works on 'is this possible' level, but I've sort of come around to the possibility of Eco himself being town.
Like, do you legitimately think there's no world possible where only 1-2 of those 3 are scum, and Mal and Tom or something are in there? (Just naming names of people who haven't had major presence and could be MIA scum or hiding-behind-shtick scum)
@Az: Not counting Micros due to their gimmicky nature and scum games for obvious reasons:
ZDS's Normal: I nailed all 3 scum to the wall on Day 1, and while I missed the Traitor, I didn't need to lynch him to win.
Blackout Mafia: I caught not_a_gimmick when the Rhand wagon was too late to save, and then I decided that we needed to lynch Killjoy and DoT to win. The scum team was not_a_gimmick and DoT.
Mind Screw: I didn't pay attention to this game because when I replaced in it felt like everyone that was posting actively was scum, which was oddly accurate.
Twinborn: I replaced in to this game and nabbed 2 of the 3 scum but wasn't able to put in the effort necessary to convince everyone we should be lynching them and ended up doubting my own reads at the end, which cost us the game (along with a couple of other factors).
Stargate: I was an SK and slaughtered the entire scum team on Day 1, and Newcomb had to gambit/lie to save his team and get me off their backs, which ended up in a lynch on me. It didn't help that I was already under scrutiny for my insane (but accurate) theories on the scumteam. But I did have the entire team pegged D1.
2015 Invitational: I struggled a bit in this game and early on I decided that Proph and Chris were scum but I was never going to catch Wheat.
True Name Mafia: I named 2 of the scum and the Neutral as the scum team on Day 1, but I also was able to name literally every single player's True Name on Day 1, so I think that counts for something.
The Wall Mafia: I named the scum team on Day 1 but nobody listened to me so we lost.
XKCD Mafia: I think I named the scum team on Day 2? Either that, or towards the end of Day 1. I came under scrutiny, myself, and even got lynched, but I was absolutely correct.
Celestial Mafia: I said, "Let's solve Killjoy and AI and I can name the scum team." So we did, and I did. On Day 2.
So let's break it down:
ZDS: Caught all scum D1
Blackout: Implemented game-winning plan before N1
Mind Screw: Everyone was scum
Twinborn: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1
Stargate: Caught all scum D1
Invitational: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1, but then I think I got distracted
True Name Mafia: Caught 2 of 3 scum and a Neutral D1
The Wall Mafia: Caught all scum D1
XKCD Mafia: Caught all scum either at end of D1 or somewhere in D2
Celestial Mafia: Caught all scum D2
I can't speak to the rest of the games you mentioned, but yeah, Mind Screw didn't go so hot, and the last invitational, you're glossing a bit on what really happened in that game. Naming a couple of the scum in one post and then shifting your reads around certainly doesn't count as catching the scum. But granting that you're not fudging it on the other eight, that still means that you're only catching all of the scum on D1 in 3/10 games, which were games which presumably did not have a playerbase of this magnitude, aside from the invitational, which was a game in which a number of us felt your primary impact was exposing the town's power roles, mostly because your pride carried you away.
*level look* Right this moment, I can't say it feels we've progressed very far from that experience, though I think Chris certainly shouldn't have asked you what your reasoning was, either. Our breadcrumbs weren't meant to be that hard to find, but trumpeting about the identity of the town's masons publicly on D1 is a death sentence for us, and something you should know better than to do.
At any rate, I can understand a little better where your confidence is coming from, but it's not as if you're the only player in the game capable of doing that. And I would suggest that a much more effective way of doing it is not to attempt to "bludgeon" people into following you by insulting them, but to lead with grace, maturity, and self-control. It's not only a far more effective persuasive technique, but it's a much more sportsmanlike way of handling yourself, and makes the game far more enjoyable for all concerned.
Quote from iso »
As for grace and poise, it really depends on the game. Some games, I was a rockstar. Others, I had to beat people over the head with my worldview. This is looking like it's going to have to be the latter, as much as the early game made me feel like it was going to be the former. I'm sorry if I'm being a dick, but I'm thoroughly annoyed that we've gotten to this point.
No need to be annoyed by my suspecting you. It's practically a tradition, Iso.
If Vaimes is town I'd be going after you very hard for your play so far, Voxx.
I mean I can do that, if you like.
You don't find Vaimes' appeal to authority a little bit weird for him? I mean I'll be blunt this isn't my first game with Vaimes, he isn't some complete mystery to me, the fact that he is being painted as this OFF THE WALL PLAYER who the RULES DON'T APPLY TO and I'll be honest: I think this is people assigning more importance to themselves than needed. Dude's just scum and people are doing that thing they do that let's me win scum games. Stop it and kill Vaimes <_<.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I think the logic works on 'is this possible' level, but I've sort of come around to the possibility of Eco himself being town.
Like, do you legitimately think there's no world possible where only 1-2 of those 3 are scum, and Mal and Tom or something are in there? (Just naming names of people who haven't had major presence and could be MIA scum or hiding-behind-shtick scum)
No, I agree with a lot of his reads. I'm voting GJ; I think Cyanslot could be scum although I'm currently reading the ISO you linked, don't really expect that to change.
I just don't really grok how he got to them, and why his reads haven't evolved or developed much nuance in like 300 posts.
If Vaimes is town I'd be going after you very hard for your play so far, Voxx.
I mean I can do that, if you like.
You don't find Vaimes' appeal to authority a little bit weird for him? I mean I'll be blunt this isn't my first game with Vaimes, he isn't some complete mystery to me, the fact that he is being painted as this OFF THE WALL PLAYER who the RULES DON'T APPLY TO and I'll be honest: I think this is people assigning more importance to themselves than needed. Dude's just scum and people are doing that thing they do that let's me win scum games. Stop it and kill Vaimes <_<.
I don't find it unthinkable that he believes this dude who he doesn't know particularly well is going to have an easier time reading him correctly (when apparently, from his perspetive, said person might NOT be reading him right at all) than two players who he greatly respects and who know him well.
I can see exactly how that post happens from a town Vaimes.
As to attitude, there were a number of attacks against him, maybe not from you, IDK, that were along the lines of: "if he were town, he should be doing X, or he should have done Y," where x and y are things that don't come naturally for his player-type. And on top of that, there's a number of things that I see as pretty high quality town tells from him. IDK what level to assess his town tell faking skills at, but his mindset isn't reading terribly defensive or evasive or lazy in a scum manner, or any of the other charges I've seen against him.
I'll be keeping my eyes out as my reread progresses for material on GJ and Cyan, and the reaction to you that you mentioned as so persuasive to you Iso, but I'm worried that much like Newcomb, I'm not going to agree with you or see things from the same angle. And at that point, I'm going to have to continue to determine whether to keep trying to kill you (half because as a town your reads and townie indicators should seem better to me), or try to convince you that your technique for invitational games may need recalibrated compared to your run-of-the-mill normals and minis.
Talk with me about Cyan, maybe. I linked his ISO a few posts up above, mind reading through it and giving thoughts?
His long post looking at Vaimes feels kind IIoA-y. Like I dunno what I'm supposed to do with "Very curious bandwagon vote." Yes that indeed happened?
This explanation makes absolutely no sense. Just because 'person is town' doesn't mean that you follow them onto wagons. This tells me that Vaimes is scum, and either A)realizes that his scumbuddy Eco is under fire or B)just going along for the ride on an what he sees as an easy vote.
I can see town here, if I kinda squint?
So now, let's get back to Iso. How is it that you missed all of this in your efforts here?
Reality is that you just wanted to paint me as scum, rather than logically assess the situation. But why? What do you have to gain here?
My best conclusion is that the scum team is Iso, Vaimes, Eco. Iso has decided that Eco is going down, and is just trying to salvage the situation by getting attention away from his other scumbuddy and onto myself/GJ instead.
I'm struggling with the mindset here. So he thinks Vaimes is scum, and he's blasting Iso for not realizing all the things he realized, and concludes that Iso is scum trying to paint Cyan. I'm kind of rolling that around in my brain, like "I think Vaimes is scum, Iso is attacking me and not Vaimes, he must be scum with Vaimes." It's... kinda clunky.
I can believe this is just super low engagement town, but I can't townread him. IIRC Cyan was like everyone's top town D1 in SG-1; he felt after people with the same conviction, but he pivoted and evolved.
@Cyan: So I'm magically part of the scum team, but you haven't actually given any explanation of why or even hinted at a scum read of me until now? This is just an incredibly obvious attempt to join the bandwagon and force my mislynch through. Vote Cyan
I'm at L-2. Still. If Chris comes in and continues to vote me, I'll claim.
Right. It makes all of the sense in the world for me to pass on your wagon initially, and then join it later when I'm fully under the microscope, and that wagon was clearly going ahead anyway. Nice try.
I'm just doing what Iso has been telling me to for years now. Find a scum team that makes sense as a unit. You, Vaimes, Iso makes complete sense. Blame your scumbuddies for bussing you if you want to be mad at someone.
I just want to say that if Cyan/Eco are w/w here that is a frankly hilarious interaction.
Because it DOES make sense... if he's scum trying to get that sweet sweet townread.
@Newcomb: I'm disappointed that you ran out of steam right as I finally posted something of substance. I was really curious what you would say about it.
I guess it's easily fakeable but that feels pretty genuine and I know when I'm scum that is not ever something that I think to express.
Vaimes is just brazenly lying here, to try and not actually have to address me. There is virtually no chance that he actually thought that I would vote him, based on his interactions with you, a person I have never seen before. Especially when I hadn't even posted yet.
Hm. This feels... Eh, really conflicted, I'll come back to this one.
Yeah I get what you're saying. It's kind of a janky read, but my take on Cyan is that he's taken some time off, and is maybe a little rusty, and trying to shake off the cobwebs. It's small yeah. But that *sigh* kinda feels town? Like... if he's scum, god that's just like the saddest short story ever.
Actually feeling marginally better about Cyan after that? Wouldn't call it a townread, exactly. But I wouldn't be blown away to see him flip town here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You expect masons in a game this size along with the other power role(s) that have already tipped their hand(s)?
You're smart enough to pick up the same vibes that I am. So why were/are you still pushing the case against that guy, in spite of that vibe?
Get. On. My. Level.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well you're wrong, but if you show your work how you got there I'd be interested in it clearing you maybe.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Pretty sure I'd still rather kick the stool out from under you than stand up there with you.
Right, let's ignore the elephant in the room.
First post and subsequent interactions/lack thereof with Az in the beginning.
Come at me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How does it feel to be this wrong about basically everything? I'm curious.
Like, is it such a mystery that I've had cruise control on all game with a Mason read on you and Chris, and you and Seppel opening the game by voting scumEco into oblivion, and then GJ and Cyan stepping into the rake minefield immediately after?
This game was solved before post #100.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso's right lol.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
It feels weird, but I can't really figure out if I think it's more likely to come from Town!Cyan or Scum!Cyan.
No, Iso, I don't mean you, you've already made your thoughts clear and they won't change, ever, barring flips.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
BY THE WAY dear Iso, my Vaimes read is pretty on point tbqh ;x.
Like I am constantly am the one having to defend meta but really the only defense for Vaimes so far has been meta. Kind of a weird role reversal.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Honest question, Iso. How many times have you nailed all three scum 100% correctly within the first day in your last ten games?
Follow-up question. Whether you were right or wrong, do you think you carried yourself gracefully throughout?
If you need a votecount, ask me for one and I will stop whatever I'm doing and assist.
This votecount may have errors by the way. Let me know if it does.
Vote Count 1.07
[4] Vaimes - Cyan, Gentleman Johnny, Sir Chris, Seppel
[4] Cyan - mallorean_thug, tomsloger, Vaimes, Iso
[1] Voxxicus - Ecophagy
[1] Iso - Azrael
[1] Gentleman Johnny - Newcomb
Not Voting: Voxxicus
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is on Monday, December 12th.
Oh, that's interesting. I completely missed that Tom tried to vote for Eco as well! Without any explanation, either. Then unvoted immediately, when he saw the vote-count. Interesting...I thought that Tom was simply ignoring Eco, but he actually tried to take him out.
Vox/iso/tom...?
Tom "*nods*" when GJ points out how alarming the speed of the wagon is! Despite having just attempted to join the ultra-fast bandwagon! *raises a big hairy spider eyebrow*
Tom, what was your Eco stance?
I hate both these wagons. Cyan's not making enough posts to be read accurately, he's little better than a lurker lynch in his current state. Vaimes is town, being voted for an attitude that rubs people the wrong way.
Vote Tom
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Scumtell!
ZDS's Normal: I nailed all 3 scum to the wall on Day 1, and while I missed the Traitor, I didn't need to lynch him to win.
Blackout Mafia: I caught not_a_gimmick when the Rhand wagon was too late to save, and then I decided that we needed to lynch Killjoy and DoT to win. The scum team was not_a_gimmick and DoT.
Mind Screw: I didn't pay attention to this game because when I replaced in it felt like everyone that was posting actively was scum, which was oddly accurate.
Twinborn: I replaced in to this game and nabbed 2 of the 3 scum but wasn't able to put in the effort necessary to convince everyone we should be lynching them and ended up doubting my own reads at the end, which cost us the game (along with a couple of other factors).
Stargate: I was an SK and slaughtered the entire scum team on Day 1, and Newcomb had to gambit/lie to save his team and get me off their backs, which ended up in a lynch on me. It didn't help that I was already under scrutiny for my insane (but accurate) theories on the scumteam. But I did have the entire team pegged D1.
2015 Invitational: I struggled a bit in this game and early on I decided that Proph and Chris were scum but I was never going to catch Wheat.
True Name Mafia: I named 2 of the scum and the Neutral as the scum team on Day 1, but I also was able to name literally every single player's True Name on Day 1, so I think that counts for something.
The Wall Mafia: I named the scum team on Day 1 but nobody listened to me so we lost.
XKCD Mafia: I think I named the scum team on Day 2? Either that, or towards the end of Day 1. I came under scrutiny, myself, and even got lynched, but I was absolutely correct.
Celestial Mafia: I said, "Let's solve Killjoy and AI and I can name the scum team." So we did, and I did. On Day 2.
So let's break it down:
ZDS: Caught all scum D1
Blackout: Implemented game-winning plan before N1
Mind Screw: Everyone was scum
Twinborn: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1
Stargate: Caught all scum D1
Invitational: Caught 2 of 3 scum D1, but then I think I got distracted
True Name Mafia: Caught 2 of 3 scum and a Neutral D1
The Wall Mafia: Caught all scum D1
XKCD Mafia: Caught all scum either at end of D1 or somewhere in D2
Celestial Mafia: Caught all scum D2
As for grace and poise, it really depends on the game. Some games, I was a rockstar. Others, I had to beat people over the head with my worldview. This is looking like it's going to have to be the latter, as much as the early game made me feel like it was going to be the former. I'm sorry if I'm being a dick, but I'm thoroughly annoyed that we've gotten to this point.
-
@Voxx: I've only played a few Micros between then and now. Why?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've had certainty on scum reads before this early, but entire teams is just something I have trouble wrapping my head around.
Like you set off every alarm bell that you just /can't/ be that sure, that soon, and it feels fake.
It's countered somewhat by the fact that I don't have town reads on any of the three you're calling the scum team (though I think you could absolutely be wrong about 1-2 of them, but right about the others), in a vaccuum.
Why did you make this post, Seppel?
Like. Talk me through the exact thought process that you had when you started typing it.
But it's okay, once one of them flips, the trail of scum dominoes (scuminoes?) will start to topple, because, "Wait a minute - if Iso was right about this one, what about the others?"
In Stargate, when I killed Chris on N1, we hellmurdered tom the next Day straight out the gate and nobody batted an eye. Newcomb and Nacho panicked because they knew they were next if my furious momentum carried on, and they had to dig their feet in REALLY hard for even Newcomb not to get lynched on D3. So, yeah - it'll kinda be like that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Voxx I'm just really mixed about you right now.
On the one hand, I agree with almost all of what you said.
On the other hand, I feel like I've already said almost all of those things.
I kinda... don't think you'd play this as scum by kind of clumsily trying to pocket me by just broad-view copying my read on the gamestate. Except... it just seems so conveniently reasonable that your view of it so closely matches mine. And there's really just so little in your post here that strikes me as hitting that critical Insight Level.
Ehhhh.
Yeah I still think you're town. Sorta. I guess I'm more like I'll be vaguely disappointed if you're scum because it just wasn't that exciting to catch you.
Do you want me to go dig up the quotes, or do you not even want to pretend to care?
I encourage everyone to read it.
The thing that jumps out at me is the lack of trying to figure anything out. There's no attempt to figure out the alignment of the people he's calling scum, he's just calling them scum. There's no attempt to figure out the alignment of people he hasn't mentioned. It's just. Hard for me to parse, because it's strictly. 'This happened. They are scum'.
The last post feels significant to me somehow in terms of tone and mindset.
I just can't quite figure out /how/ it's significant, but I think there's something to it - Cyan just backing off with a 'Sigh...fair enough' feels weird, and kind of a disconnect from the brusque confidence he displayed in previous posts.
He hasn't had many posts, but he's functionally ignored 75% of the game, and idk.
I want Cyan to post more, and focus on people who aren't Vaimes. Because reading him is difficult through the lens of 'I think Vaimes is town, and Cyan has done pretty much nothing but tunnel Vaimes with unwavering confidence, and it's hard to tell if he's town that's wrong, or scum pushing a mislynch'.
I'm not sure I believe that you really believe this; but assuming it's true, now that Chris has said you're wrong, does your view of the gamestate you know what nevermind you're just going to say it's Eco/GJ/Cyan again.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think you kind of wanted me to be scum, because I'm not being as high energy as I have been in some games as town. Give me a flip and you'll see more analysis and insight, probably. Everything is just squishy and I'm shrugging at it and going 'I dunno lol'.
I thrive off getting a large group of concrete town reads and narrowing the gamestate down and pinning scum in a box - but the problem with this playerlist, especially on day one, is that I'm reluctant to just call people town without reservations. Like. I don't think you can fake the nuance you had in your huge post, and I don't think you'd express the sentiment you just did about it not being exciting to catch me (if scum), as scum, because you'd know I'm not scum.
But like. Vaimes is my second strongest town read and it's kind of a squishy meta thing where 'He has nuance I wouldn't expect him to have, and he kind of dug in and responded to pressure instead of running to hide in scumchat, so he's probably town' rather than 'Vaimes is lock town, moving down the list'.
I just am having trouble getting town reads and it's hard to articulate why. Part of it is so many people displaying extreme confidence that contrasts so much with the squishy nature of my reads that I have trouble fathoming it being genuine, I think.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
More seriously, it'd depend how genuine your thought process were when you were proven to be wrong, I think.
Like, I can absolutely see you, as scum, tying 1-2 town to a buddy you buss with this absolute confidence, then going 'Hm, the last one is being tricky', and trying to lead town on a merry goose chase to find the last scum (that's actually you), because.... that's kind of how I tend to play scum.
Still think you're wrong about Vaimes, and trying to attribute aspects to his play that might fit a standard player but don't fit him at all times.
If you had mod confirmation of Vaimes being town, how does your world view change?
(I am not at mod confirmation levels of certainty on Vaimes, I just want people to have to fight for a lynch that I disagree with, since more informative all around).
You know, Iso, reading this list, it's like. It seems to be kind of a thing with you.
If you're town here, and you've nailed the scumteam, then you've, A) gotten some correct reads, B) gotten mildly scumread in the process, and C) failed to convince anybody. So even if you're right you're failed at two of the three pillars of being town.
It's like the logic you use to get to where you're going doesn't just jump to conclusions, it takes a jetpack there. And there's no consideration of alternate worlds, paranoia, musing things through if you're wrong here but right here, what that would mean. You just... have a theory, and are pushing it. And when people try to engage you on it, you keep saying "get on my level," or variations thereof. You keep asking us to trust you, but you've failed to foster an environment of trust and cooperation.
I don't really know what to do with that.
Let's say you're right and that's exactly the scumteam and we chain lynch them. That would feel like a pretty hollow victory to me. It would kinda feel like you just divined the role randomization, had that info the whole time, and kind of lazily / perfunctorily pushed the world without ever explaining it in a way that made sense to the rest of us. Which, yeah. Would be a win I guess, and good on ya, but man. I wouldn't count it as one of the most fun games I've ever played.
I know it's annoying to you to rehash/revisit stuff you feel like you've sufficiently covered, but could you give me like your best 1-2 sentences on why you think each one of those three is the team, a sentence on how they're linked, and then when I engage with you saying "okay but what if the way you said this happened, this other thing actually happened", not just brush me off with "there's no use pretending we live in some other world," and actually talk about why you think one narrative is more likely than the other?
This is in no way meant as an attack against your playstyle; it obviously works well enough for you. But this is a team game, man.
Talk with me about Cyan, maybe. I linked his ISO a few posts up above, mind reading through it and giving thoughts?
Eco/GJ/Cyan
this hasn't changed in like 300+ posts so can we stop making me repeat this plzktx
Oh, I've absolutely done this before, and it was hilarious and fun. But...what's the benefit to busing 1-2 of my buddies so early, here? I've more than proven that lately, I'm far more of a scum team player than I used to be when I started playing Mafia. Do you disagree with my logic from earlier on regarding this matter, at least as it pertains to Eco?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like, do you legitimately think there's no world possible where only 1-2 of those 3 are scum, and Mal and Tom or something are in there? (Just naming names of people who haven't had major presence and could be MIA scum or hiding-behind-shtick scum)
I can't speak to the rest of the games you mentioned, but yeah, Mind Screw didn't go so hot, and the last invitational, you're glossing a bit on what really happened in that game. Naming a couple of the scum in one post and then shifting your reads around certainly doesn't count as catching the scum. But granting that you're not fudging it on the other eight, that still means that you're only catching all of the scum on D1 in 3/10 games, which were games which presumably did not have a playerbase of this magnitude, aside from the invitational, which was a game in which a number of us felt your primary impact was exposing the town's power roles, mostly because your pride carried you away.
*level look* Right this moment, I can't say it feels we've progressed very far from that experience, though I think Chris certainly shouldn't have asked you what your reasoning was, either. Our breadcrumbs weren't meant to be that hard to find, but trumpeting about the identity of the town's masons publicly on D1 is a death sentence for us, and something you should know better than to do.
At any rate, I can understand a little better where your confidence is coming from, but it's not as if you're the only player in the game capable of doing that. And I would suggest that a much more effective way of doing it is not to attempt to "bludgeon" people into following you by insulting them, but to lead with grace, maturity, and self-control. It's not only a far more effective persuasive technique, but it's a much more sportsmanlike way of handling yourself, and makes the game far more enjoyable for all concerned.
No need to be annoyed by my suspecting you. It's practically a tradition, Iso.
I mean I can do that, if you like.
You don't find Vaimes' appeal to authority a little bit weird for him? I mean I'll be blunt this isn't my first game with Vaimes, he isn't some complete mystery to me, the fact that he is being painted as this OFF THE WALL PLAYER who the RULES DON'T APPLY TO and I'll be honest: I think this is people assigning more importance to themselves than needed. Dude's just scum and people are doing that thing they do that let's me win scum games. Stop it and kill Vaimes <_<.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
No, I agree with a lot of his reads. I'm voting GJ; I think Cyanslot could be scum although I'm currently reading the ISO you linked, don't really expect that to change.
I just don't really grok how he got to them, and why his reads haven't evolved or developed much nuance in like 300 posts.
I don't find it unthinkable that he believes this dude who he doesn't know particularly well is going to have an easier time reading him correctly (when apparently, from his perspetive, said person might NOT be reading him right at all) than two players who he greatly respects and who know him well.
I can see exactly how that post happens from a town Vaimes.
As to attitude, there were a number of attacks against him, maybe not from you, IDK, that were along the lines of: "if he were town, he should be doing X, or he should have done Y," where x and y are things that don't come naturally for his player-type. And on top of that, there's a number of things that I see as pretty high quality town tells from him. IDK what level to assess his town tell faking skills at, but his mindset isn't reading terribly defensive or evasive or lazy in a scum manner, or any of the other charges I've seen against him.
His long post looking at Vaimes feels kind IIoA-y. Like I dunno what I'm supposed to do with "Very curious bandwagon vote." Yes that indeed happened?
I can see town here, if I kinda squint?
I'm struggling with the mindset here. So he thinks Vaimes is scum, and he's blasting Iso for not realizing all the things he realized, and concludes that Iso is scum trying to paint Cyan. I'm kind of rolling that around in my brain, like "I think Vaimes is scum, Iso is attacking me and not Vaimes, he must be scum with Vaimes." It's... kinda clunky.
I can believe this is just super low engagement town, but I can't townread him. IIRC Cyan was like everyone's top town D1 in SG-1; he felt after people with the same conviction, but he pivoted and evolved.
I just want to say that if Cyan/Eco are w/w here that is a frankly hilarious interaction.
Because it DOES make sense... if he's scum trying to get that sweet sweet townread.
I guess it's easily fakeable but that feels pretty genuine and I know when I'm scum that is not ever something that I think to express.
Hm. This feels... Eh, really conflicted, I'll come back to this one.
Yeah I get what you're saying. It's kind of a janky read, but my take on Cyan is that he's taken some time off, and is maybe a little rusty, and trying to shake off the cobwebs. It's small yeah. But that *sigh* kinda feels town? Like... if he's scum, god that's just like the saddest short story ever.
Actually feeling marginally better about Cyan after that? Wouldn't call it a townread, exactly. But I wouldn't be blown away to see him flip town here.
I wish I was a vig.