Rodemy, relax. I can only speak for myself, but I'm certainly not calling you bad at the game. In fact I've seen you play quite well (Apocalypse comes to mind). You have made yourself obvtown, which is literally the most important thing a townie can do. And if you're scum next-leveling us, then that's even better on your part.
But right now you've gone into a paranoid spiral, and that's counter-productive.
It takes a majority vote to pass a proposal, so if one scum and two town go into a box together, it would still require one town vote for those remaining three scum to push a proposal through.
Thanks for clarifying your alignment there DV. That makes two. If we get three we can send them all off and let them kill one of thier own, then we can switch to the 2twon 1scum method to POE the last. Yeah think that works. What do you think Sep and Rod?
I'm lliking Mindreaver for a solid3rd option. Put those 3 in a box and see what happens.
@Mind: Clarify something for me, is it the fact that I suggested a proposal while another was in play or was it the composition of Group2(dkingsland, Mindreaver, Nykllor) that makes you now think that I could be scum?
@Rodemy: As I explained, it wasn't a sudden reversal on you. I referenced Xyre's Votecount above the post I made and after removing my town reads was left with you three. When I looked back later(when you asked why you were in the group) I realise I'd forgotten about dKingsland, who is lower down my list than you are.
I think Seppel and D_V are doin' hell of a job at levling.
Just my 2 cents and since I'm scum for everybody I might as well just put that out there.
Explain this for me, Hunt and D_V are amonget the scummiest players in the game and you want to put them in a box with Seppel. You realise that's an auto-lose for town right?
@Mind: Clarify something for me, is it the fact that I suggested a proposal while another was in play or was it the composition of Group2(dkingsland, Mindreaver, Nykllor) that makes you now think that I could be scum?
It was the fact that you were pushing that group with or without the flip. I'd vote for that now, although I think Tordeck or D_V are better lynches than Nykllor. But without NaGs flip, I wouldn't have as much confidence in DK.
@Mind: Clarify something for me, is it the fact that I suggested a proposal while another was in play or was it the composition of Group2(dkingsland, Mindreaver, Nykllor) that makes you now think that I could be scum?
@Rodemy: As I explained, it wasn't a sudden reversal on you. I referenced Xyre's Votecount above the post I made and after removing my town reads was left with you three. When I looked back later(when you asked why you were in the group) I realise I'd forgotten about dKingsland, who is lower down my list than you are.
I think Seppel and D_V are doin' hell of a job at levling.
Just my 2 cents and since I'm scum for everybody I might as well just put that out there.
Explain this for me, Hunt and D_V are amonget the scummiest players in the game and you want to put them in a box with Seppel. You realise that's an auto-lose for town right?
We need to lynch D_V. Vote DV.spl
When did YOU start scum reading me?
This game is devolving into chaos...
Maybe not unquestionably town, but look through my posts and find scum motivation in anything I've said. I've been wanting a D_V lynch since I replaced in, do you really believe I would bus this hard?
Calculated risk. You, me, D_V. If you two are scum together I'm lynched and we lose. You and me lynch D_V and we've got dead scum and two confirmed town in the game. From there it gets a hell of a lot easier to POE out the restate of them. If you're unwilling to take that risk then I'll vote for your proposal B, you and Tordeck lynch him.
@D_V: You know there's no way in hell I'm voting for Seppel. Thanks for confirming you're scum.
Maybe not unquestionably town, but look through my posts and find scum motivation in anything I've said. I've been wanting a D_V lynch since I replaced in, do you really believe I would bus this hard?
Calculated risk. You, me, D_V. If you two are scum together I'm lynched and we lose. You and me lynch D_V and we've got dead scum and two confirmed town in the game. From there it gets a hell of a lot easier to POE out the rest of them. If you're unwilling to take that risk then I'll vote for your proposal B, you and Tordeck lynch him.
@D_V: You know there's no way in hell I'm voting for Seppel. Thanks for confirming you're scum.
Now he is down right taunting the town. Can we pass Pan so we can start killing these scum already. I havent been part of a town that crashed and burned and i dont plan to do so now.
Pan is working on the premise that all three are scum. So either Tordeck is scum and they need a town vote to push it through for a mislynch(4 scum + 1 town), or all three are scum and all 5 town will be needed to get the proposal passed. I'm inclined to believe the latter...
I realised this morning that we have to be real careful with our proposals now, if a proposal gets made by a townie that includes 2 scum and 1 town(or three town) they can rush the votes and force it through.
I realised this morning that we have to be real careful with our proposals now, if a proposal gets made by a townie that includes 2 scum and 1 town(or three town) they can rush the votes and force it through.
I said that already.
I don't think it's a safe bet to go for "these three are scum" model. I know this is bias, because I know I'm not scum, but I'd be against Tordeck/DV/Nykllor (my three highest scumreasd). Because the likelihood that I get it just a little wrong, leads to a townkill. I was surprised, that people are responding to Tordeck's proposal, which essentially does exactly that.
If that's what people really want to do, that's fine. I'm voting DV and only DV in there. Hunt will be the deciding vote, so make damn sure that you guys trust him.
(Also I really like DoTA's fearmongering. Either he's scum and we've hit gold, or he's unsure town. In other words, I believe scumDoTA would have pounced on a bad button at this point, especially after my vote of confidence in him.)
(Though short version is this will definitely be my last hosted game, because I think this community is essentially deceased and dragging these things over the finish line is a real chore now that I'm a working stiff. I've got better things to do, tbh. But I'm a big fan of BRB as a concept.)
(Though short version is this will definitely be my last hosted game, because I think this community is essentially deceased and dragging these things over the finish line is a real chore now that I'm a working stiff. I've got better things to do, tbh.)
That is a huge bummer, as I've found some of your games the most interesting to read along.
Followed this pretty closely and I have to say I feel pretty bad for the town. They were essentially shooting bullets blindly, with nowhere to go or any directions to go in. Seppel and dkings played pretty exceptional games, though.
Can relate mafia and work often collide Xyre, and often use mafia as a post work distraction to avoid going crazy... Although at times it seems to drive me even more so.
(Though short version is this will definitely be my last hosted game, because I think this community is essentially deceased and dragging these things over the finish line is a real chore now that I'm a working stiff. I've got better things to do, tbh.)
That is a huge bummer, as I've found some of your games the most interesting to read along.
This setup seemed pretty difficult for the town to win, though?
Four scum in a 12-player game gives the scum an extraordinary amount of thread/gameflow control if they're all active (even with no nightkill or scumchat), and the mechanics of the game makes power wolfing a pretty easy way to scum to win the game. Couple this with the lack of "anchors" (i.e. anything that could give the town a clear direction to go in) and the game feels a bit scumsided, at least to me.
It is an experimental game after all, which means balance is more suspect. I feel like it would be pretty tough, though, to expect the town to solve the game and be able to put the correct people in the boxes without any signs or directions for them to follow. Doubly so, with most of the experienced players being mafia.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Maybe, Prophy. I mentioned this a bit in the spectator QT, but I like that there's a neat parallelism to the game - the scum and town each need to kill four of the other (and the mafia's job gets harder the more members they lose), and the four different permutations of buttons evenly fall two-two in favoring town or scum (and that they're intertwined - 3-0/1-2 vs. 2-1/0-3). For sure, the mafia get the advantage of clarity, but the town (one hopes) could be able to control what goes on simply through additional volume. This is one place where the erratic posting on this site now really undermined things, though, because scum have a much greater incentive (one would think, anyway) to post more than townies, and with more energy.
That being said, the town really got tangled up in being what I'd characterize, in an oversimplification, as the emotional reaction to the setup. At first, they were really confident about how buttons would work in their favor (with Seppel, iirc, as the devil on their shoulder). Then they started to worry about what was going on in the boxes, such that everyone wanted to be in there, and they lost a couple of good analysts to paranoia. And then at the end, they simply didn't think through what was going on and got wrapped up with the fear of what the scum might do while the button was going on - not realizing, of course, that there's no way that the town can "lose" the game preemptively in this setup, save one (at 10 players alive, putting three townies in the box would create a 4-3 split for the scum outside - though the town's basically hosed at that point anyway).
If they'd paused for a moment to consider where they stood, and then sucked in their breath and put Hunt and two certain townies on the button, take him off the board, and then reassess, I think the town could have regained their momentum. But at a certain point, there was so much misinformation, so many proposals flying around, and so little focus that it was just a matter of time before the scum could windmill-slam a proposal.
One thing I think would make the setup better in the future (and, in fact, the version I want to try in real life) is 9 players rather than 12. That would probably make it more streamlined, though admittedly it would slightly worsen the three-townie box problem (townie lynched first, then three-townie box means 2-3 outside, which will quickly end the game). Maybe that would justify adding a townie to make it slightly harder for the scum, especially considering the nuances of IRL mafia. Who knows.
(Also, it should come as no surprise that the original inspiration for the game was trying to come up with a mashup of The Resistance and mafia.)
@ Iso: Eh. I'll still be around, lurking and maybe occasionally playing. It's partly that the things I enjoyed about mafia, i.e. complex setup creation and storytelling, have respectively become nigh-impossible to pull off on this site (*pours one out for Mind Screw*) and something I do with actual pecuniary purpose now. Without those, it's mostly just logistical wrangling, checking prods, and fighting the encroaching sense of dismay when people start griping.
Which isn't to say they're wrong about griping. I just think this site needed a certain level of dynamism to pull off its highest highs, and we've lost so many of the best creators and personalities, that at a certain point it's hard to even get enthusiastic about the cute little perpetual-motion machine Experiments. If the site's ever going to hit those highs again, it's certainly not heading in the right direction, and until it does, it's harder to say "this time will be different. This time won't feel like dragging the carcass."
I thought this game was really interesting sadly so many players lurked I saw not a lot of reason to draw attention to myself until the end at which point I realized the town needed a villain to lynch and that the rest of my buddies were so well entrenched in the town ranks I could just be the bad guy that needed to be lynched.
This is one of those games where lurking/inactivity killed the town. It reminded me of Xymande, we (mostly through Seppel) controlled the discussion for the majority of the game.
A few things:
- For anyone who hasn't read phascogale, I was actually planning to bus Huntzilla there. I'm glad it worked out... always more fun to win with the whole team intact
- I'm amazed how easily Hunt skated after phascogale, and especially after he posted the rant against Seppel ITT.
- Seppel did an exceptional job of playing up paranoia and, as Xyre put it, being the devil on the town's shoulder. Reminds me of Majora's Mask.
- I seriously don't know how anyone thought NaG was scum.
- I wish I had been able to be more active in this game, especially the last few days, but this game reminded me of why I stopped playing Mafia in the first place: I just don't have the time to devote to it.
I don't understand why anyone thinks Deekus is scum.
His first couple posts showed he clearly didn't have a grasp on the rules/mechanics of the game, and that's the kind of stuff scum discuss in pregame. It can be faked by a savvy player, but in this case I think it's legit.
Derpclear accepted.
This is why you should always be wary of derpclears, by the way
As a long-time player of Resistance / Avalon, I felt like I had a bit of an advantage. The town didn't realize any of the intricacies of this setup and I wasn't prepared to tell them.
Also I did an additional experiment -- I literally modeled all my posts from a strong towngame of mine. Pretty sure I even copy/pasted at some point and just changed names. It worked a LOT better than I expected.
As a long-time player of Resistance / Avalon, I felt like I had a bit of an advantage. The town didn't realize any of the intricacies of this setup and I wasn't prepared to tell them.
Also I did an additional experiment -- I literally modeled all my posts from a strong towngame of mine. Pretty sure I even copy/pasted at some point and just changed names. It worked a LOT better than I expected.
Hahaha. I feel like that could have backfired
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
But right now you've gone into a paranoid spiral, and that's counter-productive.
It takes a majority vote to pass a proposal, so if one scum and two town go into a box together, it would still require one town vote for those remaining three scum to push a proposal through.
I'm lliking Mindreaver for a solid3rd option. Put those 3 in a box and see what happens.
Propose and Vote Pan - Mindreaver, DV, Hunt
The Family
Lets get dv.
Please?
I'll take the risk.
For those of us who don't see through seppel colored glasses,
please explain what he is doing.
@Mind: Clarify something for me, is it the fact that I suggested a proposal while another was in play or was it the composition of Group2(dkingsland, Mindreaver, Nykllor) that makes you now think that I could be scum?
@Rodemy: As I explained, it wasn't a sudden reversal on you. I referenced Xyre's Votecount above the post I made and after removing my town reads was left with you three. When I looked back later(when you asked why you were in the group) I realise I'd forgotten about dKingsland, who is lower down my list than you are.
Explain this for me, Hunt and D_V are amonget the scummiest players in the game and you want to put them in a box with Seppel. You realise that's an auto-lose for town right?
We need to lynch D_V.
Vote DV.spl
(5 to pass)
Aleph: D_V, Rodemy, Seppel
2 - Seppel, Rodemy
Fishfingers: D_V, Huntzilla, Seppel
1 - Nykllor
PersonalPreference: dkingsland967, Mindreaver, Tordeck
1 - Mindreaver
Pan: D_V, Huntzilla, Mindreaver
2 - Tordeck, D_V
DV.spl: DoTArchon, D_V, Seppel
1 - DoTArchon
Active Proposals
None
CounterKakapo: dkingsland967, Mindreaver, Nykllor
FROG: DoTArchon, Huntzilla, Mindreaver
SMD: DoTArchon, Mindreaver, Seppel
DieScum: DoTArchon, Rodemy, Seppel
Alpha: DoTArchon, Seppel, Tordeck
Instinct: D_V, Huntzilla, Rodemy
Stakeout: D_V, Seppel, Tordeck
GreatProposal: Huntzilla, Mindreaver, Seppel
PRICK: Huntzilla, Rodemy, Tordeck
SHuT: Huntzilla, Seppel, Tordeck
Leftovers: Mindreaver, Nykllor, Rodemy
Mystic: Mindreaver, Seppel, Tordeck
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
When did YOU start scum reading me?
This game is devolving into chaos...
I can't even tell who's voting for what.
@Mod Vote count please
I'm too unsure about DoTA to support DV_Spl.
Unvote, vote Pan
Calculated risk. You, me, D_V. If you two are scum together I'm lynched and we lose. You and me lynch D_V and we've got dead scum and two confirmed town in the game. From there it gets a hell of a lot easier to POE out the restate of them. If you're unwilling to take that risk then I'll vote for your proposal B, you and Tordeck lynch him.
@D_V: You know there's no way in hell I'm voting for Seppel. Thanks for confirming you're scum.
Do I?
The Family
I'm 80% sure that DoTA is town after that post.
I don't think it's a safe bet to go for "these three are scum" model. I know this is bias, because I know I'm not scum, but I'd be against Tordeck/DV/Nykllor (my three highest scumreasd). Because the likelihood that I get it just a little wrong, leads to a townkill. I was surprised, that people are responding to Tordeck's proposal, which essentially does exactly that.
If that's what people really want to do, that's fine. I'm voting DV and only DV in there. Hunt will be the deciding vote, so make damn sure that you guys trust him.
None of DV, Hunt, or Mindreaver are voting for it, so I think we've struck gold.
DV even jumped off of it when I placed my vote (3rd vote).
The Family
VOTE Pan
(5 to pass)
Aleph: D_V, Rodemy, Seppel
2 - Rodemy
Fishfingers: D_V, Huntzilla, Seppel
1 - Nykllor
PersonalPreference: dkingsland967, Mindreaver, Tordeck
1 - Mindreaver
Pan: D_V, Huntzilla, Mindreaver
5 - Tordeck, Seppel, D_V, Huntzilla, dkingsland967
DV.spl: DoTArchon, D_V, Seppel
1 - DoTArchon
Active Proposals
None
CounterKakapo: dkingsland967, Mindreaver, Nykllor
FROG: DoTArchon, Huntzilla, Mindreaver
SMD: DoTArchon, Mindreaver, Seppel
DieScum: DoTArchon, Rodemy, Seppel
Alpha: DoTArchon, Seppel, Tordeck
Instinct: D_V, Huntzilla, Rodemy
Stakeout: D_V, Seppel, Tordeck
GreatProposal: Huntzilla, Mindreaver, Seppel
PRICK: Huntzilla, Rodemy, Tordeck
SHuT: Huntzilla, Seppel, Tordeck
Leftovers: Mindreaver, Nykllor, Rodemy
Mystic: Mindreaver, Seppel, Tordeck
Game over. The space mafia - dkingsland967, D_V, Huntzilla, and Seppel - have captured the clicky buttons. Truly the galaxy is doomed.
Spectator - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/3Kq9w9GRuk2a
phascogale - https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/cknEFnYHGMxQd
Bobblegong - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/w3PTQgUg8EW
Scumtrio - https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/XMnfHBQ37TXj
Pan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6_zsJ8KPP0
Some thoughts coming in the morning.
(Though short version is this will definitely be my last hosted game, because I think this community is essentially deceased and dragging these things over the finish line is a real chore now that I'm a working stiff. I've got better things to do, tbh. But I'm a big fan of BRB as a concept.)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Followed this pretty closely and I have to say I feel pretty bad for the town. They were essentially shooting bullets blindly, with nowhere to go or any directions to go in. Seppel and dkings played pretty exceptional games, though.
Well played scum.
Damn. But that's the way it goes.
Can relate mafia and work often collide Xyre, and often use mafia as a post work distraction to avoid going crazy... Although at times it seems to drive me even more so.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Time comes for us all. *shrug*
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Four scum in a 12-player game gives the scum an extraordinary amount of thread/gameflow control if they're all active (even with no nightkill or scumchat), and the mechanics of the game makes power wolfing a pretty easy way to scum to win the game. Couple this with the lack of "anchors" (i.e. anything that could give the town a clear direction to go in) and the game feels a bit scumsided, at least to me.
It is an experimental game after all, which means balance is more suspect. I feel like it would be pretty tough, though, to expect the town to solve the game and be able to put the correct people in the boxes without any signs or directions for them to follow. Doubly so, with most of the experienced players being mafia.
I think the most amusing part of this game was the proposal names.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That being said, the town really got tangled up in being what I'd characterize, in an oversimplification, as the emotional reaction to the setup. At first, they were really confident about how buttons would work in their favor (with Seppel, iirc, as the devil on their shoulder). Then they started to worry about what was going on in the boxes, such that everyone wanted to be in there, and they lost a couple of good analysts to paranoia. And then at the end, they simply didn't think through what was going on and got wrapped up with the fear of what the scum might do while the button was going on - not realizing, of course, that there's no way that the town can "lose" the game preemptively in this setup, save one (at 10 players alive, putting three townies in the box would create a 4-3 split for the scum outside - though the town's basically hosed at that point anyway).
If they'd paused for a moment to consider where they stood, and then sucked in their breath and put Hunt and two certain townies on the button, take him off the board, and then reassess, I think the town could have regained their momentum. But at a certain point, there was so much misinformation, so many proposals flying around, and so little focus that it was just a matter of time before the scum could windmill-slam a proposal.
One thing I think would make the setup better in the future (and, in fact, the version I want to try in real life) is 9 players rather than 12. That would probably make it more streamlined, though admittedly it would slightly worsen the three-townie box problem (townie lynched first, then three-townie box means 2-3 outside, which will quickly end the game). Maybe that would justify adding a townie to make it slightly harder for the scum, especially considering the nuances of IRL mafia. Who knows.
(Also, it should come as no surprise that the original inspiration for the game was trying to come up with a mashup of The Resistance and mafia.)
@ Iso: Eh. I'll still be around, lurking and maybe occasionally playing. It's partly that the things I enjoyed about mafia, i.e. complex setup creation and storytelling, have respectively become nigh-impossible to pull off on this site (*pours one out for Mind Screw*) and something I do with actual pecuniary purpose now. Without those, it's mostly just logistical wrangling, checking prods, and fighting the encroaching sense of dismay when people start griping.
Which isn't to say they're wrong about griping. I just think this site needed a certain level of dynamism to pull off its highest highs, and we've lost so many of the best creators and personalities, that at a certain point it's hard to even get enthusiastic about the cute little perpetual-motion machine Experiments. If the site's ever going to hit those highs again, it's certainly not heading in the right direction, and until it does, it's harder to say "this time will be different. This time won't feel like dragging the carcass."
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Look back at your prediction post... you were very close!
Sorry you couldn't kill me Tordeck.
A few things:
- For anyone who hasn't read phascogale, I was actually planning to bus Huntzilla there. I'm glad it worked out... always more fun to win with the whole team intact
- I'm amazed how easily Hunt skated after phascogale, and especially after he posted the rant against Seppel ITT.
- Seppel did an exceptional job of playing up paranoia and, as Xyre put it, being the devil on the town's shoulder. Reminds me of Majora's Mask.
- I seriously don't know how anyone thought NaG was scum.
- I wish I had been able to be more active in this game, especially the last few days, but this game reminded me of why I stopped playing Mafia in the first place: I just don't have the time to devote to it.
This is why you should always be wary of derpclears, by the way
I. CALLED. IT.
GAAAHHHHH
As a long-time player of Resistance / Avalon, I felt like I had a bit of an advantage. The town didn't realize any of the intricacies of this setup and I wasn't prepared to tell them.
Also I did an additional experiment -- I literally modeled all my posts from a strong towngame of mine. Pretty sure I even copy/pasted at some point and just changed names. It worked a LOT better than I expected.
Hahaha. I feel like that could have backfired