ghosting how would you feel about claiming as well?
If I had wanted to claim any more information about my role, I would have. I'm not reading you as particularly town, which only makes me like this less.
It's been beaten to a horse why it would be ridiculously stupid of me, and would not align with my behaviour even, to fake claim as neutral this early. On top of that, my role is provable, and it's inherently pro-town.
Reading D_V as backing off under pressure, will further analyze his big post later.
ha OK A) you use your read on me as though it's a threat when you've already claimed not to be town and also B) yeah see but like people don't even believe you in the first place (hence your wagon), so what ("town-oriented") motivation is there for you to delay claiming if you'll presumably do it eventually anyway when your wagon gets large enough? you can't have your neutral cake and eat it too.
How do you explain two neutrals that are clearly opposite of each other in the game. Would you not say that you are clearly supposed to be against each other?
To reiterate my statement. You are basically claiming right now that there are two Neutral survivors in the game with added conditions, but that overall they are neutral survivors in a 17 person game.
How do you explain two neutrals that are clearly opposite of each other in the game. Would you not say that you are clearly supposed to be against each other?
Why do you assume he is telling the truth?
Are you asking me if I think he's telling the truth?
If so, yes, based on my experience with Proph and the way he came out about his role, I do.
I think that it would be too overpowered for me to auto-lose if he D1 vanillafied me, and I only have one win condition, so it'd be kind of unfair. That adds to it as well.
If he isn't telling the truth, then we know he's lying and can lynch him. And if he vanillafies me, you just outted Proph, and now I have no abilities. So even if he's lying, it's not a net negative by any means at all.
ha OK A) you use your read on me as though it's a threat when you've already claimed not to be town and also B) yeah see but like people don't even believe you in the first place (hence your wagon), so what ("town-oriented") motivation is there for you to delay claiming if you'll presumably do it eventually anyway when your wagon gets large enough? you can't have your neutral cake and eat it too.
Cythare, Hunt, zomg, and tom are in descending order of solid town; G J and silver are conf- and possible-scum, respectively.
Plenty of people believe me, lol.
D_V even took his vote off of me at one point.
Hunt is thinking.
And like 3-5 others off the top of my head believe me.
There is no reason to give scum unnecessary information about my role, but thank you for pressing for it.
Ok ok so you're saying that he can't vanilify you because you'll tell us. Not because of role mechanics.
Ok.
To reiterate my statement. You are basically claiming right now that there are two Neutral survivors in the game with added conditions, but that overall they are neutral survivors in a 17 person game.
Nothing about that seems wrong to you?
Why were you so over defensive early game as well?
156, 159 off of the top of my head. Something you left out of your wall of quotes of "I'm not being defensive". But you just picked the best of the bunch and ignored where you were.
I'm kind of sad Hunt is the Double Voter. It would have been nice to almost-clear someone who's harder to read. :I
oh well
---
Silver: I had someone correctly toneread me on an alt when I had done absolutely nothing, and it was kind of eerie. I almost feel like I'm being reverse-pocketed.
I like your readslist for the most part, kinda iffy on the tom/zomg/DV cluster. What would you say if I said DV was a toneread?
---
Also y'all need to cool it with the walls and quote wars. The urge to skim is strong.
Vaimes
Prophylaxis
Ghosting
Huntzilla
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
DV
Shockwave07
Gentleman Johnny
Mindreaver
Cythare
---
tomsloger
---
Kosakosa
shadowlancerx
scarbo
Jackrito
SorenBlade
I've read Ghosting's ISO and feel like everything about him has become so convoluted. Lynch someone else and let him be resolved via Night actions or something.
Shockwave ~should be another easy read, so he may move up or down depending on his catchup.
I will never have a read on tom, but I like his activity and questions/prodding.
Vote SorenBlade
Hi. Talk to me about your Proph vote, and why you're either going to leave it or move it.
The most definitive thing you've said, is that Silver is scum and then you backed away. What do you believe in?
What good does my vote do when no one is following it? If I'm unable to convince everybody Silver is scum, then I'll back off and put my vote to better use. It's Day 1, I'm not in a hurry: there's plenty of time to either lynch Silver during the game's course or, if he's town (he's not but ok), for me to read through it.
Also, keep the non-wagon on him in your backburner for the late game if he survives until it. Will probably come in handy.
I also mildly like D_V, but I gotta constantly remind myself that a D_V with bad reads on the gamestate doing questionable things is a scum!D_V, not a VI D_V.
/snip
In what way do I not understand the game state?
The bad reads part was a STMU mention. On the questionable things:
1) Playing the Voxx card on GJ with "R U scum" in #36 and voting him when he doesn't acknowledge you as if that "reaction test" was anything of note. It's mostly null even when directly answered, and it's definitely null when not answered by an experienced player who's busy responding to more serious stuff than facetious (and at that point, virtually RVS) demands. Granted, you backed off when GJ talked to you, but that was after a Cyt vote and only to jump on Mindreaver with ok-ish reasoning. Unsure if genuine or testing the town waters.
2) Discrete fishing in #89 and #109; heavy fishing in #104 and #136, which, albeit nontown do it more (especially on D1), isn't necessarily alignment indicative... but then you announce you're scumreading Ghosting for his "permanent fishing expedition" in #150 and votes him in your next post, while also subtly buddying GJ (previous scumread).
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
This doesn't make sense. Scum can perfectly (and in some cases, like Goons if any, probably should) claim or falseclaim their triggers in order to pose as town and/or mislead us. Also Proph gave info and is a neutral. Also Ghosting gave info and is a neutral. Oh wait.
4) Your Ghosting scumread:
Then this happened. You had just literally said anyone eager to give info is prolly town. But apparently not Ghosting: Ghosting is scum because... the game can't have two neutrals? Like, really? On Day 1 of a 17-player Specialty currently with zero flips you're flat-out scumreading someone based on modgaming that can be resumed as "no it's impossible for this game to have two neutrals Ghost is scum."
You don't know that. You can't know that because you don't know what is in this game's fabric other than "no one is a vanilla and peepz have unlockable stuff". That's simply not a valid reason to scumread anyone. Then, there's also everything else other people have already said regarding the read. It just doesn't make sense.
The problem being, STMU made me understand that a nonsense D_V can simply be a scum D_V.
Abilities unlock list.
No Lynch: Kosa, zomgacwind The reason I was pushing this was because I believe that the end design result will be 2 town one scum.
But the third has never claimed. I actually believe both of these players to be town because of this. To me it came very organically and despite what anyone would say volunteering information is very very townie.
Bolded is my emphasis.
Why is that? Again, you're gaming the mod over baseless speculation. And, to be quite frankly, I don't believe you. After all those fishing posts and your vote on Ghosting because he was fishing, as you yourself justified it, I call this bull*****. To me, you were fishing plain and simple.
Again and again, questionable stuff, and there's simply too many of them. I've dismissed those in STMU as bad reads, miscommunication issues etc, sure, but that's not happening again.
The most definitive thing you've said, is that Silver is scum and then you backed away. What do you believe in?
What good does my vote do when no one is following it? If I'm unable to convince everybody Silver is scum, then I'll back off and put my vote to better use. It's Day 1, I'm not in a hurry: there's plenty of time to either lynch Silver during the game's course or, if he's town (he's not but ok), for me to read through it.
Also, keep the non-wagon on him in your backburner for the late game if he survives until it. Will probably come in handy.
I also mildly like D_V, but I gotta constantly remind myself that a D_V with bad reads on the gamestate doing questionable things is a scum!D_V, not a VI D_V.
/snip
In what way do I not understand the game state?
The bad reads part was a STMU mention. On the questionable things:
1) Playing the Voxx card on GJ with "R U scum" in #36 and voting him when he doesn't acknowledge you as if that "reaction test" was anything of note. It's mostly null even when directly answered, and it's definitely null when not answered by an experienced player who's busy responding to more serious stuff than facetious (and at that point, virtually RVS) demands. Granted, you backed off when GJ talked to you, but that was after a Cyt vote and only to jump on Mindreaver with ok-ish reasoning. Unsure if genuine or testing the town waters.
2) Discrete fishing in #89 and #109; heavy fishing in #104 and #136, which, albeit nontown do it more (especially on D1), isn't necessarily alignment indicative... but then you announce you're scumreading Ghosting for his "permanent fishing expedition" in #150 and votes him in your next post, while also subtly buddying GJ (previous scumread).
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
This doesn't make sense. Scum can perfectly (and in some cases, like Goons if any, probably should) claim or falseclaim their triggers in order to pose as town and/or mislead us. Also Proph gave info and is a neutral. Also Ghosting gave info and is a neutral. Oh wait.
4) Your Ghosting scumread:
Then this happened. You had just literally said anyone eager to give info is prolly town. But apparently not Ghosting: Ghosting is scum because... the game can't have two neutrals? Like, really? On Day 1 of a 17-player Specialty currently with zero flips you're flat-out scumreading someone based on modgaming that can be resumed as "no it's impossible for this game to have two neutrals Ghost is scum."
You don't know that. You can't know that because you don't know what is in this game's fabric other than "no one is a vanilla and peepz have unlockable stuff". That's simply not a valid reason to scumread anyone. Then, there's also everything else other people have already said regarding the read. It just doesn't make sense.
The problem being, STMU made me understand that a nonsense D_V can simply be a scum D_V.
Abilities unlock list.
No Lynch: Kosa, zomgacwind The reason I was pushing this was because I believe that the end design result will be 2 town one scum.
But the third has never claimed. I actually believe both of these players to be town because of this. To me it came very organically and despite what anyone would say volunteering information is very very townie.
Bolded is my emphasis.
Why is that? Again, you're gaming the mod over baseless speculation. And, to be quite frankly, I don't believe you. After all those fishing posts and your vote on Ghosting because he was fishing, as you yourself justified it, I call this bull*****. To me, you were fishing plain and simple.
Again and again, questionable stuff, and there's simply too many of them. I've dismissed those in STMU as bad reads, miscommunication issues etc, sure, but that's not happening again.
Vote D_V
What is your logic of Nonsense?
You clearly understood everything I was saying.
How is me fishing nonsense. Pro tip its not.
How is 1 nonsense pro tip its not.
Its a different kind of information. Its partial information versus full claims. This indicates a genuine claim. And breadcrumbing is typically very townie because it is hard to fake, and to set up with a false role. Ghosting and Proph just straight up claimed, thats a large difference to me. The fact that you would say that these are the same thing is utterly ridiculous. You literally lost to Cyth lost game as SK like learn to use some role analysis dear lord.
My ghosting read has so much more going for it than can be beaten by "He gave out info". Like what are you on? I said it indicated town, I didn't say guaranteed towniess. Nothing about those two statements contradicts each other. You are the one full of nonsense not me.
Why is that? Again, you're gaming the mod over baseless speculation. And, to be quite frankly, I don't believe you. After all those fishing posts and your vote on Ghosting because he was fishing, as you yourself justified it, I call this bull*****. To me, you were fishing plain and simple.
My vote on ghosting, was because he was fishing but it was more to get a reaction. It stayed on him after because he was super defensive about it and just plain weird. Get your head in the game please.
What you said here just patently doesn't make any sense and I know you are better than this after our last game.
ill have a cell phone and some amount of free time, but yeah.
just to clarify, probably in a really suspicious way if dv ends up flipping scum:
i dont have a townread on DV.
i just think the reasons yall are currently using to push him suck.
or, rather, suck when applied to dv
thats the thing with meta. yall are quick to see stmu as his scum meta and attack him for behaving similarly.
but he actually pretty brilliantly mimiced his town game there. had me fooled until almost the end.
anyway. if DV is town kosa is probably the scum on the wagon.
thats all gut and i have nothing to back it up.
Love this version of you. Can't quite decide if we are mindmelding because you're scum, or just that we aren't oil and water like D1 of star trek. In any case, Unvote. Very satisfactory post.
@Kosakosa:
Do you still think I'm scum?
If so, do you have any reservations about lynching someone I also want to lynch?
@Vaimes:
I mean. Tone reads are tone reads. I don't put a ton of stock in them. We have pretty different views of the game state and at some point I'll have to figure out why. But you sound townie enough that I don't want to lynch you right now.
@tom:
If you don't have a town read on D_V, why defend him?
They're about as 'strong' as they can be Day 1. Think of them more as 'prefer not to kill.'
I'll assume you're specifically talking about DV, zomg, and GJ, in addition to Shockwave.
I liked DV's earlier posting, and highlighted one specifically not too far back. zomg is newb town, which several other people have come around to recently. GJ feels like he did in AA, drawing a lot of heat out of seemingly nowhere and responding well enough to the pressure.
Don't like the DV wagon, but at this point it's half hot air since there are two claimed Neutrals on board. I'll look into shadow and Kosa after work.
I thought Clover's one post was fairly genuine. And I know Shockwave is going to be an easy read, since in my whopping one game's worth of experience with him, he was pretty obvious scum Day 1. So I'll just leave that slot in the green for now and let it fall where it may.
Almost always scared when I agree with tom, but that DV wagon is garbage.
Since you are the expert of no lynching what are the benefits of no lynching?
I came into an interesting thought, but now I need to see the counter to it.
Everyone is a power role.
I know that by claiming the idea and pushing it, the scum will see me as a threat.
I get targeted or roleblocked, investigative roles get information.
That's the science behind it. It puts stock into there being a watcher/cop, but it feels safe to assume that those roles exist somewhere, unless we have a bunch of bleh abilities.
Vaimes's last post makes me feel infinity better about him.
I'm going to be (mostly) v/la until Monday, have two big tests coming up and a ridiculous amount of homework due by midnight on Saturday/Sunday. I'll try to stay caught up, but going to be pretty swamped until then.
Almost always scared when I agree with tom, but that DV wagon is garbage.
Since you are the expert of no lynching what are the benefits of no lynching?
I came into an interesting thought, but now I need to see the counter to it.
Everyone is a power role.
I know that by claiming the idea and pushing it, the scum will see me as a threat.
I get targeted or roleblocked, investigative roles get information.
That's the science behind it. It puts stock into there being a watcher/cop, but it feels safe to assume that those roles exist somewhere, unless we have a bunch of bleh abilities.
Vaimes's last post makes me feel infinity better about him.
I'm not saying this has any bearing on your alignment, or how I"m reading you. But that bolded part doesn't scan at all. "Lynch the guy that came up with the idea we don't like?" Huh? It's not like if you died tonight we'd all say "Geez, it was probably because he had the no-lynch idea". It's just weird that you think you're this huge threat because you pushed this idea. I mean, I hope this works out for you, but I just don't see it. Didn't you list out reasons for a scum kill? "Bad Ideas" wasn't on there
@Silver
Bad reasons are bad reasons. Regardless if they're right. Maybe even especially if they're right?
Well, yeah, but you keep saying you aren't town reading him. Like. Why even bring up your not-existant read of him if you're just objecting to the reasons we're voting him and not to the fact we're voting him specifically?
Do you think you'll be able to figure him out better later?
@D_V:
Could you link me a couple of your town games? Besides Mindscrew, I'm going through that one already.
Almost always scared when I agree with tom, but that DV wagon is garbage.
Since you are the expert of no lynching what are the benefits of no lynching?
I came into an interesting thought, but now I need to see the counter to it.
Everyone is a power role.
I know that by claiming the idea and pushing it, the scum will see me as a threat.
I get targeted or roleblocked, investigative roles get information.
That's the science behind it. It puts stock into there being a watcher/cop, but it feels safe to assume that those roles exist somewhere, unless we have a bunch of bleh abilities.
Vaimes's last post makes me feel infinity better about him.
I'm not saying this has any bearing on your alignment, or how I"m reading you. But that bolded part doesn't scan at all. "Lynch the guy that came up with the idea we don't like?" Huh? It's not like if you died tonight we'd all say "Geez, it was probably because he had the no-lynch idea". It's just weird that you think you're this huge threat because you pushed this idea. I mean, I hope this works out for you, but I just don't see it. Didn't you list out reasons for a scum kill? "Bad Ideas" wasn't on there
The idea behind suggesting a no-lynch is that I have an ability that can be useful to the town if it goes off, or I think I have there is an ability that wants to get to night without being exposed.
Since the scum know I am town, they are going to wonder why I would suggest such a thing.
That said, two claimed neutrals kind of make me hate the plan, despite its merits. Ghosting is scummier by a mile than Proph, but Proph has an ability that the town doesn't want to deal with. Blehhhh
Unvote. I'll let you off for now.
If scarbo is scum, I admire the fact that he pretty much double downed on my dying wagon with his "I don't believe any of you who have a town read on GJ" stick. That's a lot of balls to push a mislynch that won't actually happen, so I think I can move him to the town pile.
Cythare, I need to look at some more. He is voting me each time, but really doesn't seem interested in getting more people attracted to that choice.
Jack loses some stock. Something about his last couple of posts just hit the ear wrong. Maybe on a slight re-read, I'll feel better.
@Silver
Bad reasons are bad reasons. Regardless if they're right. Maybe even especially if they're right?
Well, yeah, but you keep saying you aren't town reading him. Like. Why even bring up your not-existant read of him if you're just objecting to the reasons we're voting him and not to the fact we're voting him specifically?
Do you think you'll be able to figure him out better later?
@D_V:
Could you link me a couple of your town games? Besides Mindscrew, I'm going through that one already.
@zomg:
What do you think of me pushing D_V if you're considering that we might both be scum?
Why are Ghosting and I aligned if I'm scum? Do you think I would treat a buddy's neutral claim the way I am/have been?
Can you give me a full reads list? I'd like to know what you think of the off-wagon players as well.
Mindscrew is totally unhelpful because D_V was either under a posting restriction or roleplaying. I gave it up after the first few pages lol. I'll check those other games though, thanks D_V.
Im considering the fact that everyone but me may be scum lol.
But about D_V specifically, he is feeling like scum to me bc he has attracted alot of attention but then again maybe everyone is reading him wrong and jumping on a stupidwagon.
Sure, but do you think he and I are scum together? That's what I'm trying to get at.
As far as Ghosting goes, you defend him pretty heftily and thats why i feel if you are scum, so is he
I mean. I think he's a neutral. I don't think I'm hard defending him or anything - I'd just, you know, rather lynch scum than a probably-neutral that claimed to have beneficial abilities. But even if I was hard defending him, what is my motive for hard defending a buddy that claimed neutral and is under fire?
As far as a full reads list, i'll do that tomorrow sometime for you I have to be up in 3 and a half hours for work and its bedtime
That's fine, no big rush. We've got until Friday, and I'm headed for bed soon myself.
@zomg:
What do you think of me pushing D_V if you're considering that we might both be scum?
Why are Ghosting and I aligned if I'm scum? Do you think I would treat a buddy's neutral claim the way I am/have been?
Can you give me a full reads list? I'd like to know what you think of the off-wagon players as well.
Mindscrew is totally unhelpful because D_V was either under a posting restriction or roleplaying. I gave it up after the first few pages lol. I'll check those other games though, thanks D_V.
Im considering the fact that everyone but me may be scum lol.
But about D_V specifically, he is feeling like scum to me bc he has attracted alot of attention but then again maybe everyone is reading him wrong and jumping on a stupidwagon.
As far as Ghosting goes, you defend him pretty heftily and thats why i feel if you are scum, so is he
As far as a full reads list, i'll do that tomorrow sometime for you I have to be up in 3 and a half hours for work and its bedtime
I mean two of the people on my wagon our claimed neutrals so how exactly does that work into your read?
I don't like the DV wagon. Problem is I don't have a lot of insight right now on where to place my votes.
Reread upcoming while we have a few players V/LAish. Expect some more from me this weekend. I am gonna push myself to not fall into the lazy town pit that I normally do on day one.
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Do you not want to be held accountable for your reasons until I form a read on dv?
What? No. That isn't what I said. They are two separate, mostly unrelated questions.
It seems weird to me that you keep bringing up your not-read on D_V, regardless of his alignment. Like you don't want to be associated with him, even though no one has said anything about the two of you being aligned. It doesn't mean a lot until one of you flips, but it seemed weird to me, so... why bother to bring it up at all?
The second question is sort of like. How confident are you in your ability to read him? Do you think you'll be able to figure him out later? Why are you not paranoid of him since he fooled you in StarTrek? Is scum!D_V usually more obvious to you? Stuff like that.
@silver
I guess I still don't get what you're asking then.
I said I don't have a read on dv because I don't have a read on dv.
I've been right more than wrong on scumdv. In the other two games where he was scum, I knew day 1 (titanic ultimatum, courtly intrigue).
I think I'll figure it out eventually
I guess I still don't get what you're asking then.
It's more of a rhetorical question at this point, I guess. Like. I didn't bother to point out I didn't have a read on GJ when I objected to his trash wagon. My read on him was immaterial to my belief that the reasons people were voting him were bad. And you pointed out that you were saying it suspiciously if he flips scum, which is really self-aware. Like you're thinking really hard about whether we'll connect you to him if he flips scum.
I don't know. I want you to be town again but I have a weird feeling about you. And I have a bunch of town reads. Maybe I'm confbiasing and my reads are terrible this game. That's why I unvoted. I'm going to reread and reevaluate, and hopefully someone else chimes in or I find something I missed.
Sure, but do you think he and I are scum together? That's what I'm trying to get at.
why should this matter?
Now that zomg has answered, it matters because I'm trying to figure out how he's viewing the game right now and whether he's actually thinking about the game or if his reads are fake.
He said both D_V and I could be scum and I wanted to know if he thought we could be scum together. Now he's saying we're probably not scum together and that I'm more likely to be scum than D_V. That's a much clearer picture of where his head is at than what he gave us before, isn't it?
If you're trying to get at something specific I don't understand.
@silver
I guess I still don't get what you're asking then.
I said I don't have a read on dv because I don't have a read on dv.
I've been right more than wrong on scumdv. In the other two games where he was scum, I knew day 1 (titanic ultimatum, courtly intrigue).
I think I'll figure it out eventually
I read through Titanic Ultimatum and I'm very curious to see where you land on D_V
My original push on him was because his posting wasn't directed at actually helping the game, at this point I'm not feeling that anymore, whether that's because of pressure or something else I don't feel like my vote there is necessary anymore. UNVOTE
I still think his Ghosting hate is better spend elsewhere.
I originally intended to vote down on Zomgarcwind, his posting feels weird, but after I reread, I'm not feeling it at the moment, he is trying, and I think eagerness is making his posts come across as off putting.
I was trying to get at why you were appearing to distance yourself from DV. Obvious reasons aside, I'm not putting much stock in his reads, so I was wondering why you were. Just seemed paranoid.
I've actually already responded to it twice if you read my post history.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Post number please because I'm not seeing it?
Just re quote yourself go to town on me on this. I truly do not see the answers you claim are there.
Sure.
Post #291
Post #294
Post #352
Post #377
And kind of post #178
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
it's like a blast from the past!
ha OK A) you use your read on me as though it's a threat when you've already claimed not to be town and also B) yeah see but like people don't even believe you in the first place (hence your wagon), so what ("town-oriented") motivation is there for you to delay claiming if you'll presumably do it eventually anyway when your wagon gets large enough? you can't have your neutral cake and eat it too.
Cythare, Hunt, zomg, and tom are in descending order of solid town; G J and silver are conf- and possible-scum, respectively.
Dude that's like half of what I asked.
How do you know he can't vanilafy you?
How do you explain two neutrals that are clearly opposite of each other in the game. Would you not say that you are clearly supposed to be against each other?
Why do you assume he is telling the truth?
Are you asking me if I think he's telling the truth?
If so, yes, based on my experience with Proph and the way he came out about his role, I do.
I think that it would be too overpowered for me to auto-lose if he D1 vanillafied me, and I only have one win condition, so it'd be kind of unfair. That adds to it as well.
If he isn't telling the truth, then we know he's lying and can lynch him. And if he vanillafies me, you just outted Proph, and now I have no abilities. So even if he's lying, it's not a net negative by any means at all.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Plenty of people believe me, lol.
D_V even took his vote off of me at one point.
Hunt is thinking.
And like 3-5 others off the top of my head believe me.
There is no reason to give scum unnecessary information about my role, but thank you for pressing for it.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ok.
To reiterate my statement. You are basically claiming right now that there are two Neutral survivors in the game with added conditions, but that overall they are neutral survivors in a 17 person game.
Nothing about that seems wrong to you?
Why were you so over defensive early game as well?
156, 159 off of the top of my head. Something you left out of your wall of quotes of "I'm not being defensive". But you just picked the best of the bunch and ignored where you were.
Personally, if both are believed, rather get Proph
Ghosting seems weird though.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
oh well
---
Silver: I had someone correctly toneread me on an alt when I had done absolutely nothing, and it was kind of eerie. I almost feel like I'm being reverse-pocketed.
I like your readslist for the most part, kinda iffy on the tom/zomg/DV cluster. What would you say if I said DV was a toneread?
---
Also y'all need to cool it with the walls and quote wars. The urge to skim is strong.
Vaimes
Prophylaxis
Ghosting
Huntzilla
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
DV
Shockwave07
Gentleman Johnny
Mindreaver
Cythare
---
tomsloger
---
Kosakosa
shadowlancerx
scarbo
Jackrito
SorenBlade
I've read Ghosting's ISO and feel like everything about him has become so convoluted. Lynch someone else and let him be resolved via Night actions or something.
Shockwave ~should be another easy read, so he may move up or down depending on his catchup.
I will never have a read on tom, but I like his activity and questions/prodding.
Vote SorenBlade
Hi. Talk to me about your Proph vote, and why you're either going to leave it or move it.
Let it go and hunt scum.
What good does my vote do when no one is following it? If I'm unable to convince everybody Silver is scum, then I'll back off and put my vote to better use. It's Day 1, I'm not in a hurry: there's plenty of time to either lynch Silver during the game's course or, if he's town
(he's not but ok), for me to read through it.Also, keep the non-wagon on him in your backburner for the late game if he survives until it. Will probably come in handy.
---
The bad reads part was a STMU mention. On the questionable things:
1) Playing the Voxx card on GJ with "R U scum" in #36 and voting him when he doesn't acknowledge you as if that "reaction test" was anything of note. It's mostly null even when directly answered, and it's definitely null when not answered by an experienced player who's busy responding to more serious stuff than facetious (and at that point, virtually RVS) demands. Granted, you backed off when GJ talked to you, but that was after a Cyt vote and only to jump on Mindreaver with ok-ish reasoning. Unsure if genuine or testing the town waters.
2) Discrete fishing in #89 and #109; heavy fishing in #104 and #136, which, albeit nontown do it more (especially on D1), isn't necessarily alignment indicative... but then you announce you're scumreading Ghosting for his "permanent fishing expedition" in #150 and votes him in your next post, while also subtly buddying GJ (previous scumread).
3) This sentence:
This doesn't make sense. Scum can perfectly (and in some cases, like Goons if any, probably should) claim or falseclaim their triggers in order to pose as town and/or mislead us. Also Proph gave info and is a neutral. Also Ghosting gave info and is a neutral. Oh wait.
4) Your Ghosting scumread:
Then this happened. You had just literally said anyone eager to give info is prolly town. But apparently not Ghosting: Ghosting is scum because... the game can't have two neutrals? Like, really? On Day 1 of a 17-player Specialty currently with zero flips you're flat-out scumreading someone based on modgaming that can be resumed as "no it's impossible for this game to have two neutrals Ghost is scum."
You don't know that. You can't know that because you don't know what is in this game's fabric other than "no one is a vanilla and peepz have unlockable stuff". That's simply not a valid reason to scumread anyone. Then, there's also everything else other people have already said regarding the read. It just doesn't make sense.
The problem being, STMU made me understand that a nonsense D_V can simply be a scum D_V.
Bolded is my emphasis.
Why is that? Again, you're gaming the mod over baseless speculation. And, to be quite frankly, I don't believe you. After all those fishing posts and your vote on Ghosting because he was fishing, as you yourself justified it, I call this bull*****. To me, you were fishing plain and simple.
Again and again, questionable stuff, and there's simply too many of them. I've dismissed those in STMU as bad reads, miscommunication issues etc, sure, but that's not happening again.
Vote D_V
D_V (5) - Ghosting, shadowlancerx, Silvercrys3467, Prophylaxis, Kosakosa
Ghosting (3) - Huntzilla, Huntzilla, D_V
Gentleman Johnny (1) - Cythare
Mindreaver (1) - Gentleman Johnny
zomgarcwind (1) - Jackrito
Prophylaxis (1) - SorenBlade
Jackrito (1) - tomsloger
Kosakosa (1) - Mindreaver
Sorenblade (1) - Vaimes
Not Voting (3) - Scarbo, Shockwave08, zomgarcwind
Modnote: Due to replacement, Shockwave08’s vote has been reset.
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
Deadline is Friday, October 7th, at 11:59 PM EST.
What is your logic of Nonsense?
You clearly understood everything I was saying.
How is me fishing nonsense. Pro tip its not.
How is 1 nonsense pro tip its not.
Its a different kind of information. Its partial information versus full claims. This indicates a genuine claim. And breadcrumbing is typically very townie because it is hard to fake, and to set up with a false role. Ghosting and Proph just straight up claimed, thats a large difference to me. The fact that you would say that these are the same thing is utterly ridiculous. You literally lost to Cyth lost game as SK like learn to use some role analysis dear lord.
My ghosting read has so much more going for it than can be beaten by "He gave out info". Like what are you on? I said it indicated town, I didn't say guaranteed towniess. Nothing about those two statements contradicts each other. You are the one full of nonsense not me.
My vote on ghosting, was because he was fishing but it was more to get a reaction. It stayed on him after because he was super defensive about it and just plain weird. Get your head in the game please.
What you said here just patently doesn't make any sense and I know you are better than this after our last game.
ill have a cell phone and some amount of free time, but yeah.
just to clarify, probably in a really suspicious way if dv ends up flipping scum:
i dont have a townread on DV.
i just think the reasons yall are currently using to push him suck.
or, rather, suck when applied to dv
thats the thing with meta. yall are quick to see stmu as his scum meta and attack him for behaving similarly.
but he actually pretty brilliantly mimiced his town game there. had me fooled until almost the end.
anyway. if DV is town kosa is probably the scum on the wagon.
thats all gut and i have nothing to back it up.
Love this version of you. Can't quite decide if we are mindmelding because you're scum, or just that we aren't oil and water like D1 of star trek. In any case, Unvote. Very satisfactory post.
Hugs and Kisses,
Mind
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Do you still think I'm scum?
If so, do you have any reservations about lynching someone I also want to lynch?
@Vaimes:
I mean. Tone reads are tone reads. I don't put a ton of stock in them. We have pretty different views of the game state and at some point I'll have to figure out why. But you sound townie enough that I don't want to lynch you right now.
@tom:
If you don't have a town read on D_V, why defend him?
They're about as 'strong' as they can be Day 1. Think of them more as 'prefer not to kill.'
I'll assume you're specifically talking about DV, zomg, and GJ, in addition to Shockwave.
I liked DV's earlier posting, and highlighted one specifically not too far back. zomg is newb town, which several other people have come around to recently. GJ feels like he did in AA, drawing a lot of heat out of seemingly nowhere and responding well enough to the pressure.
Don't like the DV wagon, but at this point it's half hot air since there are two claimed Neutrals on board. I'll look into shadow and Kosa after work.
I thought Clover's one post was fairly genuine. And I know Shockwave is going to be an easy read, since in my whopping one game's worth of experience with him, he was pretty obvious scum Day 1. So I'll just leave that slot in the green for now and let it fall where it may.
How familiar are you with SorenBlade?
Since you are the expert of no lynching what are the benefits of no lynching?
I came into an interesting thought, but now I need to see the counter to it.
Everyone is a power role.
I know that by claiming the idea and pushing it, the scum will see me as a threat.
I get targeted or roleblocked, investigative roles get information.
That's the science behind it. It puts stock into there being a watcher/cop, but it feels safe to assume that those roles exist somewhere, unless we have a bunch of bleh abilities.
Vaimes's last post makes me feel infinity better about him.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
D_V (5) - Ghosting, shadowlancerx, Silvercrys3467, Prophylaxis, Kosakosa
Ghosting (3) - Huntzilla, Huntzilla, D_V
Gentleman Johnny (1) - Cythare
Mindreaver (1) - Gentleman Johnny
zomgarcwind (1) - Jackrito
Prophylaxis (1) - SorenBlade
Jackrito (1) - tomsloger
Sorenblade (1) - Vaimes
Not Voting (4) - Scarbo, Shockwave08, zomgarcwind, Mindreaver
Modnote: Due to replacement, Shockwave08’s vote has been reset.
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
Deadline is Friday, October 7th, at 11:59 PM EST.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Bad reasons are bad reasons. Regardless if they're right. Maybe even especially if they're right?
@mindreaver
What a strange accompaniment to that question. Why not just ask?
Not sure where that quote came from, but I never said it.
Nothing is outside my scumrange.
Do you think you'll be able to figure him out better later?
@D_V:
Could you link me a couple of your town games? Besides Mindscrew, I'm going through that one already.
The idea behind suggesting a no-lynch is that I have an ability that can be useful to the town if it goes off, or I think I have there is an ability that wants to get to night without being exposed.
Since the scum know I am town, they are going to wonder why I would suggest such a thing.
That said, two claimed neutrals kind of make me hate the plan, despite its merits. Ghosting is scummier by a mile than Proph, but Proph has an ability that the town doesn't want to deal with. Blehhhh
Unvote. I'll let you off for now.
If scarbo is scum, I admire the fact that he pretty much double downed on my dying wagon with his "I don't believe any of you who have a town read on GJ" stick. That's a lot of balls to push a mislynch that won't actually happen, so I think I can move him to the town pile.
Cythare, I need to look at some more. He is voting me each time, but really doesn't seem interested in getting more people attracted to that choice.
Jack loses some stock. Something about his last couple of posts just hit the ear wrong. Maybe on a slight re-read, I'll feel better.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Twinborn
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/683065-twinborn-mafia-day-4-a-new-dawn-perfect-mafia
Ace
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-game-over-the-bitter-taste-of
Drunken
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/660624-experiment-4-drunken-tracker-mafia-game-over
What do you think of me pushing D_V if you're considering that we might both be scum?
Why are Ghosting and I aligned if I'm scum? Do you think I would treat a buddy's neutral claim the way I am/have been?
Can you give me a full reads list? I'd like to know what you think of the off-wagon players as well.
Mindscrew is totally unhelpful because D_V was either under a posting restriction or roleplaying. I gave it up after the first few pages lol. I'll check those other games though, thanks D_V.
I mean. I think he's a neutral. I don't think I'm hard defending him or anything - I'd just, you know, rather lynch scum than a probably-neutral that claimed to have beneficial abilities. But even if I was hard defending him, what is my motive for hard defending a buddy that claimed neutral and is under fire?
That's fine, no big rush. We've got until Friday, and I'm headed for bed soon myself.
I mean two of the people on my wagon our claimed neutrals so how exactly does that work into your read?
@silver
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Do you not want to be held accountable for your reasons until I form a read on dv?
I don't like the DV wagon. Problem is I don't have a lot of insight right now on where to place my votes.
Reread upcoming while we have a few players V/LAish. Expect some more from me this weekend. I am gonna push myself to not fall into the lazy town pit that I normally do on day one.
It seems weird to me that you keep bringing up your not-read on D_V, regardless of his alignment. Like you don't want to be associated with him, even though no one has said anything about the two of you being aligned. It doesn't mean a lot until one of you flips, but it seemed weird to me, so... why bother to bring it up at all?
The second question is sort of like. How confident are you in your ability to read him? Do you think you'll be able to figure him out later? Why are you not paranoid of him since he fooled you in StarTrek? Is scum!D_V usually more obvious to you? Stuff like that.
@silver
why should this matter?
Go Blue!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Just a note for Proph: if that role you rolled is real you have a role that is harder to win as than a survivor. Hope you at least have a chance.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Been through the D_V games and I don't really know what to think.
unvote while I consider some things.
@silver
I guess I still don't get what you're asking then.
I said I don't have a read on dv because I don't have a read on dv.
I've been right more than wrong on scumdv. In the other two games where he was scum, I knew day 1 (titanic ultimatum, courtly intrigue).
I think I'll figure it out eventually
I don't know. I want you to be town again but I have a weird feeling about you. And I have a bunch of town reads. Maybe I'm confbiasing and my reads are terrible this game. That's why I unvoted. I'm going to reread and reevaluate, and hopefully someone else chimes in or I find something I missed.
If you're trying to get at something specific I don't understand.
I read through Titanic Ultimatum and I'm very curious to see where you land on D_V
My original push on him was because his posting wasn't directed at actually helping the game, at this point I'm not feeling that anymore, whether that's because of pressure or something else I don't feel like my vote there is necessary anymore.
UNVOTE
I still think his Ghosting hate is better spend elsewhere.
I originally intended to vote down on Zomgarcwind, his posting feels weird, but after I reread, I'm not feeling it at the moment, he is trying, and I think eagerness is making his posts come across as off putting.