I saw your recent posts DV. Yes, you're bad at rereading if you were asking for a serious response. I believe Silver already corrected you as far as your mistakes in reviewing Half's posts wrt to how he views TS. Needless to say Numbers doesn't town read TS at all. At best he leans null on him at some points. At one point (the Kosa situation) he mentions being able to see a town *and* scum mindset for how TS reacts at a certain spot. Ultimately he views TS as scummy over that situation. Not town orientated in the mind.
I know TS and Silver have a thing going on (sorry Silver, I feel for you), but I'm at a tired point to go through it atm.
omg, yes you did make mistakes. You're literally misquoting Half and asserting something that isn't the case wrt to how he views TS.
Spoiler code better work the way I think it does.
[spoiler]
1.
Given that half your points on TS seem to apply to silver instead, fable, he might have a point that you aren't paying close enough attention. At least that's where the witch hunting comments seem to lead to me, as TS was talking about hypothetical witch hunting and silver was the one that said he wasn't witch hunting him in the specific. I think both sides of that are being a bit poorly misrepresented as silver was never indicating additional shade be thrown to better players, rather not cutting them extra slack. Kind of opposite sides of the same coin. It seems to me that those involved in this are only looking at one side. Somebody says don't give them a pass. The other side looks at that as throw extra shade on them and vice versa. In reality though playing them straight up means no passes and no extra shade and saying one isn't indicative of the other.
There is no assertion here either way that TS is town or scum.
2.
TS - I kinda don't like this guy's holy-er than thou posting mentality with all his talk of player level and what have you. Given Chris made a similar comment about hardware though, I take it you guys put a lot of stock in your track records. Personally I find that dumb, but I am a Johnny not a Spike. **********Null lean**********.
Null lean.
3.
@TS, that blurb was commentary on basically how you present yourself and not necessarily your game play. I made the Johnny-Spike correlation because I don't believe we should all be of one mind but the difference in our mentalities will likely result in me being a bit stand offish with you because of it. Rather than wait until we actually do clash, I figured I'd be forth coming in my perspective. If that makes sense to you.
Still Null lean (a continuation from 2).
4 and 5.
"I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing.
TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post.
I mean, seriously.
6.
[quote]
The TS and DV situations are different from the start. With TS I analyzed what Kosa was leveling at him and then presented my opinion of the situation. If you took out the first half, you'd have something more closely resembling the DV situation, as I'd merely be presenting a read rather than analysis of somebody else's read in addition to my own.
Meaning he reads TS less scummy compared to you DV. That doesn't mean he reads TS as town because, as Half directly stated, he viewed TS as scummy for his burial post on Kosa. If you remove the first part of Half's analysis (like he says in the quote), then you get a situation in which TS would measure up to the same level of scummyness you do wrt to trying to lynch Kosa with ill intent.
7. Give me a break DV. Half never stated TS is town or maintained that TS had a town mindset. The best he did, as I noted many many posts ago wrt to TS misreping Half -- or maybe it was you trying to do it again now, is null read TS. He has directly stated that he leaned scum on TS's actions in the Kosa situation. Also, ty for quoting that particular post from Half.
DV
Sure it was bandwangoning, but it still was "With a town mindset as he first established in his first few posts"
And that was Day 1.
So he never did say that TS was anti-town and did say multiple times that he had a Town Mindset.
He never asserted it was ***just*** a town mindset. He stated he could see it happening as either alignment. He doesn't state TS has a town mindset as his opinion. His opinion ranges from null at start to scum lean with the Kosa stuff. Also, if we're going to play word games, then you're right. Half never did say TS was strictly anti-town. Nor did Half ever say TS is town or have a town mindset (whether as opinion or fact). What Half has said is that he leans scum on TS.
@KoD-I do have things to say about Tom. Quite a bit actually. I have notes on each player. Though I stopped keeping notes over the last 48 hours due to frustration. I'm trying not to get sucked in on Crystal's replies to me.
It's frustrating me that he says I'm 70% town and that I'm his top lynch choice. That's piss poor town play. You DON'T lynch your town reads on day two.
You're not reading that post in its entirety DV. At all. You're taking a partial assessment of TS that Half has made in that post and attributing it to Half must be town reading TS. Or viewing TS has a town mindset or w/e it is you're trying to argue. You're ignoring the rest of Half's assessment where he goes on to say that despite the previous stuff, it doesn't take away from Kosa's point about TS and that TS's intent comes off as wanting to bury Kosa.
I saw your recent posts DV. Yes, you're bad at rereading if you were asking for a serious response. I believe Silver already corrected you as far as your mistakes in reviewing Half's posts wrt to how he views TS. Needless to say Numbers doesn't town read TS at all. At best he leans null on him at some points. At one point (the Kosa situation) he mentions being able to see a town *and* scum mindset for how TS reacts at a certain spot. Ultimately he views TS as scummy over that situation. Not town orientated in the mind.
I know TS and Silver have a thing going on (sorry Silver, I feel for you), but I'm at a tired point to go through it atm.
omg, yes you did make mistakes. You're literally misquoting Half and asserting something that isn't the case wrt to how he views TS.
Spoiler code better work the way I think it does.
[spoiler]
1.
Given that half your points on TS seem to apply to silver instead, fable, he might have a point that you aren't paying close enough attention. At least that's where the witch hunting comments seem to lead to me, as TS was talking about hypothetical witch hunting and silver was the one that said he wasn't witch hunting him in the specific. I think both sides of that are being a bit poorly misrepresented as silver was never indicating additional shade be thrown to better players, rather not cutting them extra slack. Kind of opposite sides of the same coin. It seems to me that those involved in this are only looking at one side. Somebody says don't give them a pass. The other side looks at that as throw extra shade on them and vice versa. In reality though playing them straight up means no passes and no extra shade and saying one isn't indicative of the other.
There is no assertion here either way that TS is town or scum.
2.
TS - I kinda don't like this guy's holy-er than thou posting mentality with all his talk of player level and what have you. Given Chris made a similar comment about hardware though, I take it you guys put a lot of stock in your track records. Personally I find that dumb, but I am a Johnny not a Spike. **********Null lean**********.
Null lean.
3.
@TS, that blurb was commentary on basically how you present yourself and not necessarily your game play. I made the Johnny-Spike correlation because I don't believe we should all be of one mind but the difference in our mentalities will likely result in me being a bit stand offish with you because of it. Rather than wait until we actually do clash, I figured I'd be forth coming in my perspective. If that makes sense to you.
Still Null lean (a continuation from 2).
4 and 5.
"I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing.
TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post.
I mean, seriously.
6.
[quote]
The TS and DV situations are different from the start. With TS I analyzed what Kosa was leveling at him and then presented my opinion of the situation. If you took out the first half, you'd have something more closely resembling the DV situation, as I'd merely be presenting a read rather than analysis of somebody else's read in addition to my own.
Meaning he reads TS less scummy compared to you DV. That doesn't mean he reads TS as town because, as Half directly stated, he viewed TS as scummy for his burial post on Kosa. If you remove the first part of Half's analysis (like he says in the quote), then you get a situation in which TS would measure up to the same level of scummyness you do wrt to trying to lynch Kosa with ill intent.
7. Give me a break DV. Half never stated TS is town or maintained that TS had a town mindset. The best he did, as I noted many many posts ago wrt to TS misreping Half -- or maybe it was you trying to do it again now, is null read TS. He has directly stated that he leaned scum on TS's actions in the Kosa situation. Also, ty for quoting that particular post from Half.
DV
Sure it was bandwangoning, but it still was "With a town mindset as he first established in his first few posts"
And that was Day 1.
So he never did say that TS was anti-town and did say multiple times that he had a Town Mindset.
He never asserted it was ***just*** a town mindset. He stated he could see it happening as either alignment. He doesn't state TS has a town mindset as his opinion. His opinion ranges from null at start to scum lean with the Kosa stuff. Also, if we're going to play word games, then you're right. Half never did say TS was strictly anti-town. Nor did Half ever say TS is town or have a town mindset (whether as opinion or fact). What Half has said is that he leans scum on TS.
Do I just suck at reading Comprehension?
</blockquote>
How about you let Half defend himself? This is a bit ridiculous the level of defense you have to do for him. You might be right you might be wrong but for godssake let the man fight a couple battles for himself KoD.
You've got no room at all to talk about piss poor town play TS. You're acting like your the greatest gift to town, but you are not carrying yourself like it in any respect.
The only reason I unvoted you was so you could post content concerning Tom. I didn't unvote you just so you could hand feed me bull@#^& "I'll be doing that" while you continually sling mud and insults.
Actually screw it. You've already shown a tendency to not deliver on arguments (reference: Half's point about you dropping an argument once Fable came up and never picking up on the argument again -- the post I thanked DV for quoting as it pertains to what Half was talking about wrt to you). You tell me you have notes. It's been close to like 20 hours or so since I unvoted and you could post that stuff. Instead you give me excuses.
Vote: TS
If that doesn't hammer you, then I hope someone does hammer you so you flip and the game can continue.
No, don't even give me that bs TS. This argument over how TS was reading you came up a while back already where you misrepresented (and I'm sure DV did the same to) Half's view on you and I stated going through Half's ISO and seeing exactly what I just posted here. I believe Half even came in later to give a nod in my direction concerning that.
I've got some advice for you though: Go and fact check instead of lying about players.
You've got no room at all to talk about piss poor town play TS. You're acting like your the greatest gift to town, but you are not carrying yourself like it in any respect.
The only reason I unvoted you was so you could post content concerning Tom. I didn't unvote you just so you could hand feed me bull@#^& "I'll be doing that" while you continually sling mud and insults.
Actually screw it. You've already shown a tendency to not deliver on arguments (reference: Half's point about you dropping an argument once Fable came up and never picking up on the argument again -- the post I thanked DV for quoting as it pertains to what Half was talking about wrt to you). You tell me you have notes. It's been close to like 20 hours or so since I unvoted and you could post that stuff. Instead you give me excuses.
Vote: TS
If that doesn't hammer you, then I hope someone does hammer you so you flip and the game can continue.
You've had 20 hours :rollout:?? Well yes, and most of that was sleep and then me going directly to work which I warned about. i am at work now. So you actually haven't given me any time to answer it. I've been able to post answers back in forth to all the flash by comments but not get into my notes which are in my apartment.
You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap. Instead you are indulging in flinging mud and making excuses while also saying you'll get to it. Perhaps next time you'll utilize your time better and post something serious instead of posting bs.
No, don't even give me that bs TS. This argument over how TS was reading you came up a while back already where you misrepresented (and I'm sure DV did the same to) Half's view on you and I stated going through Half's ISO and seeing exactly what I just posted here. I believe Half even came in later to give a nod in my direction concerning that.
I've got some advice for you though: Go and fact check instead of lying about players.
Why would I take advice from someone who is defending scum? Is HT not a big boy? He can't defend himself?
And you didn't give anytime to post my Tom notes don't try to lie. I mentioned what time I got home, went to bed and then to work, where I still am.
You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap. Instead you are indulging in flinging mud and making excuses while also saying you'll get to it. Perhaps next time you'll utilize your time better and post something serious instead of posting bs.
I love how you call TS arrogant, and pull this.
Both you and Silver are guilty of the same thing. The hypocrisy is strong.
You're not reading that post in its entirety DV. At all. You're taking a partial assessment of TS that Half has made in that post and attributing it to Half must be town reading TS. Or viewing TS has a town mindset or w/e it is you're trying to argue. You're ignoring the rest of Half's assessment where he goes on to say that despite the previous stuff, it doesn't take away from Kosa's point about TS and that TS's intent comes off as wanting to bury Kosa.
But that's my point.
It doesn't flow right?
You are just reading the end result, but the points given ahead of it don't really add up.
The post really doesn't say much of anything if you take the time to read it over and over again. The more I read it the more I see how flimsy wobbly it is. It's kinda saying one thing, but it kinda saying another its like HT is waiting to see how the town moves and then go with that flow. It's part of this overall play style of wait and have stuff brought to him its very much not a towny way of playing the game.
You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap. Instead you are indulging in flinging mud and making excuses while also saying you'll get to it. Perhaps next time you'll utilize your time better and post something serious instead of posting bs.
I love how you call TS arrogant, and pull this.
Both you and Silver are guilty of the same thing. The hypocrisy is strong.
To be honest, it's just disappointing. If they are both town it's just a head scratcher. I can admit I'm arrogant. As are many of the top players on this site. It's not a negative to be arrogant, BUT it's arrogant to try to eliminate a team mate BECAUSE of your arrogance. And that is what Crystal has messed up to with his "You are likely town, but I want you dead garbage". and we have KoD here trying to tell me where my notes are? Really? They are in my mafia notebook on my coffee table.
What's up with the misrep KoD?
Prove your statement "You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap."
You said you like to use facts and tell the truth. This is a LIE. A bold faced LIE. Show me your proof.
That's what I thought....hypocrite.
Defending scum and pushing town based on arrogance.
No, DV. The post does flow. The assessments Half makes doesn't imply TS has a town mindset. What was one word he used in that post? Coincidental? How he acts mindstate-wise came off to Half as possibly either alignment. Regardless of that, TS still acting in a scummy way which Half asserts. The post flows just fine. You're literally just misreping him as is evident from the others posts where you call out "pro town TS" feels from Half (that or you're bad at reading).
Also, I'm a lot more tame compared to TS in the arrogance department. Fact is, TS has a bad record with doing something (not to mention a bad record at misrepresenting players). I feel completely fine writing him off at this point.
@TS: Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. What was all that bluster you gave the thread about doing stuff and what have you? Take your own words for advice then if not mine.
If I'm guilty of hypocrisy, then prove it. Go back into the thread and pull up examples of me misreping and throw it in my face. Otherwise what are you doing? Throwing mud with no substance behind it?
As for Half, do you not understand what a null read is? You're saying Half is reading TS as town at one point, then doing a 180 the next. That's not the case. You're, quite literally, doing a bad job at reading. End of story.
@TS again:
Where are your notes about Tom then? Why haven't you posted then? Gee, probably because you're too busy making excuses and throwing mud to do anything useful. Call that a misrep if you want. I'm calling it exactly how it is. A scum player who is trying to stir up whatever he can to avoid dying.
Hey TS, you say you have notes right? Then why haven't you posted a thing about it concerning Tom? Because you're too busy eating, sleeping, working, and taking breaks to cool down to do something useful?
How about you spare me your bs. Rather than actually do any of your note posting about Tom after I had unvoted you over that, all you did was go and engage in #@$^. And all you have to show for it is the crap you keep spewing. So if you got your notes post them. Otherwise cry less that you'll get lynched before you can "contribute" your so called "useful" opinion.
No, DV. The post does flow. The assessments Half makes doesn't imply TS has a town mindset. What was one word he used in that post? Coincidental? How he acts mindstate-wise came off to Half as possibly either alignment. Regardless of that, TS still acting in a scummy way which Half asserts. The post flows just fine. You're literally just misreping him as is evident from the others posts where you call out "pro town TS" feels from Half (that or you're bad at reading).
Also, I'm a lot more tame compared to TS in the arrogance department. Fact is, TS has a bad record with doing something (not to mention a bad record at misrepresenting players). I feel completely fine writing him off at this point.
@TS: Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. What was all that bluster you gave the thread about doing stuff and what have you? Take your own words for advice then if not mine.
No dude it doesn't.
How can a purely coincidental post also be wagoning?
Kosa point in that matter was that "Had not brought him up yet, and was being opportunistic"
Yet, HT very clearly states that is not the case.
He then goes on to say the only thing that he(HT) found valid was the burial post, but he didn't really say a lot about it and most of it was fluff. Basically how that reads is if someone made a strong case that the post in question didn't matter, then he would drop it.
But then we go to leaning scum, but in a way that is wishy washy that could be dropped at any time, because of course the house of cards is only being held up by one card. It is just going with the flow.
I think you are being too literal with your analysis. Instead of looking at the theme of how it is presented. It's all wishy washy sorta mumbo jumbo, he's kinda saying pro-town, he is kinda saying not town. Its the intent, and frankly the intent is pretty meh.
So, you are lynching TS because you disagree with his play style to be clear?
How is that pro-town? Or even trying to win?
If I'm guilty of hypocrisy, then prove it. Go back into the thread and pull up examples of me misreping and throw it in my face. Otherwise what are you doing? Throwing mud with no substance behind it?
As for Half, do you not understand what a null read is? You're saying Half is reading TS as town at one point, then doing a 180 the next. That's not the case. You're, quite literally, doing a bad job at reading. End of story.
@TS again:
Where are your notes about Tom then? Why haven't you posted then? Gee, probably because you're too busy making excuses and throwing mud to do anything useful. Call that a misrep if you want. I'm calling it exactly how it is. A scum player who is trying to stir up whatever he can to avoid dying.
No, that is not what I am saying. I never said that. I said he is allowing himself outs best way for me to phrase it.
And I never said you misrepresented people this is about the arrogance part that you and Silver seem to be so hung up on.
If I'm guilty of hypocrisy, then prove it. Go back into the thread and pull up examples of me misreping and throw it in my face. Otherwise what are you doing? Throwing mud with no substance behind it?
As for Half, do you not understand what a null read is? You're saying Half is reading TS as town at one point, then doing a 180 the next. That's not the case. You're, quite literally, doing a bad job at reading. End of story.
@TS again:
Where are your notes about Tom then? Why haven't you posted then? Gee, probably because you're too busy making excuses and throwing mud to do anything useful. Call that a misrep if you want. I'm calling it exactly how it is. A scum player who is trying to stir up whatever he can to avoid dying.
You said you know where my notes are. Please prove it. You said you like telling the truth and not mudslinging but you have been caught red-handed.
But enough of this.
I'm getting off work, gonna have a nice walk and then get D_V is T/S list. If KoD is going to continue to demand Tom notes then he should be removing his vote that he placed their out of frustration.
I have somethings I want to say so hopefully I'm not hammered before I get to finish.
If I'm guilty of hypocrisy, then prove it. Go back into the thread and pull up examples of me misreping and throw it in my face. Otherwise what are you doing? Throwing mud with no substance behind it?
As for Half, do you not understand what a null read is? You're saying Half is reading TS as town at one point, then doing a 180 the next. That's not the case. You're, quite literally, doing a bad job at reading. End of story.
@TS again:
Where are your notes about Tom then? Why haven't you posted then? Gee, probably because you're too busy making excuses and throwing mud to do anything useful. Call that a misrep if you want. I'm calling it exactly how it is. A scum player who is trying to stir up whatever he can to avoid dying.
You said you know where my notes are. Please prove it. You said you like telling the truth and not mudslinging but you have been caught red-handed.
But enough of this.
I'm getting off work, gonna have a nice walk and then get D_V is T/S list. If KoD is going to continue to demand Tom notes then he should be removing his vote that he placed their out of frustration.
I have somethings I want to say so hopefully I'm not hammered before I get to finish.
Cool thanks man.
I wouldn't worry about him too much. Anyone who wants to talk about "Proper plays" and then votes someone for reasons of "I don't like you".
Well what ever, but that isn't good play of any strict sense and if he actually understood how logic worked he would never use that vote. But as always the people that use that word the most are mostly the ones that really just don't have a clue.
Yeah it does DV. You're just not reading it right.
Also, how can it not be? Half talks about TS's vote for Kosa as well as Rhand's vote for Kosa, and he mentions his opinion that TS probably missed Rhand voting for Kosa as well which led to a *coincidental* pileup of their votes going onto Kosa. The wagoning isn't even the issue for Half though. Nothing about that entire statement from Half indicates that TS has a town mindset over a scum mindset and viceversa. What Half focuses on is why TS goes after Kosa which is referred to as the burial post. That's scummy.
"This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. "
I'm done with you DV. Learn to read. Half stated Kosa had a very valid point. Whatever the crap is you're spewing, I can't even.
Oh you're asking me why I'm lynching TS? Was that not clear already?
jesus ******* christ.
this is too contentious for me guys.
lets get this TS lynch done and all take the night to remember its just a game.
i hope that KoD vote was the hammer and that we can all just be chill tomorrow.
dude, i dont care about your t/s list. and i read very little of the last ~50 posts.
if people want to wait, thats fine. my vote is already in the right place.
but i am 100% sure that we arent making any progress in this game until youre dead. youve made quite sure of that.
we are well past the point that even if you somehow flip town i will still feel fantastic about the lynch.
KoD
D_V
Mindreaver
TappingStones
Col_Mongoose (dead)
SirChris(dead)
As requested by D_V. Hope it's helpful. The top one is assuredly scum, Tomsloger looks good too. On my reread I still don't like Rhand's slot but it's gone silent. So I'll just keep my read where it is. As I've been saying, Crystal is linked to a scum HT (case is in thread), it's not a hard one to follow.
Not sure if I will get a chance later but should I not survive today I wanted to say I've been super impressed with the way Mindreaver and D_V have slogged through mudslinging and faulty logic that has been thrown at them. They stuck to their guns. It was especially bold considering they didn't care that they were fighting a fight that I was involved in. If either of you are scum, bravo. I don't think that's the case, though.
@D_V-Don't let Crystal, KoD, or HT push your buttons. Crystal churned up some pretty strong emotion from me and it's regrettable as I was looking forward to playing with him. But it is what it is.
HT was doomed from the beginning because his style in this game was to let things come to him and he has had no sense of urgency in terms of using each day to learn new things and push reads.
Tomsolger was shaky when he was pushing Crystal as the borg. Look back at his degree of certainty, pretty gross.
Tom, KoD, and Crystal are all getting called out here for admitting that they are ok lynching town. Completely indefensible position. Those pushes to miss lynch town make Fable's scum claim look like a mastermind's plan in comparison.
You don't EVER, EVER lynch people you have a strong town read on.
That's all on the T/S list for now. If for some reason some people want to swallow their pride, salvage some dignity in this game and help us catch the scum that would be great. HT and Tom are the best lynches for today and I'm really excited to reread after one of them flips.
So, you're refusing to go look for the thing that you claim I misrepresented you over in the first place? Or you just can't admit you're wrong, one of the two.
Like, my 65-70% town thing is pure gut. Your actions over the past ~48 hours have been completely outrageous and I have every right to be offended at your display of poor sportsmanship. But whatever. I'm over it now, since obviously you're just going to keep ignoring it. I just can't stand how smug you are, saying other people need to swallow their pride. Why don't you start TS? Swallow your pride. Go back and look at what actually happened instead of assuming you're right. Then I'll swallow mine and we'll see what happens.
For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping.
While the fact is that I was finally convinced to place my vote on you for selfish reasons, there's more than enough evidence to make me comfortable lynching you. I just feel, in my gut, that you'll flip town for reasons I can't quite explain.
So, you're refusing to go look for the thing that you claim I misrepresented you over in the first place? Or you just can't admit you're wrong, one of the two.
Like, my 65-70% town thing is pure gut. Your actions over the past ~48 hours have been completely outrageous and I have every right to be offended at your display of poor sportsmanship. But whatever. I'm over it now, since obviously you're just going to keep ignoring it. I just can't stand how smug you are, saying other people need to swallow their pride. Why don't you start TS? Swallow your pride. Go back and look at what actually happened instead of assuming you're right. Then I'll swallow mine and we'll see what happens.
For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping.
While the fact is that I was finally convinced to place my vote on you for selfish reasons, there's more than enough evidence to make me comfortable lynching you. I just feel, in my gut, that you'll flip town for reasons I can't quite explain.
You continue to vote for someone you say is town and you ask me to change my thinking?
Where does this arrogance come from? Make me understand when you became this player that refuses to accept anyone else's arguments and votes to kill town players? That's the real you? Are you trying to blame all your free actions on me?
"TS I'm voting you even though I'm 70% sure you are town because you upset me. Now go ahead and reevaluate yourself and maybe I'll change my mind." You son;t see how bad the things you are doing really are, do you? D_V, Mindreaver and I have all given our reasoning for why HT is scum. You continue to highlight D_V but I mean how much mudslinging and misrepresenting has HT been guilty of?
I hope you learn something from this.
1)Never lynch town reads. This is something no one should have to be told. It's childish, petty, and shows that you stoop to whatever lows you can to try and spite someone. Your only hurting yourself. I can't win alone and I certainly can't lose alone. Killing me just gives you one less "friend" to count on for the next day. SC didn't lose because he got killed, he's still has a potential win because he's town too. We have two players who have already died hoping we do the right thing and I'm here waiting for you to be a grown-up.
2)I said read the quote from nachomamma in my sig. That would tell you I put my emotions into the game and when I think someone is angle shooting and not playing in a gentlemanly manner I can fly off the handle. Rational and sensible people can see what i'm doing is for the good of town. You were a part of something that got me livid. And you have every right to be angry and frustrated. Even co-workers, best friends, husbands and wives yell and fight with each other and say awful things but they usually don't let an argument lead to someone's death(figuratively).
3)The truth is that you still have a choice. You feel like you shouldn;t be the first one to give but in reality you have to. If you don't then you've lost the only game that really matters. You don;t know what's going on in the lives of others, perhaps people lashed out for other reasons, perhaps they really think you're trying to be malicious. Should your response be "How dare you feel offended and frustrated, die town!"
4)Tom is likely scum as well. A town!crystal who believed so much in HT and was 70% sure on TS would probably be on Tom right now and maybe salvage a sweet catch out of a slog of a day.
The day isn't over...but I doubt there are many more chances.
Oh hey, a nice new omgussy read on me.
To clarify, tapping: I don't think you are town in any way.
But if you are, I will have zero regrets
You already said that. Enough with the mudslinging. If you have nothing new to say then just don't say anything.
The thread doesn't need your negativity. I know it's good for you to keep the town at each other's throats but it's really weak of you to mudsling and try to stifle discussion.
You continue to vote for someone you say is town and you ask me to change my thinking?
I'm comfortable with your lynch due to your misrepresentation of other players, your lack of critical thinking, and your refusal to even consider that you're in the wrong. I may want you dead for selfish reasons, but my vote is perfectly justifiable and the fact you refuse to even acknowledge that in order to paint me as being unreasonable is just another nail in the coffin.
Where does this arrogance come from? Make me understand when you became this player that refuses to accept anyone else's arguments and votes to kill town players? That's the real you? Are you trying to blame all your free actions on me?
I've reviewed your arguments and found them wanting, over and over again, in this game. I responded to your "case" against both me and KJ. Your "read" on H_T is a joke. I've already laid all of this out. But instead of acknowledging the short comings of your cases, you've decided to flail.
"TS I'm voting you even though I'm 70% sure you are town because you upset me. Now go ahead and reevaluate yourself and maybe I'll change my mind." You son;t see how bad the things you are doing really are, do you? D_V, Mindreaver and I have all given our reasoning for why HT is scum. You continue to highlight D_V but I mean how much mudslinging and misrepresenting has HT been guilty of?
"For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping."
Please go through that paragraph and highlight where I said I was voting you because I was upset. I was finally convinced to vote you because I was tilted, sure, but there's plenty good reason here for a vote anyway. Ultimately, I was withholding my vote in spite of the evidence because I knew you were tilted and wanted to give you a chance to dump your reads on the thread and act town. Your choice to attack the person who wasn't even on your wagon led to my vote on you.
I hope you learn something from this.
The hypocrisy is astonishing. But Wheat and Tom already told you that.
1)Never lynch town reads. This is something no one should have to be told. It's childish, petty, and shows that you stoop to whatever lows you can to try and spite someone. Your only hurting yourself. I can't win alone and I certainly can't lose alone. Killing me just gives you one less "friend" to count on for the next day. SC didn't lose because he got killed, he's still has a potential win because he's town too. We have two players who have already died hoping we do the right thing and I'm here waiting for you to be a grown-up.
You're no town read of mine. Null at best, and the only thing bringing you up that high is my gut feeling that you're town!flailing not scum!flailing.
2)I said read the quote from nachomamma in my sig. That would tell you I put my emotions into the game and when I think someone is angle shooting and not playing in a gentlemanly manner I can fly off the handle. Rational and sensible people can see what i'm doing is for the good of town. You were a part of something that got me livid. And you have every right to be angry and frustrated. Even co-workers, best friends, husbands and wives yell and fight with each other and say awful things but they usually don't let an argument lead to someone's death(figuratively).
You're the one being angle-shooty and ungentlemanly here. You started it when you flew off the handle and now you're trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend you did nothing wrong. The "gentlemanly" thing to do would be to do as I've asked, it isn't an unreasonable request, and to make amends if you've done wrong. To simply blame me without even considering the possibility that I'm right is a gross breach of etiquette.
3)The truth is that you still have a choice. You feel like you shouldn;t be the first one to give but in reality you have to. If you don't then you've lost the only game that really matters. You don;t know what's going on in the lives of others, perhaps people lashed out for other reasons, perhaps they really think you're trying to be malicious. Should your response be "How dare you feel offended and frustrated, die town!"
That's not at all what I said, but it's a brilliant example of a strawman. I gave you a break literally all Day because I wasn't sure if this was just something going on outside the game. I even said that! Check my iso, since I'm sure you won't take my word for it, it was sometime towards the beginning of toDay. But when you chose to attack me in the manner you did, just because I found your play wanting, you squandered the last bit of my goodwill. You also have a choice. You could do as I've asked, and reread those posts, and tell me where you answered my questions before blowing up on me. Page 28, I'm not linking them again.
4)Tom is likely scum as well. A town!crystal who believed so much in HT and was 70% sure on TS would probably be on Tom right now and maybe salvage a sweet catch out of a slog of a day.
This isn't about Tom. It's about your arrogance and blind refusal to consider the amount of effort I've put into this game and the time I spent trying to drag you kicking and screaming into using solid logic and above-the-board tactics. Your continuous refusal to consider my points makes this the correct lynch from a scum hunting point of view. You've done nothing but sling mud at people who are suspicious of you as if we should just blindly accept that you're town. That's... not town. And when put a L-2 and asked to dump your reads into the thread, you chose to give D_V a rainbow list with no explanations and continue to sling mud. In fact, to this very post you have not said why you think I'm aligned with H_T. Is it because I demanded a case on him that wasn't full of falsehoods, meta clashing, and OMGUS? Demanding a higher standard of evidence for a lynch than that isn't unreasonable and isn't indicative of an aligned pair.
Now, as for Tom, he's probably just town. I read his vote in a certain way, but I don't think he wants the thread at large to know about it (and I might be wrong, anyway, I'm totally assuming). I understand that it looks scummy but I think I know what he was doing.
Know who the scum is on these wagons? Shockwave. Seriously. Go look at his votes. Read my case and Mindreaver's points on him. If you want to lynch scum, lynch him. Like, you know, I was trying to do before people decided it was between you and H_T.
The day isn't over...but I doubt there are many more chances.
You're the one squandering them, not me. You had a fairly long wagon before I joined it, made up mostly of my town reads. As of right now the only person I'm townreading that isn't on your wagon is Mindreaver. That's not say your entire wagon is town - I'm sure there's scum there, too, by now, or will be by the time you get lynched. But I think Mindreaver is the only town read I have that isn't on your wagon (don't take this 100%, I'm not looking at the wagon right now).
And as far as percentages go... 65-70% town is actually a null read. The chances of any individual player rolling scum at random is between 25 and 33%. Which is 67-75% town. So... yeah. You're trying to paint me as strongly town reading you, and I'm just not.
And as far as percentages go... 65-70% town is actually a null read. The chances of any individual player rolling scum at random is between 25 and 33%. Which is 67-75% town. So... yeah. You're trying to paint me as strongly town reading you, and I'm just not.
Balancing Mafia games is an art unto itself. However, in general a Mafia should make up about 20% to 25% of your initial population of players. The number of total scum in the game CAN go up to 33% of the total players if the Town is particularly strong, but this 33% usually does not come from one faction.
Since this is a specialty, I can reasonably assume that there are a higher proportion of scum than normal to balance the crazy town roles. So, from the high end of the mafia percent (25%) to the extreme high end of scum numbers (33%) seems reasonable.
Which means, obviously, that any player chosen at random had a 25-33% chance of being scum at game start.
The converse is also true: any player chosen at random therefore has a 67-75% chance of being town.
Thus my read is essentially null because he isn't any more or less likely to be scum than a player chosen completely at random.
To be perfectly accurate, I could determine how many players were likely scum at play start, subtract one for Fable, then subtract 3 from town (because I'm known town to myself and we have two flips) to determine the chance of a random player being scum at present, but yeah.
Minus Fable, 4-5 anti-town left out of 18 players.
Minus me (or you instead), 4-5 anti-town left out of 17 players.
Minus Chris and col_mongoose, 4-5 anti-town left out of 15 players.
4 / 15 = .2666... or 26.666...%
5 / 15 = .3333... or 33.333...%
So the chances are about the same now as they were for a totally random player at game start that a player other than me (or you) is scum.
Sorry, I actually like math. Feel free to ignore me.
4-5 scum at start. 14-15 notscum.
currently 3-4 and 11-12
you all have a 20-27% of being scum.
i would currently put tapping somewhere around 80%, shock/halftime/necarg in the 40-60% range, and cyth/wheat/kosa/mind/kod/dv/brinatoo at 1-5% each.
but those are completely made up numbers.
This is unreal, and I haven't caught up fully. Here is where I'm at, read wise.
Silver and KoD are the most likely town. I don't agree with their positions, but I can follow the thought process.
With that in mind, I am up in the air on H_T. If I thought KoD was a lot scummier, his defense would look a lot worse. I think this lynch still gives us the most information at this point, but I would also concede that it isn't guaranteed caught scum, like I had said in the beginning of the day. TS and KoD present different PoV about how much Half has helped read the game. I tend to lean toward TS there, but I understand what KoD is trying to say.
D_V's posts read with conviction, and I don't see his position on the H_T wagon as scum. It was too "spashy", grabbed too much attention, and doesn't read as scum pushing a known mislynch (especially when contrasted with Tom's vote). I'm also going to conclude that he isn't scum aligned with TS. Because I believe at this point, scum would bus a buddy causing this much drama. D_V hasn't moved to the TS wagon. Even the attacks on Silver/KoD aren't without merit. I think the main disagreements with them are tonal and personality clash. I'd say 90% of them are "misreps" disagreements that I could see coming from town.
TS, I could see a scum mindset for. Your votes sheeping me on Kosa and then H_T don't look good. But they aren't necessarily outside the realm of "townreading mind, and I agree, so vote". That does make sense. It's very similar to why I looked at shockwave at all (my townread silver was presenting a case, so I should look as well). I think this whole Silver/TS thing is just a quagmire, and I don't know what to make of it. From what I can see, the beginning was assumed slights and maybe even misunderstandings. But now, it's completely out of control and hurting the game. Silver isn't the lynch today, and I'm not taking him into account as far as TS is concerned either. Objectivity is gone. I don't think this lynch helps, from an information perspective. It would not tell me the alignment of H_T, nor solidify my read of KoD/Silver. It might help me clear D_V. But that's about it. I also agree with Silver's gut read here, I'm still like 60% town on TS. His tone is troubling, but it reads with frustration. I can't tell if it's the frustration of somebody rolling scum for the first time and being caught so quickly, frustration with himself for being caught in a convoluted scheme to eat a nightkill, or frustration for not being townread as town. If this is where all the town end up, I'll accept it, but I"m not ready to end the day with a TS lynch. We have time, lets make sure we don't just lynch a participating person because we don't like his content, while lurking scum sit on their asses.
Tom, when I look back on voting history, probably looks the worst to me right now. Silver -> H_T -> TS. No Fable vote. I also am looking back at the Silver interaction early. If we are suspect of daychat for scum, how does that push on Silver look? It looks like Tom knew he could accuse Silver of dodging the cult question, and have it backed up. The fact that the only person who claimed regarding the cult, flipped scum soon after (and I thought at the time, in a direct attempt at getting Silver killed), seems very well put together. Especially if now, we're saying there might not be a cult and Kosa is claimed town/borg. I don't like the way he joined the H_T wagon, and I don't like how he left it for TS. I think this lynch would give me info about H_T/TS/Silver, as well as figuring out some of the Wheat/Tom stuff. That interaction looked fine when I was townreading Tom, but on a re-read, I just don't know why Wheat was making those posts (the "we're spookily in-sync" stuff). Finally, I don't like him pushing for a lynch when we don't have deadlines, Necarg has no posts today, Rhand just got replaced, and I KillJoy/DoTA are AWOL.
We should slow this down, and not be in a hurry. I also don't want to lynch on personality. IMO, and I'm sure I'll take a hit for this, but I think the more active posters should take a break. To give those four people who are catching up, a chance to do so, and weigh in. I think the more we post, the more we have to respond, and the less we're actually getting out of it. Anyone disagree?
P.S. Kosa has been UTR since it was clear we probably wouldn't kill him today. I'd like to see more scumhunting/weighing in from him. I think that's suspect, even if I am still swayed by his borgclaim timing. Not saying you're scum Kosa, but come back and tell me what you think of TS and Tom, at the very least.
but 6 is too many IMO.
5 and a borg is really pushing it.
You're probably right, but it might be 5+SK or something. There were two kills last night.
I also have zero experience building setups, so I don't really know if 4+1 is more likely than 5+1 in a 19 man Specialty or not. Just going from the wiki numbers.
Uhh also is a lynch already occurring? Or one is just close to threshold? I have literally no context but the last few posts (which have a lot of words) and my replacement confirmation (which mentions a potential lynch scene?)?
heres your catchup.
Day 1, fable claimed scum. imo the two bad votes on his wagon were necarg and ts, but you can look at that for yourself.
i was off in the corner hunting borg, cyth is the towniest cat to ever meow, and mindreaver got good at this game since d1 of otg.
Day 2 has mostly been toxicity, with heavy focus on arguing about halftime.
tapping blew up but not like usual. and i think hes currently at L-2 or so.
2 kills night 1. one was the vig who somehow lost his phaser?
modscenes are hilarious, but ultimately probably meaningless.
something about latinum maybe?
I saw your recent posts DV. Yes, you're bad at rereading if you were asking for a serious response. I believe Silver already corrected you as far as your mistakes in reviewing Half's posts wrt to how he views TS. Needless to say Numbers doesn't town read TS at all. At best he leans null on him at some points. At one point (the Kosa situation) he mentions being able to see a town *and* scum mindset for how TS reacts at a certain spot. Ultimately he views TS as scummy over that situation. Not town orientated in the mind.
I know TS and Silver have a thing going on (sorry Silver, I feel for you), but I'm at a tired point to go through it atm.
omg, yes you did make mistakes. You're literally misquoting Half and asserting something that isn't the case wrt to how he views TS.
Spoiler code better work the way I think it does.
[spoiler]
1.
There is no assertion here either way that TS is town or scum.
2.
Null lean.
3.
Still Null lean (a continuation from 2).
4 and 5.
Meaning he reads TS less scummy compared to you DV. That doesn't mean he reads TS as town because, as Half directly stated, he viewed TS as scummy for his burial post on Kosa. If you remove the first part of Half's analysis (like he says in the quote), then you get a situation in which TS would measure up to the same level of scummyness you do wrt to trying to lynch Kosa with ill intent.
7. Give me a break DV. Half never stated TS is town or maintained that TS had a town mindset. The best he did, as I noted many many posts ago wrt to TS misreping Half -- or maybe it was you trying to do it again now, is null read TS. He has directly stated that he leaned scum on TS's actions in the Kosa situation. Also, ty for quoting that particular post from Half.
DV
He never asserted it was ***just*** a town mindset. He stated he could see it happening as either alignment. He doesn't state TS has a town mindset as his opinion. His opinion ranges from null at start to scum lean with the Kosa stuff. Also, if we're going to play word games, then you're right. Half never did say TS was strictly anti-town. Nor did Half ever say TS is town or have a town mindset (whether as opinion or fact). What Half has said is that he leans scum on TS.
It's frustrating me that he says I'm 70% town and that I'm his top lynch choice. That's piss poor town play. You DON'T lynch your town reads on day two.
How about you let Half defend himself? This is a bit ridiculous the level of defense you have to do for him. You might be right you might be wrong but for godssake let the man fight a couple battles for himself KoD.
Seriously.
The only reason I unvoted you was so you could post content concerning Tom. I didn't unvote you just so you could hand feed me bull@#^& "I'll be doing that" while you continually sling mud and insults.
Actually screw it. You've already shown a tendency to not deliver on arguments (reference: Half's point about you dropping an argument once Fable came up and never picking up on the argument again -- the post I thanked DV for quoting as it pertains to what Half was talking about wrt to you). You tell me you have notes. It's been close to like 20 hours or so since I unvoted and you could post that stuff. Instead you give me excuses.
Vote: TS
If that doesn't hammer you, then I hope someone does hammer you so you flip and the game can continue.
I've got some advice for you though: Go and fact check instead of lying about players.
You've had 20 hours :rollout:?? Well yes, and most of that was sleep and then me going directly to work which I warned about. i am at work now. So you actually haven't given me any time to answer it. I've been able to post answers back in forth to all the flash by comments but not get into my notes which are in my apartment.
You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap. Instead you are indulging in flinging mud and making excuses while also saying you'll get to it. Perhaps next time you'll utilize your time better and post something serious instead of posting bs.
Why would I take advice from someone who is defending scum? Is HT not a big boy? He can't defend himself?
And you didn't give anytime to post my Tom notes don't try to lie. I mentioned what time I got home, went to bed and then to work, where I still am.
I love how you call TS arrogant, and pull this.
Both you and Silver are guilty of the same thing. The hypocrisy is strong.
But that's my point.
It doesn't flow right?
You are just reading the end result, but the points given ahead of it don't really add up.
The post really doesn't say much of anything if you take the time to read it over and over again. The more I read it the more I see how flimsy wobbly it is. It's kinda saying one thing, but it kinda saying another its like HT is waiting to see how the town moves and then go with that flow. It's part of this overall play style of wait and have stuff brought to him its very much not a towny way of playing the game.
And how is this alright with you guys?
To be honest, it's just disappointing. If they are both town it's just a head scratcher. I can admit I'm arrogant. As are many of the top players on this site. It's not a negative to be arrogant, BUT it's arrogant to try to eliminate a team mate BECAUSE of your arrogance. And that is what Crystal has messed up to with his "You are likely town, but I want you dead garbage". and we have KoD here trying to tell me where my notes are? Really? They are in my mafia notebook on my coffee table.
What's up with the misrep KoD?
Prove your statement "You've got the notes, but you're not posting crap."
You said you like to use facts and tell the truth. This is a LIE. A bold faced LIE. Show me your proof.
That's what I thought....hypocrite.
Defending scum and pushing town based on arrogance.
Also, I'm a lot more tame compared to TS in the arrogance department. Fact is, TS has a bad record with doing something (not to mention a bad record at misrepresenting players). I feel completely fine writing him off at this point.
@TS: Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. What was all that bluster you gave the thread about doing stuff and what have you? Take your own words for advice then if not mine.
Show your work KoD.
You say you don't lie. Well you just lied. Does that make you scum according to your LAL mentatily?
You just mudslinged to try and bury me. It's there for all to read.
If I'm guilty of hypocrisy, then prove it. Go back into the thread and pull up examples of me misreping and throw it in my face. Otherwise what are you doing? Throwing mud with no substance behind it?
As for Half, do you not understand what a null read is? You're saying Half is reading TS as town at one point, then doing a 180 the next. That's not the case. You're, quite literally, doing a bad job at reading. End of story.
@TS again:
Where are your notes about Tom then? Why haven't you posted then? Gee, probably because you're too busy making excuses and throwing mud to do anything useful. Call that a misrep if you want. I'm calling it exactly how it is. A scum player who is trying to stir up whatever he can to avoid dying.
How about you spare me your bs. Rather than actually do any of your note posting about Tom after I had unvoted you over that, all you did was go and engage in #@$^. And all you have to show for it is the crap you keep spewing. So if you got your notes post them. Otherwise cry less that you'll get lynched before you can "contribute" your so called "useful" opinion.
No dude it doesn't.
How can a purely coincidental post also be wagoning?
Kosa point in that matter was that "Had not brought him up yet, and was being opportunistic"
Yet, HT very clearly states that is not the case.
He then goes on to say the only thing that he(HT) found valid was the burial post, but he didn't really say a lot about it and most of it was fluff. Basically how that reads is if someone made a strong case that the post in question didn't matter, then he would drop it.
But then we go to leaning scum, but in a way that is wishy washy that could be dropped at any time, because of course the house of cards is only being held up by one card. It is just going with the flow.
I think you are being too literal with your analysis. Instead of looking at the theme of how it is presented. It's all wishy washy sorta mumbo jumbo, he's kinda saying pro-town, he is kinda saying not town. Its the intent, and frankly the intent is pretty meh.
So, you are lynching TS because you disagree with his play style to be clear?
How is that pro-town? Or even trying to win?
No, that is not what I am saying. I never said that. I said he is allowing himself outs best way for me to phrase it.
And I never said you misrepresented people this is about the arrogance part that you and Silver seem to be so hung up on.
You said you know where my notes are. Please prove it. You said you like telling the truth and not mudslinging but you have been caught red-handed.
But enough of this.
I'm getting off work, gonna have a nice walk and then get D_V is T/S list. If KoD is going to continue to demand Tom notes then he should be removing his vote that he placed their out of frustration.
I have somethings I want to say so hopefully I'm not hammered before I get to finish.
Cool thanks man.
I wouldn't worry about him too much. Anyone who wants to talk about "Proper plays" and then votes someone for reasons of "I don't like you".
Well what ever, but that isn't good play of any strict sense and if he actually understood how logic worked he would never use that vote. But as always the people that use that word the most are mostly the ones that really just don't have a clue.
Also, how can it not be? Half talks about TS's vote for Kosa as well as Rhand's vote for Kosa, and he mentions his opinion that TS probably missed Rhand voting for Kosa as well which led to a *coincidental* pileup of their votes going onto Kosa. The wagoning isn't even the issue for Half though. Nothing about that entire statement from Half indicates that TS has a town mindset over a scum mindset and viceversa. What Half focuses on is why TS goes after Kosa which is referred to as the burial post. That's scummy.
"This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. "
I'm done with you DV. Learn to read. Half stated Kosa had a very valid point. Whatever the crap is you're spewing, I can't even.
Oh you're asking me why I'm lynching TS? Was that not clear already?
btw, they're back at your home on your coffee table. So yeah, I do know where your notes are.
this is too contentious for me guys.
lets get this TS lynch done and all take the night to remember its just a game.
i hope that KoD vote was the hammer and that we can all just be chill tomorrow.
D_V has requested a T/S list, please respect the other players Tom.
if people want to wait, thats fine. my vote is already in the right place.
but i am 100% sure that we arent making any progress in this game until youre dead. youve made quite sure of that.
we are well past the point that even if you somehow flip town i will still feel fantastic about the lynch.
Fable(dead)
Halftime
Tomsloger
Rhand
Silvercrys3467*(lynch HT 1st read is partially based on scum HT)
Killjoy
Kosakosa
Necarg
Brinatoo
Wheatgrinder
DOTA
Cythare
Shockwave
KoD
D_V
Mindreaver
TappingStones
Col_Mongoose (dead)
SirChris(dead)
As requested by D_V. Hope it's helpful. The top one is assuredly scum, Tomsloger looks good too. On my reread I still don't like Rhand's slot but it's gone silent. So I'll just keep my read where it is. As I've been saying, Crystal is linked to a scum HT (case is in thread), it's not a hard one to follow.
Not sure if I will get a chance later but should I not survive today I wanted to say I've been super impressed with the way Mindreaver and D_V have slogged through mudslinging and faulty logic that has been thrown at them. They stuck to their guns. It was especially bold considering they didn't care that they were fighting a fight that I was involved in. If either of you are scum, bravo. I don't think that's the case, though.
@D_V-Don't let Crystal, KoD, or HT push your buttons. Crystal churned up some pretty strong emotion from me and it's regrettable as I was looking forward to playing with him. But it is what it is.
HT was doomed from the beginning because his style in this game was to let things come to him and he has had no sense of urgency in terms of using each day to learn new things and push reads.
Tomsolger was shaky when he was pushing Crystal as the borg. Look back at his degree of certainty, pretty gross.
Tom, KoD, and Crystal are all getting called out here for admitting that they are ok lynching town. Completely indefensible position. Those pushes to miss lynch town make Fable's scum claim look like a mastermind's plan in comparison.
You don't EVER, EVER lynch people you have a strong town read on.
That's all on the T/S list for now. If for some reason some people want to swallow their pride, salvage some dignity in this game and help us catch the scum that would be great. HT and Tom are the best lynches for today and I'm really excited to reread after one of them flips.
Like, my 65-70% town thing is pure gut. Your actions over the past ~48 hours have been completely outrageous and I have every right to be offended at your display of poor sportsmanship. But whatever. I'm over it now, since obviously you're just going to keep ignoring it. I just can't stand how smug you are, saying other people need to swallow their pride. Why don't you start TS? Swallow your pride. Go back and look at what actually happened instead of assuming you're right. Then I'll swallow mine and we'll see what happens.
For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping.
While the fact is that I was finally convinced to place my vote on you for selfish reasons, there's more than enough evidence to make me comfortable lynching you. I just feel, in my gut, that you'll flip town for reasons I can't quite explain.
You continue to vote for someone you say is town and you ask me to change my thinking?
Where does this arrogance come from? Make me understand when you became this player that refuses to accept anyone else's arguments and votes to kill town players? That's the real you? Are you trying to blame all your free actions on me?
"TS I'm voting you even though I'm 70% sure you are town because you upset me. Now go ahead and reevaluate yourself and maybe I'll change my mind." You son;t see how bad the things you are doing really are, do you? D_V, Mindreaver and I have all given our reasoning for why HT is scum. You continue to highlight D_V but I mean how much mudslinging and misrepresenting has HT been guilty of?
I hope you learn something from this.
1)Never lynch town reads. This is something no one should have to be told. It's childish, petty, and shows that you stoop to whatever lows you can to try and spite someone. Your only hurting yourself. I can't win alone and I certainly can't lose alone. Killing me just gives you one less "friend" to count on for the next day. SC didn't lose because he got killed, he's still has a potential win because he's town too. We have two players who have already died hoping we do the right thing and I'm here waiting for you to be a grown-up.
2)I said read the quote from nachomamma in my sig. That would tell you I put my emotions into the game and when I think someone is angle shooting and not playing in a gentlemanly manner I can fly off the handle. Rational and sensible people can see what i'm doing is for the good of town. You were a part of something that got me livid. And you have every right to be angry and frustrated. Even co-workers, best friends, husbands and wives yell and fight with each other and say awful things but they usually don't let an argument lead to someone's death(figuratively).
3)The truth is that you still have a choice. You feel like you shouldn;t be the first one to give but in reality you have to. If you don't then you've lost the only game that really matters. You don;t know what's going on in the lives of others, perhaps people lashed out for other reasons, perhaps they really think you're trying to be malicious. Should your response be "How dare you feel offended and frustrated, die town!"
4)Tom is likely scum as well. A town!crystal who believed so much in HT and was 70% sure on TS would probably be on Tom right now and maybe salvage a sweet catch out of a slog of a day.
The day isn't over...but I doubt there are many more chances.
To clarify, tapping: I don't think you are town in any way.
But if you are, I will have zero regrets
You already said that. Enough with the mudslinging. If you have nothing new to say then just don't say anything.
The thread doesn't need your negativity. I know it's good for you to keep the town at each other's throats but it's really weak of you to mudsling and try to stifle discussion.
Really?
You won't regret lynching TS if he is town.
Wow, what a nice thing to say. And very much in the spirit of the game.
I expect better from you.
Votecount and potential lynch scene to come once work gives me a break.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
like i said, i dont think that will happen.
but no. i wouldnt regret it.
I've reviewed your arguments and found them wanting, over and over again, in this game. I responded to your "case" against both me and KJ. Your "read" on H_T is a joke. I've already laid all of this out. But instead of acknowledging the short comings of your cases, you've decided to flail.
"For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping."
Please go through that paragraph and highlight where I said I was voting you because I was upset. I was finally convinced to vote you because I was tilted, sure, but there's plenty good reason here for a vote anyway. Ultimately, I was withholding my vote in spite of the evidence because I knew you were tilted and wanted to give you a chance to dump your reads on the thread and act town. Your choice to attack the person who wasn't even on your wagon led to my vote on you.
The hypocrisy is astonishing. But Wheat and Tom already told you that.
You're no town read of mine. Null at best, and the only thing bringing you up that high is my gut feeling that you're town!flailing not scum!flailing.
You're the one being angle-shooty and ungentlemanly here. You started it when you flew off the handle and now you're trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend you did nothing wrong. The "gentlemanly" thing to do would be to do as I've asked, it isn't an unreasonable request, and to make amends if you've done wrong. To simply blame me without even considering the possibility that I'm right is a gross breach of etiquette.
That's not at all what I said, but it's a brilliant example of a strawman. I gave you a break literally all Day because I wasn't sure if this was just something going on outside the game. I even said that! Check my iso, since I'm sure you won't take my word for it, it was sometime towards the beginning of toDay. But when you chose to attack me in the manner you did, just because I found your play wanting, you squandered the last bit of my goodwill. You also have a choice. You could do as I've asked, and reread those posts, and tell me where you answered my questions before blowing up on me. Page 28, I'm not linking them again.
This isn't about Tom. It's about your arrogance and blind refusal to consider the amount of effort I've put into this game and the time I spent trying to drag you kicking and screaming into using solid logic and above-the-board tactics. Your continuous refusal to consider my points makes this the correct lynch from a scum hunting point of view. You've done nothing but sling mud at people who are suspicious of you as if we should just blindly accept that you're town. That's... not town. And when put a L-2 and asked to dump your reads into the thread, you chose to give D_V a rainbow list with no explanations and continue to sling mud. In fact, to this very post you have not said why you think I'm aligned with H_T. Is it because I demanded a case on him that wasn't full of falsehoods, meta clashing, and OMGUS? Demanding a higher standard of evidence for a lynch than that isn't unreasonable and isn't indicative of an aligned pair.
Now, as for Tom, he's probably just town. I read his vote in a certain way, but I don't think he wants the thread at large to know about it (and I might be wrong, anyway, I'm totally assuming). I understand that it looks scummy but I think I know what he was doing.
Know who the scum is on these wagons? Shockwave. Seriously. Go look at his votes. Read my case and Mindreaver's points on him. If you want to lynch scum, lynch him. Like, you know, I was trying to do before people decided it was between you and H_T.
You're the one squandering them, not me. You had a fairly long wagon before I joined it, made up mostly of my town reads. As of right now the only person I'm townreading that isn't on your wagon is Mindreaver. That's not say your entire wagon is town - I'm sure there's scum there, too, by now, or will be by the time you get lynched. But I think Mindreaver is the only town read I have that isn't on your wagon (don't take this 100%, I'm not looking at the wagon right now).
And as far as percentages go... 65-70% town is actually a null read. The chances of any individual player rolling scum at random is between 25 and 33%. Which is 67-75% town. So... yeah. You're trying to paint me as strongly town reading you, and I'm just not.
Who taught you stats?
What percent of players are typically scum at the beginning of the game?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mafia Since this is a specialty, I can reasonably assume that there are a higher proportion of scum than normal to balance the crazy town roles. So, from the high end of the mafia percent (25%) to the extreme high end of scum numbers (33%) seems reasonable.
Which means, obviously, that any player chosen at random had a 25-33% chance of being scum at game start.
The converse is also true: any player chosen at random therefore has a 67-75% chance of being town.
Thus my read is essentially null because he isn't any more or less likely to be scum than a player chosen completely at random.
The irony
I don't have much more to say today. I think it's time to go to toMorrow before TS gets himself blackballed due to raging.
19 * .25 = 4.75
19 * .33 = 6.333...
So, 5-6 anti town players is likely.
Minus Fable, 4-5 anti-town left out of 18 players.
Minus me (or you instead), 4-5 anti-town left out of 17 players.
Minus Chris and col_mongoose, 4-5 anti-town left out of 15 players.
4 / 15 = .2666... or 26.666...%
5 / 15 = .3333... or 33.333...%
So the chances are about the same now as they were for a totally random player at game start that a player other than me (or you) is scum.
Sorry, I actually like math. Feel free to ignore me.
currently 3-4 and 11-12
you all have a 20-27% of being scum.
i would currently put tapping somewhere around 80%, shock/halftime/necarg in the 40-60% range, and cyth/wheat/kosa/mind/kod/dv/brinatoo at 1-5% each.
but those are completely made up numbers.
but 6 is too many IMO.
5 and a borg is really pushing it.
Silver and KoD are the most likely town. I don't agree with their positions, but I can follow the thought process.
With that in mind, I am up in the air on H_T. If I thought KoD was a lot scummier, his defense would look a lot worse. I think this lynch still gives us the most information at this point, but I would also concede that it isn't guaranteed caught scum, like I had said in the beginning of the day. TS and KoD present different PoV about how much Half has helped read the game. I tend to lean toward TS there, but I understand what KoD is trying to say.
D_V's posts read with conviction, and I don't see his position on the H_T wagon as scum. It was too "spashy", grabbed too much attention, and doesn't read as scum pushing a known mislynch (especially when contrasted with Tom's vote). I'm also going to conclude that he isn't scum aligned with TS. Because I believe at this point, scum would bus a buddy causing this much drama. D_V hasn't moved to the TS wagon. Even the attacks on Silver/KoD aren't without merit. I think the main disagreements with them are tonal and personality clash. I'd say 90% of them are "misreps" disagreements that I could see coming from town.
TS, I could see a scum mindset for. Your votes sheeping me on Kosa and then H_T don't look good. But they aren't necessarily outside the realm of "townreading mind, and I agree, so vote". That does make sense. It's very similar to why I looked at shockwave at all (my townread silver was presenting a case, so I should look as well). I think this whole Silver/TS thing is just a quagmire, and I don't know what to make of it. From what I can see, the beginning was assumed slights and maybe even misunderstandings. But now, it's completely out of control and hurting the game. Silver isn't the lynch today, and I'm not taking him into account as far as TS is concerned either. Objectivity is gone. I don't think this lynch helps, from an information perspective. It would not tell me the alignment of H_T, nor solidify my read of KoD/Silver. It might help me clear D_V. But that's about it. I also agree with Silver's gut read here, I'm still like 60% town on TS. His tone is troubling, but it reads with frustration. I can't tell if it's the frustration of somebody rolling scum for the first time and being caught so quickly, frustration with himself for being caught in a convoluted scheme to eat a nightkill, or frustration for not being townread as town. If this is where all the town end up, I'll accept it, but I"m not ready to end the day with a TS lynch. We have time, lets make sure we don't just lynch a participating person because we don't like his content, while lurking scum sit on their asses.
Tom, when I look back on voting history, probably looks the worst to me right now. Silver -> H_T -> TS. No Fable vote. I also am looking back at the Silver interaction early. If we are suspect of daychat for scum, how does that push on Silver look? It looks like Tom knew he could accuse Silver of dodging the cult question, and have it backed up. The fact that the only person who claimed regarding the cult, flipped scum soon after (and I thought at the time, in a direct attempt at getting Silver killed), seems very well put together. Especially if now, we're saying there might not be a cult and Kosa is claimed town/borg. I don't like the way he joined the H_T wagon, and I don't like how he left it for TS. I think this lynch would give me info about H_T/TS/Silver, as well as figuring out some of the Wheat/Tom stuff. That interaction looked fine when I was townreading Tom, but on a re-read, I just don't know why Wheat was making those posts (the "we're spookily in-sync" stuff). Finally, I don't like him pushing for a lynch when we don't have deadlines, Necarg has no posts today, Rhand just got replaced, and I KillJoy/DoTA are AWOL.
We should slow this down, and not be in a hurry. I also don't want to lynch on personality. IMO, and I'm sure I'll take a hit for this, but I think the more active posters should take a break. To give those four people who are catching up, a chance to do so, and weigh in. I think the more we post, the more we have to respond, and the less we're actually getting out of it. Anyone disagree?
P.S. Kosa has been UTR since it was clear we probably wouldn't kill him today. I'd like to see more scumhunting/weighing in from him. I think that's suspect, even if I am still swayed by his borgclaim timing. Not saying you're scum Kosa, but come back and tell me what you think of TS and Tom, at the very least.
I also have zero experience building setups, so I don't really know if 4+1 is more likely than 5+1 in a 19 man Specialty or not. Just going from the wiki numbers.
heres your catchup.
Day 1, fable claimed scum. imo the two bad votes on his wagon were necarg and ts, but you can look at that for yourself.
i was off in the corner hunting borg, cyth is the towniest cat to ever meow, and mindreaver got good at this game since d1 of otg.
Day 2 has mostly been toxicity, with heavy focus on arguing about halftime.
tapping blew up but not like usual. and i think hes currently at L-2 or so.
2 kills night 1. one was the vig who somehow lost his phaser?
modscenes are hilarious, but ultimately probably meaningless.
something about latinum maybe?
I'm some race I've never heard of, and flavor gaming is silly when there's myriad universes.