2487 says it all. "I am withholding and I'm lying but it's cool guys because I say I'm town so that makes me town. And since I say I'm town I'm entitled to do these things I'm accusing other people of being scum for."
Let's go back to the might be lying bit though. I firmly believe that's a true statement and I firmly believe it applies to his name cop claim. The only target he claimed that wasn't already offered up in thread was silver, an ability he failed on and claimed so the day at happened. So he's locked into that target and no result no matter what. N2 he targets shock. Why? Shock was nailed insanely early game as Patrick because of his posting restriction. He confirmed it day 2 before Tom targeted him. Even if Tom thinks he's lying, shock is on the short list to be lynched already (referencing those including Tom who stated a desire to lynch Patrick-shock pre EoD2). So name checking him does nothing towards clearing him as Tom is down with lynching shock even if he is Patrick as portrayed at that moment in time. This reads text book safe result fake claim to me. His day 3 isn't much better although it would be more understandable. Yet even then why wheat and not the (relatively) absent KJ? Wheat essentially claimed for KJ so confirming KJ lends credibility to wheat so it makes more sense. Granted you run into the same problems regardless (one being truthful and the other possibly being somebody else altogether if it's a fake mason claim), so toms choice in targeting again seems to be take it off of what some that is talking says. If they are lying they won't contradict you. Still a relative safe result to claim if you're lying.
So that leaves in a position where Tom can now lay heavy emphasis on flavor lynches because "look at all the name cops, it must be important!" While not actually verifying his claim. This puts us in an extra precarious situation when we take Kosa's claim into account.
So what does all this mean to me. Well I'm fairly certain the truest thing Tom said is that he targeted silver N1 and his ability was foiled. If he is a name cop as he claims hed have to account for that somehow. The fact that he's not even bothering trying to also leads me to believe he's lying there. But let's do it for him. The simplest answer if he's telling the truth is that being name copped is deemed a bad thing for silver per my role. Which could be the case if there's a lyncher role out there or some such thing. The alternative is that silver is just immune to such type of roles. Also possible. Both of these have grander implications for the game and silver respectively, but as I said Tom's been pretty much just ignoring the situation altogether which leads me to see one of two situations: Tom is lying and can see why his actual targeting of silver was countered, or Tom doesn't actually give a ***** about figuring things out and is just driving whatever Lynch he sees fit at the moment. Neither one of these is good for town to leave unchecked.
Now in terms of night 3, as said its easy to see why you'd name check a claimed mason, but it's also easy to see why a lying Tom would choose somebody else who has already name claimed. As I've pointed out before Tom and wheat have been extremely buddy this game. While this doesn't translate to they both have to be scum, I could see non town Tom backing wheat so that wheat would continue to back Tom in return. But bringing kosa back into the mix, I don't see Tom as the redirector because of the N1 silver claim mentioned above. Given the redirector has been protecting the claimed masons I'd say it's likely then that the ability is spawning from one of them. Tom is in a position now where he may be coincidentally protecting lying scum with a lie of his own, so if Tom is lying and does have towns interest at heart, he should out with it. I don't expect that will happen though. So...
@KoD: I have a reason for you not to claim your flavor. I wish to test Tom if we don't lynch him today. Make him prove his claim. Since nothing he's presented verifies anything he's claimed so far it is the most logical move for town.
@KoD: I have a reason for you not to claim your flavor. I wish to test Tom if we don't lynch him today. Make him prove his claim. Since nothing he's presented verifies anything he's claimed so far it is the most logical move for town.
That doesn't work. Scum can NK KoD and we're back at square one.
True, but if scums busy wasting NK on used up JoaTs then they aren't killing active town power roles. Essentially they'd have to hit a vanilla for little gain. Unless they fear an actual name cop I don't see them as caring to bother, especially if they think/know Tom is lying. Conversely we don't lose much at this point from KoD not flavor claiming. From a town information perspective we will get KoD's flavor tonight one way or the other.
Of course this is in the event Tom doesn't get lynched. If he's lynched today it's all moot. I think he's lying so I have no qualms lynching him now instead of waiting for him to lie to us some more tomorrow.
Why would Wheat deliberately tie himself to KJ if they're scum together to save him? KJ is going to need lynched at some point if one of them isn't the NK and if he's scum, Wheat has to be his buddy.
Tom can't be the redirector because he targeted me with a failed ability on the night Brinatoo was redirected. Or he made that up, I guess.
The redirector probably isn't KJ or Wheat. If it's one of them, they can self-target. Is that often a thing? I don't know.
Problem with KoD's theory:
There's actually something else to mention too. I believe I know how Fable knew of the EMH/The Doctor (or w/e that role was that Citric was). It's because of you Tom. Specifically, I believe your ability to get a name is a day ability which is how Fable knew of it.
If Tom name copped Rhand/Citric on D1, why didn't Rhand counterclaim Fable? If Tom knew The Doctor was in the game, but was town, why would Fable claim that when he was going to get counterclaimed? Did he make up targeting me on N1 and having his ability fail, or does he have day and night actions?
This whole Fable claiming a role that was in the game but not on the scum team and not getting counterclaimed is really weird to me, regardless of how he knew. Maybe they have a death tailor or something that altered Citric's alignment for the flip? That would leave (probably) one scum left unless there's five to balance all the town kill shots, but that person would have had to predict that Citric would turn up dead. Or Citric was just a straight-up scum death miller, I guess. Hrm.
We already know the role (blank)/Rhand/Citric had is town. We already know the behavior of Rhand as well as Citric. Let's focus on Rhand though. Why didn't he counterclaim Fable when Fable claimed to be The Doctor? More than likely it is because Rhand was, quite literally, not paying attention to the game (as evidenced by his eventual replacing out which indicates he likely had more going on outside the game). Point being, Rhand isn't going to counterclaim if he isn't paying attention. Besides, Fable intentionally claimed scum because he wanted to out himself. He (more than) likely claimed to be The Doctor so he'd get counterclaimed intentionally (and this is a very probably scenario given Fable outing himself already).
As for Tom and his name cop ability specifically, explain how Fable picked a name that belonged to a town player already. Out of the many characters Fable could pick he picks that one. He *could* have gotten lucky in picking that person, or he could have picked it because he had inside knowledge of its existence in this game (probably from a player who can cop the name during the day since Fable claimed it and died all on D1). Tom fits the bill of being the one to provide that kind of information to the mafia team for them to use as they see fit.
As for whether or not he has night actions *and* day actions, maybe. I'm certainly positive, given the events, he has day abilities. Maybe not night abilities. Based on Half's assessment, it's likely Tomw as crafting them as safely as he could.
Back on Fable again: The situation isn't that weird. He wasn't counterclaimed by a town player who ended up replacing out. It isn't a stretch to imagine the counterclaim never happened because the player (Rhand) wasn't paying attention. Your theories about Citric's alignment changing are more complicated than what is presented. It's far more likely Rhand (Citric) was a town player that just wasn't paying attention as opposed to the role having been altered in a bastard way.
But why would Fable risk being counterclaimed at all if he knew The Doctor was in the game and town?
Like. There's only three scenarios here.
1) he wanted to be counterclaimed by Rhand.
2) he didn't know The Doctor was an actual role in the game.
3) The Doctor was scum with him so he knew he wouldn't be counterclaimed.
Lol. Good luck to the "lynch tom" contingent.
You don't have the votes to lynch me or the gravitas to direct my night actions. But the attempt is fun.
More of the false bravado to try and throw off a lynch? Do you have a reason you are town other than saying you are town? So far, all you have done is push a push TappingStones to a become a pueso mislynch. He was going to die anyways due to his actions in getting kicked out of the game, but prior to that, you drove it really hard. You were so certain he was scum, and then when he didn't flip scum you just shrugged and said oh well. It looks like to me you were just trying to direct people away from you.
i did a brief search for TS' case on me while i was on a real computer so i could quote it to respond to when i can, but i only found some disjointed thoughts about me jumping on wagons and acting weird. which are both factually true but he didnt really explain why it made me scum. perhaps i missed the good part of the case?
This is the last quote from Tom in Stargate Mafia before we crucified him. He was scum. It feels very similar to this game. Check out the Iso.
@Tapping me "tying myself" to cyan isn't about alignment. I just think yall are being dicks to him and he doesn't deserve it.
It seems like he can take it, and is too classy to call anyone out on it, but that doesn't make it ok.
Here's Scum!Tom trying to white knight in Stargate. Feels eerily similar to how he's acting this game in defense of Cyan. @CrystalIn that game Cyan was town and Tom was trying to white knight to get people to suspect me even though I was already mod confirmed town. I had been revived by Citric after I flipped town in a normal.
"Confirmed town" could still be on the other team.
Tom also had this little doozy!
All in all, the Tom lynch looks very promising at this point. He sort of zigged when he should have zagged today. Hopping on and off the two most volatile wagons late was perhaps too much.
He keeps saying over and over again that my lynch is gonna happen, but that's not true.
Does anyone else have experience with Scum!Tom? His sense of urgency on getting me lynched is not what I would expect from a town player who wanted to get things right.
There is a lot to be gleaned here from this post. I went and read the game, and Tom is acting very similar in that game to what he is doing now. Granted his whole style is to half ass everything but as a poster other than TappingStones said in that thread, 'Tom likes to run his mouth". Tom appears to go for the opposite of the lurker gambit and instead hopes by saying as much as possible, he can both throw any real suspicion away from him or at least confuse everyone to the point they just say screw it and move on. There is the chance he could be doing to draw out scum, but I'm not getting the idea that is what he is going for in this line of posting.
His "claim" tells nothing other than he knows how read the thread. The things he said were already public information so there is no way to disprove his claim there.
He is my vote for lynching tonight. I'm going to start looking for the rest of the scum, later. I have a lot of work to do and I 'm not sure when I will be able to get back on.
Vote: tomsloger
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I set fire, to the rain.
And pretty much everything else.
Also, it would help if Killjoy and Zinger were actually playing this game. Their last post were a week ago, and Killjoy has 21 posts TOTAL this game. Like, seriously.
Then explain to me how and why were you able to target Wheat while I wasn't.
I already posited a potential reason. I don't think that line of reasoning is going to get us anywhere.
With my role specifically there is clearly a number of redirects/prevention in this game. The fact that we see none either say they are all dead or that they are on the scum side of things.
Then explain to me how and why were you able to target Wheat while I wasn't.
well, I targeted wheat, and it worked.
And my result was in the form of "wg is keiko" so I wasn't redirected. (Not that it wouldn't already be an insane coincidence to get redirected to someone with the name he claimed)
So I think that means that whatever happened to you was directed at you, not wheat
Wait did Tom every claim a name before someone else claimed?
IE X is Y?
Then that person confirmed they were Y?
nope. I used it to confirm claims nights 2 and 3 and unsuccessfully tried to catch "borg queen" night 1
Oh cool, then yeah you have to claim your ultimate for me please.
Look, if you had put one up as good faith and the confirmed the other two then I'd be fine with you keeping that undercover. You didn't play this role right.
[quote from="Kosakosa »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/719646-star-trek-myriad-universes-mafia-iv-day-4?comment=2528"]So I think that means that whatever happened to you was directed at you, not wheat
I've already covered that as a possibility and already said I see no reason for that.
So please, if you do, then tell me why would scum waste a night action on me.
Yeah, night actions not exactly my strong suit. But I feel good about confirming wheat.
My reason for keeping it secret is sort of evaporating, but I think it's still best to keep it close to the vest overall.
Frankly I believe you, but your reaction against KoD while using the same logic is silly to me.
Both of you are approaching the claim in the same way, of I know best. But neither of you have developed any reason to trust you guys on that. And both of you are refusing to do so. KoD's is more illogical to me though, because its flavor and he's claiming it has no bearing on the game so why not share then? Like who cares? It makes me believe he is hiding something. You, its more of a plan. But the trust still isn't there.
I still think anyone voting Tom over KoD for these reasons is scummy. And Kosa being adamant that "Tom being able to target X while I couldn't" is silly. There are plenty of other redirects, that could do the same thing. The fact that he has ruled these out of possibilities bothers me.
@ Kosa are you guys actually masons or just a talking group?
Same to wheat actually. Are you guys confirmed to each other?
I never said it had no bearing on the game DV. I've asserted that based on what is currently available it does not matter. That could change down the road, but for now I see nothing that makes me believe as such.
so that is all you are going to answer? I cannot tell if you are just being half-hearted in playing this game, deflecting, or both. And asking us to trust you is not going to work. You haven't given us a reason to trust you. I really don't trust your "ultimate" since are trying so hard to keep it secret when everyone is claiming. It might let us put some trust in you if you told us what your ultimate did.
I still think anyone voting Tom over KoD for these reasons is scummy. And Kosa being adamant that "Tom being able to target X while I couldn't" is silly. There are plenty of other redirects, that could do the same thing. The fact that he has ruled these out of possibilities bothers me.
I can get behind your reasoning. The whole "tom being able to target while I couldn't" is a weird defense. I assume that a redirect would only work once, or are they known to stop any and all actions?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I set fire, to the rain.
And pretty much everything else.
I assume that a redirect would only work once, or are they known to stop any and all actions?
There isn't an order of resolution in the OP, so I don't think Annorax would make a "the first ability used against player X tonight is redirected to player Y instead" role because we (including the ability user) don't have access to what resolves first. It's bad form, and Annorax is an experienced mod.
I never said it had no bearing on the game DV. I've asserted that based on what is currently available it does not matter. That could change down the road, but for now I see nothing that makes me believe as such.
and this is the part that makes you scum. If yours is the only role you've seen, you have absolutely no way to know if it matters or not
Again, I'm asking Tom and everybody else calling my point silly/weird:
Please explain to me a plausible scum mindset where they waste a Night action on me to divert my target from Wheat to H_T last Night, despite the plethora of better targets.
You want to dismiss my points? Sure. But show me a viable scenario that makes more sense than what I'm saying, then.
Actually yeah I do know Tom since the only thing I haven't claimed is my flavor, but never mind that. You just worry about doing whatever it is you are doing because you're scum.
I'm already sold on Tom due to a plethora of things. What you bring up, the fact he cops names and Fable had the name of a town player, and his reaction to me rejecting claiming my flavor.
@Kosa:
I don't know if they make more sense, but here's a few off the top of my head:
H_T is one of the remaining scum and they wanted to make sure your ability was used on him to reduce the chances of him getting lynched.
They thought your ability confirmed alignments and wanted to make sure you targeted someone that was town no matter what, preventing you from using it as a psuedocop.
They really wanted you to talk to Half_Time for some reason.
It was a town ability that redirects things that target you to Half_Time in addition to forcing you to target him. But then one of us is still lying or it came from Brinatoo or Citric. Probably wasn't Brinatoo and Citric claimed vanilla. Citric could have lied, I guess.
What does everyone (besides Wheat) think of D_V's claim?
@Kosa I don't think your point is silly. It's super weird that I targeted wheat and you couldnt.
But apparently that's what happened, so it has to be something.
Pretty sure I'm done interacting with KoD here. He's either scum or blinded by his own bull*****. Maybe both.
And letting him keep yell about the same thing won't clarify it
Again, I'm asking Tom and everybody else calling my point silly/weird:
Please explain to me a plausible scum mindset where they waste a Night action on me to divert my target from Wheat to H_T last Night, despite the plethora of better targets.
You want to dismiss my points? Sure. But show me a viable scenario that makes more sense than what I'm saying, then.
Let's go back to the might be lying bit though. I firmly believe that's a true statement and I firmly believe it applies to his name cop claim. The only target he claimed that wasn't already offered up in thread was silver, an ability he failed on and claimed so the day at happened. So he's locked into that target and no result no matter what. N2 he targets shock. Why? Shock was nailed insanely early game as Patrick because of his posting restriction. He confirmed it day 2 before Tom targeted him. Even if Tom thinks he's lying, shock is on the short list to be lynched already (referencing those including Tom who stated a desire to lynch Patrick-shock pre EoD2). So name checking him does nothing towards clearing him as Tom is down with lynching shock even if he is Patrick as portrayed at that moment in time. This reads text book safe result fake claim to me. His day 3 isn't much better although it would be more understandable. Yet even then why wheat and not the (relatively) absent KJ? Wheat essentially claimed for KJ so confirming KJ lends credibility to wheat so it makes more sense. Granted you run into the same problems regardless (one being truthful and the other possibly being somebody else altogether if it's a fake mason claim), so toms choice in targeting again seems to be take it off of what some that is talking says. If they are lying they won't contradict you. Still a relative safe result to claim if you're lying.
So that leaves in a position where Tom can now lay heavy emphasis on flavor lynches because "look at all the name cops, it must be important!" While not actually verifying his claim. This puts us in an extra precarious situation when we take Kosa's claim into account.
So what does all this mean to me. Well I'm fairly certain the truest thing Tom said is that he targeted silver N1 and his ability was foiled. If he is a name cop as he claims hed have to account for that somehow. The fact that he's not even bothering trying to also leads me to believe he's lying there. But let's do it for him. The simplest answer if he's telling the truth is that being name copped is deemed a bad thing for silver per my role. Which could be the case if there's a lyncher role out there or some such thing. The alternative is that silver is just immune to such type of roles. Also possible. Both of these have grander implications for the game and silver respectively, but as I said Tom's been pretty much just ignoring the situation altogether which leads me to see one of two situations: Tom is lying and can see why his actual targeting of silver was countered, or Tom doesn't actually give a ***** about figuring things out and is just driving whatever Lynch he sees fit at the moment. Neither one of these is good for town to leave unchecked.
Now in terms of night 3, as said its easy to see why you'd name check a claimed mason, but it's also easy to see why a lying Tom would choose somebody else who has already name claimed. As I've pointed out before Tom and wheat have been extremely buddy this game. While this doesn't translate to they both have to be scum, I could see non town Tom backing wheat so that wheat would continue to back Tom in return. But bringing kosa back into the mix, I don't see Tom as the redirector because of the N1 silver claim mentioned above. Given the redirector has been protecting the claimed masons I'd say it's likely then that the ability is spawning from one of them. Tom is in a position now where he may be coincidentally protecting lying scum with a lie of his own, so if Tom is lying and does have towns interest at heart, he should out with it. I don't expect that will happen though. So...
@KoD: I have a reason for you not to claim your flavor. I wish to test Tom if we don't lynch him today. Make him prove his claim. Since nothing he's presented verifies anything he's claimed so far it is the most logical move for town.
That doesn't work. Scum can NK KoD and we're back at square one.
I'm just saying there's lots of flaws in the "let Tom test him claim" scenario proposed by H_T. We have no control over the results.
Of course this is in the event Tom doesn't get lynched. If he's lynched today it's all moot. I think he's lying so I have no qualms lynching him now instead of waiting for him to lie to us some more tomorrow.
You don't have the votes to lynch me or the gravitas to direct my night actions. But the attempt is fun.
Tom can't be the redirector because he targeted me with a failed ability on the night Brinatoo was redirected. Or he made that up, I guess.
The redirector probably isn't KJ or Wheat. If it's one of them, they can self-target. Is that often a thing? I don't know.
Problem with KoD's theory:
If Tom name copped Rhand/Citric on D1, why didn't Rhand counterclaim Fable? If Tom knew The Doctor was in the game, but was town, why would Fable claim that when he was going to get counterclaimed? Did he make up targeting me on N1 and having his ability fail, or does he have day and night actions?
This whole Fable claiming a role that was in the game but not on the scum team and not getting counterclaimed is really weird to me, regardless of how he knew. Maybe they have a death tailor or something that altered Citric's alignment for the flip? That would leave (probably) one scum left unless there's five to balance all the town kill shots, but that person would have had to predict that Citric would turn up dead. Or Citric was just a straight-up scum death miller, I guess. Hrm.
We already know the role (blank)/Rhand/Citric had is town. We already know the behavior of Rhand as well as Citric. Let's focus on Rhand though. Why didn't he counterclaim Fable when Fable claimed to be The Doctor? More than likely it is because Rhand was, quite literally, not paying attention to the game (as evidenced by his eventual replacing out which indicates he likely had more going on outside the game). Point being, Rhand isn't going to counterclaim if he isn't paying attention. Besides, Fable intentionally claimed scum because he wanted to out himself. He (more than) likely claimed to be The Doctor so he'd get counterclaimed intentionally (and this is a very probably scenario given Fable outing himself already).
As for Tom and his name cop ability specifically, explain how Fable picked a name that belonged to a town player already. Out of the many characters Fable could pick he picks that one. He *could* have gotten lucky in picking that person, or he could have picked it because he had inside knowledge of its existence in this game (probably from a player who can cop the name during the day since Fable claimed it and died all on D1). Tom fits the bill of being the one to provide that kind of information to the mafia team for them to use as they see fit.
As for whether or not he has night actions *and* day actions, maybe. I'm certainly positive, given the events, he has day abilities. Maybe not night abilities. Based on Half's assessment, it's likely Tomw as crafting them as safely as he could.
Back on Fable again: The situation isn't that weird. He wasn't counterclaimed by a town player who ended up replacing out. It isn't a stretch to imagine the counterclaim never happened because the player (Rhand) wasn't paying attention. Your theories about Citric's alignment changing are more complicated than what is presented. It's far more likely Rhand (Citric) was a town player that just wasn't paying attention as opposed to the role having been altered in a bastard way.
Like. There's only three scenarios here.
1) he wanted to be counterclaimed by Rhand.
2) he didn't know The Doctor was an actual role in the game.
3) The Doctor was scum with him so he knew he wouldn't be counterclaimed.
Or the scum have a Tailor that had a suit for "The Doctor" that they used on Citric but that wasn't actually his role.
I mean, it's not exactly unheard of for players to do what Fable did. The "idgaf" train of thought is out there. To screw with people possibly.
The SK currently has the phaser.
That SK is Silver.
More of the false bravado to try and throw off a lynch? Do you have a reason you are town other than saying you are town? So far, all you have done is push a push TappingStones to a become a pueso mislynch. He was going to die anyways due to his actions in getting kicked out of the game, but prior to that, you drove it really hard. You were so certain he was scum, and then when he didn't flip scum you just shrugged and said oh well. It looks like to me you were just trying to direct people away from you.
There is a lot to be gleaned here from this post. I went and read the game, and Tom is acting very similar in that game to what he is doing now. Granted his whole style is to half ass everything but as a poster other than TappingStones said in that thread, 'Tom likes to run his mouth". Tom appears to go for the opposite of the lurker gambit and instead hopes by saying as much as possible, he can both throw any real suspicion away from him or at least confuse everyone to the point they just say screw it and move on. There is the chance he could be doing to draw out scum, but I'm not getting the idea that is what he is going for in this line of posting.
His "claim" tells nothing other than he knows how read the thread. The things he said were already public information so there is no way to disprove his claim there.
He is my vote for lynching tonight. I'm going to start looking for the rest of the scum, later. I have a lot of work to do and I 'm not sure when I will be able to get back on.
Vote: tomsloger
And pretty much everything else.
You sure you guys are playing to win?
Will you save us time and fullclaim or wait until put to L-2?
Oh no my friend.
Its an SK with 2 kills now.
And have no plans on claiming further today.
I already posited a potential reason. I don't think that line of reasoning is going to get us anywhere.
With my role specifically there is clearly a number of redirects/prevention in this game. The fact that we see none either say they are all dead or that they are on the scum side of things.
IE X is Y?
Then that person confirmed they were Y?
And my result was in the form of "wg is keiko" so I wasn't redirected. (Not that it wouldn't already be an insane coincidence to get redirected to someone with the name he claimed)
So I think that means that whatever happened to you was directed at you, not wheat
Oh cool, then yeah you have to claim your ultimate for me please.
Look, if you had put one up as good faith and the confirmed the other two then I'd be fine with you keeping that undercover. You didn't play this role right.
You gotta claim now.
My reason for keeping it secret is sort of evaporating, but I think it's still best to keep it close to the vest overall.
I've already covered that as a possibility and already said I see no reason for that.
So please, if you do, then tell me why would scum waste a night action on me.
Frankly I believe you, but your reaction against KoD while using the same logic is silly to me.
Both of you are approaching the claim in the same way, of I know best. But neither of you have developed any reason to trust you guys on that. And both of you are refusing to do so. KoD's is more illogical to me though, because its flavor and he's claiming it has no bearing on the game so why not share then? Like who cares? It makes me believe he is hiding something. You, its more of a plan. But the trust still isn't there.
I still think anyone voting Tom over KoD for these reasons is scummy. And Kosa being adamant that "Tom being able to target X while I couldn't" is silly. There are plenty of other redirects, that could do the same thing. The fact that he has ruled these out of possibilities bothers me.
@ Kosa are you guys actually masons or just a talking group?
Same to wheat actually. Are you guys confirmed to each other?
so that is all you are going to answer? I cannot tell if you are just being half-hearted in playing this game, deflecting, or both. And asking us to trust you is not going to work. You haven't given us a reason to trust you. I really don't trust your "ultimate" since are trying so hard to keep it secret when everyone is claiming. It might let us put some trust in you if you told us what your ultimate did.
I can get behind your reasoning. The whole "tom being able to target while I couldn't" is a weird defense. I assume that a redirect would only work once, or are they known to stop any and all actions?
And pretty much everything else.
There isn't an order of resolution in the OP, so I don't think Annorax would make a "the first ability used against player X tonight is redirected to player Y instead" role because we (including the ability user) don't have access to what resolves first. It's bad form, and Annorax is an experienced mod.
Please explain to me a plausible scum mindset where they waste a Night action on me to divert my target from Wheat to H_T last Night, despite the plethora of better targets.
You want to dismiss my points? Sure. But show me a viable scenario that makes more sense than what I'm saying, then.
I'm already sold on Tom due to a plethora of things. What you bring up, the fact he cops names and Fable had the name of a town player, and his reaction to me rejecting claiming my flavor.
He is totes scum.
I don't know if they make more sense, but here's a few off the top of my head:
H_T is one of the remaining scum and they wanted to make sure your ability was used on him to reduce the chances of him getting lynched.
They thought your ability confirmed alignments and wanted to make sure you targeted someone that was town no matter what, preventing you from using it as a psuedocop.
They really wanted you to talk to Half_Time for some reason.
It was a town ability that redirects things that target you to Half_Time in addition to forcing you to target him. But then one of us is still lying or it came from Brinatoo or Citric. Probably wasn't Brinatoo and Citric claimed vanilla. Citric could have lied, I guess.
What does everyone (besides Wheat) think of D_V's claim?
But apparently that's what happened, so it has to be something.
Pretty sure I'm done interacting with KoD here. He's either scum or blinded by his own bull*****. Maybe both.
And letting him keep yell about the same thing won't clarify it
You're thinking about this wrong.
Its not from wheat to H_T.
Its make you target H_T.
You should be more concerned with the issues surrounding you since giving off scum vibes with the bs you are spewing forth.
Point blank DVs claim is what it is.
@D_V:
What about your role makes your say this? You're a strongman, full stop, nothing else, right?
So what are you looking for "considering your own role"? Why do you think many people are lying? Could you elaborate, please?
No go read my role again.