hey silver, how would you reevaluate if shock is town (he is)?
If he flips town? I'd start with wagon analysis because I don't think his town flip tells me much on its own. Hopefully his flip in conjunction with who was staying off his wagon (or who got on it) without actively reading him as town or scum could tell me something new.
I'd have to reread all of my town leans, though.
Because I'm not confident enough to say there's 3 scum in (you/seppel/ag/zen).
Two seems plausible but not three.
Essentially the middle players could shift left or right in their respective tier as I wasn't feeling greatly confident on exact placement of them to that point, and to be frank I'm not much more satisfied having caught up. The only one I feel solid on is shadow.
Quote from shadowlancerx »
What are your thoughts on Silver (replaced in for Dota)?
Gradually shifted to soft-null. DoTA didn't ping me too hard and I liked Silver's Tom case before I started reading the rest of the thread, but its kind of gone up and down from there.
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
I really don't want to lynch shock. Not that there isn't reason... but that my only other really strong opinion is AG, and literally neither of them is here.
I'm not sure on shockwave. His behavior could go either way here, he gets lynched early and often, mostly because of it. I could quote town games of his where I was sure he was scum, and scum games where I was equally sure.
As a policy Lynch? I could get behind it. As silver mentioned, I've been BEGGING him to do something for a few days. Anything. Because I can't believe in a game with 4 replacements already, we could have this much lurking. Which brings me to AG, who I had bad feelings on right out of the gate, who hasn't responded in a satisfactory way, and who's equally gone. If I'm settling for "best of whats around" lynch at the end of day, AG or Shockwave are fine.
Tom, I literally don't know what to think. The Silver push has me stumped. Literally I don't understand the logic there. But, that on it's own? Dunno. It's not a hard case. Same with Silver. I don't remember having much of an impression of DoTA, but Silver's introduced enough wine that I'm not certain one way or another. In short, he can live until tomorrow.
I will second what was said above. If you're the vig, there are some great targets. Shadow/Silver/Tom/AG, maybe even Vaimes/Seppel/Me if you want to get fancy. There is a lot of town in that pile, but it's all good info.
Unless you think you're in no danger of a nightkill tonight, and then you could wait I guess.
The person I'm having the most trouble reconciling (and that's saying something with Seppel/Tom in the mix), is Zomg. What are the thoughts here. I haven't seen much from him, just him checking in to nudge us in a direction and then gone again.
I feel like we're at an impasse here. I really do think a town!shock would be here, at least a little bit.
@Zen: If you think I'm scum, who do you think my buddies are?
@Zom: you mentioned building a case on Tom, and not having specific posts to reference, how exactly would that case differ from Silver's? Do you dislike his case so far? What's your read on Shock right now (can't remember if you've said already).
@AG 2 Questions back for you:
1. What did you think about my other posts? Agree/Disagree?
2. Can you post a Will Lynch/Won't Lynch list?
Thanks.
Not a big fan of your initial posts. Your later posts feel better.
Won't lynch: zomg, Mindreaver, rodemy, silver, (starting to lean towards adding shadow on here)
Will lynch: anyone else (rereading to try and solidify some scum reads)
shadow was being heavily scumread, and since I was scumreading DoTA, I decided to see what shadow's interactions with him were like.
What has Silver done that's so profoundly towny? If you had to point to three posts that clearly show his alignment, please highlight them and explain.
I don't think I'm getting out of being a lynch candidate today, but not going to go quietly.
That would be hurting my wincon.
I don't think I have the wim to read, but ask questions preferably with quotes/links when needed... Going to hammer out the past midnight hours here to get something done.
shadow was being heavily scumread, and since I was scumreading DoTA, I decided to see what shadow's interactions with him were like.
What has Silver done that's so profoundly towny? If you had to point to three posts that clearly show his alignment, please highlight them and explain.
@AG - Thanks for answering, I have the same question for you but for ZOMG instead of Silver.
Pretty much what Tom said, but to expand on it. You didn't ask the mod if Hunt is OK, you asked if he quit for game related reasons, and reading through Hunt's posts, especially the Hunt/Shadow exchange, there's nothing that would warrant a rage quit. Looks like you're looking for reasons to discredit Hunt/push Mind.
Vote: Zomgarcwind
If either Zomg or Shadow flip scum I'm sitting on the other until they go down too.
Looking back, I think if I had to pick only one post to divine DoTA's alignment, it would be this one.
It just. Doesn't look like town to me at all. There are too many issues with it.
1. It's the second case of DoTA parroting someone else's thoughts instead of just presenting his own.
2. He is somehow looking at zomg making guesses as to why Hunt was replaced, and says, "Town wouldn't ask if a player who was suddenly replaced ragequit!" There is no connection there between the two (being scum and asking why someone replaced out, with "ragequit?" being a scummy guess).
3. DoTA is cherrypicking zomg's quote here.
4. He accuses zomg of using the replace-out to opportunistically push on the Huntslot, even though zomg had literally never mentioned Hunt and, in fact, was pushing the same scumread as him.
5. Small thing, but when DoTA says "if zomg or shadow are scum, I'm permavoting the other," that makes me think he listed one buddy there on the off-chance that if his buddy got lynched, he could try and score a mislynch on the other.
I think if DoTA were town, he wouldn't have even made this post. He'd have simply given his thoughts and voted accordingly. There was no real reason to let tom answer first (except to piggyback off of tom's answer!); it was more or less an OOG question, no one was trying to scumhunt tom with that question, so the Garcia rule doesn't even apply.
I understand that people think Silver is a great player and all. I do too! But that doesn't mean playing well = town. And him playing well doesn't mean DoTA's posts never existed.
I strongly feel that this slot is scum, and if so, I'd want to spend all of Day 2 making shadow squirm. I'd be ~okay with lynching shadow instead, but the possible connection to the DoTAslot is fuzzier in that order.
I need specific reasons as to why people are unwilling to lynch Silver. Something better than "he looks/sounds town!" What has he done that you believe is absolutely beyond his scumrange?
I'm ~mostly ignoring frustration/AtE posts, since no one likes getting scumread. Of course, there are some exceptions where the person having a meltdown is very clearly one alignment over the other, but no one has made any of those posts in this game, I think (and shouldn't).
I feel like there was another question aimed at me earlier but I cant find it, if its important tag me and quote it please so i can answer it
I asked for an updated case of Shadow, since the original one was posted early on the game and I didn't see any update.
@Shockwave - Can you make a Will Lynch/Won't Lynch list?
@Vaimes - Take for example posts #569 and #589, if Silver is mafia well he is trying to solve the game more than other players this game. I don't know what his scumrange is, I just think his posts come from a town motivation, and it seems very hard to fake all those posts as mafia. Why are you willing to risk losing a potentially strong town player in Day 1 (that is being read as town by several other people)?
Do you think scum don't know how to get townread? Do you think we should leave ALL strong players alone on Day 1? Who would we lynch, then? What if all the "weak" players are town? RNG is blind.
Do you think scum don't know how to get townread? Do you think we should leave ALL strong players alone on Day 1? Who would we lynch, then? What if all the "weak" players are town? RNG is blind.
I think its risky for mafia to post so much since they would be scared to get caught in a slip, plus they won't want to reveal their mafiamates in case they get lynched. To me it seems like Silver is a town player who just says what he feels. Can he be a mafia faking it? Sure, but I think the chances for that are less likely and thats not how I'm reading his posts.
Someone who is not posting is a more dangerous player because he will coast to the end (Mafia won't kill him), and will be used by mafia as a shield to hide themselves and be their safe net to mislynch when the time comes. Those players not only doesn't help solve the game but also can cause to lose it. I would rather get rid of those players Day 1 Where there is less data anyway (no flips). Yes, my opinion on lurkers/deepmafia will probably change later on the game when we have more info.
What is wrong about the Shockwave wagon?
Any specific votes that looks fishy to you?
Shock's wagon is too easy.
It's either a bus or an easy mislynch.
Like.
I mean this in the least offensive way possible, but this is such a dumb statement. I have a hard time fathoming town!Silver coming to this conclusion on page ******* thirteen.
Because yeah no ***** Shock is an easy wagon, all the time, every game, regardless of his alignment. Everyone and their ancestors knows that.
Do you think scum don't know how to get townread? Do you think we should leave ALL strong players alone on Day 1? Who would we lynch, then? What if all the "weak" players are town? RNG is blind.
I think its risky for mafia to post so much since they would be scared to get caught in a slip, plus they won't want to reveal their mafiamates in case they get lynched. To me it seems like Silver is a town player who just says what he feels. Can he be a mafia faking it? Sure, but I think the chances for that are less likely and thats not how I'm reading his posts.
Someone who is not posting is a more dangerous player because he will coast to the end (Mafia won't kill him), and will be used by mafia as a shield to hide themselves and be their safe net to mislynch when the time comes. Those players not only doesn't help solve the game but also can cause to lose it. I would rather get rid of those players Day 1 Where there is less data anyway (no flips). Yes, my opinion on lurkers/deepmafia will probably change later on the game when we have more info.
What is RNG?
1. You'll change your tune once you've played with scum!tom.
2. It is precisely /because/ we have no data on Day 1 that we need a better lynch than a lurker.
3. Random Number Generator. Alignments are completely randomized, so hypothesizing, for example, that "all the strong players can't be mafia!" or what-have-you isn't really a productive argument. Especially when the line between strong and weak is blurry and subjective.
I don't have a known scum range.
There's nothing to compare to, unless you want to look at turbos where I froze for 18 minutes and got lynched D1.
In which case I'm not even in the same galaxy, never mind inside of it.
And this game isn't going to help you in that regard because I'm not scum.
But yes, such is life.
I knew replacing in that DoTA was being scumread and I'd have my work cut out for me either way.
I don't blame anyone for scumreading this slot.
But the way tom has gone about pushing me makes me think it's him.
I don't really have much more to say on the subject.
As for shock, the case isn't slam dunk.
He could be town though I don't think it's likely.
But I know I am, and we're the leading wagons.
Vaimes, I don't have as much experience as you do.
I started playing six months ago and this is my fourth game that didn't have 18 minutes day phases.
So whatever you think is mouth-breathingly obvious probably isn't to me.
I'm just saying what I think.
I don't think I've concealed any of my thought process at all.
If you think I'm scummy independently,
or even just want to pretend it's in my non-existent scum range so you can scumread the slot for what DoTA did,
Well, there's not much I can do about it.
C'est la vie.
Do you think scum don't know how to get townread? Do you think we should leave ALL strong players alone on Day 1? Who would we lynch, then? What if all the "weak" players are town? RNG is blind.
I think its risky for mafia to post so much since they would be scared to get caught in a slip, plus they won't want to reveal their mafiamates in case they get lynched. To me it seems like Silver is a town player who just says what he feels. Can he be a mafia faking it? Sure, but I think the chances for that are less likely and thats not how I'm reading his posts.
Someone who is not posting is a more dangerous player because he will coast to the end (Mafia won't kill him), and will be used by mafia as a shield to hide themselves and be their safe net to mislynch when the time comes. Those players not only doesn't help solve the game but also can cause to lose it. I would rather get rid of those players Day 1 Where there is less data anyway (no flips). Yes, my opinion on lurkers/deepmafia will probably change later on the game when we have more info.
What is RNG?
1. You'll change your tune once you've played with scum!tom.
2. It is precisely /because/ we have no data on Day 1 that we need a better lynch than a lurker.
3. Random Number Generator. Alignments are completely randomized, so hypothesizing, for example, that "all the strong players can't be mafia!" or what-have-you isn't really a productive argument. Especially when the line between strong and weak is blurry and subjective.
Lol I might.
If there was someone with high volume of posts that I would suspect as mafia - Sure, I would go for that.
However I don't, and all the people I read as mafia are people with less posts (Shockwave, Seppel, ZOMG). Which make sense to me.
I have no idea who is a strong player and who isn't, I'm playing with most of the people here for the first time.
Shh, we agreed not to talk to each other about our alignments.
You can keep talking about Shock, though.
I don't have much more to say.
Everything I think is out in thread and has been talked about and debated in circles to death.
If you want to ask me something I'll be here for like another 30 minutes or so.
Should really go to bed but eh.
I'm not trying to be difficult right now. I'm admitting I don't have my own ***** together like I should reguarding reads. Remember having some bad casing earlier in the game, and it took the wind out of my sails. Been trying to get my head in back in things things posting dropping overall in all aspects of the game.
I think some back and forth would do me good to get speaking.
And if someone wants to go, COACHING!! Or Lazy, or whatever, so be it. I can't go down silently. That would be pure bull***** on my part to just give up now. If I get lynched so what? I tried, but damn it.
36 hours
well shorter now but you should get the point
The Family
Wait, so 2359 on Dec 1 (-0600 GMT)?
But 11:59pm on December 1st isn't.
Well if that isn't the scummiest *****ni have ever seen
its true though
So, tom and silver, was the TMI int.....
Why though? Lynch town means we lose town.
No lynch means no town death. That. Is. Good.
I would rather lose one town toNight than lynch town and lose one at night.
Why do you want to lynch town?
I'd have to reread all of my town leans, though.
Because I'm not confident enough to say there's 3 scum in (you/seppel/ag/zen).
Two seems plausible but not three.
Essentially the middle players could shift left or right in their respective tier as I wasn't feeling greatly confident on exact placement of them to that point, and to be frank I'm not much more satisfied having caught up. The only one I feel solid on is shadow.
Gradually shifted to soft-null. DoTA didn't ping me too hard and I liked Silver's Tom case before I started reading the rest of the thread, but its kind of gone up and down from there.
The Family
But if we can't lynch someone else lynching shockwave is better than talking about lynching shockwave again tomorrow
What.
You said
"I'd rather lynch town"
Welcome back mind.
Any ideas on who we need to lynch?
Thanks, I needed that.
Yes. I think shockwave is town.
And would vote to lynch him over no lynching in a heartbeat.
Remember my math?
@mind
Chippy
I dig it.
I'm getting faint town signals from his posts.
Mind sharing?
I'm not sure on shockwave. His behavior could go either way here, he gets lynched early and often, mostly because of it. I could quote town games of his where I was sure he was scum, and scum games where I was equally sure.
As a policy Lynch? I could get behind it. As silver mentioned, I've been BEGGING him to do something for a few days. Anything. Because I can't believe in a game with 4 replacements already, we could have this much lurking. Which brings me to AG, who I had bad feelings on right out of the gate, who hasn't responded in a satisfactory way, and who's equally gone. If I'm settling for "best of whats around" lynch at the end of day, AG or Shockwave are fine.
Tom, I literally don't know what to think. The Silver push has me stumped. Literally I don't understand the logic there. But, that on it's own? Dunno. It's not a hard case. Same with Silver. I don't remember having much of an impression of DoTA, but Silver's introduced enough wine that I'm not certain one way or another. In short, he can live until tomorrow.
I will second what was said above. If you're the vig, there are some great targets. Shadow/Silver/Tom/AG, maybe even Vaimes/Seppel/Me if you want to get fancy. There is a lot of town in that pile, but it's all good info.
Unless you think you're in no danger of a nightkill tonight, and then you could wait I guess.
The person I'm having the most trouble reconciling (and that's saying something with Seppel/Tom in the mix), is Zomg. What are the thoughts here. I haven't seen much from him, just him checking in to nudge us in a direction and then gone again.
@Zen: If you think I'm scum, who do you think my buddies are?
@Zom: you mentioned building a case on Tom, and not having specific posts to reference, how exactly would that case differ from Silver's? Do you dislike his case so far? What's your read on Shock right now (can't remember if you've said already).
Which posts specifically changed your view? There must have been some revelationary moment, I'd like to know what you were reading when it happened.
@Seppel: Do you have any thoughts on my alignment?
Unvote
I like silver a lot more than DotA, and Shadow is moving towards null/town for me.
Not a big fan of your initial posts. Your later posts feel better.
Won't lynch: zomg, Mindreaver, rodemy, silver, (starting to lean towards adding shadow on here)
Will lynch: anyone else (rereading to try and solidify some scum reads)
/raise hand
What led you to do that? Do you just look through ISOs in that fashion for every pair of players?
What has Silver done that's so profoundly towny? If you had to point to three posts that clearly show his alignment, please highlight them and explain.
Watch out with this, zomg.
That game is ongoing.
That would be hurting my wincon.
I don't think I have the wim to read, but ask questions preferably with quotes/links when needed... Going to hammer out the past midnight hours here to get something done.
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@AG - Thanks for answering, I have the same question for you but for ZOMG instead of Silver.
Looking back, I think if I had to pick only one post to divine DoTA's alignment, it would be this one.
It just. Doesn't look like town to me at all. There are too many issues with it.
1. It's the second case of DoTA parroting someone else's thoughts instead of just presenting his own.
2. He is somehow looking at zomg making guesses as to why Hunt was replaced, and says, "Town wouldn't ask if a player who was suddenly replaced ragequit!" There is no connection there between the two (being scum and asking why someone replaced out, with "ragequit?" being a scummy guess).
3. DoTA is cherrypicking zomg's quote here.
4. He accuses zomg of using the replace-out to opportunistically push on the Huntslot, even though zomg had literally never mentioned Hunt and, in fact, was pushing the same scumread as him.
5. Small thing, but when DoTA says "if zomg or shadow are scum, I'm permavoting the other," that makes me think he listed one buddy there on the off-chance that if his buddy got lynched, he could try and score a mislynch on the other.
I think if DoTA were town, he wouldn't have even made this post. He'd have simply given his thoughts and voted accordingly. There was no real reason to let tom answer first (except to piggyback off of tom's answer!); it was more or less an OOG question, no one was trying to scumhunt tom with that question, so the Garcia rule doesn't even apply.
I understand that people think Silver is a great player and all. I do too! But that doesn't mean playing well = town. And him playing well doesn't mean DoTA's posts never existed.
I strongly feel that this slot is scum, and if so, I'd want to spend all of Day 2 making shadow squirm. I'd be ~okay with lynching shadow instead, but the possible connection to the DoTAslot is fuzzier in that order.
I need specific reasons as to why people are unwilling to lynch Silver. Something better than "he looks/sounds town!" What has he done that you believe is absolutely beyond his scumrange?
I'm ~mostly ignoring frustration/AtE posts, since no one likes getting scumread. Of course, there are some exceptions where the person having a meltdown is very clearly one alignment over the other, but no one has made any of those posts in this game, I think (and shouldn't).
Really should go to bed but man do I have the mafia itch right now.
Reeeally small thing, but I don't think scum!Shock immediately OMGUS's like this. Eco would probably advise him to shrug it off or something.
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My issues were with DoTA, but they occupy the same slot.
Such is life.
Also surely you have more to say than that.
I asked for an updated case of Shadow, since the original one was posted early on the game and I didn't see any update.
@Shockwave - Can you make a Will Lynch/Won't Lynch list?
@Vaimes - Take for example posts #569 and #589, if Silver is mafia well he is trying to solve the game more than other players this game. I don't know what his scumrange is, I just think his posts come from a town motivation, and it seems very hard to fake all those posts as mafia. Why are you willing to risk losing a potentially strong town player in Day 1 (that is being read as town by several other people)?
Do you think scum don't know how to get townread? Do you think we should leave ALL strong players alone on Day 1? Who would we lynch, then? What if all the "weak" players are town? RNG is blind.
@Vaimes: What do you think I'm trying to do? Actually forgot SilverCrys was DoTa slot.
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I think its risky for mafia to post so much since they would be scared to get caught in a slip, plus they won't want to reveal their mafiamates in case they get lynched. To me it seems like Silver is a town player who just says what he feels. Can he be a mafia faking it? Sure, but I think the chances for that are less likely and thats not how I'm reading his posts.
Someone who is not posting is a more dangerous player because he will coast to the end (Mafia won't kill him), and will be used by mafia as a shield to hide themselves and be their safe net to mislynch when the time comes. Those players not only doesn't help solve the game but also can cause to lose it. I would rather get rid of those players Day 1 Where there is less data anyway (no flips). Yes, my opinion on lurkers/deepmafia will probably change later on the game when we have more info.
What is RNG?
I mean this in the least offensive way possible, but this is such a dumb statement. I have a hard time fathoming town!Silver coming to this conclusion on page ******* thirteen.
Because yeah no ***** Shock is an easy wagon, all the time, every game, regardless of his alignment. Everyone and their ancestors knows that.
Please stop being so difficult, or you're probably going to die for it.
2. It is precisely /because/ we have no data on Day 1 that we need a better lynch than a lurker.
3. Random Number Generator. Alignments are completely randomized, so hypothesizing, for example, that "all the strong players can't be mafia!" or what-have-you isn't really a productive argument. Especially when the line between strong and weak is blurry and subjective.
There's nothing to compare to, unless you want to look at turbos where I froze for 18 minutes and got lynched D1.
In which case I'm not even in the same galaxy, never mind inside of it.
And this game isn't going to help you in that regard because I'm not scum.
But yes, such is life.
I knew replacing in that DoTA was being scumread and I'd have my work cut out for me either way.
I don't blame anyone for scumreading this slot.
But the way tom has gone about pushing me makes me think it's him.
I don't really have much more to say on the subject.
As for shock, the case isn't slam dunk.
He could be town though I don't think it's likely.
But I know I am, and we're the leading wagons.
You can keep talking about Shock, though.
I started playing six months ago and this is my fourth game that didn't have 18 minutes day phases.
So whatever you think is mouth-breathingly obvious probably isn't to me.
I'm just saying what I think.
I don't think I've concealed any of my thought process at all.
If you think I'm scummy independently,
or even just want to pretend it's in my non-existent scum range so you can scumread the slot for what DoTA did,
Well, there's not much I can do about it.
C'est la vie.
Lol I might.
If there was someone with high volume of posts that I would suspect as mafia - Sure, I would go for that.
However I don't, and all the people I read as mafia are people with less posts (Shockwave, Seppel, ZOMG). Which make sense to me.
I have no idea who is a strong player and who isn't, I'm playing with most of the people here for the first time.
Everything I think is out in thread and has been talked about and debated in circles to death.
If you want to ask me something I'll be here for like another 30 minutes or so.
Should really go to bed but eh.
I think some back and forth would do me good to get speaking.
And if someone wants to go, COACHING!! Or Lazy, or whatever, so be it. I can't go down silently. That would be pure bull***** on my part to just give up now. If I get lynched so what? I tried, but damn it.
SOMEONE TALK TO ME!!!!!
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