Guys, I just reread Kosa's death flip, we don't have a vig shot hidden somewhere. The way it's worded means that Kosa himself would have the vig shot, and as we know he didn't use it, that means it's very likely someone has a 1 shot jailkeeper ability. His flip is on page 26, too lazy to quote it from mobile.
Guys, I just reread Kosa's death flip, we don't have a vig shot hidden somewhere. The way it's worded means that Kosa himself would have the vig shot, and as we know he didn't use it, that means it's very likely someone has a 1 shot jailkeeper ability. His flip is on page 26, too lazy to quote it from mobile.
I don't think so, they're all worded that way (as if the person using it is Kosa). Kosa had to pass the inventions at night, I'm pretty sure, they're all part of his Mad Scientist's Inventions ability.
Which means he either passed the vig shot or the jailkeeper, and whoever has it isn't claiming it.
Or he passed nothing/his death prevented him from passing/he was redirected to scum.
I think what he was saying in his legacy post is that he passed the Bio-Chip Scanner to Vaimes on N1, and if Vaimes turns up dead he wants to kill GJ because he thought GJ was the rolecop. He must have intended to pass the vig shot on N2 and wanted the vig to kill GJ if Vaimes died (because that would mean that the scum team found out Vaimes had the 1-shot lie detector).
So the questions I have are:
Why did Kosa think GJ was the role cop? If he was crumbing it I totally missed it.
Who did Kosa pass to on N2? Did it succeed or fail?
Also, what happened to Ghosting targeting zomg? Did that ever get straightened out? Ghosting said he tried to unlock zomg on N2 but zomg said he didn't get unlocked. And the redirector claimed they redirected Proph to GJ (confirmed by both).
DV gut list before any actual work is done.
scarbo
Jackrito
INeedANewName
Outside chance of Mindreaver/GJ/Someone else
That last little round made me buy zomgarcwind claim.
Can anyone give us a nice flow chart of votes? I thought someone said they were going to do that if not I'll do that this week. We got some time and I think we are all on board with an Innan lynch at this point so lets just use today for our advantage and take it to the last minute. CFD should give us some nice indicators.
There's really no reason for me to redirect at this point, except yes if someone says they'll vig me, but clearly that's not going to happen having claimed redirector.
Also I don't think vig shots should be majority-decided or announced. That's what lynching is. And it doesn't help us at all to understand the motivation of the vig.
And we should hang off on contacting kosa until after/if there is a vig kill and there's something more specific we can ask of greater use. We don't even know for sure if he gave it away.
Having an invention that acts as a vigshot =/= Vig
If this were a closed setup with a Vig, then yeah sure, let them do their thing.
But I think treating the vigshot invention as an extra lynch, publicly voted on, is the way to go, since, y'know. The scumteam might have it.
One of the problems with not using the death speaker ability right away is giving the scum more time. As it stands, they have a couple of high priority targets for their night kill, and waiting on using an ability that should lower our PoE even more just gives them a chance to prioritize other players for kills.
yeah, not following your reasoning here. moreover, walk me through your silver town-clear?
scarbo, walk me through your zomgarcwind read as if I was a five year old.
Because early on Day 1, you said:
Quote from scarbo »
Unvote
Zomg's preoccupation with no-lynching seems more noob than scummy. And the way he treated Proph is totally town- "look if he comes back and says X, we lynch him," as if it hadn't occurred to him that Proph could lie.
Quote from scarbo »
Cythare, Hunt, zomg, and tom are in descending order of solid town
And now you have him as one of your top three scummiest reads. Explain your progression here?
scarbo, walk me through your zomgarcwind read as if I was a five year old.
Because early on Day 1, you said:
Quote from scarbo »
Unvote
Zomg's preoccupation with no-lynching seems more noob than scummy. And the way he treated Proph is totally town- "look if he comes back and says X, we lynch him," as if it hadn't occurred to him that Proph could lie.
Quote from scarbo »
Cythare, Hunt, zomg, and tom are in descending order of solid town
And now you have him as one of your top three scummiest reads. Explain your progression here?
And now you have him as one of your top three scummiest reads. Explain your progression here?
Why has my read changed from early in day 1 to well into day 3? well:
He's hardly done anything except tunnel me, so this sudden town read he has feels disingenuous (for what? because I redirected you to GJ?). And I don't buy his hopping onto Cythare. It sounded like he knew it was a mislynch all along.
@shadow: Was your 1-shot ability unlocked? Because if not that makes Mindreaver the only claimed true VT.
On the three I want lynched most I still think INNAN is the best option since the way they claimed was a lot worse then everyone else and delay looks bad this is of course added with my reasons from before.
After that these are lesser scum reads and are consensus but they are ones who stand out most Scarbo and Mind, Scarbo recent scum list stands out as others have pointed out since it has a person they were townreading and they have been a suspect for a while. I don't really have a solid reason on mind so would lynch the other 2 before them. Everyone else I am townreading atm though so it is more of a matter of POE.
After our recent interactions, how can you possibly make the case that we're both scum?
Anyway, I'd rather take down scarbo, and have INNN target GJ, GJ target INNN, and see what shakes out (Silver's plan). I'm pretty convinced on INNN and Scarbo, but I have my suspicions of GJ and Silver, so I this plan has enough moving parts that something interesting should come out of it tonight.
But if other people feel differently, just want to do INNN and see what tomorrow brings, I'm fine with that too.
As far as a third. I'm at a genuine loss. Like I've said, there is a lot of be suspicious of in the townclears thus far, the no-pushback on the mass claim, etc. I guess if I had to name a third, I'd go Proph/Ghosting. Nothing particularly scummy, but it would sort out part of the game that doesn't share our wincon. I doubt we get to this point though.
And the elephant in the room, for my reads really, is myself as a lynch option. I'd like to see more people voicing opinions on me that contain actual analysis on what it would mean if I flip town/scum. And maybe that's not possible to do without seeing the wagon. Or at least give better reasons. I suspect that some of my biggest critics early on, as starting to come around. But maybe I'm totally wrong and I'm not being as transparent as I think I am.
But a ton of redirects. Could those actually redirect a factional kill? I have no idea how that works.
Plus, we don't really know a lot of the triggered abilities are.
But yeah, I hear you. It does sound pretty lopsided. Even taking into account no SK, and the only vig seems to need an item and 2 days to work. There just isn't a lot of killing power at night.
Like, Bodyguard makes the most sense as a protective role because the scum doesn't lose their kill if he protects a strong role, it just gets, well, redirected. So it's better for games with low killing power.
And if scarbo is scum (like Mindreaver is proposing) we only have D_V's duelist ability for town redirects. Ghosting can force people who target him to target someone else instead, but he's not a member of the town and can't use it to protect other players anyway. tom's partial ascetic doesn't protect him from NK (obviously) and Kosa's jailkeeper is 1-shot and has to be passed to someone else first.
In fact. I think I just want to lynch scarbo. Between his role, PoE, and his obsession with neutral hunting, I just... don't think he's town.
vote: scarbo
Lynch scarbo, then GJ and NewName can target each other with little interference.
Unless Kosa passed the jailkeeper item, I guess, or there's another redirector/roleblocker hiding somewhere (as might be implied by zomg's ability not being unlocked.)
One of the problems with not using the death speaker ability right away is giving the scum more time. As it stands, they have a couple of high priority targets for their night kill, and waiting on using an ability that should lower our PoE even more just gives them a chance to prioritize other players for kills.
yeah, not following your reasoning here. moreover, walk me through your silver town-clear?
So my thought process for having Jack use his ability sooner rather than later is spreading out potential Mafia targets. It multiple people all use power abilities that have a chance to help town catch scum, then scum has to prioritize who they want to target. Whereas if one person waits for the next night, scum can order their kills to prevent info from each person as they go.
My clear of Silver is probably a little bit stronger than it should be, basically his direct help toward GJ (who is towncleared to me) and the openness of it shows a very pro town perspective. I know the argument could be made for WIFOM, but it's very unnecessary WIFOM, as silver could have quietly targeted someone he was aligned with if he was scum, then claim he targeted a vanilla or someone who the ability failed with.
I'll concede that he is still possible scum, but not nearly as likely as the other options I listed.
I feel your [Scarbo] town due to the way the massclaim worked with shadows info, however if either of you turn scum the other is definitely scum. So while I would love to lynch Shadow to test that theory (so incase you are town we keep our good PR) Im not down to mislynch just to prove a theory that has a higher likelihood of you both just being town. Im hoping this just works itself out in the upcoming days/nights
I'd be very careful with your clear here, all my ability did was prove that Scarbo was honest about his ability, not that he was in any way town. I still have Scarbo in my PoE, he just doesn't make a bunch of sense as a scum partner with several of my other reads. If I eat a night kill, DO NOT clear Scarbo immediately. Yes, he might be town, but base that off of better reasons.
oh good, a lot of my town read on you had to do with thinking you were noobtown
but then again I forgot about that cryptoclaim...
you do realize though that shadow confirming that I redirected proph to GJ really doesn't clear me? I mean I've explained my motivation for doing so, but that course of action would still make sense if I were scum and saw GJ as a threat wouldn't it? That you've so suddenly dropped your bloodlust for my lynch for no apparent reason is bizarre.
Alright, can we come back to why that was the easiest mass claim ever? No opposition, no real stalling... just... easy
Yeah my current idea is and I won't be able to make this concrete until the week and I get some time to actually read the thread is that one of the Mafia was gone IE Innan. Leaving us with 2 - 3 left?
I'm pretty certain ZOMG is scum as well.
Finally, I'm fairly certain there is a scum sitting with a role that is typically town using it to clear themselves coupled with some good play.
GJ and you come to mind for this role. But there are others as well.
So in my mind what happened was mass claim proposed one-two afk, the better embedded one says sure because they know their role looks good and so the other just goes along with it and then claims something like Zomg did.
Yup, this was where my mind was headed too. They must have felt safe in their claims.
I am at Jackrito, Zomg, and a third. I don't see Scarbo's tunneling on neutrals as scummy. It's more too scummy to be scum. Mind, Vaimes and GJ are still solidly town to me. I think INANN is probably the one protective role we got, and no, I'm not counting ascetic as protective.
??? - 1 shot message, reveals his alignment to the player who receives it
??? - triggers on No Lynch
Night 1 - sent tomsloger a message
This would be the reason. I am having trouble understanding how this worked out. The scum team took a shot in the dark and nailed the ONE person you were going to reveal your alignment to this game? Not to mention you used the (supposed) ONLY mason shot night one, but that's a playstyle difference, not alignment indicative. But we are to believe that this HIGHLY unlikely result is how it went down?
But now you don't wanna get lynched because "Jackrito can confirm me, guys!" Add in that Jackrito reneged on what he first said, which was "I can talk to any dead." Correct me if I am wrong or misread something, but I believe his story is "I can only talk to the LAST dead guy." Again, highly suspect.
Then, if you follow me down the design path... Why would the mod put a ONE shot mason in a game like this... and also a weird Medium role? For THIS VERY circumstance? The probability alone of things going down this way is staggering. I don't see the point of a medium otherwise. It doesn't get us any information, or at least, not enough to devote a PR to it. I just don't believe that Bur would do that.
But, modgaming aside. I think occam's razor simply tells us that you are lying scum, caught in a mass claim that you had to go through otherwise risk looking poorly.
Not even sure I can talk to Kosa since it says last dead town so that would mean whoever is lynched today so the only way I could talk to Kosa if they is no lynch which is less then ideal. Unless we can be sure they is a scum lynched today.
Uh, did you forget which side you're on
There is no way I'm no-lynching today. What a weird ability, that will basically fail all the time. Gosh. How can we be "sure" there is a scum lynch today? If they confess again?
If possible, you need to talk to Kosa. Because if we kill scum and you survive, but didn't contact him, you're not going to live very long.
@Huntz:
If we're gonna modgame, we should look at the set-up as a whole. Not cherry pick abilities and say "those look strange, I don't think Bur would ever use those."
I'm pretty sure the reason there are some unusual one-shot abilities in the game is so my ability isn't potentially useless. I only get one shot for the whole game, I believe, so wasting it would feel pretty bad. There's already tom, cythare, shadow, and Mindreaver who it wouldn't benefit until they've been unlocked.
Like, you think those two abilities are "weird" but a 1-shot time-traveling watcher isn't?
Or a partial ascetic who can only be affected by women?
An inventor with a lie detector?
This isn't a game with normal roles.
I still think we need to lynch scarbo-the-redirector and sort NewName/GJ tomorrow.
Like when I played mafia there was no RVS, in fact most of the time if you voted on the first page of the thread at all you got policy lynched, Instead we would FoS:Scarbo ourselves to death before the game got started. Also Crypto was allowed in a good portion of games and was a very solid first day move for the town to force Crypto Claims especiallly if the mafia did not have chat night0 to plan.
So honestly I'd say the mafia I grew up playing and the mafia that has evolved into today are two seperate beasts. You can look at me as this is my 51st game, but my 1st game in over 10 years
You didn't crypto claim until day two, but say that day one is a solid town move. Considering you hadn't known it was against the rules, why did you wait?
Point blank, I think Scarbo is the better lynch on roles because I don't believe there are two redirect roles for the town and no protective roles, but his play has been pretty good.
I literally do not remember why scarbo is town other than the WiFOMy "he's pushing a neutral and he should know it looks bad, therefore, it makes him town!"
Him forgetting about the cryptoclaiming thing of zomg's is also
At this point, I would rather lynch INANN as he has almost zero contribution, the fact that he claims he didn't even use his ability on either night is concerning to me, because either he really didn't, and it's like we don't even have a protective role; or he's scum and used it on his scum buddies. Vote INANN
unvote the more I think about it, I want to see the Mindreaver PBPA, and I'd like to see what GJ can return on INANN if he's willing to target him tonight, and if INANN agrees to bodyguard GJ. I really need INANN to agree to this plan, or try and show any presence in this game.
@Hunt I notice you put Mind in your "still solidly town pile" but how did he get there? You had him in your probably scum team the last time you did a T/S list, what changed?
Okay, I got confused for a bit, because I thought that NewName's inherent ability doesn't activate until Day 4, but that's his /latent/ ability.
So he targeted no one because ???.
There is no reason NOT to BG someone. Ever. And I'm pretty sure at this point he's just lurking out the Day (again) and hoping to survive while giving away as little as possible.
He might be busy as hell. In which case, let us know and give an estimate when you'll be back.
He might be blowing us off.
Or he might be caught scum and just figures we won't kill him if he doesn't say much.
Those are my thoughts. I'm not sure he's got a ton of new posts for my to look at since my pbpa. In all, he might be a bodyguard... but if he is, this level of information is unacceptable; also he needs to respond to comments about how he's targeted so far.
Let's begin with Mindreaver's focus on Proph. Before I'm accused of calling the kettle black, there's a big difference between my focus on ghosting and this. Namely, I thought ghosting was lying scum.
So, are we just ignoring the whole Proph "I wish I was town" thing? I know it's probably some hare-brained scheme, and I'd love to give a better reaction, but
On the subject of the proph claim, here is my opinion:
1) Proph is unlikely to be lying, unless he's scum. I've seen him burned badly by lying about his role (as town I might add). I don't think he's got the stomach to try it again, as a neutral/town player. As scum, he might lie, but honestly I'm at a loss as to figure out why. Like is his master plan to get lynched? Easier ways to do that... ask Fable. And if he just wants to eventually destroy power roles... he should have kept his mouth shut.
2) This is a dangerous role to have around. That alone makes me think not-scum. Because it puts any future claim in danger, and he just told us all about it. We might have to take him out at some point, if we out a power role of significance (like a cop), since his role doesn't kill, we'd have to roleblock him (which we don't even know we can). So outing himself might very well end up a death sentence.
3) There is no reason to kill him today, unless we stall like crazy toward a deadline. I'd rather have him gone, because of #2, than a no-lynch but that's pretty much the only scenario.
4) The tool you throw away today, is the dagger at your throat tomorrow. He's a tool. We use him. That's how it works. Maybe we win together, or maybe he's too dangerous to live. But I don't think we kill him today, and lose the chance to actually kill scum.
He begins by basically stating he knows Proph isn't scum and proceeds to give reasons we should be worried and eventually lynch him. *This* is neutral-hunting scum mentality.
He proceeds to focus on mechanics until going after GJ but then for some reason he switches to kosa. Then he changes his tune on Proph:
First, I also happen to believe proph. Also, I happen to believe ghosting as well. If his role is the opposite, it means he's essentially Anti-Vanillafying people. That doesn't seem like a scum ability. I don't see why both roles can't exist as claimed. It also doesn't seem like a hard thing to prove. Finally doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would hang around for long, if it wasn't true.
So why are we willing to give proph the benefit of the doubt here, and not ghosting? Because of playstyle? I'm not understanding what the argument is. Are we afraid that ghosting is lying to... what exactly? I don't understand what his motive could be. So lets give him a small pool of targets, and see what happens. Maybe he eats a scum-side roleblock (or a NK), but that's pretty good for us too.
Love this version of you. Can't quite decide if we are mindmelding because you're scum, or just that we aren't oil and water like D1 of star trek. In any case, Unvote. Very satisfactory post.
Sorry guys, I'm just bad. No excuse. Other games, work busy, kid, etc etc.
Thoughts:
Still getting a bad vibe from Silver.
Love GJ right now. Never lynching him. Bringing up my absence as a scum tactic like that, when there are so many other juicy targets, is just not-scum. Town trying to figure it out.
Tom is more engaged then I've ever seen him. I mean, no robot voice/gifs/silly posts. He's either the towniest, or trying some new tricks.
omg i set of my fire alarm. sec
Now there's a weird scum read on silver, followed up with
Cause it makes you look town. Take that WIFOM right back
Honestly Silver, I think my suspicion is the very high bar you've set for yourself (if anyone wants to see what I'm talking about go find where he replaced in for goldeneye, it's night and day). I'm jut not "dazzled". It's probably not fair, but it's the feeling I get reading you.
But do I want you dead over inactives (that's right kettle, you're black!)? No
Do I think we get a whole lot of interaction to look at with your flip? Probably not more than DV or Kosa
and yet still no vote on silver. We do however get a vote on...
It's a better shot than nothing, and I didn't like that new name wagon.
I'm rather null on him tbh. The post restriction seems super fake (really? Hashtag restriction? Have to vote restriction?) But I didn't necessarily think it was alignment indicative.
YoLo
Ghosting feel free to target me, I'm probably super powerful.
Cythare! about whom he has said exactly nothing up to this point
Cythere is still a fine lynch. I could go Shockwave, but that's mostly because he seems burned out and I'd rather get rid of a perpetual question mark than no lynch. INNN I will vote if it's 11:58 and we're a vote away. Otherwise, I like Cythere and Shock better.
Still not sure why he would be OK with lynching Cythare. The interesting bit is his referencing shockwave, also for the first or second time. This comes after there was some talk about shifting wagons to shockwave for his inactivity. The thing is though that silver was spearheading that wagon, followed by Proph. So why else would Mindreaver be willing to follow is top scum read onto Shockwave's wagon?
GJ picks up on something at the beginning of Day 2 that apparently triggers him.
You didn't consider all that you just knew I wasn't targeted.
Straight up, I didn't say this. I said your ego was a casualty because Tom is on the ground instead of you. The rest of all this is all you dude. House of ******* cards. I'm ******* done with you. If you think that's just scum caving, lynch me, and at least I won't have to deal with your attitude.
(on a side note, shadow's response to this is really weird:
You didn't consider all that you just knew I wasn't targeted.
Straight up, I didn't say this. I said your ego was a casualty because Tom is on the ground instead of you. The rest of all this is all you dude. House of ******* cards. I'm ******* done with you. If you think that's just scum caving, lynch me, and at least I won't have to deal with your attitude.
So far GJ is the only one pushing you, and he's been doing this to people all game. Note that he can't just unilaterally lynch you, I wouldn't let it bother you that much. I'm pretty sure that everyone will come under his crosshairs at some point.
)
After INANN's wagon started to grow plump, we get a random PBPA and a nice opportunistic vote on INANN. There's some more trashposts until he finds my scum slip and gets really proud of himself. We've already addressed this though, but let's just put it all in one place for the record.
@ghosting: do I have to beg for you win con? I know you're cooperating now, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for it to be advantageous for you to side with scum. Imagine a lylo situation where the only unlocked person was town. :|
K, so, I'm having a reaalllly good time tonight. This response is gonna be the most epic of the whole thread.
First, a scenario that you're painting, doesn't exist. Know why? Because if we believe in ghosting's neutrality, he doesn't know the scumteam either. Right? So he can't "target scum" and he can't "target town" either. He has no idea. The ONLY thing that ghosting can do, is literally target those least likely to be mafia killed or lynched. That means he can't go for top scumreads, nor top townreads. That's his criteria, outside maybe helping us out if we request a certain person, is just how long they will be in the game. BTW this is proph's targeting motivation as well.
No, ghosting doesn't know. I think, that you are projecting your own knowledge of who is town and who is scum onto him. It only makes sense that you would consider the way in which to use the power would include knowledge you possess now.
mic drop
#legitGANGSTA
#legalizeit
Shadow's already tried to correct you, but you're either intentionally misconstruing what I said or know something the rest of us don't.
In a lylo situation - let's imagine 2 scum (both unlocked), ghosting, and 2 town (one unlocked, one not). Since the mass claim, it's not unreasonable to assume it's public knowledge who's unlocked and who's not, especially since ghosting knows whom he's targeted. In this situation the scum know it's 2-2-1. All they have to do is claim, and have ghosting hammer on the locked town, leaving only unlocked players alive and the game over for a scum victory. Ghosting's been hinting that his win con is unlocking every living player. But you could have figured this all out.
Vote: mindreaver
That's the worry? Seems like a perfect storm to me. You do get that right? That the only scenarios are lylo with a perfect setup, and a nuetral that doesn't share the town wincon (whatever it is). That there is no reason why Ghosting (or Proph) would be (should be) in that situation. It's certainly not justification for why he needs to provide a wincon right now. Especially when we all *kinda* know what it is already. I think if the game gets down to 9 or 8 players, you start killing neutrals, if you're so worried.
Yeah, interesting that shadow provided you an out, and you don't have to talk about how you were afraid that ghosting would be targeting scum, the way DV argued. My point is that you know the scum team, and therefore if you had Ghosting's ability, you'd naturally want to "play optimally" by targeting scum (who won't be nightkilled). But you completely overlooked that YOU have information a NEUTRAL player wouldn't. Address that, not your pie-in-the-sky scenario.
the icing on the cake is trying to link shadow and me. I try to make sure I understand his argument...
I give my reason for wanting to know ghosting's win condition.
You misconstrue it to look like I was talking about night actions.
Shadow states what I obviously meant.
I clarify exactly what I meant: one conceivable situation where town loses but ghosting wins.
You dismiss that one conceivable situation, misconstruing it as the only possible situation where town loses but ghosting wins, arrived upon only because ghosting knows the scum team (because according to you I'm projecting there). Here's where it gets confusing for me.
Then you say shadow was coming to my rescue to cover my scumslip and ask that I clarify how I thought ghosting would know how to target only scum?
Did I get all that right?
Certainly an excellent strawman. If you're not following me still, after my last few posts. Let me know.
So there's no real interest in scumhunting. He says as much when he finally decides to vote me:
But that isn't now. And knowing a specific wincon (or in this case, harping on and on about specific wording of such condition), is irrelevant. It also wasn't what I was saying. I do believe there was a scumslip by scarbo, when he was talking about how Ghosting should play. He's going to target scum and win is different than he's going to vote for people he hasn't unlocked. It shows that scarbo could target scum VS town.
Unvote, Vote Scarbo
For the scumslip. If I"m off base, I'm off base. But I think that was legitimate. This is with the caveat that I want him sorted overnight by GJ, and we work out well in advance exactly what should be happening with his night actions.
And again he continues to misconstrue my hypothetical situation: that by randomly choosing unlocked targets, ghosting could find himself with an unlocked scum, a locked town, and side with scum. I don't know if he's doubling down on his super-cocky post or is just grasping at straws that hard. Filler posts follow until this gem.
Not even sure I can talk to Kosa since it says last dead town so that would mean whoever is lynched today so the only way I could talk to Kosa if they is no lynch which is less then ideal. Unless we can be sure they is a scum lynched today.
Uh, did you forget which side you're on
First of all, jack clearly meant 'there,' so the whole thing is really just par for the course. My guess as to why he didn't pursue it: either jack is a scum buddy or there's no reason to get off a growing wagon.
What I noticed most was the extreme density interactions: lots with GJ, silver, shadow, proph, and ghosting and virtually none with anyone else unless he decided to vote them. A scum flip would support town!-GJ, -silver, and -shadow. Given his lack of interaction with shock, it wouldn't surprise me if scum buddies were other players he's largely ignored: namely jack and zomg.
A scum flip would support town!-GJ, -silver, and -shadow. Given his lack of interaction with shock, it wouldn't surprise me if scum buddies were other players he's largely ignored: namely jack and zomg.
I'll respond to the rest later when I have more time/scotch. But what is your opinion if I flip town? What would that mean? Have you considered it?
Okay, I got confused for a bit, because I thought that NewName's inherent ability doesn't activate until Day 4, but that's his /latent/ ability.
So he targeted no one because ???.
There is no reason NOT to BG someone. Ever. And I'm pretty sure at this point he's just lurking out the Day (again) and hoping to survive while giving away as little as possible.
If this is true, I don't see how he essentially isn't just confirmed scum.
I am just going to pull the trigger. NO MORE SLANKERS IN MY HOUSE
Vote INANN
What was it that changed your mind on Mindreaver?
He had been doing better. I liked his case earlier. Either way,I am willing to table him. I skimmed skatbo's pay, I'll read it with a more clear mind later.
Though he said right after that he's been busy, so maybe he just missed all the night phases...?
Ok, if he's lying scum, where are the protectives? tom's ability doesn't block factional kills. Kosa's jail keeper was one-shot. D_V has to target the person performing the NK, not the target of the NK (almost worthless). I guess scarbo's bus driver sort-of counts...
I guess scarbo could be town if NewName is scum, and NewName could be the other roleblocker or something.
Or Ghosting is lying scum and Vaimes is in on it with him...?
I only say this because we don't have anyone else that could block Ghosting. And if there's no other roleblocker, either zomg or Ghosting is lying, and if Ghosting is lying Vaimes is in on it (since he confirmed Ghosting).
Plus it's extremely unlikely that all of the investigative roles are town. Role cop, tracker, 1-shot super watcher? All town aligned? Plus Kosa's lie detector? Highly unlikely.
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StaffWhich means he either passed the vig shot or the jailkeeper, and whoever has it isn't claiming it.
Or he passed nothing/his death prevented him from passing/he was redirected to scum.
I think what he was saying in his legacy post is that he passed the Bio-Chip Scanner to Vaimes on N1, and if Vaimes turns up dead he wants to kill GJ because he thought GJ was the rolecop. He must have intended to pass the vig shot on N2 and wanted the vig to kill GJ if Vaimes died (because that would mean that the scum team found out Vaimes had the 1-shot lie detector).
So the questions I have are:
Why did Kosa think GJ was the role cop? If he was crumbing it I totally missed it.
Who did Kosa pass to on N2? Did it succeed or fail?
Also, what happened to Ghosting targeting zomg? Did that ever get straightened out? Ghosting said he tried to unlock zomg on N2 but zomg said he didn't get unlocked. And the redirector claimed they redirected Proph to GJ (confirmed by both).
scarbo
Jackrito
INeedANewName
Outside chance of Mindreaver/GJ/Someone else
That last little round made me buy zomgarcwind claim.
Can anyone give us a nice flow chart of votes? I thought someone said they were going to do that if not I'll do that this week. We got some time and I think we are all on board with an Innan lynch at this point so lets just use today for our advantage and take it to the last minute. CFD should give us some nice indicators.
If this were a closed setup with a Vig, then yeah sure, let them do their thing.
But I think treating the vigshot invention as an extra lynch, publicly voted on, is the way to go, since, y'know. The scumteam might have it.
Possible that it's not even out there, but eh.
yeah, not following your reasoning here. moreover, walk me through your silver town-clear?
top 3 scum reads:
mindreaver
jackrito
zomg
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Curse PremiumBecause early on Day 1, you said:
And now you have him as one of your top three scummiest reads. Explain your progression here?
Wait can I do this?
I'm going to hedge a realllly big guess here.
Because scum make up reads?
Why has my read changed from early in day 1 to well into day 3? well:
He's hardly done anything except tunnel me, so this sudden town read he has feels disingenuous (for what? because I redirected you to GJ?). And I don't buy his hopping onto Cythare. It sounded like he knew it was a mislynch all along.
@shadow: Was your 1-shot ability unlocked? Because if not that makes Mindreaver the only claimed true VT.
After our recent interactions, how can you possibly make the case that we're both scum?
And what makes you think MR is scum?
Anyway, I'd rather take down scarbo, and have INNN target GJ, GJ target INNN, and see what shakes out (Silver's plan). I'm pretty convinced on INNN and Scarbo, but I have my suspicions of GJ and Silver, so I this plan has enough moving parts that something interesting should come out of it tonight.
But if other people feel differently, just want to do INNN and see what tomorrow brings, I'm fine with that too.
As far as a third. I'm at a genuine loss. Like I've said, there is a lot of be suspicious of in the townclears thus far, the no-pushback on the mass claim, etc. I guess if I had to name a third, I'd go Proph/Ghosting. Nothing particularly scummy, but it would sort out part of the game that doesn't share our wincon. I doubt we get to this point though.
And the elephant in the room, for my reads really, is myself as a lynch option. I'd like to see more people voicing opinions on me that contain actual analysis on what it would mean if I flip town/scum. And maybe that's not possible to do without seeing the wagon. Or at least give better reasons. I suspect that some of my biggest critics early on, as starting to come around. But maybe I'm totally wrong and I'm not being as transparent as I think I am.
Unless I am doing reading wrong.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Plus, we don't really know a lot of the triggered abilities are.
But yeah, I hear you. It does sound pretty lopsided. Even taking into account no SK, and the only vig seems to need an item and 2 days to work. There just isn't a lot of killing power at night.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Like, Bodyguard makes the most sense as a protective role because the scum doesn't lose their kill if he protects a strong role, it just gets, well, redirected. So it's better for games with low killing power.
And if scarbo is scum (like Mindreaver is proposing) we only have D_V's duelist ability for town redirects. Ghosting can force people who target him to target someone else instead, but he's not a member of the town and can't use it to protect other players anyway. tom's partial ascetic doesn't protect him from NK (obviously) and Kosa's jailkeeper is 1-shot and has to be passed to someone else first.
In fact. I think I just want to lynch scarbo. Between his role, PoE, and his obsession with neutral hunting, I just... don't think he's town.
vote: scarbo
Lynch scarbo, then GJ and NewName can target each other with little interference.
Unless Kosa passed the jailkeeper item, I guess, or there's another redirector/roleblocker hiding somewhere (as might be implied by zomg's ability not being unlocked.)
But I think that's the best plan.
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StaffSo my thought process for having Jack use his ability sooner rather than later is spreading out potential Mafia targets. It multiple people all use power abilities that have a chance to help town catch scum, then scum has to prioritize who they want to target. Whereas if one person waits for the next night, scum can order their kills to prevent info from each person as they go.
My clear of Silver is probably a little bit stronger than it should be, basically his direct help toward GJ (who is towncleared to me) and the openness of it shows a very pro town perspective. I know the argument could be made for WIFOM, but it's very unnecessary WIFOM, as silver could have quietly targeted someone he was aligned with if he was scum, then claim he targeted a vanilla or someone who the ability failed with.
I'll concede that he is still possible scum, but not nearly as likely as the other options I listed.
Yes, it unlocked when Tom died, I was true vanilla day/night 1.
I'd be very careful with your clear here, all my ability did was prove that Scarbo was honest about his ability, not that he was in any way town. I still have Scarbo in my PoE, he just doesn't make a bunch of sense as a scum partner with several of my other reads. If I eat a night kill, DO NOT clear Scarbo immediately. Yes, he might be town, but base that off of better reasons.
but then again I forgot about that cryptoclaim...
you do realize though that shadow confirming that I redirected proph to GJ really doesn't clear me? I mean I've explained my motivation for doing so, but that course of action would still make sense if I were scum and saw GJ as a threat wouldn't it? That you've so suddenly dropped your bloodlust for my lynch for no apparent reason is bizarre.
I stand by my scum groupings and am fairly confident we have scum among them.
Anyone have ideas on who I should unlock tonight?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Yup, this was where my mind was headed too. They must have felt safe in their claims.
I am at Jackrito, Zomg, and a third. I don't see Scarbo's tunneling on neutrals as scummy. It's more too scummy to be scum. Mind, Vaimes and GJ are still solidly town to me. I think INANN is probably the one protective role we got, and no, I'm not counting ascetic as protective.
More thought needs to be pit into this by me...
Vote Zomg
Vote Jackrito
??? - 1 shot message, reveals his alignment to the player who receives it
??? - triggers on No Lynch
Night 1 - sent tomsloger a message
This would be the reason. I am having trouble understanding how this worked out. The scum team took a shot in the dark and nailed the ONE person you were going to reveal your alignment to this game? Not to mention you used the (supposed) ONLY mason shot night one, but that's a playstyle difference, not alignment indicative. But we are to believe that this HIGHLY unlikely result is how it went down?
But now you don't wanna get lynched because "Jackrito can confirm me, guys!" Add in that Jackrito reneged on what he first said, which was "I can talk to any dead." Correct me if I am wrong or misread something, but I believe his story is "I can only talk to the LAST dead guy." Again, highly suspect.
Then, if you follow me down the design path... Why would the mod put a ONE shot mason in a game like this... and also a weird Medium role? For THIS VERY circumstance? The probability alone of things going down this way is staggering. I don't see the point of a medium otherwise. It doesn't get us any information, or at least, not enough to devote a PR to it. I just don't believe that Bur would do that.
But, modgaming aside. I think occam's razor simply tells us that you are lying scum, caught in a mass claim that you had to go through otherwise risk looking poorly.
So. Die.
There is no way I'm no-lynching today. What a weird ability, that will basically fail all the time. Gosh. How can we be "sure" there is a scum lynch today? If they confess again?
If possible, you need to talk to Kosa. Because if we kill scum and you survive, but didn't contact him, you're not going to live very long.
If we're gonna modgame, we should look at the set-up as a whole. Not cherry pick abilities and say "those look strange, I don't think Bur would ever use those."
I'm pretty sure the reason there are some unusual one-shot abilities in the game is so my ability isn't potentially useless. I only get one shot for the whole game, I believe, so wasting it would feel pretty bad. There's already tom, cythare, shadow, and Mindreaver who it wouldn't benefit until they've been unlocked.
Like, you think those two abilities are "weird" but a 1-shot time-traveling watcher isn't?
Or a partial ascetic who can only be affected by women?
An inventor with a lie detector?
This isn't a game with normal roles.
I still think we need to lynch scarbo-the-redirector and sort NewName/GJ tomorrow.
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StaffYou didn't crypto claim until day two, but say that day one is a solid town move. Considering you hadn't known it was against the rules, why did you wait?
I have to think about this.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModINeedANewName (3): Ghosting, Jackrito, Vaimes
scarbo (2): Mindreaver, Silvercrys3467
Mindreaver (1): scarbo
zomgarcwind (1): Huntzilla
Jackrito (1): Huntzilla
Not Voting (6): Gentleman Johnny, Prophylaxis, D_V, INeedANewName, Zomgarcwind, shadowlancerx
With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Wednesday, November 2nd, at 11:59 PM EST.
Day 2: 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 FINAL
Day 3: 3.1 3.2
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Curse PremiumI literally do not remember why scarbo is town other than the WiFOMy "he's pushing a neutral and he should know it looks bad, therefore, it makes him town!"
Him forgetting about the cryptoclaiming thing of zomg's is also
His actions are ??? as town, but even more ?????? as scum.
I need to look at the claims again; be back tonight.
Having your votes split on two nobodies is a waste.
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StaffVote INANN
Im starting to think Innan is town because of things like this.
Vote Scarbo
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StaffSo he targeted no one because ???.
There is no reason NOT to BG someone. Ever. And I'm pretty sure at this point he's just lurking out the Day (again) and hoping to survive while giving away as little as possible.
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StaffHe might be busy as hell. In which case, let us know and give an estimate when you'll be back.
He might be blowing us off.
Or he might be caught scum and just figures we won't kill him if he doesn't say much.
Those are my thoughts. I'm not sure he's got a ton of new posts for my to look at since my pbpa. In all, he might be a bodyguard... but if he is, this level of information is unacceptable; also he needs to respond to comments about how he's targeted so far.
He begins by basically stating he knows Proph isn't scum and proceeds to give reasons we should be worried and eventually lynch him. *This* is neutral-hunting scum mentality.
He proceeds to focus on mechanics until going after GJ but then for some reason he switches to kosa. Then he changes his tune on Proph:
changes his tune on kosa
changes his tune on GJ
Now there's a weird scum read on silver, followed up with
and yet still no vote on silver. We do however get a vote on...
Cythare! about whom he has said exactly nothing up to this point
Still not sure why he would be OK with lynching Cythare. The interesting bit is his referencing shockwave, also for the first or second time. This comes after there was some talk about shifting wagons to shockwave for his inactivity. The thing is though that silver was spearheading that wagon, followed by Proph. So why else would Mindreaver be willing to follow is top scum read onto Shockwave's wagon?
GJ picks up on something at the beginning of Day 2 that apparently triggers him.
(on a side note, shadow's response to this is really weird:
)
After INANN's wagon started to grow plump, we get a random PBPA and a nice opportunistic vote on INANN. There's some more trashposts until he finds my scum slip and gets really proud of himself. We've already addressed this though, but let's just put it all in one place for the record.
the icing on the cake is trying to link shadow and me. I try to make sure I understand his argument...
So there's no real interest in scumhunting. He says as much when he finally decides to vote me:
And again he continues to misconstrue my hypothetical situation: that by randomly choosing unlocked targets, ghosting could find himself with an unlocked scum, a locked town, and side with scum. I don't know if he's doubling down on his super-cocky post or is just grasping at straws that hard. Filler posts follow until this gem.
First of all, jack clearly meant 'there,' so the whole thing is really just par for the course. My guess as to why he didn't pursue it: either jack is a scum buddy or there's no reason to get off a growing wagon.
What I noticed most was the extreme density interactions: lots with GJ, silver, shadow, proph, and ghosting and virtually none with anyone else unless he decided to vote them. A scum flip would support town!-GJ, -silver, and -shadow. Given his lack of interaction with shock, it wouldn't surprise me if scum buddies were other players he's largely ignored: namely jack and zomg.
Vote INANN
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StaffWhat was it that changed your mind on Mindreaver?
wait for it....
SLANKERS!
If this is true, I don't see how he essentially isn't just confirmed scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
He had been doing better. I liked his case earlier. Either way,I am willing to table him. I skimmed skatbo's pay, I'll read it with a more clear mind later.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Ok, if he's lying scum, where are the protectives? tom's ability doesn't block factional kills. Kosa's jail keeper was one-shot. D_V has to target the person performing the NK, not the target of the NK (almost worthless). I guess scarbo's bus driver sort-of counts...
I guess scarbo could be town if NewName is scum, and NewName could be the other roleblocker or something.
Or Ghosting is lying scum and Vaimes is in on it with him...?
Plus it's extremely unlikely that all of the investigative roles are town. Role cop, tracker, 1-shot super watcher? All town aligned? Plus Kosa's lie detector? Highly unlikely.