Uhh also is a lynch already occurring? Or one is just close to threshold? I have literally no context but the last few posts (which have a lot of words) and my replacement confirmation (which mentions a potential lynch scene?)?
I don't have time to do a votecount and write a lynch scene until I'm off work tonight. I believe we're there, but unless Teia has time to do a votecount, we're probably five or six hours away from me being able to take care of it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Not Voting: (5) Killjoy, Necarg, Rhand, Shockwave07, D_V
The lens filter fades, but not before a certain Prophet with a strange aura, whip-like belt a little loose and unfastened on her waist, takes one last look around the station with a smirk uncharacteristic of a timeless immortal being.
So, Citric. How's it going? Tom's pretty much got the gist of it. Fable was accidentally lynched at L-1 so we're being super careful with vote counts now.
Some people have roles that basically function like planeswalkers but with latinum instead of loyalty. I've claimed latinum role but not my abilities. Tom targeted me last night and got blocked, but I didn't do it. TS claimed future-Spock but lied. Which brings me to the GE human triplets:
They've all claimed no knowledge or connection between their roles (except Necarg, who disappeared), but they all have an interesting, uh, feature. Shockwave has to answer some questions each day with "That's a stupid question." Necarg has to make a sex joke in every post or something. TS gets a mod post about him doing something embarrassing when he gets targeted with an ability.
KoD has some one-shot abilities he hasn't claimed, he used one of them to find out TS's name. He's the one who said TS wasn't Spock.
Mindreaver can double Latinum gains or losses overnight, and has another ability he hasn't claimed but that he targeted DoTA with and it didn't work.
Brinatoo also targeted DoTA with something but was redirected.
H_T says I'm definitely not Borg but won't say why.
Kosa is a Town Borg [redacted] and not a cult. I'll let him claim that if he wants.
Oh, and Fable claimed to be the Emergency Medical Holo (The Doctor) from Voyager with a butt load of anti-cult abilities, but flipped Godmother (Iliana Ghemor, Kira Nerys Impersonator).
unvote so the lurkers can add their 2 cents on the wagons.
Killjoy, Necarg, DoT: if citric comes in and reads/weighs in before you, shame.
Sorry. I've had a lot of early shifts recently and my body hasn't adjusted yet. I'm checking out the TS wagon now. Although, from what I've read so far from him, he's acting out of the ordinary from what I've seen from him normally. Will start from Wheat's vote and scan for the other ones.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So that was a lot of *****. And I mean that literally.
@MR, you asked something along the lines of I thought a scumDV would be more likely to draw attention to himself over a scumTS, but the answer is I don't think either were trying to. TS was very content where he was in the middle ground before KoD caught him in his lie. The problem is from that point on TS was a focusing ground. At that point he can't just step back from the lime light, to get out of it he would have to shift it somewhere else. Enter me and you. With the discussion we were having about TS already there's a bit of a polarity between me and TS. I wouldn't say we are true polar opposites (as in if TS is scum HT has to be town or vice versa), but in a quick view it's probably close enough to get people not looking at him. This is where his misrepping/mudslinging starts. As for DV, I don't see him as expecting people to look into his vote that much, similar to his day 1 kosa vote. But as the day went and both were forced to speak on the matter more they were pushed further into the spotlight rather than being away.
Probably won't be getting back to Tom today since we're already queuing for the show, so if day drags a little more that won't be a problem for me.
Brinatoo also targeted DoTA with something but was redirected.
I never said that, and I'm not willing to reclarify. I have been asking DoT questions because I have a theory.
Some other things I think you've left out/have wrong: KoD also claimed a block on TS, and Mind never said his target on DoT did not work, but just that DoT claimed to not have anything strange happen last Night and Mind finds that strange.
I also don't remember Necarg claiming Lauren. Idk who or if you assumed such. Is the "triplets" not necessarily they are related to one another but just flavor related? I'm looking at those pages and Sarina is also on there as a GE human.
Mind said he was Lauren, I believe. He definitely tied Necarg and Shockwave's restrictions together, though I may have just assumed Necarg was Lauren from that. Makes sense since she tried to sleep with just about everyone. Plus he called himself a "promiscuous little *****" if I recall correctly. But you're right, he never claimed it himself.
The other stuff I was just going from memory, didn't want to reread the whole day just for claim stuff. Thanks for the correction though.
Actually, with your thing, Mind was the one who said you got redirected and he said that he didn't do it. I'm cool if you don't want to clarify though.
Actually, with your thing, Mind was the one who said you got redirected and he said that he didn't do it. I'm cool if you don't want to clarify though.
No? I said I got redirected to open the day iirc, he just claimed he didn't redirect me. You're confusing me with phrasing it like "Mind was the one who said you got redirected and he said that he didn't do it." because Mind would only bring that up if he knew about it or if I had brought it up beforehand. Easy logic.
Ok. I'm cool leaving it there, to be honest, but my train of thought went something like "Brinatoo was redirected" -> "Brinatoo asking DoTA about stuff" -> "Mindreaver targeted DoTA" -> "Brinatoo has a theory about who redirected him" -> "Mindreaver says he didn't do it" -> "Obviously they're talking about DoTA since that's who they've both been talking about."
So, yeah. If you're just saying you didn't target DoTA, that's fine. I just had it wrong, is all.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Currently in rereading Tom's posts, but want to make a few notes of current events.
@Tom: Careful with that type of thinking (5 scum & 1 Borg too lopsided), thinking like that sunk town in a previous game here, Futurama mafia... Which I was on the losing side of.
(Quick explanation 12 man game. No way town thought there could be 1 neutral & 3 scum. WRONG!!! Town got lazy after the second scum flip.)
@Silver: ...I don't think role reviews are what the new replacement needs. I mean they're helpful, but it doesn't give him a sense of how the game flowed to this point. It's null, and a bad way to get someone up to speed.
@Teia: Psst. Rhand's slot became CriticBase's!
@Critic: 1.5 k is a lot of posts to go through... We do have flips though, and players who could be examined. Pick one and see how they reacted to Scum!Fable, Town!Sir Chris, and Town!Mongoose.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
@Killjoy-What are your impressions of Tom? Specifically, if you don't mind checking him out from the push against Silvercrys as borg late in day one, up to his hop on HT's wagon and then the hop onto my wagon. Am I off to say that he doesn't look particularly good? Interested in your thoughts.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
I disagree with KoD not looking bad.
I don't understand how someone parrots attitudes like "Proper play" and then jumps on a lynch that is so emotionally charged.
Minus Fable, 4-5 anti-town left out of 18 players.
Minus me (or you instead), 4-5 anti-town left out of 17 players.
Minus Chris and col_mongoose, 4-5 anti-town left out of 15 players.
4 / 15 = .2666... or 26.666...%
5 / 15 = .3333... or 33.333...%
So the chances are about the same now as they were for a totally random player at game start that a player other than me (or you) is scum.
Sorry, I actually like math. Feel free to ignore me.
The math checks out, but the stats are wrong.
Think about it.
You think a good lynch is someone who has at least a 60% chance of being town?
Math wise nobody is a good lynch, you are just miss using statistics here. There are multiple other factors that can be used when assessing players that can add or detract from scumminess or town probability.
But to say that 60% is a null tell is just wrong.
Its like saying you have a 60% chance to kill someone, so I am going to assume you are not. No, I am going to assume that you are.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
@Killjoy-What are your impressions of Tom? Specifically, if you don't mind checking him out from the push against Silvercrys as borg late in day one, up to his hop on HT's wagon and then the hop onto my wagon. Am I off to say that he doesn't look particularly good? Interested in your thoughts.
Tom is so scummy I can't even begin to explain.
Literally say a scum tell then put a check mark on it. Tom fulfills like everything.
@CitricThere was a bit of suspicion on your slot from the two previous players. From my point of view I'm looking for activity. I didn't like the comment Rhand made about him "wanting to sub" into the other player's scum slot, but a lot has happened since then.
There's a divisive dicotomy right now. The people that think HT is scum (Mindreaver, D_V and I) and people who think I am scum. Some people are voting for me currently even though I'm a town read (seemingly based on frustration).
Tom has gotten more looks as my wagon developed and ground to a halt. He jumped onto HT's wagon and then jumped onto mine.
I'd love it if you could take a look at Tom because I think he was pretty sure I'd be dead right now and dropped his guard. Anyway, take a look. A lot of the argument against me was that I was furious and that was off-putting.
I'm not using statistics to justify the lynch. I'm saying that 65-70% is the same as any player chosen at random, which is therefore the same as null.
I mean, I see what you're saying -- odds are better than a coin flip that he's town. Right? But he's not any more or less likely to be scum than anyone else, which makes it a null read. I'm speaking in relative terms that he's more or less likely to flip scum than others.
I'm not using statistics to justify the lynch. I'm saying that 65-70% is the same as any player chosen at random, which is therefore the same as null.
I mean, I see what you're saying -- odds are better than a coin flip that he's town. Right? But he's not any more or less likely to be scum than anyone else, which makes it a null read. I'm speaking in relative terms that he's more or less likely to flip scum than others.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
I disagree with KoD not looking bad.
I don't understand how someone parrots attitudes like "Proper play" and then jumps on a lynch that is so emotionally charged.
Minus Fable, 4-5 anti-town left out of 18 players.
Minus me (or you instead), 4-5 anti-town left out of 17 players.
Minus Chris and col_mongoose, 4-5 anti-town left out of 15 players.
4 / 15 = .2666... or 26.666...%
5 / 15 = .3333... or 33.333...%
So the chances are about the same now as they were for a totally random player at game start that a player other than me (or you) is scum.
Sorry, I actually like math. Feel free to ignore me.
The math checks out, but the stats are wrong.
Think about it.
You think a good lynch is someone who has at least a 60% chance of being town?
Math wise nobody is a good lynch, you are just miss using statistics here. There are multiple other factors that can be used when assessing players that can add or detract from scumminess or town probability.
But to say that 60% is a null tell is just wrong.
Its like saying you have a 60% chance to kill someone, so I am going to assume you are not. No, I am going to assume that you are.
It's a little more gross than that. He said 65-70% that I would flip town and that it was also his "gut feeling".
He's letting his emotions totally control him. Just because someone pisses you off doesn't make them scum. In fact, people that piss you off are often town(from my experience). Scum doesn't want to rock the boat and make a bunch of enemies. Town doesn't really think like that. We want to kill the scum before they kill us. The scum have time on their side so they don't play at as frantic a pace as town.
It's very telling that Slivercrys is engaging in logical gymnastics to try and justify his frustration induced mistake. There is no rational argument for his use of math to defend "I'm happy to kill someone that is a gut town read and 70% town". This is fault logic. There is no defense to this.
I don't know that it's scummy, per say but it's an attempt to double down on a mistake. When I put emotion into my posts and rattle cages I get reactions outside of people's comfort zone. In this game, there was gas on the fire and Silvercry and I both let it fly a bit, which is fine. As I said, even good friends and happily married couples say all kind of terrible things to each other. I'm trying to give us the best chance to win as possible and I think the tells from Tom and Silvercry tell us a lot.
HT and Crys are a likely connection if HT is scum. There was also a disturbing quote from Crystal that I'm "probably bussing HT" that means he thinks HT is "probably scum" I can't "bus town!
He also made some comments I don't quite get about if HT flips scum and somehow implying flips mean we should go after D_V.
Troubling stuff. But...I think we are getting somewhere. I'm actually feeling a lot better about today.
Are you seriously going there again? You are continuing to completely misrepresent me after I have completely refuted you. You don't have a leg to stand on here. You've invented your own version of events that you're going to push on us to make you look better, or you're lying to yourself so you don't feel bad. I'm not sure which is worse.
Did you ever go back and read what you actually wrote to me like I asked, instead of just assuming you wrote it like you're doing now?
Are you seriously going there again? You are continuing to completely misrepresent me after I have completely refuted you. You don't have a leg to stand on here. You've invented your own version of events that you're going to push on us to make you look better, or you're lying to yourself so you don't feel bad. I'm not sure which is worse.
Did you ever go back and read what you actually wrote to me like I asked, instead of just assuming you wrote it like you're doing now?
I'm not misrepresenting anythiing. If I am then clearly define it and stop slinging mud.
YOU are misrepresenting and you were called out on it by D_V. Your "math" is a total misrepresentation of what you were saying and doesn't even apply.
You said you want to lynch a 65-70% town read, someone that you have a "gut feeling" is town.
Read incomplete on Tom, but something is coming back into mind as I reread.
I'm getting the impression Tom wants to be a lightning rod of sorts for power roles. Taunting Silver, saying scum missed their chance, probably some other hints as well.
Scum reverse psychology? Town wishing to take the heat? I'll even venture out maybe he wants to be targeted: Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
I need to keep reading but guts telling me something's off.
Ok, even the current posts a lot of you guys are making are very....context-dependent.
I have a lot of free time starting after tomorrow basically, so I'll *try* to motivate myself into working through some of the thread.
I don't really get this setup in general. Ex: Borgs, is that a thematic version of Neutral or Serial Killer or something? And I can't even guess what "latinum" is, a form of currency a la platinum?
I'm gonna go read the OP/setup since maybe YOLO'ing doesn't work since it's a specialty
Yes, i definitely thought tapping would be dead by now.
The only feeling that approaches the joy I feel for killing the scum is tilting the scum.
The tilt itself gives them a feeling of being alive in the game, but dead inside.
To let you into my head a bit, when I'm scum hunting it's about pushing buttons and not wanting to die. The best way to find your townmates is to push to kill scum. Your teammates will often find you based on this conviction.
Tom has been hoping from wagon to wagon. If I had done something like TOm did Silvercrys and others would have wrapped the whole thread around arguing "Why did you jump onto the HT wagon when you did? Then onto the other players wagon hoping a hammer would arrive soon?" I would be chastised (rightly so) for that kind of behavior, but since Tom hasn't ruffled Crystal's feathers he's full bore on me.
How dare you get frustrated with me! Die town!- Is that logical? of course not. It's emotional. He has ADMITTED it's emotionally based.
But Tom is the real gem we got out of the last few pages. POE through HT, Tom (potentially silver based on HT), looks like we would get tons of info.
Alright: Some flavor school, as the game seems built up a lot based on it.
Borg: In Star Trek these are part organic part synthetic life forms, absorbing organic life into its collective hive mind. Flavor wise, would make sense for a neutral cult leader to be Borg "recruiting" others into their number. Lesser chance of someone assimilating others abilities, but that's mod game theorizing.
Also there can be possible exceptions to the rule above as 7 of 9, a character of Star Trek Voyager, could make a town former Borg.
Latinum: Main currency (in gold plated form) of Ferengi. We've had one town player turn up dead as a Ferengi (Sir Chris) and one slip that they had Latinum based abilities (Silver). Don't know how many others have Latinum abilities, but that's best left until flips or ability results start hinting something more.
There's bound to be more, but other than a genetically enhanced human circle (Tapping, Necarg(?), and myself), talk of Vulcans (which Tapping faking being Spock wasn't), and a dead Klingon (Mongoose) not much else has popped up yet. And these subjects are not likely to catch scum at the moment.
Hey it's not my fault everybody seems to think I can't do anything right. I could probably agree with people in thinking kosa was scum and get called out for that too.:frown:
Well this has already turned into a fun little welcoming party, I try to help and get attacked for it. It's fine though I don't mind having to tear through a few people before being able to scumhunt.
Probs unaligned with Cythare considering his weird attention to him later on too
#75-81 make me really feel like Fable and TS are unaligned, if they're aligned then TS basically wants to just bus and get rid of Fable thinking he's a bad scum-mate? Thoughts anyone else?
Again I was just teasing, I didn't actually mean anything by it. Also in my defense Chris told me he was going to eat me and Cy swiped at me first.
I think perhaps we got off to the wrong start and I really don't want anyone here to think I'm malicious in any sort of capacity.
Also I fully intend to scumhunt I just ask that you give me time to prove myself is all.
Ok, so just going off unalignments. We have Sir Chris flipped so known nonalignment interactions between Fable and Sir Chris as a control. I would hazard that Kosa and Cythare are both unaligned with Fable. I kinda think TS is unaligned with Fable as well, but seems like there's a lot of drama surrounding the scumreads on TS right now so idk. People scum-reading TS, can you look at the quotes/posts I mentioned and thoughts on if you see the unalignment or not?
There's also this borg ?cult? that I saw multiple players mention near D1 end? I've played a lot of games involving cults once upon a time in my earlier mafia days, so if anyone wants to bounce ideas off me on cult stuff feel free. From what I remember, cults usually play out with one of the following:
1) Limited number of conversions leader can make
2) Death of cult leader causes a bunch of cult members to die with the leader
3) Cult members can be de-converted back to normal by certain roles
As ways to balance out having a cult in game, ESPECIALLY with a mafia faction in the game as well
So currently at: Strong-lean-Town Cythare and Kosa, lean-Town TS
Granted I don't really know much about the bulk of the game/even the last few pages, but isn't you accusing Tom after he's double-downing on you a little...OMGUSish? It kinda rubs off to me that way re:#1628
i know borg have showed up in previous games in this series as a cult, but i dont know the full implementation.
as for ts-fable, its a lot less convincing when you get to TS howling about how it clears him.
makes me think it was intentional.
i may do the same thing tomorrow, but not like that. it was gross.
Mind pointing out some places where he "howls about how it clears him" for me to look at? Lots easier than going through the entire thread (also MTGS is being super janky and taking minutes to load pages ugh)
Also questions I had
A) Usually on MTGS the default is scum don't have day-chat. Anything in this game that solidly said whether they do or not? Or is there a running assumption of it either way amongst everyone here?
B) Weird that Fable didn't have a role flip (did mods anywhere say specifically what Fable's role abilities were or anything?). Pushes me towards thinking there are either some weird roles out there or maybe argues a bit in favor of Borgs due to balance reasons?
no, i dont want to look through it again. ive already read his posts once.
but he said multiple times that that and his cut scenes should clear him. really rather insistent on it.
the crux of it for me is his thoughts on silver. theres just no god damn way town can read silver's posts and think hes so terrible/useless that you threaten to take it out on him in future games.
dude is pretty good, even if he is borg.
no reason to suspect day chat, but someone who read/played in the other stmu games may know better.
and the two dead townies didnt flip much info either, so i think thats just a thing.
I'm not misrepresenting anythiing. If I am then clearly define it and stop slinging mud.
"Hello, Pot? This the Kettle calling. I heard you were black, is that true? Why, I'm the black one? How dare you." *click*
But fine. For the last time, I will very clearly and explicitly spell out for you what you're misrepresenting. But I won't pretend that I haven't already done this, so below you'll find mostly my earlier responses to things you're still saying. After this, ignore me if you want. I sure as hell won't be responding to your ass.
YOU are misrepresenting and you were called out on it by D_V. Your "math" is a total misrepresentation of what you were saying and doesn't even apply.
This is absolutely false. Someone who is just as likely as anyone else to be scum is not a town read.
You said you want to lynch a 65-70% town read, someone that you have a "gut feeling" is town.
Did you say the above, yes or no?
Yep. I said that. Except statistically a 65-70% chance of town is a null read, and although my gut says you'll flip town, your behavior says otherwise. As I've said over and over again.
Now, your blatant misrepresentations. Again. Starting with the most recent:
How dare you get frustrated with me! Die town!- Is that logical? of course not. It's emotional. He has ADMITTED it's emotionally based.
<Get absolutely ****ed.> I'm so tired of this, since you've pushed this narrative in like three posts and I've already responded to it. Here, Past!Silver, you handle it.
I gave you a break literally all Day because I wasn't sure if this was just something going on outside the game. I even said that! Check my iso, since I'm sure you won't take my word for it, it was sometime towards the beginning of toDay. But when you chose to attack me in the manner you did, just because I found your play wanting, you squandered the last bit of my goodwill. You also have a choice. You could do as I've asked, and reread those posts, and tell me where you answered my questions before blowing up on me. Page 28, I'm not linking them again.
So, you're refusing to go look for the thing that you claim I misrepresented you over in the first place? Or you just can't admit you're wrong, one of the two.
Like, my 65-70% town thing is pure gut. Your actions over the past ~48 hours have been completely outrageous and I have every right to be offended at your display of poor sportsmanship. But whatever. I'm over it now, since obviously you're just going to keep ignoring it. I just can't stand how smug you are, saying other people need to swallow their pride. Why don't you start TS? Swallow your pride. Go back and look at what actually happened instead of assuming you're right. Then I'll swallow mine and we'll see what happens.
For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping.
While the fact is that I was finally convinced to place my vote on you for selfish reasons, there's more than enough evidence to make me comfortable lynching you. I just feel, in my gut, that you'll flip town for reasons I can't quite explain.
Next some stuff I actually haven't responded to yet.
It's a little more gross than that. He said 65-70% that I would flip town and that it was also his "gut feeling".
He's letting his emotions totally control him.
Actually, since it’s my gut saying you’re town, if I let my emotions control me I would’ve unvoted you already. Since I didn’t, I guess you’re wrong.
It's very telling that Slivercrys is engaging in logical gymnastics to try and justify his frustration induced mistake. There is no rational argument for his use of math to defend "I'm happy to kill someone that is a gut town read and 70% town". This is fault logic. There is no defense to this.
I’m not using statistics to justify the lynch. I’m using statistics to refute the idea you had in #1543 that me saying I’m 65-70% town on you is a town read. It isn’t. That’s ******* null. And I'm fine lynching a null over a lean town, especially one that is as disrespectful and unsportsmanlike as yourself. Get it yet?
The case, for the second time in this post, so you can't say it hasn't been presented (even though I presented it almost a hundred posts ago and you're still trying to play the victim), is this: "For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentionally or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping."
Please show me where my emotions have played into the case here. Or get bent. Preferably both, so I can accept my failure with the grace you're apparently incapable of showing... and you can still get bent.
HT and Crys are a likely connection if HT is scum. There was also a disturbing quote from Crystal that I'm "probably bussing HT" that means he thinks HT is "probably scum" I can't "bus town!
And then you say, I'm likely bussing. So we both agree that HT is scum then right? You can't say it's likely I'm bussing and that HT is town. This is hilarious. It can't be both Crystal. You can't town read a guy AND say I'm bussing him.
I never said I thought right this second that you were "likely" to be bussing, I believe I qualified that with "if H_T flips scum." It's also possible you're playing poorly and D_V is bussing.
Quote from TS »
He also made some comments I don't quite get about if HT flips scum and somehow implying flips mean we should go after D_V.
Here, I’ll spell it out again for you.
You.
Asked me.
How I would evaluate the game state if Half_Time flips scum.
I said.
IF Half_Time flips scum (YOUR QUESTION), you or D_V is likely to be bussing him due to the aggressiveness you’re using and how badly (especially you) want the credit for catching him.
Because you correctly said that scum are not likely to go after town this aggressively, so I revised my read. If H_T flips town, you’re playing terribly (my opinion) but are probably town. If he flips scum, one of you is probably bussing him. I’ve said this three times now, but you’re literally ignoring my posts (or selectively reading them) so it isn’t surprising that I have to repeat myself.
To reiterate, IF Half_Time somehow gets lynched toDay and FLIPS SCUM, I want to look at you next, then D_V if you flip town.
Troubling stuff. But...I think we are getting somewhere. I'm actually feeling a lot better about today.
Well, at least one of us is I guess. I was going to go through a few more posts, but I’ve already called you out, quoted, and refuted you so many times that I think past me can handle. Past!Silver?
You continue to vote for someone you say is town and you ask me to change my thinking?
I'm comfortable with your lynch due to your misrepresentation of other players, your lack of critical thinking, and your refusal to even consider that you're in the wrong. I may want you dead for selfish reasons, but my vote is perfectly justifiable and the fact you refuse to even acknowledge that in order to paint me as being unreasonable is just another nail in the coffin.
Quote from Silver »
Quote from TS »
"TS I'm voting you even though I'm 70% sure you are town because you upset me. Now go ahead and reevaluate yourself and maybe I'll change my mind." You son;t see how bad the things you are doing really are, do you? D_V, Mindreaver and I have all given our reasoning for why HT is scum. You continue to highlight D_V but I mean how much mudslinging and misrepresenting has HT been guilty of?
"For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentional or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping."
Please go through that paragraph and highlight where I said I was voting you because I was upset. I was finally convinced to vote you because I was tilted, sure, but there's plenty good reason here for a vote anyway. Ultimately, I was withholding my vote in spite of the evidence because I knew you were tilted and wanted to give you a chance to dump your reads on the thread and act town. Your choice to attack the person who wasn't even on your wagon led to my vote on you.
You've not done this yet. Is it not a reasonable request?
Quote from Silver »
Quote from TS »
1)Never lynch town reads. This is something no one should have to be told. It's childish, petty, and shows that you stoop to whatever lows you can to try and spite someone. Your only hurting yourself. I can't win alone and I certainly can't lose alone. Killing me just gives you one less "friend" to count on for the next day. SC didn't lose because he got killed, he's still has a potential win because he's town too. We have two players who have already died hoping we do the right thing and I'm here waiting for you to be a grown-up.
You're no town read of mine. Null at best, and the only thing bringing you up that high is my gut feeling that you're town!flailing not scum!flailing.
Also I'm surprised you have the balls to call me childish. I'd do the pot-and-kettle bit again, but you've already worn it out.
Quote from Silver »
Quote from TS »
3)The truth is that you still have a choice. You feel like you shouldn;t be the first one to give but in reality you have to. If you don't then you've lost the only game that really matters. You don;t know what's going on in the lives of others, perhaps people lashed out for other reasons, perhaps they really think you're trying to be malicious. Should your response be "How dare you feel offended and frustrated, die town!"
That's not at all what I said, but it's a brilliant example of a strawman. I gave you a break literally all Day because I wasn't sure if this was just something going on outside the game. I even said that! Check my iso, since I'm sure you won't take my word for it, it was sometime towards the beginning of toDay. But when you chose to attack me in the manner you did, just because I found your play wanting, you squandered the last bit of my goodwill. You also have a choice. You could do as I've asked, and reread those posts, and tell me where you answered my questions before blowing up on me. Page 28, I'm not linking them again.
A strawman, in case you weren't aware, is the proper term for a misrepresentation of a person's logic. Also, I went back to page 28 and stared long and hard into that black abyss. I'm not proud of my conduct on the following pages, but I think I was quite reasonable with you until you started trying to say Mindreaver was the only person besides yourself solving the game. Will you dare to do the same?
Quote from Silver »
Quote from TS »
4)Tom is likely scum as well. A town!crystal who believed so much in HT and was 70% sure on TS would probably be on Tom right now and maybe salvage a sweet catch out of a slog of a day.
This isn't about Tom. It's about your arrogance and blind refusal to consider the amount of effort I've put into this game and the time I spent trying to drag you kicking and screaming into using solid logic and above-the-board tactics. Your continuous refusal to consider my points makes this the correct lynch from a scum hunting point of view. You've done nothing but sling mud at people who are suspicious of you as if we should just blindly accept that you're town. That's... not town. And when put a L-2 and asked to dump your reads into the thread, you chose to give D_V a rainbow list with no explanations and continue to sling mud. In fact, to this very post you have not said why you think I'm aligned with H_T. Is it because I demanded a case on him that wasn't full of falsehoods, meta clashing, and OMGUS? Demanding a higher standard of evidence for a lynch than that isn't unreasonable and isn't indicative of an aligned pair.
Now, as for Tom, he's probably just town. I read his vote in a certain way, but I don't think he wants the thread at large to know about it (and I might be wrong, anyway, I'm totally assuming). I understand that it looks scummy but I think I know what he was doing.
Know who the scum is on these wagons? Shockwave. Seriously. Go look at his votes. Read my case and Mindreaver's points on him. If you want to lynch scum, lynch him. Like, you know, I was trying to do before people decided it was between you and H_T.
What's this? I'm still trying to rally for people to look at Shockwave? Utter madness, since I'm obviously not trying to solve the game.
I’d still rather lynch Shockwave. Between you and H_T though? Absolutely no contest.
Quote from Silver »
Quote from TS »
The day isn't over...but I doubt there are many more chances.
You're the one squandering them, not me. You had a fairly long wagon before I joined it, made up mostly of my town reads. As of right now the only person I'm townreading that isn't on your wagon is Mindreaver. That's not say your entire wagon is town - I'm sure there's scum there, too, by now, or will be by the time you get lynched. But I think Mindreaver is the only town read I have that isn't on your wagon (don't take this 100%, I'm not looking at the wagon right now).
And as far as percentages go... 65-70% town is actually a null read. The chances of any individual player rolling scum at random is between 25 and 33%. Which is 67-75% town. So... yeah. You're trying to paint me as strongly town reading you, and I'm just not.
And here's my refutation of the % town thing. Again. You’re literally making ***** up and/or ignoring half of my post in order to paint me as inconsistent and make yourself look better.
I'm not even going back all the way to where you first blew a gasket, this would be a short novel of your misreps and half-truths. Get lynched. I’m done dealing with you.
Granted I don't really know much about the bulk of the game/even the last few pages, but isn't you accusing Tom after he's double-downing on you a little...OMGUSish? It kinda rubs off to me that way re:#1628
Start back when Tom votes HT. First, try to wrap your brain around why he jumped onto the HT wagon, his reasoning was "the HT wagon looks fun!" VOTE:HT. I pointed it out in the thread. Then when votes were coming my way he jumped onto me.
One of the things that's most well-known about my play-style is that I put a lot of stock in how people interact with me and especially on who scum reads me. This has been hugely successful with me. I'm something like 805 voting scum throughout my games on MTGS and have never lost to a scum team. I'm being results oriented for sure, but it's a method that gives me direction when I play.
I don't want to taint your view on Tom, so please just read it and see what is up. For me to live, people like you have to both 1)be town and 2)see where I'm coming from. If you don't come to similar conclusions to me at this point it's very hard for me to live as there are only a few people who aren't caught up.
Mind pointing out some places where he "howls about how it clears him" for me to look at? Lots easier than going through the entire thread (also MTGS is being super janky and taking minutes to load pages ugh)
@everyoneI've played in about ten games on-site and read through many more and I've yet to see one that I can recall. Does it seem strange that not a single person has mentioned that my ability is very likely for town. And I guess I'm not asking the NGA people as they have no idea about this meta but it's not very likely that scum are going to be given a role like that. Public reveals typically(not always)have a town flavor.
@TS - Was it mod confirmed? All I really got was that you were found drunk. Not necessarily the cause.
If I become the target of a night ability and I'm alive the next day there will be a mod daybreak scene where I do something weird instead of sleep. I have been assured that the scene will not depict me as being scummy or towny, just engaging in some type of strange behavior. The name of my ability is unbalanced.
Anyone can verify this. You want to cop me, great! You will learn my role and trigger a mod day scene with me. You want to roleblock me, awesome! You also trigger the scene, etc.
Frankly, I am probably playing too many games.
But the part about triumphantly screaming that his cut scenes clear him somehow was the important part. That's just not the way town thinks about that role.
Do you have a lot of experience with that role? How do you know how town thinks about that role?
It doesn't make much sense that scum would have mod reveal when they are targeted. Usually, those sort of reveals are for the town. Like Census Takers, Governors (outside of maybe one-shot, this is typically a town role), Gj's reporter role. Tom you are sure posting lazy in all your games these days. I've seen you in no less then three recent games telling people you are being sloppy and not engaging because you are in too many games. If you are over your capacity that's not our problem. You certainly shouldn't be lynching active players who are likely town.
He gets flavor when targeted at night. Flavor part is confirmed, but not what triggers it. And I don't think anyone has claimed to have targeted him
Oh yeah, I remember that now.
That means that his argument is EVEN WORSE because I've literally never seen that role happen in any game. So why shouldn't it be on scum then?
I'm not saying it's 100% townrole, hence why I asked if anyone had seen something like this on scum. This is the 4th such game of a series so it's not hard to imagine that this role might be a recycle. Though I've not read the other games. perhaps the role is new, again that's why I asked.
But you are saying a role could likely be scum just because you've never seen it before. How about 2-shot revive dead town player? If you saw that role for the first time would you say that was a possible scum role? Most of us would logically deduce that it's a town role.
Now mine isn't THAT clear cut by a long shot. I'm just saying your last post doesn't make any sense.
My argument is "even worse" because YOU have never seen the role before?
Quote from CitricBase »
A) Usually on MTGS the default is scum don't have day-chat. Anything in this game that solidly said whether they do or not? Or is there a running assumption of it either way amongst everyone here?
Well, there's three things. I thought possibly that Fable's buddy was actually The Doctor and telling him what his abilities did through scum chat. There's the part where Fable seemed to know about latinum roles in the game (fishing for them, saying power roles were "complicated," etc.) when his character prooobably didn't have a latinum role. I have one and I'm a Ferengi, which makes sense, and Sir Chris was Quark and had 4 bars of latinum when he died so he was most likely one as well. Also, Cythare played in one of the older games and said scum had day chat in it. So they most likely do.
Quote from CitricBase »
B) Weird that Fable didn't have a role flip (did mods anywhere say specifically what Fable's role abilities were or anything?). Pushes me towards thinking there are either some weird roles out there or maybe argues a bit in favor of Borgs due to balance reasons?
col_mongoose and Sir Chris didn't, either. Just their role names -- Fable was a Godmother, SC was an eavesdropper, col_mongoose was a vig-with-a-phaser. And only Fable's is listed the same in the OP as it was in the death scene, which is also odd, but eh.
@Past STMU games info: Got a bit sidetracked when I saw talk of Day Chat being a possibility. Players here have suspected it with Fable's play, but nothing definitive have popped up yet.
On that note in 2 I believe there was a scum DayChat.
ISO saying in it (paraphrasing): "X_X I am totally going to lynched" and the amount of days some conversations stretched on strongly hint to this.
Also, the cat has always been town in the other games.
Yep. I said that. Except statistically a 65-70% chance of town is a null read, and although my gut says you'll flip town, your behavior says otherwise. As I've said over and over again.
Ok silver STOP saying that.
I get what you are trying to get across here, but you are just wrong. It is not a null read a null read would be in the 45-55%. Not 65-70%, that is a town read that means that he has 1/3 chance of being scum and 2/3 chance of being town, that is a town read. You really do not understand what you are saying so just drop it.
This isn't a scum tell this is a "I think I understand statistics but I don't tell" This at this point has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with people using math wrong.
i know its hard to tell with me, but that was actually not sarcasm.
i think we can all agree silver doesnt deserve this treatment.
like, i probably do. im a huge dick. tapping can try to tilt me all he wants.
but silver, borg or not, has been exemplary.
In fairness, Silvercrys is the only toxic element at this point. I've been polite to him and gotten my emotions under control but in his last post he told me to "Get ****ed". "Get bent" "get bent" again, those would be mod-killable offenses in many games. I don't honestly mind them, but they aren't helping.
@Silvercrys-If you are so upset about how you feel you've been treated what gives you the right to treat others that way? I never told you something as bad as "get ****ed". You've taken this to an entirely new level of flaming.
I admit I got pretty emotional and felt very wronged by how you've treated me in thread. But can you really say you aren't acting childish, and spouting personal attacks at this point? You've gone far past anything I've said.
It's like some one pushes you and you pull out a knife and stab them to death. Sure, the person was wrong to push you but that doesn't mean you should become the toxic crusader.
@Past!TS-"Get bent" You flew off the handle with Silvercrystal. I apologize for past Ts's actions. I'm trying not to take the most recent flames personal. Because I have to much work to do today to get bogged down again.
Are you serious? How dare you bring that to bear when there is literally a plethora of other crap TS has brought to bear here that ranges from misrep to outright lying.
And Silver's argument with the stats isn't similar to the argument I was making against Fred. Unlike the whole Fred thing (note: this is pertaining to a game over on NGA concerning three cops claiming, one backing out, and me making an argument that Fred was more than likely scum as opposed to the cop due to the % that he would be the cop compared to scum from a player fingering him with a false scum investigation).
Anyway, prior to Silver even saying anything about his gut feel, there has been numerous actions on TS's part that justify his lynch. More importantly, you've only made what I would consider a small contribution to this whole swamp of sorrow via saying you were, more or less, against lynching TS. Did you even give a reason to your stance? Like examples? Are you of the opinion TS is accurate in all or at least most of what he is saying? What about his opinion on the likes of HT? I'd ask about the opinion on me, but most people have been giving town reads on me despite a lot of the arguments going on (I think one person has nulled me).
@DV: As for Silver, if you're looking at it from his shoes and know what he is trying to get across, then you're misinterpreting him. For him to give that kind of a gut read while asserting that it is null due to every player in the game having those chances to be town isn't unreasonable. Makes perfect sense, and the logic behind it is sound. All you are doing is neglecting the details of his statement and focusing on "town read such and such %" and focusing applying that over a 50/50 razor as opposed to the context Silver is applying it.
Course that's not even the overall issue. Quite literally TS and you are grabbing any small thing stated by those arguing against you and blowing it out of proportions to try and make a point.
Also at the new guy who replaced in. Cin? Crin? I forget the shorthand for your name, but:
1. I find it interesting your immediate thing to do is search back through the thread for instances in Fable's posting (though not all of them) and pull out references that apply to TS.
2. I find it interesting that you town lean on TS despite a lot of the other happenings in the thread.
3. I also find it interesting that you drawing alignment connections from Fable's reactions despite his WIFOM.
I don't have time to do a votecount and write a lynch scene until I'm off work tonight. I believe we're there, but unless Teia has time to do a votecount, we're probably five or six hours away from me being able to take care of it.
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Votecount 2.3 - The Prophets Exist Outside Linear Time, So Be Glad They're Even Numbering This
Silvercrys3467 (1): DoTArchon
Half_Time (2): Mindreaver, TappingStones
TappingStones (7): Wheat_Grinder, Cythare, tomsloger, Half_Time, Brinatoo, Silvercrys3467, KingofDominaria (L-2)
D_V (1): Kosakosa
Not Voting: (5) Killjoy, Necarg, Rhand, Shockwave07, D_V
The lens filter fades, but not before a certain Prophet with a strange aura, whip-like belt a little loose and unfastened on her waist, takes one last look around the station with a smirk uncharacteristic of a timeless immortal being.
Killjoy, Necarg, DoT: if citric comes in and reads/weighs in before you, shame.
So, Citric. How's it going? Tom's pretty much got the gist of it. Fable was accidentally lynched at L-1 so we're being super careful with vote counts now.
Some people have roles that basically function like planeswalkers but with latinum instead of loyalty. I've claimed latinum role but not my abilities. Tom targeted me last night and got blocked, but I didn't do it. TS claimed future-Spock but lied. Which brings me to the GE human triplets:
TS is Jack
Shockwave is Patrick
Necarg is Lauren
They've all claimed no knowledge or connection between their roles (except Necarg, who disappeared), but they all have an interesting, uh, feature. Shockwave has to answer some questions each day with "That's a stupid question." Necarg has to make a sex joke in every post or something. TS gets a mod post about him doing something embarrassing when he gets targeted with an ability.
KoD has some one-shot abilities he hasn't claimed, he used one of them to find out TS's name. He's the one who said TS wasn't Spock.
Mindreaver can double Latinum gains or losses overnight, and has another ability he hasn't claimed but that he targeted DoTA with and it didn't work.
Brinatoo also targeted DoTA with something but was redirected.
H_T says I'm definitely not Borg but won't say why.
Kosa is a Town Borg [redacted] and not a cult. I'll let him claim that if he wants.
Oh, and Fable claimed to be the Emergency Medical Holo (The Doctor) from Voyager with a butt load of anti-cult abilities, but flipped Godmother (Iliana Ghemor, Kira Nerys Impersonator).
I... think that's all the claimed role stuff?
@MR, you asked something along the lines of I thought a scumDV would be more likely to draw attention to himself over a scumTS, but the answer is I don't think either were trying to. TS was very content where he was in the middle ground before KoD caught him in his lie. The problem is from that point on TS was a focusing ground. At that point he can't just step back from the lime light, to get out of it he would have to shift it somewhere else. Enter me and you. With the discussion we were having about TS already there's a bit of a polarity between me and TS. I wouldn't say we are true polar opposites (as in if TS is scum HT has to be town or vice versa), but in a quick view it's probably close enough to get people not looking at him. This is where his misrepping/mudslinging starts. As for DV, I don't see him as expecting people to look into his vote that much, similar to his day 1 kosa vote. But as the day went and both were forced to speak on the matter more they were pushed further into the spotlight rather than being away.
Probably won't be getting back to Tom today since we're already queuing for the show, so if day drags a little more that won't be a problem for me.
Some other things I think you've left out/have wrong: KoD also claimed a block on TS, and Mind never said his target on DoT did not work, but just that DoT claimed to not have anything strange happen last Night and Mind finds that strange.
I also don't remember Necarg claiming Lauren. Idk who or if you assumed such. Is the "triplets" not necessarily they are related to one another but just flavor related? I'm looking at those pages and Sarina is also on there as a GE human.
The other stuff I was just going from memory, didn't want to reread the whole day just for claim stuff. Thanks for the correction though.
So, yeah. If you're just saying you didn't target DoTA, that's fine. I just had it wrong, is all.
Wheat votes him in 1023. I think he believes it.
Also, the part where he says " This attitude of "I'm dying because I actually did stuff" is what has to go" makes sense from a scumhunting perspective. Even if it's not true, Wheat believes it is.
Cythare is still probably town.
Tom's reason is because he knows TS knows his (TS's) meta and is trying to emulate it and is overdoing it.I feel like that's null. While tom knows TS's meta better than I, that's really an easy reason to vote him for scum!tom, but also possibly true for town!tom.
Brina appears to be voting him to test something, and there appears to be a jump in suspicion on him in a short period of time.Also he's doing a lot of trying to figure out mechanics.
Half-time's vote is based off TS's "I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure." being ridiculous. Not a bad reason. I feel like it's less likely from scum than town though.
Silver is voting because he's mad at TS. Null.
KoD is probably also town already.
--------------
So, conclusion. If TS is town, Brina's vote looks the worst, Tom's barely second, Silver is third.
Also, noting that the speed of the wagon was not particularly fast.
@Tom: Careful with that type of thinking (5 scum & 1 Borg too lopsided), thinking like that sunk town in a previous game here, Futurama mafia... Which I was on the losing side of.
(Quick explanation 12 man game. No way town thought there could be 1 neutral & 3 scum. WRONG!!! Town got lazy after the second scum flip.)
@Silver: ...I don't think role reviews are what the new replacement needs. I mean they're helpful, but it doesn't give him a sense of how the game flowed to this point. It's null, and a bad way to get someone up to speed.
@Teia: Psst. Rhand's slot became CriticBase's!
@Critic: 1.5 k is a lot of posts to go through... We do have flips though, and players who could be examined. Pick one and see how they reacted to Scum!Fable, Town!Sir Chris, and Town!Mongoose.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
@Killjoy-What are your impressions of Tom? Specifically, if you don't mind checking him out from the push against Silvercrys as borg late in day one, up to his hop on HT's wagon and then the hop onto my wagon. Am I off to say that he doesn't look particularly good? Interested in your thoughts.
I disagree with KoD not looking bad.
I don't understand how someone parrots attitudes like "Proper play" and then jumps on a lynch that is so emotionally charged.
The math checks out, but the stats are wrong.
Think about it.
You think a good lynch is someone who has at least a 60% chance of being town?
Math wise nobody is a good lynch, you are just miss using statistics here. There are multiple other factors that can be used when assessing players that can add or detract from scumminess or town probability.
But to say that 60% is a null tell is just wrong.
Its like saying you have a 60% chance to kill someone, so I am going to assume you are not. No, I am going to assume that you are.
Tom is so scummy I can't even begin to explain.
Literally say a scum tell then put a check mark on it. Tom fulfills like everything.
There's a divisive dicotomy right now. The people that think HT is scum (Mindreaver, D_V and I) and people who think I am scum. Some people are voting for me currently even though I'm a town read (seemingly based on frustration).
Tom has gotten more looks as my wagon developed and ground to a halt. He jumped onto HT's wagon and then jumped onto mine.
I'd love it if you could take a look at Tom because I think he was pretty sure I'd be dead right now and dropped his guard. Anyway, take a look. A lot of the argument against me was that I was furious and that was off-putting.
I mean, I see what you're saying -- odds are better than a coin flip that he's town. Right? But he's not any more or less likely to be scum than anyone else, which makes it a null read. I'm speaking in relative terms that he's more or less likely to flip scum than others.
Then why say it at all?
It's a little more gross than that. He said 65-70% that I would flip town and that it was also his "gut feeling".
He's letting his emotions totally control him. Just because someone pisses you off doesn't make them scum. In fact, people that piss you off are often town(from my experience). Scum doesn't want to rock the boat and make a bunch of enemies. Town doesn't really think like that. We want to kill the scum before they kill us. The scum have time on their side so they don't play at as frantic a pace as town.
It's very telling that Slivercrys is engaging in logical gymnastics to try and justify his frustration induced mistake. There is no rational argument for his use of math to defend "I'm happy to kill someone that is a gut town read and 70% town". This is fault logic. There is no defense to this.
I don't know that it's scummy, per say but it's an attempt to double down on a mistake. When I put emotion into my posts and rattle cages I get reactions outside of people's comfort zone. In this game, there was gas on the fire and Silvercry and I both let it fly a bit, which is fine. As I said, even good friends and happily married couples say all kind of terrible things to each other. I'm trying to give us the best chance to win as possible and I think the tells from Tom and Silvercry tell us a lot.
HT and Crys are a likely connection if HT is scum. There was also a disturbing quote from Crystal that I'm "probably bussing HT" that means he thinks HT is "probably scum" I can't "bus town!
He also made some comments I don't quite get about if HT flips scum and somehow implying flips mean we should go after D_V.
Troubling stuff. But...I think we are getting somewhere. I'm actually feeling a lot better about today.
Did you ever go back and read what you actually wrote to me like I asked, instead of just assuming you wrote it like you're doing now?
I'm not misrepresenting anythiing. If I am then clearly define it and stop slinging mud.
YOU are misrepresenting and you were called out on it by D_V. Your "math" is a total misrepresentation of what you were saying and doesn't even apply.
You said you want to lynch a 65-70% town read, someone that you have a "gut feeling" is town.
Did you say the above, yes or no?
I'm getting the impression Tom wants to be a lightning rod of sorts for power roles. Taunting Silver, saying scum missed their chance, probably some other hints as well.
Scum reverse psychology? Town wishing to take the heat? I'll even venture out maybe he wants to be targeted: Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
I need to keep reading but guts telling me something's off.
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I have a lot of free time starting after tomorrow basically, so I'll *try* to motivate myself into working through some of the thread.
I don't really get this setup in general. Ex: Borgs, is that a thematic version of Neutral or Serial Killer or something? And I can't even guess what "latinum" is, a form of currency a la platinum?
I'm gonna go read the OP/setup since maybe YOLO'ing doesn't work since it's a specialty
The only feeling that approaches the joy I feel for killing the scum is tilting the scum.
The tilt itself gives them a feeling of being alive in the game, but dead inside.
To let you into my head a bit, when I'm scum hunting it's about pushing buttons and not wanting to die. The best way to find your townmates is to push to kill scum. Your teammates will often find you based on this conviction.
Tom has been hoping from wagon to wagon. If I had done something like TOm did Silvercrys and others would have wrapped the whole thread around arguing "Why did you jump onto the HT wagon when you did? Then onto the other players wagon hoping a hammer would arrive soon?" I would be chastised (rightly so) for that kind of behavior, but since Tom hasn't ruffled Crystal's feathers he's full bore on me.
How dare you get frustrated with me! Die town!- Is that logical? of course not. It's emotional. He has ADMITTED it's emotionally based.
But Tom is the real gem we got out of the last few pages. POE through HT, Tom (potentially silver based on HT), looks like we would get tons of info.
I'll refute this crap if he's somehow town.
I hope it's a better case than "he voted halftime without having read his posts"
Borg: In Star Trek these are part organic part synthetic life forms, absorbing organic life into its collective hive mind. Flavor wise, would make sense for a neutral cult leader to be Borg "recruiting" others into their number. Lesser chance of someone assimilating others abilities, but that's mod game theorizing.
Also there can be possible exceptions to the rule above as 7 of 9, a character of Star Trek Voyager, could make a town former Borg.
Latinum: Main currency (in gold plated form) of Ferengi. We've had one town player turn up dead as a Ferengi (Sir Chris) and one slip that they had Latinum based abilities (Silver). Don't know how many others have Latinum abilities, but that's best left until flips or ability results start hinting something more.
There's bound to be more, but other than a genetically enhanced human circle (Tapping, Necarg(?), and myself), talk of Vulcans (which Tapping faking being Spock wasn't), and a dead Klingon (Mongoose) not much else has popped up yet. And these subjects are not likely to catch scum at the moment.
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thats always nice.
Anyways, Fable stuff is pretty interesting because he's bleeding newb!scum all over. Maybe draw some unalignments for relatively clear!town
Makes me think Kosa is unaligned with Fable
Weak evidence that he's unaligned with TS? Idk, if TS wasn't being run up right now I'd think it's solid but idk
Sir Chris's post involving Fable + KoD makes me think KoD is town
Probs unaligned with Cythare considering his weird attention to him later on too
#75-81 make me really feel like Fable and TS are unaligned, if they're aligned then TS basically wants to just bus and get rid of Fable thinking he's a bad scum-mate? Thoughts anyone else?
Ok, so just going off unalignments. We have Sir Chris flipped so known nonalignment interactions between Fable and Sir Chris as a control. I would hazard that Kosa and Cythare are both unaligned with Fable. I kinda think TS is unaligned with Fable as well, but seems like there's a lot of drama surrounding the scumreads on TS right now so idk. People scum-reading TS, can you look at the quotes/posts I mentioned and thoughts on if you see the unalignment or not?
There's also this borg ?cult? that I saw multiple players mention near D1 end? I've played a lot of games involving cults once upon a time in my earlier mafia days, so if anyone wants to bounce ideas off me on cult stuff feel free. From what I remember, cults usually play out with one of the following:
1) Limited number of conversions leader can make
2) Death of cult leader causes a bunch of cult members to die with the leader
3) Cult members can be de-converted back to normal by certain roles
As ways to balance out having a cult in game, ESPECIALLY with a mafia faction in the game as well
So currently at: Strong-lean-Town Cythare and Kosa, lean-Town TS
Granted I don't really know much about the bulk of the game/even the last few pages, but isn't you accusing Tom after he's double-downing on you a little...OMGUSish? It kinda rubs off to me that way re:#1628
as for ts-fable, its a lot less convincing when you get to TS howling about how it clears him.
makes me think it was intentional.
i may do the same thing tomorrow, but not like that. it was gross.
Also questions I had
A) Usually on MTGS the default is scum don't have day-chat. Anything in this game that solidly said whether they do or not? Or is there a running assumption of it either way amongst everyone here?
B) Weird that Fable didn't have a role flip (did mods anywhere say specifically what Fable's role abilities were or anything?). Pushes me towards thinking there are either some weird roles out there or maybe argues a bit in favor of Borgs due to balance reasons?
but he said multiple times that that and his cut scenes should clear him. really rather insistent on it.
the crux of it for me is his thoughts on silver. theres just no god damn way town can read silver's posts and think hes so terrible/useless that you threaten to take it out on him in future games.
dude is pretty good, even if he is borg.
no reason to suspect day chat, but someone who read/played in the other stmu games may know better.
and the two dead townies didnt flip much info either, so i think thats just a thing.
But fine. For the last time, I will very clearly and explicitly spell out for you what you're misrepresenting. But I won't pretend that I haven't already done this, so below you'll find mostly my earlier responses to things you're still saying. After this, ignore me if you want. I sure as hell won't be responding to your ass. This is absolutely false. Someone who is just as likely as anyone else to be scum is not a town read. Yep. I said that. Except statistically a 65-70% chance of town is a null read, and although my gut says you'll flip town, your behavior says otherwise. As I've said over and over again.
Now, your blatant misrepresentations. Again. Starting with the most recent:<Get absolutely ****ed.> I'm so tired of this, since you've pushed this narrative in like three posts and I've already responded to it. Here, Past!Silver, you handle it. Next some stuff I actually haven't responded to yet. Actually, since it’s my gut saying you’re town, if I let my emotions control me I would’ve unvoted you already. Since I didn’t, I guess you’re wrong. I’m not using statistics to justify the lynch. I’m using statistics to refute the idea you had in #1543 that me saying I’m 65-70% town on you is a town read. It isn’t. That’s ******* null. And I'm fine lynching a null over a lean town, especially one that is as disrespectful and unsportsmanlike as yourself. Get it yet?
The case, for the second time in this post, so you can't say it hasn't been presented (even though I presented it almost a hundred posts ago and you're still trying to play the victim), is this:
"For the record, I want you lynched because you and D_V have completely misrepresented H_T's posts to paint him as inconsistent to get him lynched (intentionally or not), you've had a nuclear meltdown over being suspected that reads like you've been caught for the wrong reasons, and you never cased Half_Time yourself, just /barned Mindreaver's playstyle clash and D_V's mistaken intentions. You don't seem to be thinking critically, which is a huge red flag for me, and your refusal to go back and reevaluate your own play isn't helping."
Please show me where my emotions have played into the case here. Or get bent. Preferably both, so I can accept my failure with the grace you're apparently incapable of showing... and you can still get bent. Past self? Here, I’ll spell it out again for you.
You.
Asked me.
How I would evaluate the game state if Half_Time flips scum.
I said.
IF Half_Time flips scum (YOUR QUESTION), you or D_V is likely to be bussing him due to the aggressiveness you’re using and how badly (especially you) want the credit for catching him.
Because you correctly said that scum are not likely to go after town this aggressively, so I revised my read. If H_T flips town, you’re playing terribly (my opinion) but are probably town. If he flips scum, one of you is probably bussing him. I’ve said this three times now, but you’re literally ignoring my posts (or selectively reading them) so it isn’t surprising that I have to repeat myself.
To reiterate, IF Half_Time somehow gets lynched toDay and FLIPS SCUM, I want to look at you next, then D_V if you flip town. Well, at least one of us is I guess. I was going to go through a few more posts, but I’ve already called you out, quoted, and refuted you so many times that I think past me can handle. Past!Silver? You've not done this yet. Is it not a reasonable request? Also I'm surprised you have the balls to call me childish. I'd do the pot-and-kettle bit again, but you've already worn it out. A strawman, in case you weren't aware, is the proper term for a misrepresentation of a person's logic. Also, I went back to page 28 and stared long and hard into that black abyss. I'm not proud of my conduct on the following pages, but I think I was quite reasonable with you until you started trying to say Mindreaver was the only person besides yourself solving the game. Will you dare to do the same? What's this? I'm still trying to rally for people to look at Shockwave? Utter madness, since I'm obviously not trying to solve the game.
I’d still rather lynch Shockwave. Between you and H_T though? Absolutely no contest. And here's my refutation of the % town thing. Again. You’re literally making ***** up and/or ignoring half of my post in order to paint me as inconsistent and make yourself look better.
I'm not even going back all the way to where you first blew a gasket, this would be a short novel of your misreps and half-truths. Get lynched. I’m done dealing with you.
Start back when Tom votes HT. First, try to wrap your brain around why he jumped onto the HT wagon, his reasoning was "the HT wagon looks fun!" VOTE:HT. I pointed it out in the thread. Then when votes were coming my way he jumped onto me.
One of the things that's most well-known about my play-style is that I put a lot of stock in how people interact with me and especially on who scum reads me. This has been hugely successful with me. I'm something like 805 voting scum throughout my games on MTGS and have never lost to a scum team. I'm being results oriented for sure, but it's a method that gives me direction when I play.
I don't want to taint your view on Tom, so please just read it and see what is up. For me to live, people like you have to both 1)be town and 2)see where I'm coming from. If you don't come to similar conclusions to me at this point it's very hard for me to live as there are only a few people who aren't caught up.
"I want to end the toxicity"
Perma baits Silver.
Well, there's three things. I thought possibly that Fable's buddy was actually The Doctor and telling him what his abilities did through scum chat. There's the part where Fable seemed to know about latinum roles in the game (fishing for them, saying power roles were "complicated," etc.) when his character prooobably didn't have a latinum role. I have one and I'm a Ferengi, which makes sense, and Sir Chris was Quark and had 4 bars of latinum when he died so he was most likely one as well. Also, Cythare played in one of the older games and said scum had day chat in it. So they most likely do.
col_mongoose and Sir Chris didn't, either. Just their role names -- Fable was a Godmother, SC was an eavesdropper, col_mongoose was a vig-with-a-phaser. And only Fable's is listed the same in the OP as it was in the death scene, which is also odd, but eh.
i think we can all agree silver doesnt deserve this treatment.
like, i probably do. im a huge dick. tapping can try to tilt me all he wants.
but silver, borg or not, has been exemplary.
On that note in 2 I believe there was a scum DayChat.
ISO saying in it (paraphrasing): "X_X I am totally going to lynched" and the amount of days some conversations stretched on strongly hint to this.
Also, the cat has always been town in the other games.
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Ok silver STOP saying that.
I get what you are trying to get across here, but you are just wrong. It is not a null read a null read would be in the 45-55%. Not 65-70%, that is a town read that means that he has 1/3 chance of being scum and 2/3 chance of being town, that is a town read. You really do not understand what you are saying so just drop it.
This isn't a scum tell this is a "I think I understand statistics but I don't tell" This at this point has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with people using math wrong.
...I like math, but chances of being scum isn't going to help.
I watched something like this get a cop lynched. Recently.
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In fairness, Silvercrys is the only toxic element at this point. I've been polite to him and gotten my emotions under control but in his last post he told me to "Get ****ed". "Get bent" "get bent" again, those would be mod-killable offenses in many games. I don't honestly mind them, but they aren't helping.
@Silvercrys-If you are so upset about how you feel you've been treated what gives you the right to treat others that way? I never told you something as bad as "get ****ed". You've taken this to an entirely new level of flaming.
I admit I got pretty emotional and felt very wronged by how you've treated me in thread. But can you really say you aren't acting childish, and spouting personal attacks at this point? You've gone far past anything I've said.
It's like some one pushes you and you pull out a knife and stab them to death. Sure, the person was wrong to push you but that doesn't mean you should become the toxic crusader.
Are you serious? How dare you bring that to bear when there is literally a plethora of other crap TS has brought to bear here that ranges from misrep to outright lying.
And Silver's argument with the stats isn't similar to the argument I was making against Fred. Unlike the whole Fred thing (note: this is pertaining to a game over on NGA concerning three cops claiming, one backing out, and me making an argument that Fred was more than likely scum as opposed to the cop due to the % that he would be the cop compared to scum from a player fingering him with a false scum investigation).
Anyway, prior to Silver even saying anything about his gut feel, there has been numerous actions on TS's part that justify his lynch. More importantly, you've only made what I would consider a small contribution to this whole swamp of sorrow via saying you were, more or less, against lynching TS. Did you even give a reason to your stance? Like examples? Are you of the opinion TS is accurate in all or at least most of what he is saying? What about his opinion on the likes of HT? I'd ask about the opinion on me, but most people have been giving town reads on me despite a lot of the arguments going on (I think one person has nulled me).
@DV: As for Silver, if you're looking at it from his shoes and know what he is trying to get across, then you're misinterpreting him. For him to give that kind of a gut read while asserting that it is null due to every player in the game having those chances to be town isn't unreasonable. Makes perfect sense, and the logic behind it is sound. All you are doing is neglecting the details of his statement and focusing on "town read such and such %" and focusing applying that over a 50/50 razor as opposed to the context Silver is applying it.
Course that's not even the overall issue. Quite literally TS and you are grabbing any small thing stated by those arguing against you and blowing it out of proportions to try and make a point.
1. I find it interesting your immediate thing to do is search back through the thread for instances in Fable's posting (though not all of them) and pull out references that apply to TS.
2. I find it interesting that you town lean on TS despite a lot of the other happenings in the thread.
3. I also find it interesting that you drawing alignment connections from Fable's reactions despite his WIFOM.
Why is TS still alive?