Did you ever say why you felt Anak was town? I know you say that you lean heavily on gut, but I can't recall you saying anything substantive on your read of him.
[quote from="TheIceMan »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/763629-disinheritance-mafia-stage-one?comment=794"]What's hollow about it? The top two wagons right now are both people I have been pushing pretty consistently with the only thing of debate being who I want to push more. I am now your top scum read. Unless you think I have been shoving Anak just for the fun of it, why are joining a wagon that was being pushed primarily by Cyan and myself? It's not hollow, your posts aren't adding up.
Let's take apart this post.
You have not been consistently pushing Bur. Bur was null (for lack of information) through #458. Then, as soon as Manders starts to put (bad/illogical) pressure on him/her, you make the weak vote in #594, because Bur "needs more pressure." And that somehow puts him/her into the scum pile somehow, as evidenced by #604? Even though Bur has made no posts in the intervening time, and he/she was previously null for lack of info? Right. After a bunch of intervening nonsense, you next mention Bur's name in #694, and it's simply lumping him/her in with Wildfire as possible scum. If you really hate the Tordeck wagon, and are going to appeal to Manders' scumread on Bur, why not actually advocate for lynching him/her? You know, Bur, one of the two "people I have been pushing pretty consistently with the only thing of debate being who I want to push more"? (Hint: it's because Wildfire is a safe vote.)
Then we come to Anak. Let's look back. In #720 you're not on the wagon but say you'd be OK with it. Then, all the way back to your initial vote on Anak in #139 (a very weak vote it must be said, as it's basically a straight /barn of Cyan), you've consistently lumped Anak into the scum pile with a bunch of fellow lurkers (e.g. #272, #458). You've never spent any significant time justifying your opinion and you've never tried to push your case. It's actually quite amazing that you've been reading Anak as scum the entire game but have made zero attempt justify that read (apart from the initial vote) and haven't pushed the case. Like at all.
So, I still Anak is scum. Probably GJ's scumbuddy. But this post is a goldmine and makes me absolutely certain that GJ is scum. Unvote. Vote GJ.
Seriously, take a look at this everyone (as well as my previous comments above re: GJ's last ~200 posts).
Full disclosure when hoping fo GJ to combust I just didn't have anyone to vote and was too lazy to unvote. 'next level' Chris strikes again.
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Also, I'd like to point out that it's incredibly scummy that GJ supposedly thinks Anak is slam-dunk scum (or else why would he be calling him scum the entire game), and then doesn't like that I'm voting for Anak instead of him. Come on. Obvious scum.
Also, I'd like to point out that it's incredibly scummy that GJ supposedly thinks Anak is slam-dunk scum (or else why would he be calling him scum the entire game), and then doesn't like that I'm voting for Anak instead of him. Come on. Obvious scum.
[quote from="TheIceMan »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/763629-disinheritance-mafia-stage-one?comment=794"]What's hollow about it? The top two wagons right now are both people I have been pushing pretty consistently with the only thing of debate being who I want to push more. I am now your top scum read. Unless you think I have been shoving Anak just for the fun of it, why are joining a wagon that was being pushed primarily by Cyan and myself? It's not hollow, your posts aren't adding up.
Let's take apart this post.
You have not been consistently pushing Bur. Bur was null (for lack of information) through #458. Then, as soon as Manders starts to put (bad/illogical) pressure on him/her, you make the weak vote in #594, because Bur "needs more pressure." And that somehow puts him/her into the scum pile somehow, as evidenced by #604? Even though Bur has made no posts in the intervening time, and he/she was previously null for lack of info? Right. After a bunch of intervening nonsense, you next mention Bur's name in #694, and it's simply lumping him/her in with Wildfire as possible scum. If you really hate the Tordeck wagon, and are going to appeal to Manders' scumread on Bur, why not actually advocate for lynching him/her? You know, Bur, one of the two "people I have been pushing pretty consistently with the only thing of debate being who I want to push more"? (Hint: it's because Wildfire is a safe vote.)
Then we come to Anak. Let's look back. In #720 you're not on the wagon but say you'd be OK with it. Then, all the way back to your initial vote on Anak in #139 (a very weak vote it must be said, as it's basically a straight /barn of Cyan), you've consistently lumped Anak into the scum pile with a bunch of fellow lurkers (e.g. #272, #458). You've never spent any significant time justifying your opinion and you've never tried to push your case. It's actually quite amazing that you've been reading Anak as scum the entire game but have made zero attempt justify that read (apart from the initial vote) and haven't pushed the case. Like at all.
So, I still Anak is scum. Probably GJ's scumbuddy. But this post is a goldmine and makes me absolutely certain that GJ is scum. Unvote. Vote GJ.
Seriously, take a look at this everyone (as well as my previous comments above re: GJ's last ~200 posts).
</blockquote>
I have spent plenty of time explaining my point, and trying to figure out the other players. Of the null pile, most of that pile has been posting better. Cythare has been leaning town, Cyan has been slight leaning town, and Iso is leaning scum.
@Axelrod: I opted to explain the null reads because my read on Manders felt like the most relevant thing to share given that I didn't like her early posts but was encouraged by her interaction with shadowlancerx. After that, I figured "well, might as well explain the rest of these". The scum reads seemed self-explanatory, and I didn't have the time to do a full breakdown of my reads but wanted to get back in the game.
ITS TIME FOR A "HOW MUCH EMPOWERMENT DO YOU NEED?" MASSCLAIM.
DV: 5?
Chris: 2
GJ: 2
Shadow: 2
Manders: 5
Cythare: "2 or 4"
Seppel: Theoretically none, but the less I have, the less inclined I am to help the town. Hence my empowerment deals.
If we're nearing the end of the day, it makes sense to share this info with others. Ideally, I'd like 4, but I can make do with 2. I recognize that realistically, I'll get 0.
Hey Cythare, totally random question: who is the scummiest person who has empowerments iyo?
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Quote from Anak »
@GJ I mean, an RVS post is an RVS post, though I'm beginning to think you will always suspect me. So it goes, there will always be our Cops wolf chat.
@silver Yeah I mean, that's fair. In my defense it was a lot of fun.
Tom looks to be very Tom at this point, what does scum!Tom do differently than town!Tom here DV?
Hmm,
I didn't suspect you in AA, at least not after day 0. I was scum in Drunk Trackers, wrong in Shia Lebouf, and correct in Cops. I don't tink I am always suspecting you. I think you do seem to get legitmately uncomfortable dealing with me, and I don't like your reaction to Cyan. Vote Anak.
Chris, Chris, Chris, I have been waiting a while to (hopefully) work together with you for a while, ever since the AA bonding. Here is where I am at.
I'll be honest, I am going against my read on Axel. My initial dislike of his Manders read was primarily coming from the fact that two of his points had nothing to do with her posts. Especially the part about Az not likely giving her a scum role. It just rubbed me the wrong way, like he was looking for an excuse to town read (or pocket Manders). The more I have thought about it though, I think you are correct about arbitrarily giving town reads (even if I disagree that wolves do this all the time). I think what made me agree that it isn't a point against him is that the read is so early. Saying Mander's tone is town, and that changing that tune 100+ posts in wouldn't really be suspicious. His read though wouldn't in theory change as the day goes on, because it wouldn't be all based on her posts. It could still be a pocket play, but it was a blatantly obvious one. All of that said, he kind of disappeared so I don't know what to make of that.
As far as Manders goes, the way she came across towards Axel struck me as a feeling that she was being pocketed. Her back and forth with TIM also feels like she doesn't understand why she is being read that way in a genuine way, and it does feel like TIM is stretching a bit, even if Manders could explain things more.
My only reaction to seppel's post was something along the lines of "Another ******* neutral...." >:(
DV also feels town, so we are just in opposite land right now. Tom I am not sure of. I never understood the point of calling something a "pressure vote".
@GJ To be fair in AA I basically claimed D1 without giving you a chance to suspect me. But your point still stands,
About Cyans vote, I mean come on it was weaksauce. He votes and calls it for realsies, like even if his vote is serious it has no backing on it except that it came from Cyan I guess? It was a weak vote looking for a reaction, I called it as I saw it.
Seppels claim is weird, his role does nothing unless he gets a bunch of empowerment's. Even if he does, all he does is switch passives, which seems null. But he has a lot of ability info, so feels fake but not scum motivated? Still trying to figure that one out.
Holiday makes it a bit tough, trying to keep up as best I can on mobile
Then why would you dismiss my read of you as being "LolGJ. Always scumreading little ol me?"
@Manders: I have an issue with it, but I assume you want tom to answer first.
No, go right ahead. I doubt you'll influence his response.
I think that list looks too easy, and there has to be at least one wolf that is actively posting. Or, we could just be in a "lolswolf" moment. I am also curious why Anak didn't make the list. As far as the inactives go, he is the one I am lean wolfing on.
Fun Fact: To my point 2, the reason I didn't include Bur in that list was because I forgot Bur was in this game. Add Bur to that list.
For the record TIm, I HAVE been pushing Anak. I challenged him in the beginning, he disappeared, he struck my nerves, pops in every now and then, and disappears. So if you are going to misrep me going light into Anak, think ******* again.
Trigger Happy. Apart from the lack of his ridiculous posting restriction, reminds me of Cythare's posting style. I want to see him flesh some things about, but his posts feel genuine on tone.
You have a buddy on me, so maybe you can start putting work out.
Let me paraphrase GJ here: "I mentioned Anak two or three times over the course of 700 posts, so I could continue to vaguely justify putting him top of my scum pile."
Let me paraphrase GJ here: "I mentioned Anak two or three times over the course of 700 posts, so I could continue to vaguely justify putting him top of my scum pile."
I didn't include the ones you mentioned, and he isn't posting that often. Yeah, I don't mention him that often because he hasn't posted that often. And the posts he does mention, I comment on or push him.
What's your point TIM? Yes Anak is my strongest scum read right now. Bur is up there as well. Bur claimed, I don't think the claim saves him, I don't want more claims today.
Let me paraphrase GJ here: "I mentioned Anak two or three times over the course of 700 posts, so I could continue to vaguely justify putting him top of my scum pile."
I didn't include the ones you mentioned, and he isn't posting that often. Yeah, I don't mention him that often because he hasn't posted that often. And the posts he does mention, I comment on or push him.
What's your point TIM? Yes Anak is my strongest scum read right now. Bur is up there as well. Bur claimed, I don't think the claim saves him, I don't want more claims today.
Bur? The person who you didn't even have a read on until you decided that he "needed more pressure"? The person who suddenly became scummy as soon as you pressure voted him/her? The person who you chose to vote for Wildfire instead of quite recently? Just keep digging dude.
Dang it. @ TIM I meant to tell you, at the first post I quoted of yours...so do it.
You should, at the very least, read my two recent longer posts and the relevant sections regarding GJ. Also, I'm curious to know whether Axel or D_V needs my empowerment.
Let me paraphrase GJ here: "I mentioned Anak two or three times over the course of 700 posts, so I could continue to vaguely justify putting him top of my scum pile."
I didn't include the ones you mentioned, and he isn't posting that often. Yeah, I don't mention him that often because he hasn't posted that often. And the posts he does mention, I comment on or push him.
What's your point TIM? Yes Anak is my strongest scum read right now. Bur is up there as well. Bur claimed, I don't think the claim saves him, I don't want more claims today.
Bur? The person who you didn't even have a read on until you decided that he "needed more pressure"? The person who suddenly became scummy as soon as you pressure voted him/her? The person who you chose to vote for Wildfire instead of quite recently? Just keep digging dude.
There is nothing to dig. You are barking up the wrong tree and misrepping left and right. Pressure vote, nothing happens, gets to claim, makes a bleh claim and sounds resigned to hi faith instead of fighting. Yeah, I'm ok with this right now. And on the chance I am wrong about Anak, I don't see a reason to push another stone. This is nothing ******* new.
DV- Tom, Manders, Cyan, Seppel, Shadow
Seppel- Sir Chris, DV
Axelrod- GJ
Sir Chris- Iso, Cythare
So those who still need to submit empowerment are:
Axelrod
Tordeck
Wildfire393
Bur
Anaklusmos
TheIceMan
thought:
scum is much more worried about their empowerment than we are
we just want to empower people we think are town and can use it
theyre worried about it being part of catching them
i would say this doesnt apply to axel and TIM, as especially deliberate players regardless of alignment
but...
tordeck-wildfire-bur-anak
thats sort of a thing
not that it wasnt fairly likely there were scum in those 4 anyway (and im townreading like 1.5 of them).
quoting your post i noticed your bolded underscores
curse does havewhich works great and changes colors easily
I'm debating how useful it is to be letting the scum know which of us can actually do things based on how much Empower we have. Like, they can already see who has the Empower votes, so in that sense there's no secret, but saying specifically at what Empower we gain abilities seems maybe too much info?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I would give my Empower vote to Manders or TIM right now. Possibly I could get on this DV train given I'm leaning Town and he's making loud noises about how good it is. Of course, there's the all eggs in one basket problem there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Dang it. @ TIM I meant to tell you, at the first post I quoted of yours...so do it.
You should, at the very least, read my two recent longer posts and the relevant sections regarding GJ. Also, I'm curious to know whether Axel or D_V needs my empowerment.
I read your posts. Don't think I didn't. I'm not interested in pursuing Johnny Today, but he is not Town in my eyes at all.
I'm debating how useful it is to be letting the scum know which of us can actually do things based on how much Empower we have. Like, they can already see who has the Empower votes, so in that sense there's no secret, but saying specifically at what Empower we gain abilities seems maybe too much info?
EH I think it's more useful to the Town to know which players need the most empowerment than for the Scum to know which of us have expensive empowerments (though it seems we all do, to some extent, have at least one ability that's relatively expensive.)
Not sure how much I like empowering Manders given that I'm pretty torn on her. I think there's a significantly higher chance that she has abilities that do stuff, but I just don't know if she's town.
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Let me paraphrase GJ here: "I mentioned Anak two or three times over the course of 700 posts, so I could continue to vaguely justify putting him top of my scum pile."
I didn't include the ones you mentioned, and he isn't posting that often. Yeah, I don't mention him that often because he hasn't posted that often. And the posts he does mention, I comment on or push him.
What's your point TIM? Yes Anak is my strongest scum read right now. Bur is up there as well. Bur claimed, I don't think the claim saves him, I don't want more claims today.
Okay, this feels weird. Explain to me GJ, if you think Anak is scum, why do you care about Anak claiming? If he's scum, his claim is obviously either lie or won't be useful to town.
So, explain what's going on your mind when you made this post.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Empower TheIceMan. Towniest person I see at the moment.
Also if anyone wants to see me dead, sending me an empowerment would aid that goal. I have use for a single empowerment point that can result in my death, and if you give it to me I promise to use it.
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Empower TheIceMan. Towniest person I see at the moment.
Also if anyone wants to see me dead, sending me an empowerment would aid that goal. I have use for a single empowerment point that can result in my death, and if you give it to me I promise to use it.
Empower TheIceMan. Towniest person I see at the moment.
Also if anyone wants to see me dead, sending me an empowerment would aid that goal. I have use for a single empowerment point that can result in my death, and if you give it to me I promise to use it.
I know you said you do something at 5, Manders, but you're like a million votes away from that and I feel like getting TIM up to 2 would be a more productive use of this atm.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I know you said you do something at 5, Manders, but you're like a million votes away from that and I feel like getting TIM up to 2 would be a more productive use of this atm.
Empowering me is fine basically because it keeps it out of the hands of potential scum. It could be very useful later too, depends how the game plays out.
I like where your head is at TIM, and am comfortable with giving you another vote. Critically reading back through the game and making the points you did reeks as town to me, considering how the day was going as scum you could have just let it play out instead of stirring the pot going at GJ like that.
I could use 1 or 2 empower but I dont expect any of y'all to do so.
And unless it is a requirement to do so I wont be empowering anyone toDay. I have a handful of scum reads but no one is town enough for me to willing to support them at this stage.
I like where your head is at TIM, and am comfortable with giving you another vote. Critically reading back through the game and making the points you did reeks as town to me, considering how the day was going as scum you could have just let it play out instead of stirring the pot going at GJ like that.
I could use 1 or 2 empower but I dont expect any of y'all to do so.
And unless it is a requirement to do so I wont be empowering anyone toDay. I have a handful of scum reads but no one is town enough for me to willing to support them at this stage.
You know, if you drew names out of a hat the odds would favor you hitting a Townie. Are you really saying you're so unsure of everyone in the entire game that you won't support anyone?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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it isnt much
i still believe it
Feel free to point out the alleged lie.
I may or may not reserve my pointing and laughing at you until post-game.
Anak is literally saying the same thing as Wildfire.
They are both so disconnected from the game they think that throwing dirt at me is going to get somewhere.
You have not been consistently pushing Bur. Bur was null (for lack of information) through #458. Then, as soon as Manders starts to put (bad/illogical) pressure on him/her, you make the weak vote in #594, because Bur "needs more pressure." And that somehow puts him/her into the scum pile somehow, as evidenced by #604? Even though Bur has made no posts in the intervening time, and he/she was previously null for lack of info? Right. After a bunch of intervening nonsense, you next mention Bur's name in #694, and it's simply lumping him/her in with Wildfire as possible scum. If you really hate the Tordeck wagon, and are going to appeal to Manders' scumread on Bur, why not actually advocate for lynching him/her? You know, Bur, one of the two "people I have been pushing pretty consistently with the only thing of debate being who I want to push more"? (Hint: it's because Wildfire is a safe vote.)
Then we come to Anak. Let's look back. In #720 you're not on the wagon but say you'd be OK with it. Then, all the way back to your initial vote on Anak in #139 (a very weak vote it must be said, as it's basically a straight /barn of Cyan), you've consistently lumped Anak into the scum pile with a bunch of fellow lurkers (e.g. #272, #458). You've never spent any significant time justifying your opinion and you've never tried to push your case. It's actually quite amazing that you've been reading Anak as scum the entire game but have made zero attempt justify that read (apart from the initial vote) and haven't pushed the case. Like at all.
So, I still Anak is scum. Probably GJ's scumbuddy. But this post is a goldmine and makes me absolutely certain that GJ is scum. Unvote. Vote GJ.
Seriously, take a look at this everyone (as well as my previous comments above re: GJ's last ~200 posts).
that seems like something townanak would do
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(didnt take much)
vote johnny
I have spent plenty of time explaining my point, and trying to figure out the other players. Of the null pile, most of that pile has been posting better. Cythare has been leaning town, Cyan has been slight leaning town, and Iso is leaning scum.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Empower Sir Chris
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For the record TIm, I HAVE been pushing Anak. I challenged him in the beginning, he disappeared, he struck my nerves, pops in every now and then, and disappears. So if you are going to misrep me going light into Anak, think ******* again.
Popping out.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Trigger Happy. Apart from the lack of his ridiculous posting restriction, reminds me of Cythare's posting style. I want to see him flesh some things about, but his posts feel genuine on tone.
You have a buddy on me, so maybe you can start putting work out.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I didn't include the ones you mentioned, and he isn't posting that often. Yeah, I don't mention him that often because he hasn't posted that often. And the posts he does mention, I comment on or push him.
What's your point TIM? Yes Anak is my strongest scum read right now. Bur is up there as well. Bur claimed, I don't think the claim saves him, I don't want more claims today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
DV- Tom, Manders, Cyan, Seppel, Shadow
Seppel- Sir Chris, DV
Axelrod- GJ
Sir Chris- Iso, Cythare
So those who still need to submit empowerment are:
Axelrod
Tordeck
Wildfire393
Bur
Anaklusmos
TheIceMan
_____________________________________________________________
I thought so, but wasn't sure.
I'm not sure and am not re-reading him Today.
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There is nothing to dig. You are barking up the wrong tree and misrepping left and right. Pressure vote, nothing happens, gets to claim, makes a bleh claim and sounds resigned to hi faith instead of fighting. Yeah, I'm ok with this right now. And on the chance I am wrong about Anak, I don't see a reason to push another stone. This is nothing ******* new.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
scum is much more worried about their empowerment than we are
we just want to empower people we think are town and can use it
theyre worried about it being part of catching them
i would say this doesnt apply to axel and TIM, as especially deliberate players regardless of alignment
but...
tordeck-wildfire-bur-anak
thats sort of a thing
not that it wasnt fairly likely there were scum in those 4 anyway (and im townreading like 1.5 of them).
curse does have
which works great and changes colors easily
give me more to defend you with please
i dont want to shrug while you get mislynched
EH I think it's more useful to the Town to know which players need the most empowerment than for the Scum to know which of us have expensive empowerments (though it seems we all do, to some extent, have at least one ability that's relatively expensive.)
You should totally give your point to me, though.
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Not sure how much I like empowering Manders given that I'm pretty torn on her. I think there's a significantly higher chance that she has abilities that do stuff, but I just don't know if she's town.
Actually, I have a pretty solid case for townGJ drummed up in the wings.
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Okay, this feels weird. Explain to me GJ, if you think Anak is scum, why do you care about Anak claiming? If he's scum, his claim is obviously either lie or won't be useful to town.
So, explain what's going on your mind when you made this post.
Also if anyone wants to see me dead, sending me an empowerment would aid that goal. I have use for a single empowerment point that can result in my death, and if you give it to me I promise to use it.
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empower wildfire
sounds great
But you're not counterclaiming the Bodygaurd?
I know you said you do something at 5, Manders, but you're like a million votes away from that and I feel like getting TIM up to 2 would be a more productive use of this atm.
I am not. My ability is different than his and takes place during the day.
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no need to give me any
Not that I expect to get any but two empowerments would be awesome. I'm a pretty gimped version of myself without them.
Empower TIM
Bur- GJ, shadow, Anak, seppel
Anak-Cythare, Cyan, DV, manders
Wildfire- Sir Chris, Tordeck
GJ - TheIceMan, tom
DV- Wildfire
Sir Chris- Axelrod
9 to lynch
Official Empowerment Count:
DV- Manders, Cyan, Seppel, Shadow
Seppel- Sir Chris, DV
Axelrod- GJ, Theiceman
Sir Chris- Iso, Cythare
TheIceMan-Wildfire, Axelrod
Wildfire- Tom
I could use 1 or 2 empower but I dont expect any of y'all to do so.
And unless it is a requirement to do so I wont be empowering anyone toDay. I have a handful of scum reads but no one is town enough for me to willing to support them at this stage.
The Family
i seem to be having the opposite problem.
but ok. lets play ball.
why am i scum?
You know, if you drew names out of a hat the odds would favor you hitting a Townie. Are you really saying you're so unsure of everyone in the entire game that you won't support anyone?