1) Proph claims neutral. Claims his role removes abilities and "vanillafy" people. Wincon - Errybody is vanilla.
2) Ghosting claims the opposite of proph. This would mean he grants/amplifies abilities. His wincon is something along the lines of "no vanillas". That's what I get from "opposite".
3) Hunt senses dichotomy, believes proph, votes ghosting.
4) D_V agrees with Hunt, votes Ghosting, for tone as well as because he agrees with Hunt.
First, I also happen to believe proph. Also, I happen to believe ghosting as well. If his role is the opposite, it means he's essentially Anti-Vanillafying people. That doesn't seem like a scum ability. I don't see why both roles can't exist as claimed. It also doesn't seem like a hard thing to prove. Finally doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would hang around for long, if it wasn't true.
So why are we willing to give proph the benefit of the doubt here, and not ghosting? Because of playstyle? I'm not understanding what the argument is. Are we afraid that ghosting is lying to... what exactly? I don't understand what his motive could be. So lets give him a small pool of targets, and see what happens. Maybe he eats a scum-side roleblock (or a NK), but that's pretty good for us too.
For me, the concern is mostly that he's not the opposite that makes me unsure, but I do agree that if we're giving Proph the benefit of the doubt, we should also give that to Ghosting. In order to do so, though, I also need to see him branch out and do some work, not just fiddle with whatever his abilities are.
1) Proph claims neutral. Claims his role removes abilities and "vanillafy" people. Wincon - Errybody is vanilla.
2) Ghosting claims the opposite of proph. This would mean he grants/amplifies abilities. His wincon is something along the lines of "no vanillas". That's what I get from "opposite".
3) Hunt senses dichotomy, believes proph, votes ghosting.
4) D_V agrees with Hunt, votes Ghosting, for tone as well as because he agrees with Hunt.
First, I also happen to believe proph. Also, I happen to believe ghosting as well. If his role is the opposite, it means he's essentially Anti-Vanillafying people. That doesn't seem like a scum ability. I don't see why both roles can't exist as claimed. It also doesn't seem like a hard thing to prove. Finally doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would hang around for long, if it wasn't true.
So why are we willing to give proph the benefit of the doubt here, and not ghosting? Because of playstyle? I'm not understanding what the argument is. Are we afraid that ghosting is lying to... what exactly? I don't understand what his motive could be. So lets give him a small pool of targets, and see what happens. Maybe he eats a scum-side roleblock (or a NK), but that's pretty good for us too.
I'm with Mindreaver on this, I see no reason to waste our time trying to lynch Ghosting. And if we are being honest, D_V's recent posts haven't been in any way indicative to suggest he wants to logic this out. I think D_V is scum that is afraid of town having better abilities and making the game harder for him. Vote: D_V
@Ghosting - How concerned are you that Proph just targets you tonight? Would that just ruin your day?
I actually didn't consider that at all, but I'm 99% sure it would do close to nothing. If he can't get rid of factional abilities, and I'm a neutral with factional abilities, it shouldn't matter? In Golden Eye when I was SK, I had the item that removed non-factional abilities, but because I was neutral, it did nothing to me. I'm assuming the same would happen here?
@Ghosting - How concerned are you that Proph just targets you tonight? Would that just ruin your day?
If Ghosting is already a neutral, I'm pretty sure that Proph's ability wouldn't do anything to him.
You're confusing vanilla with neutral.
Oh crap, I went back and read Proph's original post about his role. It is vanilla, in my head I have been thinking he makes people neutral, not vanilla. I don't know how I misread that so badly originally.
See, I've always been under the impression that the only "factional" abilities were stuff like the Mafia's NK. Something that's assigned because of their alignment not because of their role, which is why I was super confused when Ghosting didn't actually get roleblocked in GoldenEye and was able to steal the laptop or whatever.
But that's a tangent that's probably not worth chasing now. I might bring it up in post-game or one of the theory threads if it's something I think is worth discussing at length.
I will not lynch toDay
Mindreaver, Cythare, and Jack have their heads on straight regarding no lynching vs lynching scum, the Proph neutral claim, and the other events in the thread.
Shadow's made some pretty good posts, and I'm especially a fan of his D_V vote since I agree with it.
I'm in Vaimes' pocket. This is entirely a tone read, and his reads disagree with mine significantly. At some point when we've had a few flips I'll have to re-evaluate.
Huntz has decent tone and is a double voter.
Ghosting and Proph are neutrals. Let's lynch scum toDay, okay? If extra people start showing up dead or something I'll reconsider.
Would prefer to not lynch toDay
GJ. I think him and cyth/mind are town/town/town, but if there's scum in that conversation it's probably him over them. His no lynch play was eh, and the early wagon on him was junk, but I'm not very good at reading him so...
Soren's first few posts were good but he's kind of falling off now.
scarbo seems ok but not amazing.
Would lynch with reservations
lil4leafclover is truly null. First post was ok but hasn't talked much (at all?) since then. Would like to see more.
Kosa's only posts have been saying I'm making scum slips (lol) and backing off of me. That said, he's not made a large number of posts yet and I'm fine with letting him post more.
Would shrug and lynch
tom seems a lot more passive/reactive than normal. In the two games I've played with him (he was town in one and scum in the other) he was generating reactions and posting reads. He's fence sitting a lot this game and I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Could just be he's busy with life/other games, I guess.
zomg... Man. His plan where he wanted to no lynch or lynch a neutral is a red flag, but some others have said it seems more newbish than scummy. I don't know if I agree, and I'd be happy to lynch him if he draws a wagon.
Would lynch with prejudice
D_V. We just did this song and dance in STMU4, and he's trying to lynch a likely neutral instead of scum hunting again.
He's doing the same thing. He pushed me as a neutral instead of scum hunting basically every day in ST after TappingStones got lynched. Now he's trying to lynch probably neutral Ghosting instead of scum again. He's using questionable logic to push a narrative.
Sorry, you're not really fencesitting a ton but I don't like how you're treating D_V. His logic tracks but you barely have an opinion on his alignment? No one looked good to you at all when you came into the thread? Seems questionable to me. And I have a lot of town reads already.
Lol. Ok.
The "you're all scummy" thing was a joke btw.
As for DV:
I don't think the ghosting push is indicative. It's fully in his town range.
Especially after DV and I have lost to SKs 3 times recently (stmu, aa, mindscrew)
DV also won as a jester and lost as a cultist this year.
Do you still think it's weird he's pushing ghosting?
I agree with Silver with regards to DV (DV choosing to push the neutral instead of solving the game/trying to lynch scum). I'm not a fan of his pushes on Mindreaver and GJ, so:
Unvote, vote D_V
Will post more tonight hopefully and answer all questions that have been directed at me.
For the record I don't think Ghosting is an SK. I think he is scum and lying about it.
There are 17 of us in this game. IF there are TWO neutrals. That means like 15 real players. That's dumb.
I've got some other thoughts that I'll explain in a little bit safe to say. I'm the bait boys and proph just showed his true colors.
For the record, you said you agreed with this post by Hunt:
Quote from Huntzilla »
Me and Bur go way back, and he was the first person I ever modded alongside. As far as gaming the mod goes, if I am gonna do it anywhere it would be here...
But I hear the true annoyance in your words. I will think on it a little and get back to you. I can see your point that you aren't THAT bad. It also nets you nothing as scum... it's not like a counterclaim of a power role.
The only motivation I could see behind it from scum would be to get Proph lynched being scared of being vanillalized... vanillafied... I'm just gonna call it "nerfed" ... so much easier. But like you said, you aren't doing that.
hmmmm...
So you think I am lying and scum, but agree with the points made here?
That means you think:
1) It nets me nothing as scum
2) I don't have much motivation to do it
3) Don't think I'd be bad enough to do it
That, or you don't actually agree with it, but said you did. Here's the post where you agree so I don't have to prove that later, lol:
Also, you still failed to address the "Why Ghosting and not Proph" question. And you also said earlier that you would still lynch me even if I was a confirmed pro-town neutral. Now why would you do that?
How about this: if you couldn't vote me, who would you vote? Basically: what are your other reads?
I get you don't like it. I even understand why.
I don't want to lynch ghosting.
All I'm saying is it could absolutely come from town DV.
You could argue with him about it, but I doubt it would do any good either way.
Something seems off about how you're playing this game. I don't usually see you hard defending people like this (not just D_V by the way), and you've said a lot of "I see why you think this, I even get it", to me, and now this, and in other cases as well. I'm not saying you're scum, but it definitely feels like you're acting different.
Something seems off about how you're playing this game. I don't usually see you hard defending people like this (not just D_V by the way), and you've said a lot of "I see why you think this, I even get it", to me, and now this, and in other cases as well. I'm not saying you're scum, but it definitely feels like you're acting different.
Really? I feel I'm much better at finding town than scum. And actively fake that when I'm scum.
Hell, I got nightkilled in Twinborn for it.
Yo ghosting saying something doesn't make it true.
I've clearly answered why you over proph. To make it clear since you seem adamant on IDK thinking this game. It's because you claim to be pro-town, and are not voting prop based on the fact that proph is anti-town.
Yo ghosting saying something doesn't make it true.
I've clearly answered why you over proph. To make it clear since you seem adamant on IDK thinking this game. It's because you claim to be pro-town, and are not voting prop based on the fact that proph is anti-town.
You see the problem right? You must.
Thank you for yet again (this is the third time) me asking for your views.
And that you agreed to a post and now are saying contradictory statements.
And the best part? I've already been asked about the problem, and answered it. More than once.
Proph has agreed to work with town, his ability doesn't seem to interfere with mine, and he can't vanillafy me. Since you somehow missed the last times I said that.
???????????????
That statement makes no sense what so ever?
You originally claimed that he was the opposite of your role.
How is him being able to vanillafy you have anything to do with that?
Is he not the opposite of your role then? Because the opposite of you would be turning abilities on, and then having everyone have abilities turned on at the end of the game would it not?
Your claim makes no sense at this point.
How do you know he can't vanilafy you?
The only explanation for their being two neutrals like you guys in the game is that you guys are actively playing against each other. Proph hasn't really cared or acknowledged that and neither have you. This is just bizarre to me.
A gentle reminder of the forum rules: While at mafia subforum we are more relaxed about multi-posting, making 3+ posts in a row will be considered spamming.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
D_V, there is enough in the thread to piece together what Ghosting's ability and wincon are. Give it some thought. I'm tempted to just further speculate, but I don't really know if that's in our interests or not. If he was claiming town, I would have clammed up a while ago, but as a neutral... dunno.
I suspect that Proph has a lot more reason to want Ghosting dead than the other way around.
Something seems off about how you're playing this game. I don't usually see you hard defending people like this (not just D_V by the way), and you've said a lot of "I see why you think this, I even get it", to me, and now this, and in other cases as well. I'm not saying you're scum, but it definitely feels like you're acting different.
Really? I feel I'm much better at finding town than scum. And actively fake that when I'm scum.
Hell, I got nightkilled in Twinborn for it.
Who have you found? I'm reading through a few of your games, and usually you have made a lot more statements about alignment than you have by now. Hunt was the only one I could find.
Alright let's do this.
GJ and Tom are in my strong Town pile.
GJ because of gut and play style and everything else I know about him.
Tom because of his entrance, and his willingness to give up information.
Abilities unlock list.
No Lynch: Kosa, zomgacwind
The reason I was pushing this was because I believe that the end design result will be 2 town one scum.
But the third has never claimed. I actually believe both of these players to be town because of this. To me it came very organically and despite what anyone would say volunteering information is very very townie.
So with that in mind our town list looks like this.
GJ, Tom, Kosa Zomg.
Jackrito, also seems town for me for his claim that “He would rather avoid unlocking his ability from how he has to do it.” I think he is the same as me for unlocking because of that and I agree I too would rather not unlock my ability. He also noticed that ghosting is way too defensive this game this agrees with my views of this game.
Huntzilla Tom told me he was town. I want to lynch him in every game I play. So, I'll just not make any judgment about hunt.
People that I can go either way with.
Shadowlancerx I'm reading him as town, but don't feel like I have enough info on him. He seems to be thinking about the game though.
Vaimes, IDK he hasn't said much yet. But I'm leaning townish.
Mindreaver. He's another enigma to me currently. He has said quite a bit I just don't have a read on him I feel comfortable about I keep wavering back and forth. I do currently feel that he is manufacturing reads, I'm not a 100% certain about that though. And after post 381 I'm wavering even more on him.
I am currently reading Cyth as scum, but I have him in the neutral pile because his early game is actually quite strong after reading through his games and this can be revisited in later days. Silver is sort of in the same pile of Cyth, it is a check back on it later pile. Silver to me strikes me as a player that the more time in game the better my read on him will be.
Lil4leafclover no read.
Scarbo I'm leaning scum on. For example when Tom came into the game he instantly voted Tom, this felt like forced interaction to me. He's just kinda bouncing around following other peoples votes.
Soren is lurking pretty hard.
Now let us start the Ghosting Proph stuff.
First off I don't think either of them are SK's. In a 17 person game there is no reason to accelerate the game to a faster end game. Which is the primary function of an SK. Either way you have to think of this game as a 15 person game now with two claimed “Neutral survivors” because that is what both of their claims effectively are. This screams that this is not the case and that we should not ignore these claims.
That being said. I do not believe both of them.
First off Proph, you said you don't vanilla triggers IE remove the trigger and I'm guessing remove the ability that would be triggered. But let us say that I have triggered my ability and I'm fully online and you target me what then?
Ghosting you claim that proph doesn't stop your ability, since your objective is to activate people's triggers. How does this sit with prophs claim as well. IE how can you think that you two would exist in harmony.
The problem with this “We can all be friends” logic is that clearly both of them were designed to play against each other if it works as they both claim that it works. If it doesn't work as they claim it works then maybe they can be friends, maybe one of them is lying. Etc. Etc.
Ghosting to me seems to be the larger of the two problems. Every time someone talks about him being scum, he goes “Naw that can't be me”. He is very over defensive see posts like 156, 159, 171. 277, 284 the list goes on.
My problem now is that Proph has modded and seen me play quite a bit recently. He knows my game or should have a better idea of it than some. His vote on me is just bizarre to me. Shadow lancer's quip also is the other thing bothering me about this. Proph did claim anti-town, but he said he was going to play pro-town the vote on me is not pro-town and very much so not from him. Shadow lancer's claim hes “Anti-town” what do you expect. Bothers me. So much so that I'm starting to think that maybe Ghosting is just bad this game and that Proph has engineered this great fake claim and in amazing way. If this is true this would lead me to dislike shadowlancer as well because of that one interaction of buddying. Also proph saying that we should “Disregard game setup” is silly to me. I don't agree with him specifically when he uses Mind screw as an example. He should know better than that since he was in that game. I don't like that one bit.
For the moment Unvote. I have some other things to think about.
Who have you found? I'm reading through a few of your games, and usually you have made a lot more statements about alignment than you have by now. Hunt was the only one I could find.
gj as well.
but im not the one that said i was doing it this game. ask ghosting.
im just giving yall the reads as i get them.
D_V, there is enough in the thread to piece together what Ghosting's ability and wincon are. Give it some thought. I'm tempted to just further speculate, but I don't really know if that's in our interests or not. If he was claiming town, I would have clammed up a while ago, but as a neutral... dunno.
I suspect that Proph has a lot more reason to want Ghosting dead than the other way around.
Something seems off about how you're playing this game. I don't usually see you hard defending people like this (not just D_V by the way), and you've said a lot of "I see why you think this, I even get it", to me, and now this, and in other cases as well. I'm not saying you're scum, but it definitely feels like you're acting different.
Really? I feel I'm much better at finding town than scum. And actively fake that when I'm scum.
Hell, I got nightkilled in Twinborn for it.
Who have you found? I'm reading through a few of your games, and usually you have made a lot more statements about alignment than you have by now. Hunt was the only one I could find.
Mind what exactly do you mean about the speculation thing?
Clearly you and I both saw this, are you worried about the mafia having more info because they clearly know the same things as us. In what way does it not benefit us to talk about this?
Honestly, I don't know that it does or doesn't. My hesitance is that if I'm right, Ghosting was 1000% more valuable alive than dead, and I'm not sure if outing him gets him killed.
But reading between those lines, Ghosting probably activates Latent abilities, and probably wins when all latents are activated.
So he wouldn't care if Proph was vanilla-blasting people, as long as it doesn't touch latent abilities too. And he probably don't care if he can't activate them at will, since he doesn't necessarily have to be the one to trigger them to win.
How close am I ghosting?
Assuming I'm close there. Ghosting is making vanillas into non-vanilla; and therefore would be a direct counter to Proph, but not the other way around. Proph, IMO, was meant to be an ability serial killer, and could have played it that way. Ghosting would have been a counter to that. I doubt Bur expected either to claim this quickly.
That still doesn't explain why we're all willing to give proph a chance, with a much more dangerous ability. When only *some* of us are willing to listen to ghosting.
Also, those people with triggers that "would suck if they ever happened" should be targeted by ghosting.
ghosting how would you feel about claiming as well?
If I had wanted to claim any more information about my role, I would have. I'm not reading you as particularly town, which only makes me like this less.
It's been beaten to a horse why it would be ridiculously stupid of me, and would not align with my behaviour even, to fake claim as neutral this early. On top of that, my role is provable, and it's inherently pro-town.
Reading D_V as backing off under pressure, will further analyze his big post later.
ghosting how would you feel about claiming as well?
If I had wanted to claim any more information about my role, I would have. I'm not reading you as particularly town, which only makes me like this less.
It's been beaten to a horse why it would be ridiculously stupid of me, and would not align with my behaviour even, to fake claim as neutral this early. On top of that, my role is provable, and it's inherently pro-town.
Reading D_V as backing off under pressure, will further analyze his big post later.
How the **** are you reading me as backing off when under pressure when you haven't even read what I said?
I'm done with you.
Vote Ghosting
And mindreaver that's not what he claimed. Try again. Read my post.
I believe I have the scum narrowed down to 4-5 possible people, however before i say anything more about them id like for shockwave to have an opportunity to catch up and post first.
Why would you want to wait are your reads really going to change that much?
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Vote Gentleman Johnny
For me, the concern is mostly that he's not the opposite that makes me unsure, but I do agree that if we're giving Proph the benefit of the doubt, we should also give that to Ghosting. In order to do so, though, I also need to see him branch out and do some work, not just fiddle with whatever his abilities are.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I'm with Mindreaver on this, I see no reason to waste our time trying to lynch Ghosting. And if we are being honest, D_V's recent posts haven't been in any way indicative to suggest he wants to logic this out. I think D_V is scum that is afraid of town having better abilities and making the game harder for him.
Vote: D_V
I actually didn't consider that at all, but I'm 99% sure it would do close to nothing. If he can't get rid of factional abilities, and I'm a neutral with factional abilities, it shouldn't matter? In Golden Eye when I was SK, I had the item that removed non-factional abilities, but because I was neutral, it did nothing to me. I'm assuming the same would happen here?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
If Ghosting is already a neutral, I'm pretty sure that Proph's ability wouldn't do anything to him.
Oh crap, I went back and read Proph's original post about his role. It is vanilla, in my head I have been thinking he makes people neutral, not vanilla. I don't know how I misread that so badly originally.
ghosting, is everyone on your wagon scum? you haven't done anything but OMGUS
Unvote
Vote: ghosting
Unvote
Johnny boy where did you go?
But that's a tangent that's probably not worth chasing now. I might bring it up in post-game or one of the theory threads if it's something I think is worth discussing at length.
Rainbow wall:
Silvercrys3467
Mindreaver
Cythare
Jackrito
shadowlancerx
Vaimes
Huntzilla
Ghosting
Prophylaxis
Gentleman Johnny
Sorenblade
scarbo
lil4leafclover
Kosakosa
tomsloger
zomgarcwind
D_V
I will not lynch toDay
Mindreaver, Cythare, and Jack have their heads on straight regarding no lynching vs lynching scum, the Proph neutral claim, and the other events in the thread.
Shadow's made some pretty good posts, and I'm especially a fan of his D_V vote since I agree with it.
I'm in Vaimes' pocket. This is entirely a tone read, and his reads disagree with mine significantly. At some point when we've had a few flips I'll have to re-evaluate.
Huntz has decent tone and is a double voter.
Ghosting and Proph are neutrals. Let's lynch scum toDay, okay? If extra people start showing up dead or something I'll reconsider.
Would prefer to not lynch toDay
GJ. I think him and cyth/mind are town/town/town, but if there's scum in that conversation it's probably him over them. His no lynch play was eh, and the early wagon on him was junk, but I'm not very good at reading him so...
Soren's first few posts were good but he's kind of falling off now.
scarbo seems ok but not amazing.
Would lynch with reservations
lil4leafclover is truly null. First post was ok but hasn't talked much (at all?) since then. Would like to see more.
Kosa's only posts have been saying I'm making scum slips (lol) and backing off of me. That said, he's not made a large number of posts yet and I'm fine with letting him post more.
Would shrug and lynch
tom seems a lot more passive/reactive than normal. In the two games I've played with him (he was town in one and scum in the other) he was generating reactions and posting reads. He's fence sitting a lot this game and I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Could just be he's busy with life/other games, I guess.
zomg... Man. His plan where he wanted to no lynch or lynch a neutral is a red flag, but some others have said it seems more newbish than scummy. I don't know if I agree, and I'd be happy to lynch him if he draws a wagon.
Would lynch with prejudice
D_V. We just did this song and dance in STMU4, and he's trying to lynch a likely neutral instead of scum hunting again.
vote: D_V
Sorry, you're not really fencesitting a ton but I don't like how you're treating D_V. His logic tracks but you barely have an opinion on his alignment? No one looked good to you at all when you came into the thread? Seems questionable to me. And I have a lot of town reads already.
The "you're all scummy" thing was a joke btw.
As for DV:
I don't think the ghosting push is indicative. It's fully in his town range.
Especially after DV and I have lost to SKs 3 times recently (stmu, aa, mindscrew)
DV also won as a jester and lost as a cultist this year.
Do you still think it's weird he's pushing ghosting?
Unvote, vote D_V
Will post more tonight hopefully and answer all questions that have been directed at me.
There's literally no indication of there being an SK in the game as of right now.
Letting an SK go for one day isn't going to screw us over.
There's probably not room in the set up for a full Mafia team, two neutrals, and an SK, so if there's an SK it's one of the two neutrals.
But why Ghosting over Proph then? Just because Ghosting is more likely to lie as a player?
For the record I don't think Ghosting is an SK. I think he is scum and lying about it.
There are 17 of us in this game. IF there are TWO neutrals. That means like 15 real players. That's dumb.
I've got some other thoughts that I'll explain in a little bit safe to say. I'm the bait boys and proph just showed his true colors.
I get you don't like it. I even understand why.
I don't want to lynch ghosting.
All I'm saying is it could absolutely come from town DV.
You could argue with him about it, but I doubt it would do any good either way.
For the record, you said you agreed with this post by Hunt:
So you think I am lying and scum, but agree with the points made here?
That means you think:
1) It nets me nothing as scum
2) I don't have much motivation to do it
3) Don't think I'd be bad enough to do it
That, or you don't actually agree with it, but said you did. Here's the post where you agree so I don't have to prove that later, lol:
Also, you still failed to address the "Why Ghosting and not Proph" question. And you also said earlier that you would still lynch me even if I was a confirmed pro-town neutral. Now why would you do that?
How about this: if you couldn't vote me, who would you vote? Basically: what are your other reads?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Something seems off about how you're playing this game. I don't usually see you hard defending people like this (not just D_V by the way), and you've said a lot of "I see why you think this, I even get it", to me, and now this, and in other cases as well. I'm not saying you're scum, but it definitely feels like you're acting different.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
His true colors being him calling you out for not playing for a town victory while he plays a pro town neutral? You're losing ground here.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Hell, I got nightkilled in Twinborn for it.
I've clearly answered why you over proph. To make it clear since you seem adamant on IDK thinking this game. It's because you claim to be pro-town, and are not voting prop based on the fact that proph is anti-town.
You see the problem right? You must.
Thank you for yet again (this is the third time) me asking for your views.
And that you agreed to a post and now are saying contradictory statements.
And the best part? I've already been asked about the problem, and answered it. More than once.
So you see the problem, right?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
That statement makes no sense what so ever?
You originally claimed that he was the opposite of your role.
How is him being able to vanillafy you have anything to do with that?
Is he not the opposite of your role then? Because the opposite of you would be turning abilities on, and then having everyone have abilities turned on at the end of the game would it not?
Your claim makes no sense at this point.
How do you know he can't vanilafy you?
The only explanation for their being two neutrals like you guys in the game is that you guys are actively playing against each other. Proph hasn't really cared or acknowledged that and neither have you. This is just bizarre to me.
Ghosting (4) - Lil4leafclover, D_V, Huntzilla, Huntzilla
D_V (4) - Ghosting, shadowlancerx, Silvercrys3467, Prophylaxis
Gentleman Johnny (2) - zomgarcwind, Cythare
Mindreaver (1) - Gentleman Johnny
zomgarcwind (1) - Jackrito
Prophylaxis (1) - SorenBlade
Jackrito (1) - tomsloger
Kosakosa (1) - Mindreaver
Not Voting (3) - Vaimes, Kosakosa, Scarbo
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
Deadline is Friday, October 7th, at 11:59 PM EST.
I suspect that Proph has a lot more reason to want Ghosting dead than the other way around.
Who have you found? I'm reading through a few of your games, and usually you have made a lot more statements about alignment than you have by now. Hunt was the only one I could find.
GJ and Tom are in my strong Town pile.
GJ because of gut and play style and everything else I know about him.
Tom because of his entrance, and his willingness to give up information.
Abilities unlock list.
No Lynch: Kosa, zomgacwind
The reason I was pushing this was because I believe that the end design result will be 2 town one scum.
But the third has never claimed. I actually believe both of these players to be town because of this. To me it came very organically and despite what anyone would say volunteering information is very very townie.
So with that in mind our town list looks like this.
GJ, Tom, Kosa Zomg.
Jackrito, also seems town for me for his claim that “He would rather avoid unlocking his ability from how he has to do it.” I think he is the same as me for unlocking because of that and I agree I too would rather not unlock my ability. He also noticed that ghosting is way too defensive this game this agrees with my views of this game.
Huntzilla Tom told me he was town. I want to lynch him in every game I play. So, I'll just not make any judgment about hunt.
People that I can go either way with.
Shadowlancerx I'm reading him as town, but don't feel like I have enough info on him. He seems to be thinking about the game though.
Vaimes, IDK he hasn't said much yet. But I'm leaning townish.
Mindreaver. He's another enigma to me currently. He has said quite a bit I just don't have a read on him I feel comfortable about I keep wavering back and forth. I do currently feel that he is manufacturing reads, I'm not a 100% certain about that though. And after post 381 I'm wavering even more on him.
I am currently reading Cyth as scum, but I have him in the neutral pile because his early game is actually quite strong after reading through his games and this can be revisited in later days. Silver is sort of in the same pile of Cyth, it is a check back on it later pile. Silver to me strikes me as a player that the more time in game the better my read on him will be.
Lil4leafclover no read.
Scarbo I'm leaning scum on. For example when Tom came into the game he instantly voted Tom, this felt like forced interaction to me. He's just kinda bouncing around following other peoples votes.
Soren is lurking pretty hard.
Now let us start the Ghosting Proph stuff.
First off I don't think either of them are SK's. In a 17 person game there is no reason to accelerate the game to a faster end game. Which is the primary function of an SK. Either way you have to think of this game as a 15 person game now with two claimed “Neutral survivors” because that is what both of their claims effectively are. This screams that this is not the case and that we should not ignore these claims.
That being said. I do not believe both of them.
First off Proph, you said you don't vanilla triggers IE remove the trigger and I'm guessing remove the ability that would be triggered. But let us say that I have triggered my ability and I'm fully online and you target me what then?
Ghosting you claim that proph doesn't stop your ability, since your objective is to activate people's triggers. How does this sit with prophs claim as well. IE how can you think that you two would exist in harmony.
The problem with this “We can all be friends” logic is that clearly both of them were designed to play against each other if it works as they both claim that it works. If it doesn't work as they claim it works then maybe they can be friends, maybe one of them is lying. Etc. Etc.
Ghosting to me seems to be the larger of the two problems. Every time someone talks about him being scum, he goes “Naw that can't be me”. He is very over defensive see posts like 156, 159, 171. 277, 284 the list goes on.
My problem now is that Proph has modded and seen me play quite a bit recently. He knows my game or should have a better idea of it than some. His vote on me is just bizarre to me. Shadow lancer's quip also is the other thing bothering me about this. Proph did claim anti-town, but he said he was going to play pro-town the vote on me is not pro-town and very much so not from him. Shadow lancer's claim hes “Anti-town” what do you expect. Bothers me. So much so that I'm starting to think that maybe Ghosting is just bad this game and that Proph has engineered this great fake claim and in amazing way. If this is true this would lead me to dislike shadowlancer as well because of that one interaction of buddying. Also proph saying that we should “Disregard game setup” is silly to me. I don't agree with him specifically when he uses Mind screw as an example. He should know better than that since he was in that game. I don't like that one bit.
For the moment Unvote. I have some other things to think about.
but im not the one that said i was doing it this game. ask ghosting.
im just giving yall the reads as i get them.
ill do it later.
probably.
Mind what exactly do you mean about the speculation thing?
Clearly you and I both saw this, are you worried about the mafia having more info because they clearly know the same things as us. In what way does it not benefit us to talk about this?
But reading between those lines, Ghosting probably activates Latent abilities, and probably wins when all latents are activated.
So he wouldn't care if Proph was vanilla-blasting people, as long as it doesn't touch latent abilities too. And he probably don't care if he can't activate them at will, since he doesn't necessarily have to be the one to trigger them to win.
How close am I ghosting?
Assuming I'm close there. Ghosting is making vanillas into non-vanilla; and therefore would be a direct counter to Proph, but not the other way around. Proph, IMO, was meant to be an ability serial killer, and could have played it that way. Ghosting would have been a counter to that. I doubt Bur expected either to claim this quickly.
That still doesn't explain why we're all willing to give proph a chance, with a much more dangerous ability. When only *some* of us are willing to listen to ghosting.
Also, those people with triggers that "would suck if they ever happened" should be targeted by ghosting.
If I had wanted to claim any more information about my role, I would have. I'm not reading you as particularly town, which only makes me like this less.
It's been beaten to a horse why it would be ridiculously stupid of me, and would not align with my behaviour even, to fake claim as neutral this early. On top of that, my role is provable, and it's inherently pro-town.
Reading D_V as backing off under pressure, will further analyze his big post later.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
How the **** are you reading me as backing off when under pressure when you haven't even read what I said?
I'm done with you.
Vote Ghosting
And mindreaver that's not what he claimed. Try again. Read my post.
I have read what you said, so that conclusion was an unnecessary one.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Oh cool so you going to answer the questions I asked of you in 378 yet?
Talk to other people.
Not saying anymore until I read and see where things are at.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Why would you want to wait are your reads really going to change that much?