You are still in yellow. If you get to orange I'll post more on you. Until then I want to see what you're about this game. I have two hotter reads at the moment.
@shock: whatever I ever said to you, I'm a gentle person at heart, so it really is all about the game. But I know I can get overwhelming when I think someone is scum.
Questions for Rhand.
What do you mean JD's vote on KOD with an accusation that doesn't mesh? Can you explain what doesn't mesh?
Why is Fable being self consciousness bad? But then what you did with TS not bad?
Why is ok for TS to just have you as possible scum? But you had a problem with it?(I think) Then when he follows up with Luwl what evs. Why drop it and not pursue?
Overall it feels as if you are fishing for someone to vote on.
My vote is good where it is DV. I'm pretty sure Kosa is scum.
What I'm doing with TS is analysing why he has that opinion of me. It's a great hunting tool. That is not at all what Fable was doing. I dropped it because I think TS is town.
Have you read JD's vote post? KOD never did what JD accused him of.
Likely story. I can ask that question and get met with a fishing accusation. Also, if you had any reason beyond it being random, then you would do the townie thing and be forthcoming about it. Given your response to me, I have no better course of action than to assume exactly what I stated. That you, Sir Chris, are clearing someone randomly.
The least you could do is be honest as opposed to knee-jerking by pointing the finger at someone who called it like it was you scum you.
vote: King of Dominaria
This shows an unusual mindset for town to have, caring about the perception of his posts. He avoids asking the question he wants as he fears the pressure of a fishing accusation. This feels like a scum mindset.
Sir Chris I can't help but read your posts in Alan Shaw's voice.
Chris clearing Shockwave for the No Lynch post: I want to go see how he's responded to GJ for doing the same thing in the beginning of games. I don't recall him town clearing based on that before.
I think one of us misread some names here. It wasn't me.
Don't know how I mixed those up, but it does lead to a follow up question, Shockwave confirmed the stupid question comment was a posting restriction. How does that affect your townread of him?
Quote from Sir Chris »
I don't really mind saying why I cleared Shockwave. He disrupted.
jdisawesomesauce (replace out under pressure? Mind brought up some good points against him...)
While I'd hate to think that was the reason he left, I'm a little confused here DoTA. I haven't actually made any good points about JD. So what are you referencing?
It was these posts that stood oit to me:
Quote from Mindreaver »
Quote from Kosakosa »
Why is JD scum?
Meta. He has scumread me every single time, and every single time he is unwavering in that read, and EVERY TIME I'm town. He's just my nemesis, in a non-terrible-star-trek-movie type way.
If it makes you feel better, if he'd prove his town-ness with posting frequency and accurate reads, I'd be open to re-evaluating my completely biased read of him.
Quote from Mindreaver »
JD has had three posts this entire game. The first two are directed at KoD, and the last one was an "Oh Hi Mindreaver, I'm still scumreading you" post. I clearly couldn't possibly deduce his alignment from that. Not from anything, meta or behavior. HOWEVER, we have a history, and I'm being playful with him.
Quote from Mindreaver @ Kosa »
The point i was trying to make about your JD interactions is this. You decided I was scum (post 51, the one where I let the cat out of the bag, evidently). Great. You then glam onto JD with posts in the vein of: "Hey everyone, look at JD, HE gets it, love him". Now what kind of appeal is that? Is it "Look at this evidence I have" or is it more "Guys, I'll like you too if you vote the way I want". Which is a scummy way to push for a lynch. I'm not begging people to join me. They'll see what I see, or not. We've got lots of time.
@Archon looking legit does not have anything to do with fishing for information or trying to open other avenues of discussion. I find your input in nercarg quite intriguing. Also if just bandwagon on someone else wouldn't I get scrutiny anyway?
If you had more content in your posts prior to your vote that looked like you were actively trying to work something out then you wouldn't have to worry about scrutiny, as long as your vote aligned with your reads. In a discussion recently about mafia theory a very strong player gave me some advice: read every post and ask yourself why town would say that. I can't think of a town reason for your Rhand vote.
If the comment was a posting restriction then I obviously have no townread of him based on it. Although probably a townread based on him admitting to that instead of milking my good will.
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I was loosely reading along before replacing in and skipped over most of the rvs-ending Chris/KoD discussion. My first scumread is Kosa for the same post that others are looking at. Subject to change based on a full reread that I'll do right now. Also I will be reading the other 3 games in the series/taking a mentor to help understand Star Trek more. I remember reading the 2nd game when I started out playing mafia and enjoying reading the Spot role and the thought of how devious a scum cat would be. I think it was a town watcher of sorts for Spot in that game and was interesting to see how people were still untrusting of it after they slowly got used to understanding the cat's role.
*steals assorted colored balls of yarn from Cythare to use for later *
Any questions for me from anyone before my initial thoughts become a thing of the past? I've got notes.
My vote is good where it is DV. I'm pretty sure Kosa is scum.
What I'm doing with TS is analysing why he has that opinion of me. It's a great hunting tool. That is not at all what Fable was doing. I dropped it because I think TS is town.
Have you read JD's vote post? KOD never did what JD accused him of.
Brinatoo why did you choose to skip over my discussion with KoD?
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Brinatoo why did you choose to skip over my discussion with KoD?
Because your "clear" wasn't random just not explained in the same post, which would spawn reactions or opinions- which it did. I think the most I got out of that is that the both of you could not be scum together- too risky to start the day out with a conversation like that. If it had been you clearing someone who hadn't posted, then that would be random. While I've got you here, do you know the motivation/purpose of my opening post?
Hmm. For some reason I was under the impression that half the game was totally missing... but going back over the player list only one person hasn't posted at all. Game feels really empty for a 19 man though.
@col_mongoose & Shockwave07:
Could I get your thoughts on Kosa? I'm leaning town on him but I'd like some new opinions on the subject.
@Mod(s): I'm assuming we should request prods after 72 hours (rule 12)? Wasabi_Pea's last post was 4 days ago (and Wheat_Grinder hasn't confirmed yet).
Without having read everything in detail over the past day or so it just seems like a good way to try to get a direct read on a newer player.
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Hmm. For some reason I was under the impression that half the game was totally missing... but going back over the player list only one person hasn't posted at all. Game feels really empty for a 19 man though.
@col_mongoose & Shockwave07:
Could I get your thoughts on Kosa? I'm leaning town on him but I'd like some new opinions on the subject.
@Mod(s): I'm assuming we should request prods after 72 hours (rule 12)? Wasabi_Pea's last post was 4 days ago (and Wheat_Grinder hasn't confirmed yet).
Yeah, I'm likely to move on to a more active site soon, unfortunately. The general attitude here is so whatever. Most of the discussion centers around lurkers, prodding, and people who replacedor VLA
Without having read everything in detail over the past day or so it just seems like a good way to try to get a direct read on a newer player.
Essentially the purpose but here's the specifics, I wanted to see if I could catch Mindreaver not reading the thread with my replacement because on numerous posts he has been in-depth analyzing multiple players. He seemed pretty confident in #141 that my slot was scummy, his response to my question unfortunately wasn't something I was looking for so it's null. Here's my notes pre-reread: On page 2 atm and will try to finish up by tonight after some Overwatch breaks.
Notes:Shortest RVS I’ve ever seen, LUL.
A few people checking in with little to no content.
Barning Chris’s thoughts on KoD and felt a similar feel about Fable. Fables actions reminds me of my OoG thoughts of Spot in the second game.
Wanted to test Mindreaver about his opinion about on me and hoped he wouldn’t notice the replace in and have something indicative of not paying attention to the replace in even though his posts have indicated very strong attacks on others posts meaning a lot of focus on the game and couldn’t overlook a replacement. His response was not something I’d expect if I was in his position but still null, I expected a comment about thinking the slot was scummy because of jd. *Note ColMongoose is the first to requote my replacement and attack Rhand for it, still null but could be buddy protecting Mind and warning him to look at me as jd etc. I know Rhand is typically run up for either alignment.
Didn't Mindreaver say he was mostly joking about scum-reading JD because they scum-read each other in their last game and both got mislynched or something? I'd go back and look but quoting is a pain on mobile.
Like, this stuff about Mindreaver from you and Kosa just makes me go ???
Hmm. For some reason I was under the impression that half the game was totally missing... but going back over the player list only one person hasn't posted at all. Game feels really empty for a 19 man though.
@col_mongoose & Shockwave07:
Could I get your thoughts on Kosa? I'm leaning town on him but I'd like some new opinions on the subject.
@Mod(s): I'm assuming we should request prods after 72 hours (rule 12)? Wasabi_Pea's last post was 4 days ago (and Wheat_Grinder hasn't confirmed yet).
They have been prodded.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Didn't Mindreaver say he was mostly joking about scum-reading JD because they scum-read each other in their last game and both got mislynched or something? I'd go back and look but quoting is a pain on mobile.
Like, this stuff about Mindreaver from you and Kosa just makes me go ???
It looked genuine with referring to RVS ending and was halfmeta/halfnemesis stuff or holding a grudge then backpedaling later starting at #182. He had clear motivation to test the waters with JD and didn't back off of it immediately and slowly described their meta situation. So if he had clear intentions to push on JD, my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd. If something is confusing you, ask for more clarification with specifics, don't just be like ???? wuh
Didn't Mindreaver say he was mostly joking about scum-reading JD because they scum-read each other in their last game and both got mislynched or something? I'd go back and look but quoting is a pain on mobile.
Like, this stuff about Mindreaver from you and Kosa just makes me go ???
It looked genuine with referring to RVS ending and was halfmeta/halfnemesis stuff or holding a grudge then backpedaling later starting at #182. He had clear motivation to test the waters with JD and didn't back off of it immediately and slowly described their meta situation. So if he had clear intentions to push on JD, my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd. If something is confusing you, ask for more clarification with specifics, don't just be like ???? wuh
@Brinatoo-How strong is your read on me? And could you give some example posts showing why you feel that way?
@Silver my thoughts on Kosa are nuetral leaning town, based on how he has been active and had some good input. Also thinking Rhand is Nuetral leaning town.
Although maybe TS deserves another look he's was the one to quick call a scum team after I voted Rhand.
@Silver my thoughts on Kosa are nuetral leaning town, based on how he has been active and had some good input. Also thinking Rhand is Nuetral leaning town.
Although maybe TS deserves another look he's was the one to quick call a scum team after I voted Rhand.
Unvote
Kosa has had good input? Not really. And you don't even address the big case I made against Kosa and try to throw shade against me?
@Brinatoo:
I'm not actually bewildered, I just can't believe your read. Well, whatever. At a desktop now, so...
PBPA: Mindreaver incoming.
Actually, @Everyone if you're scum reading or leaning scum on Mindreaver, just go read his iso. It's pretty short, like a page and a half and mostly quotes. To fetch an iso (for those not used to our forum software), you scroll to the top of the page, click [Search] -> [This Thread] then type Mindreaver's name in the "By Author" field and hit [Search].
Come back and read my thoughts after coming to your own conclusions.
#45 - breadcrumbs he knows what's up with the No Lynch vote.
It's the yankees to my red sox, this guy. The lex luthor to my Superman. The fly in my oatmeal. Coke to my Pepsi. The one, the only, JD.
You were town that game, but misread me so badly, that you speed hammered an innocent man
But I'll let bygones be bygones.
I love that you think me capable of coaching anyone. I literally asked for a mentor this game, and (sad panda) didn't get one. In any case, that post was a little softer than I meant to be. "Knock off the ***** and put your money where your mouth is" wouldn't have come off as coaching, oh well, C'est la vie.
On another topic entirely. Is anyone buying the Necarg posting restriction? I'll admit I'm not the biggest nerd in the thread (most likely), but I also don't remember many alien species who just wanted people "on their dick". Necarg, what's the deal dude?
I mean, he's obviously being tongue-in-cheek with JD here. I can't possibly read this any other way.
Meta. He has scumread me every single time, and every single time he is unwavering in that read, and EVERY TIME I'm town. He's just my nemesis, in a non-terrible-star-trek-movie type way.
If it makes you feel better, if he'd prove his town-ness with posting frequency and accurate reads, I'd be open to re-evaluating my completely biased read of him.
Snipped for length, but like... He's pretty clearly saying "I'm scum reading him because he always scum reads me. This is totally biased and not based on anything he's done this game."
Secondly, I'm not meta-clearing anyone. I'm definitely not meta-clearing somebody on the say-so of somebody else. I don't care if Sir Chis thinks D_V is the swellest guy in the whole wide world, or if JD decides to call everyone in the thread a moron. Show me behavior.
Meta. He has scumread me every single time, and every single time he is unwavering in that read, and EVERY TIME I'm town. He's just my nemesis, in a non-terrible-star-trek-movie type way.
Care to explain?
One is me being very serious, and the other is me being rather silly. I bet you can tell the difference if you put your mind to it.
Then, he says directly his scum read of JD is him being silly. Like, I don't understand how anyone is misconstruing this into anything else. He said it. I mean, you can call him a liar, or say he's "backing off" or whatever, but you're wrong. He never seriously scum read JD and to say otherwise is a straight misrepresentation.
#186 - Now he realizes Kosa isn't going to drop it no matter what he says, and drops it on his own so it doesn't gunk up the thread any further.
The rest is irrelevant (to this, but is still pretty damn town mindset) until DoTA brings it up again...
#230 - he admits again he wasn't making good points against JD.
Like, I'm at the point where I'm going to just start scum reading based on who's scum reading Mind. He's so clearly town that if you read his iso and legitimately think he's scummy you're either scum with an agenda or you're conf biasing because you can't find the actual scum. I'm independently town leaning on Kosa at the moment because of the mindset I think his posts come from but you haven't posted much so I don't know about you yet.
@Brinatoo:
I'm not actually bewildered, I just can't believe your read. Well, whatever. At a desktop now, so...
PBPA: Mindreaver incoming.
Actually, @Everyone if you're scum reading or leaning scum on Mindreaver, just go read his iso. It's pretty short, like a page and a half and mostly quotes. To fetch an iso (for those not used to our forum software), you scroll to the top of the page, click [Search] -> [This Thread] then type Mindreaver's name in the "By Author" field and hit [Search].
Come back and read my thoughts after coming to your own conclusions.
#45 - breadcrumbs he knows what's up with the No Lynch vote.
It's the yankees to my red sox, this guy. The lex luthor to my Superman. The fly in my oatmeal. Coke to my Pepsi. The one, the only, JD.
You were town that game, but misread me so badly, that you speed hammered an innocent man
But I'll let bygones be bygones.
I love that you think me capable of coaching anyone. I literally asked for a mentor this game, and (sad panda) didn't get one. In any case, that post was a little softer than I meant to be. "Knock off the ***** and put your money where your mouth is" wouldn't have come off as coaching, oh well, C'est la vie.
On another topic entirely. Is anyone buying the Necarg posting restriction? I'll admit I'm not the biggest nerd in the thread (most likely), but I also don't remember many alien species who just wanted people "on their dick". Necarg, what's the deal dude?
I mean, he's obviously being tongue-in-cheek with JD here. I can't possibly read this any other way.
Meta. He has scumread me every single time, and every single time he is unwavering in that read, and EVERY TIME I'm town. He's just my nemesis, in a non-terrible-star-trek-movie type way.
If it makes you feel better, if he'd prove his town-ness with posting frequency and accurate reads, I'd be open to re-evaluating my completely biased read of him.
Snipped for length, but like... He's pretty clearly saying "I'm scum reading him because he always scum reads me. This is totally biased and not based on anything he's done this game."
Secondly, I'm not meta-clearing anyone. I'm definitely not meta-clearing somebody on the say-so of somebody else. I don't care if Sir Chis thinks D_V is the swellest guy in the whole wide world, or if JD decides to call everyone in the thread a moron. Show me behavior.
Meta. He has scumread me every single time, and every single time he is unwavering in that read, and EVERY TIME I'm town. He's just my nemesis, in a non-terrible-star-trek-movie type way.
Care to explain?
One is me being very serious, and the other is me being rather silly. I bet you can tell the difference if you put your mind to it.
Then, he says directly his scum read of JD is him being silly. Like, I don't understand how anyone is misconstruing this into anything else. He said it. I mean, you can call him a liar, or say he's "backing off" or whatever, but you're wrong. He never seriously scum read JD and to say otherwise is a straight misrepresentation.
#186 - Now he realizes Kosa isn't going to drop it no matter what he says, and drops it on his own so it doesn't gunk up the thread any further.
The rest is irrelevant (to this, but is still pretty damn town mindset) until DoTA brings it up again...
#230 - he admits again he wasn't making good points against JD.
Like, I'm at the point where I'm going to just start scum reading based on who's scum reading Mind. He's so clearly town that if you read his iso and legitimately think he's scummy you're either scum with an agenda or you're conf biasing because you can't find the actual scum. I'm independently town leaning on Kosa at the moment because of the mindset I think his posts come from but you haven't posted much so I don't know about you yet.
Used all my time collecting thoughts on Mind and formatting quotes so I need to go to bed.
I'll say that I disagree with just about all of his conclusions but his mindset didn't seem scummy to me. More like it was a misunderstanding.
Of course, with two people pushing the obvious mislynch, I might need to reread a little more closely. But that was how he came across to me. I'll iso him tomorrow when I get a chance.
My vote is good where it is DV. I'm pretty sure Kosa is scum.
What I'm doing with TS is analysing why he has that opinion of me. It's a great hunting tool. That is not at all what Fable was doing. I dropped it because I think TS is town.
Have you read JD's vote post? KOD never did what JD accused him of.
Why do you think TS is town?
Because he really sees no harm in putting me in that list without reasoning. A scum would've made something up when pressured on that.
@Silver my thoughts on Kosa are nuetral leaning town, based on how he has been active and had some good input. Also thinking Rhand is Nuetral leaning town.
Although maybe TS deserves another look he's was the one to quick call a scum team after I voted Rhand.
Unvote
Can you walk me through how your read of Rhand went from scum to neutral-lean town?
@Brinatoo-How strong is your read on me? And could you give some example posts showing why you feel that way?
Not strong, I disagree with #76 you saying you need to have interaction with someone to read them as scum. I don't like your line of play towards this no-lynch vote. But I also have no idea what you guys are talking about and esp. why KoD hates it as much as he does and need an explanation on this nolynch meta... and why GJ has been brought up about it? I don't get it but behaviorally on your push you call him out on it, say it wasn't serious but you had the motivation to figure out his line of play... Which is what makes me question your line of play but this just falls back to me being unable to read you. I don't think you would be scumbuddies with Fable after your discussion with them.
@Brinatoo:
I'm not actually bewildered, I just can't believe your read. Well, whatever. At a desktop now, so...
I had no read posted in thread about him, all I said was I trying to figure out if I could trust his push on Kosa since I found Kosa scummy pregame. Noted.
I got to top of page 4 on reread, luckily past most of the quotewalls/major discussions iirc and will finish up tomorrow.
@KoD: can you stop using the acronym wrt followed by to? I didn't know the acronym at first but "with respect/regards to to" had me thinking of a Camouflaged Tutu everytime I came across it and really disrupted my train of thought lol.
@Necarg: can I call you Richard? This reminds me of Austin Powers with the spaceship.
@Brinatoo-How strong is your read on me? And could you give some example posts showing why you feel that way?
Not strong, I disagree with #76 you saying you need to have interaction with someone to read them as scum. I don't like your line of play towards this no-lynch vote. But I also have no idea what you guys are talking about and esp. why KoD hates it as much as he does and need an explanation on this nolynch meta... and why GJ has been brought up about it? I don't get it but behaviorally on your push you call him out on it, say it wasn't serious but you had the motivation to figure out his line of play... Which is what makes me question your line of play but this just falls back to me being unable to read you. I don't think you would be scumbuddies with Fable after your discussion with them.
1)What do you not like about it? I'm against a no-lynch. Are you for it?
2)You have no idea what we are doing. Then why aren't you asking questions? That's a bit strange is it not?
3)What are you questioning about my line of play?
I've got to say I'm very concerned with this reply because there are several weird statements here.
I had no read posted in thread about him, all I said was I trying to figure out if I could trust his push on Kosa since I found Kosa scummy pregame. Noted.
Allow me to return that.
Just because you didn't say "I'm leaning scum on Mindreaver" doesn't mean I can't read between the lines.
What you said when you first came into the thread is fine:
Wanted to test Mindreaver about his opinion about on me and hoped he wouldn’t notice the replace in and have something indicative of not paying attention to the replace in even though his posts have indicated very strong attacks on others posts meaning a lot of focus on the game and couldn’t overlook a replacement. His response was not something I’d expect if I was in his position but still null, I expected a comment about thinking the slot was scummy because of jd.
It looked genuine with referring to RVS ending and was halfmeta/halfnemesis stuff or holding a grudge then backpedaling later starting at #182. He had clear motivation to test the waters with JD and didn't back off of it immediately and slowly described their meta situation. So if he had clear intentions to push on JD, my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd.
Because (to restate) you say his scum read on JD "looked genuine" when it plainly wasn't and then describe his explanation as "backpedaling." Then you say "he had clear motivation to test the waters" but "my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd." Together, this looks like "I'm leaning scum on this guy because he scum read my slot before I replaced in then backpedaled under pressure so maybe he's trying to mislynch Kosa, but then again maybe I can trust him, we'll wait and see."
On top of that, you're noting that I... what exactly? Thought you were scum reading Mindreaver? Shouldn't you be asking why I thought that, since you didn't post your read in thread, instead of just making a note that I did it for later?
Vote: Brinatoo
@TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
@TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
I disagree. And my interpretation is in the thread.
I disagree. And my interpretation is in the thread.
I know, I read your interpretation and disagree with your conclusion. Just like I read Kosa's interpretation of Mindreaver and disagree with his conclusion. I'm not, like, hard-town-reading would-never-lynch-him, but I'm leaning town because he seemed to be questioning motivations and mindset not just posting surface thoughts. Although, on a reread, I did see something curious...
@Kosakosa:
You said Fable was 99% scum with Mind if he flips scum (#121), but told me you were leaning town on Fable (#167). Are just that certain of the Mind/Fable alignment or what?
@TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
I disagree. And my interpretation is in the thread.
Also where are the rest of the players?
Hellooooooooooooooo!
4th of July weekend I assume many people are out, I wouldn't worry about things yet. Yet...
@TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
I disagree. And my interpretation is in the thread.
Also where are the rest of the players?
Hellooooooooooooooo!
4th of July weekend I assume many people are out, I wouldn't worry about things yet. Yet...
I'm flying to HK in a few hours. Hope everyone enjoys their 4th of July!
Due to the US holiday weekend, I suspect we'll be seeing a drop in activity. Any un-responded-to prods will result in replacement in the late evening (after 9pm CST) on Tuesday, July 5.
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Silver, if you're scum you have a scary good scum game
Haha. I think you give me too much credit. It's only my second forum game, though I've played about a dozen face to face games where I got quick-lynched the handful of times I was scum.
Yeah if Silver is scum this isn't an indication of a scary good scum game tbh.
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1)What do you not like about it? I'm against a no-lynch. Are you for it?
2)You have no idea what we are doing. Then why aren't you asking questions? That's a bit strange is it not?
3)What are you questioning about my line of play?
I've got to say I'm very concerned with this reply because there are several weird statements here.
You do things that I would not expect from town. I was hoping you would answer my implied question." and need an explanation on this nolynch meta... and why GJ has been brought up about it?" 1)I don't like how a no-lynch vote and subsequent push on it in rvs would be any different from a vote on a player. It's weird. I am not for an actual no lynch but pushing an rvs vote on it from POV is just some meta crap I've never heard of. Which.... 2)Is why I asked you, or anyone for that matter seems knowledgable about this weird meta if you don't want to answer. I find it strange you overlooked that question. 3)Refer to my previous post and above to figure it out.
Wanted to test Mindreaver about his opinion about on me and hoped he wouldn’t notice the replace in and have something indicative of not paying attention to the replace in even though his posts have indicated very strong attacks on others posts meaning a lot of focus on the game and couldn’t overlook a replacement. His response was not something I’d expect if I was in his position but still null, I expected a comment about thinking the slot was scummy because of jd.
It looked genuine with referring to RVS ending and was halfmeta/halfnemesis stuff or holding a grudge then backpedaling later starting at #182. He had clear motivation to test the waters with JD and didn't back off of it immediately and slowly described their meta situation. So if he had clear intentions to push on JD, my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd.
Because (to restate) you say his scum read on JD "looked genuine" when it plainly wasn't and then describe his explanation as "backpedaling." Then you say "he had clear motivation to test the waters" but "my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd." Together, this looks like "I'm leaning scum on this guy because he scum read my slot before I replaced in then backpedaled under pressure so maybe he's trying to mislynch Kosa, but then again maybe I can trust him, we'll wait and see."
False, a post with a read can not be interpreted as genuine unless aware of the setup/mod given info. I was talking about how I think he was genuine with respect to his tone behind his posts(seems very passionate about his reads and his scumhunting), his actions of attacking and a motivation behind attacking(with jd it would be playful as he says or getting a reaction out of him so he could mislynch who knows). He could absolutely be backpedaling as either alignment too. Backpedaling probably is only used in a negative connotation on here but one can realize their actions are a bit too harsh and fall back from that.
On top of that, you're noting that I... what exactly? Thought you were scum reading Mindreaver? Shouldn't you be asking why I thought that, since you didn't post your read in thread, instead of just making a note that I did it for later? Vote: Brinatoo @TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
Noting you didn't see that post as null and read between the lines to paint me as scummy. Vote Noted. And I thought it was pretty obvious I was null/fence sitting on MR after that post.
I'll be posting my updated reads tonight and probably iso Kosa after July 4th but my read didn't change of them. vote Kosakosa
False, a post with a read can not be interpreted as genuine unless aware of the setup/mod given info.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Could you rephrase?
I was talking about how I think he was genuine with respect to his tone behind his posts(seems very passionate about his reads and his scumhunting), his actions of attacking and a motivation behind attacking (with jd it would be playful as he says or getting a reaction out of him so he could mislynch who knows). He could absolutely be backpedaling as either alignment too. Backpedaling probably is only used in a negative connotation on here but one can realize their actions are a bit too harsh and fall back from that.
Backpedaling has a negative connotation, yes, but irrespective of your specific phrasing you're clearly throwing shade on Mindreaver by basically saying he might be lying about his JD read. You're still doing it. The whole paragraph casts doubt on Mindreaver's narrative of his own actions and then at the end you sort of shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, he's scum reading the same person I am so maybe I can trust him."
I mean, look at that ending part again. You say your first thought was that Kosa was scummy but maybe you can trust Mind's read on him... But the only reason you shouldn't trust his read is if you think he's scum pushing a mislynch. Because otherwise his read is genuine even if he's wrong. So even if you come out of the paragraph sounding null on Mindreaver, the thought had at least crossed your mind that he might be scum pushing a mislynch... but the only thing that fits that narrative is if he was actually testing the waters on JD and not being silly.
You're essentially waffling on whether or not you think he was being serious when he scum read JD and I think it's pretty clear he was being silly. If you think otherwise, say why. Don't just be like "Oh, he might be scum, and if he is he might be pushing Kosa for a mislynch. I better be paranoid." Chances are better than not that any individual player is not-scum, and especially with Mind's behavior there's no reason to throw shade on his read. It's pretty clearly genuine even if it's wrong.
Noting you didn't see that post as null and read between the lines to paint me as scummy. Vote Noted. And I thought it was pretty obvious I was null/fence sitting on MR after that post.
I can't help what I see. You say it was fence-sitting, but it doesn't read that way to me. It reads like throwing shade.
Just to be, like, super duper clearly explicit, this is what I'm seeing:
I'm town!Brinatoo. I replace in for JD and see Mindreaver was "scum reading" him and has already taken some flak from Kosakosa for it. I also think Kosakosa is scum. I ask Mind if he's scum reading me, and he says I haven't done anything yet so he doesn't know. Then, I think to myself "well, he seemed pretty serious about scum reading JD but he says he doesn't know if I'm scum yet. Maybe he's scum pushing a mislynch against the guy I'm independently scum reading."
Except 1) he clearly wasn't being serious about scum reading JD and 2) you already thought Kosa was scum. So this whole train of thought makes no sense. The way it makes sense, of course, is if you're scum. I'm not, like, twisting your words here or misrepping you. I put myself in your shoes, and the train of thought that carried me to your "fence" didn't make sense to me. So I thought to myself "maybe Brinatoo is scum throwing shade. It makes more sense to me than that does."
@Sir Chris:
What're you thinking about Brinatoo right now?
Ok, I've had enough of a short break. I've only been keeping up at a minor pace. The last impression I got from the game overall was that Kosa was generating enough attention on himself for his posts that he's earned some votes. Before I actually delve into anything else, I'm going to fulfill what I said about looking over the cat's posts and feels she has towards players she's indicated. I'll give my general impressions of the players I've had interactions with, but I'll be digging into the thread to see why Cythare feels the way she does about those I have no developed feels on.
First, because I feel it would be better, I'll go through and post about her posts in order.
1st post - Cythare's first post where she indicates possibly being confused by Necarg, warms up to Chris, and has a likely suspicion of me. @Cythare: Was Necar's comment about Chris being genius scum or typical townie which made you look at him weird? That comment was noted as serious by him, so if it wasn't that could you indicate it?
2nd post - Cythare still warms up to Chris while town reading Stones. Also votes Fable. I already have a biased feeling towards Stones given how he reacted to my posts with Chris. His post he made certainly touches up on various topics with his thoughts on them. I can see why you'd town read him. For me specifically, I get hung up on him focusing too heavily on seeing scum motivation for my posts as opposed to any town motivations for doing so (also, I have no idea what RVS stands for, but I assume it's what you guys equate to the joke phase of D1 where everyone is silly just because before the flow switches to being serious). Anyway, I have no feel on him due to me being biased. Being as biased as I am, if I had to read him as town or scum from my interactions with him, then I'd lean more scum on him (again citing his focus on my posts having scum motivation as well as the conversation I had with him later in the thread). As for Fable, he's acted uncharacteristic when he received the attention he did for his posts. It was by the time Necar posted the fourth vote on Fable that I attributed Fable being town and Necar being scum for bandwagoning onto Fable for crap reasons. Course, later on Fable goes on to make (I believe) two more things that I gave him scum points for after clearing him by way of condemning Necar (my vote is still on Necar to the best of my knowledge for his horrible bandwagon vote on Fable). Overall, I'd say I could see Fable as scum, but I can't ignore how easy votes were piling on him (nor could I ignore a vote like Necar's). Without having looked at the latest comments in the thread as of yet, I'd prefer Necar's death to Fable's. I'd like more time to get a read of Fable as I feel some of the posts he's received heat over (his KoD list post and the post about the cat can't be trusted) have a silly quality to them.
3rd post - Cythare warms up to DV. At the beginning of the game's start with all the arguing I was doing with Chris and whoever echoed the points against me, DV was someone that I believe (if I'm recalling correctly -- hold on -- yeah he made a post after your third post that struck home for me) wasn't jumping on me for how easy of a target I was coming off with the fishing stuff (having not asked why). He focused in on Silver and accused him of buddying up to Chris while explaining his reasoning behind the accusation (not in the initial post, but later). This earned a town read from me despite him backing off of Silver later after recognizing, through a response from Silver, that he was jumping to conclusions. I can see why you'd warm up to DV since his post/s are **almost** like Stones's initial post except that DV is more aggressive wrt his focus on Silver.
4th post - Ah, you lightly bat Kosa in the face. I'm going to assume you batting at people or clawing them is a range indicator for how you're viewing what they're saying. For example your dislike of Fable via clawing him would indicate you great disagree/think he's scummy for what he's saying. In Kosa's case, he said something you lightly disagree with (at this point in time). Since this post, Kosa has gotten more attention. One of the posts I passed, and that has been brought up wrt to some people viewing him as scummy for, is the post where he asked about my Major FoS of Chris and if that was still considered scummy or not. Off the top of my head, I forget who brought this to bear. Whoever it was gets town points from me though on pointing it out. I'm not going to read too much into this early post since Kosa is a recent memory for me that I can remember. Plus your views of him might have changed. I will state though that early on (prior to the discussion changing to focus on Kosa), I had no impression of him one way or the other.
5th post - Straightforward post. You, I assume, confirm what Silver said about the Spot role. You respond to Fable with confusion. Over what I'm not sure since I'm only viewing your posts (sec). Ah, because Fable was asking about you aggressively fake claiming as Spot.
6th post - Batting Fable lightly with claws sheathed. Over the fake claiming comment I imagine.
7th post - You show confusion towards Necar. Was this because of Necar unvoting Fable (no reason given that I can see) in post #152? Because that is what drew my immediate attention. Perhaps he did that unvote so he would be viewed for bandwagoning via keeping his vote on Fable with the reasoning he gave in the first place?
8th post - Stones asks for some reads from you, and you provide reads in the form of town reading Chris, myself, and DV. DV I've already addressed. Your town read of Chris I can understand since he's been putting out content/thoughts on various people. I'm still biased with Chris over my initial posts with him (I really felt it was scummy of him say I'm scummy for not asking why, then later go on to give his reasoning for clearing(note I hate this word since we're talking just town reading) Shock despite not having been asked and saying town shouldn't be transparent). My piece being said, I still understand the town read on him (and he's done nothing else that is scummy so points there for him). As for your read of me, I assume it's mostly based off of how I reacted to Chris. That, or it is the general feel of my posts that are giving you a town vibe for me. Fable I've addressed. As for Necar, my thoughts on him are based around his bandwagon vote he made on Fable. Serious question for you since I cleared Fable at one point due to Necar's bandwagon vote: Do you think the two of them could be scum mates together? A gut reaction will suffice since I'm in error for clearing Fable based strictly on Necar's one vote (as noted, I gave scum points later to Fable after having cleared him).
9th post - Ah, I remember conversing with you about this one. You scum read Kosa and give him a red ball of yarn. Then you think about scum reading Mind, but bat the yarn away and meow at me as if asking a question/opinion to which I believe I responded by saying don't base your read off of how I view him but for how he's coming off to you.
10th post - Not sure what the shallow bow of reflective water means for Necar.
11th post - After reviewing my response to you, you appear happy by it, then go on to null read (grey ball of yarn) Mind. By the way, later there is a post where you try to jump into my pocket. I meant you pocketing me though so if you had a pocket and I tried to get into it (due to you reacting kindly to me or going off of what I was saying) is what I meant about me fearing being pocketed by a cat.
12th post - Speak of the devil. Ah, you also town read Mind. My own view of Mind was given in one of the previous posts where you quoted my response to your quizzical meow. For ease of reading (no need to go flipping through), I stated that Mind was giving posts that felt genuine and that I didn't see any agendas to what he was posting about, thus giving me a town read on him.
13th post - You reference Mafia Theory to me (though on what specifically I'm not sure unless it was about pocketing maybe). You also warm up to Rhand since he must be coming off townie. Rhand is someone whose posts I've only glanced at. I saw he was aggressive with someone, but I haven't delved into his posts. I honestly have no read on him at the moment until I read up (I'm almost done with your posts though so I'm going to take a break (as in not come back to this until later)).
14th post - Puss in boots eyes at Fable. Fable is distrustful of you at times (and I commented on how I felt that there is a quality of sillyness to his posts towards you). The only notable exception would be when Fable voted you and stated being interested in seeing how you'd construct a counterargument, but someone (name escapes me atm) jump on Fable for that saying something along the lines of it scummy and what reasonable expectation was there for you, given your role restriction, to argue back. I believe the point was that Fable was going after an easy target.
15th post (final cat post) - On second thought, I'm wrong about that quality of sillyness I kept mentioning. It's one thing to state the cat is trying to play us as I can see that as being silly; however, asking what the scum tell for a cat would be makes for a serious quality to the post. I understand, and fully agree, with the response Mind gave to Fable wrt to that post.
That fulfills my promise to you cat. It also helped as a refresher for me. I'm solid with my feelings on practically all of the players I've mentioned in this post with exception to Fable. My mistake, as I've mentioned above somewhere, was clearing Fable due to Necar. Fable still makes posts that come off as scummy as indicated in the last post I was looking over from yours.
Between the two, Necar and Fable, Fable is consistently coming off scummy whereas Necar mostly posts fluff/pointless stuff with minor things here and there (the biggest of which, to me, is his bandwagon vote on Fable and unvote of Fable with no reason that I found).
The next time I post it'll be to give a summary read of the players from townie to scummy. I'll also dig into other players.
One last thing. You've been coming off as a townie cat. So I shall reward you.
*Pulls out a laser pointer and flashes the light around the cat.*
Isn't FoS'ing without voting a major scumtell? If you aren't Guardman, that is.
Then again, I'm rusty as heck on this.
This is a scumpost. He's hoping that someone else is going to do the dirty work on the fos. vote Kosa
The underestimation of my skills in Mafia as scum is touching. I almost feel ofended. Missed you too
@TappingStones:
Regarding #201: you go on and make your "case" against me. However, the last post you scrutinize is #113. Mind you, I had 5~6 posts after it that you never bothered to comment, but ok, maybe you didn't find something you dislike about those.
But you know what doesn't mesh? Since your scumread on me was formed at and/or before #113, you could have made your case against me in a bunchful of posts.
In #137.
In #146.
In #148.
In #151.
In #158.
In #161.
In #164.
In #166.
That's eight posts. Yet you don't even MENTION my name in ANY of those.
But, conveniently, after Rhand votes me out of nowhere in #194 with very limited reasoning, you go ahead and find an excuse to "read" me as scum in #197.
Isn't FoS'ing without voting a major scumtell? If you aren't Guardman, that is.
Then again, I'm rusty as heck on this.
This is the type of tell I've been trying to look out for in the early game. Someone asks a question in an attempt to create suspicion?
Oh, were you really? The very next post after mine quoted is yours. And you only "notice" the type of tell you were trying to look out for after Rhand makes a point about it? Yeah, sure
TS is textbook opportunistic scum. More votes on him please.
That's like the most omgus vote I've ever seen. Cute.
Lolwat. I'm not saying that he sucks. I'm saying that he waited for a wagon on me to be formed so to jump on it. He posts eight times and doesn't mention me even once, but when Rhand replaces in and votes me with ridiculously limited (read:bad) reasoning, TS does the same on absurd grounds and barns the post that made Rhand vote me despite that post being there for like, ever. He even Silver Rages over it.
His motivations to vote me are completely false. He is scum.
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Fair enough I guess... still weird that you label a list "scum team" with what seems to be a nullread on there.
Questions for Rhand.
What do you mean JD's vote on KOD with an accusation that doesn't mesh? Can you explain what doesn't mesh?
Why is Fable being self consciousness bad? But then what you did with TS not bad?
Why is ok for TS to just have you as possible scum? But you had a problem with it?(I think) Then when he follows up with Luwl what evs. Why drop it and not pursue?
Overall it feels as if you are fishing for someone to vote on.
What I'm doing with TS is analysing why he has that opinion of me. It's a great hunting tool. That is not at all what Fable was doing. I dropped it because I think TS is town.
Have you read JD's vote post? KOD never did what JD accused him of.
The post in question for reference.
It was these posts that stood oit to me:
If you had more content in your posts prior to your vote that looked like you were actively trying to work something out then you wouldn't have to worry about scrutiny, as long as your vote aligned with your reads. In a discussion recently about mafia theory a very strong player gave me some advice: read every post and ask yourself why town would say that. I can't think of a town reason for your Rhand vote.
What about my Necarg comment intrigues you?
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I was loosely reading along before replacing in and skipped over most of the rvs-ending Chris/KoD discussion. My first scumread is Kosa for the same post that others are looking at. Subject to change based on a full reread that I'll do right now. Also I will be reading the other 3 games in the series/taking a mentor to help understand Star Trek more. I remember reading the 2nd game when I started out playing mafia and enjoying reading the Spot role and the thought of how devious a scum cat would be. I think it was a town watcher of sorts for Spot in that game and was interesting to see how people were still untrusting of it after they slowly got used to understanding the cat's role.
*steals assorted colored balls of yarn from Cythare to use for later *
Any questions for me from anyone before my initial thoughts become a thing of the past? I've got notes.
Why do you think TS is town?
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2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@col_mongoose & Shockwave07:
Could I get your thoughts on Kosa? I'm leaning town on him but I'd like some new opinions on the subject.
@Mod(s): I'm assuming we should request prods after 72 hours (rule 12)? Wasabi_Pea's last post was 4 days ago (and Wheat_Grinder hasn't confirmed yet).
Without having read everything in detail over the past day or so it just seems like a good way to try to get a direct read on a newer player.
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I'm likely to move on to a more active site soon, unfortunately. The general attitude here is so whatever. Most of the discussion centers around lurkers, prodding, and people who replacedor VLA
Notes:Shortest RVS I’ve ever seen, LUL.
A few people checking in with little to no content.
Barning Chris’s thoughts on KoD and felt a similar feel about Fable. Fables actions reminds me of my OoG thoughts of Spot in the second game.
Wanted to test Mindreaver about his opinion about on me and hoped he wouldn’t notice the replace in and have something indicative of not paying attention to the replace in even though his posts have indicated very strong attacks on others posts meaning a lot of focus on the game and couldn’t overlook a replacement. His response was not something I’d expect if I was in his position but still null, I expected a comment about thinking the slot was scummy because of jd. *Note ColMongoose is the first to requote my replacement and attack Rhand for it, still null but could be buddy protecting Mind and warning him to look at me as jd etc. I know Rhand is typically run up for either alignment.
Like, this stuff about Mindreaver from you and Kosa just makes me go ???
They have been prodded.
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@Brinatoo-How strong is your read on me? And could you give some example posts showing why you feel that way?
Although maybe TS deserves another look he's was the one to quick call a scum team after I voted Rhand.
Unvote
Kosa has had good input? Not really. And you don't even address the big case I made against Kosa and try to throw shade against me?
I'm not actually bewildered, I just can't believe your read. Well, whatever. At a desktop now, so...
PBPA: Mindreaver incoming.
Actually, @Everyone if you're scum reading or leaning scum on Mindreaver, just go read his iso. It's pretty short, like a page and a half and mostly quotes. To fetch an iso (for those not used to our forum software), you scroll to the top of the page, click [Search] -> [This Thread] then type Mindreaver's name in the "By Author" field and hit [Search].
Come back and read my thoughts after coming to your own conclusions.
#48 - accuses Fable of running to KoD's defense.
#51 - more questioning of Fable, pretty direct, specific questions getting at mindset and motivation.
#56 - Explains the No Lynch for me, wonders why I cared that people took my vote seriously, asks KJ if he wants D_V for a buddy.
I mean, he's obviously being tongue-in-cheek with JD here. I can't possibly read this any other way.
#141 - asks Kosa some questions...
Snipped for length, but like... He's pretty clearly saying "I'm scum reading him because he always scum reads me. This is totally biased and not based on anything he's done this game."
Then, he says directly his scum read of JD is him being silly. Like, I don't understand how anyone is misconstruing this into anything else. He said it. I mean, you can call him a liar, or say he's "backing off" or whatever, but you're wrong. He never seriously scum read JD and to say otherwise is a straight misrepresentation.
#186 - Now he realizes Kosa isn't going to drop it no matter what he says, and drops it on his own so it doesn't gunk up the thread any further.
The rest is irrelevant (to this, but is still pretty damn town mindset) until DoTA brings it up again...
#230 - he admits again he wasn't making good points against JD.
Explain this in detail.
I'll say that I disagree with just about all of his conclusions but his mindset didn't seem scummy to me. More like it was a misunderstanding.
Of course, with two people pushing the obvious mislynch, I might need to reread a little more closely. But that was how he came across to me. I'll iso him tomorrow when I get a chance.
Because he really sees no harm in putting me in that list without reasoning. A scum would've made something up when pressured on that.
I never mentioned Kirk or Necargs' restriction?
Can you walk me through how your read of Rhand went from scum to neutral-lean town?
Post #274 is still waiting for you
I got to top of page 4 on reread, luckily past most of the quotewalls/major discussions iirc and will finish up tomorrow.
@KoD: can you stop using the acronym wrt followed by to? I didn't know the acronym at first but "with respect/regards to to" had me thinking of a Camouflaged Tutu everytime I came across it and really disrupted my train of thought lol.
@Necarg: can I call you Richard? This reminds me of Austin Powers with the spaceship.
1)What do you not like about it? I'm against a no-lynch. Are you for it?
2)You have no idea what we are doing. Then why aren't you asking questions? That's a bit strange is it not?
3)What are you questioning about my line of play?
I've got to say I'm very concerned with this reply because there are several weird statements here.
Just because you didn't say "I'm leaning scum on Mindreaver" doesn't mean I can't read between the lines.
What you said when you first came into the thread is fine: But this doesn't look like a null read to me:
Because (to restate) you say his scum read on JD "looked genuine" when it plainly wasn't and then describe his explanation as "backpedaling." Then you say "he had clear motivation to test the waters" but "my goal is to figure out more about that and it's more interesting if my first thoughts were reading Kosa scummy and if I should trust Mind's read on it, when he also has a line of play to target jd." Together, this looks like "I'm leaning scum on this guy because he scum read my slot before I replaced in then backpedaled under pressure so maybe he's trying to mislynch Kosa, but then again maybe I can trust him, we'll wait and see."
On top of that, you're noting that I... what exactly? Thought you were scum reading Mindreaver? Shouldn't you be asking why I thought that, since you didn't post your read in thread, instead of just making a note that I did it for later?
Vote: Brinatoo
@TappingStones:
I iso'd Kosa and I don't see anything particularly scummy. His first couple posts (including the Sir Chris stuff) were very stream-of-consciousness (as someone else already said) and Kosa/Mind seems town/town to me.
I disagree. And my interpretation is in the thread.
Also where are the rest of the players?
Hellooooooooooooooo!
@Kosakosa:
You said Fable was 99% scum with Mind if he flips scum (#121), but told me you were leaning town on Fable (#167). Are just that certain of the Mind/Fable alignment or what?
I like the pressure on brinatoo.
You didn't answer Dota's question either and I would like to see an answer to that as well.
4th of July weekend I assume many people are out, I wouldn't worry about things yet. Yet...
I'm flying to HK in a few hours. Hope everyone enjoys their 4th of July!
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Thank you.
Silver, if you're scum you have a scary good scum game
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2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Noting you didn't see that post as null and read between the lines to paint me as scummy. Vote Noted. And I thought it was pretty obvious I was null/fence sitting on MR after that post.
I'll be posting my updated reads tonight and probably iso Kosa after July 4th but my read didn't change of them. vote Kosakosa this
Backpedaling has a negative connotation, yes, but irrespective of your specific phrasing you're clearly throwing shade on Mindreaver by basically saying he might be lying about his JD read. You're still doing it. The whole paragraph casts doubt on Mindreaver's narrative of his own actions and then at the end you sort of shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, he's scum reading the same person I am so maybe I can trust him."
I mean, look at that ending part again. You say your first thought was that Kosa was scummy but maybe you can trust Mind's read on him... But the only reason you shouldn't trust his read is if you think he's scum pushing a mislynch. Because otherwise his read is genuine even if he's wrong. So even if you come out of the paragraph sounding null on Mindreaver, the thought had at least crossed your mind that he might be scum pushing a mislynch... but the only thing that fits that narrative is if he was actually testing the waters on JD and not being silly.
You're essentially waffling on whether or not you think he was being serious when he scum read JD and I think it's pretty clear he was being silly. If you think otherwise, say why. Don't just be like "Oh, he might be scum, and if he is he might be pushing Kosa for a mislynch. I better be paranoid." Chances are better than not that any individual player is not-scum, and especially with Mind's behavior there's no reason to throw shade on his read. It's pretty clearly genuine even if it's wrong.
I can't help what I see. You say it was fence-sitting, but it doesn't read that way to me. It reads like throwing shade.
Just to be, like, super duper clearly explicit, this is what I'm seeing:
I'm town!Brinatoo. I replace in for JD and see Mindreaver was "scum reading" him and has already taken some flak from Kosakosa for it. I also think Kosakosa is scum. I ask Mind if he's scum reading me, and he says I haven't done anything yet so he doesn't know. Then, I think to myself "well, he seemed pretty serious about scum reading JD but he says he doesn't know if I'm scum yet. Maybe he's scum pushing a mislynch against the guy I'm independently scum reading."
Except 1) he clearly wasn't being serious about scum reading JD and 2) you already thought Kosa was scum. So this whole train of thought makes no sense. The way it makes sense, of course, is if you're scum. I'm not, like, twisting your words here or misrepping you. I put myself in your shoes, and the train of thought that carried me to your "fence" didn't make sense to me. So I thought to myself "maybe Brinatoo is scum throwing shade. It makes more sense to me than that does."
@Sir Chris:
What're you thinking about Brinatoo right now?
I'm not sure who Brinatoo is yet, but I do have my suspicions.
First, because I feel it would be better, I'll go through and post about her posts in order.
1st post - Cythare's first post where she indicates possibly being confused by Necarg, warms up to Chris, and has a likely suspicion of me. @Cythare: Was Necar's comment about Chris being genius scum or typical townie which made you look at him weird? That comment was noted as serious by him, so if it wasn't that could you indicate it?
2nd post - Cythare still warms up to Chris while town reading Stones. Also votes Fable. I already have a biased feeling towards Stones given how he reacted to my posts with Chris. His post he made certainly touches up on various topics with his thoughts on them. I can see why you'd town read him. For me specifically, I get hung up on him focusing too heavily on seeing scum motivation for my posts as opposed to any town motivations for doing so (also, I have no idea what RVS stands for, but I assume it's what you guys equate to the joke phase of D1 where everyone is silly just because before the flow switches to being serious). Anyway, I have no feel on him due to me being biased. Being as biased as I am, if I had to read him as town or scum from my interactions with him, then I'd lean more scum on him (again citing his focus on my posts having scum motivation as well as the conversation I had with him later in the thread). As for Fable, he's acted uncharacteristic when he received the attention he did for his posts. It was by the time Necar posted the fourth vote on Fable that I attributed Fable being town and Necar being scum for bandwagoning onto Fable for crap reasons. Course, later on Fable goes on to make (I believe) two more things that I gave him scum points for after clearing him by way of condemning Necar (my vote is still on Necar to the best of my knowledge for his horrible bandwagon vote on Fable). Overall, I'd say I could see Fable as scum, but I can't ignore how easy votes were piling on him (nor could I ignore a vote like Necar's). Without having looked at the latest comments in the thread as of yet, I'd prefer Necar's death to Fable's. I'd like more time to get a read of Fable as I feel some of the posts he's received heat over (his KoD list post and the post about the cat can't be trusted) have a silly quality to them.
3rd post - Cythare warms up to DV. At the beginning of the game's start with all the arguing I was doing with Chris and whoever echoed the points against me, DV was someone that I believe (if I'm recalling correctly -- hold on -- yeah he made a post after your third post that struck home for me) wasn't jumping on me for how easy of a target I was coming off with the fishing stuff (having not asked why). He focused in on Silver and accused him of buddying up to Chris while explaining his reasoning behind the accusation (not in the initial post, but later). This earned a town read from me despite him backing off of Silver later after recognizing, through a response from Silver, that he was jumping to conclusions. I can see why you'd warm up to DV since his post/s are **almost** like Stones's initial post except that DV is more aggressive wrt his focus on Silver.
4th post - Ah, you lightly bat Kosa in the face. I'm going to assume you batting at people or clawing them is a range indicator for how you're viewing what they're saying. For example your dislike of Fable via clawing him would indicate you great disagree/think he's scummy for what he's saying. In Kosa's case, he said something you lightly disagree with (at this point in time). Since this post, Kosa has gotten more attention. One of the posts I passed, and that has been brought up wrt to some people viewing him as scummy for, is the post where he asked about my Major FoS of Chris and if that was still considered scummy or not. Off the top of my head, I forget who brought this to bear. Whoever it was gets town points from me though on pointing it out. I'm not going to read too much into this early post since Kosa is a recent memory for me that I can remember. Plus your views of him might have changed. I will state though that early on (prior to the discussion changing to focus on Kosa), I had no impression of him one way or the other.
5th post - Straightforward post. You, I assume, confirm what Silver said about the Spot role. You respond to Fable with confusion. Over what I'm not sure since I'm only viewing your posts (sec). Ah, because Fable was asking about you aggressively fake claiming as Spot.
6th post - Batting Fable lightly with claws sheathed. Over the fake claiming comment I imagine.
7th post - You show confusion towards Necar. Was this because of Necar unvoting Fable (no reason given that I can see) in post #152? Because that is what drew my immediate attention. Perhaps he did that unvote so he would be viewed for bandwagoning via keeping his vote on Fable with the reasoning he gave in the first place?
8th post - Stones asks for some reads from you, and you provide reads in the form of town reading Chris, myself, and DV. DV I've already addressed. Your town read of Chris I can understand since he's been putting out content/thoughts on various people. I'm still biased with Chris over my initial posts with him (I really felt it was scummy of him say I'm scummy for not asking why, then later go on to give his reasoning for clearing(note I hate this word since we're talking just town reading) Shock despite not having been asked and saying town shouldn't be transparent). My piece being said, I still understand the town read on him (and he's done nothing else that is scummy so points there for him). As for your read of me, I assume it's mostly based off of how I reacted to Chris. That, or it is the general feel of my posts that are giving you a town vibe for me. Fable I've addressed. As for Necar, my thoughts on him are based around his bandwagon vote he made on Fable. Serious question for you since I cleared Fable at one point due to Necar's bandwagon vote: Do you think the two of them could be scum mates together? A gut reaction will suffice since I'm in error for clearing Fable based strictly on Necar's one vote (as noted, I gave scum points later to Fable after having cleared him).
9th post - Ah, I remember conversing with you about this one. You scum read Kosa and give him a red ball of yarn. Then you think about scum reading Mind, but bat the yarn away and meow at me as if asking a question/opinion to which I believe I responded by saying don't base your read off of how I view him but for how he's coming off to you.
10th post - Not sure what the shallow bow of reflective water means for Necar.
11th post - After reviewing my response to you, you appear happy by it, then go on to null read (grey ball of yarn) Mind. By the way, later there is a post where you try to jump into my pocket. I meant you pocketing me though so if you had a pocket and I tried to get into it (due to you reacting kindly to me or going off of what I was saying) is what I meant about me fearing being pocketed by a cat.
12th post - Speak of the devil. Ah, you also town read Mind. My own view of Mind was given in one of the previous posts where you quoted my response to your quizzical meow. For ease of reading (no need to go flipping through), I stated that Mind was giving posts that felt genuine and that I didn't see any agendas to what he was posting about, thus giving me a town read on him.
13th post - You reference Mafia Theory to me (though on what specifically I'm not sure unless it was about pocketing maybe). You also warm up to Rhand since he must be coming off townie. Rhand is someone whose posts I've only glanced at. I saw he was aggressive with someone, but I haven't delved into his posts. I honestly have no read on him at the moment until I read up (I'm almost done with your posts though so I'm going to take a break (as in not come back to this until later)).
14th post - Puss in boots eyes at Fable. Fable is distrustful of you at times (and I commented on how I felt that there is a quality of sillyness to his posts towards you). The only notable exception would be when Fable voted you and stated being interested in seeing how you'd construct a counterargument, but someone (name escapes me atm) jump on Fable for that saying something along the lines of it scummy and what reasonable expectation was there for you, given your role restriction, to argue back. I believe the point was that Fable was going after an easy target.
15th post (final cat post) - On second thought, I'm wrong about that quality of sillyness I kept mentioning. It's one thing to state the cat is trying to play us as I can see that as being silly; however, asking what the scum tell for a cat would be makes for a serious quality to the post. I understand, and fully agree, with the response Mind gave to Fable wrt to that post.
That fulfills my promise to you cat. It also helped as a refresher for me. I'm solid with my feelings on practically all of the players I've mentioned in this post with exception to Fable. My mistake, as I've mentioned above somewhere, was clearing Fable due to Necar. Fable still makes posts that come off as scummy as indicated in the last post I was looking over from yours.
Between the two, Necar and Fable, Fable is consistently coming off scummy whereas Necar mostly posts fluff/pointless stuff with minor things here and there (the biggest of which, to me, is his bandwagon vote on Fable and unvote of Fable with no reason that I found).
The next time I post it'll be to give a summary read of the players from townie to scummy. I'll also dig into other players.
One last thing. You've been coming off as a townie cat. So I shall reward you.
*Pulls out a laser pointer and flashes the light around the cat.*
That said, cool. TappingStones is scum.
Unvote
Vote TappingStones
The underestimation of my skills in Mafia as scum is touching. I almost feel ofended. Missed you too
@TappingStones:
Regarding #201: you go on and make your "case" against me. However, the last post you scrutinize is #113. Mind you, I had 5~6 posts after it that you never bothered to comment, but ok, maybe you didn't find something you dislike about those.
But you know what doesn't mesh? Since your scumread on me was formed at and/or before #113, you could have made your case against me in a bunchful of posts.
In #137.
In #146.
In #148.
In #151.
In #158.
In #161.
In #164.
In #166.
That's eight posts. Yet you don't even MENTION my name in ANY of those.
But, conveniently, after Rhand votes me out of nowhere in #194 with very limited reasoning, you go ahead and find an excuse to "read" me as scum in #197.
Oh, were you really? The very next post after mine quoted is yours. And you only "notice" the type of tell you were trying to look out for after Rhand makes a point about it? Yeah, sure
TS is textbook opportunistic scum. More votes on him please.
That's like the most omgus vote I've ever seen. Cute.
Lolwat. I'm not saying that he sucks. I'm saying that he waited for a wagon on me to be formed so to jump on it. He posts eight times and doesn't mention me even once, but when Rhand replaces in and votes me with ridiculously limited (read:bad) reasoning, TS does the same on absurd grounds and barns the post that made Rhand vote me despite that post being there for like, ever. He even Silver Rages over it.
His motivations to vote me are completely false. He is scum.