How is catching multiple scum by day two bad town play?
You have really burnt bridges with me going forward. I'm getting out of this thread for a bit because I come here to have a good serious game of Mafia and enjoy myself. Watching you stoop to this kind of low to mislynch me is really low Crystal.
It's piss poor town play and bad sportsmanship.
* Cythare throws a large quantity of black balls at TappingStones, takes a tennis racket from a closet, and rips the strings to shreds with her claws. *
If this is Mafia play I also don't approve of that play style. You will not catch breaks with me in the future.
No breaks, remember? We play everybody straight up. And you can't know H_T will flip scum unless you're driving the bus.
@Tom:
Do you think it's a bus? If it is should we lynch H_T first to check? If he's town I don't think TS is scum. It's far to aggressive for a mislynch.
I think we should lynch ts today and worry about halftime later.
The fact that he's sure he's caught multiple scum certainly points to them being aligned. He's way too excited for getting the credit for his fable interactions, so my best guess at this point is TS decided to bus the ***** out of his buddies and try to solo his first scum game.
Even with that, I don't think it's silver, but fable/ht/ts could be a thing.
If this is Mafia play I also don't approve of that play style. You will not catch breaks with me in the future.
No breaks, remember? We play everybody straight up. And you can't know H_T will flip scum unless you're driving the bus.
@Tom:
Do you think it's a bus? If it is should we lynch H_T first to check? If he's town I don't think TS is scum. It's far to aggressive for a mislynch.
You're right. I don't know he'll flip scum but I'm working my butt off to win this one for the town and I think we have scum dead to rights here. I don't mind trading one for one. Like I said. That's a great deal for me to make as town.
@silver, concerning the fable thing, the whole point was the validity of doing such a thing. If I were just going to accept that MR had a valid reason because logic says premises must be true, there'd be no point in talking about it in the first place. As for point one specifically I was talking about MR's notion that Fable would have claimed immediately and not bothered with a fake claim if he had planned to from the start of day. There's no reason to believe that's the case unless you believe fable claimed just to die. But given Fables stated plan was to "mind****" town, I don't see how you can realistically argue that we should pay attention to what Fable was saying while ignoring those specific statements. Dying immediately does very little to further that agenda.
The rest of your post is solid analysis though. Much town points here.
@DV, so no examples then. Cuz, you know, not being from here I don't know DotA's track record. So telling somebody to literally go search every other game on the forum isn't a good way to get your point across. If you want to throw me a game name DotA was actually in though, I'll go read it.
@MR, as I said in my first T/S list, I'm posting strictly from mobile. So if you're waiting for me to throw up a massive quote play by play type post, don't hold your breath. My method is much more simple and just as effective. I go back reread the thread, in context, with information gained at later points in time and make notes as I go. When I post I respond to things that are currently relevant or bring attention to things I want to see more attention on. Since what I'm posting is just my thoughts, my posts don't need to span forty pages to get my points across.
As for my question, I see it as no different than shock asking for help getting to ISO's. Or the numerous people coming back into thread asking if there's anything they need to address specifically. These questions aren't because people are lazy, it's because it helps expedite things, which in turn helps people from falling more behind.
What I was driving at under that wasn't about the game state as a whole but how you assess it specifically. Understanding better how you are assessing things in turn helps me read you better, which in turn leads to seeing better your motivations and a more informed read on your alignment.
TS's motivation is clearly to push the Lynch away from himself since he got caught in a lie. As KoD has pointed out he could be motivated by town reasons, but he could equally be as motivated by scum reasons. His behavior favors the later though. DV's votes today, as with yesterday read opportunistic. It's possible that he's trying to help a scum bro out. It's possible that he's just trying to jump what seems like it'd be an easy Lynch like he did with kosa yesterday. Given the arguments thrown though, I can't fathom a town motivation for him.
I don't particularly see why you feel the need to say you don't like me just because I pointed out inconsistency in your words and behavior. As KoD brushed on this game is a game of behavioral analysis. What you did are the exact things we are supposed to be looking for.
If we removed you from the equation, not much would probably be different. My focus would still be on DV and TS as my top suspects. Other people may be making other cases outside of those, and I'd throw my input on those cases if I had something relevant to say.
What am I convincing you of? That TS is scummy? Since you've stated your suspicious of him as well I'm sure you can see why. That he hasn't addressed the things he dropped yesterday? That he didn't focus on anything else yesterday? Please clarify what you're looking for.
Less of a question, more of a just explain yourself more. Ties in with the above. If you don't validate your points you can't expect them to be taken as valid. Like the Fable points. Silver took a lot of your points as true because logic dictates that premises have to be taken as true. That doesn't show why we should be establishing that premise though. Throwing back to a few paragraphs above doing so helps other people understand you better which helps them read you better.
I think I've already laid out the counter proposal. Specifically where I said if you aren't trying to build a case solely on Fables words then what you're doing is fine. As I said before, if in looking at fables words leads you to suspect somebody, build a case on their words and actions. If it's still a strong case then push, push away. But coming in the thread, saying fable town cleared player X and thinking that's a good enough case to push a vote on isn't going to cut the mustard. What I'm advocating is essentially just cutting out the middle man. Instead of looking through fables WIFOM to find something you think he's either slipped on or is trying to make you think opposite of, I'm saying just look at everybody else first and build your cases there.
Yes, I do care how you spend your time. If you're scum just farting around to seem like you're helping town needs to care. If you're town farting around and not scum hunting, town needs to care. At no point should anybody else not care what everybody else is doing. You don't have to talk about everybody all the time. You don't have to be up in every conversation. Hell you don't even have to care how people are scum hunting. What matters is that you at least care about what they are doing and why they are doing it.
Constant attention? No. But the post you chose to ignore had direct questions in it and wasn't just back and forth reiteration. If you choose not to answer them, that's your prerogative. But don't get butt hurt if people find you suspicious for ignoring things.
I'm encouraging KoD and HT to try and use logic to defend themselves and quit the mudslinging. It's an underhanded way for scum to try and get out from under pressure.
This has got to be the most ridiculous post of the game (yes including fable claiming scum). TS's mudslinging has been pointed out multiple times in his last handful of posts alone and then he comes out with this? Like did you really think telling us your game plan for getting out from being caught in a lie was legit going to work? I'm so done here it's not even funny.
vote: tapping stones
A lot of ***** happened while typing this. I just hit top of 29 gonna post this then play catch up.
@HT - I'll get to that post in a second. Please give me your reads on the motivation behind TS and D_V. I see that you have TS as acting scummy, and D_V for being opportunistic. I see you've also hit on that you don't see anything but scum behaving this way. Can you elaborate.
No, if I was sk I would have shot a lurker and claimed vig. Duh.
Quoted for emphasis. Correct me it I'm wrong but goose died lurker town vig, ja? Since we can reason he probably didn't kill himself and there seems no apparent reason to assume he killed SC, what's to stop us from assuming you didn't kill goose to enact such a plan only to have the misfortune of killing the actual vig?
@MR, as I said in my first T/S list, I'm posting strictly from mobile.
My sympathies. I can only imagine what that must be like, on this site. I'll take that into account I guess. But it's not really the point I was making. I just want evidence that you're actually going back to look. I'm not looking for a "wall of text" "post-splitting" nightmare of a post. Something like "Shockwave said this a while ago... and when taken into account what we know about TS now... <conclusion>. Instead of "This was was just made, and my feels on it are <conclusion>.
As for my question, I see it as no different than shock asking for help getting to ISO's. Or the numerous people coming back into thread asking if there's anything they need to address specifically. These questions aren't because people are lazy, it's because it helps expedite things, which in turn helps people from falling more behind.
Do you not see the difference between "Hey, I was trying to get an ISO and when I do, there isn't pagination, so I only see the top 10. Anybody know a workaround" and "There was a post about what these balls mean, can you point me in the right direction?". One of those implies that there was effort made before the question was asked, and one doesn't. I simply do not like the mindset (from an OOG perspective) of the latter.
What I was driving at under that wasn't about the game state as a whole but how you assess it specifically. Understanding better how you are assessing things in turn helps me read you better, which in turn leads to seeing better your motivations and a more informed read on your alignment.
Okay. Right now, I'm interested in the behavior of TS/D_V on your wagon. I'm interested why Shockwave joined your wagon, and then jumped off. I'm interested in your interpretation of what they mean from an alignment perspective.
TS's motivation is clearly to push the Lynch away from himself since he got caught in a lie. As KoD has pointed out he could be motivated by town reasons, but he could equally be as motivated by scum reasons. His behavior favors the later though. DV's votes today, as with yesterday read opportunistic. It's possible that he's trying to help a scum bro out. It's possible that he's just trying to jump what seems like it'd be an easy Lynch like he did with kosa yesterday. Given the arguments thrown though, I can't fathom a town motivation for him.
This is a start to what I want. What I'm really looking for, is the big picture. Given the way your wagon has developed, describe the scum motivation here. I already breadcrumbed one possible scenario, where scum!me, scum!D_V, and scum!TS are all out to get you. I dismissed it as unlikely. I'm looking for something similar from you.
I don't particularly see why you feel the need to say you don't like me just because I pointed out inconsistency in your words and behavior. As KoD brushed on this game is a game of behavioral analysis. What you did are the exact things we are supposed to be looking for.
That's adding to what I wrote. Somebody told me that scummy :). Anyway, I don't like your playstyle, and I don't appreciate you twisting my words around. I'm unaware of your meta completely, so it's not helping me form an opinion of you as scum or as town. But it is exhausting me, to have to keep re-iterating things, and to keep having to respond. Truly, I just find your play draining. You've also been pretty negative about me, and my thought process, which I can only assume is us just being oil and water.
If we removed you from the equation, not much would probably be different. My focus would still be on DV and TS as my top suspects. Other people may be making other cases outside of those, and I'd throw my input on those cases if I had something relevant to say.
Again, I don't want to put too fine a point on this. But lets say TS and D_V are both mod confirmed scum. How do you read their actions thus far?
Since you've stated your suspicious of him as well I'm sure you can see why. That he hasn't addressed the things he dropped yesterday? That he didn't focus on anything else yesterday? Please clarify what you're looking for.
The problem that a lot of people are pointing out scummy things he's doing. Myself included. I don't disagree there. Show me what the mindset of scum!tapping is doing here. Why is he going after Silver? OMGUS? Why is he on your wagon? Etc. Show me the consequences of a scum!tapping to this world.
I think I've already laid out the counter proposal. Specifically where I said if you aren't trying to build a case solely on Fables words then what you're doing is fine.
As I said before, if in looking at fables words leads you to suspect somebody, build a case on their words and actions. If it's still a strong case then push, push away. But coming in the thread, saying fable town cleared player X and thinking that's a good enough case to push a vote on isn't going to cut the mustard.
What I'm saying is. I haven't done this yet. It's a classic logical fallacy. "You can't have X, because it will naturally lead to Y". When I've never proposed doing Y at all. I think that's the clearest I can be. I haven't used those fable reads for anything, have I? I put them in the thread, because I think there is some value to it. I don't know what that value is yet. If I EVER make an appeal to lynch somebody based solely on that data, then say so. But don't accuse me of doing it, before I've done it.
Yes, I do care how you spend your time. If you're scum just farting around to seem like you're helping town needs to care. If you're town farting around and not scum hunting, town needs to care. At no point should anybody else not care what everybody else is doing. You don't have to talk about everybody all the time. You don't have to be up in every conversation. Hell you don't even have to care how people are scum hunting. What matters is that you at least care about what they are doing and why they are doing it.
I agree with you, especially the bolded part. Which is why I'm curious about your opinions of *why* TS and D_V are doing what they are doing. I hate beating this to death. But instead of "TS is scummy" say "TS is acting this way, and here is why I think he's doing it, and here are the consequences of him being scum right now".
Constant attention? No. But the post you chose to ignore had direct questions in it and wasn't just back and forth reiteration. If you choose not to answer them, that's your prerogative. But don't get butt hurt if people find you suspicious for ignoring things.
I don't even know what I ignored at this point. I'll go re-read after a run.
@MR, I'm not sure what you're asking that I didn't already cover. TS's motivation is clearly to desperately get people to look away from him. This could be town or scum, as pointed out. His behavior is decidedly scum though. He even states why his behavior is decidedly scum in the post I quoted from him. As for DV, blood lust isn't a typically town trait. There's no reason for them to hop onto easy wagons. There's no reason for them to present misrepresentations instead of actual cases. Those things lead to mislynches more often than not so town would be more motivated to slow the pace, get things right, talk things out, make sure they have the facts before trying push a Lynch hard. And when it's pointed out that they are wrong (because towns not going to be perfect; they are going to make mistakes) they are motivated to take those errors into account and reconcile their stance. Scum aren't motivated in that matter because their aim is to secure the mislynch.
I'll come back on the bigger post and following after work.
@MR, I'm not sure what you're asking that I didn't already cover. TS's motivation is clearly to desperately get people to look away from him. This could be town or scum, as pointed out. His behavior is decidedly scum though. He even states why his behavior is decidedly scum in the post I quoted from him. As for DV, blood lust isn't a typically town trait. There's no reason for them to hop onto easy wagons. There's no reason for them to present misrepresentations instead of actual cases. Those things lead to mislynches more often than not so town would be more motivated to slow the pace, get things right, talk things out, make sure they have the facts before trying push a Lynch hard. And when it's pointed out that they are wrong (because towns not going to be perfect; they are going to make mistakes) they are motivated to take those errors into account and reconcile their stance. Scum aren't motivated in that matter because their aim is to secure the mislynch.
I'll come back on the bigger post and following after work.
Sounds good. This is close. I'm not trying to be difficult or vague on purpose. I just don't want to color your answers either.
Let me ask this, and just assume that I'm asking similar questions as well. If TS and D_V are confirmed scum. Where does that leave you? What does that mean for Silver's alignment? Mine? Shockwave's? Tom's? What does the whole look like. I'm interested in what you think the scum's plan is here, and why they are behaving the way that they are. The example I gave you, was that TS/D_V/Mindreaver are all trying to get you mislynched. Meaning, all three of us are scum, and you're town. Is this a likely play for a scumteam? Do you think Silver calling me town, means that he is also in on the plan? That would mean you've caught four scum on D2, and you've lived up to the KoD hype
Now that example was over the top, and a little dramatic. But that's what I'm looking for. Thoughtful analysis of who is doing what, their timing in doing it, and what you think their motivations are. This was a good start, but go deeper please. If TS is deflecting the kill away from himself, how does that affect your read on D_V, or Me for that matter?
I'm looking for less general (scum do *this*, TS did it, he's scum), and more specific (D_V did *this*, which might be scummy in a vacuum , but because of TS's *that*, I think D_V might just be misguided town). I've been working on it for a little bit, and I'd like to share tonight as well. I just want you and KoD to respond first, because I don't agree with your game-state thus far, and I'd like to see the thoughts that have lead you there.
Not Voting: (4) Killjoy, Necarg, Rhand, Shockwave07
Collective To-Do List:
1) Wait as long as we are willing for the lurkers to add their opinions about HT and TS. 4 players- Rhand literally hasn't posted toDay, Necarg is next on not doing anything toDay but posted power outage and delayed a bit, Killjoy is next on adding hardly any content with one post toDay, and finally DoT who has added the most content of the 4 but still has much more to do when compared to literally everyone else in the thread(I'd still like my questions answered).
2) Lynch TS.
3) ?????
4) Profit.
@HT: You and I have different approaches then. While I asked him questions and was met with mostly crickets, you awaited his content and was met with criticism for said action. Differing forms of impatience but the displacement is again strange. I was expecting a bit more than what you were referring to, but with posting on mobile in mind it makes more sense to have it condensed down to that.
Getting to the other stuff later tonight. Before or after pokemanz.
@Kosa: I think you are coasting now that you aren't meeting pressure, if you are actually town now is your time to get to work on adding more to our discussions. Stop doing one-three liners.
@MR, do you often assume that reasonable people believe nobody says what they mean? Your argument is you assume I meant something other than what I actually said yet have provided no reason to assume as much. Tell me again how that makes me the scummy one?
As for Fable, I'd like to hear your fool proof five point plan on determining and verifying the exact point fable decided to umpromptedly claim scum day 1, as well as verification of which posts he made in earnest and which posts he was messing with town.
As for TS, there's a method to my madness. I don't expect you to understand the unspoken things, but as you said yourself you don't have a problem with what I did, but who I did it to. And I have a problem with that.
Let's look at things. I was suspicious of TS yesterday. Fable claimed scum and was obv lynched. SC and goose died in the night as town. So which of these three deaths is supposed to ease my suspicion of TS? What exactly is it that you think I should have seen so as to not still be suspicious of TS?
So this is what I didn't respond to?
Q1: Do I assume reasonable people believe nobody says what they mean?
A: This is mafia. I assume that there is a faction that is lying. So, what is the question here exactly? That I said scum!H_T could present reasonable-sounding arguments? Yeah, scum can.
Q2: Tell me again how that makes me the scummy one?
A: As opposed to me being "the scummy one", I assume? This is a game of deception and detective skills. So who is more scummy to you? The person who says "I don't buy your act, and I think you're not being truthful in the way you're acting, therefore you are scum" or the person who says "I never said explicitly what you are attributing to me, therefore you shouldn't suspect me". I think you're more scummy than I am, if you're looking for a hard answer.
For both of these, what kind of game are you used to? Where the scum never lie, and you don't ever share your opinion unless the scum come out and say "Oh Hai, it's me!" (maybe fable, lol). I read what I read. If it's wrong, we'll figure it out. But saying I can't think that way, or that I'm scummy for thinking that way, isn't something I can understand coming from town.
Then we have some slurs around my ability to analyze fable. But whatever, I moved forward anyway. I don't understand why this part was so aggressive.
Followed by another paragraph where you deride me for "not understanding unspoken things". Which is rich, since your first two questions were about me reading into what you hadn't explicitly spoken about.
Q3: So which of these three deaths is supposed to ease my suspicion of TS?
A: None of them. In fact I'd probably say that, if anything, the SirChris death is another nail in the scum!TS coffin. A scum!TS would have pushed for his death hard. He'll probably agree with me. But you'd have no reason at all to know that.
Q4: What exactly is it that you think I should have seen so as to not still be suspicious of TS?
A: I expected a more unbiased prod to start the day, with the number of lurkers we have. I thought, and still do, that it was odd to tell TS he's on your radar, if you were just waiting for content. When there are many less active posters with cases to look at as well (like KoD VS DoTA or The commentary on Necarg's L-1 vote). In any case, it's not really that important at this point. I think we're going to sort the TS stuff out today one way or another.
One thing I do what to say. Is that it isn't exactly like I was silent on the topic of scum!you. Look at how many posts pass between this one, and your next one where I'm orange (#1193 - 250ish posts later). And in that time, I absolutely was talking about you, and even when I look back I think I was talking about better (harder hitting, and more relevant) questions than these. I do not see how, just because I talked to Silver instead of answering these "questions" is scummy. I would have absolutely talked to you, if you'd shown up in those intervening posts.
@everyone While I remember, when was the last time on this site that a scum player had a mod confirmed ability like mine?
I've played in about ten games on-site and read through many more and I've yet to see one that I can recall. Does it seem strange that not a single person has mentioned that my ability is very likely for town. And I guess I'm not asking the NGA people as they have no idea about this meta but it's not very likely that scum are going to be given a role like that. Public reveals typically(not always)have a town flavor.
Now normally I would say that that is not alignment indicative either. Tapping is omgussy as ****.
But he also knows that's his meta, and I think he's overdoing it
How is catching multiple scum by day two bad town play?
You have really burnt bridges with me going forward. I'm getting out of this thread for a bit because I come here to have a good serious game of Mafia and enjoy myself. Watching you stoop to this kind of low to mislynch me is really low Crystal.
What's wrong, is his latinum awareness is inconsistent, throughout his posts. At least to my reading.
I get that it's on wikipedia. But part of me was just straight up interested as soon as he reacted to Fable mentioning it. If he's not ferengi, I think he knows somebody who is.
@Latinum retort: I felt it was good to stifle Fable's attempt what was likely fishing. Even if dressed in what looked to be a joke.
How did I know of Latinum already (but obviously not perfectly?) Pre-game was talking on NGA (No Goblins Alllowed) about people joining the game. 15377 (Half-Time) mentions Ferengi are essentially space goblins...
I mean, I guess that could be a thing... just stifling any talk of the topic. Except there was literally no claims related to latinum yet. No information at all. My reaction, and yours, was to just ignore it, and maybe see who demonstrated awareness. I just don't know about actively going after it, unless you had inside info.
@Tapping Stones Talk: Right now I'm not willing to vote him. Before him being caught in the situation he is in now I there was enough of a town mindset coming from him that I didn't feel he was worthy of a lynch.
In some ways I still don't.
I am going to be doing some reading, focusing mostly on back before he was caught in his lie.
I'll admit sometimes emotions bleed into our play, as players in general, and it effects how people read us. I think this might be the case here and need to reread to make sure.
-----------
And on another note, I'm actually kind of glad to see people reading the game, catching the small details. I want to at least see where this case on me goes.
@Rhand being replaced: Kind of sad on this one, almost think I'm partly to blame opening up earlier in the game. Was hoping to challenge myself some.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
i still kind of think youre borg but youre playing fine.
i would lynch tapping just for the two posts on this page.
@Tom:
Do you think it's a bus? If it is should we lynch H_T first to check? If he's town I don't think TS is scum. It's far to aggressive for a mislynch.
Tom are you the SK?
The fact that he's sure he's caught multiple scum certainly points to them being aligned. He's way too excited for getting the credit for his fable interactions, so my best guess at this point is TS decided to bus the ***** out of his buddies and try to solo his first scum game.
Even with that, I don't think it's silver, but fable/ht/ts could be a thing.
You're right. I don't know he'll flip scum but I'm working my butt off to win this one for the town and I think we have scum dead to rights here. I don't mind trading one for one. Like I said. That's a great deal for me to make as town.
The rest of your post is solid analysis though. Much town points here.
@DV, so no examples then. Cuz, you know, not being from here I don't know DotA's track record. So telling somebody to literally go search every other game on the forum isn't a good way to get your point across. If you want to throw me a game name DotA was actually in though, I'll go read it.
@MR, as I said in my first T/S list, I'm posting strictly from mobile. So if you're waiting for me to throw up a massive quote play by play type post, don't hold your breath. My method is much more simple and just as effective. I go back reread the thread, in context, with information gained at later points in time and make notes as I go. When I post I respond to things that are currently relevant or bring attention to things I want to see more attention on. Since what I'm posting is just my thoughts, my posts don't need to span forty pages to get my points across.
As for my question, I see it as no different than shock asking for help getting to ISO's. Or the numerous people coming back into thread asking if there's anything they need to address specifically. These questions aren't because people are lazy, it's because it helps expedite things, which in turn helps people from falling more behind.
What I was driving at under that wasn't about the game state as a whole but how you assess it specifically. Understanding better how you are assessing things in turn helps me read you better, which in turn leads to seeing better your motivations and a more informed read on your alignment.
TS's motivation is clearly to push the Lynch away from himself since he got caught in a lie. As KoD has pointed out he could be motivated by town reasons, but he could equally be as motivated by scum reasons. His behavior favors the later though. DV's votes today, as with yesterday read opportunistic. It's possible that he's trying to help a scum bro out. It's possible that he's just trying to jump what seems like it'd be an easy Lynch like he did with kosa yesterday. Given the arguments thrown though, I can't fathom a town motivation for him.
I don't particularly see why you feel the need to say you don't like me just because I pointed out inconsistency in your words and behavior. As KoD brushed on this game is a game of behavioral analysis. What you did are the exact things we are supposed to be looking for.
If we removed you from the equation, not much would probably be different. My focus would still be on DV and TS as my top suspects. Other people may be making other cases outside of those, and I'd throw my input on those cases if I had something relevant to say.
What am I convincing you of? That TS is scummy? Since you've stated your suspicious of him as well I'm sure you can see why. That he hasn't addressed the things he dropped yesterday? That he didn't focus on anything else yesterday? Please clarify what you're looking for.
Less of a question, more of a just explain yourself more. Ties in with the above. If you don't validate your points you can't expect them to be taken as valid. Like the Fable points. Silver took a lot of your points as true because logic dictates that premises have to be taken as true. That doesn't show why we should be establishing that premise though. Throwing back to a few paragraphs above doing so helps other people understand you better which helps them read you better.
I think I've already laid out the counter proposal. Specifically where I said if you aren't trying to build a case solely on Fables words then what you're doing is fine. As I said before, if in looking at fables words leads you to suspect somebody, build a case on their words and actions. If it's still a strong case then push, push away. But coming in the thread, saying fable town cleared player X and thinking that's a good enough case to push a vote on isn't going to cut the mustard. What I'm advocating is essentially just cutting out the middle man. Instead of looking through fables WIFOM to find something you think he's either slipped on or is trying to make you think opposite of, I'm saying just look at everybody else first and build your cases there.
Yes, I do care how you spend your time. If you're scum just farting around to seem like you're helping town needs to care. If you're town farting around and not scum hunting, town needs to care. At no point should anybody else not care what everybody else is doing. You don't have to talk about everybody all the time. You don't have to be up in every conversation. Hell you don't even have to care how people are scum hunting. What matters is that you at least care about what they are doing and why they are doing it.
Constant attention? No. But the post you chose to ignore had direct questions in it and wasn't just back and forth reiteration. If you choose not to answer them, that's your prerogative. But don't get butt hurt if people find you suspicious for ignoring things.
Enough segways,
This has got to be the most ridiculous post of the game (yes including fable claiming scum). TS's mudslinging has been pointed out multiple times in his last handful of posts alone and then he comes out with this? Like did you really think telling us your game plan for getting out from being caught in a lie was legit going to work? I'm so done here it's not even funny.
vote: tapping stones
A lot of ***** happened while typing this. I just hit top of 29 gonna post this then play catch up.
Quoted for emphasis. Correct me it I'm wrong but goose died lurker town vig, ja? Since we can reason he probably didn't kill himself and there seems no apparent reason to assume he killed SC, what's to stop us from assuming you didn't kill goose to enact such a plan only to have the misfortune of killing the actual vig?
Do you not see the difference between "Hey, I was trying to get an ISO and when I do, there isn't pagination, so I only see the top 10. Anybody know a workaround" and "There was a post about what these balls mean, can you point me in the right direction?". One of those implies that there was effort made before the question was asked, and one doesn't. I simply do not like the mindset (from an OOG perspective) of the latter.
Okay. Right now, I'm interested in the behavior of TS/D_V on your wagon. I'm interested why Shockwave joined your wagon, and then jumped off. I'm interested in your interpretation of what they mean from an alignment perspective.
This is a start to what I want. What I'm really looking for, is the big picture. Given the way your wagon has developed, describe the scum motivation here. I already breadcrumbed one possible scenario, where scum!me, scum!D_V, and scum!TS are all out to get you. I dismissed it as unlikely. I'm looking for something similar from you.
That's adding to what I wrote. Somebody told me that scummy :). Anyway, I don't like your playstyle, and I don't appreciate you twisting my words around. I'm unaware of your meta completely, so it's not helping me form an opinion of you as scum or as town. But it is exhausting me, to have to keep re-iterating things, and to keep having to respond. Truly, I just find your play draining. You've also been pretty negative about me, and my thought process, which I can only assume is us just being oil and water.
Again, I don't want to put too fine a point on this. But lets say TS and D_V are both mod confirmed scum. How do you read their actions thus far?
Yes
The problem that a lot of people are pointing out scummy things he's doing. Myself included. I don't disagree there. Show me what the mindset of scum!tapping is doing here. Why is he going after Silver? OMGUS? Why is he on your wagon? Etc. Show me the consequences of a scum!tapping to this world.
Good, then we agree.
What I'm saying is. I haven't done this yet. It's a classic logical fallacy. "You can't have X, because it will naturally lead to Y". When I've never proposed doing Y at all. I think that's the clearest I can be. I haven't used those fable reads for anything, have I? I put them in the thread, because I think there is some value to it. I don't know what that value is yet. If I EVER make an appeal to lynch somebody based solely on that data, then say so. But don't accuse me of doing it, before I've done it.
I agree with you, especially the bolded part. Which is why I'm curious about your opinions of *why* TS and D_V are doing what they are doing. I hate beating this to death. But instead of "TS is scummy" say "TS is acting this way, and here is why I think he's doing it, and here are the consequences of him being scum right now".
I don't even know what I ignored at this point. I'll go re-read after a run.
pretty sure mongoose targeted the wrong person and it killed him.
someone took his gun, and he died. not necessarily in that order, but maybe.
I'll come back on the bigger post and following after work.
Let me ask this, and just assume that I'm asking similar questions as well. If TS and D_V are confirmed scum. Where does that leave you? What does that mean for Silver's alignment? Mine? Shockwave's? Tom's? What does the whole look like. I'm interested in what you think the scum's plan is here, and why they are behaving the way that they are. The example I gave you, was that TS/D_V/Mindreaver are all trying to get you mislynched. Meaning, all three of us are scum, and you're town. Is this a likely play for a scumteam? Do you think Silver calling me town, means that he is also in on the plan? That would mean you've caught four scum on D2, and you've lived up to the KoD hype
Now that example was over the top, and a little dramatic. But that's what I'm looking for. Thoughtful analysis of who is doing what, their timing in doing it, and what you think their motivations are. This was a good start, but go deeper please. If TS is deflecting the kill away from himself, how does that affect your read on D_V, or Me for that matter?
I'm looking for less general (scum do *this*, TS did it, he's scum), and more specific (D_V did *this*, which might be scummy in a vacuum , but because of TS's *that*, I think D_V might just be misguided town). I've been working on it for a little bit, and I'd like to share tonight as well. I just want you and KoD to respond first, because I don't agree with your game-state thus far, and I'd like to see the thoughts that have lead you there.
Well, now that it's highlighted, @H_T - You can look at Silver's #1381 for an example of what I'm looking for.
Easy mode.
I claimed jester one time though
Silvercrys3467 (1): DoTArchon
Half_Time (2): Mindreaver, D_V
Shockwave07 (1): Silvercrys3467
D_V(1): Kosakosa
Killjoy(1): Tappingstones
TappingStones (6): KingofDominaria, Brinatoo, Wheat_Grinder, Cythare, tomsloger, Half_Time (L-3)
Not Voting: (4) Killjoy, Necarg, Rhand, Shockwave07
Collective To-Do List:
1) Wait as long as we are willing for the lurkers to add their opinions about HT and TS. 4 players- Rhand literally hasn't posted toDay, Necarg is next on not doing anything toDay but posted power outage and delayed a bit, Killjoy is next on adding hardly any content with one post toDay, and finally DoT who has added the most content of the 4 but still has much more to do when compared to literally everyone else in the thread(I'd still like my questions answered).
2) Lynch TS.
3) ?????
4) Profit.
@HT: You and I have different approaches then. While I asked him questions and was met with mostly crickets, you awaited his content and was met with criticism for said action. Differing forms of impatience but the displacement is again strange. I was expecting a bit more than what you were referring to, but with posting on mobile in mind it makes more sense to have it condensed down to that.
Getting to the other stuff later tonight. Before or after pokemanz.
@Kosa: I think you are coasting now that you aren't meeting pressure, if you are actually town now is your time to get to work on adding more to our discussions. Stop doing one-three liners.
So this is what I didn't respond to?
Q1: Do I assume reasonable people believe nobody says what they mean?
A: This is mafia. I assume that there is a faction that is lying. So, what is the question here exactly? That I said scum!H_T could present reasonable-sounding arguments? Yeah, scum can.
Q2: Tell me again how that makes me the scummy one?
A: As opposed to me being "the scummy one", I assume? This is a game of deception and detective skills. So who is more scummy to you? The person who says "I don't buy your act, and I think you're not being truthful in the way you're acting, therefore you are scum" or the person who says "I never said explicitly what you are attributing to me, therefore you shouldn't suspect me". I think you're more scummy than I am, if you're looking for a hard answer.
For both of these, what kind of game are you used to? Where the scum never lie, and you don't ever share your opinion unless the scum come out and say "Oh Hai, it's me!" (maybe fable, lol). I read what I read. If it's wrong, we'll figure it out. But saying I can't think that way, or that I'm scummy for thinking that way, isn't something I can understand coming from town.
Then we have some slurs around my ability to analyze fable. But whatever, I moved forward anyway. I don't understand why this part was so aggressive.
Followed by another paragraph where you deride me for "not understanding unspoken things". Which is rich, since your first two questions were about me reading into what you hadn't explicitly spoken about.
Q3: So which of these three deaths is supposed to ease my suspicion of TS?
A: None of them. In fact I'd probably say that, if anything, the SirChris death is another nail in the scum!TS coffin. A scum!TS would have pushed for his death hard. He'll probably agree with me. But you'd have no reason at all to know that.
Q4: What exactly is it that you think I should have seen so as to not still be suspicious of TS?
A: I expected a more unbiased prod to start the day, with the number of lurkers we have. I thought, and still do, that it was odd to tell TS he's on your radar, if you were just waiting for content. When there are many less active posters with cases to look at as well (like KoD VS DoTA or The commentary on Necarg's L-1 vote). In any case, it's not really that important at this point. I think we're going to sort the TS stuff out today one way or another.
One thing I do what to say. Is that it isn't exactly like I was silent on the topic of scum!you. Look at how many posts pass between this one, and your next one where I'm orange (#1193 - 250ish posts later). And in that time, I absolutely was talking about you, and even when I look back I think I was talking about better (harder hitting, and more relevant) questions than these. I do not see how, just because I talked to Silver instead of answering these "questions" is scummy. I would have absolutely talked to you, if you'd shown up in those intervening posts.
Silvercrys3467 (1): DoTArchon
Shockwave07 (1): Silvercrys3467
Half_Time (2): Mindreaver, D_V
TappingStones (6): KingofDominaria, Wheat_Grinder, Cythare, tomsloger, Half_Time, Brinatoo (L-3)
Killjoy (1): TappingStones
D_V (1): Kosakosa
Not Voting: (4) Killjoy, Necarg, Rhand, Shockwave07
A replacement has been contacted, and will replace Rhand when he confirms he's ready to come into the game.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
How are you not dead from ***** like this yet.
Thank god for Tom.
^
And almost immediately after you say that....
Burning bridges is the TappingStones way.
I would like DoTA/Necarg/Shockwave to chime in, at least, before we go through with the lynch.
Should we wait for Rhand's replacement to catch up?
Anyone want to talk about other scumspects?
Hmm. I guess we could start with my analysis of his iso, #1259. His #1310 reads a little oddly but I'm not sure what's wrong with it exactly.
I get that it's on wikipedia. But part of me was just straight up interested as soon as he reacted to Fable mentioning it. If he's not ferengi, I think he knows somebody who is.
I guess no one answers questions in Mafia?
I asked how often Mafia players get mod confirmed abilities like I have? Has it ever happened? If it has, it's rare.
I asked who can show that my interactions with Fable were faked? (Hint-no one can and that's why it hasn't been brought up)
When I flip town lynch HT, when he flips scum lynch Silver.
The way he volunteered how he came by the Ferengi/latinum stuff without prompting is a thing, too. Not a big thing, but still a thing.
On your way out or whatever.
I don't even remember what you claimed - you're acting like you're some sort of untouchable god because you think you have a good claim.
That doesn't make you town, that makes you a *****ty version of iso.
To answer your question directly: I've seen it happen once. Maybe more, but once for sure.
I mean, I guess that could be a thing... just stifling any talk of the topic. Except there was literally no claims related to latinum yet. No information at all. My reaction, and yours, was to just ignore it, and maybe see who demonstrated awareness. I just don't know about actively going after it, unless you had inside info.
In some ways I still don't.
I am going to be doing some reading, focusing mostly on back before he was caught in his lie.
I'll admit sometimes emotions bleed into our play, as players in general, and it effects how people read us. I think this might be the case here and need to reread to make sure.
-----------
And on another note, I'm actually kind of glad to see people reading the game, catching the small details. I want to at least see where this case on me goes.
@Rhand being replaced: Kind of sad on this one, almost think I'm partly to blame opening up earlier in the game. Was hoping to challenge myself some.
Either way hope he's alright.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)