Actually everyone how are you reading Wheat right now?
I've started over from scratch and Wheat seems really off to me.
Also, I can see reasons for a TS lynch, but I disagree on principle since half of the reason seems to be frustration at TS. This is a silly reason to lynch someone.
Hooded robe meaning cult and black ball meaning no- assimilated doesn't tie to Borg? I'm lost a little but I think this is what you were getting at. I still don't get the brick/toy house or w/e.
* Cythare bats at Brinatoo, then grabs the field manual and the robe and places a black ball between them. *
Okay robe isn't associated with the field manual concerning borg. But I'm still confused as to what you are getting at with the robe. You'd have to pull out a book concerning what you are talking about.
About the TS wagon, it never reached L-1... Like it was literally one page ago and he fails to know what his votecount is at? Come on.... I don't like the ultimatum he's advocating where he for sure wants HT lynched and him copped and a whole bunch of other bull*****. It reminded me of when I advocated an ultimatum in Basic #52 where I wanted another shot if I was lynched, and I voted myself into the mislynch. Turns out we were both town and mafioso got ever closer to win even though we started the game with a considerable lead (2 dead at the start of D2). So even if TS is just playing like garbage and literally doing nothing for his case except advocating a lynch off himself and onto HT, there's a chance he's wrong and just cost us valuable bodies. But that's a path I hate to even think of because a reality where TS isn't scum and is playing like this is just sad. He's consistently doing many scummy things that I wouldn't dream a towny doing.
@Silver: I read your Shock content, and I think Shock would be a potential avenue to look at if TS flips scum. But for now it's obvilynchTS.
@DoT: Still awaiting your responses to my questions. And more on TS/HT. @Rhand/Necarg/Killjoy: Nearly a week since Day started, if TS is a mislynch you should probably get to hopping on it- right? Please talk about the two wagons.
The last replacement slot is Citricbase so it'll probably be him stepping in for Rhand. Looking forward to it.
wheat is solidly town.
its easy for me to see because we mostly agree, but throw that out and you can just see the steady progression thats completely absent from TS.
it could just be that he keeps catching up in chunks, but IMO that is wheat reading, thinking, and reevaluating.
theres just no agenda there. just reaction to stimuli.
I'm leaning town on Wheat. I hate to /barn Tom, but I've shared quite a few of his thoughts and I don't really see an agenda in his posts.
Really the reason I'm leaning town and not solid on him is that his posts are mostly just reactions to current events and prodding other people for reactions, which should be fakeable for good scum players. I don't know Wheat's meta, so it's possible Tom's right and he's just town.
@Brinatoo:
What makes Shock more likely to flip scum if TS does? I didn't notice anything indicating they were aligned, myself.
His unvote of TappingStones didn't seem logical and felt out of place. I'll go back and look at it if you want me to and talk about how I read that the first time through, but I'm more inclined to do that after a flip.
Btw I'm looking at TS/Fable interactions atm and boy what a goldmine, I'm surprised noone caught what I'm seeing. #146 is the most damning where he unvotes Fable for "being right on the KoD rules" like wtf? That was unrelated to the case/pressure he built on Fable, very suspect.
#236 is another potential language tell where he uses lingo like "blurting that out." Which can speak of emotion of like "wtf why would you bring that up, buddy?"
Still going through and will probably continue tomorrow but at #401. Such huge gaps after their early stuff.... It's like their gameplan was to distance themselves early on and then just forget about one another because they felt comfortable they had done so enough.
That's fine if you want to wait for a deeper analysis, was just curious because you linked them and I hadn't caught it.
As for his early interactions with Fable, I can't say I'm surprised there's stuff there. I just haven't cased him (and probably won't). My "scum read" is based on how unhelpful he's been and his interactions with the H_T wagon.
Let me put it this way while I am still reading things.
Wheat is an exceptionally good player. There is a reason I kept him under my revive for Ace Attorney. This game he feels very weak, and almost unsure of himself, like where he deferred to Tom on the H_T thing.
Every time I feel like I understand where Wheat is this game he seems to take large turns from where I felt he was building up to.
I want to agree with everyone and say he is town, but something is sitting in my gut and I can't place my finger on it yet.
That's pretty much what I thought. You said earlier you thought I was Borg but never scum. I think Fable called you out on it, actually, something about scum tells and cult tells being the same? Then Kosa claimed. That was good enough for me.
I want to jump on this one since I got the exact same feeling as Tom did - that you were neutral but not scum. I thought you were neutral because whenever the borg came up you were all like
---
DV: You're on the right track. Keep mulling it over.
Outside of Mindreaver I don't see anyone critically evaluating the game. Just a lot of "I want to mislynch TS". If mislynching me will get you guys off your asses and start playing Mafia then go ahead and do it.
I have never seen a group of players sit around and do nothing like this day two. My reads have been logical and well-presented throughout.
People jumped on me from the lie about the claim, that's all. After that it was just a snowball of opportunistic votes. As I said before this is the last game for me on this site. I can't stand the lurking and lack of effort put in. Despite that I've never lost to the scum and it's nice to go out undefeated as a Mafia player.
A pity that so few people like using critical thinking but I can't force you to.
Hurry up and get your mislynch over with. Very disappointed in many of you.
Not that I care anymore but I'm going to be laughing my ass off at all the excuses you guys are making when HT is revealed as scum. I bet no one takes responsibility for not seeing obvious scum.
If that's seriously the way you think it went down, you need to go back and reread my analysis of the H_T deal and our little "disagreement." You didn't answer all of my questions and got insulted when I said you didn't, you've been overly dramatic about being suspected like you're being personally persecuted or something, and you've posted, like, one serious analysis (on Killjoy) despite claiming you have "pages and pages of notes." Oh, and you "responded" to my Shockwave case after I asked you about it by saying one of his posts is null to you.
If you're town, sorry, but you're not helping. You're literally in the way of finding scum at this point because you're just pissing and moaning about how Mindreaver is the only one doing anything and we're being sooo mean to you when you're literally doing everything in your power to not be helpful.
I even invited you to dump your reads on the thread, again, and you chose to post a piss-poor rehash of your obviously biased case on me instead in an effort to convince everyone that I need to be lynched for defending Half_Time. It's not my fault, nor is it a scum tell on me, that you couldn't string two sentences together without literally making ***** up to get him lynched. As I showed in my analysis.
I'm... just done with you. I wish I had a dayvig because you would've been dead this morning when you pulled that bull***** about how it would've been fine if Mindreaver had voted you. And here you are pulling it again. I gave you plenty of opportunity to show you were town, and I got burned bridges and bad feelings for it.
Outside of Mindreaver I don't see anyone critically evaluating the game. Just a lot of "I want to mislynch TS". If mislynching me will get you guys off your asses and start playing Mafia then go ahead and do it.
I don't see you doing much besides whine incessantly.
If that's seriously the way you think it went down, you need to go back and reread my analysis of the H_T deal and our little "disagreement." You didn't answer all of my questions and got insulted when I said you didn't, you've been overly dramatic about being suspected like you're being personally persecuted or something, and you've posted, like, one serious analysis (on Killjoy) despite claiming you have "pages and pages of notes." Oh, and you "responded" to my Shockwave case after I asked you about it by saying one of his posts is null to you.
If you're town, sorry, but you're not helping. You're literally in the way of finding scum at this point because you're just pissing and moaning about how Mindreaver is the only one doing anything and we're being sooo mean to you when you're literally doing everything in your power to not be helpful.
I even invited you to dump your reads on the thread, again, and you chose to post a piss-poor rehash of your obviously biased case on me instead in an effort to convince everyone that I need to be lynched for defending Half_Time. It's not my fault, nor is it a scum tell on me, that you couldn't string two sentences together without literally making ***** up to get him lynched. As I showed in my analysis.
I'm... just done with you. I wish I had a dayvig because you would've been dead this morning when you pulled that bull***** about how it would've been fine if Mindreaver had voted you. And here you are pulling it again. I gave you plenty of opportunity to show you were town, and I got burned bridges and bad feelings for it.
Get lynched.
You have done NOTHING of the sort.
I found the scum. I can't make you get off your ass and lynch scum. That's life. The case is solid. HT hasn't done jack***** this game. You can taste your mistake with your mislynch. You are the one KILLING TOWN, not I.
Instead of actually pushing people who aren't doing ***** like HT to become more involved and actually scumhunt, or the f-ing band of lurkers, or Kosa. You wanna mislynch me because you can't control your emotions.
You don't deserve to win if you are town and your play has been borderline as scum.
There are reasons I never lose to scum despite always being aligned with different teammates Crystal. I'm good at keeping up pressure and getting strong reactions. You've decieded to blow a gasket and do the scum's work for them, or just be playing the super obvious scum role.
Either way, you've made it impossible for the game to be completed without your eventual lynch. Will town see it?
Outside of Mindreaver I don't see anyone critically evaluating the game. Just a lot of "I want to mislynch TS". If mislynching me will get you guys off your asses and start playing Mafia then go ahead and do it.
I don't see you doing much besides whine incessantly.
I have good cause to complain. The town is allowing a bad mislynch to occur on someone who has caught scum. I've made strong cases throughout and people got lazy and decided to pack it in today.
What would you have me do Wheat? Am I really supposed to go back and do a ton more work just so lazy town can STILL mislynch me? If people were trying to solve the game I'd be full of energy and helping POE the scum team with interaction and trying to get you guys to force the lurkers to participate. But after how I've been treated by Crys, and people just jumping on my wagon with no reasons?
I think catching 2-3 scum before the end of day two is pretty good. If you guys don't want to let me live long enough to find the last 1-2 then there's nothing I can do about that.
@Wheat-How are you expecting to win? You've done very little yourself. Look at your own ISO. Are you going to win with that kind of activity level? What's your plan to win. After my mislynch do you have information to gain?
At this point in a Day, almost better to reset and go into the next Day than drag it out... But at the same time have a few reservations as last game (on NGA) I lynched town as town while hoping to reset.
And I can remember freaking out like this as town before...
At the same time have to note this game is within ballpark range post total of my first game here, Sesame Street mafia. 1.5 k post to its end, but only Day 2 here!
Wow.
Starting some notes on our lurkers just to get something going for when there replacements come in, or they come back.
Starting with the player with the lowest post count, and in no particular order following, here's my thoughts on Killjoy by order of post:
1) Opens with a request for more boxes for KoD to the mod for KoD's FoS opening. Maybe veiled in a joke, but some pressure is being applied here.
Agrees with Sir Chris, moderately, for clearing me, but doesn't agree with D_V clearing Sir Chris (flip town).
Also doesn't agree with Sir Chris calling people who think critically (and possibly to a lesser extend don't cast much suspicion) town. But asks for Sir Chris's theory. Not committing here, so possible sign of suspicion.
Replies to a longer post of Sir Chris's noting "scum don't like to make unnecessary enemies" and that he was already thinking that was what Sir Chris was thinking. It's subtle, but something tells me he thinks they are both town.
Reply to Necarg saying him thinking critically and picking fight doesn't necessarily make him town. (Clearing for the wrong reasons).
Agreeing with the madness of content on page 1 with D_V.
And ends with a request to see a game KoD has been in. If I remember right, this request was flatly denied by KoD.
2) Yeah. Request denied.
Notes my post restriction.
Now asking Fable for a link to one of KoD's games... If they shared a QT I don't think that would be asked in the open, but WIFOM at best.
Asking Yamato for his opinions... None were given before replace out.
Followed by a request for Fable's thoughts.
Now this is weird... A post of Mindreaver breaking down the thoughts of "Fable's rules of KoD" but because of this Killjoy asks "where was this in twinborn". I can't think of any context this makes sense.
Ends post with "Spot"ting Spot.
3) Reply to Mindreaver clarifying he thought D_V was serious, but did not agree with reasoning for clearing.
4) Catch up notice.
5) Another stating up for 24 hours...
6) Welcomes Rhand and Brinatoo, states Fable/KoD likely unaligned, Mind likely town, and asks what Mind wants to know.
7) Denies having a posting restriction, asking someone (post I'm looking at doesn't clarify) what kind of one someone though he had.
Also requests more info on KoD/Fable by way of games they were together in... Can add one more to the list on request.
8) Request for Silver's mafia experience.
9) Clarifies why he was asking the for Silver's experience stating 300+ posts in someone should look scummy to someone experienced, but Silver is noted as fine in his case.
10) Must have been after the post of KoD's that Silver afterwards called a town post. Says that is a lot more opinions than mafia normally have.
Then ends with a catch up notice.
11) Last post 3 Days ago saying falling way behind. But does have some content here.
KoD town, Fable scum, and notes KoD seemed town before Fable outed himself. In other words KoD wasn't trying to fake based on his earlier statements.
Thinks TS is silly for thinking his posting isn't alignment based...
And calls Cythare a possible townie for posting when he doesn't necessarily need to.
----------
Wrap-up: Main motivation seems clearing town and separating pairs, no apparent agenda besides this. Interest in posting restrictions, lack of voting, and no noted scum reads flag, even after his statement to Silver.
I'm not sure he's aligned with Fable, I think it's highly unlikely. Only way I could see it is if KoD and Killjoy are aligned. I don't think that's so.
Lean town.
----------
Will post these as I go and don't mind if someone suggests my next one.
God how tilted would the scum be in I didn't actually get lynched today?
In all fairness, I'd be willing to start day three with everyone on a clean slate and just work interaction analysis and catch them from point zero again. I'm well aware that some of us (including me) got bogged down by figuring out meta differences and trying to feel out the players. All of us calling each other bad over and over again. I'm curious to see if the mudslinging stops from HT.
But mostly I'd just know how salty the scum would be from not having this mislynch. That feeling alone is worth staying alive another day to hunt them down by following the trail of tears.
At this point in a Day, almost better to reset and go into the next Day than drag it out... But at the same time have a few reservations as last game (on NGA) I lynched town as town while hoping to reset.
And I can remember freaking out like this as town before...
At the same time have to note this game is within ballpark range post total of my first game here, Sesame Street mafia. 1.5 k post to its end, but only Day 2 here!
Wow.
Starting some notes on our lurkers just to get something going for when there replacements come in, or they come back.
Starting with the player with the lowest post count, and in no particular order following, here's my thoughts on Killjoy by order of post:
1) Opens with a request for more boxes for KoD to the mod for KoD's FoS opening. Maybe veiled in a joke, but some pressure is being applied here.
Agrees with Sir Chris, moderately, for clearing me, but doesn't agree with D_V clearing Sir Chris (flip town).
Also doesn't agree with Sir Chris calling people who think critically (and possibly to a lesser extend don't cast much suspicion) town. But asks for Sir Chris's theory. Not committing here, so possible sign of suspicion.
Replies to a longer post of Sir Chris's noting "scum don't like to make unnecessary enemies" and that he was already thinking that was what Sir Chris was thinking. It's subtle, but something tells me he thinks they are both town.
Reply to Necarg saying him thinking critically and picking fight doesn't necessarily make him town. (Clearing for the wrong reasons).
Agreeing with the madness of content on page 1 with D_V.
And ends with a request to see a game KoD has been in. If I remember right, this request was flatly denied by KoD.
2) Yeah. Request denied.
Notes my post restriction.
Now asking Fable for a link to one of KoD's games... If they shared a QT I don't think that would be asked in the open, but WIFOM at best.
Asking Yamato for his opinions... None were given before replace out.
Followed by a request for Fable's thoughts.
Now this is weird... A post of Mindreaver breaking down the thoughts of "Fable's rules of KoD" but because of this Killjoy asks "where was this in twinborn". I can't think of any context this makes sense.
Ends post with "Spot"ting Spot.
3) Reply to Mindreaver clarifying he thought D_V was serious, but did not agree with reasoning for clearing.
4) Catch up notice.
5) Another stating up for 24 hours...
6) Welcomes Rhand and Brinatoo, states Fable/KoD likely unaligned, Mind likely town, and asks what Mind wants to know.
7) Denies having a posting restriction, asking someone (post I'm looking at doesn't clarify) what kind of one someone though he had.
Also requests more info on KoD/Fable by way of games they were together in... Can add one more to the list on request.
8) Request for Silver's mafia experience.
9) Clarifies why he was asking the for Silver's experience stating 300+ posts in someone should look scummy to someone experienced, but Silver is noted as fine in his case.
10) Must have been after the post of KoD's that Silver afterwards called a town post. Says that is a lot more opinions than mafia normally have.
Then ends with a catch up notice.
11) Last post 3 Days ago saying falling way behind. But does have some content here.
KoD town, Fable scum, and notes KoD seemed town before Fable outed himself. In other words KoD wasn't trying to fake based on his earlier statements.
Thinks TS is silly for thinking his posting isn't alignment based...
And calls Cythare a possible townie for posting when he doesn't necessarily need to.
----------
Wrap-up: Main motivation seems clearing town and separating pairs, no apparent agenda besides this. Interest in posting restrictions, lack of voting, and no noted scum reads flag, even after his statement to Silver.
I'm not sure he's aligned with Fable, I think it's highly unlikely. Only way I could see it is if KoD and Killjoy are aligned. I don't think that's so.
Lean town.
----------
Will post these as I go and don't mind if someone suggests my next one.
Plan on doing anything this game besides hopping back and forth on wagons?
Why did you jump on the HT wagon when it was picking up speed? Was that just the best place to be at the time?
And how am I bargaining? Is there something wrong with me trying to rationalize why I should keep trying? I mean if I can't think of a reason to keep pushing then what's the point? I wouldn't mind turning the whole thing around and really tilting the scum team.
The scum chat would end up being about how to get me tomorrow and clever town could probably try to set up some traps to find inconsistencies. I don't mind being the bait.
Read the quote in my sig from Nachomamma. That quote applies to this game more than any other I've played.
i actually feel pretty good about what ive done this game.
nice large town circle, willing to lynch everyone outside it.
if theres deep scum, we'll figure it out later. but it sure looks like we're lynching scum the first two days, which is just a great start.
if you somehow just forgot how to be townie and surprise us all with a blue flip, ill even read KoD's posts finally.
but it seems almost impossible that he is scum with halftime, who we are probably lynching at some point regardless of your flip unless something crazy happens.
God damn poppa Tom, you post a hell of a lot for what little you actually say. I'm stopping for the night. Will finish up probably Tuesday? Have work - concert, work - killing joke, more work the next few days but I'll get to what I can where I can. I'm about 72 hours out from current so theoretically there's not much left?
@MR, I still wasn't sure what you meant by consequences but reading back on big poppa Tom I think it clicked, you're basically asking me to chain read, ja? Which I kinda covered in your if they flip question, but only the scum side since that's the premise you put forward. But also in the other part where I said my reads are fairly independent of each other. I don't tether people together in my reads. I will look at interactions within my reads, but as I was saying before I also consider the bussing flip. With that said reads are naturally always in a state of flux so they may not be what they were today at the start of tomorrow (although I'd wager that would depend on a complete upheaval of how I see the game state. Our last completed game on NGA is a good example of that (http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15033). Two of my top three suspects flipped town in the same lynch-following night.) Frankly put, I don't see the point in trying to play fifteen steps ahead of yourself. Seems like a good way to step into a pothole.
@Tom: Well at least there's that much. And short posts are less likely to bog down and crash my phone's (iPhone 4) browser. Last page did it at least 10 or more times to me as the walls built up.
Got one tab set on your opening posts Tom, bear wave hello and opening catch up opinions. And a self imposed post restriction? Man...
Either way late here (10 PM... Or 1 PM where tapping lives, found that funny earlier today) and got to get my sleep in. Hopefully will have something going soon.
@HT - Yeah, I am not interested in building a house of cards, per se. I just want to follow the individual reads to their natural conclusions. I'm almost there, and we'll see where we line up. Mainly, I was interested in getting from "These X people are my scumleans" to "Which would mean A,B,C about how this game has developed" and can we find a place where those thoughts match. As an excerpt, would it make more sense for town!H_T to have scum!D_V and/or scum!TS to draw attention to themselves the way they have? Seems like there would be better ways of pushing for a mislynch...
Why did you jump on the HT wagon when it was picking up speed? Was that just the best place to be at the time?
I did a few breadcrumbs, but this is pretty spot on.
Half_Time Wagon:
Cythare
Shockwave
Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder Leaves for Brinatoo
TS
Me
TS Leaves for Killjoy
D_V
Tom
Cythare Leaves
Tom Leaves for TS
TS
Of that, there is a vote, toward the end of the wagon, that struck me as opportunistic, and also was opportunistic leaving this wagon for something better. Which was Tom.
I'm currently around and will be for probably a few hours (playing games and readings posts here). Currently I will be reading posts I didn't address prior to my post in #1479. As always if there is something you want me to look at, please @ my name in bold color so I see it.
@Tom: Well at least there's that much. And short posts are less likely to bog down and crash my phone's (iPhone 4) browser. Last page did it at least 10 or more times to me as the walls built up.
Got one tab set on your opening posts Tom, bear wave hello and opening catch up opinions. And a self imposed post restriction? Man...
Either way late here (10 PM... Or 1 PM where tapping lives, found that funny earlier today) and got to get my sleep in. Hopefully will have something going soon.
Yeah the timezone thing can be a bit of a hassle. I'm usually posting around the beginning or the tailend of the NA activity slot.
First of all, I apologize to the rest of the game for this. I'm seriously tilted and I probably just need to... not post until TS gets lynched. Also, my deepest sympathies for anyone besides TS who opens the big spoiler, though you may want to anyway...
God how tilted would the scum be in I didn't actually get lynched today?
In all fairness, I'd be willing to start day three with everyone on a clean slate and just work interaction analysis and catch them from point zero again. I'm well aware that some of us (including me) got bogged down by figuring out meta differences and trying to feel out the players. All of us calling each other bad over and over again. I'm curious to see if the mudslinging stops from HT.
But mostly I'd just know how salty the scum would be from not having this mislynch. That feeling alone is worth staying alive another day to hunt them down by following the trail of tears.
Not as tilted as I will be if you dodge the noose. Get bent. You don't get to post the ***** you posted to me and then pretend it never happened.
I found the scum. I can't make you get off your ass and lynch scum. That's life. The case is solid. HT hasn't done jack***** this game. You can taste your mistake with your mislynch. You are the one KILLING TOWN, not I.
Instead of actually pushing people who aren't doing ***** like HT to become more involved and actually scumhunt, or the f-ing band of lurkers, or Kosa. You wanna mislynch me because you can't control your emotions.
You don't deserve to win if you are town and your play has been borderline as scum.
There are reasons I never lose to scum despite always being aligned with different teammates Crystal. I'm good at keeping up pressure and getting strong reactions. You've decieded to blow a gasket and do the scum's work for them, or just be playing the super obvious scum role.
Either way, you've made it impossible for the game to be completed without your eventual lynch. Will town see it?
You are so ******* wrongheaded it isn't even funny. I didn't even vote you after you went down in a fireball of misreps trying to bury me in mud. I didn't vote you until you insulted me by claiming I'm not trying to solve the game. Let me spell it out for you:
I was the last one on your wagon.
Read that twice to yourself. Slowly.
Now think about what I did, and why I did it.
Actually, I'll tell you what I did. I'll narrate my play for you, ok?
I come into Day 2. Fable's a bag of WIFOM. I had previous lean townreads on col_mongoose and Sir Chris. No new info there.
Tom still wants to lynch me, but I think he's prooobably town? You back me up about claiming. Sweet.
TS says he's rereading and he's making a biiig post. Great. I remember how awesome his big posts were in GoldenEye, and figure he'll find something.
H_T makes a post about not knowing what the balls mean. Since I discarded Brinatoo's color index because it was redundant with actual read colors, I can't
help him. He's still suspicious of you, but he was that way most of D1 so whatever.
Mindreaver starts in on H_T because he's suspicious of you. I let him handle himself because I want to see his response.
Charades with Cythare.
Kosa claims. See? I wasn't the Borg after all, and the Borg is Town [redacted] anyway, not a cult. But that's later.
You... naked vote me with no explanation besides "He's tied to Fable". ??? What the **** man, I thought we were cool.
Brinatoo asks you about the alcohol scene.
Half_Time posts his response to Mindreaver. It's pretty much what I would have expected.
Mindreaver continues to press the point on H_T with what seems like a lot of conf bias and OMGUS. I figure this is a playstyle/site meta clash and I'll let them work it out.
Cythare naked votes Half_Time, presumably for Mindreaver's "case," followed by Shockwave and Wheat_Grinder. I read Cythare as either reaction fishing or pressure voting, and Shockwave as very odd. I'm not sure what to make of Wheat's vote.
Then you also go, "wow, look at Mindreaver's points on H_T. We caught scum! Also, he's waiting for my big post to talk about me so that's scummy." And I'm left over here going ?????? Mindreaver's case is not anywhere near a slam dunk but three of my townreads and a null have basically /barned him onto a wagon that even he didn't think was good enough to vote on at the time without adding anything substantial. Also, you false claim.
Tom says something about scum!Tapping being a possibility.
Kosa asks you to explain your read on me and KJ (like, really). And says you're ignoring requests (which you aren't, to my knowledge, to be fair).
Wheat starts a wagon on Shockwave for a gross post. D_V asks what's gross about it (I'm not sure either) but never gets an answer (sadface).
KoD finally talks about the stuff that happened in D1. Then he asks Shockwave about the other GE Humans. I'm basically just watching with interest at the moment. Then he votes you and says you're lying about being Spock.
I respond to Tom's post about scum!you and say I'm a little suspicious because you're not making reads or cases, you're just /barning other people.
KoD says he name-copped you last Night, which draws Kosa and Shockwave onto your wagon. Kosa reads with mild conviction. Shock is just voting whoever it's popular to scum read at the moment.
You call Kosa a "hypocrite" (really?) and say that other people are just hanging out waiting for you to post something. Which... I understand H_T wanting to wait for your post to talk about you because it might give him better insight into your alignment. Plus he doesn't want to taint your reread with his observations. Kosa hasn't posted much toDay, but he had content D1 so it's not like he's DoTA or Necarg pushing you to post something. And he didn't even ask for your big post, just an explanation on me and KJ.
KoD says he was waiting for you, too.
You make a big dramatic post saying people are scum reading you for being on the other side of the world (which, they aren't) and you haven't had time. I figure you're taking this too personally so I try to back you down and convince you to finish your post.
You post that travesty of a case against me, which amounts to "he defended Fable once and Fable told D_V to answer his question once."
KoD says it's scummy to volunteer information about your role and get caught lying. I don't agree, town lies for various reasons, but I'm going to see what shakes out.
You say your role is townie because it's a mod reveal, then start complaining about how no one is doing anything. Obviously you're taking it personally, so I leave it alone.
You come back from your break and say "Oh look, no one did anything." And my first thought is "You want everyone else to give you special treatment because you're in China, but you can't bother to check the time in the states to realize it's after four in the morning here."
Your KJ case isn't great, either, but I'll reiterate why when I get to my response to that.
You volunteer more information about your role, claiming the Mods told you it was fine and that you were trying to eat a NK. Ok, fine.
I respond to your case with a high effort post containing links, quotes, and motivations. I get absolutely nothing back from you.
H_T makes another post. I'm mostly skipping these at this point, both because I already made a huge post about them and because I wasn't following them closely.
You ask Tom for his thoughts on your two "cases."
I defend you for lying, saying you lied in GoldenEye as town.
Tom deflects from your KJ case and says I don't seem to have teammates.
You beg me to go through interactions with dead players. Like, obviously, what do you think I've been doing? Pretty sure a lot of us have been doing it, we're just waiting for your post because we don't want to taint the results and discussion after. You already promised a post, no one else did.
I tell you your cases are full of conf biasing.
You say your read on me developed after your reread. Which doesn't refute conf biasing... it affirms it. Conf biasing is when you go back with the specific intent of finding scummy (or townie!) interactions and posts. If you're only looking for one or the other, you'll miss the things that made you think the person was the other alignment in the first place. Your post ends with "you guys(not literally you) want to spend all of day two chasing the guy that's actually playing to win?"
My response is to the last question is "no, I want to analyze Fable's wagon." And you blow up on me because you assume I'm answering a different question. Whatever. Obviously you're not paying attention at this point, because "not looking at other players" obviously doesn't mesh with "analyze Fable's wagon."
The I actually do the wagon analysis, but the only people who mention it later are Mindreaver, Tom, and Cythare. In fact, you quote the whole post just to comment on my one line to you and completely ignore the analysis I did. oh, and you yell at me because you thought you asked me about your KJ case... but you asked Tom.
Obviously I point this out, and you say "well, just look at it when you get a chance." Ok. My response to your KJ post is greeted with complete silence, probably because I concluded KJ was not aligned with Fable.
Wheat votes you, for what I'm reading as trying to get everyone else to post their reads when you've already promised to post yours and complaining about being under pressure.
I post a defense of Half_Time because I think mind has it wrong... Like I've thought since the beginning. And since everyone else /barned his read, if he's wrong the rest of you are too.
Mindreaver responds to my H_T defense. I'm not sure I ever actually replied to this, but I think my huge analysis serves in its stead.
Oh, never mind, I totally responded to that. At this point I'm thinking that everyone is talking past each other and this is just a meta/playstyle clash. There's quite a bit of confbiasing and misrepping on both sides, and I'm sure the scum team is actually laughing at us in the scum chat right now.
D_V thinks my response to Mind is chainsawing for H_T.... when it pretty clearly isn't.
You say you're waiting for a "real case against you." The "case" against you is basically that you're lying and sheeping other people's reads. Which is not only scummy in a vacuum but against your meta. I'm still not on your wagon even though my case is strongest. Because I still think you might be town.
Your response to me correction of your dramatic self-victimizing post is to ask why people aren't hunting for scum and why they're naked voting you. Which is yet another gross misrepresentation of you wagon. KoD's vote is easily justified, and so is Wheat's. Shockwave is easily the worst vote on you, because he's essentially the only bad one. Then you try to buddy up to me. "I get the feeling I might be wrong about you." What the hell is that?
Shockwave decides you're a neutral and unvotes you, and you push him to find scum.
Anyway, I tell you the bad news about your wagon, and get told the scum are lurking or kicking back on your wagon. Even though I just said they're probably not on your wagon. Whatever.
I case Necarg where my vote has been most of the day, and decide he's probably not aligned with Fable.
You claim Kosa said he liked you and that you were town in his first few mentions... Ok, but after that when you kept badgering him he flipped his read on you. Which you conveniently ignore to throw shade.
You vote Killjoy for being not present. You still have not posted about your pages of notes and are under no pressure to do so.
More charades with Cythare.
Scum have day chat. Probably. Fable was trying to use the Borg as a distraction for town. The Doctor might be a fake.
You ask me for reads on the lurkers, which I supply. Again. And get ignored. Again. Except by Cythare.
I ask DoTA for his reaction to Fable's wagon... and his response is basically "there's probably scum on that." No *****.
Then the latinum stuff where I slipped my role.
Brinatoo complains that I missed his vote on you and reasons. Sorry Brin. Still think he's town for this.
DoTA cases me or something. Eminently forgettable since it's the same stuff you already said. I say as much, and explain latinum roles.
Shockwave makes a weird post about latinum and how he knows about it from flavor.
KoD says I'm scummy for something I didn't mean that way. Seems to be a lot of that going around...
You get mad at KoD for casing you and not anyone else.
D_V says H_T is scummy because he think Mindreaver is scummy for not replying to him. Then you barn him. This is not a real scum tell. Come on guys.
KoD makes a post about Fable. You give him an "atta boy, do it again."
D_V votes H_T while making up ridiculous scum reads on him. "He always says TS is town but now is scumreading him" is flagrantly false, for example.
You say you "kept the pressure on Fable," like you're pulling to get credit for it, when Fable lynched himself and it had nothing to do with you. If anything, it was Wheat.
Next big thing is you saying H_T is either scum trying to mediate (that's not a scum tell) or arrogant town. Then you throw out the idea of him ebing town because he's not applying any pressure (what's he doing with Mind then?) plus this nonsense:
One thing about scum is that they sometimes miss obvious things. Since they are pretending to be something they aren't they often forget a piece or two. It's hard to hold everything together (glitches in the Matrix), as we prod them more and more the glitches are more likely to be seen. From my experience they usually either start mudslinging or playing the fool. "Oops! I meant ____" or what he's doing to you right now "I disagree with you, therefore you are scummy".
The last sentence is pretty clearly trying to set me up for a scum read on the same grounds.
You ask for help with interaction analysis, and I post my Shockwave case... which goes completely ignored until I bring it up again.
Instead, you start back in on Half_Time, about something he said a while ago, and make big, long, insulting post that's a complete misrepresentation of what he's been saying.
D_V accuses KoD of not using good logic... but D_V can't even read past posts, apparently. The irony kills me. Plus this:
Also also, Half isn't saying we'll get nothing from rereading. He is saying that focusing on deciphering Fable's posts will yield nothing. That literally means the same thing.
Which is flagrantly wrong. You can look at what other people said about a person without looking at what that person said. It's a false equivalence.
I get an actual post about H_T's scum motive from Mind. Finally, someone says something that makes some sense, but he even seems to think H_T might be town still. He's just trying to put pressure on him to do something.
You say KoD's sentence (the one above) isn't logical, too. Obviously, you and D_V both forgot about nuance and are playing completely from the hip.
You say "D_V is using logic and KoD is blindly defending." Which is flagrantly false. D_V is blindly attacking and KoD is using logic. How do you even read the game and get this so backwards? Are you just that tunneled?
I make my big post. That's three ******* hours of quoting, analyzing, and typing, and formatting. A 23 ******* page word document.
At the end of my post I write this: "For the record, I like my vote where it is for now, but if I had to pick someone from this analysis for the lynch it'd be TS. Though D_V is probably gross in all the little posts I skipped, too, but **** adding those to the analysis. They're both reasonable votes to me."
Tom asks who is ok with lynching H_T. I say I would prefer a TS or D_V lynch to that.
D_V nitpicks one small thing I missed, then never mentions it again.
After reading your big post I'm pretty disappointed where you are at in this game Silver. Your reread of HT was full of generalities that seemed crafted to put HT in a good light and anyone who opposed him as scummy. In your bizarre world you think three scum players are going after HT with that much gusto and barning each other just to push a single mislynch on someone who isn't even looking for alignments? Get real. You are not critically thinking about this discussion you had a view in mind when you wrote that reread and you made sure everything fit snuggly with your previously held views. There isn't a single reaction that appears to show that you were seeing any new ideas in the reread.
I think if HT flips scum you are also likely scum. I played with you in Goldeneye and you were really paranoid of making bad reads and consistently second guessing obvious plays like considering letting Brinato live another day to go after Hunger. It was a healthy paranoia which you thankfully pulled back from.
But your reread just recks of trying to prove the notions you already had, not solving the game.
Then you try to say I think all three of you are scum (you Mind, D_V). Which is a flagrant misrepresentation. Not only that, you openly state that you would be railing on Necarg to get him mislynched. How do you know he's a mislynch TS?
After reading your big post I'm pretty disappointed where you are at in this game Silver. Your reread of HT was full of generalities that seemed crafted to put HT in a good light and anyone who opposed him as scummy. In your bizarre world you think three scum players are going after HT with that much gusto and barning each other just to push a single mislynch on someone who isn't even looking for alignments? Get real. You are not critically thinking about this discussion you had a view in mind when you wrote that reread and you made sure everything fit snuggly with your previously held views. There isn't a single reaction that appears to show that you were seeing any new ideas in the reread.
You misunderstood then. I think one of you and D_V is scum. Both of you are playing extremely poorly if you're town. Mindreaver is probably town. Half_Time is... like I said in the post you quoted, he's reasonable but not strongly town. But all of the townies involved are devoting far too much energy to... whatever this thing is. You think Half_Time is scum, but obviously you can't prove it to our satisfaction. Why not hunt for his buddies instead of drive-by mud slinging and misrepping him to get him lynched?
I think if HT flips scum you are also likely scum. I played with you in Goldeneye and you were really paranoid of making bad reads and consistently second guessing obvious plays like considering letting Brinato live another day to go after Hunger. It was a healthy paranoia which you thankfully pulled back from.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. My paranoia was "healthy" but "thankfully I pulled back from" it?
Other than the fact I'm a little sloppy, I'm not sure why you would say my play is substantially different from GoldenEye. Other than you think I'm making a bad read by considering you to be scummy. Obviously I'm not the only one with reservations about your play this game.
But your reread just recks of trying to prove the notions you already had, not solving the game.
Sort of like your case against me? Regardless, I didn't set out to prove my own notions. I read post by post and reconsidered motivations. To be honest, I wasn't following it that closely until I went back just now and isolated the post from the rest of the thread.
Why are you /barning Mind and D_V? Where's your independent case on H_T? Will I get a response to my reply against your case on me? Do you really think I faked that Fable interaction? Why do you think I'm scum with H_T? What about my Shockwave case?
Which is basically pointing out your misrep and asking you some questions. In response, you merely state my questions have been answered. Seriously, what the ****? You made no posts between mine and this one. Go look. And you say you "don't remember" my points on Shockwave... you probably just never read them. And then you make this post:
@Crystal-
#1220-Is the one I can't really understand. I don't see the town nor the scum mindset in this post. Which I can't really explain.
The % of busy work in his posts is too high.
The one thing I'm trying to be aware of though is that I feel the players from NGA aren't used to being held to a high standard of play and even though some of them aren't dummies they aren't used to being forced to work-hard to find scum. It comes across as just bidding time and fluff but they literally seem like they don't know what scum hunting is about.
I don't have experience with Shock and I've voiced suspicion of him in thread but do I really have anything on him? Not really. Outside of a plea for more content? I've been weighing where KoD is at back and forth in my mind for a while now. He spent day one saying Town!SirChris was scum and that Scum!Fable was town but he doesn't seem at all introspective or trying to be careful not to make the same mistakes again. I have a theory that this is inbred from his local site (though it's just a thought). Then we find ourselves on day two, I know my own alignment and I find KoD at it again. It's frustrating and you can see through the thread that I'm not liking how he's playing.
Which is basically #1 trying to make a null case on him, not responding to the points I made, and #2, the same as the case against Half_Time, but H_T deserves to get lynched for it. At this time, I'm assuming that you're misrepping and dodging intentionally because it looks suspicious as hell. So I post this:
After reading your big post I'm pretty disappointed where you are at in this game Silver. Your reread of HT was full of generalities that seemed crafted to put HT in a good light and anyone who opposed him as scummy. In your bizarre world you think three scum players are going after HT with that much gusto and barning each other just to push a single mislynch on someone who isn't even looking for alignments? Get real. You are not critically thinking about this discussion you had a view in mind when you wrote that reread and you made sure everything fit snuggly with your previously held views. There isn't a single reaction that appears to show that you were seeing any new ideas in the reread.
You misunderstood then. I think one of you and D_V is scum. Both of you are playing extremely poorly if you're town. Mindreaver is probably town. Half_Time is... like I said in the post you quoted, he's reasonable but not strongly town. But all of the townies involved are devoting far too much energy to... whatever this thing is. You think Half_Time is scum, but obviously you can't prove it to our satisfaction. Why not hunt for his buddies instead of drive-by mud slinging and misrepping him to get him lynched?
I think if HT flips scum you are also likely scum. I played with you in Goldeneye and you were really paranoid of making bad reads and consistently second guessing obvious plays like considering letting Brinato live another day to go after Hunger. It was a healthy paranoia which you thankfully pulled back from.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. My paranoia was "healthy" but "thankfully I pulled back from" it?
Other than the fact I'm a little sloppy, I'm not sure why you would say my play is substantially different from GoldenEye. Other than you think I'm making a bad read by considering you to be scummy. Obviously I'm not the only one with reservations about your play this game.
But your reread just recks of trying to prove the notions you already had, not solving the game.
Sort of like your case against me? Regardless, I didn't set out to prove my own notions. I read post by post and reconsidered motivations. To be honest, I wasn't following it that closely until I went back just now and isolated the post from the rest of the thread.
Why are you /barning Mind and D_V? Where's your independent case on H_T? Will I get a response to my reply against your case on me? Do you really think I faked that Fable interaction? Why do you think I'm scum with H_T? What about my Shockwave case?
I believe I answered all your questions. Let me know what you want answered specifically. You believe I "faked" my Fable interactions? And I didn't say you were scum, I said if HT is scum then I think you are likely scum.
In regard to Shockwave, I am also wary of him. I don't remember if you had some points different from mind but I can go back and have a look. I think the lynch today is likely HT based on how much of a firestorm has built up around him.
In regards to my comment about healthy paranoia in Goldeneye, that was based on you having pretty solid reads on who the scum were but still coming back with statements like, maybe this guy is scum based on X,Y,Z. I specifically remember this discussed on the last day where Brinatoo was going down and Hunger (who wasn't really in consideration) somehow got thrust into the discussion. It was super towny. You were like, "Wait, I don't want to f-this up, what if Hunger is deep scum" that kind of idea is something I feel I can spot when it's genuine. I'm not getting that careful yet persistent game-solving rationale from you so far.
I actually felt very paranoid of you on my reread because over the first 7 pages your posts set me off and I posted all instances that gave me cause for pause. I feel slightly better about you based on the "middle of the day" stuff but this latest big post by you is inauthentic. I'm not sure how else to describe it. It's like you want me to be scum even though there isn't a strong case for it.
@Crystal-Let's thing about the next level. If I shot HT right now "split second" and he flipped scum what would be the POE pile in your opinion. I have a reason I'm asking you this so if you could get into notepad and hash it out I would greatly appreciate it.
You literally just ignored my questions without answering them TS. That isn't going to fly.
Why are you /barning Mindreaver and D_V? Will you respond to my reply against your case? Do you think I faked the interactions with Fable I quoted there? Why do you think I'm likely scum with Half_Time? What about my Shockwave case? Are you too tunneled on H_T to find his buddies, or are you too invested in the bus for the towncred and my mislynch? Do you really think scum!Silver defends his buddy this openly and aggressively? Why wouldn't I bus him into the dirt when he's under this much fire from my town reads?Most of these are yes/no. The last one asks for my scum motivation for doing what I'm doing, which you should already have been thinking about if I'm scum with H_T. None should be particularly difficult for town!TS to answer. Please stop dodging them.
There's not a strong case against you? You're behaving extremely erratically. Especially compared to GoldenEye. You're /barning other people. You're misrepresenting them. You're trying to set me up to take the next lynch based solely on the fact that I have a different scum list than you and don't want a H_T lynch.
In fact, you're misrepping me right this very moment by claiming I think all three of you are scum pushing H_T as a mislynch. I never said that. On several occasions I've said Mindreaver is probably town. I literally just said it again. One of you or D_V is either aggressively pushing a mislynch or aggressively bussing. And actually, bussing almost seems more likely at this point because you can say "Yeah, I was right! Now lynch Silver, his definite scum buddy that isn't plausible buddies with Fable!"
@Crystal-
#1220-Is the one I can't really understand. I don't see the town nor the scum mindset in this post. Which I can't really explain.
The % of busy work in his posts is too high.
The one thing I'm trying to be aware of though is that I feel the players from NGA aren't used to being held to a high standard of play and even though some of them aren't dummies they aren't used to being forced to work-hard to find scum. It comes across as just bidding time and fluff but they literally seem like they don't know what scum hunting is about.
I don't have experience with Shock and I've voiced suspicion of him in thread but do I really have anything on him? Not really. Outside of a plea for more content? I've been weighing where KoD is at back and forth in my mind for a while now. He spent day one saying Town!SirChris was scum and that Scum!Fable was town but he doesn't seem at all introspective or trying to be careful not to make the same mistakes again. I have a theory that this is inbred from his local site (though it's just a thought). Then we find ourselves on day two, I know my own alignment and I find KoD at it again. It's frustrating and you can see through the thread that I'm not liking how he's playing.
H_T is just ringing all the bells though. I think Shockwave and KoD could very well be town. I have no such feelings about H_T.
It feels like you are looking to run up anyone else BUT H_T even though EVEN YOU admit you don't have him as strongly town. You are pushing me, D_V and Shockwave.
But I'm very curious on your detailed take on the question I asked you about H_T flipping scum right now off a vig shot. Tell me what you would think about the game state please.
So, your response to my entire Shockwave case is that he made one post from a null mindset and that makes you think he's not scum? What the actual hell man. The percent of busywork in his posts is high, which is literally the case against Half_Time, but Shockwave is somehow not scummy for it and H_T is?
And here's some more misreps. KoD did not spend D1 saying Fable was town, that's already been pointed out to you. I'm pretty sure he didn't say Chris was scum all D1, either. Let me check. Oh, wow. At one point, he says he thinks Chris and Fable might be scum together, then about two hundred posts later, he has Chris in his town pile and Fable in his scum pile. It's like you aren't even looking. You and D_V both. You just say whatever you want to try to get the guy lynched, and you don't understand why I have reservations about lynching him?
The next best thing I could do in this post would be to organize the names from most townie to most scummy. I guess I can do that.
Cythare
Mind
Silver
DV
Rhand
Brina
Chris
----------
Goose
Half
Seppel
Wasabi
----------
Shock
Killjoy
Stones
Fable
Necar/Kosa
DoT
So yeah.
As for the PoE pile if H_T flipped scum? You and D_V as buss-spects are at the top now. Then the lurkers with DoTA still at the top of them due to their interactions with Fable. Because you're absolutely right, I don't think scum would push a mislynch this aggressively. But you might drive a bus like that. Sorry it isn't as "detailed" as you probably hoped, but I don't really care.
Notice the bold at the end. Because you come back with this steaming sack of crap:
Have you completely imploded? This is NOT the townCyrstal I played with in Goldeneye, if it is you are playing very pooly.
I have answered these questions, I will answer them again. YOU also have ******* outstanding questions UNANSWERED. Don't tell me I am the only one who has to answer questions.
"Why are you /barning Mindreaver and D-V?" Because I agree with them. What part of that isn't computing with you? "TS, why are you agreeing with someone?" Because they sound like they are on the right track. This question makes no sense.
"Will you respond to my reply against your case?" Are you talking about some specific post? What are you asking me to reply to? In regard to H_T you say he isn't a solid town read, I disagreed with just about everything you have said about him. There is nothing towny about his play. I asked recently who is still town reading him because I think anyone who is higher then null isn't paying much attention this game or has alterior motives.
"Do you think I faked the interaction with Fable?" It's definitely possible. My interactions with Fable would be considerably harder to fake than yours, so the pot is calling the kettle back if you aren't considering my interactions which Fable.
Your defense of HT is inauthentic. Which I have ALREADY ******* told you. But sure, keep asking me the same questions that I've already answered to try and make it look like I'm not answering. I gave comments on your reread of HT, have others? Not many. But you are misrepping the person who has ALREADY given answers.
About Shockwave- AGAIN, I've ALREADY talked about this. I said the thing that throws me off is the one post I listed and I ALREADY told you why. How many times are you going to ask me the same question? Again, close to know one BUT ME is responding to your posts. This game has 14 players left. Stop being such a hypocrite. I never said he's not scum. Misrep much?
"Are you too tunneled on HT to find his buddies?" I've ALREADY talked about finding his buddies and Mindreaver has commented back on that post about how to find those on the periphery that could be scum mates. READ the thread. Apparently, you don't like the carrot so this is going to have to be all stick from now on.
You asked if I'm bussing? That would imply you think HT is scum. If you think he's town then I can't be bussing based on your feeling that I am scum. Which one is it? Stop playing both sides of the fence.
HT is under fire from your town reads? Could have fooled me, he's under most fire from D_V and I whom you are trying to get lynched. Mindreaver is in there too but it's disingenuous to say your town reads are attacking him.
One of you or D_V is either aggressively pushing a mislynch or aggressively bussing. And actually, bussing almost seems more likely at this point because you can say "Yeah, I was right! Now lynch Silver, his definite scum buddy that isn't plausible buddies with Fable!"
Here is the grossest thing you have said in this game. Hope everyone is paying attention.
The parts in bold. So according to you there is literally NO scenario where we aren't scum. If I lead us to successive scum kills I'm bussing and if he flips town its a mislynch. Do you see how bad this makes you look?
And then you say, I'm likely bussing. So we both agree that HT is scum then right? You can't say it's likely I'm bussing and that HT is town. This is hilarious. It can't be both Crystal. You can't town read a guy AND say I'm bussing him.
Seems like a pretty big slip.
Then, you start throwing shade on CYTHARE for voting you while you're in the middle of a nuclear meltdown of misreps trying to bury me in mud.
Have you completely imploded? This is NOT the townCyrstal I played with in Goldeneye, if it is you are playing very pooly.
I'm not imploding. I'm exploding if anything. Sorry if my gameplay here doesn't totally match the one game I have completed, but one data point does not a pattern make. As I've already told you.
I have answered these questions, I will answer them again. YOU also have ******* outstanding questions UNANSWERED. Don't tell me I am the only one who has to answer questions.
I never said you were the only one who had to answer questions. I was bolding for emphasis only. Please calm down. If I have outstanding questions, you'll have to direct them to me if you'd like a response before I get desktop access back because I'm not sifting through the thread on mobile.
"Why are you /barning Mindreaver and D-V?" Because I agree with them. What part of that isn't computing with you? "TS, why are you agreeing with someone?" Because they sound like they are on the right track. This question makes no sense.
The part where you never did it in GoldenEye. The part where you expressed suspicion of Proph and Blos for literally the entire game because of Proph's /barning.
Will you respond to my reply against your case?" Are you talking about some specific post? What are you asking me to reply to? In regard to H_T you say he isn't a solid town read, I disagreed with just about everything you have said about him. There is nothing towny about his play. I asked recently who is still town reading him because I think anyone who is higher then null isn't paying much attention this game or has alterior motives.
Yes, shortly after you posted your "case" against me I responded to it. I'd link it for you, but I'm on mobile. If you can wait for me to get back to my desktop I'll link it for you or you can check my iso.
"Do you think I faked the interaction with Fable?" It's definitely possible. My interactions with Fable would be considerably harder to fake than yours, so the pot is calling the kettle back if you aren't considering my interactions which Fable.
Since you admit not knowing what post I'm talking about, this reply is irrelevant. I'm talking about the interaction I posted in my reply to your case.
As for your own Fable interaction, I don't know what's fakeable and what isn't for you. Certainly anything is possibly true, but I didn't consider it likely to be fake at the time.
Your defense of HT is inauthentic. Which I have ALREADY ******* told you. But sure, keep asking me the same questions that I've already answered to try and make it look like I'm not answering. I gave comments on your reread of HT, have others? Not many. But you are misrepping the person who has ALREADY given answers.
I didn't ask you about my Half_Time case, though I appreciate the feedback. But since you brought it up, do you think I was trying to prevent his lynch by posting that? I think my thought process is pretty clear there.
I intended only to isolate the "discussion" from the rest of the thread and analyze it. Sorry you came out looking bad. Would you care to compare it to my isos on Blos and Ghosting in GoldenEye?
About Shockwave- AGAIN, I've ALREADY talked about this. I said the thing that throws me off is the one post I listed and I ALREADY told you why. How many times are you going to ask me the same question? Again, close to know one BUT ME is responding to your posts. This game has 14 players left. Stop being such a hypocrite. I never said he's not scum. Misrep much?
You literally fence sat him and said H_T is scummier but the cases are virtually identical. Actually, Shockwave looks scummier because of the things I laid out it in the post, which you didn't actually reply to. You just said "look at his #whatever, it's null, so H_T is scummier."
"Are you too tunneled on HT to find his buddies?" I've ALREADY talked about finding his buddies and Mindreaver has commented back on that post about how to find those on the periphery that could be scum mates. READ the thread. Apparently, you don't like the carrot so this is going to have to be all stick from now on.
I need the stick? I have more posts and analysis in this thread than you. Besides, if you've been employing the carrot this whole time with me you've got a funny way of showing it. I'll drag this town to post real analysis and cases kicking and screaming if I have to. I refuse to endorse the H_T wagon until someone posts a real case that doesn't have outright falsehoods in it.
You asked if I'm bussing? That would imply you think HT is scum. If you think he's town then I can't be bussing based on your feeling that I am scum. Which one is it? Stop playing both sides of the fence.
I said bussing is more likely than pushing a mislynch later. Quit twisting my words. I think if H_T flips town you're playing terribly and if he flips scum you or D_V is driving the bus.
HT is under fire from your town reads? Could have fooled me, he's under most fire from D_V and I whom you are trying to get lynched. Mindreaver is in there too but it's disingenuous to say your town reads are attacking him.
I'm not pushing your lynch, but if you and D_V are going to lie or not fact check to push a case I'd rather see one of you hang than H_T. Plus you were all three in my town reads at the beginning of the Day and D_V was until I did the analysis. Check my Fable wagon analysis if you don't believe me.
One of you or D_V is either aggressively pushing a mislynch or aggressively bussing. And actually, bussing almost seems more likely at this point because you can say "Yeah, I was right! Now lynch Silver, his definite scum buddy that isn't plausible buddies with Fable!"
Here is the grossest thing you have said in this game. Hope everyone is paying attention.
The parts in bold. So according to you there is literally NO scenario where we aren't scum. If I lead us to successive scum kills I'm bussing and if he flips town its a mislynch. Do you see how bad this makes you look?
Do see me not giving a **** how it makes me look? Fable is a bag of WIFOM and you definitively didn't lead us to that lynch. He strung us along like his playthings to it laughing all the way. I also didn't say you were scum aggressively pushing a mislynch. But I can see how you read that. My position is you are either the worst town I've read yet or bussing scum. Nothing else makes sense.
And then you say, I'm likely bussing. So we both agree that HT is scum then right? You can't say it's likely I'm bussing and that HT is town. This is hilarious. It can't be both Crystal. You can't town read a guy AND say I'm bussing him.
I never said I thought right this second that you were "likely" to be bussing, I believe I qualified that with "if H_T flips scum." It's also possible you're playing poorly and D_V is bussing.
Seems like a pretty big slip.
Like the one you made that Kosa pointed out? You did seem to think Necarg would flip town there.
How is catching multiple scum by day two bad town play?
You have really burnt bridges with me going forward. I'm getting out of this thread for a bit because I come here to have a good serious game of Mafia and enjoy myself. Watching you stoop to this kind of low to mislynch me is really low Crystal.
It's piss poor town play and bad sportsmanship.
Seriously. What the **** man. You’re the one with conducting themselves badly. I’ve “burnt bridges” because I pointed out you were wrong and misrepping me? You’re going to carry this disagreement into future games? That’s just about the worst sportsmanship possible. You’re literally trying to make me back off by shaming me. Die in a fire.
At least Tom/Cythare/Wheat/Mind have my back. If any of them are scum I’d rather lose to them than win with you, because of your behavior. I actually still don’t think you’re scum. I’m like 65-70% you’re town. But if you don’t die toDay or toNight I’m going to seriously consider replacing out.
On top of that stuff, over the last two pages you’ve essentially said that Mindreaver's vote would be more palatable than my suspicion and that I'm not scum hunting. Are you serious? You, D_V, and Mind have been practically tunneled on Half_Time all Day. And I'm not scum hunting just because I don't think H_T is scum? I've cased Necarg, all the lurkers, Shockwave, you (basically), and H_T. Plus I did Fable's wagon analysis. Get ******* bent.
Like, maybe if you actually went back and looked and then said, "You're right Silver, I was wrong, I didn't answer your questions, you've made a lot of cases, and I'm sorry but I was pretty tilted" or something. But you're so goddamn arrogant that you don't even think you did anything wrong! The possibility hasn't even entered you head that maybe the people you're arguing with are actually right. More's the pity, because I was looking forward to playing another game with you after GoldenEye.
I seriously, seriously hope you're scum, but even that won't excuse your behavior at this point. And yes, I want you dead for selfish reasons, but I'm so tilted at this point I don't care. You don't get to pull that ***** and then try to pretend it never happened.
@The rest of you: Sorry, again. I don't normally get this tilted. Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I need a break.
I'm currently around and will be for probably a few hours (playing games and readings posts here). Currently I will be reading posts I didn't address prior to my post in #1479. As always if there is something you want me to look at, please @ my name in bold color so I see it.
Given that half your points on TS seem to apply to silver instead, fable, he might have a point that you aren't paying close enough attention. At least that's where the witch hunting comments seem to lead to me, as TS was talking about hypothetical witch hunting and silver was the one that said he wasn't witch hunting him in the specific. I think both sides of that are being a bit poorly misrepresented as silver was never indicating additional shade be thrown to better players, rather not cutting them extra slack. Kind of opposite sides of the same coin. It seems to me that those involved in this are only looking at one side. Somebody says don't give them a pass. The other side looks at that as throw extra shade on them and vice versa. In reality though playing them straight up means no passes and no extra shade and saying one isn't indicative of the other.
Okay. So I'm not going to post by post lime a lot of people are seeming to do. As my regulars know most of my posting lately has been phone posting and doing that is a hassle. I've let people run their course a bit so I'm going to give my initial reads here and then continue with my guerilla style posting.
KoD - KoD is being a blend of his usual argumentative self and what I can only label as playing dumb. Typically he's a logic driven player who can't admit he was wrong. Half of this can be seen by the random argument and that would be the can't admit he was wrong part. Assuming unstated reasons simply do not exist and people are randomly moving through the game is about as far from logical as one can get, hence the playing dumb part. If I had to guess he chose the opposite path that I did in this alien environment of splashing around, making waves, and trying to read the displacement. This is a manner similar to how I see Fable act in games, which is where I'd probably attribute people comparing the two. Null lean for now, based on prior experience with both townKoD and scumKoD.
Chris - Still don't agree with the town clear on Shock, especially given that it's coming out that his actions are more role related than behavioral, but I understand the theory Chris was using. Same goes for his interactions with KoD. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but I understand his reasons and where he's coming from. Currently leaning town.
Cyth - I find the cat persona a bit difficult to get a handle on. But I'm starting to pattern the nuances. Having used roles that essentially blocked players from talking before without actually being silent roles, I can understand the difficulty in having to convey yourself without words. Currently a null lean.
TS - I kinda don't like this guy's holy-er than thou posting mentality with all his talk of player level and what have you. Given Chris made a similar comment about hardware though, I take it you guys put a lot of stock in your track records. Personally I find that dumb, but I am a Johnny not a Spike. Null lean.
Fable - I don't have much experience with this guy. Only one completed game shared so far. As I said under KoD, he seemed to be trying to read the displacement as well, but unlike KoD he simmered down when he started taking heat. I don't like that. Slight scum lean.
Shock - As I understand it Shock is more of a regular here. Or was? I'd consider him a P/T player in NGA and I've said more than once over there that I just read him as scum like all the time. This game isn't an exception with his relative flying under the radarness. Slight scum read. I will caveat that if he is a little more prominent here and people (read as a majority) seem to town read him I'll probably attribute this read to bias since I've literally scum read him in every single game we've played together.
Kosa - I like Kosa's analysis so far. Not necessarily all the conclusions but the general nature of the actions. A question here, unrelated to reads, when you say BusyStuff that's essentially saying a post ja fluff/filler ja? Slight town read.
Necar - I'm not sure if he's trying to push some buttons or is just generally misreading situations. He's being thrown down as bandwagon Inga because of his vote on fable, but in the same post he tried to say KoD was using an LaL stand. So I'm currently leaning g to the latter? Anybody with more experience got some insight on if he does this on the regular?
Nobody else has really stood out for me as a prominent player yet. Killjoy, wasabi, and JD I recall posting but haven't formed anything on them yet. There are a few others that I'll have to go dig into more because I seriously don't remember posts from (like DoT but given their last post I'm willing to give them some time).
@TS, that blurb was commentary on basically how you present yourself and not necessarily your game play. I made the Johnny-Spike correlation because I don't believe we should all be of one mind but the difference in our mentalities will likely result in me being a bit stand offish with you because of it. Rather than wait until we actually do clash, I figured I'd be forth coming in my perspective. If that makes sense to you.
@MR, you weren't a stand out player when I did my reads post in terms of prominence. While you were one of the more active thread participants I didn't feel you were a driving force in any campaign yet. You definitely changed that with your kosa assessment. I will, however, disagree with your conclusion (but not your premise). My experience with stream of consciousness posters is that they literally do just dump their thoughts onto the thread like you're saying of kosa, but they use that almost as a journal of thoughts. They can go back, review all their posts in sequence to get a refresher on where their head was at certain points in the game, and then start connecting dots and digging further into areas they want to revisit fully. I don't particularly find this method of play scummy.
@Rhand, um...that was a KoD joke. Get it? But seriously null probably isn't really a lean (it'd be more of a straight up type of position) but when I talk reads I tend to use that terminology regardless of if I'm talking scum, town, or null.
In not specifically addressed matters, my current focus is what DoT will be bringing to the table.
@Rhand, I was referring to the OMGUS being weaker if kosa's accusation on TS ended up being true. Looking back that was an ambiguous modifier since I mentioned looking back on TS's posts in there.
On the matter as a whole, kosa is right, not right. At least to me. TS was clearly wagoning hard on Mind's post but it feels less scum murder wagon to me. More like TS had the mind set, "I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing. Taking into account that TS goes back to follow up not only on the subject that rhand brought up when he voted but a post killjoy made before the fact, and I'm pretty sure TS didn't see rhand's vote before making his own, indicating the pile on was likely coincidental. This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post. DV's vote seems like the most suspicious on the Kosa wagon, given that kosa didn't make a blatant OMGUS, and ended up being a bit justified. Given how I assessed TS's initial post, I do not feel like DV's vote was to swing pressure off of TS, but if anything is a murderous intent bandwagon vote.
@Rhand, I was referring to the OMGUS being weaker if kosa's accusation on TS ended up being true. Looking back that was an ambiguous modifier since I mentioned looking back on TS's posts in there.
On the matter as a whole, kosa is right, not right. At least to me. TS was clearly wagoning hard on Mind's post but it feels less scum murder wagon to me. More like TS had the mind set, "I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing. Taking into account that TS goes back to follow up not only on the subject that rhand brought up when he voted but a post killjoy made before the fact, and I'm pretty sure TS didn't see rhand's vote before making his own, indicating the pile on was likely coincidental. This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post. DV's vote seems like the most suspicious on the Kosa wagon, given that kosa didn't make a blatant OMGUS, and ended up being a bit justified. Given how I assessed TS's initial post, I do not feel like DV's vote was to swing pressure off of TS, but if anything is a murderous intent bandwagon vote.
@Reaver, why would I not post about a vote I said I was going to take a closer look at? You seem to be of the mindset that if you aren't town clearing somebody or trying to burn somebody at the stake you should be keeping your trap shut. I don't see how that is a helpful method of playing for town at all. (And that is how you actually throw shade)
I mentioned KJ's post because it was the factor that disconnected TS's vote from Rhand's for me. Given that Kosa had connected them, it seemed like a prudent thing to mention on why I was disconnecting them. I then analyzed the vote. Again, given its the crux of what I'm analyzing not mentioning doesn't seem prudent.
The TS and DV situations are different from the start. With TS I analyzed what Kosa was leveling at him and then presented my opinion of the situation. If you took out the first half, you'd have something more closely resembling the DV situation, as I'd merely be presenting a read rather than analysis of somebody else's read in addition to my own.
If you read the one Shock posted here for KoD/Fable, I'm 15377 there. Commonly referred to as numbers.
@DV, so what you're saying is you OMGUS'd on TS's behalf? Seems a bit more than hypocritical. Unless you're not saying that your reason is irrelevant?
@TS, as I covered in 323 kosa isn't off base in his accusation against you even if he is off base in the specifics of it. You very clearly bandwagoned and then went back to find some dirt to justify your vote. I don't expect you ever to admit that is what you did, because doing so would just make you look horrible. So if you want to attack the argument, try showing how you weren't bandwagoning and that your support evidence is hard undeniable scum tells instead of just slinging some more mud around. IIRC, you're supposed some kind of accomplished mafia player right? Try acting like one.
@KoD, there won't be a deadline unless the game starts dying. This is not an excuse for you to do nothing until such a time though. Quit playing with your pokeballs and focus on the commitments you've already made.
Starting to become Anti-TS, but he never did state that TS was Anti-town, before this like he said he did.
You are purposely misreading me because you've gotten into trouble in this argument. Why don't you put your ego aside for just one moment and try to scum hunt. It's YOU who have a burden of proof for YOUR assumptions about the game state not I. I can bust out some intro to logic stuff if you are that hard-headed but I would assume you could understand these very basic concepts. No one is mudslinging and it's really curious that you don't question KoD for backing you up WITHOUT READING WHAT YOU WROTE. Now you are trying to defend Kosa tooth and nail, are you just the bodyguard for the other site's mafia players?
Because what you are saying has no basis in logic.
Am I? What I've done is pointed out that you were bandwagoning on Kosa with a very weak argument. The points you brought up were highly interpretable from either a town or scum perspective. You mention one that, in any other circumstance, you'd consider a null tell. All points are thrown out to put kosa in a bad light though. Textbook mudslinging. After that I charged you with actually coming back with a hard case on Kosa, as the burden of proof falls on you there, by your own logic.
You come back with a bunch of side stepping and slanderous posts though, while making zero effort to actually case Kosa. Let's example. There was the post of mine you quoted and simply called scummy with no explanation given. You caveat with "if you don't understand let me know". SC let you know. You never came back on the matter. When I brought the matter up again instead of addressing it you side step by saying my logic doesn't flow because the burden of proof is on me to prove that you're mudslinging. When I then point out that not only is burden of proof not a factor in logic validity, but you are just as equally bound by your own assertions you then switch to my ego is in the way and I'm not scum hunting.
So yeah, keep telling me that you aren't mudslinging. I'll believe you eventually. KoD will probably be world Pokemon master by then and fable will have deprogrammed the entire Borg collective, but it'll happen one day, because if you say it enough it has to be true.
Also I would point out that I would point out that I've already addressed KoD as clearing playing mind games with the posts you mention, but given all the other things that seem to be slipping by you in the thread I doubt you'd catch that either...
You are purposely misreading me because you've gotten into trouble in this argument. Why don't you put your ego aside for just one moment and try to scum hunt. It's YOU who have a burden of proof for YOUR assumptions about the game state not I. I can bust out some intro to logic stuff if you are that hard-headed but I would assume you could understand these very basic concepts. No one is mudslinging and it's really curious that you don't question KoD for backing you up WITHOUT READING WHAT YOU WROTE. Now you are trying to defend Kosa tooth and nail, are you just the bodyguard for the other site's mafia players?
Because what you are saying has no basis in logic.
Am I? What I've done is pointed out that you were bandwagoning on Kosa with a very weak argument. The points you brought up were highly interpretable from either a town or scum perspective. You mention one that, in any other circumstance, you'd consider a null tell. All points are thrown out to put kosa in a bad light though. Textbook mudslinging. After that I charged you with actually coming back with a hard case on Kosa, as the burden of proof falls on you there, by your own logic.
You come back with a bunch of side stepping and slanderous posts though, while making zero effort to actually case Kosa. Let's example. There was the post of mine you quoted and simply called scummy with no explanation given. You caveat with "if you don't understand let me know". SC let you know. You never came back on the matter. When I brought the matter up again instead of addressing it you side step by saying my logic doesn't flow because the burden of proof is on me to prove that you're mudslinging. When I then point out that not only is burden of proof not a factor in logic validity, but you are just as equally bound by your own assertions you then switch to my ego is in the way and I'm not scum hunting.
So yeah, keep telling me that you aren't mudslinging. I'll believe you eventually. KoD will probably be world Pokemon master by then and fable will have deprogrammed the entire Borg collective, but it'll happen one day, because if you say it enough it has to be true.
Also I would point out that I would point out that I've already addressed KoD as clearing playing mind games with the posts you mention, but given all the other things that seem to be slipping by you in the thread I doubt you'd catch that either...
Sure it was bandwangoning, but it still was "With a town mindset as he first established in his first few posts"
And that was Day 1.
So he never did say that TS was anti-town and did say multiple times that he had a Town Mindset.
I'm currently around and will be for probably a few hours (playing games and readings posts here). Currently I will be reading posts I didn't address prior to my post in #1479. As always if there is something you want me to look at, please @ my name in bold color so I see it.
Accidently hit post on the one above this.
@KoD-If you have a question on any of these folks let me know.
I feel pretty good above Shock's recent activity. Doesn't seem forced. He could have just sat back till the end of the day.
First notice the Tom reference that he then fails to mention in his next post.
Then go back and Iso the rest of the posts. He always refers to TS as probably town, not scum. He says that I am scum for jumping on the Kosa wagon, but that TS is not. His own words. So IDK what he thinks happened day 1 but it isn't what he claimed.
Also and this is just the final nail for me. He never once mentioned Dota day 1. Ever, but now he is scum because other people said he was scum?
Almost all of his scum players are just people that others have suspected as scum and with me it's just because I was arguing with him same as MR. That's it he really has just existed in this game. Arguing with people about things that really don't matter. He's almost at lurker status to me, with three more posts than necarg and still less posts than the mods. I really feel that he has made the appearance of being in this game but actually has produced nothing with any substance.
Unvote Vote H_T
I'll do more people later a lot more posts to read. With the rest of the play base
Since I got misquoted by silver who is accusing me of misquoting others.
I'm currently around and will be for probably a few hours (playing games and readings posts here). Currently I will be reading posts I didn't address prior to my post in #1479. As always if there is something you want me to look at, please @ my name in bold color so I see it.
Accidently hit post on the one above this.
@KoD-If you have a question on any of these folks let me know.
I feel pretty good above Shock's recent activity. Doesn't seem forced. He could have just sat back till the end of the day.
Oh, Crystal gets to be extremely frustrated with someone now. Perhaps he can see how it feels? I actually thought playing with you was a nice experience in Goldeneye and I'm at a loss how you can get this nasty. You justify your own angered frustration, but can't see that feeling in others?
The main point is that you think I'm town. Your words. In you last post^^^^^^ but you want to lynch me because you are too frustrated to deal with yourself.
You have misrepped the case against HT over and over again.
You would replace out because you can't deal with your emotions? How about talking to me like a human being? You really offended me.
I'm currently around and will be for probably a few hours (playing games and readings posts here). Currently I will be reading posts I didn't address prior to my post in #1479. As always if there is something you want me to look at, please @ my name in bold color so I see it.
Accidently hit post on the one above this.
@KoD-If you have a question on any of these folks let me know.
I feel pretty good above Shock's recent activity. Doesn't seem forced. He could have just sat back till the end of the day.
Can you give a full T/S list?
Yeah, but let me get away for a bit and cool off. I don't want to taint it with frustrated feelings.
While I'm doing that, what do you think about Crystal saying I'm up to 70% town read? Is that strange for him to try to lynch someone that hard if they are such a high town read?
Definition 3: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result.
For example, the normal result for the sequence of events where someone accuses another of using bad logic is that the accuser is capable of using good logic themselves. When they have not demonstrated that, it is ironic.
Given that half your points on TS seem to apply to silver instead, fable, he might have a point that you aren't paying close enough attention. At least that's where the witch hunting comments seem to lead to me, as TS was talking about hypothetical witch hunting and silver was the one that said he wasn't witch hunting him in the specific. I think both sides of that are being a bit poorly misrepresented as silver was never indicating additional shade be thrown to better players, rather not cutting them extra slack. Kind of opposite sides of the same coin. It seems to me that those involved in this are only looking at one side. Somebody says don't give them a pass. The other side looks at that as throw extra shade on them and vice versa. In reality though playing them straight up means no passes and no extra shade and saying one isn't indicative of the other.
Pro town TS.
I don't think so...? He's just saying we're both right, not giving a read on either of us.
Okay. So I'm not going to post by post lime a lot of people are seeming to do. As my regulars know most of my posting lately has been phone posting and doing that is a hassle. I've let people run their course a bit so I'm going to give my initial reads here and then continue with my guerilla style posting.
KoD - KoD is being a blend of his usual argumentative self and what I can only label as playing dumb. Typically he's a logic driven player who can't admit he was wrong. Half of this can be seen by the random argument and that would be the can't admit he was wrong part. Assuming unstated reasons simply do not exist and people are randomly moving through the game is about as far from logical as one can get, hence the playing dumb part. If I had to guess he chose the opposite path that I did in this alien environment of splashing around, making waves, and trying to read the displacement. This is a manner similar to how I see Fable act in games, which is where I'd probably attribute people comparing the two. Null lean for now, based on prior experience with both townKoD and scumKoD.
Chris - Still don't agree with the town clear on Shock, especially given that it's coming out that his actions are more role related than behavioral, but I understand the theory Chris was using. Same goes for his interactions with KoD. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but I understand his reasons and where he's coming from. Currently leaning town.
Cyth - I find the cat persona a bit difficult to get a handle on. But I'm starting to pattern the nuances. Having used roles that essentially blocked players from talking before without actually being silent roles, I can understand the difficulty in having to convey yourself without words. Currently a null lean.
TS - I kinda don't like this guy's holy-er than thou posting mentality with all his talk of player level and what have you. Given Chris made a similar comment about hardware though, I take it you guys put a lot of stock in your track records. Personally I find that dumb, but I am a Johnny not a Spike. Null lean.
Fable - I don't have much experience with this guy. Only one completed game shared so far. As I said under KoD, he seemed to be trying to read the displacement as well, but unlike KoD he simmered down when he started taking heat. I don't like that. Slight scum lean.
Shock - As I understand it Shock is more of a regular here. Or was? I'd consider him a P/T player in NGA and I've said more than once over there that I just read him as scum like all the time. This game isn't an exception with his relative flying under the radarness. Slight scum read. I will caveat that if he is a little more prominent here and people (read as a majority) seem to town read him I'll probably attribute this read to bias since I've literally scum read him in every single game we've played together.
Kosa - I like Kosa's analysis so far. Not necessarily all the conclusions but the general nature of the actions. A question here, unrelated to reads, when you say BusyStuff that's essentially saying a post ja fluff/filler ja? Slight town read.
Necar - I'm not sure if he's trying to push some buttons or is just generally misreading situations. He's being thrown down as bandwagon Inga because of his vote on fable, but in the same post he tried to say KoD was using an LaL stand. So I'm currently leaning g to the latter? Anybody with more experience got some insight on if he does this on the regular?
Nobody else has really stood out for me as a prominent player yet. Killjoy, wasabi, and JD I recall posting but haven't formed anything on them yet. There are a few others that I'll have to go dig into more because I seriously don't remember posts from (like DoT but given their last post I'm willing to give them some time).
@TS, that blurb was commentary on basically how you present yourself and not necessarily your game play. I made the Johnny-Spike correlation because I don't believe we should all be of one mind but the difference in our mentalities will likely result in me being a bit stand offish with you because of it. Rather than wait until we actually do clash, I figured I'd be forth coming in my perspective. If that makes sense to you.
@MR, you weren't a stand out player when I did my reads post in terms of prominence. While you were one of the more active thread participants I didn't feel you were a driving force in any campaign yet. You definitely changed that with your kosa assessment. I will, however, disagree with your conclusion (but not your premise). My experience with stream of consciousness posters is that they literally do just dump their thoughts onto the thread like you're saying of kosa, but they use that almost as a journal of thoughts. They can go back, review all their posts in sequence to get a refresher on where their head was at certain points in the game, and then start connecting dots and digging further into areas they want to revisit fully. I don't particularly find this method of play scummy.
@Rhand, um...that was a KoD joke. Get it? But seriously null probably isn't really a lean (it'd be more of a straight up type of position) but when I talk reads I tend to use that terminology regardless of if I'm talking scum, town, or null.
In not specifically addressed matters, my current focus is what DoT will be bringing to the table.
@Rhand, I was referring to the OMGUS being weaker if kosa's accusation on TS ended up being true. Looking back that was an ambiguous modifier since I mentioned looking back on TS's posts in there.
On the matter as a whole, kosa is right, not right. At least to me. TS was clearly wagoning hard on Mind's post but it feels less scum murder wagon to me. More like TS had the mind set, "I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing. Taking into account that TS goes back to follow up not only on the subject that rhand brought up when he voted but a post killjoy made before the fact, and I'm pretty sure TS didn't see rhand's vote before making his own, indicating the pile on was likely coincidental. This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post. DV's vote seems like the most suspicious on the Kosa wagon, given that kosa didn't make a blatant OMGUS, and ended up being a bit justified. Given how I assessed TS's initial post, I do not feel like DV's vote was to swing pressure off of TS, but if anything is a murderous intent bandwagon vote.
vote: D_V
TS is not scum more a town mentality.
Maybe I'm just so tilted that I want you to be wrong, I guess.
@Reaver, why would I not post about a vote I said I was going to take a closer look at? You seem to be of the mindset that if you aren't town clearing somebody or trying to burn somebody at the stake you should be keeping your trap shut. I don't see how that is a helpful method of playing for town at all. (And that is how you actually throw shade)
I mentioned KJ's post because it was the factor that disconnected TS's vote from Rhand's for me. Given that Kosa had connected them, it seemed like a prudent thing to mention on why I was disconnecting them. I then analyzed the vote. Again, given its the crux of what I'm analyzing not mentioning doesn't seem prudent.
The TS and DV situations are different from the start. With TS I analyzed what Kosa was leveling at him and then presented my opinion of the situation. If you took out the first half, you'd have something more closely resembling the DV situation, as I'd merely be presenting a read rather than analysis of somebody else's read in addition to my own.
If you read the one Shock posted here for KoD/Fable, I'm 15377 there. Commonly referred to as numbers.
@DV, so what you're saying is you OMGUS'd on TS's behalf? Seems a bit more than hypocritical. Unless you're not saying that your reason is irrelevant?
Still viewing TS as town and me as scummy.
It just says that the first half of the previous post was about TS and the second half was about you; he thought you were scummier so you got his vote.
@TS, as I covered in 323 kosa isn't off base in his accusation against you even if he is off base in the specifics of it. You very clearly bandwagoned and then went back to find some dirt to justify your vote. I don't expect you ever to admit that is what you did, because doing so would just make you look horrible. So if you want to attack the argument, try showing how you weren't bandwagoning and that your support evidence is hard undeniable scum tells instead of just slinging some more mud around. IIRC, you're supposed some kind of accomplished mafia player right? Try acting like one.
@KoD, there won't be a deadline unless the game starts dying. This is not an excuse for you to do nothing until such a time though. Quit playing with your pokeballs and focus on the commitments you've already made.
Starting to become Anti-TS, but he never did state that TS was Anti-town, before this like he said he did.
Even if I'm so tilted I'm reading it wrong, he certainly didn't think TS was town all of D1 like you said.
You are purposely misreading me because you've gotten into trouble in this argument. Why don't you put your ego aside for just one moment and try to scum hunt. It's YOU who have a burden of proof for YOUR assumptions about the game state not I. I can bust out some intro to logic stuff if you are that hard-headed but I would assume you could understand these very basic concepts. No one is mudslinging and it's really curious that you don't question KoD for backing you up WITHOUT READING WHAT YOU WROTE. Now you are trying to defend Kosa tooth and nail, are you just the bodyguard for the other site's mafia players?
Because what you are saying has no basis in logic.
Am I? What I've done is pointed out that you were bandwagoning on Kosa with a very weak argument. The points you brought up were highly interpretable from either a town or scum perspective. You mention one that, in any other circumstance, you'd consider a null tell. All points are thrown out to put kosa in a bad light though. Textbook mudslinging. After that I charged you with actually coming back with a hard case on Kosa, as the burden of proof falls on you there, by your own logic.
You come back with a bunch of side stepping and slanderous posts though, while making zero effort to actually case Kosa. Let's example. There was the post of mine you quoted and simply called scummy with no explanation given. You caveat with "if you don't understand let me know". SC let you know. You never came back on the matter. When I brought the matter up again instead of addressing it you side step by saying my logic doesn't flow because the burden of proof is on me to prove that you're mudslinging. When I then point out that not only is burden of proof not a factor in logic validity, but you are just as equally bound by your own assertions you then switch to my ego is in the way and I'm not scum hunting.
So yeah, keep telling me that you aren't mudslinging. I'll believe you eventually. KoD will probably be world Pokemon master by then and fable will have deprogrammed the entire Borg collective, but it'll happen one day, because if you say it enough it has to be true.
Also I would point out that I would point out that I've already addressed KoD as clearing playing mind games with the posts you mention, but given all the other things that seem to be slipping by you in the thread I doubt you'd catch that either...
Sure it was bandwangoning, but it still was "With a town mindset as he first established in his first few posts"
No, in that post where H_T was talking about TS bandwagoning, he was saying that TS thought Mindreaver was town so TS could sheep him onto the Kosa wagon, and that it wasn't an alignment indicative action for TS.
And that was Day 1.
So he never did say that TS was anti-town and did say multiple times that he had a Town Mindset.
Do I just suck at reading Comprehension?
Or I'm so tilted I'm misreading it, I guess. I'm dropping it now, mostly because I don't care that much anymore. Not trying to make enemies here, I just seriously don't get what you're saying and it seems like you're doing it intentionally. Maybe not, though, since you posted the quotes.
What I said was, that he viewed him as pro-town, word for word that's what I said.
If the person isn't Anti-town then they are pro-town, there is virtually nothing else in this game.
He reversed this where he said "I suspected TS day one".
He didn't he claimed that TS "Was in a town mentality". It is a large difference. I'm not wrong. And you need to slow the **** down, I don't think you are scum, but I didn't like about this and I'm not wrong, you claimed to have read these posts too, and yet you interpreted them as him reading him as scum?
You can be offended by TS, but he has a point. Just take a step back, but when you say crap like "I'm reading you as town but, I'm still going to lynch you." Calm down, play to win it is a game.
Oh, Crystal gets to be extremely frustrated with someone now. Perhaps he can see how it feels? I actually thought playing with you was a nice experience in Goldeneye and I'm at a loss how you can get this nasty. You justify your own angered frustration, but can't see that feeling in others?
The main point is that you think I'm town. Your words. In you last post^^^^^^ but you want to lynch me because you are too frustrated to deal with yourself.
You have misrepped the case against HT over and over again.
You would replace out because you can't deal with your emotions? How about talking to me like a human being? You really offended me.
I offended you? Whatever I did, it wasn't try to shame someone out of an honest read by threatening them with bad behavior in future games.
I got nasty because you misrepresented your actions to me. You claimed you already answered my questions and got nasty when I asked you to answer them again. Well, it shouldn't be too hard to find both posts then TS.
If you can find both posts where you answered my questions, I'll unvote you and issue an apology. I know you can't, because they don't exist. There's only the one where you accuse me of misrepping you for saying you didn't answer the questions that you, you know, didn't answer.
As for justifying my own frustration but not yours, well, you can't even sit there and say people were going after you like you went after me. But I'm just going to leave it there before I get warned for flaming or some *****. Hell, I probably will anyway for that last post I made to you.
And yes, I would replace out because I can't handle my emotions. I'm not going to make the other players sit through this drivel for the rest of the game. It isn't fair to them.
Starting from Mind's post #1372 as that is where it looks like I left off with addressing posts.
To start, @Mind, concerning this from you:
" Because no, it isn't. Not on it's own. If all you are trying to do, is figure out is assessing the game state, you won't be adding any new information. You have to take that information, and ask questions, check up on facts, etc. It's that second piece that I am missing from you. I'm very frustrated with both you and KoD for this."
You and I are going to have a hard time agreeing. First, figuring out the game state takes on a lot of forms. Case in point, as I've argued, how Half is playing does help. He looks at what people say, assesses it with his own opinions which are put out there for others to read. People then react to it. Etc etc. That helps advance the game state. It helps add "new information" (if by information you mean stances and opinions players have about other things going on). Simply put, refer back to Half getting involved with the Kosa situation. He took information being presented (stances displayed by Kosa and TS and whoever else was involved in that) and made his own observations while checking up on the situation to see if it was being portrayed as stated by the involved parties (the initial stuff against Kosa was upfront, but Kosa accusation of TS(?) OMGUSing him was something that got checked out).
Point being, Half very much "took information, asked qusetions, and checked up on facts, etc." Likewise, I have also made efforts with taking information and giving my opinions on it as well as fact checking. I don't believe I've asked a lot of questions compared to the rest (though there are a few instances where I do pose a question or do like I did towards DV when arguing with him and he asked me about my idea for the scum team).
Pretty much Mind, you're either being blind or extremely narrow in your assessment of Half's actions or my own. You're frustrated frustrated with us over stuff we are doing, but don't recognize what we are doing as being a part of what you want out of players.
Concerning the first question: I addressed this question in my free flow post I made yesterday wrt to why DV/TS are doing what they are doing.
- "atta boy KoD posts". Heh. Half, how are you reading me at the moment? Yesterday I know you placed me in grey since I haven't rubbed you one way or the other, but with all that is going on today I'm curious if your view of me has shifted. Specifically, with all this defense I've been doing, do you think I'm trying to pocket you or get in your good graces?
Concerning TS yet again (since there are plenty of posts by him): It's simple for me. He professes to be town, but he's neglecting to fact check while he throws mud. It's not what town should be doing, but he continues to do it. So either he's scum flailing with the attention he has, or he's playing poorly as town (which, given his perspective, doesn't seem to be the case for him).
There's a lot that can be said, but one thing I did do is pull up his ISO so I could go back to where it all started. For me, it started pretty much at the start of the thread, but things really got started between him and Half when Half assessed the situation with Kosa and came out with a negative opinion concerning him and DV (and Half voted DV). From that point on you have arguments from him to Half and from Half back to him with DV being involved as well. I also got involved with my one post where I said I auto agree with Half and that I would go back and review the situation to see if that's how it stands. TS jumped on that post of mine too.
There's many points to be made. I think what I want to make is that TS has been swinging a lot against Half and myself in different ways. He scum reads Half, but he treats me like incompetent town (there's some posts where he even "bargains" with me too). He's not keen on actually fact checking like Half or myself do. Several times he's already misrepresented us (and a few others by the looks of it - Silver, right?). TS has shown an attitude that exhibits scummy behavior or at least behavior that doesn't make sense for town (especially one of the caliber he paints himself to be).
I'm sure there's more negative things I could say just from reading more of his posts. Instead, I've looked at some of the more recent posts. When I unvoted you (TS) last night, it was to allow you time to talk about Tom like you had mentioned doing when you talked about being at L-1. I know from last night, due to sticking around a bit longer, that you didn't immediately go into what you wanted to say about Tom. It looks like you don't have much to say concerning him, unless it is to argue with him. Do you actually have notes about his posts or no? Because if not, I'm going to replace my vote back on you.
No, TS. People do know why they're scum reading you. I certainly do; however, in your own world it seems that whatever reasons are brought up you consider to be crap. Also, what's with you and your WIFOM anyway? I know you talked about how your role's ability/effect has to be town more so than scum (which is a bad argument to make), but you also talk about how scum would love to have Half survive as long as he can if he is town and cite, "No activity. No motivation. Just hanging out." I mean, you can't know what the scum team is thinking, unless you're scum with them. For all we know, scum may dislike Half's focus this game and want him out of the way. Aside from that, Half has displayed activity more so than any of our lurkers have. I'm not even sure what you mean by "no motivation" since he's playing the game, unless this is a subtle insult at how you're the only one truly playing the game and "catching" scum while others are doing crap or less. As for just hanging out, that's what the lurkers are doing. At least Half is giving his opinions and analyzing stuff much to your chagrin.
@Mind: I just read your post #1377 where you answer TS's periphery question. I'm surprised since you make mention of Tom here. I'm surprised because of what was brought up by TS last night when I unvoted him (that he had thoughts he wanted to discuss on Tom). I believe I mentioned at some point that there is some sheeping of your posts by TS and DV, yes? I don't know atm how much focus TS had on Tom prior to you responding to his question, but atm (in the course of going over these posts) it is coming off as though TS is just trying to play off of you. Or pocket you or something. I'm sure you know what I mean here.
Let's see, I remember replying to Tom about the playstyle thing. Also, I find it funny that TS replies to one of Silver's questions, concerning why he is barning Mind, by saying he agrees with him. Contrast that with me agreeing with the points Half is making. The mentions of Fable is something I need to go back and look upon due to what I stated in my wall from 1479.
@TS: I see the bolded part from the Silver quote. As I recall it, that had to do with perspective since you continuously harp to him (everyone) that Half is scum. I don't see how that's gross of Silver to entertain such a scenario since that's what you actively want (is for people to think Half could be scum).
Hah, you call it a slip. At least this game isn't going the same way that MU championship match did with people crying bloody murder over slips.
Tom's switch to TS isn't lost on me (looking at a post where he says TS is being omgussy).
Poor attitude from TS concerning the way the game is being played.
End of page. Posting this and continuing from next page later (btw that post from mobile Silver made had that explanation I remember seeing concerning his "slip" TS. I don't see it as a slip, but I'm not as triggered as you.).
What I said was, that he viewed him as pro-town, word for word that's what I said.
If the person isn't Anti-town then they are pro-town, there is virtually nothing else in this game.
He reversed this where he said "I suspected TS day one".
He didn't he claimed that TS "Was in a town mentality". It is a large difference. I'm not wrong. And you need to slow the **** down, I don't think you are scum, but I didn't like about this and I'm not wrong, you claimed to have read these posts too, and yet you interpreted them as him reading him as scum?
You can be offended by TS, but he has a point. Just take a step back, but when you say crap like "I'm reading you as town but, I'm still going to lynch you." Calm down, play to win it is a game.
D_V, why are you lying? I can read what you wrote, dude. You bolded it for us.
First notice the Tom reference that he then fails to mention in his next post.
Then go back and Iso the rest of the posts. He always refers to TS as probably town, not scum. He says that I am scum for jumping on the Kosa wagon, but that TS is not. His own words. So IDK what he thinks happened day 1 but it isn't what he claimed.
Also and this is just the final nail for me. He never once mentioned Dota day 1. Ever, but now he is scum because other people said he was scum?
Almost all of his scum players are just people that others have suspected as scum and with me it's just because I was arguing with him same as MR. That's it he really has just existed in this game. Arguing with people about things that really don't matter. He's almost at lurker status to me, with three more posts than necarg and still less posts than the mods. I really feel that he has made the appearance of being in this game but actually has produced nothing with any substance.
Unvote Vote H_T
I'll do more people later a lot more posts to read. With the rest of the play base
That doesn't say "he viewed him as pro-town."
Besides, what H_T said is that TS's mindset was "Oh, Mindreaver is town and voting Kosa, so I'm going to sheep him." He didn't say TS had a town mindset, he said TS's mindset was that Mindreaver was town and that could happen if TS is town or scum.. Then he says that TS is probably scum for trying to bury Kosa in mud. He then goes on to say that your vote on Kosa is even worse than TS's because TS's vote could be town sheeping town, but you just want him dead. So the main idea is that TS might be scum for trying to bury Kosa but you're more likely than him for wanting Kosa dead.
D_V votes H_T while making up ridiculous scum reads on him. "He always says TS is town but now is scumreading him" is flagrantly false, for example.
The nature of what I said was not this.
Yes?
You are playing semantics. What I said H_T said was that it was probably town, which is what he did imply. Probably-town would be pro-town.
Like holy **** stop misrepresenting yourself and me.
On the matter as a whole, kosa is right, not right. At least to me. TS was clearly wagoning hard on Mind's post but it feels less scum murder wagon to me. More like TS had the mind set, "I'm pretty sure this mind guy is town, I'm going to follow his vote." which I could see either alignment doing. Taking into account that TS goes back to follow up not only on the subject that rhand brought up when he voted but a post killjoy made before the fact, and I'm pretty sure TS didn't see rhand's vote before making his own, indicating the pile on was likely coincidental. This doesn't take away from the very valid point kosa made though, in that if TS was specifically looking for something like Kosa's first post, why has it taken him so long to say anything about it? That post does reek of TS trying to bury Kosa in mud rather than just slinging a little. And is something he never came back on. My final assessment is that Kosa definitely has grounds to throw a vote back at TS without it being strictly OMGUS. TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post. DV's vote seems like the most suspicious on the Kosa wagon, given that kosa didn't make a blatant OMGUS, and ended up being a bit justified. Given how I assessed TS's initial post, I do not feel like DV's vote was to swing pressure off of TS, but if anything is a murderous intent bandwagon vote.
This post is my point it is a mess.
Its null read then scum read then what ever.
Private Mod Note
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Actually everyone how are you reading Wheat right now?
I've started over from scratch and Wheat seems really off to me.
Also, I can see reasons for a TS lynch, but I disagree on principle since half of the reason seems to be frustration at TS. This is a silly reason to lynch someone.
Has TS ever played a scum game before?
About the TS wagon, it never reached L-1... Like it was literally one page ago and he fails to know what his votecount is at? Come on.... I don't like the ultimatum he's advocating where he for sure wants HT lynched and him copped and a whole bunch of other bull*****. It reminded me of when I advocated an ultimatum in Basic #52 where I wanted another shot if I was lynched, and I voted myself into the mislynch. Turns out we were both town and mafioso got ever closer to win even though we started the game with a considerable lead (2 dead at the start of D2). So even if TS is just playing like garbage and literally doing nothing for his case except advocating a lynch off himself and onto HT, there's a chance he's wrong and just cost us valuable bodies. But that's a path I hate to even think of because a reality where TS isn't scum and is playing like this is just sad. He's consistently doing many scummy things that I wouldn't dream a towny doing.
@Silver: I read your Shock content, and I think Shock would be a potential avenue to look at if TS flips scum. But for now it's obvilynchTS.
@DoT: Still awaiting your responses to my questions. And more on TS/HT.
@Rhand/Necarg/Killjoy: Nearly a week since Day started, if TS is a mislynch you should probably get to hopping on it- right? Please talk about the two wagons.
The last replacement slot is Citricbase so it'll probably be him stepping in for Rhand. Looking forward to it.
its easy for me to see because we mostly agree, but throw that out and you can just see the steady progression thats completely absent from TS.
it could just be that he keeps catching up in chunks, but IMO that is wheat reading, thinking, and reevaluating.
theres just no agenda there. just reaction to stimuli.
Really the reason I'm leaning town and not solid on him is that his posts are mostly just reactions to current events and prodding other people for reactions, which should be fakeable for good scum players. I don't know Wheat's meta, so it's possible Tom's right and he's just town.
@Brinatoo:
What makes Shock more likely to flip scum if TS does? I didn't notice anything indicating they were aligned, myself.
He will be if he responds to my PM. Otherwise, I've put out an ad on NGA.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Btw I'm looking at TS/Fable interactions atm and boy what a goldmine, I'm surprised noone caught what I'm seeing. #146 is the most damning where he unvotes Fable for "being right on the KoD rules" like wtf? That was unrelated to the case/pressure he built on Fable, very suspect.
#236 is another potential language tell where he uses lingo like "blurting that out." Which can speak of emotion of like "wtf why would you bring that up, buddy?"
Still going through and will probably continue tomorrow but at #401. Such huge gaps after their early stuff.... It's like their gameplan was to distance themselves early on and then just forget about one another because they felt comfortable they had done so enough.
As for his early interactions with Fable, I can't say I'm surprised there's stuff there. I just haven't cased him (and probably won't). My "scum read" is based on how unhelpful he's been and his interactions with the H_T wagon.
Wheat is an exceptionally good player. There is a reason I kept him under my revive for Ace Attorney. This game he feels very weak, and almost unsure of himself, like where he deferred to Tom on the H_T thing.
Every time I feel like I understand where Wheat is this game he seems to take large turns from where I felt he was building up to.
I want to agree with everyone and say he is town, but something is sitting in my gut and I can't place my finger on it yet.
I want to jump on this one since I got the exact same feeling as Tom did - that you were neutral but not scum. I thought you were neutral because whenever the borg came up you were all like
---
DV: You're on the right track. Keep mulling it over.
I have never seen a group of players sit around and do nothing like this day two. My reads have been logical and well-presented throughout.
People jumped on me from the lie about the claim, that's all. After that it was just a snowball of opportunistic votes. As I said before this is the last game for me on this site. I can't stand the lurking and lack of effort put in. Despite that I've never lost to the scum and it's nice to go out undefeated as a Mafia player.
A pity that so few people like using critical thinking but I can't force you to.
Hurry up and get your mislynch over with. Very disappointed in many of you.
If you're town, sorry, but you're not helping. You're literally in the way of finding scum at this point because you're just pissing and moaning about how Mindreaver is the only one doing anything and we're being sooo mean to you when you're literally doing everything in your power to not be helpful.
I even invited you to dump your reads on the thread, again, and you chose to post a piss-poor rehash of your obviously biased case on me instead in an effort to convince everyone that I need to be lynched for defending Half_Time. It's not my fault, nor is it a scum tell on me, that you couldn't string two sentences together without literally making ***** up to get him lynched. As I showed in my analysis.
I'm... just done with you. I wish I had a dayvig because you would've been dead this morning when you pulled that bull***** about how it would've been fine if Mindreaver had voted you. And here you are pulling it again. I gave you plenty of opportunity to show you were town, and I got burned bridges and bad feelings for it.
Get lynched.
I don't see you doing much besides whine incessantly.
You have done NOTHING of the sort.
I found the scum. I can't make you get off your ass and lynch scum. That's life. The case is solid. HT hasn't done jack***** this game. You can taste your mistake with your mislynch. You are the one KILLING TOWN, not I.
Instead of actually pushing people who aren't doing ***** like HT to become more involved and actually scumhunt, or the f-ing band of lurkers, or Kosa. You wanna mislynch me because you can't control your emotions.
You don't deserve to win if you are town and your play has been borderline as scum.
There are reasons I never lose to scum despite always being aligned with different teammates Crystal. I'm good at keeping up pressure and getting strong reactions. You've decieded to blow a gasket and do the scum's work for them, or just be playing the super obvious scum role.
Either way, you've made it impossible for the game to be completed without your eventual lynch. Will town see it?
Time to taste your failures.
I have good cause to complain. The town is allowing a bad mislynch to occur on someone who has caught scum. I've made strong cases throughout and people got lazy and decided to pack it in today.
What would you have me do Wheat? Am I really supposed to go back and do a ton more work just so lazy town can STILL mislynch me? If people were trying to solve the game I'd be full of energy and helping POE the scum team with interaction and trying to get you guys to force the lurkers to participate. But after how I've been treated by Crys, and people just jumping on my wagon with no reasons?
I think catching 2-3 scum before the end of day two is pretty good. If you guys don't want to let me live long enough to find the last 1-2 then there's nothing I can do about that.
@Wheat-How are you expecting to win? You've done very little yourself. Look at your own ISO. Are you going to win with that kind of activity level? What's your plan to win. After my mislynch do you have information to gain?
And I can remember freaking out like this as town before...
At the same time have to note this game is within ballpark range post total of my first game here, Sesame Street mafia. 1.5 k post to its end, but only Day 2 here!
Wow.
Starting some notes on our lurkers just to get something going for when there replacements come in, or they come back.
Starting with the player with the lowest post count, and in no particular order following, here's my thoughts on Killjoy by order of post:
1) Opens with a request for more boxes for KoD to the mod for KoD's FoS opening. Maybe veiled in a joke, but some pressure is being applied here.
Agrees with Sir Chris, moderately, for clearing me, but doesn't agree with D_V clearing Sir Chris (flip town).
Also doesn't agree with Sir Chris calling people who think critically (and possibly to a lesser extend don't cast much suspicion) town. But asks for Sir Chris's theory. Not committing here, so possible sign of suspicion.
Replies to a longer post of Sir Chris's noting "scum don't like to make unnecessary enemies" and that he was already thinking that was what Sir Chris was thinking. It's subtle, but something tells me he thinks they are both town.
Reply to Necarg saying him thinking critically and picking fight doesn't necessarily make him town. (Clearing for the wrong reasons).
Agreeing with the madness of content on page 1 with D_V.
And ends with a request to see a game KoD has been in. If I remember right, this request was flatly denied by KoD.
2) Yeah. Request denied.
Notes my post restriction.
Now asking Fable for a link to one of KoD's games... If they shared a QT I don't think that would be asked in the open, but WIFOM at best.
Asking Yamato for his opinions... None were given before replace out.
Followed by a request for Fable's thoughts.
Now this is weird... A post of Mindreaver breaking down the thoughts of "Fable's rules of KoD" but because of this Killjoy asks "where was this in twinborn". I can't think of any context this makes sense.
Ends post with "Spot"ting Spot.
3) Reply to Mindreaver clarifying he thought D_V was serious, but did not agree with reasoning for clearing.
4) Catch up notice.
5) Another stating up for 24 hours...
6) Welcomes Rhand and Brinatoo, states Fable/KoD likely unaligned, Mind likely town, and asks what Mind wants to know.
7) Denies having a posting restriction, asking someone (post I'm looking at doesn't clarify) what kind of one someone though he had.
Also requests more info on KoD/Fable by way of games they were together in... Can add one more to the list on request.
8) Request for Silver's mafia experience.
9) Clarifies why he was asking the for Silver's experience stating 300+ posts in someone should look scummy to someone experienced, but Silver is noted as fine in his case.
10) Must have been after the post of KoD's that Silver afterwards called a town post. Says that is a lot more opinions than mafia normally have.
Then ends with a catch up notice.
11) Last post 3 Days ago saying falling way behind. But does have some content here.
KoD town, Fable scum, and notes KoD seemed town before Fable outed himself. In other words KoD wasn't trying to fake based on his earlier statements.
Thinks TS is silly for thinking his posting isn't alignment based...
And calls Cythare a possible townie for posting when he doesn't necessarily need to.
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Wrap-up: Main motivation seems clearing town and separating pairs, no apparent agenda besides this. Interest in posting restrictions, lack of voting, and no noted scum reads flag, even after his statement to Silver.
I'm not sure he's aligned with Fable, I think it's highly unlikely. Only way I could see it is if KoD and Killjoy are aligned. I don't think that's so.
Lean town.
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Will post these as I go and don't mind if someone suggests my next one.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
If you do turn out town I'll gain information, I'm certain.
Additionally, it's not all about activity level. It's about having the right activity.
In all fairness, I'd be willing to start day three with everyone on a clean slate and just work interaction analysis and catch them from point zero again. I'm well aware that some of us (including me) got bogged down by figuring out meta differences and trying to feel out the players. All of us calling each other bad over and over again. I'm curious to see if the mudslinging stops from HT.
But mostly I'd just know how salty the scum would be from not having this mislynch. That feeling alone is worth staying alive another day to hunt them down by following the trail of tears.
Could you take a look at Tomsloger for me?
You are getting pretty invested in this Tom.
Plan on doing anything this game besides hopping back and forth on wagons?
Why did you jump on the HT wagon when it was picking up speed? Was that just the best place to be at the time?
And how am I bargaining? Is there something wrong with me trying to rationalize why I should keep trying? I mean if I can't think of a reason to keep pushing then what's the point? I wouldn't mind turning the whole thing around and really tilting the scum team.
The scum chat would end up being about how to get me tomorrow and clever town could probably try to set up some traps to find inconsistencies. I don't mind being the bait.
Read the quote in my sig from Nachomamma. That quote applies to this game more than any other I've played.
Might take a while...
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
If you can't get it done today, be mindful of it tomorrow.
nice large town circle, willing to lynch everyone outside it.
if theres deep scum, we'll figure it out later. but it sure looks like we're lynching scum the first two days, which is just a great start.
if you somehow just forgot how to be townie and surprise us all with a blue flip, ill even read KoD's posts finally.
but it seems almost impossible that he is scum with halftime, who we are probably lynching at some point regardless of your flip unless something crazy happens.
@MR, I still wasn't sure what you meant by consequences but reading back on big poppa Tom I think it clicked, you're basically asking me to chain read, ja? Which I kinda covered in your if they flip question, but only the scum side since that's the premise you put forward. But also in the other part where I said my reads are fairly independent of each other. I don't tether people together in my reads. I will look at interactions within my reads, but as I was saying before I also consider the bussing flip. With that said reads are naturally always in a state of flux so they may not be what they were today at the start of tomorrow (although I'd wager that would depend on a complete upheaval of how I see the game state. Our last completed game on NGA is a good example of that (http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15033). Two of my top three suspects flipped town in the same lynch-following night.) Frankly put, I don't see the point in trying to play fifteen steps ahead of yourself. Seems like a good way to step into a pothole.
Got one tab set on your opening posts Tom, bear wave hello and opening catch up opinions. And a self imposed post restriction? Man...
Either way late here (10 PM... Or 1 PM where tapping lives, found that funny earlier today) and got to get my sleep in. Hopefully will have something going soon.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
I did a few breadcrumbs, but this is pretty spot on.
Half_Time Wagon:
Cythare
Shockwave
Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder Leaves for Brinatoo
TS
Me
TS Leaves for Killjoy
D_V
Tom
Cythare Leaves
Tom Leaves for TS
TS
Of that, there is a vote, toward the end of the wagon, that struck me as opportunistic, and also was opportunistic leaving this wagon for something better. Which was Tom.
Thoughts here?
Yeah the timezone thing can be a bit of a hassle. I'm usually posting around the beginning or the tailend of the NA activity slot.
Not as tilted as I will be if you dodge the noose. Get bent. You don't get to post the ***** you posted to me and then pretend it never happened. You are so ******* wrongheaded it isn't even funny. I didn't even vote you after you went down in a fireball of misreps trying to bury me in mud. I didn't vote you until you insulted me by claiming I'm not trying to solve the game. Let me spell it out for you:
I was the last one on your wagon.
Read that twice to yourself. Slowly.
Now think about what I did, and why I did it.
Actually, I'll tell you what I did. I'll narrate my play for you, ok?
Tom still wants to lynch me, but I think he's prooobably town? You back me up about claiming. Sweet.
TS says he's rereading and he's making a biiig post. Great. I remember how awesome his big posts were in GoldenEye, and figure he'll find something.
H_T makes a post about not knowing what the balls mean. Since I discarded Brinatoo's color index because it was redundant with actual read colors, I can't
help him. He's still suspicious of you, but he was that way most of D1 so whatever.
Mindreaver starts in on H_T because he's suspicious of you. I let him handle himself because I want to see his response.
Charades with Cythare.
Kosa claims. See? I wasn't the Borg after all, and the Borg is Town [redacted] anyway, not a cult. But that's later.
You... naked vote me with no explanation besides "He's tied to Fable". ??? What the **** man, I thought we were cool.
Brinatoo asks you about the alcohol scene.
Half_Time posts his response to Mindreaver. It's pretty much what I would have expected.
Mindreaver continues to press the point on H_T with what seems like a lot of conf bias and OMGUS. I figure this is a playstyle/site meta clash and I'll let them work it out.
Cythare naked votes Half_Time, presumably for Mindreaver's "case," followed by Shockwave and Wheat_Grinder. I read Cythare as either reaction fishing or pressure voting, and Shockwave as very odd. I'm not sure what to make of Wheat's vote.
Then you also go, "wow, look at Mindreaver's points on H_T. We caught scum! Also, he's waiting for my big post to talk about me so that's scummy." And I'm left over here going ?????? Mindreaver's case is not anywhere near a slam dunk but three of my townreads and a null have basically /barned him onto a wagon that even he didn't think was good enough to vote on at the time without adding anything substantial. Also, you false claim.
Tom says something about scum!Tapping being a possibility.
Kosa asks you to explain your read on me and KJ (like, really). And says you're ignoring requests (which you aren't, to my knowledge, to be fair).
Wheat starts a wagon on Shockwave for a gross post. D_V asks what's gross about it (I'm not sure either) but never gets an answer (sadface).
KoD finally talks about the stuff that happened in D1. Then he asks Shockwave about the other GE Humans. I'm basically just watching with interest at the moment. Then he votes you and says you're lying about being Spock.
I respond to Tom's post about scum!you and say I'm a little suspicious because you're not making reads or cases, you're just /barning other people.
KoD says he name-copped you last Night, which draws Kosa and Shockwave onto your wagon. Kosa reads with mild conviction. Shock is just voting whoever it's popular to scum read at the moment.
You call Kosa a "hypocrite" (really?) and say that other people are just hanging out waiting for you to post something. Which... I understand H_T wanting to wait for your post to talk about you because it might give him better insight into your alignment. Plus he doesn't want to taint your reread with his observations. Kosa hasn't posted much toDay, but he had content D1 so it's not like he's DoTA or Necarg pushing you to post something. And he didn't even ask for your big post, just an explanation on me and KJ.
KoD says he was waiting for you, too.
You make a big dramatic post saying people are scum reading you for being on the other side of the world (which, they aren't) and you haven't had time. I figure you're taking this too personally so I try to back you down and convince you to finish your post.
You post that travesty of a case against me, which amounts to "he defended Fable once and Fable told D_V to answer his question once."
KoD says it's scummy to volunteer information about your role and get caught lying. I don't agree, town lies for various reasons, but I'm going to see what shakes out.
You say your role is townie because it's a mod reveal, then start complaining about how no one is doing anything. Obviously you're taking it personally, so I leave it alone.
You come back from your break and say "Oh look, no one did anything." And my first thought is "You want everyone else to give you special treatment because you're in China, but you can't bother to check the time in the states to realize it's after four in the morning here."
Your KJ case isn't great, either, but I'll reiterate why when I get to my response to that.
You volunteer more information about your role, claiming the Mods told you it was fine and that you were trying to eat a NK. Ok, fine.
I respond to your case with a high effort post containing links, quotes, and motivations. I get absolutely nothing back from you.
H_T makes another post. I'm mostly skipping these at this point, both because I already made a huge post about them and because I wasn't following them closely.
You ask Tom for his thoughts on your two "cases."
I defend you for lying, saying you lied in GoldenEye as town.
Tom deflects from your KJ case and says I don't seem to have teammates.
You beg me to go through interactions with dead players. Like, obviously, what do you think I've been doing? Pretty sure a lot of us have been doing it, we're just waiting for your post because we don't want to taint the results and discussion after. You already promised a post, no one else did.
I tell you your cases are full of conf biasing.
You say your read on me developed after your reread. Which doesn't refute conf biasing... it affirms it. Conf biasing is when you go back with the specific intent of finding scummy (or townie!) interactions and posts. If you're only looking for one or the other, you'll miss the things that made you think the person was the other alignment in the first place. Your post ends with "you guys(not literally you) want to spend all of day two chasing the guy that's actually playing to win?"
My response is to the last question is "no, I want to analyze Fable's wagon." And you blow up on me because you assume I'm answering a different question. Whatever. Obviously you're not paying attention at this point, because "not looking at other players" obviously doesn't mesh with "analyze Fable's wagon."
The I actually do the wagon analysis, but the only people who mention it later are Mindreaver, Tom, and Cythare. In fact, you quote the whole post just to comment on my one line to you and completely ignore the analysis I did. oh, and you yell at me because you thought you asked me about your KJ case... but you asked Tom.
Obviously I point this out, and you say "well, just look at it when you get a chance." Ok. My response to your KJ post is greeted with complete silence, probably because I concluded KJ was not aligned with Fable.
Wheat votes you, for what I'm reading as trying to get everyone else to post their reads when you've already promised to post yours and complaining about being under pressure.
We figure out Fable's lynch was illegal. Yay. Heh. Again.
I post a defense of Half_Time because I think mind has it wrong... Like I've thought since the beginning. And since everyone else /barned his read, if he's wrong the rest of you are too.
Mindreaver responds to my H_T defense. I'm not sure I ever actually replied to this, but I think my huge analysis serves in its stead.
Oh, never mind, I totally responded to that. At this point I'm thinking that everyone is talking past each other and this is just a meta/playstyle clash. There's quite a bit of confbiasing and misrepping on both sides, and I'm sure the scum team is actually laughing at us in the scum chat right now.
D_V thinks my response to Mind is chainsawing for H_T.... when it pretty clearly isn't.
You say you're waiting for a "real case against you." The "case" against you is basically that you're lying and sheeping other people's reads. Which is not only scummy in a vacuum but against your meta. I'm still not on your wagon even though my case is strongest. Because I still think you might be town.
Your response to me correction of your dramatic self-victimizing post is to ask why people aren't hunting for scum and why they're naked voting you. Which is yet another gross misrepresentation of you wagon. KoD's vote is easily justified, and so is Wheat's. Shockwave is easily the worst vote on you, because he's essentially the only bad one. Then you try to buddy up to me. "I get the feeling I might be wrong about you." What the hell is that?
Shockwave decides you're a neutral and unvotes you, and you push him to find scum.
Anyway, I tell you the bad news about your wagon, and get told the scum are lurking or kicking back on your wagon. Even though I just said they're probably not on your wagon. Whatever.
I case Necarg where my vote has been most of the day, and decide he's probably not aligned with Fable.
You claim Kosa said he liked you and that you were town in his first few mentions... Ok, but after that when you kept badgering him he flipped his read on you. Which you conveniently ignore to throw shade.
You vote Killjoy for being not present. You still have not posted about your pages of notes and are under no pressure to do so.
More charades with Cythare.
Scum have day chat. Probably. Fable was trying to use the Borg as a distraction for town. The Doctor might be a fake.
You ask me for reads on the lurkers, which I supply. Again. And get ignored. Again. Except by Cythare.
I ask DoTA for his reaction to Fable's wagon... and his response is basically "there's probably scum on that." No *****.
Then the latinum stuff where I slipped my role.
Brinatoo complains that I missed his vote on you and reasons. Sorry Brin. Still think he's town for this.
DoTA cases me or something. Eminently forgettable since it's the same stuff you already said. I say as much, and explain latinum roles.
Shockwave makes a weird post about latinum and how he knows about it from flavor.
KoD says I'm scummy for something I didn't mean that way. Seems to be a lot of that going around...
You get mad at KoD for casing you and not anyone else.
D_V says H_T is scummy because he think Mindreaver is scummy for not replying to him. Then you barn him. This is not a real scum tell. Come on guys.
KoD makes a post about Fable. You give him an "atta boy, do it again."
D_V votes H_T while making up ridiculous scum reads on him. "He always says TS is town but now is scumreading him" is flagrantly false, for example.
You say you "kept the pressure on Fable," like you're pulling to get credit for it, when Fable lynched himself and it had nothing to do with you. If anything, it was Wheat.
Next big thing is you saying H_T is either scum trying to mediate (that's not a scum tell) or arrogant town. Then you throw out the idea of him ebing town because he's not applying any pressure (what's he doing with Mind then?) plus this nonsense:
The last sentence is pretty clearly trying to set me up for a scum read on the same grounds.
You ask for help with interaction analysis, and I post my Shockwave case... which goes completely ignored until I bring it up again.
Instead, you start back in on Half_Time, about something he said a while ago, and make big, long, insulting post that's a complete misrepresentation of what he's been saying.
D_V accuses KoD of not using good logic... but D_V can't even read past posts, apparently. The irony kills me. Plus this: Which is flagrantly wrong. You can look at what other people said about a person without looking at what that person said. It's a false equivalence.
I get an actual post about H_T's scum motive from Mind. Finally, someone says something that makes some sense, but he even seems to think H_T might be town still. He's just trying to put pressure on him to do something.
You say KoD's sentence (the one above) isn't logical, too. Obviously, you and D_V both forgot about nuance and are playing completely from the hip.
You say "D_V is using logic and KoD is blindly defending." Which is flagrantly false. D_V is blindly attacking and KoD is using logic. How do you even read the game and get this so backwards? Are you just that tunneled?
I make my big post. That's three ******* hours of quoting, analyzing, and typing, and formatting. A 23 ******* page word document.
At the end of my post I write this: "For the record, I like my vote where it is for now, but if I had to pick someone from this analysis for the lynch it'd be TS. Though D_V is probably gross in all the little posts I skipped, too, but **** adding those to the analysis. They're both reasonable votes to me."
Tom asks who is ok with lynching H_T. I say I would prefer a TS or D_V lynch to that.
D_V nitpicks one small thing I missed, then never mentions it again.
And I get this from you:
Then you try to say I think all three of you are scum (you Mind, D_V). Which is a flagrant misrepresentation. Not only that, you openly state that you would be railing on Necarg to get him mislynched. How do you know he's a mislynch TS?
My response: Which is basically pointing out your misrep and asking you some questions. In response, you merely state my questions have been answered. Seriously, what the ****? You made no posts between mine and this one. Go look. And you say you "don't remember" my points on Shockwave... you probably just never read them. And then you make this post: Which is basically #1 trying to make a null case on him, not responding to the points I made, and #2, the same as the case against Half_Time, but H_T deserves to get lynched for it. At this time, I'm assuming that you're misrepping and dodging intentionally because it looks suspicious as hell. So I post this: Notice the bold at the end. Because you come back with this steaming sack of crap: Then, you start throwing shade on CYTHARE for voting you while you're in the middle of a nuclear meltdown of misreps trying to bury me in mud.
Then, you know... At which point I get this: Seriously. What the **** man. You’re the one with conducting themselves badly. I’ve “burnt bridges” because I pointed out you were wrong and misrepping me? You’re going to carry this disagreement into future games? That’s just about the worst sportsmanship possible. You’re literally trying to make me back off by shaming me. Die in a fire.
On top of that stuff, over the last two pages you’ve essentially said that Mindreaver's vote would be more palatable than my suspicion and that I'm not scum hunting. Are you serious? You, D_V, and Mind have been practically tunneled on Half_Time all Day. And I'm not scum hunting just because I don't think H_T is scum? I've cased Necarg, all the lurkers, Shockwave, you (basically), and H_T. Plus I did Fable's wagon analysis. Get ******* bent.
Like, maybe if you actually went back and looked and then said, "You're right Silver, I was wrong, I didn't answer your questions, you've made a lot of cases, and I'm sorry but I was pretty tilted" or something. But you're so goddamn arrogant that you don't even think you did anything wrong! The possibility hasn't even entered you head that maybe the people you're arguing with are actually right. More's the pity, because I was looking forward to playing another game with you after GoldenEye.
I seriously, seriously hope you're scum, but even that won't excuse your behavior at this point. And yes, I want you dead for selfish reasons, but I'm so tilted at this point I don't care. You don't get to pull that ***** and then try to pretend it never happened.
@The rest of you: Sorry, again. I don't normally get this tilted. Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I need a break.
That's not what irony means. Look it up.
Pro town TS.
Pro-Town TS.
IDK neutral TS?
TS is not scum more a town mentality.
Still viewing TS as town and me as scummy.
Starting to become Anti-TS, but he never did state that TS was Anti-town, before this like he said he did.
Sure it was bandwangoning, but it still was "With a town mindset as he first established in his first few posts"
And that was Day 1.
So he never did say that TS was anti-town and did say multiple times that he had a Town Mindset.
Do I just suck at reading Comprehension?
Accidently hit post on the one above this.
@KoD-If you have a question on any of these folks let me know.
I feel pretty good above Shock's recent activity. Doesn't seem forced. He could have just sat back till the end of the day.
Since I got misquoted by silver who is accusing me of misquoting others.
Now that is ironic.
Can you give a full T/S list?
Oh, Crystal gets to be extremely frustrated with someone now. Perhaps he can see how it feels? I actually thought playing with you was a nice experience in Goldeneye and I'm at a loss how you can get this nasty. You justify your own angered frustration, but can't see that feeling in others?
The main point is that you think I'm town. Your words. In you last post^^^^^^ but you want to lynch me because you are too frustrated to deal with yourself.
You have misrepped the case against HT over and over again.
You would replace out because you can't deal with your emotions? How about talking to me like a human being? You really offended me.
Yeah, but let me get away for a bit and cool off. I don't want to taint it with frustrated feelings.
While I'm doing that, what do you think about Crystal saying I'm up to 70% town read? Is that strange for him to try to lynch someone that hard if they are such a high town read?
Definition 3: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result.
For example, the normal result for the sequence of events where someone accuses another of using bad logic is that the accuser is capable of using good logic themselves. When they have not demonstrated that, it is ironic. I don't think so...? He's just saying we're both right, not giving a read on either of us. He literally said "null lean." That's... not a read. Just an explanation.
Maybe I'm just so tilted that I want you to be wrong, I guess. It just says that the first half of the previous post was about TS and the second half was about you; he thought you were scummier so you got his vote. Even if I'm so tilted I'm reading it wrong, he certainly didn't think TS was town all of D1 like you said. No, in that post where H_T was talking about TS bandwagoning, he was saying that TS thought Mindreaver was town so TS could sheep him onto the Kosa wagon, and that it wasn't an alignment indicative action for TS.
Or I'm so tilted I'm misreading it, I guess. I'm dropping it now, mostly because I don't care that much anymore. Not trying to make enemies here, I just seriously don't get what you're saying and it seems like you're doing it intentionally. Maybe not, though, since you posted the quotes.
If the person isn't Anti-town then they are pro-town, there is virtually nothing else in this game.
He reversed this where he said "I suspected TS day one".
He didn't he claimed that TS "Was in a town mentality". It is a large difference. I'm not wrong. And you need to slow the **** down, I don't think you are scum, but I didn't like about this and I'm not wrong, you claimed to have read these posts too, and yet you interpreted them as him reading him as scum?
You can be offended by TS, but he has a point. Just take a step back, but when you say crap like "I'm reading you as town but, I'm still going to lynch you." Calm down, play to win it is a game.
I got nasty because you misrepresented your actions to me. You claimed you already answered my questions and got nasty when I asked you to answer them again. Well, it shouldn't be too hard to find both posts then TS.
If you can find both posts where you answered my questions, I'll unvote you and issue an apology. I know you can't, because they don't exist. There's only the one where you accuse me of misrepping you for saying you didn't answer the questions that you, you know, didn't answer.
As for justifying my own frustration but not yours, well, you can't even sit there and say people were going after you like you went after me. But I'm just going to leave it there before I get warned for flaming or some *****. Hell, I probably will anyway for that last post I made to you.
And yes, I would replace out because I can't handle my emotions. I'm not going to make the other players sit through this drivel for the rest of the game. It isn't fair to them.
To start, @Mind, concerning this from you:
" Because no, it isn't. Not on it's own. If all you are trying to do, is figure out is assessing the game state, you won't be adding any new information. You have to take that information, and ask questions, check up on facts, etc. It's that second piece that I am missing from you. I'm very frustrated with both you and KoD for this."
You and I are going to have a hard time agreeing. First, figuring out the game state takes on a lot of forms. Case in point, as I've argued, how Half is playing does help. He looks at what people say, assesses it with his own opinions which are put out there for others to read. People then react to it. Etc etc. That helps advance the game state. It helps add "new information" (if by information you mean stances and opinions players have about other things going on). Simply put, refer back to Half getting involved with the Kosa situation. He took information being presented (stances displayed by Kosa and TS and whoever else was involved in that) and made his own observations while checking up on the situation to see if it was being portrayed as stated by the involved parties (the initial stuff against Kosa was upfront, but Kosa accusation of TS(?) OMGUSing him was something that got checked out).
Point being, Half very much "took information, asked qusetions, and checked up on facts, etc." Likewise, I have also made efforts with taking information and giving my opinions on it as well as fact checking. I don't believe I've asked a lot of questions compared to the rest (though there are a few instances where I do pose a question or do like I did towards DV when arguing with him and he asked me about my idea for the scum team).
Pretty much Mind, you're either being blind or extremely narrow in your assessment of Half's actions or my own. You're frustrated frustrated with us over stuff we are doing, but don't recognize what we are doing as being a part of what you want out of players.
Concerning the first question: I addressed this question in my free flow post I made yesterday wrt to why DV/TS are doing what they are doing.
- "atta boy KoD posts". Heh. Half, how are you reading me at the moment? Yesterday I know you placed me in grey since I haven't rubbed you one way or the other, but with all that is going on today I'm curious if your view of me has shifted. Specifically, with all this defense I've been doing, do you think I'm trying to pocket you or get in your good graces?
Concerning TS yet again (since there are plenty of posts by him): It's simple for me. He professes to be town, but he's neglecting to fact check while he throws mud. It's not what town should be doing, but he continues to do it. So either he's scum flailing with the attention he has, or he's playing poorly as town (which, given his perspective, doesn't seem to be the case for him).
There's a lot that can be said, but one thing I did do is pull up his ISO so I could go back to where it all started. For me, it started pretty much at the start of the thread, but things really got started between him and Half when Half assessed the situation with Kosa and came out with a negative opinion concerning him and DV (and Half voted DV). From that point on you have arguments from him to Half and from Half back to him with DV being involved as well. I also got involved with my one post where I said I auto agree with Half and that I would go back and review the situation to see if that's how it stands. TS jumped on that post of mine too.
There's many points to be made. I think what I want to make is that TS has been swinging a lot against Half and myself in different ways. He scum reads Half, but he treats me like incompetent town (there's some posts where he even "bargains" with me too). He's not keen on actually fact checking like Half or myself do. Several times he's already misrepresented us (and a few others by the looks of it - Silver, right?). TS has shown an attitude that exhibits scummy behavior or at least behavior that doesn't make sense for town (especially one of the caliber he paints himself to be).
I'm sure there's more negative things I could say just from reading more of his posts. Instead, I've looked at some of the more recent posts. When I unvoted you (TS) last night, it was to allow you time to talk about Tom like you had mentioned doing when you talked about being at L-1. I know from last night, due to sticking around a bit longer, that you didn't immediately go into what you wanted to say about Tom. It looks like you don't have much to say concerning him, unless it is to argue with him. Do you actually have notes about his posts or no? Because if not, I'm going to replace my vote back on you.
No, TS. People do know why they're scum reading you. I certainly do; however, in your own world it seems that whatever reasons are brought up you consider to be crap. Also, what's with you and your WIFOM anyway? I know you talked about how your role's ability/effect has to be town more so than scum (which is a bad argument to make), but you also talk about how scum would love to have Half survive as long as he can if he is town and cite, "No activity. No motivation. Just hanging out." I mean, you can't know what the scum team is thinking, unless you're scum with them. For all we know, scum may dislike Half's focus this game and want him out of the way. Aside from that, Half has displayed activity more so than any of our lurkers have. I'm not even sure what you mean by "no motivation" since he's playing the game, unless this is a subtle insult at how you're the only one truly playing the game and "catching" scum while others are doing crap or less. As for just hanging out, that's what the lurkers are doing. At least Half is giving his opinions and analyzing stuff much to your chagrin.
@Mind: I just read your post #1377 where you answer TS's periphery question. I'm surprised since you make mention of Tom here. I'm surprised because of what was brought up by TS last night when I unvoted him (that he had thoughts he wanted to discuss on Tom). I believe I mentioned at some point that there is some sheeping of your posts by TS and DV, yes? I don't know atm how much focus TS had on Tom prior to you responding to his question, but atm (in the course of going over these posts) it is coming off as though TS is just trying to play off of you. Or pocket you or something. I'm sure you know what I mean here.
Let's see, I remember replying to Tom about the playstyle thing. Also, I find it funny that TS replies to one of Silver's questions, concerning why he is barning Mind, by saying he agrees with him. Contrast that with me agreeing with the points Half is making. The mentions of Fable is something I need to go back and look upon due to what I stated in my wall from 1479.
@TS: I see the bolded part from the Silver quote. As I recall it, that had to do with perspective since you continuously harp to him (everyone) that Half is scum. I don't see how that's gross of Silver to entertain such a scenario since that's what you actively want (is for people to think Half could be scum).
Hah, you call it a slip. At least this game isn't going the same way that MU championship match did with people crying bloody murder over slips.
Tom's switch to TS isn't lost on me (looking at a post where he says TS is being omgussy).
Poor attitude from TS concerning the way the game is being played.
End of page. Posting this and continuing from next page later (btw that post from mobile Silver made had that explanation I remember seeing concerning his "slip" TS. I don't see it as a slip, but I'm not as triggered as you.).
After that, I should be in better spirits.
Order of duty is to get a T/S list for D_V
Besides, what H_T said is that TS's mindset was "Oh, Mindreaver is town and voting Kosa, so I'm going to sheep him." He didn't say TS had a town mindset, he said TS's mindset was that Mindreaver was town and that could happen if TS is town or scum.. Then he says that TS is probably scum for trying to bury Kosa in mud. He then goes on to say that your vote on Kosa is even worse than TS's because TS's vote could be town sheeping town, but you just want him dead. So the main idea is that TS might be scum for trying to bury Kosa but you're more likely than him for wanting Kosa dead.
TS's behavior in the matter has me leaning scum mostly because of the burial post.
I don't know how you can extract a "pro-town" read or anything besides "lean scum" from that post.
The nature of what I said was not this.
Yes?
You are playing semantics. What I said H_T said was that it was probably town, which is what he did imply. Probably-town would be pro-town.
Like holy **** stop misrepresenting yourself and me.
This post is my point it is a mess.
Its null read then scum read then what ever.