zomg is the Doc, but I'll feel better about this once <redacted> happens.
Zenzao is strongly playing to his town meta.
Rod is hm, a strong-ish townread for energy, enthusiasm, being consistently active and involved. I hate "I will always lose to scum!xyz" reads because it's so defeatist, but I don't think there's anything we can do at this point if Rod is scum. He'd be a paranoia lynch and nothing more, and that's a horrible reason to lynch him. Unless someone wants to try and sell me on a scum!Rod world, I'm just gonna slot him as town and move on.
Still think Shock was mislynch bait. Eco leading a lynch on Mind is eh, probably just wrong town. I'll look through his posts again, but not my first choice to lynch.
And then we're left with three. tom, Silver, and shadow. I will quit mafia if 2/3 of those names AREN'T scum. I just can't see that being possible.
No lynch is an option, though I'd guess it'll just end up with either Vaimes or zomg dead on the floor.
Here's where I'm at.
zomg is clear in the absence of a counterclaim.
If Vaimes is scum he's going to the F3/F4 and we probably lose.
I'm ride-or-die on shadow.
These are the reads I believe in most strongly.
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
Vaimes
shadowlancerx
That means there must be three scum in...
Ecophagy
Rodemy
ZenzaoDLP
tomsloger
So to answer Vaimes' question, it's virtually always tom. And his buddies are probably Rodemy/Zen, I guess?
Mostly because I don't think Eco and tom come in to D2 with exactly the same lynch targets (me/shadow) if they're buddies.
And I mostly believe in zomg's clear of shockwave.
re: tom/shadow teams, I think tom's being too aggressive for a bus.
Though I guess it'd make more sense if he was trying to chain lynch me after him if shadow is scum?
Ehh.... Ok. Maybe. For the sake of argument, it's tom/shadow/x. I think it almost has to be zen there anyway. I don't think it's Eco, and it's ~probably not Rodemy over Zen.
@Vaimes:
Hypothetically speaking, there's at least one guaranteed scum in Eco/Rodemy/Zen (i.e. one of your townreads is wrong.) Who is it?
Also, if you think I've been trying to bus tom since I replaced in, lol!me I guess.
I hate it when town players give up on arguing against their lynch or doing something once that lynch becomes inevitable. Push their reads harder. Push back on who they think are myslynching them intentionally and who is just being stupid about it. Mind was AWOL at a time when he could have maybe nudged the lynch in another direction and instead, as seems to becoming a trend with this game, he gave up and ****ed right off. And while I can see a reason for why maybe!doc!zomg is still alive toDay, I don't get why Seppel never used his shot before this. What was he sitting on N1/N2?
Quote from DayEnd D1 »
Shock (1): AG (#812)
DoTASilver (1): Seppel (#566)
shadow (3): Rod (#843), tom (#844), Vaimes (#848)
AG (7): Shock (#719), HuntMind (#769), DoTASilver (#776), zomg (#778), ClaraZen (#786), shadow (#831), KosaMete0r (#859)
@Vaimes My top scum pick flipped town, my second-most scummy pick flipped town. Shadow thus gets bumped up to prime sirloin position. I'm still leaning Eco because of tom's insistence we lynch Silver/shadow and for Shock getting the AG-wagon rolling, and now Eco getting the Mind-wagon rolling. In both cases Shock-Eco was the first to lead the final charge. Also in both instances we have zomg and Silver present(and yes, I'll point out myself as well). The problem I'm running into is that two-on-one-off doesn't fit. Eco/Shadow/Silver all voted AG, whereas Eco/Silver were on Mind and shadow on tom. But if I'm wrong on Eco, you get one scum in Silver on Mind while shadow and tom were off-wagon D2, but D1 Silver/Shadow on AG while tom was on shadow D1.
So my scum reads are thus;
Shadow
Eco|Tom|Silver.
@Rod I'm not exactly happy Seppel flipped without getting a shot off. Still think most of our interaction was scummy to hell and back but apparently that's how he plays as town. If you want to lynch me, run with it then. But I expect you to have a case and you can expect me to rail against it to the limits of my time and patience.
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We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
I'm not interested in what you would or wouldn't do as scum, since that meta doesn't exist. You can basically make up whatever you want. And the correct term is "distancing," since literally nothing has come of your scumread on tom or his on you. Nothing.
If I'm wrong on someone, it's probably Rod. Given my eyes mostly glaze over his posts, and I haven't really been keeping very close track of his reads or thoughts.
Also, Zenzao is town.
---
The kill points to players on the scumteam who are 1) good at rolehunting, and 2) willing to take the gamble on NOT shooting a townfirm. And honestly, that seems right up tom's or Silver's ally. ~Maybe Eco. Don't really think Zen or Rod would go for it.
And I guess the fact that Mete0r was killed N1 instead of zomg points to the Shockslot being town.
I'm kind of paranoid that Shock got the Bugs Bunny reference but didn't make the Doc connection, and we're clearing him incorrectly, but. Eh. He was already a townlean for me anyways, so. I'll take it.
It's not a matter of what I would or wouldn't do. Go read my iso until D2. I pushed him hard. And he didn't get lynched. Not because I backed off of him, or because I'm his buddy soft balling him, or whatever. But because no one else wanted to lynch tom. Literally no one. I tried. I feel like I've been screaming into a black abyss. And now you're just... blowing it off.
Like, I spent all of Day 1 trying to get people to vote him, casing him, arguing with him, etc. I've been trying to get him lynched since I replaced in. It's not my fault no one would listen.
Or maybe it is I guess.
Whatever. I'll reread in a few days after exams are over.
I guess I just imagined the part where you half-heartedly pushed on Shock literally as soon as you replaced in.
Anyway, I've been trying to lynch your slot with about the same amount of success as you vs. tom. Guess people just aren't interested in lynching mafia.
That was the first thing I did, sure. But I spent the rest of the day pushing tom. I don't know what you want from me. I replaced in under fire and did the best I could. I'll be damned if I let my mislynch lose the game - would've been better to not replace in at all at that rate, or slanked on purpose so you'd lynch me and get off shadow at least.
You and shadow are not both town. There's just no way.
Vaimes
zomg
Zenzao
Rod
Eco
tom
shadow
Silver
I'm town. zomg is town. In your own little world, you're also town.
Zenzao
Rod
Eco
tom
shadow
I'm clearing Zenzao. zomg cleared the Shockslot, and I'm inclined to go with it. The mafia shot Mete0r for some reason N1, and didn't even block zomg. It's more likely they didn't know who the Doc was, and didn't catch any PR crumbs. Shockslot is likely town due to this.
That leaves three names.
Rod
tom
shadow
Your continued defense of shadow absolutely reeks in light of this.
Eliminating yourself and your townreads narrows it down to Rod and Zenzao. Zen is town, and there's very little chance of Rod getting lynched over you/shadow/tom toDay. So you either need to case Rod/Zen, or accept that you are wrong on shadow.
OK, I need to reevaluate. I'd like to trust Vaimes, but I'm not going to do it blindly.
@Tom: Could you please explain in as much detail as possible why you thought Mindreaver might flip town, and why you didn't really do anything to stop it?
Maybe I am wrong about shadow. I don't think so, but I don't really have time to reread and reassess right now.
I haven't forgotten wagons, I just don't have time to go digging in them right now. Looking at that one, it's probably just zen. Like I've been saying. I don't know his meta but his wagon position makes it more likely him than shadow OR rodemy. Especially if it's tom/eco/x because he would have stopped his buddy from being lynched by moving to shadow right after, if I recall correctly.
@Tom: Could you please explain in as much detail as possible why you thought Mindreaver might flip town, and why you didn't really do anything to stop it?
i thought him and silver were unlikely scum together
and silver is scum
I'm going to put together a post today, the short of it is that I don't see a world where both silver and tom are town, and I firmly believe that silver is town. I'm going to look at who could be his partners.
Short aside: Rodemy, I'm sick of your constant attack on me without any actual content. You're basically repeating "he's scum" over and over and confbiasing without actually making any real effort to look at my posts or have rational thoughts around the game state. Show your work, because you haven't really done anything for a while.
Vaimes is town clearing people left and right and it's bugging the crap outta me. Where are these townclears coming from? You auto clear zen (which i still don't see.)
And then push from there.
the only confirmed town is zomg
So why don't we listen to zomg instead of vaimes. Vaimes, for all we know, could be powerwolfing the ***** outta toDay to work a mislynch.
For that reason, i will only listen to zomg.
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If Vaimes is a wolf, I'm pretty sure we've already lost. He's basically unaligned with the entire game except maybe zen of whom he's said little besides "he's town becuz meta" and the players all pushing the same PoE as him (tom/eco). Like, I could see Vaimes/tom/Zen or Vaimes/tom/Eco if I'm tinfoiling? That would fit with my feeling that the scum team is driving the narrative and the PoE is all town, I guess. But I definitely don't think it's Vaimes/Shadow, like ever, and I'm 99% tom is scum.
Maybe when I get a chance to reread I'll see something I missed.
It's silver and shadow
We might lose to the third but we all know what we have to do first
If you think it's me, fine. That sounds like a problem for later
Come on.
Zenzao is town because of his back and forth with Seppel. That is 100% town!Zenzao. That is the ONLY person I am clearing, so quit overwxaggerating, Rod.
You say "let's only listen to zomg" but 1) being conftown doesn't make your reads correct, and 2) zomg was the one who cleared Shock in the first place, so nyeh.
Best lynch today is going to be tom hands down, basically the only way he's town is if Silver isn't. Unless the scum team is something completely stupid like Vaimes/Zenzao/Rodemy, but I'm pretty sure we all lose to something like that.
Let's look at partners for Tom:
Silver: town or he and tom have the best bus ever. If silver and tom are scum together, I don't think we ever win. The only possible evidence I see against this is that despite Tom believing silver and I to be scum together, he seems slightly more eager to lynch me before silver, but a more plausible explanation would be that my town flip doesn't stop Tom's chain lynch attempt of silver anyway.
Vaimes: I don't see Vaimes as hard unaligned with Tom, but I also really don't see Vaimes as scum. His game analysis has felt real, I believe he wants to solve the game. I will reread tomorrow to see if I'm just completely out of whack.
Eco: Alone, I feel like shock's end of day 1 is more likely to have come from town!shock than scum!shock, however Tom's town read on him and then weird WIFOMY comments regarding how he does a certain thing as town and had to duplicate it as scum raise some flags between the two. I could see an Eco and tom coached shock being more able to not completely break under pressure.
Zen: He could be a partner for Tom, but with Vaimes' insistence that he's town, I'm going to basically ignore him until we actually lynch Tom, because in order for me to have a true read of my own on his meta, I need to make my way through is offsite games, and doing that when I have no desire to lynch anyone other than Tom is a potential waste of time.
Rodemy: Aside from being way more buddy buddy than I would expect from scum partners, Rodemy could be Tom's partner. He has a couple of similar reads, but inexplicable differences that he doesn't actually want to clarify at all. Regardless of how similar this is to town!Rodmey's standard play, it's scummier than most other possibilities.
_______________________________________________
So I guess that leaves me with Tom/Eco/Rodemy. I will lynch Tom today and read Zen and Vaimes tomorrow. If no one has a good argument for a team that doesn't include Tom (or silver cause I'm not voting him), I'll place my vote later today.
Zenzao is town because of his back and forth with Seppel. That is 100% town!Zenzao. That is the ONLY person I am clearing, so quit overwxaggerating, Rod.
You say "let's only listen to zomg" but 1) being conftown doesn't make your reads correct, and 2) zomg was the one who cleared Shock in the first place, so nyeh.
Did you just nyeh me!?
Well i never!
Awesome. Shadow is tunneling me again. And now he is "tired" of me always being on him
Sorry buddy, if i think yer scum, i think yer scum.
And to single me out? Not cool
Heree is tom, adamantly calling for you and silver. No flack towards him?
Wwhat about vaimes? He has me you and tom as the scum team?
I'm not the only one who thinks you are scum, and tbh i am carrying hunts (who flipped town) argument on you.
This just adds to the whole "i think he is scum" argument.
I made a whole wall. You should read it, very god stuff.
I thought i could see where silver was coming from, but alas, cannot.
I can post an entire wall again, which tbh, nobody likes, or i can just say hey, die scum.
Imma go with option 2.
As for trusting in zomg, true, his reads could be off. I might be trusting of him because he decided to protect me last night, so at least one of his reads is right.
Why don't you like zomg, vaimes? yeah he cleared shock i dont see that as bad. Do you still think eco is scum?
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The way I see it: Seppel was NK'd because the scum believed the Town bought Zomg's claim and agreed that Seppel was cleared. They blocked Zomg and killed Seppel because they believe (not unreasonably) that confirmed Town Seppel is more of a threat than confirmed Town Zomg.
On today, I think there's two worlds. One of them is where the scum team is Silver/Shadow/X. This is the easy (some might say obvious) world. In the other world, these guys are Town. In this second world, the scum have probably committed to getting the last mislynch out of Silver or Shadow. Off the top of my head, this probably makes the scum team something like Vaimes/Tom/X. As much as I'd like to just take the easy route and if we lose just shrug and say "well Silver and Shadow were scummy, what can you do?", I find that often in mafia the easy way is the wrong way.
We have a lot of time today, I intend to use it to try and untangle what's going on here, even if the end result is the easy A universe.
Maybe I am wrong about shadow. I don't think so, but I don't really have time to reread and reassess right now.
To be absolutely honest, your head is on the block right now and if you're town, the game is very much in your hands. You need to try and find the time to do your reevaluation because if you don't, you'll probably be lynched by default.
To start off with, I would really like to see a summary of why you think Shadow is Town, and how the events of the last Day have affected that.
@Shadow: I'd like to see the same thing from you in reverse: a summary of why you think Silver is Town, and how recent events have impacted that read.
i thought him and silver were unlikely scum together
and silver is scum
thats kind of it really.
OK, good start. Why did you think that Mindreaver and Silver are unlikely to be scum together? Can you explain why you didn't really try and stop the Mindreaver wagon?
shadow, did you make a whole post about my possible buddies and your conclusion was "everyone can be aligned with tom so im just giving my read of them"?
@Tom: The whole point of my post was to examine what it would take for each person to be your scum buddies. You know, because I think you're scum and after your flip, I want to have a jumping off point.
@Eco: Deal, it might not be until tomorrow though, I'm running a board game night after work and I'll not be able to be online.
@Rodemy: I dislike that you have voted me several times for not understanding my posts, not even because you have an actual reason, so yeah, I'm tired of that. I'm also annoyed that you placed a vote down in MyLo super callously, if I get quick hammered at some point because of you're shoot first ask questions later mentality, then I'm going to be mad.
@Tom: The whole point of my post was to examine what it would take for each person to be your scum buddies. You know, because I think you're scum and after your flip, I want to have a jumping off point.
@Eco: Deal, it might not be until tomorrow though, I'm running a board game night after work and I'll not be able to be online.
@Rodemy: I dislike that you have voted me several times for not understanding my posts, not even because you have an actual reason, so yeah, I'm tired of that. I'm also annoyed that you placed a vote down in MyLo super callously, if I get quick hammered at some point because of you're shoot first ask questions later mentality, then I'm going to be mad.
I won't, because you are scum.
Moving on from there, we got silver who needs to really reassess shadow or i'm gonna have to switch my sights a bit. I do not like how after so many town flips you have yet to change your view in him.
I like tom. He might actually be right.
As for a third its up in the air.
There is an independent scum. And with the amount of hostility i got fro. Zenzao, i think it might be him. Clara might have screwed him over and that could be why he is going for the pissy vibe.
But hey, i don't use my brain. So why listen to me, eh?
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i tried to move the lynch elsewhere, but i wasnt actually townreading mindreaver
and your case was pretty good tbh.
I'm not sure you actually did. You said you'd have to reread in #1020 but then you never did. You made passing references but didn't substantiate any of them. This is very concerning to me.
Why did it matter how good my case was if the result didn't fit in with your worldview? Shouldn't you have either challenged my case or tried to reevaluate your world view?
To be absolutely honest, your head is on the block right now and if you're town, the game is very much in your hands. You need to try and find the time to do your reevaluation because if you don't, you'll probably be lynched by default.
To start off with, I would really like to see a summary of why you think Shadow is Town, and how the events of the last Day have affected that.
If you want to rush the lynch, be my guest. I won't have time until later this week, like Thursday or Friday. At the earliest. Exams are more important than this game, especially when I've basically any thought I've had about the game is in a post I've made somewhere. I'm at a loss for anything else I could even do to convince you all. I fully intend to reread and let you know if anything changes, but pressing me on it when I've already said I won't have time until later this week isn't super helpful.
Anyway. The summary of my shadow read is that he had a few pure-sounding posts on D1, I think Huntz' case on him was bad to begin with, and I don't think he's scum with tom. Could I be wrong on him? Sure. I could be. I guess in that world, scum!tom wanted to lynch me first to soft clear his buddy, or if his buddy gets lynched guarantee he can mislynch me after. But it seems more likely he's been counting on our so-called "independent scumminess" to get us both lynched. Even though the "case" appears to be that we're only specifically scum together and not separately which doesn't even make sense at this point because I don't even think we have a credible third. Vaimes is trying to say it's tom.
I don't think shadow's done anything in the last Day or so to change that evaluation but when I get a chance I'll look at it again and see if something jumps out at me.
Moving on from there, we got silver who needs to really reassess shadow or i'm gonna have to switch my sights a bit. I do not like how after so many town flips you have yet to change your view in him.
Why is it more likely shadow than tom? Why are you now creating a narrative that I'm not "reevaluating" when no one else seems to be either? What makes my failure to reevaluate worse than yours, or Vaimes', or tom's? Are you even trying to view the game through my reads or are you just trying to pressure me into flipping on shadow?
Day 2
Mindreaver - Eco, Seppel, Zen, Silver, Rodemy, Zomg
Seppel - Mindreaver
Shadow - Tom
Tom - Shadow
Not Voting - Vaimes
First observation, that's a lot of Townies on both lynches. Makes sense that the scum would be happy to watch both happen since they didn't really need to do anything to help them along. Silver stands out as being in the middle of both, and if Shadow is scum as well, either Zen or Rodemy could be the last buddy (of the two I'd lean Zen since I'm expect scum to be more likely to end the day pushing the CFD lynch rather than sit on a buddy). Looking from the other side, on both Days Tom and Vaimes weren't on the main wagon, which again would probably leave Zenzao as the last buddy (since 3 scum on Shadow D1 is far-fetched).
So if it's Silver/Shadow/{Rodemy/Zen}, scum have been bandwagoning aggressively making sure both Town lynches go through.
If it's Tom/Vaimes/Zen then one of them has been pushing the Town wagons while the other two just focus on Shadow without rocking the boat.
Day 2
Mindreaver - Eco, Seppel, Zen, Silver, Rodemy, Zomg
Seppel - Mindreaver
Shadow - Tom
Tom - Shadow
Not Voting - Vaimes
First observation, that's a lot of Townies on both lynches. Makes sense that the scum would be happy to watch both happen since they didn't really need to do anything to help them along. Silver stands out as being in the middle of both, and if Shadow is scum as well, either Zen or Rodemy could be the last buddy (of the two I'd lean Zen since I'm expect scum to be more likely to end the day pushing the CFD lynch rather than sit on a buddy). Looking from the other side, on both Days Tom and Vaimes weren't on the main wagon, which again would probably leave Zenzao as the last buddy (since 3 scum on Shadow D1 is far-fetched).
So if it's Silver/Shadow/{Rodemy/Zen}, scum have been bandwagoning aggressively making sure both Town lynches go through.
If it's Tom/Vaimes/Zen then one of them has been pushing the Town wagons while the other two just focus on Shadow without rocking the boat.
Imma use this later for my own analysis. Thanks eco!
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To be absolutely honest, your head is on the block right now and if you're town, the game is very much in your hands. You need to try and find the time to do your reevaluation because if you don't, you'll probably be lynched by default.
To start off with, I would really like to see a summary of why you think Shadow is Town, and how the events of the last Day have affected that.
If you want to rush the lynch, be my guest. I won't have time until later this week, like Thursday or Friday. At the earliest. Exams are more important than this game, especially when I've basically any thought I've had about the game is in a post I've made somewhere. I'm at a loss for anything else I could even do to convince you all. I fully intend to reread and let you know if anything changes, but pressing me on it when I've already said I won't have time until later this week isn't super helpful.
Anyway. The summary of my shadow read is that he had a few pure-sounding posts on D1, I think Huntz' case on him was bad to begin with, and I don't think he's scum with tom. Could I be wrong on him? Sure. I could be. I guess in that world, scum!tom wanted to lynch me first to soft clear his buddy, or if his buddy gets lynched guarantee he can mislynch me after. But it seems more likely he's been counting on our so-called "independent scumminess" to get us both lynched. Even though the "case" appears to be that we're only specifically scum together and not separately which doesn't even make sense at this point because I don't even think we have a credible third. Vaimes is trying to say it's tom.
I don't think shadow's done anything in the last Day or so to change that evaluation but when I get a chance I'll look at it again and see if something jumps out at me.
Moving on from there, we got silver who needs to really reassess shadow or i'm gonna have to switch my sights a bit. I do not like how after so many town flips you have yet to change your view in him.
Why is it more likely shadow than tom? Why are you now creating a narrative that I'm not "reevaluating" when no one else seems to be either? What makes my failure to reevaluate worse than yours, or Vaimes', or tom's? Are you even trying to view the game through my reads or are you just trying to pressure me into flipping on shadow?
The last one.
I want a scum flip, god damnit.
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@Rod, I've briefly entertained the same notion that you noticed regarding Vaimes. His lack of a vote yesterDay is a bit troubling, but I'm not exactly looking too hard at him as he's kind of the only anchor I have in this game at the moment(though if he's scum, that also fits with town-siding me so hard, and I find it a bit hard to believe that he remembered my single scum meta from a game years ago when he couldn't even remember Mimefia just a few months back).
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
And I don't want you to get lynched, since it's MyLo and I think other people are much more likely to be scum than you.
---
Also ptap, I'm taking my last final exam today. o/
HPM. My QT, post-modkill discussion. Probably semantics. Don't really care - suicidal thoughts dancing in my head like sugar plums this oh so wonderful and joyous time of the year contending with toxic relatives. Not going to act on them, but oh how the brief nihilism of it gets me through the day(fun fact: I'd make a terrific Sith with how much hatred burns inside my heart for some of these people after repetitive years).
Good luck on your exam.
We either lynch scum toDay or its game over. Frankly I'll be happy either way.
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Quote from Vaimes »
We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
@Rod, I've briefly entertained the same notion that you noticed regarding Vaimes. His lack of a vote yesterDay is a bit troubling, but I'm not exactly looking too hard at him as he's kind of the only anchor I have in this game at the moment(though if he's scum, that also fits with town-siding me so hard, and I find it a bit hard to believe that he remembered my single scum meta from a game years ago when he couldn't even remember Mimefia just a few months back).
It would really, really help me out if you could take a hard look at Vaimes. I'd like to see some proper behavioural analysis rather then your current "Town because I know him" read.
@Rod, I've briefly entertained the same notion that you noticed regarding Vaimes. His lack of a vote yesterDay is a bit troubling, but I'm not exactly looking too hard at him as he's kind of the only anchor I have in this game at the moment(though if he's scum, that also fits with town-siding me so hard, and I find it a bit hard to believe that he remembered my single scum meta from a game years ago when he couldn't even remember Mimefia just a few months back).
It would really, really help me out if you could take a hard look at Vaimes. I'd like to see some proper behavioural analysis rather then your current "Town because I know him" read.
All I can tell you right now is that he isn't playing in a way I can recognize in either direction. As scum in Narutomafia I don't remember him making a big presence in the first few days. We CFD'd him at the last second and that essentially put the nail in the coffin as Kalas finally tried souping everyone in a last hurrah and failed, and after that it was a matter of crumb unveiling to catch Typhon. And to be fair with regards to Mimefia where he was town, I mostly zoned out after my N1 NK and skimmed the thread intermittently hoping to see Newcomb and Fonti caught out. If you want you can check his posts in both threads here(Narutomafia, Mimefia). I may do a reread of both games myself to get out of my own head on Vaimes but it'll be a couple of days off.
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We see the wild Zenzao going about his natural routine, almost like clockwork: lurking around the savanna (his desktop) and occasionally moseying up to other gentle creatures; until around sundown, at which point he packs up and makes for his tree (goes mobile) where he will spend the rest of the evening alone and undisturbed. A healthy Zenzao will prefer not sleep for some time, and their precise waking time is currently unknown.
@Rod, I've briefly entertained the same notion that you noticed regarding Vaimes. His lack of a vote yesterDay is a bit troubling, but I'm not exactly looking too hard at him as he's kind of the only anchor I have in this game at the moment(though if he's scum, that also fits with town-siding me so hard, and I find it a bit hard to believe that he remembered my single scum meta from a game years ago when he couldn't even remember Mimefia just a few months back).
It would really, really help me out if you could take a hard look at Vaimes. I'd like to see some proper behavioural analysis rather then your current "Town because I know him" read.
All I can tell you right now is that he isn't playing in a way I can recognize in either direction. As scum in Narutomafia I don't remember him making a big presence in the first few days. We CFD'd him at the last second and that essentially put the nail in the coffin as Kalas finally tried souping everyone in a last hurrah and failed, and after that it was a matter of crumb unveiling to catch Typhon. And to be fair with regards to Mimefia where he was town, I mostly zoned out after my N1 NK and skimmed the thread intermittently hoping to see Newcomb and Fonti caught out. If you want you can check his posts in both threads here(Narutomafia, Mimefia). I may do a reread of both games myself to get out of my own head on Vaimes but it'll be a couple of days off.
Give me til tomorrow eve. I gotta get on my laptop. I'll see what i can find in this game.
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
If people want to meta me, you'd have better luck checking out my games here. Since I've been every alignment on MTGS, and my play is pretty different on my homesite.
Zen, I can link you to some of my games here if you have the time. Comparing me to my DLP self is kinda pointless.
Silver/shadow/zen
~zero confidence in zen there. But I have townreads everywhere else
Math is fun
I also failed entirely at my lurking plan
zomg is the Doc, but I'll feel better about this once <redacted> happens.
Zenzao is strongly playing to his town meta.
Rod is hm, a strong-ish townread for energy, enthusiasm, being consistently active and involved. I hate "I will always lose to scum!xyz" reads because it's so defeatist, but I don't think there's anything we can do at this point if Rod is scum. He'd be a paranoia lynch and nothing more, and that's a horrible reason to lynch him. Unless someone wants to try and sell me on a scum!Rod world, I'm just gonna slot him as town and move on.
Still think Shock was mislynch bait. Eco leading a lynch on Mind is eh, probably just wrong town. I'll look through his posts again, but not my first choice to lynch.
And then we're left with three. tom, Silver, and shadow. I will quit mafia if 2/3 of those names AREN'T scum. I just can't see that being possible.
like ive been saying since day 1
Here's where I'm at.
zomg is clear in the absence of a counterclaim.
If Vaimes is scum he's going to the F3/F4 and we probably lose.
I'm ride-or-die on shadow.
These are the reads I believe in most strongly.
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
Vaimes
shadowlancerx
That means there must be three scum in...
Ecophagy
Rodemy
ZenzaoDLP
tomsloger
So to answer Vaimes' question, it's virtually always tom. And his buddies are probably Rodemy/Zen, I guess?
Mostly because I don't think Eco and tom come in to D2 with exactly the same lynch targets (me/shadow) if they're buddies.
And I mostly believe in zomg's clear of shockwave.
re: tom/shadow teams, I think tom's being too aggressive for a bus.
Though I guess it'd make more sense if he was trying to chain lynch me after him if shadow is scum?
Ehh.... Ok. Maybe. For the sake of argument, it's tom/shadow/x. I think it almost has to be zen there anyway. I don't think it's Eco, and it's ~probably not Rodemy over Zen.
@Vaimes:
Hypothetically speaking, there's at least one guaranteed scum in Eco/Rodemy/Zen (i.e. one of your townreads is wrong.) Who is it?
Also, if you think I've been trying to bus tom since I replaced in, lol!me I guess.
but i have two of them and i feel good about that
ill read some zenzao games this phase though
@Vaimes My top scum pick flipped town, my second-most scummy pick flipped town. Shadow thus gets bumped up to prime sirloin position. I'm still leaning Eco because of tom's insistence we lynch Silver/shadow and for Shock getting the AG-wagon rolling, and now Eco getting the Mind-wagon rolling. In both cases Shock-Eco was the first to lead the final charge. Also in both instances we have zomg and Silver present(and yes, I'll point out myself as well). The problem I'm running into is that two-on-one-off doesn't fit. Eco/Shadow/Silver all voted AG, whereas Eco/Silver were on Mind and shadow on tom. But if I'm wrong on Eco, you get one scum in Silver on Mind while shadow and tom were off-wagon D2, but D1 Silver/Shadow on AG while tom was on shadow D1.
So my scum reads are thus;
Shadow
Eco|Tom|Silver.
@Rod I'm not exactly happy Seppel flipped without getting a shot off. Still think most of our interaction was scummy to hell and back but apparently that's how he plays as town. If you want to lynch me, run with it then. But I expect you to have a case and you can expect me to rail against it to the limits of my time and patience.
If I'm wrong on someone, it's probably Rod. Given my eyes mostly glaze over his posts, and I haven't really been keeping very close track of his reads or thoughts.
Also, Zenzao is town.
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The kill points to players on the scumteam who are 1) good at rolehunting, and 2) willing to take the gamble on NOT shooting a townfirm. And honestly, that seems right up tom's or Silver's ally. ~Maybe Eco. Don't really think Zen or Rod would go for it.
I'm kind of paranoid that Shock got the Bugs Bunny reference but didn't make the Doc connection, and we're clearing him incorrectly, but. Eh. He was already a townlean for me anyways, so. I'll take it.
Like, I spent all of Day 1 trying to get people to vote him, casing him, arguing with him, etc. I've been trying to get him lynched since I replaced in. It's not my fault no one would listen.
Or maybe it is I guess.
Whatever. I'll reread in a few days after exams are over.
Anyway, I've been trying to lynch your slot with about the same amount of success as you vs. tom. Guess people just aren't interested in lynching mafia.
Vaimes
zomg
Zenzao
Rod
Eco
tom
shadow
Silver
I'm town. zomg is town. In your own little world, you're also town.
Zenzao
Rod
Eco
tom
shadow
I'm clearing Zenzao. zomg cleared the Shockslot, and I'm inclined to go with it. The mafia shot Mete0r for some reason N1, and didn't even block zomg. It's more likely they didn't know who the Doc was, and didn't catch any PR crumbs. Shockslot is likely town due to this.
That leaves three names.
Rod
tom
shadow
Your continued defense of shadow absolutely reeks in light of this.
Shock (6): shadow (#515), Rod (#519), HuntMind (#527), DoTASilver (#569), KosaMete0r (#588), ClaraZen (#723)
Eliminating yourself and your townreads narrows it down to Rod and Zenzao. Zen is town, and there's very little chance of Rod getting lynched over you/shadow/tom toDay. So you either need to case Rod/Zen, or accept that you are wrong on shadow.
Assuming he isn't your buddy and all that.
@Tom: Could you please explain in as much detail as possible why you thought Mindreaver might flip town, and why you didn't really do anything to stop it?
I haven't forgotten wagons, I just don't have time to go digging in them right now. Looking at that one, it's probably just zen. Like I've been saying. I don't know his meta but his wagon position makes it more likely him than shadow OR rodemy. Especially if it's tom/eco/x because he would have stopped his buddy from being lynched by moving to shadow right after, if I recall correctly.
rodemy
eco
vaimes
zenzao
..
.
..
.
..
.
.
..
..
.
.
.
..
shadow/silver
and silver is scum
thats kind of it really.
Short aside: Rodemy, I'm sick of your constant attack on me without any actual content. You're basically repeating "he's scum" over and over and confbiasing without actually making any real effort to look at my posts or have rational thoughts around the game state. Show your work, because you haven't really done anything for a while.
And then push from there.
the only confirmed town is zomg
So why don't we listen to zomg instead of vaimes. Vaimes, for all we know, could be powerwolfing the ***** outta toDay to work a mislynch.
For that reason, i will only listen to zomg.
Maybe when I get a chance to reread I'll see something I missed.
We might lose to the third but we all know what we have to do first
If you think it's me, fine. That sounds like a problem for later
Come on.
You say "let's only listen to zomg" but 1) being conftown doesn't make your reads correct, and 2) zomg was the one who cleared Shock in the first place, so nyeh.
Let's look at partners for Tom:
Silver: town or he and tom have the best bus ever. If silver and tom are scum together, I don't think we ever win. The only possible evidence I see against this is that despite Tom believing silver and I to be scum together, he seems slightly more eager to lynch me before silver, but a more plausible explanation would be that my town flip doesn't stop Tom's chain lynch attempt of silver anyway.
Vaimes: I don't see Vaimes as hard unaligned with Tom, but I also really don't see Vaimes as scum. His game analysis has felt real, I believe he wants to solve the game. I will reread tomorrow to see if I'm just completely out of whack.
Eco: Alone, I feel like shock's end of day 1 is more likely to have come from town!shock than scum!shock, however Tom's town read on him and then weird WIFOMY comments regarding how he does a certain thing as town and had to duplicate it as scum raise some flags between the two. I could see an Eco and tom coached shock being more able to not completely break under pressure.
Zen: He could be a partner for Tom, but with Vaimes' insistence that he's town, I'm going to basically ignore him until we actually lynch Tom, because in order for me to have a true read of my own on his meta, I need to make my way through is offsite games, and doing that when I have no desire to lynch anyone other than Tom is a potential waste of time.
Rodemy: Aside from being way more buddy buddy than I would expect from scum partners, Rodemy could be Tom's partner. He has a couple of similar reads, but inexplicable differences that he doesn't actually want to clarify at all. Regardless of how similar this is to town!Rodmey's standard play, it's scummier than most other possibilities.
_______________________________________________
So I guess that leaves me with Tom/Eco/Rodemy. I will lynch Tom today and read Zen and Vaimes tomorrow. If no one has a good argument for a team that doesn't include Tom (or silver cause I'm not voting him), I'll place my vote later today.
Did you just nyeh me!?
Well i never!
Awesome. Shadow is tunneling me again. And now he is "tired" of me always being on him
Sorry buddy, if i think yer scum, i think yer scum.
And to single me out? Not cool
Heree is tom, adamantly calling for you and silver. No flack towards him?
Wwhat about vaimes? He has me you and tom as the scum team?
I'm not the only one who thinks you are scum, and tbh i am carrying hunts (who flipped town) argument on you.
This just adds to the whole "i think he is scum" argument.
I made a whole wall. You should read it, very god stuff.
I thought i could see where silver was coming from, but alas, cannot.
I can post an entire wall again, which tbh, nobody likes, or i can just say hey, die scum.
Imma go with option 2.
As for trusting in zomg, true, his reads could be off. I might be trusting of him because he decided to protect me last night, so at least one of his reads is right.
Why don't you like zomg, vaimes? yeah he cleared shock i dont see that as bad. Do you still think eco is scum?
On today, I think there's two worlds. One of them is where the scum team is Silver/Shadow/X. This is the easy (some might say obvious) world. In the other world, these guys are Town. In this second world, the scum have probably committed to getting the last mislynch out of Silver or Shadow. Off the top of my head, this probably makes the scum team something like Vaimes/Tom/X. As much as I'd like to just take the easy route and if we lose just shrug and say "well Silver and Shadow were scummy, what can you do?", I find that often in mafia the easy way is the wrong way.
We have a lot of time today, I intend to use it to try and untangle what's going on here, even if the end result is the easy A universe.
******
To be absolutely honest, your head is on the block right now and if you're town, the game is very much in your hands. You need to try and find the time to do your reevaluation because if you don't, you'll probably be lynched by default.
To start off with, I would really like to see a summary of why you think Shadow is Town, and how the events of the last Day have affected that.
@Shadow: I'd like to see the same thing from you in reverse: a summary of why you think Silver is Town, and how recent events have impacted that read.
OK, good start. Why did you think that Mindreaver and Silver are unlikely to be scum together? Can you explain why you didn't really try and stop the Mindreaver wagon?
Rodemy, this is a dumb idea. Just because Zomg is confirmed doesn't make him more likely to be right. Why don't you engage your own brain?
i tried to move the lynch elsewhere, but i wasnt actually townreading mindreaver
and your case was pretty good tbh.
i will not accept a non-shadow/silver lynch today though.
@Eco: Deal, it might not be until tomorrow though, I'm running a board game night after work and I'll not be able to be online.
@Rodemy: I dislike that you have voted me several times for not understanding my posts, not even because you have an actual reason, so yeah, I'm tired of that. I'm also annoyed that you placed a vote down in MyLo super callously, if I get quick hammered at some point because of you're shoot first ask questions later mentality, then I'm going to be mad.
I won't, because you are scum.
Moving on from there, we got silver who needs to really reassess shadow or i'm gonna have to switch my sights a bit. I do not like how after so many town flips you have yet to change your view in him.
I like tom. He might actually be right.
As for a third its up in the air.
There is an independent scum. And with the amount of hostility i got fro. Zenzao, i think it might be him. Clara might have screwed him over and that could be why he is going for the pissy vibe.
But hey, i don't use my brain. So why listen to me, eh?
I thought you were vig tbh and seppel was doc.
That whole "i could but i couldn't be"factor really made me wonder if you were really the doc or the vig.
Seopels interactions with you made me think you were bug calling for a doc.
Now that seppel flipped vig i know you are the doc
Anyway. Off to work.
I'm not sure you actually did. You said you'd have to reread in #1020 but then you never did. You made passing references but didn't substantiate any of them. This is very concerning to me.
Why did it matter how good my case was if the result didn't fit in with your worldview? Shouldn't you have either challenged my case or tried to reevaluate your world view?
Anyway. The summary of my shadow read is that he had a few pure-sounding posts on D1, I think Huntz' case on him was bad to begin with, and I don't think he's scum with tom. Could I be wrong on him? Sure. I could be. I guess in that world, scum!tom wanted to lynch me first to soft clear his buddy, or if his buddy gets lynched guarantee he can mislynch me after. But it seems more likely he's been counting on our so-called "independent scumminess" to get us both lynched. Even though the "case" appears to be that we're only specifically scum together and not separately which doesn't even make sense at this point because I don't even think we have a credible third. Vaimes is trying to say it's tom.
I don't think shadow's done anything in the last Day or so to change that evaluation but when I get a chance I'll look at it again and see if something jumps out at me.
Why is it more likely shadow than tom? Why are you now creating a narrative that I'm not "reevaluating" when no one else seems to be either? What makes my failure to reevaluate worse than yours, or Vaimes', or tom's? Are you even trying to view the game through my reads or are you just trying to pressure me into flipping on shadow?
So I made one.
Day 1
Shockwave07 - AtheistGod
Silvercrys3467 - Seppel
AtheistGod - Shockwave07, Mindreaver, Silvercrys3467, zomgarcwind, ZenzaoDLP, shadowlancerx, Mete0rShower
shadowlancerx - Rodemy, tomsloger, Vaimes
Day 2
Mindreaver - Eco, Seppel, Zen, Silver, Rodemy, Zomg
Seppel - Mindreaver
Shadow - Tom
Tom - Shadow
Not Voting - Vaimes
First observation, that's a lot of Townies on both lynches. Makes sense that the scum would be happy to watch both happen since they didn't really need to do anything to help them along. Silver stands out as being in the middle of both, and if Shadow is scum as well, either Zen or Rodemy could be the last buddy (of the two I'd lean Zen since I'm expect scum to be more likely to end the day pushing the CFD lynch rather than sit on a buddy). Looking from the other side, on both Days Tom and Vaimes weren't on the main wagon, which again would probably leave Zenzao as the last buddy (since 3 scum on Shadow D1 is far-fetched).
So if it's Silver/Shadow/{Rodemy/Zen}, scum have been bandwagoning aggressively making sure both Town lynches go through.
If it's Tom/Vaimes/Zen then one of them has been pushing the Town wagons while the other two just focus on Shadow without rocking the boat.
Imma use this later for my own analysis. Thanks eco!
Not sure why the would do that as buddies.
But they're definitely not scum together so... nailed it
And the quality of your case is relevant because I had nothing but my worldview saying it was wrong. That does not a refutation make.
Mind was in the PoE and noshowed eod.
It wasn't a bad lynch. Just not the best one.
And also he was town.
Day 1
Shockwave07 - AtheistGod
Silvercrys3467 - Seppel
AtheistGod - Shockwave07, Mindreaver, Silvercrys3467, zomgarcwind, ZenzaoDLP, shadowlancerx
Mete0rShower
shadowlancerx - Rodemy, tomsloger, Vaimes
Day 2
Mindreaver -Eco, Seppel, Zen, Silver, Rodemy, Zomg
Seppel - Mindreaver
Shadow - Tom
Tom - Shadow
Not Voting - Vaimes
So silver zen and Shock/eco are on both wagons. Shadow votes tom (a strong town read in my opinion) d2, maybe to distance himself from his buddies?
I'm not seeing eco as scum right now.
So
Shadow
Silver
Zen.
Except why would all three jump on the wagon d1?
That leaves vaimes. On shadow d1.
And no vote d2.
I call upon the mighty fingah o' susspisshon.
The last one.
I want a scum flip, god damnit.
@Rod, I've briefly entertained the same notion that you noticed regarding Vaimes. His lack of a vote yesterDay is a bit troubling, but I'm not exactly looking too hard at him as he's kind of the only anchor I have in this game at the moment(though if he's scum, that also fits with town-siding me so hard, and I find it a bit hard to believe that he remembered my single scum meta from a game years ago when he couldn't even remember Mimefia just a few months back).
I think you're confusing me with tom.
And I don't want you to get lynched, since it's MyLo and I think other people are much more likely to be scum than you.
---
Also ptap, I'm taking my last final exam today. o/
HPM. My QT, post-modkill discussion. Probably semantics. Don't really care - suicidal thoughts dancing in my head like sugar plums this oh so wonderful and joyous time of the year contending with toxic relatives. Not going to act on them, but oh how the brief nihilism of it gets me through the day(fun fact: I'd make a terrific Sith with how much hatred burns inside my heart for some of these people after repetitive years).
Good luck on your exam.
We either lynch scum toDay or its game over. Frankly I'll be happy either way.
It would really, really help me out if you could take a hard look at Vaimes. I'd like to see some proper behavioural analysis rather then your current "Town because I know him" read.
All I can tell you right now is that he isn't playing in a way I can recognize in either direction. As scum in Narutomafia I don't remember him making a big presence in the first few days. We CFD'd him at the last second and that essentially put the nail in the coffin as Kalas finally tried souping everyone in a last hurrah and failed, and after that it was a matter of crumb unveiling to catch Typhon. And to be fair with regards to Mimefia where he was town, I mostly zoned out after my N1 NK and skimmed the thread intermittently hoping to see Newcomb and Fonti caught out. If you want you can check his posts in both threads here(Narutomafia, Mimefia). I may do a reread of both games myself to get out of my own head on Vaimes but it'll be a couple of days off.
Give me til tomorrow eve. I gotta get on my laptop. I'll see what i can find in this game.
If people want to meta me, you'd have better luck checking out my games here. Since I've been every alignment on MTGS, and my play is pretty different on my homesite.
Zen, I can link you to some of my games here if you have the time. Comparing me to my DLP self is kinda pointless.
but also pretty sure im wrong about someone.
so theres that.