MVPS: Cythare's an easy pick for the mafia. He managed to use that fairy dust and duct tape to eke it out all the way to the endgame, and there were an awful lot of spectators wondering whether he might not make it stick at the end. Fantastic retconning throughout.
The town, I felt, was outstanding in this game. The mafia didn't have any neutral help this game, but they had a lot of powerful mechanics working in their favor, and the town didn't have all that much margin of error once WF started machine-gunning everything in sight. Double-edged sword, since WF was firing into the POE for the most part, and hard to fault the town for that as they simply had to choose between which scum they wanted to kill first, but it did cut down on the number of lynches they had to work with substantially - they had to go 4/7 to win. And they did.
There were a ton of strong townies who took part in that. Proph, who nailed Iso and most of the rest of the scum team without even being in the main thread. Tom and DV, who led the town throughout most of the game, blocked a kill, and had fantastically accurate reads on the scum throughout. And Axel, who broke out a gigantic dose of truth at the end to help bring the last lynch home. Well done. I'd give honorable mentions to Axel and Proph, and Co-MVPs to DV and Tom. Very impressive work.
It was a pleasure to watch this, I was on the edge of my seat quite a bit throughout, and I'm very happy that it seems to have been generally well-received. You made it fun, and memorable. Thanks for playing, guys.
As a pure spectator to the game tom and DV made this fame fabulously entertaining with their cryptic chatting and midgame leadership. As I picked the game up well after it had started I was completely fool by Cythare and when I finally got access to the spec chat 24ish hours ago I very incorrectly announced that I thought Axel was scum... So yeah good thing I wasn't actually playing.
Was an awesome game to read, props to Az for the very cool setup!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I might just have to retire on this one though. At least for a while. I clearly don't have the time anymore.
I feel embarrassed to have missed the deadline on N5 when the game could have just been over. Somewhat vindicated by choosing not to shoot N6.
I have enjoyed playing with most of you guys.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I didn't actually plan to claim neutral until Meg asked if I was. I was planning to just kill Meg N4 instead of Tom, but this line seemed more fun, if not arguably the worse percentage play, so I opted to go for it. No regrets.
I forgot that I had an unblockable kill, but Bur's and D_V's deaths made it largely irrelevant.
I wanted to post all of my chats, but I can't find my wireless mouse, and multi-quoting ~300 PMs is going to take too long, so I'll paste that in tomorrow morning.
Hey D_V. Wanted to get some extra chatting going. Curious where you stand on Tom after recent posts - will follow up with more to chat about as things develop.
If you see this and are able to respond before twilight ends: If you don't get the additional empowerment (since you said you needed 5 on D1), should I still move forward with motivating you? I don't want to waste the empowerment if you won't be able to make use of it.
I have a question for you if you see this that will be at the end of this info dump - trying to figure out if it's worth asking for empowerment toNight because of another ability of mine. You can pass this info along to Tom too if you want. In addition to the 2 empowerment motivate, I can also:
3 - Redirect an ability of someone that I've initiated a chat with.
5 - Gain a Daykill the next day that I can use on someone that I've initiated a chat with.
I can also chat with an extra person for each time a townie is killed or lynched, so I've initiated with Megiddo (who I'm 2-waying with), yourself, and TIM. I currently have one extra chat available that I've saved because I'm not sure what my best approach is any more, and then, when you presumably flip town, I'll have another.
I gained an ability that granted me 1 empowerment last Night and also got 2 other empowerment, so I could theoretically daykill tomorrow with 2 empowerment toDay unless there's another target you think is better for my motivate. My choice will potentially change depending on the lynch flip and (obviously) if I can get empowerment, but I'll give you some coded options below:
a) Daykill tomorrow.
b) Motivate Tom.
c) Motivate TIM.
d) Motivate someone else.
e) Redirect...someone?
For A/D/E, if you want to specify your preference, add a second letter as below:
a) Axelrod
b) Seppel
c) shadowlancerx
d) tomsloger
e) Manders
f) Wildfire
g) Anaklusmos
h) GJ
i) Cyan
Also, tom is extra confirmed town because you now know that I'm the redirector unless there are two. I'd tell him myself but want to make sure I don't mess up my vig tomorrow if given the empowerment.
Mostly reaching out to you for mechanical reasons. You're solidly town and my role has some mechanical things related to one-way chats. Other than you, I've reached out to Megiddo and D_V.
I'd initiated a one-way chat with TheIceMan, so I'm just setting this up since you've replaced in for him. For reference, the only thing I ended up PMing him was:
Hey,
Mostly reaching out to you for mechanical reasons. You're solidly town and my role has some mechanical things related to one-way chats. Other than you, I've reached out to Megiddo and D_V.
-----------
I don't really have much else to PM you about at the moment, but I'll follow up as things come up.
Not sure if you also got a PM from Azrael, but he posted in Meg/my chat saying that quoting other PMs is forbidden in PM chains. Meg said that he is not going to c&p your messages to him and I also won't, but will get the full message through without it.
I understand that you want to maintain maximum message integrity, but it can still be done.
Oh, also, re:last scum. I told Meg that I'm spending this afternoon reviewing everyone except DoTA (since if it's DoTA, it'll become painfully clear when Day starts). I had locked onto you due to you doing very little all game and then locking onto my neutral claim, but now that we're this far along, I need to review yourself, Meg, and Tammy in full. I'll follow up with both you and Meg later today.
Sending this a bit later than originally intended - was out playing Legacy and my phone died. Anyways, Meg asked me to give you a rundown of our PM chain. If I miss any p's in this rundown, it's because that key is on the fritz.
After I reached out to him D1, I gave him my full role (minus my neutral alignment and current empowerment score).
During N1, I asked him to query proph on his Iso scum read since he didn't say where it was coming from - specifically if it was related to the constant catchup, his reaction to Bur, or something else (or more than 1). I thought that Bur's flip made Manders look worse and that I was stuck on her early posts being terrible, and was concerned because otherwise I had a bunch of middling reads. My thoughts on the Bur lynch I shared with him were that Manders, Iso, and Anak looked bad, and that D_V's vote looked terrible but I thought it was NAI, and then told him I was connecting with D_V. He then connected back with me.
D2, we discussed how Wildfire felt different, where I noted that he was fishing and smearing Tordeck whose actions were NAI while also casting WIFOM. I wanted to pursue him, Anak and Tom, but felt that Tom and Anak couldn't be scum together. Neither of us had experience with scumtom. I also shared my list with him, which was the same as the one I osted. We discussed Manders defensiveness about RL and Meg noted that was +scum. I shared how I liked TIM's post breaking down the Bur wagon. We discussed hoing WF would shoot to roll things along, and he didn't like D_V's push for TS lists. Meg asked me why I wasn't farming empowers, and I told him that I'd connected with D_V and TIM (did not mention the WF connection).
We didn't talk N2.
D3, I discussed getting 3 empowerment (1 being the ability I'd actually gotten N1, and the other 2 being the mystery empowerment I never figured out) and that I'd motivated D_V. He wanted me to shoot you when I got to 5 empowerment after we lynch Wildfire and I agreed that WF was the clear lynch for the Day. I questioned why you over Manders and clarified the "magical friend" code D_V was talking about, who preferred Manders over you. Meg was fine with this. I stated that I didn't really want to vig you at the time, and was between Wildfire and Manders. I shared that I could daykill rivately, then reiterated that both GJ and Wildfire looked scummy. Later in the day, he asked if I wanted his empowers and who I'd shoot with it, and I told him you or Manders, since I already had 5 empowerment and he was thinking very far ahead (the D3 lynch, the NK, my D4 vig, the D4 lynch, and the N4 NK). In a world where Meg is scum, this would be one of my red flags. I also stated that I could use his empowers for non-killing things, and he didn't engage on that. I also then told Seppel all of my abilities. He asked if I was playing my scumgame, which I admitted that I was because my towngame ends u getting me lynched (referring to not engaging as much and leaning on using my role).
N3, we discussed GJ's fli, which Meg said he was mildly surrised about. We talked about doing more interaction analysis and he offered me his empowerment again. He seemed to be coming around to TownWF, so I asked him why. His reasoning was that Sudden Death use was questionable and some "small gut things". I did interactions for GJ but he didn't engage until D4.
D4, after comaring our analyses, Meg came to a group to look into of: Anak, you, Cyan, me, Shadow (who had died by then), GJ (who he left in for some reason), and WF. I waffled between vigging you and Anak and ultimately shot Anak. Meg confirmed that he didn't give me his empowerment and then asked if I could shoot again, and I confirmed that I couldn't. He dumped all the vote counts into the chain, then didn't do much with them.
N4, he asked about you again and then asked if I was neutral. I said you were likely town since I was neutral and explained my win con and who I needed to connect with still. I came clean about the Wildfire chat/redirect that we discussed at length yesterDay. He asked me if I left when I finished connecting. He got nervous about my claim because it required town deaths and that I'd potentially end the game with everyone else losing. I said that me wanting town deaths deended on how the Night shook out. If you hit the last scum N4, I would lose. If you and the last scum both hit outside tom/cyan/you/Manders, then I'd need one mislynch to win. If either your shot or the NK fell in that grou, I didn't need a mislynch to complete my connections. If I was shot, then it also wouldn't matter. I reiterated that if one of the kills was in the above group, it didn't really matter since I'd finish connecting, so he really needed to trust me. This is a decent point in favor of townMeg, since if he was really that worried, he could have just killed me to remove the risk of me winning before he could. He then asked me to give you the 0 ability, since I said that I couldn't decide between you and DoTA. He did some more interactions and concluded Cyan was the last scum, which turned out to not be true. I showed some hesitancy on that front since Cyan had a clear opportunity to bus Wildfire but instead dug in and said he'd fli town, especially after it was out in the open that there were 3 killing roles.
We didn't talk at all during D5 until the end of the day when I asked him about my plan that I rpoposed. I stated that I didn't want him to empower you since that would just result in me dying, as I assumed you'd just shoot me given how the Day went. We then chatted a bit more and he convinced me that Manders' claim shifting back and forth and votecount analysis meant that she should probably be the lynch for the day. The Iso/Manders chat was also a factor for him. He wanted to empower you because he assumed you having a 2-empower kill was too strong for scum. I asked how he felt about not empowering you or having me empowered to defend myself, and he agreed with the line where empowering anyone not named DoTA was too risky. He reiterated that he doesn't think you or me can be scum, but then walked it back a bit by admittingthat he might be overevaluating Wildfire's ability. He seemed to show hesitancy or fence-sitting by saying that Manders had been asking for 5 empowers consistently, then circled back to wanting to lynch her after the mess of her claiming, which I agreed to.
That brings us to toNight, where he disclosed your connection to him and asked me to ferry his thoughts back to you. We haven't said much that I haven't assed along other than him admitting that he fed me false info because he was worried that I wouldn't give you all the info he was sharing.
So this is the other option. I'm able to open an additional channel each time a townie dies (Meg and maybe Tom can confirm this, but I'd rather not broadcast it to the thread), so I can ferry info to you as needed. I'm happy to coordinate with you in a two-way if you still have your chat available.
I currently have one left after this channel, having set up chats with Megiddo, D_V, TheIceMan (now zomgarcwind), and you.
Cyan's statement about Wildfire being the Vig clicked something for me - my 5 empowerment ability is that I gain a daykill the next Day. Do we think that there can be 2 Vigs in this game? It's not outside the realm of possibility, but between this and his questionable play toDay, I'm becoming more convinced that there aren't. I don't really want to claim this in the thread, since I found out from Azrael that I can submit my daykill privately and can therefore potentially not have to one-for-one myself with the scum. Maybe I just daykill him tomorrow if he isn't the lynch and we go from there if I can't get enough support without claiming?
Anyways, I think you're pretty lock town? You're keeping up and your responses to Proph seem town, so yeah. I clearly need to flesh out my reads but would also love input on how to play my role, as they're somewhat intertwined further down the road. Here's what I've got:
0 - Initiate a one-way chat with another player or spectator. Can do this at any time, but only once for each town player that's died. Doesn't stop me from using another ability concurrently.
2 - Motivate a non-kill ability from someone I've initiated a one-way chat with.
3 - Redirect an ability of someone I've initiated a one-way chat with.
5 - Gain a daykill the next Day that can be used to kill any player that I've initiated a one-way chat with.
It's got some play for initiating chats with both town and scum, so I need to flesh out dem reads overNight. I get to look forward to all of the PMs.
Can you ask Proph if his read on Iso is because Iso spent the whole day reviewing the past, his reaction to Bur, or something else (or a combination)? I can see the read based on the first thing, and am curious where Proph's head is at.
So, I feel that this flip makes Manders look worse. I get that others think that she's town, but I'm still stuck on a lot of her early posts being terrible.
Otherwise, I'm concerned because I do have a lot of middling reads. I don't know if it's me and I'm just not picking up on things or if this playerbase is just generally eh this time around. Having not taken the time to review yet, I'm up to 4 people in my town pile, 4 people in my scum/leaning scum pile, and then just this mess of people that idk about.
That said, a few of them are people that have been around a while that I just don't have much knowledge on. Like Cyan. Or Tordeck.
Of the Bur lynch, the votes I don't like are:
Anak - this is largely because of my existing scum read on him, but part of his vote appears based on claim, which is garbage in a game where Azrael's stated that roles might be randomized.
Iso - Is basing his vote on the past stuff and just wagoning. This feels opportunistic to me. Also his last post felt artificial.
Manders - While I don't disagree with the decision to hammer if she's town, the pontificating in her hammer post just felt unnecessary and came across like an attempt to blunt any blowback hidden in a chiding.
D_V's vote looks pretty *****ty, but since it's D_V, I'm pretty sure it's NAI.
This is pretty kindergarten-level analysis, but it's a start for where to look tomorrow.
I guess I could also use my last thing to connnect with Seppel so that I can dayvig him down the road if need be, but that may not be worth it over just motivating D_V (assuming I ever get any empowerment).
Wildfire definitely feels different. The first part of his post is fishing, the second part is a smear attempt rather than actually questioning Tordeck (who I understand does this either way so motivation is important), and the third part is wifom. I'm fine pursuing him today while also following Anak and Tom.
Still don't think Anak and Tom can be scum together but idk who the scum there is since they're both playing pretty questionably.
I mean, isn't that where Manders Busy comes from? I don't want to ***** on her circumstances, but yeah.
Nothing changed on my T/S list, and I don't see what you think I might be missing. There was the GJ/Wildfire back & forth and then some posts from Anak/Axelrod/Manders that didn't really change my opinion on any of them.
I like #1200 a lot. It looks at Bur's wagon and surrounding events in much greater detail than Anak did, and I think that his critical review of things comes across well. I didn't like how he portrayed my #1016, but that's a minor point in the context of an overall otherwise good post. I don't agree with his priorities, but do see where he's coming from with GJ. I don't like tom's followup vote.
Yeah. It doesn't help that part of the drag is because the random order had D_V next and he was just like "can't play for 2 days, have finals". So here we are.
A very slow, convoluted vig, yes. I have a night ability that grants me a daykill the next day that requires 5 empowerment, of which I have none, and can only use it on people I'm chatting with.
No, I wanted to set up a couple townreads first, and have somewhat mixed feelings about connecting with scumreads, even if I can theoretically vig them down the road. With Tordeck's flip, I can set up another one, but I would need to start campaigning for a lot more empowerment to vig, and am not sure if I can make that happen.
Also, I gained empowerment last Night, which was kinda cool. 1 looks like it's from an ability that I gained that lets me give another player 1 Empowerment and then I lose the ability and that player gains that ability. Idk where the other 2 came from. If I can get 2 more Empowerment, I think I may activate my dayvig ability for tomorrow? I still have an extra comm channel that I can open up so that I can vig whomever.
Unless you think I should use another ability, but w/o D_V, I'm not sure who I'd want to motivate and idk who I'd redirect, but we can also figure this out post-D_V's flip and the lynch if you're around and able to feedback.
You'd prefer an Axelrod shot over a Manders shot? That's what I was "discussing" with D_V via convoluted code. I'm the "magical friend" he keeps responding to, in case you hadn't come to that conclusion on your own.
What do you think is the likelihood that GJ and Wildfire aren't both scum? Maybe the right play is just to vig the one of those two tomorrow that we don't lynch today and go from there? If that ends the game, then we're set, and if not, we can go from there?
I know you really want to vig Axelrod, which I'm also open to, but the above two are probably the best bets. If we lynch GJ, I can also try to vig Wildfire before he can Quick Draw, but that seems kinda risky.
Cyan's statement about Wildfire being the Vig clicked something for me - given that I can vig, what is the likelihood that there are two town killing roles?
Also I heard back from Azrael about how my daykill ability works to make sure I didn't misunderstand anything and I can apparently submit my kill in private. o.O
Idk but I figure GJ and Wildfire both look pretty scummy. If there are just 3 and they're both scum, great! If they're not both scum or the game is still going, then we can review.
D_V (and Tom) know all of my abilities. Seppel knows that I can daykill but I don't think I told him the rest of what I can do other than the extra chats.
I'd probably shoot Axelrod or Manders, but it depends on today's flip, the NK, my vig tomorrow, tomorrow's lynch, and tomorrow night's NK. That's a lot of flips to take into account.
If I have your empowerment, I could also leverage a motivate or redirect if those end up looking like better options after tomorrow's lynch.
My read on Manders has actually tempered a bit of late, though, mostly due to interactions with GJ. Axelrod would probably get the nod if I had to vig one of the two of them right now.
How do you feel about Seppel's plan? Also, is it worth linking up with Tom so that I can also share info with him? The risk being that if a townie doesn't die tonight then I can only vig you, Seppel, Tom, or TIM, none of whom I want to vig.
No, it was the same one - I just hadn't seen your thoughts on it anywhere and wanted to ask.
I'll also give the full answer to your question here and then only part of it in the main thread. Whenever I try to have more of a public presence in a game, I always end up scumread and mislynched, so I figured I'd lean more heavily on my role and work in the background, especially since my multiple connections allows me to do so more easily than usual.
I also did the same interaction analysis you did. Want to chat about it? over Night we can do part 2, which is TCM's posts, and look for any obvious overlaps!
wildfire... mostly small gut things. like him activating SUDDEN DEATH is ?? for me. And on review his posts after his second shot were not as bad as I expected. Overall not great though.
Yeah, I guess that his use of Sudden Death is kinda questionable. I can see potentially using it as either alignment if he thought he was the lynch, but idk.
I also didn't see your message about the empowerment. It would let me use a second shot for D5, since I have enough empowerment for a shot now. I think that'll potentially be useful.
I'm going to get started on the GJ interaction analysis after I get some work stuff going.
Wait, do you see how GJ interacts with/responds to/mentions others, or how others interact with/respond to/mention him? I thought I did the former in another game and was told I did it backwards, so I have been going through other people's posts for mentions and interactions with him.
Oh, I found an old discussion I had with Proph where he said he does both, but often just does the "how GJ interacts with others" to save time. So, I guess I'll do it the way I did with Iso because I'm already partway through it.
there is value in both. usually what i do is start with known scum, look at the potentials, and then do the same thing with the potentials to see if there's overlap.
Bur |-
Sir Chris ||||--------
Tordeck
D_V ||||||||||||----------------------
Iso ||||||---------
The specific posts were:
Axelrod: 1338, 1704, 2163, 2305
Manders: 1641, 1876, 2159
Anak: 2296
Wildfire: 2428
The Axelrod ones stuck out to me because he mostly avoids directly interacting with GJ and somewhat cases him but always ends up with a soft conclusion on him and doesn't commit. The last post is a bit different because he cases Wildfire, but the timing is pretty bad - he does it after momentum has decidedly shifted towards GJ.
The Manders ones are important to me because they're things that Manders calls out as important to follow up on for herself later and then she just doesn't.
Anak's post looks bad to me mostly because of the language "since I am firmly on the scum!WF train, GJ has to be town". His language choice doesn't read as him believing that Wildfire is scum and GJ is town, but that because he has to choose one to be town and one to be scum, and he's chosen Wildfire to be scum, GJ is town. The conviction isn't there.
Wildfire's post stuck out because he kinda goes away for a while and doesn't address GJ that much for a while until he finds something he seems to think is a problem, but it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of problems with GJ.
Sorry, was working on wedding thank yous, but we now know the answer to your question at least.
I think I'm just going to post what I shared above and if you want to supplement it, go for it. Also, still torn on who the right vig choice is, but I did use all my empowerment to activate my trap card daykill.
well, now that i haven't died I'll be diving into it. Dude has a lot of posts.
ANA ||||----------------
AXE |||------
CYA |||||||||||-----
CYT ||||||||----
MAN ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||--------------
TOM ||||||||||||||-------------
SEP |||||||||||||||||------------------
TIM ||||||||||||-------
WIL ||||||||||||||---------------------
D_V |||||||||||||||||||-----
BUR ||------
CHR ||||||||||||||--------
ISO |||||||||||-----
SHA ||||||||||||||----------
TOR ||-----
More scumreads. I do link most of the posts like this that I find, btw, since they are very valuable. Here he says bur-anak-wildfire-tom and then Iso/Cyan as scumteam pick.
Is that just the other half where GJ interacted? I'm reading through your thing right now and am also drafting up my post with the half I did - I'm finding links to all the posts I referenced above and typing up some questions to clarify some things.
Ok. I didn't actually do that part for Iso, though, since I didn't realize it was part of the thing, and you never shared it with me.
I also think that him grouping Iso and Cyan means that Cyan is likely town, since scum usually pair a townie with a scum person for these kinds of things?
I'm also not sure where the tom scum read came from. I don't recall him ever really explaining it, but I can look back.
So first, I asked about this because I was halfway through doing my own when you posted it. I like to do these when scum flip. It's best after two dead scum but can work with one. I suspect that Iso may know how to trick this but it also helps in a few other ways.
So here's my chart:
ANA |||—--
AXE ||||
CYA ||||-----
CYT |-
MAN |||||||------
TOM |||||||||||-----
SEP ||||||||||||-------
ANA ||||------
AXE ||-----
CYA ||||-----------
CYT |||-----
MAN |||||||||||-------------------
TOM |||||||||||||||----------------
SEP ||||||||||||||||---------
TIM ||||||||-
WIL |-----
DV ||||||||||||----
Bur
CHR |----
SHA ||||||--
TCM ||||||||----------------
TOR ||
Our counting methods were clearly different, which is fine, but our overall patterns match so that's good. The only actual outlier is Chris maybe?
So for those who don't remember what this is supposed to be showing, for my counting a | is a "major" interaction such as a quote or a vote, and a - is for a minor mention. In sum, talking to vs. talking about. The theory is that scum have a harder time interacting directly with buddies in a natural way, and thus will default to talking ABOUT them instead of talking TO them.
So, with this chart you can often catch town and scum by looking for players that the dead scum did not interact with much at all, and for players that the dead scum talked about but didn't talk to. This is not foolproof obviously (for example, hard bussing activities that involve direct arguing), but it's a good way to start looking.
Mindmelding both of our charts and being agnostic I would pick to look into a little further the following:
Anak, Axelrod, Cyan, Cythare, Shadow, TCM, Wildfire
Anak is both significantly lower than others in gross interactions and has a high proportion of mentions to direct interactions. Additionally, I think the man is scum anyway.
(brief aside, I love that TextEdit on OS X uses iCloud now. I just switched this note from my laptop to my bigger laptop instantaneously so that I can keep working it on the machine that’s better for actual work (I have an external hooked up to it).)
Yeah, I am pretty new to this, so I had some trouble drawing the line on major v minor. That said, in many cases, if a direct interaction didn't look directly related to the game or was solely mechanical, I generally demoted them, since that's something I felt scum would be comfortable doing.
Also, notably, I didn't actually read the whole thread, so if there was back and forth that didn't involve actual quoting, there's a chance I missed stuff that was actually direct interaction. I like your list of reviewees.
it is subjective. the main goal of the exercise is to actually read the scum's posts. looking for patterns helps narrow down suspects but the real meat is in the actual posts.
Like, going purely on patterns, both Bur and Tordeck should be scum, right? but they aren't. you have to use your brain.
Oh, that makes sense. I'll go back and do that...some time between now and Monday evening. I'm not sure what my availability is like this weekend to sit down at my computer and just read.
I figured you didn't empower me. It wasn't what I asked about. I didn't actually get confirmation of my ability working, I just assumed based on not having been told it didn't.
hitting anak would be good since we're just going to lazily lynch him Today and we won't get good wagon or interaction analysis out of it. if you kill him you'll force the town to think Today.
I'm not as convinced on him as Axelrod/Anak at this point. I agree that killing Anak will Force the town to be less lazy, which is always a good thing.
Remember when I said you have to do the reverse when you do the IA? Well, I did:
CYA ||||||-------
CYT |-
MAN ||||||||||||||||—----
MEG |
SEP ||||||||---
TIM ||-
TOM |||||-----
WIL ||||---
BUR |---
D_V |||------
ISO |||||-----
SHA ||-
TCM |||||||----
TOR |-----
SIL -
T/S list. These reads are… largely mysterious to me.
This is not the chart of somebody who is buddies with Iso and TCM. Reading his posts I feel like he actually tried to interact with people. He's never approached anybody like scum would. Fairly sure he's town.
Ah. So many of his posts looked scummy, but I see what you're getting at now. Worst case, we won't have him as a distraction any more and the rest of the town will have to take action instead of being lazy. Best case, he's scum and we've gotten 3 down.
Ok, so the reverse interaction analysis is where you ISO someone alive's post and then review for interactions with other living players and dead scum/town, yes?
If so, I'll dig into that today/tomorrow so that there's at least some more info for you to use even if I end up being the lynch today.
I got it in my end-of-night results PM, which told me that my ability was successful, that I'd received a new ability and that I'd gained 3 empowerment. I inferred that 1 of them was from the ability that I gained, but wasn't told where the other 2 came from. I also just confirmed with Azrael that recipients of an empowerment transfer aren't told who/where the empowerment came from.
VC 1
Bur- Iso, Cyan
Manders - Seppel, TheIceMan, Sir Chris
Tom - Anak , Axelrod
Anak - Shadow, GJ
GJ - Cythare, Tom
VC 2
GJ - Cythare, Tom, Sir Chris
Anak - Shadow, GJ, Cyan
Manders - Seppel
Bur- Iso
Tom - Anak
Axelrod- DV
Sir Chris- Axelrod
Tom- TheIceMan
VC 3
Manders - Seppel, shadow, Tom
Wildfire- Manders, Sir Chris, Tordeck
Anak - GJ, Cyan
GJ - Cythare
DV - Wildfire
Tom - Ana
Sir Chris- Axelrod
Shadowlancer - TheIceMan
VC 4
Tordeck-DV, Cyan, anak, manders, tom
Bur- GJ, shadow
Wildfire- Sir Chris, Tordeck
Manders - Seppel
Anak - GJ
Anak -Cythare
DV - Wildfire
Sir Chris- Axelrod
Shadowlancer - TheIceMan
VC 5
Bur- GJ, shadow, Seppel, Manders, Anak
Anak-Cythare, Cyan, DV
Wildfire- Sir Chris, Tordeck
Tordeck-tom
DV- Wildfire
Sir Chris- Axelrod
Shadowlancer- TheIceMan
VC 6
Bur- GJ, shadow, Anak, seppel
Anak-Cythare, Cyan, DV, manders
Wildfire- Sir Chris, Tordeck
GJ - TheIceMan, tom
DV- Wildfire
Sir Chris- Axelrod
VC 7
Bur- GJ, shadow, Anak, seppel
Tom- Wildfire, Tordeck, Cyan
Anak-Cythare, manders
GJ - TheIceMan, tom
Sir Chris- Axelrod
WF - Sir Chris
VC 8 (Bur Lynch)
Bur- GJ, shadow, Anak, seppel, Todeck, Iso, DV, Bur, Manders
Tom- Wildfire, Cyan
Anak-Cythare
GJ - TheIceMan, tom
Sir Chris- Axelrod
WF - Sir Chris
Axelrod is town, as I find it unlikely that both him and WF would be scum killing roles, especially since, as you guessed, I am neutral.
I win when I've connected with all of the living players. I can win alongside either team, but lose if I haven't completed my objectives by the time the town or scum win.
I still have to connect with:
-Axelrod
-Cyan
-Manders
-tomsloger
I have two connections that I can open, and get one additional connection every time a town member dies as previously noted.
Also I lied about when I got Wildfire's ability. I started with 3 Empowerment and redirected him to myself Night 1, gambling that I could get him to give me empowerment (I was hoping he granted permanent empowerment). I got the 0 ability that you just saw when he flipped. I still have it, since I've been busy doing other things both other Nights. Since I don't have enough empowerment to do anything else, I'm planning to pass it along, but idk who I should give it to.
Before i delve further, are there any amendments you'd like to make to this:
0 - Initiate a one-way chat with another player or spectator. Can do this at any time, but only once for each town player that's died. Doesn't stop me from using another ability concurrently.
2 - Motivate a non-kill ability from someone I've initiated a one-way chat with.
3 - Redirect an ability of someone I've initiated a one-way chat with.
5 - Gain a daykill the next Day that can be used to kill any player that I've initiated a one-way chat with.
1) redirected WF to yourself (presumably he stated he was going to use his weirdo ability? who was he originally going to target?)
2) motivated D_V
3) activated NK on Anak
1) Yes. I don't know who he was originally going to target, but it was presumably one of his scumbuddies.
2) Yes.
3) Sort of - I don't have to lock in who I'm going to kill at Night, but that's the gist of it.
oh, interesting. so you could have killed anybody Yesterday rather than Anak.
Well, you've been slippery this game, that's for sure. In case you were wondering why I was being cagey with you the entire game so far, it's because I thought you were scum since D1. And, well, here we are.
So for you to win, you need two more town deaths/ one town death within {Axelrod, Cyan, Manders, tomsloger}? You could then immediately fire up your three/four connections and win?
Do you have to survive to win or do you leave the game when you connect everybody?
Yeah, that is what I need to win numbers-wise. I have to survive, which is part of why I was being cagey - I was trying not to draw too much attention from either side.
And yes, I could have killed anyone - I thought that came up in our chatting at the time.
ok so cards on the table your claim makes me very nervous. for two reasons:
One, you currently want a thing that I don't want (town deaths). If Tom is town and gets NK'd well, it's moot, but outside of that I feel as though you'd need a mislynch to win. This isn't something that makes me want to lynch you right away, but it means that your goal would be the exact opposite of mine.
Two, I don't necessarily believe that you are a weird survivor. Your role feels like it could be more of a "win and leave" role. That would be fine. Or, it could be a "win and everybody else loses" role. This makes me nervous and makes me want to lynch you ASAP.
I thought of a small third thing, which I've now forgotten. I might remember it later.
You have been playing for the town as far as I can tell, which is good, but in the endgame I'm getting nervous.
So, given that, what's your strategy for the rest of the game?
Since I had extra chats available, I could initiate a chat and kill anyone.
Yes, I currently want town deaths. I figure that someone's dying tonight, but given that tonight's NK is likely you or tom I'm 50/50 for being fine.
I get your concern with my win condition. I don't really feel like this is something that I can do much to assuage.
My general strategy is to wait to see who dies and go from there. To speak to your first concern, the actual issue isn't necessarily that I want town deaths (since those will likely happen with the NK), but that at this juncture I'm incentivized specifically to not lynch scum tomorrow (assuming there is 1 left). If the NK is inside you/Tammy/DotA, I need the game to get to D6 so that I can accrue enough chats to win.
I'm not really sure what I should be doing tomorrow, unless I can get a proposal going for discussion and then a no-lynch tomorrow (since I'd get my 2 chats from the 2 NKs).
Oh right, I forgot about Axelrod. If he kills the last scum tonight, then it doesn't matter. If he kills a non-scum that isn't inside you/Tammy/DoTA, then I win in the morning. I don't think he'll kill you, Tammy, or DoTA, so I'm not factoring that into my decision.
Or, I meet the connect with everyone condition and then just have to survive. I guess you'll just have to trust me that I'm not going to win at the detriment of everyone else.
The above also assumes that the NK isn't one of you/Tammy/DotA/me, but I'd expect that it's likely either you or tom. If it's tom, then the above works out, and if it's you, then I'll have to hope that there's a mislynch but then this discussion also won't matter because you'll be dead.
yeah i mean, there's not much to be done to make me more confident. it's blind trust on my part. to your credit I think you've at least been trying to help out rather than just playing to win, even if you were obvscum to me.
you are also correct. a no-lynch would (probably) achieve the same goal as a mislynch for you. so that's a thing.
One more question, by proxy from a little birdie. if you were to die Tonight would that empower passing ability thing show up in your flip?
Unrelated, if you were in my position, who would you give the empowerment ability to? I'm thinking probably DoTArchon or maybe Axelrod? You and tomsloger are too high-risk for me, and Tammy has her 0 ability to fall back on. I don't want to give it to Manders or Cyan.
cyan's last scum. I just reread the entire game and it's 100% a lock. There's no other candidate that makes sense.
AXE |----------
CYA ||||||--
CYT |||||-------
MAN ||||||||||||--------
MEG |||||||---
SEP ||||||---------
TIM ||
TOM ||||||||||||||||-----------
ANA ||---
BUR |
CHR ||-
D_V ||||||||||--------
ISO ----
SHA |||||
TCM |||||||||------
TOR ||-
That Cyan row is deceptive. Wildfire didn't directly interact with the dude until, this is no joke, post 2627. Lock scum IMO. They interacted a lot in the final Day leading up to WF lynch, just like what happened with TCM.
Also, last chance, be truthful with me on the following questions:
1. Do you win and cause the rest of us to lose? Or are you actually a weird survivor role?
2. Have you claimed to be neutral to anybody other than me?
I will help you win if you are actually a survivor.
There's a decent chance that I don't need Axel dead.
1. I am actually a weird survivor role. I will not cause everyone to lose and I won't leave the game.
2. I haven't revealed my alignment to anyone else. Since all my other interactions are one-way, I've occasionally mentioned things to people that I didn't feel needed to be said in the thread, but mostly non-alignment role stuff. I figured that most other people would also not believe I was a survivor, so I didn't want to get strung up "just in case" like I have before as neutral.
Whoops, I skipped past the Cyan part. Wildfire has been weird about not interacting with his buddies until they're about to flip (or in Iso's case, still not at all).
The only thing giving me pause is Cyan continually saying he's so convinced that WF is going to flip town when he could have bussed him instead once there were 3 vigs.
What are your thoughts on my plan? I'll admit that I'm at least partially motivated by not dying, but if Manders comes out and says that I didn't motivate her, then either she's lying or I am and there are two days to do so (assuming there is no NK). It's probably unlikely that any other scum would shoot into a double-Manders activation. We can then lynch toDay and go into tomorrow with 5 alive.
This of course assumes that she shows up. Related, I'm wary of empowering Axel. Given my bigger post, this should come as no surprise to you, but if he isn't scum, using his 2 ability will accelerate the game by a day if he misses (making tomorrow Lylo instead of Mylo) if we don't lynch. If we do lynch, it isn't him, and he fires, I guess it doesn't matter to the town. It of course matters to me, since he's highly likely to just take me out.
looking at the interactions points me at:
YOU or AXELROD
looking at the vote counts points me at:
MANDERS
Tammy is probably the only one who doesn't get pointed at in some way. her ability is like, dumb? and I liked her progression today (suspicious of me when I pushed a bad argument, not latching on to anything to push a case after I explained; general paranoia). Though she is good, so IDK.
I think that Tammy being the last scum is unlikely at this point.
I'll admit that my preference to lynch Axelrod and then Tammy is largely self-serving, since I know I'm neutral and that means that to me, they're the two options and one involves me dying while the other doesn't.
I'm also curious about your question to Axel about knowingly aligning with scum, unless he's trying to imply that you might be the last scum and we're coordinating that way.
I'm also now confused about Manders' ability, but my understanding is that it removes the ability to kill, and if the Mafia can't kill, then we all win? Note that this is different from how she framed it earlier in the game, where she seemed to imply that if she managed to target the Mafia making the kill, that would result in a win for the town. I may have misread it when she said "if this makes the mafia unable to kill" to imply "if they can't kill that Night".
I'm assuming that her statement about me winning too is because this is an issue with Az's wording, which hasn't always been the clearest, but I wasn't actually sure if I'd win too until she said that.
And now I'm kinda paranoid that I won't, but at this point, there are multiple avenues where I don't win and I think this is less of an issue for me.
I guess the TLDR is that I'm fine with lynching Manders. But! I'm still going to request that you not empower Axelrod, since he's 100% going to kill me tonight. He's right that I would steer his kill away from me if I could, because it's in my best interest to live, but even with Manders' empower, I can only motivate tonight.
How do you feel about the following:
Lynch Manders
Manders empowers wherever (currently me, but we also can't necessarily expect the lynch to play ball)
You and I empower DoTA so he can IC
I don't really care about the rest of the empowerment.
I think it's reasonable to assess that in the scenario where the last scum are likely in Axel/Manders/myself, we lynch one and then don't empower either of the other two.
Otherwise I can campaign for Tammy's empowerment, and if I get hers and Manders, then Axel can be cross with me for playing to my win condition instead of just happily eating a shot to the face.
Yeah, I guess that Wildfire's ability could have been assumed to balance around the risk of him losing it instead of how it played out.
For the purposes of discussion, scum!Axel obviously wouldn't have a cheaper shot that empowered his own team. He could, however, have two shots and have been trying to save the cheaper one for later or have some extra empowerment from his buddies that he could put towards a second shot and only have to ask for 2 down the road.
I'm conflicted. I guess part of this is because if she's telling the truth, empowering her is a great idea.
That being said, she's moved her claim about a bit even today. Before, I thought we only won if the player targeted actively tried to NK, and she then made it seem like there would be a win if she just targeted the remaining scum, but then reclarified that it's only a Win if the scum shoots, otherwise it's just a "win" because the scum can't kill any more, but we still have to find him or her.
I guess the actual issue is that while I'd like for the ability to exist as-claimed, it's moved around a bit, motivating her to use it twice uses up all of her empowerment, and it's easy enough for a scum!Manders to just not kill (or a non-Manders scum to just not kill) and then we're kinda right back to Manders again?
Also, not lynching Manders today points to myself or Axel. I'm not scum, and you seem convinced enough that Axel isn't scum barring an overevaluation of Wildfire's ability (which I really don't know how to evaluate properly on a power-level scale). Which leaves us with you, who I can't see as scum, Tammy, who nothing points to, and DoTA, who should be resolving himself overnight.
Seeing as how Manders empowered Axelrod to be able to shoot tonight, would you be interested in moving your empower back to me so that I can redirect? I'd understand if the answer is "no", but figured it can't hurt to ask.
Currently, Tammy, Axel, you, and me are all empowering DoTA and he just needs the two.
First part was passed along right after I responded.
I need to reread Tammy/Axel/you this afternoon. I locked in on Axel because he hadn't actually done anything and I didn't like how he approached my claim, but I'll review all of the possibilities.
you should also tell him that I am not going to copy and paste entire messages as I am not sure if that's kosher or not. I can check with az. if he knows it's ok then that's one thing.
for context to above he wants to be quoting messages back and forth rather than relying on relay. which makes sense.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As per usual, given a little distance, I can appreciate what was going on in this game a little better.
The Mafia abilities were really strong in this game. Like, almost absurdly strong. Every single one of them was capable of doing something ridiculously busted. I think the Town had to be almost perfect at the beginning + some sub-optimal choices on the part of the Mafia for us to even be in it. The town had a lot of interesting roles too, including some information roles, but also a lot of roles that just didn't do all that much (and seriously, that Cop...) In another world I could see myself ranting about how we had no chance from the get-go.
The Town simply had to get the early lynches, and, fortunately, that is exactly what happened. Really good catches on Iso and GJ (which I had almost nothing to do with), that also had nothing to do with roles or abilities. Still, we were still losing, I think, except for what looks like WF just getting really, really greedy. Or a scum winning the Sudden Death. Or if GJ doesn't die with Empowerment still to give.
I think Az may have undervalued just how ridiculous a 1 empower day-kill was (on top of, you know, the other scum day-kill ability) and overvalued the fact that there was some non-zero chance that WF's target could kill him first. It's not too many games where the Town is going to recover from the scum getting 3 extra kills, and it could easily have been more.
Seems like Tordeck may have had the Town's strongest role. DV's was good too. A lot of the others depend on the player already having pretty good reads, or else they might also backfire. Still don't know what Seppel was doing this game, and I guess will never now. Tom was great. DV was (mostly) great. Sir Chris was actually pretty on for the little time he was in this game and I feel (a little) bad for needling him. I also feel like this should be some kind of object lesson for Manders and Tammy not to let their soft hearts get in the way of their better judgments and just lynch those "Neutral" people dead next time. Megs was good, but oh God so trolly. Drink less, man.
And, yeah, Az, you still don't know how to balance scum
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I think Az may have undervalued just how ridiculous a 1 empower day-kill was (on top of, you know, the other scum day-kill ability) and overvalued the fact that there was some non-zero chance that WF's target could kill him first. It's not too many games where the Town is going to recover from the scum getting 3 extra kills, and it could easily have been more.
And, yeah, Az, you still don't know how to balance scum
I was definitely nervous about it, but I figured being public was a huge balancing factor in its favor, not to be overlooked by concentrating solely on the raw power it provides. As a public ability, there's a few ways it can be used. One, to kill off people that the town was already wanting to kill, effectively giving the town extra vig kills (which happened a couple times). Two, to kill off people that the town would never kill, such as DV, which would result in WF's own death. And a mafia trading their own life for someone else, is never a good outcome. Three was to try a course between those two extremes, and I think that would have been the most effective way to use it. But very difficult to do, in a credible fashion.
On balance, I think a fair argument could be made that WF's role helped the town far more than it hurt. It killed off two prime suspects, and then resulted in WF trading his life for DV. Two trees cut down to help the town's POE, and one dead mafia, but only one legitimate NK target eliminated.
I'll take that trade, any day. Three for one in the town's favor.
It looks quite powerful for the scum on paper, but in practice, I think it may have played a hugely detrimental role in losing them the game, because they failed to appropriately assess how dangerous and counter-productive it was to use that ability in the way that they did.
I dunno, I think I'm going to have to disagree there. This was a game where Town lynched Scum literally four days in a row with only one mislynch (and I guess the Modkill "lynch", which ended up not really being a lynch because Cythare didn't kill that night) and still came way too close to losing. I think if Cythare had spun his lies just a little less crazily (or just held more information close to his chest), we would have won this.
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Well, there was definitely more than one mislynch. You had both Bur and MH. And possibly Tammy could count as mislynches, and Anak and Tordeck could have easily become mislynches if they weren't killed by the scum.
Giving Cyth a hidden daykill on top of that was too much though, I think. I didn't anticipate the mafia pouring every last bit of their points towards that 5-coster ability.
That could possibly have been counter-acted in turn if some of the town's power roles had got some more hookups, as there were some fairly ridiculous things the town could have accomplished, too. Might have to consider some creative ways to address that, in the future. *muses*
The town, I felt, was outstanding in this game. The mafia didn't have any neutral help this game, but they had a lot of powerful mechanics working in their favor, and the town didn't have all that much margin of error once WF started machine-gunning everything in sight. Double-edged sword, since WF was firing into the POE for the most part, and hard to fault the town for that as they simply had to choose between which scum they wanted to kill first, but it did cut down on the number of lynches they had to work with substantially - they had to go 4/7 to win. And they did.
There were a ton of strong townies who took part in that. Proph, who nailed Iso and most of the rest of the scum team without even being in the main thread. Tom and DV, who led the town throughout most of the game, blocked a kill, and had fantastically accurate reads on the scum throughout. And Axel, who broke out a gigantic dose of truth at the end to help bring the last lynch home. Well done. I'd give honorable mentions to Axel and Proph, and Co-MVPs to DV and Tom. Very impressive work.
It was a pleasure to watch this, I was on the edge of my seat quite a bit throughout, and I'm very happy that it seems to have been generally well-received. You made it fun, and memorable. Thanks for playing, guys.
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Staffsorry for flaming you axelrod! maybe think about why I did that!
No apologies for trolling in endgame though.
I had something else but I'm drunk!
It was cool that I literally didn't have a role PM! but I endgamed!
Was an awesome game to read, props to Az for the very cool setup!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thanks for the game, Az. I think.
I might just have to retire on this one though. At least for a while. I clearly don't have the time anymore.
I feel embarrassed to have missed the deadline on N5 when the game could have just been over. Somewhat vindicated by choosing not to shoot N6.
I have enjoyed playing with most of you guys.
I didn't actually plan to claim neutral until Meg asked if I was. I was planning to just kill Meg N4 instead of Tom, but this line seemed more fun, if not arguably the worse percentage play, so I opted to go for it. No regrets.
I forgot that I had an unblockable kill, but Bur's and D_V's deaths made it largely irrelevant.
I wanted to post all of my chats, but I can't find my wireless mouse, and multi-quoting ~300 PMs is going to take too long, so I'll paste that in tomorrow morning.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Shout out to me for correctly reading Axel and making sure he had the power to kill Cythare.
Seriously, Axel, bravo. Your last few days were awesome.
Peace!!
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Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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StaffIso No Thanksed this post!
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2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
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The GJ way path to no lynching:
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The Family
I just can't double wolf anymore and it shows. I feel bad for my team, and tried to take a dive after ISo so WF could get one more shot off.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The Mafia abilities were really strong in this game. Like, almost absurdly strong. Every single one of them was capable of doing something ridiculously busted. I think the Town had to be almost perfect at the beginning + some sub-optimal choices on the part of the Mafia for us to even be in it. The town had a lot of interesting roles too, including some information roles, but also a lot of roles that just didn't do all that much (and seriously, that Cop...) In another world I could see myself ranting about how we had no chance from the get-go.
The Town simply had to get the early lynches, and, fortunately, that is exactly what happened. Really good catches on Iso and GJ (which I had almost nothing to do with), that also had nothing to do with roles or abilities. Still, we were still losing, I think, except for what looks like WF just getting really, really greedy. Or a scum winning the Sudden Death. Or if GJ doesn't die with Empowerment still to give.
I think Az may have undervalued just how ridiculous a 1 empower day-kill was (on top of, you know, the other scum day-kill ability) and overvalued the fact that there was some non-zero chance that WF's target could kill him first. It's not too many games where the Town is going to recover from the scum getting 3 extra kills, and it could easily have been more.
Seems like Tordeck may have had the Town's strongest role. DV's was good too. A lot of the others depend on the player already having pretty good reads, or else they might also backfire. Still don't know what Seppel was doing this game, and I guess will never now. Tom was great. DV was (mostly) great. Sir Chris was actually pretty on for the little time he was in this game and I feel (a little) bad for needling him. I also feel like this should be some kind of object lesson for Manders and Tammy not to let their soft hearts get in the way of their better judgments and just lynch those "Neutral" people dead next time.
And, yeah, Az, you still don't know how to balance scum
I was definitely nervous about it, but I figured being public was a huge balancing factor in its favor, not to be overlooked by concentrating solely on the raw power it provides. As a public ability, there's a few ways it can be used. One, to kill off people that the town was already wanting to kill, effectively giving the town extra vig kills (which happened a couple times). Two, to kill off people that the town would never kill, such as DV, which would result in WF's own death. And a mafia trading their own life for someone else, is never a good outcome. Three was to try a course between those two extremes, and I think that would have been the most effective way to use it. But very difficult to do, in a credible fashion.
On balance, I think a fair argument could be made that WF's role helped the town far more than it hurt. It killed off two prime suspects, and then resulted in WF trading his life for DV. Two trees cut down to help the town's POE, and one dead mafia, but only one legitimate NK target eliminated.
I'll take that trade, any day. Three for one in the town's favor.
It looks quite powerful for the scum on paper, but in practice, I think it may have played a hugely detrimental role in losing them the game, because they failed to appropriately assess how dangerous and counter-productive it was to use that ability in the way that they did.
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Giving Cyth a hidden daykill on top of that was too much though, I think. I didn't anticipate the mafia pouring every last bit of their points towards that 5-coster ability.
That could possibly have been counter-acted in turn if some of the town's power roles had got some more hookups, as there were some fairly ridiculous things the town could have accomplished, too. Might have to consider some creative ways to address that, in the future. *muses*