UPDATE: See #168 for updated data from 2010 to 2020 inclusive.
Introduction
The number of players playing Mafia on MTGS has fallen during recent years, shown primarily through the reduction in the number of games run. By observing and charting this decline, we can attempt to understand why the population has decreased, and facilitate discussion on what can be done to rectify the situation and encourage growth.
The aim of this study is to observe the number of players from 2010 to 2015 inclusive, to discover the extent to which numbers have fallen, when they fell, and to explore changes in the sub-populations of new players, returning players, and active players.
Methods
The total population data for players on the mafia forum consists of the username of everyone who played a game between the years of 2010 and 2015. Within this six year period, data was collected in quarters of three months: the first quarter being January/February/March. A game was categorised into its quarter set based on its recorded start date, derived from the date of the first post in the thread. Replacements were counted the same as players who started the game, even if they replaced during a later quarter.
In addition to the total population, we wished to examine the subpopulations from which it is composed. Each player in the total population data was therefore assigned into one of three populations:
New players (have never played before the quarter)
Returning players (have played before, but not in the previous two quarters)
Active players (have played before, and at least once in the previous two quarters)
The total population data was acquired by manually copying and pasting playerlists into a separate .txt file for each quarter (yes really). This was then stripped of formatting and parsed using a python script into an excel spreadsheet, with each column containing a list of players who played at least one game during each quarter. This total population data was then subdivided into the above sub-populations via another python script, with the resulting numbers of players in each subpopulation for each quarter also present in the spreadsheet. Also included in the spreadsheet is the list of games included in each quarter, as well as a quick-and-dirty count of how many games were played each year. Note that three games were excluded from this analysis: CCMIX, as it was a hydra game, Social Engineering 2, for being a blind game with gimmicks, and Vanilla 2, for having an OP which has been completely mangled.
Results
The resulting total number of players, along with the number of new, active, and returning player who were involved in at least one game each quarter is presented in figure 1 below.
The overall population has fluctuated with no clear trend for most of the time period, before dropping off in 2014, in line with the active and new player sub-populations.
In figure 1, we can see that active players underwent a very gentle decline in numbers until 2014, when the numbers rapidly fell off. During the preceding years, there are clear quarterly alternating peaks and troughs at the same points in each year. A fairly similar response was seen in the number of new players each quarter, which likewise tailed off during 2014. However there was also a large trough in the number of new players during the latter half of 2012. Returning players have maintained reasonably constant level, apart from a dip in 2013Q1. They only fell off marginally in 2014, and in fact rose slightly towards the end of the year and into 2015.
Discussion
This report aimed to observe the number of players, by quarter, from 2010 to 2015overall and by subpopulation. It found a large decrease in player numbers, as well as other fluctuations in the player-base.
Active players
The active player-base was mostly stable between 2011 to 2014, undergoing only a gentle decline. The alternative peaks and troughs suggest seasonal ebbs and flows in player numbers, supporting anecdotal observations. 2014 saw a gigantic contraction of the active player base, which is most likely attributable to the change in forum software under Curse ownership, which was widely decried at the time as being unsuitable for Mafia. Going into 2015, this decline levelled off and the population stabilised, helped perhaps in part by technological improvements at the start of 2015 (such as the increased post per page count). There was a worrying dip in 2015Q3 in overall player numbers, but they immediately bounced back, possibly suggesting that the current player-base has stabilised sufficiently for the seasonal changes in demand to return.
New players
New player rates have seen large fluctuations, although with consistent peak heights. The drop in new players in 2012Q3 is difficult to explain: the summer of 2012 saw a huge amount of site-wide drama focusing on the closure of the Gutter and associated user bans. This did affect the number of active players (the cyclical trough in 2012Q3 is larger than previous drops) as some players were banned or voluntarily left the site, although it is unclear how site drama would impact new players: perhaps users were driven away from the site, or the drama monopolised attention of otherwise potential new players.
The number of new players seems to start to recover in 2014Q1 before following declining in the rest of the year. Worryingly, new players are still in decline, possibly due to a lack of new-player friendly sign-ups.
The main area of interest revealed through this data was 2014, as the decline from 2014 to present day has been more severe than any other and shows no sign of recovery. While I have been unable to find a full timeline for when events occurred, the transition to Curse happened around this time. This came with the change in forum software, which public opinion was incredibly negative of (and not without reason). However, a number of positive changes were made in first half of 2015 (such as the increase in posts per page), which helped to stabilise the player base to an extent by making the site more mafia-friendly.
Returning players
Returning players have stayed fairly constant and less subject to the whims of seasonal demand than active and new players. They were also only very gently affected by the exodus in 2014, and have actually shown an increase since the end of 2014 (although this tailed off right at the end of 2015). This provides some hope that Curse has improved sufficiently that some players pushed away by it might be returning.
All three populations showed a trough in 2013Q1. Although this is in line with a seasonal in active players, it is very unusual behaviour for returning players. At the end of 2012, MTGS was first sold to Curse, which could have put off potential returning players. In addition, the forum struggled with a handful of large games which took a while to fire, which led to the fusing of Normals with the League.
Limitations
There are a number of limitations with the data collection methodology. Primarily, no provision has been made for the same player using a different name. This means that each different name is counted as a separate player, which includes:
Misspellings
Abbreviations
Name Changes
Gimmicks
In each of these cases, the different name appears as a completely separate player, which causes inflation in the population, and subpopulations that may skew the results. The situation is very solvable, but is likely to be labour intensive, as it would require collecting the variations by hand before combining them.
Conclusion
In conclusion, player numbers have fallen dramatically from 2010 to the end of 2015. Prior to 2014, decline was very gradual, with a series of peaks and troughs and active player numbers maintained a healthy cycle. However, the move to Curse and change in forum software in 2014 had a dramatic impact on the player base, and although this seems to be stabilising, there have been no signs of recovery, with the numbers of all three groups remaining low.
Given the current situation, it is imperative that we, as a forum, group together to work out what can be done to increase player numbers. The most important area to focus on is new players: their numbers have fallen incredibly - to only three new players in 2015Q4 - and appear to show no obvious signs of recovery. Although the number of returning players has remained fairly consistent, we should be looking to grow their number as well, primarily by trying to bring back the large number of players that left during 2014. Key to any growth strategy is ensuring that new and returning players can be converted into active players, which are the most important overall demographic to the continued health of the site.
I am seeking Constructive criticism around methods used. Do people think that grouping the data in 3 month blocks is correct? Are the sub-population definitions correct? What other information would you like to look at (and feel free to use the data to run your own analysis). Also looking for volunteers to add 2016Q1 and Q2, as well as to help sanitise the data to remove some of the limitations and to improve data quality. Post here or PM if you want to help!
Most importantly, how do we fix the situation? Some ideas:
Are there any more technical changes from Curse that would improve our quality of life?
Could we advertise on MTGS? For example, write articles that would appear on the main homepage.
We could advertise on Mafia Universe, as our site offers a very different niche of slow-paced, heavy analysis games.
Reconnect with other, smaller communities, such as DiesToRemoval, and any other splinter groups with Mafia players.
Use social media, such as twitter, to announce signups. Even better if we can get the main MTGS twitter involved.
Produce a surevy for the current playerbase to accurately capture preferences around game types and sizes,
I think that your methodology is fair, though it wouldn't hurt to also ask the admins about the number of active users on MTGS prior to and following the Curse buyout. The problem simply might be a lack of people on MTGS in general!
Second quarter is when people are out of school, and given that a large number of our populace has at some point been actively involved in schooling, it makes sense that we'd see an increase in players during those periods.
I agree that the Curse buyout and site drama was largely responsible for the initial decline of our playerbase, though I also feel that in recent years, the subforum has become a lot more toxic. I did a lot during my tenure as an MTGS Mod to foster a less hostile environment to the best of my ability, and I hope to continue to do so as a Councillor. In general, though, it feels like we've had a big shift in our culture since the days of yore. It feels like there are a large number of green players (2 years or less) in the sub, and that may be what's responsible for this alleged shift of mentality.
Curse has definitely rolled out a lot of improvements that we specifically requested, which was quite generous of them. Even though there are obvious issues with the software, it's probably honestly about where vBulletin was, back in the day.
Another issue I foresee is people who explicitly post from their mobile devices. Curse's mobile interface is godawful, and the advertisements make it extremely difficult to actually get a post in. I've brought this up to Curse before, and they said that all we can do is report offensive ads and hope they go away. (I personally use adblock for the matter, though having been given a Curse Premium account for being on staff was also extremely helpful.)
To answer some specifics:
* I would very much like it if Curse fixed the Search function for the website. I can't think of anything else software-related at the moment.
* Yes, MTGS is always looking for new content for its articles. I tried writing one but was basically told that it wasn't long enough for them to publish (along with a few other issues, but I think the primary one was length). So if you want the Mafia sub to get some free publicity, anyone, feel free to submit your content!
* Advertising games on MafiaUniverse seems like a good idea. We could probably encourage our players to sign up for games there, as well, so it's not a totally one-sided thing.
* If we could get the MTGS Twitter involved, that could be good. Otherwise, I think the people who already care about new game sign-ups are already checking the sub regularly.
* Survey sounds good. Who should we have type it up?
* Mass invite might help the people who are on the fence about returning. I personally tried this a couple of years back to attempt to get the old vets back in the fray, but only a few showed up for a brief stay and most of the others said they just didn't have the time for it any more.
I do agree that we need to find a way to lure new players in and keep them here.
Forever.
-
Anyway, thanks for doing this collection and analysis, Eco! I'm sure it was time-consuming.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hmm, I think its important to note that there's actually two very different types of new players:
1. Players new to forum mafia
2. Players new to MTGS
I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to do the work to separate those in the data set, but the things needed to cater to those two groups are completely different, so it definitely would be useful to know.
I think that your methodology is fair, though it wouldn't hurt to also ask the admins about the number of active users on MTGS prior to and following the Curse buyout. The problem simply might be a lack of people on MTGS in general!
I have actually done this, in December of 2015. It's hard for them to tell precisely given the volume of spam accounts, but the long and short of it is MTGS has recovered to pre-Curse levels. One would have expected our player numbers to recover in line with MTGS numbers, and that they haven't (even given the sub-forum's elevation to being at the top level and not under forum games) is very troubling.
Quote from Iso »
I agree that the Curse buyout and site drama was largely responsible for the initial decline of our playerbase, though I also feel that in recent years, the subforum has become a lot more toxic. I did a lot during my tenure as an MTGS Mod to foster a less hostile environment to the best of my ability, and I hope to continue to do so as a Councillor. In general, though, it feels like we've had a big shift in our culture since the days of yore. It feels like there are a large number of green players (2 years or less) in the sub, and that may be what's responsible for this alleged shift of mentality.
This is certainly an opinion I've heard before. Although "toxicity" is pretty hard to measure (number of reports or infractions/warnings given?) it is something that should be addressed: but how? Stricter moderation for flaming/trolling?
Quote from Iso »
Curse has definitely rolled out a lot of improvements that we specifically requested, which was quite generous of them. Even though there are obvious issues with the software, it's probably honestly about where vBulletin was, back in the day.
I think I'd broadly agree, so maybe we need to track down people who left because of the interface change and let them know things are better now.
Quote from Iso »
Another issue I foresee is people who explicitly post from their mobile devices. Curse's mobile interface is godawful, and the advertisements make it extremely difficult to actually get a post in. I've brought this up to Curse before, and they said that all we can do is report offensive ads and hope they go away. (I personally use adblock for the matter, though having been given a Curse Premium account for being on staff was also extremely helpful.)
I've not used it myself, but ad-block seems like a solution at least. It's very unfortunate that more can't be done.
Quote from Iso »
To answer some specifics:
* I would very much like it if Curse fixed the Search function for the website. I can't think of anything else software-related at the moment.
That's a good start. Since you are familiar with the issue, could you take it up? I think you'd be best off posting in community discussion, or maybe PM'ing Feyd an admin (I think Feyd_Ruin is the tech guy) directly.
Quote from Iso »
* Yes, MTGS is always looking for new content for its articles. I tried writing one but was basically told that it wasn't long enough for them to publish (along with a few other issues, but I think the primary one was length). So if you want the Mafia sub to get some free publicity, anyone, feel free to submit your content!
That's great, I think an "Introduction to Mafia" article would be the best idea, and we do have a bunch of more in depth articles already written in the sub. How long were they looking for?
Quote from Iso »
* Advertising games on MafiaUniverse seems like a good idea. We could probably encourage our players to sign up for games there, as well, so it's not a totally one-sided thing.
Absolutely. This cross-over that's being organised with the Total War forum is a great first step in that too.
Quote from Iso »
* If we could get the MTGS Twitter involved, that could be good. Otherwise, I think the people who already care about new game sign-ups are already checking the sub regularly.
Agreed, especially if the MafiaScum twitter is any indication. The MTGS twitter has 15K followers, imagine if even 1% cared about Mafia! It looks mostly automated, but it does at least tweet articles when they go out.
Quote from Iso »
* Survey sounds good. Who should we have type it up?
If we can agree on the areas we want it to cover, I can work on it. I know someone who works in research and has a lot of experience writing effective surveys.
Quote from Iso »
* Mass invite might help the people who are on the fence about returning. I personally tried this a couple of years back to attempt to get the old vets back in the fray, but only a few showed up for a brief stay and most of the others said they just didn't have the time for it any more.
If we can at least find out why they left, we can look at fixing their problems. I wouldn't expect many of them to come back, but we lost so many so quickly surely some must still be interested.
Hmm, I think its important to note that there's actually two very different types of new players:
1. Players new to forum mafia
2. Players new to MTGS
I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to do the work to separate those in the data set, but the things needed to cater to those two groups are completely different, so it definitely would be useful to know.
That's actually a very good point. Separating the two groups would be time consuming, but I think it has a lot of value.
I'll poke Feyd on the search function; from what I recall, it was largely on the backburner.
With regards to toxicity, I think hosts should start liberally handing out modkills for toxic and disruptive behavior. Since you can sit out a week with 3 infractions, most players just don't seem to care about the site rules and just do what they will. Additionally, there seem to be a lot of people who really toe the line, and/or are just insufferable about the matter. Since suspensions don't seem to get the message across, I imagine players will stop acting this way if they simply are removed from the games they do it in.
I'm not exactly sure what the length requirement is, but using the other articles that are published as a baseline would probably be a safe bet.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Definitely interesting data, more in-depth discussion later. I too am interested to know if overall site traffic decline is what our primary problem is; how well the site has been doing on membership since the Curse takeover.
Is there any way we could copy any of the other functionality that Mafia Universe's software offers for Mafia, such as the multi-ISO feature available from in-thread, or the automatic vote-count bot?
You might also create some system for helping brand new players learn the game and have veteran players know who is new, etc. I remember through my first two or three games people would just tell me I'm a bad player over and over again, even though I was playing just fine for an absolute rookie. It could easily discourage players.
I think you also have to consider the time controls as well. People come here hoping to play Mafia and learn the game but then they sit for two weeks with half of the players VLA or just not participating. It's boring. People likely get curious of others sites and notice the faster paces of other sites and just leave without ever looking back.
I don't think there's particularly strong analysis going on just because of the long time controls either (as was supposed). Usually lurkers end up getting lynched quite a bit, which oddly enough often ends up being scum here.
I love playing here, I love the community, I love the style, I love the games.
I recently went away because I dialed back my game-playing for a little while, then made a return because I'd been skimming some games here and were interested in a few of the players, had tons of fun with a couple of games that I've played, then left because navigating Curse took far too long and was far too frustrating for me to be able to reread games in the depth that I like to when I'm playing games with normal paces, and now will happily return again now that I've installed Ad Block Plus and posting on this site is no longer annoying as hell.
I love playing here, I love the community, I love the style, I love the games.
I recently went away because I dialed back my game-playing for a little while, then made a return because I'd been skimming some games here and were interested in a few of the players, had tons of fun with a couple of games that I've played, then left because navigating Curse took far too long and was far too frustrating for me to be able to reread games in the depth that I like to when I'm playing games with normal paces, and now will happily return again now that I've installed Ad Block Plus and posting on this site is no longer annoying as hell.
One of the big things I think might deter some people is the game length. There's a few games I've played in/am currently playing in where maybe 1/8th of the game is posting daily, and maybe 1/2 every other day. It makes it difficult to really go anywhere or do anything, and results in a lot of people just lurking and posting <20 posts after days of gameplay.
At the same time, having long games is really nice because you aren't forced to constantly be playing mafia, whereas with faster games you have to dedicate a more definite block of time to playing. Some kind of mid point would be nice.
IMO, a possible reason why there are so few newbies is because they don't know where to begin (all of our game types seem to cater to experienced players, even our Normals and Micros). For all we know, we could have scared dozens of potential new players away simply because they didn't dare sign-up for Star Trek (a game described as highly complex), or Mind Screw (descriptive title is descriptive), or an open set-up Micro that seemed more like a puzzle game, or a League game, etc. All in all there haven't been many games recently that newcomers, who neither know how well they will fare nor if they will even enjoy Mafia, could feel safe about signing up to.
This could be a good time therefore to reintroduce the original 7-players Newb games, with simplistic set-ups and one or two experienced players to act as guides (like in the mafiascum system) (on top of the mentor system for those who want). First, a game titled Newb has the advantage of having a clear target demographic. Second, we'll see later if we need more than 7 player slots; for now we clearly don't. Third, allowing newcomers to get their feet wet in the baby pool first will allow a smoother introduction to our grumpy players who don't like newbies, when the time comes.
Publishing an "Introduction to MTGS Mafia" article also sounds like a good idea.
Seconding this.
When I first started playing mafia here, there were endless basics to sign up for, all with very clear and simple rules/roles. There was also a mentor system, because I definitely remember being mentored (maybe more than once even). I definitely agree that if I was trying to join now, I really wouldn't know where to start, and would probably just be confused.
I think we probably need to bring our "welcome new players" thread back down into the main section of the forum somehow too. The problem was that it was combined with our rules thread, I believe, and the Curse types wanted all the rules in an announcement at the top.
But there's really not much of a chance that new players perusing the forum are going to notice it when they scan through, looking for a thread to sign up. I'm guessing we're not getting any mentor requests or player contact list requests ever since we got switched to that system.
It also appears that we don't have any signups available at the moment? Which is another thing we have to avoid at all costs. The new player contact list was supposed to be our backup for that eventuality, so we need to either duplicate the rules thread and move it down, or just split the content. Mods?
I don't know if curse is to blame 100%. The UI does seem worse though.
I think some of the questions that need to be asked is how did we all end up here in the first place. IE how did we as new players make it to this site.
We should also look at what creates higher retention rates of newer and older players.
One thing I could note is many of my games here have felt significantly less active by our player base, this could be a variable that matters. Overall I would describe this to me as feeling like I am watching the the player base die off. This might be because I come from the before curse days and so I am just used to something largely different.
One large reason we might have lost a lot of players is age and other such things. I am not certain but my assumption among the players that left is that they are of the same age categories and other new life events might have taken precedence over playing mafia. Then again it could just be curse.
But to me the most important thing to understand is where our new player base comes from. I would argue additionally that understanding how our active player base came to this site is the priority since it feels like a safe bet that if we could cater to that crowd we might obtain a higher retention rate of players.
Edit: Also I wouldn't be too concerned with the validity of the data. Player base numbers are down this is indisputable.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, speaking as one of those new players... I'm came here for Magic information first (been lurking MTGS for years looking at primers and what not) and accidentally stumbled on to the Mafia subforum. I had some experience playing face-to-face and figured I'd give it a shot. Not sure how you'd really target the "Magic players who also play Mafia" population besides what's already been suggested like tweets from the MTGS account and articles on the main site page.
I love playing here, I love the community, I love the style, I love the games.
I recently went away because I dialed back my game-playing for a little while, then made a return because I'd been skimming some games here and were interested in a few of the players, had tons of fun with a couple of games that I've played, then left because navigating Curse took far too long and was far too frustrating for me to be able to reread games in the depth that I like to when I'm playing games with normal paces, and now will happily return again now that I've installed Ad Block Plus and posting on this site is no longer annoying as hell.
Nacho we need you back man!
I will happily return in full force the next time there's a game in signups that isn't large and bastard/rolemadness/ridiculous!
Well, speaking as one of those new players... I'm came here for Magic information first (been lurking MTGS for years looking at primers and what not) and accidentally stumbled on to the Mafia subforum. I had some experience playing face-to-face and figured I'd give it a shot. Not sure how you'd really target the "Magic players who also play Mafia" population besides what's already been suggested like tweets from the MTGS account and articles on the main site page.
This was my experience as well. Except I had never played mafia as well just stumbled upon it and it looked like fun. I am just curious how many is like that vs other ways.
Az, currently, Rax's game is in sign-ups - why do you think we don't have any sign-ups open?
D'oh.
Should we perhaps have color code for signup threads, not just the game types? We definitely want to make sure those stick out.
I used to just not prefix my sign-up threads with anything so we knew it wasn't a game (despite "sign-ups" being in the thread title) but then everyone started doing it so I also did it for more visibility for my sign-up threads.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, speaking as one of those new players... I'm came here for Magic information first (been lurking MTGS for years looking at primers and what not) and accidentally stumbled on to the Mafia subforum. I had some experience playing face-to-face and figured I'd give it a shot. Not sure how you'd really target the "Magic players who also play Mafia" population besides what's already been suggested like tweets from the MTGS account and articles on the main site page.
Same thing for me.
I got here because I wanted to up my Lorwyn game. Then I got too good and upped my win rate in limited format to something absurdly high like 90%, and that's when I lost interest in Magic -- I started playing like a Spike, which made playing against Timmy and Johnny a snore (but a friendly snore!), and sheer frustration when dealing with the attitude of other Spikes.
So I looked around to see if there was anything else for me, and then I discovered the Mafia subforum.
I also imagine Jace talks in an Australian accent like Jeice from DBZ.
The data absolutely supports the theory that Curse is to blame for the massive drop in player numbers. However, since then, user numbers for the site as a whole has recovered to pre-curse levels. That our user base has not recovered at all alongside suggests that either MTGS users are no longer the types of person who might be interested in Mafia (which seems unlikely), these users look only at very narrow sections of the site and would miss the Mafia sub (which can be addressed via advertising both in front page articles and even sig space), or that our sub forum has become less welcoming to new players. This last point is clearly very important to investigate. It could well be related to the movement of the sticky, which has now been addressed. While we stopped running Basics in response to the fall in new players, the total absence of new-player friendly signups cannot make it easy for new players to get involved. I agree with ZDS that we should re-introduce Basics, whether they be 7, 9, or 12 players, and probably on a rolling signup (like people want Micros to be), and with Mentoring heavily encouraged. This doesn't need to be done right away since Star Trek only just fired, but it should at the very least come out alongside any article we publish.
With respect to that article, Talore says the content team are on the fence about publishing non-MTG articles, and have asked for a first draft/pilot to help them decide. Is there anyone who wants to step up and help out by writing something? I'm happy to help out/proof read/bounce ideas off, but I'm somewhat articled out right now.
The data absolutely supports the theory that Curse is to blame for the massive drop in player numbers. However, since then, user numbers for the site as a whole has recovered to pre-curse levels. That our user base has not recovered at all alongside suggests that either MTGS users are no longer the types of person who might be interested in Mafia (which seems unlikely), these users look only at very narrow sections of the site and would miss the Mafia sub (which can be addressed via advertising both in front page articles and even sig space), or that our sub forum has become less welcoming to new players. This last point is clearly very important to investigate. It could well be related to the movement of the sticky, which has now been addressed. While we stopped running Basics in response to the fall in new players, the total absence of new-player friendly signups cannot make it easy for new players to get involved. I agree with ZDS that we should re-introduce Basics, whether they be 7, 9, or 12 players, and probably on a rolling signup (like people want Micros to be), and with Mentoring heavily encouraged. This doesn't need to be done right away since Star Trek only just fired, but it should at the very least come out alongside any article we publish.
With respect to that article, Talore says the content team are on the fence about publishing non-MTG articles, and have asked for a first draft/pilot to help them decide. Is there anyone who wants to step up and help out by writing something? I'm happy to help out/proof read/bounce ideas off, but I'm somewhat articled out right now.
Supports the theory yes, but it is a correlation at best and in my opinion there are many other factors that could be at play. Curse could have just been the catalyst that provoked many more of these reasons.
It looks though as if the number of new players a quarter has also dropped dramatically as well, this could be another reason that the player base is so much smaller.
Can we get some data on when basics were introduced and retired, and see if that indicates there is a correlation there?
It's a tad hard for me to accept that that's the cause, as the forum's most rapid and healthy periods of growth existed without the benefit of any basics, or really much in the way of classifications at all.
Come to think of it, the successful model from that period was that there were no distinguishing markings or brandings to the games whatsoever, or any rival queues, size related or otherwise. You signed up to host a game, and when your turn came, you ran what you liked. Added some nice variety and unpredictability, I suppose. The queues may make things a little too homogenized, perhaps.
EDIT: There's no doubt in my mind that Curse was to blame for the dropoff - many of the people who left around that time specifically said that was the reason.
Can we get some data on when basics were introduced and retired, and see if that indicates there is a correlation there?
It's a tad hard for me to accept that that's the cause, as the forum's most rapid and healthy periods of growth existed without the benefit of any basics, or really much in the way of classifications at all.
Come to think of it, the successful model from that period was that there were no distinguishing markings or brandings to the games whatsoever, or any rival queues, size related or otherwise. You signed up to host a game, and when your turn came, you ran what you liked. Added some nice variety and unpredictability, I suppose. The queues may make things a little too homogenized, perhaps.
EDIT: There's no doubt in my mind that Curse was to blame for the dropoff - many of the people who left around that time specifically said that was the reason.
There is a large dip of new players in 2014. I don't know if it is statically significant but I would argue that you have no new players replacing anyone who left / returned. While there were players that left there was significantly less players replacing them. I would argue that even though you did lose players from the shift, the larger problem is that you had no players replacing this core group of players. Your base to lean on was significantly cut down for what ever reason. No new players/low retention means that when a player leaves it hurts the community as a whole since we lose one and never gain it back. It may be that higher numbers attract more players and this might be impossible to combat.
I think player retention rates of new players is something we should see if we can data mine. That would lead to some of the biggest information that we could glean.
The last basic we fired was August 2014, which is about quarter 3.5 on the chart. It doesn't appear to have had any negative noticeable effect - not longer afterwards, we actually saw a very slight increase in activity.
I do think that the spikes in quarter 2 that you saw in prior periods are pretty telling. That says to me that people played more in the summer - when they had more time away from school. So there are also some age demographics at work, here. The average age of magic players has also increased greatly, and I suspect we're less likely to see those older players commit to learning to play a new and unfamiliar game when they have work and family obligations in the mix, and our returning contingent faces the same challenges.
I suppose it's quite possible that changes in MTG economics have priced most teenagers and college students out of the game, and in turn, a sizable portion of our new player recruiting base with it.
Regardless, there must be some solutions out there.
As someone who spends time on multiple sites, that maybe harder said than done.
But I feel this much is important, we were all drawn to this site by an interest in MTG, not mafia, same thing with me when I played my first on the now taken down WoTC site. I spent time on other parts of the site, you make the card, deck building, story, before being invited into my first mafia game by Zinger.
I think that part helped me to return to this now, I was invited into the game. Can't do that without some effort.
Not talking spam PM boxes, but a signature banner for games you're in might help...
Unless you're on mobile all the time. I nearly forgot I had mine.
Can we get some data on when basics were introduced and retired, and see if that indicates there is a correlation there?
It's a tad hard for me to accept that that's the cause, as the forum's most rapid and healthy periods of growth existed without the benefit of any basics, or really much in the way of classifications at all.
Come to think of it, the successful model from that period was that there were no distinguishing markings or brandings to the games whatsoever, or any rival queues, size related or otherwise. You signed up to host a game, and when your turn came, you ran what you liked. Added some nice variety and unpredictability, I suppose. The queues may make things a little too homogenized, perhaps.
EDIT: There's no doubt in my mind that Curse was to blame for the dropoff - many of the people who left around that time specifically said that was the reason.
So what you're saying is, the data may support a size-based queue vs. a complexity-based queue? ;p
As someone who spends time on multiple sites, that maybe harder said than done.
But I feel this much is important, we were all drawn to this site by an interest in MTG, not mafia, same thing with me when I played my first on the now taken down WoTC site. I spent time on other parts of the site, you make the card, deck building, story, before being invited into my first mafia game by Zinger.
I think that part helped me to return to this now, I was invited into the game. Can't do that without some effort.
Not talking spam PM boxes, but a signature banner for games you're in might help...
Unless you're on mobile all the time. I nearly forgot I had mine.
I dunno about you, but I came here specifically to play Mafia and hadn't played Magic for about 3-4 years when I started. Of course, I started up Magic again at the end of last year, so...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Supports the theory yes, but it is a correlation at best and in my opinion there are many other factors that could be at play. Curse could have just been the catalyst that provoked many more of these reasons.
Well, yeah, of course it's only correlational: a controlled study to determine causation would be practically impossible. It's a very strong correlation though, especially since - as Az says - many people who left specifically blamed Curse.
There is a large dip of new players in 2014. I don't know if it is statically significant but I would argue that you have no new players replacing anyone who left / returned. While there were players that left there was significantly less players replacing them. I would argue that even though you did lose players from the shift, the larger problem is that you had no players replacing this core group of players. Your base to lean on was significantly cut down for what ever reason. No new players/low retention means that when a player leaves it hurts the community as a whole since we lose one and never gain it back. It may be that higher numbers attract more players and this might be impossible to combat.
I think player retention rates of new players is something we should see if we can data mine. That would lead to some of the biggest information that we could glean.
I'd say a drop of about 90% (~30 to ~3) is pretty damn statistically significant. Yes, the fall in new players is particularly concerning (as I mentioned in the report), but the fall in new players happened after active players started falling and tracked fairly closely, suggesting that new players fell for the same reason active players did, rather than the fall in active players being caused by the fall in new players. The current very low numbers of new players plays a large part in our lack of recoverey.
The last basic we fired was August 2014, which is about quarter 3.5 on the chart. It doesn't appear to have had any negative noticeable effect - not longer afterwards, we actually saw a very slight increase in activity.
Yup, new player numbers didn't fall because we stopped Basics, we stopped Basics because there weren't enough new players. However, I'm speculating that the lack of Basics/newb friendly signups has contributed to new player numbers staying low, long after MTGS as a whole has recovered.
Quote from Azrael »
Come to think of it, the successful model from that period was that there were no distinguishing markings or brandings to the games whatsoever, or any rival queues, size related or otherwise. You signed up to host a game, and when your turn came, you ran what you liked. Added some nice variety and unpredictability, I suppose. The queues may make things a little too homogenized, perhaps.
January to October 2005, obviously. Then came the Newb games (Micro sized at first, but very quickly became Mini sized), followed by Basic games in February 2009.
If that's the case it's rather disingenuous to suggest that it's related to the Queues and game types, as that growth would obviously have been fuelled by the growth of the new MTGS site.
Quote from ZDS »
Maybe we should gather data for the Mafia forum's entire history, accompanied with a chronology of important changes and events (eg: introduction of the multiple queues system, modifications to the queues, forum drama involving members of our community, etc). It's good to know activity took a dive in 2014, but it'd be perhaps more useful to find what made the forum strive before that — us having a non-***** forum software does not explain everything.
I'd help gather the data, at least in submitting text files to your Github.
We can do that, sure, I just figured that 5 years worth of data would be sufficient to get trends. The forum has changed a lot, as has the way people use the internet with respect to phones and the rise of social media, so I would be hesitant to place much value on older data. But I'm not going to turn down extra pairs of hands.
I think the attribution to Curse is at least partially incorrect. We were sold at the end of 2012/beginning of 2013. I might even attribute some of the unusually strong seasonal spike in the early quarter of 2013 to the Curse fixes to our software and to the malicious SQL injections we'd been struggling to combat at the time of takeover (remember all the problems with Google flagging us as infected?). I would say the precipitous drop in player numbers better correlates with the initial rocky rollout of Cobalt (the new forum software).
Now, all that said, I think that there are some other points that might have contributed and have been voiced to me (or experienced by me myself). All of this comes with the grain of salt that I haven't been tapped into the Mafia community for a bit over a year (admittedly, I never posted much down here, but I tended to follow the sub fairly closely):
- I know that a number of prospective new players or even experienced players have felt intimidated by the trend we had towards mammoth Day1s.
- There was a real problem with toxic playstyles. I can think of multiple people who stopped playing here based off of such experiences. Given the time that has elapsed since I was "current" on the forum, this may have been resolved, but I can't say.
- The queue system created some absurd scenarios that I think you should really look at. While I do think you need some control on not running too many games, it was getting to the point that you needed to enter the queue something like 18-24 months in advance if you wanted to run a game. That sucks from a game mod perspective, but combined with the laborious Day1s, people like me with low game capacity (even when I could play, I could never support more than one day), it would dissuade me from entering a game if it looked like a game I cared about more was coming up in 3 months, since I wouldn't be able to rely on being free for a new game by that point. If something came up at the time of the second game for me, you lost a player for that cycle, not just deferred one.
- I remember not being at all interested in basics, and the excessive number of those with restricted firing on other game types sucked. Most of what I looked for was specialty-level minis (as an example: even with its flaws, I loooooved TMCT's Astarte), and those could be hard to find (on that note, 13-player games counting as a full-size normal was also problematic imo). I also think that the push towards basics disregarded the value of near-basics for the new player experience -- a functionally vanilla role with a nearly inconsequential ability is going to feel much better to a new player who doesn't yet understand the value of vanillas than a true vanilla role that just says "you have no abilities apart from voting. you win with the town."
I think there was more, but I'm leaving it there.
I don't really have answers to everything I've mentioned above. I'd say Cobalt has been on the upswing, based on changes I've seen in the approach to our dev support.
I like the idea of a mafia-based article, if crafted to address magic players. There's an overwhelming portion of the pro community that plays in-person mafia (or werewolf), so I would say that there is bound to be some interest if you direct it as "hey, you've seen in the articles of your favourite writers that they play 'werewolf' or 'mafia' to kill time at big tournaments. Let me explain to you what this is in some more depth and how you can experience it on the forums." Subsequent articles might go into more highbrow theory behind the game (you might even say "hey, this is part of a series. Try a game and when we're back in 3 weeks, we'll talk about some of the cool strategy inherent to the game", but the first article needs to target recruitment specifically. I also assume (without having spoken with our editing staff) that this recruitment approach is more likely to fit the needs of being relevant to a MTG site.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Some interesting points raised, there. Might not be an awful idea to have the mods step up flaming enforcement, particularly in newb games.
I think we solved the queue problem by implementing PCQs.
Mammoth day ones/onerous requirements for posting are kind of a distinguishing feature of the community here that I'd dislike abandoning altogether, but it's possible we should cater to a market with shorter attention spans and commitment levels, as well.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mammoth day ones/onerous requirements for posting are kind of a distinguishing feature of the community here that I'd dislike abandoning altogether, but it's possible we should cater to a market with shorter attention spans and commitment levels, as well.
I actually agree with you here. They might get a little large for my tastes at times, but the (generally) methodical approach of the community is one of the things that I personally like. That doesn't mean that it's not something to be aware of. Sometimes a conscious choice needs to be made of "this isn't for everyone, but we are going to choose to cater to this in our community" -- but it should be a conscious choice.
Some interesting points raised, there. Might not be an awful idea to have the mods step up flaming enforcement, particularly in newb games.
I want to also caution that it wasn't just flaming that was toxic. If you'll recall the game that had that altercation between you and ZDS, there's more than just flaming that can destroy the positive experience.
EDIT2: I couldn't think of a way to describe that without a specific example.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
@Iso- So over under 14, PCQs, and maybe introduce a rapid-fire game mode with short deadlines? Or do we leave deadline length discretionary also?
Do we bifurcate into a committee managed queue system that consciously seeks to diversify game types, kinda like an FTQ the committee? Do we PCQ *everything* up? Or do we just have people keep stepping into line? Some combination?
None of the issues with size based queues have been addressed. How do we stop complexity creep? Leave deadline length discretionary, but encourage 2-3 weeks to avoid days dragging on. If people want to host faster games then that's fine too.
@Iso- So over under 14, PCQs, and maybe introduce a rapid-fire game mode with short deadlines? Or do we leave deadline length discretionary also?
Do we bifurcate into a committee managed queue system that consciously seeks to diversify game types, kinda like an FTQ the committee? Do we PCQ *everything* up? Or do we just have people keep stepping into line? Some combination?
My default deadline is (# of living players) + (lynch threshold) in days with 72 hours for Nights. If the game is 12 or fewer players, 2 weeks is usually sufficient. Certain game mechanics might require discretionary increases or decreases in deadline length, but I think this is an okay baseline to use.
As for the queue, we should start by burning off the rest of what we currently have, and any additional submissions are added to the NEW queue, which will be size-based. Players can sign up to host 1 large game and 1 small game at a time, and we can run 1 large game and 1 or 2 small games at a time, dependent upon supply and demand. We can restart the PCQ after we stabilize our playerbase numbers, adding the current submissions to the size-based queues. We can run the Micros (which we can gear more towards being newbie-friendly and less gimmicky) as a separate queue with rolling sign-ups so that there is always a game that can be filled.
None of the issues with size based queues have been addressed. How do we stop complexity creep?
We don't need to have checks in place for complexity creep, IMO. Certain hosts such as ZDS, Prophylaxis, and yourself prefer creating setups that are not so complex, whereas hosts such as Az, Tare, and Seppel might prefer more complex setups, with a good number of hosts falling somewhere in between. A good example of this is hansanator's recent Specialty, Animal Mafia. The only reason I told him he should run it as a Specialty instead of a Normal was because of the power role density (and maybe one or two roles that were kind of weird). I find that newer hosts tend to want to make their games as complex as possible, but once they fall into a rhythm, they most often steer away from that being the entirety of their submissions to the queue. I've personally been favoring less complex/more elegant setups, myself, when hosting as of late - though I admit that I've been turning around a rather complex game idea in my mind.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I would very much like it if Curse fixed the Search function for the website.
It seems that searching "__ text by __ author" has reverted to having issues.
Searching was completely fixed.
I had a whole sleuth people test it out, etc.
Is there anything other then "Text by Author" that isn't quite working?
(I'll wait a day before adding a support ticket to see if there's anything else)
Given the rapid completion rate on micros (2-5 days from what I see), would it make sense to de-queue those entirely?
Just say "if it's been okay'd by a reviewer, you're clear fire at will." That lets people have fun diversionary games to hop into quickly and get their bearings before jumping up to bigger time investments (it also makes it easier to keep established players engaged as they wait for their next big game to start sign-ups and fire). It might also be the backdoor solution to large Day-1s in that it gives the clear alternative that, even without draconian deadlines, naturally doesn't lend itself to them.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
It seems that searching "__ text by __ author" has reverted to having issues.
Searching was completely fixed.
I had a whole sleuth people test it out, etc.
Is there anything other then "Text by Author" that isn't quite working?
(I'll wait a day before adding a support ticket to see if there's anything else)
Do you suppose there's any chance of our being able to rip off any of the code from the following website, permitting:
A. Single Click ISO Search Button of a User's posts within that thread
B. Quotable Search Results
C. Automatic Vote Counts
D. Automatic Vote Count Posting
E. Automatic lynch scenes
As I mentioned to Feyd elsewhere, the specific function I was looking for in Search was text by author.
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion, ER.
Az, I feel like the latter 3 would have to be a script/bot that somebody else runs. I don't think its overall functionality can necessarily be applied to the rest of the site, so it seems unfair to ask Curse to make something like that specifically for us.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do yo suppose there's any chance of our being able to rip off any of the code from the following website, permitting:
- Automated Vote/Scenes would definitely be a no.
- Searching a user's posts within a thread button.. possibly.
- Adding a multiquote button to post search results - I'll add an official request ticket on that today.
Some of these these mafia specific things are quite mafia specific. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but it's just not doable on our site. It's adding quite a bit of codework, site load, overhead, etc, for something that won't have any effect to a large part of the site. The day to day use, such as mobile, is absolutely something that we want to address and improve. It's the difference between being a Magic Site that wants to support mafia in its community, and a true Mafia-Specific site.
The automatic vote counts, posting, lynching.. that would work best as a user running a script/program. Similar to the aggregation program for EDH Decks that get done.
I could absolutely devote some time to making a Greasemonkey script specific for Mafia players to help add Mafia-specific things. I have a personal one I use to help automate quite a few things, and have found it very helpful. This could easily add the "User's post in thread" button, etc. It can add other things, like click-to-show signatures, that I know is more wanted in this area. Thoughts?
Introduction
The number of players playing Mafia on MTGS has fallen during recent years, shown primarily through the reduction in the number of games run. By observing and charting this decline, we can attempt to understand why the population has decreased, and facilitate discussion on what can be done to rectify the situation and encourage growth.
The aim of this study is to observe the number of players from 2010 to 2015 inclusive, to discover the extent to which numbers have fallen, when they fell, and to explore changes in the sub-populations of new players, returning players, and active players.
Methods
The total population data for players on the mafia forum consists of the username of everyone who played a game between the years of 2010 and 2015. Within this six year period, data was collected in quarters of three months: the first quarter being January/February/March. A game was categorised into its quarter set based on its recorded start date, derived from the date of the first post in the thread. Replacements were counted the same as players who started the game, even if they replaced during a later quarter.
In addition to the total population, we wished to examine the subpopulations from which it is composed. Each player in the total population data was therefore assigned into one of three populations:
The total population data was acquired by manually copying and pasting playerlists into a separate .txt file for each quarter (yes really). This was then stripped of formatting and parsed using a python script into an excel spreadsheet, with each column containing a list of players who played at least one game during each quarter. This total population data was then subdivided into the above sub-populations via another python script, with the resulting numbers of players in each subpopulation for each quarter also present in the spreadsheet. Also included in the spreadsheet is the list of games included in each quarter, as well as a quick-and-dirty count of how many games were played each year. Note that three games were excluded from this analysis: CCMIX, as it was a hydra game, Social Engineering 2, for being a blind game with gimmicks, and Vanilla 2, for having an OP which has been completely mangled.
Results
The resulting total number of players, along with the number of new, active, and returning player who were involved in at least one game each quarter is presented in figure 1 below.
The overall population has fluctuated with no clear trend for most of the time period, before dropping off in 2014, in line with the active and new player sub-populations.
In figure 1, we can see that active players underwent a very gentle decline in numbers until 2014, when the numbers rapidly fell off. During the preceding years, there are clear quarterly alternating peaks and troughs at the same points in each year. A fairly similar response was seen in the number of new players each quarter, which likewise tailed off during 2014. However there was also a large trough in the number of new players during the latter half of 2012. Returning players have maintained reasonably constant level, apart from a dip in 2013Q1. They only fell off marginally in 2014, and in fact rose slightly towards the end of the year and into 2015.
Discussion
This report aimed to observe the number of players, by quarter, from 2010 to 2015overall and by subpopulation. It found a large decrease in player numbers, as well as other fluctuations in the player-base.
Active players
The active player-base was mostly stable between 2011 to 2014, undergoing only a gentle decline. The alternative peaks and troughs suggest seasonal ebbs and flows in player numbers, supporting anecdotal observations. 2014 saw a gigantic contraction of the active player base, which is most likely attributable to the change in forum software under Curse ownership, which was widely decried at the time as being unsuitable for Mafia. Going into 2015, this decline levelled off and the population stabilised, helped perhaps in part by technological improvements at the start of 2015 (such as the increased post per page count). There was a worrying dip in 2015Q3 in overall player numbers, but they immediately bounced back, possibly suggesting that the current player-base has stabilised sufficiently for the seasonal changes in demand to return.
New players
New player rates have seen large fluctuations, although with consistent peak heights. The drop in new players in 2012Q3 is difficult to explain: the summer of 2012 saw a huge amount of site-wide drama focusing on the closure of the Gutter and associated user bans. This did affect the number of active players (the cyclical trough in 2012Q3 is larger than previous drops) as some players were banned or voluntarily left the site, although it is unclear how site drama would impact new players: perhaps users were driven away from the site, or the drama monopolised attention of otherwise potential new players.
The number of new players seems to start to recover in 2014Q1 before following declining in the rest of the year. Worryingly, new players are still in decline, possibly due to a lack of new-player friendly sign-ups.
The main area of interest revealed through this data was 2014, as the decline from 2014 to present day has been more severe than any other and shows no sign of recovery. While I have been unable to find a full timeline for when events occurred, the transition to Curse happened around this time. This came with the change in forum software, which public opinion was incredibly negative of (and not without reason). However, a number of positive changes were made in first half of 2015 (such as the increase in posts per page), which helped to stabilise the player base to an extent by making the site more mafia-friendly.
Returning players
Returning players have stayed fairly constant and less subject to the whims of seasonal demand than active and new players. They were also only very gently affected by the exodus in 2014, and have actually shown an increase since the end of 2014 (although this tailed off right at the end of 2015). This provides some hope that Curse has improved sufficiently that some players pushed away by it might be returning.
All three populations showed a trough in 2013Q1. Although this is in line with a seasonal in active players, it is very unusual behaviour for returning players. At the end of 2012, MTGS was first sold to Curse, which could have put off potential returning players. In addition, the forum struggled with a handful of large games which took a while to fire, which led to the fusing of Normals with the League.
Limitations
There are a number of limitations with the data collection methodology. Primarily, no provision has been made for the same player using a different name. This means that each different name is counted as a separate player, which includes:
In each of these cases, the different name appears as a completely separate player, which causes inflation in the population, and subpopulations that may skew the results. The situation is very solvable, but is likely to be labour intensive, as it would require collecting the variations by hand before combining them.
Conclusion
In conclusion, player numbers have fallen dramatically from 2010 to the end of 2015. Prior to 2014, decline was very gradual, with a series of peaks and troughs and active player numbers maintained a healthy cycle. However, the move to Curse and change in forum software in 2014 had a dramatic impact on the player base, and although this seems to be stabilising, there have been no signs of recovery, with the numbers of all three groups remaining low.
Given the current situation, it is imperative that we, as a forum, group together to work out what can be done to increase player numbers. The most important area to focus on is new players: their numbers have fallen incredibly - to only three new players in 2015Q4 - and appear to show no obvious signs of recovery. Although the number of returning players has remained fairly consistent, we should be looking to grow their number as well, primarily by trying to bring back the large number of players that left during 2014. Key to any growth strategy is ensuring that new and returning players can be converted into active players, which are the most important overall demographic to the continued health of the site.
I am seeking Constructive criticism around methods used. Do people think that grouping the data in 3 month blocks is correct? Are the sub-population definitions correct? What other information would you like to look at (and feel free to use the data to run your own analysis). Also looking for volunteers to add 2016Q1 and Q2, as well as to help sanitise the data to remove some of the limitations and to improve data quality. Post here or PM if you want to help!
Most importantly, how do we fix the situation? Some ideas:
Second quarter is when people are out of school, and given that a large number of our populace has at some point been actively involved in schooling, it makes sense that we'd see an increase in players during those periods.
I agree that the Curse buyout and site drama was largely responsible for the initial decline of our playerbase, though I also feel that in recent years, the subforum has become a lot more toxic. I did a lot during my tenure as an MTGS Mod to foster a less hostile environment to the best of my ability, and I hope to continue to do so as a Councillor. In general, though, it feels like we've had a big shift in our culture since the days of yore. It feels like there are a large number of green players (2 years or less) in the sub, and that may be what's responsible for this alleged shift of mentality.
Curse has definitely rolled out a lot of improvements that we specifically requested, which was quite generous of them. Even though there are obvious issues with the software, it's probably honestly about where vBulletin was, back in the day.
Another issue I foresee is people who explicitly post from their mobile devices. Curse's mobile interface is godawful, and the advertisements make it extremely difficult to actually get a post in. I've brought this up to Curse before, and they said that all we can do is report offensive ads and hope they go away. (I personally use adblock for the matter, though having been given a Curse Premium account for being on staff was also extremely helpful.)
To answer some specifics:
* I would very much like it if Curse fixed the Search function for the website. I can't think of anything else software-related at the moment.
* Yes, MTGS is always looking for new content for its articles. I tried writing one but was basically told that it wasn't long enough for them to publish (along with a few other issues, but I think the primary one was length). So if you want the Mafia sub to get some free publicity, anyone, feel free to submit your content!
* Advertising games on MafiaUniverse seems like a good idea. We could probably encourage our players to sign up for games there, as well, so it's not a totally one-sided thing.
* If we could get the MTGS Twitter involved, that could be good. Otherwise, I think the people who already care about new game sign-ups are already checking the sub regularly.
* Survey sounds good. Who should we have type it up?
* Mass invite might help the people who are on the fence about returning. I personally tried this a couple of years back to attempt to get the old vets back in the fray, but only a few showed up for a brief stay and most of the others said they just didn't have the time for it any more.
I do agree that we need to find a way to lure new players in and keep them here.
Forever.
-
Anyway, thanks for doing this collection and analysis, Eco! I'm sure it was time-consuming.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. Players new to forum mafia
2. Players new to MTGS
I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to do the work to separate those in the data set, but the things needed to cater to those two groups are completely different, so it definitely would be useful to know.
I have actually done this, in December of 2015. It's hard for them to tell precisely given the volume of spam accounts, but the long and short of it is MTGS has recovered to pre-Curse levels. One would have expected our player numbers to recover in line with MTGS numbers, and that they haven't (even given the sub-forum's elevation to being at the top level and not under forum games) is very troubling.
This is certainly an opinion I've heard before. Although "toxicity" is pretty hard to measure (number of reports or infractions/warnings given?) it is something that should be addressed: but how? Stricter moderation for flaming/trolling?
I think I'd broadly agree, so maybe we need to track down people who left because of the interface change and let them know things are better now.
I've not used it myself, but ad-block seems like a solution at least. It's very unfortunate that more can't be done.
That's a good start. Since you are familiar with the issue, could you take it up? I think you'd be best off posting in community discussion, or maybe PM'ing Feyd an admin (I think Feyd_Ruin is the tech guy) directly.
That's great, I think an "Introduction to Mafia" article would be the best idea, and we do have a bunch of more in depth articles already written in the sub. How long were they looking for?
Absolutely. This cross-over that's being organised with the Total War forum is a great first step in that too.
Agreed, especially if the MafiaScum twitter is any indication. The MTGS twitter has 15K followers, imagine if even 1% cared about Mafia! It looks mostly automated, but it does at least tweet articles when they go out.
If we can agree on the areas we want it to cover, I can work on it. I know someone who works in research and has a lot of experience writing effective surveys.
If we can at least find out why they left, we can look at fixing their problems. I wouldn't expect many of them to come back, but we lost so many so quickly surely some must still be interested.
*******
That's actually a very good point. Separating the two groups would be time consuming, but I think it has a lot of value.
With regards to toxicity, I think hosts should start liberally handing out modkills for toxic and disruptive behavior. Since you can sit out a week with 3 infractions, most players just don't seem to care about the site rules and just do what they will. Additionally, there seem to be a lot of people who really toe the line, and/or are just insufferable about the matter. Since suspensions don't seem to get the message across, I imagine players will stop acting this way if they simply are removed from the games they do it in.
I'm not exactly sure what the length requirement is, but using the other articles that are published as a baseline would probably be a safe bet.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Is there any way we could copy any of the other functionality that Mafia Universe's software offers for Mafia, such as the multi-ISO feature available from in-thread, or the automatic vote-count bot?
I think you also have to consider the time controls as well. People come here hoping to play Mafia and learn the game but then they sit for two weeks with half of the players VLA or just not participating. It's boring. People likely get curious of others sites and notice the faster paces of other sites and just leave without ever looking back.
I don't think there's particularly strong analysis going on just because of the long time controls either (as was supposed). Usually lurkers end up getting lynched quite a bit, which oddly enough often ends up being scum here.
I recently went away because I dialed back my game-playing for a little while, then made a return because I'd been skimming some games here and were interested in a few of the players, had tons of fun with a couple of games that I've played, then left because navigating Curse took far too long and was far too frustrating for me to be able to reread games in the depth that I like to when I'm playing games with normal paces, and now will happily return again now that I've installed Ad Block Plus and posting on this site is no longer annoying as hell.
Nacho we need you back man!
At the same time, having long games is really nice because you aren't forced to constantly be playing mafia, whereas with faster games you have to dedicate a more definite block of time to playing. Some kind of mid point would be nice.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Seconding this.
When I first started playing mafia here, there were endless basics to sign up for, all with very clear and simple rules/roles. There was also a mentor system, because I definitely remember being mentored (maybe more than once even). I definitely agree that if I was trying to join now, I really wouldn't know where to start, and would probably just be confused.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
But there's really not much of a chance that new players perusing the forum are going to notice it when they scan through, looking for a thread to sign up. I'm guessing we're not getting any mentor requests or player contact list requests ever since we got switched to that system.
It also appears that we don't have any signups available at the moment? Which is another thing we have to avoid at all costs. The new player contact list was supposed to be our backup for that eventuality, so we need to either duplicate the rules thread and move it down, or just split the content. Mods?
MTGS is an absolute pain to browse and post on. The only reason I tolerate it is because I like you all.
If I had a heart, I would be crying right now.
(You doing Gen Con again this year again? I feel like I need to get you a beer or something)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think some of the questions that need to be asked is how did we all end up here in the first place. IE how did we as new players make it to this site.
We should also look at what creates higher retention rates of newer and older players.
One thing I could note is many of my games here have felt significantly less active by our player base, this could be a variable that matters. Overall I would describe this to me as feeling like I am watching the the player base die off. This might be because I come from the before curse days and so I am just used to something largely different.
One large reason we might have lost a lot of players is age and other such things. I am not certain but my assumption among the players that left is that they are of the same age categories and other new life events might have taken precedence over playing mafia. Then again it could just be curse.
But to me the most important thing to understand is where our new player base comes from. I would argue additionally that understanding how our active player base came to this site is the priority since it feels like a safe bet that if we could cater to that crowd we might obtain a higher retention rate of players.
Edit: Also I wouldn't be too concerned with the validity of the data. Player base numbers are down this is indisputable.
Az, currently, Rax's game is in sign-ups - why do you think we don't have any sign-ups open?
Additionally, people are always allowed to request mentors or to shadow another player - if they don't want utilize that, nobody is forcing them to.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I will happily return in full force the next time there's a game in signups that isn't large and bastard/rolemadness/ridiculous!
This was my experience as well. Except I had never played mafia as well just stumbled upon it and it looked like fun. I am just curious how many is like that vs other ways.
D'oh.
Should we perhaps have color code for signup threads, not just the game types? We definitely want to make sure those stick out.
I used to just not prefix my sign-up threads with anything so we knew it wasn't a game (despite "sign-ups" being in the thread title) but then everyone started doing it so I also did it for more visibility for my sign-up threads.
That sounds like work.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I got here because I wanted to up my Lorwyn game. Then I got too good and upped my win rate in limited format to something absurdly high like 90%, and that's when I lost interest in Magic -- I started playing like a Spike, which made playing against Timmy and Johnny a snore (but a friendly snore!), and sheer frustration when dealing with the attitude of other Spikes.
So I looked around to see if there was anything else for me, and then I discovered the Mafia subforum.
I also imagine Jace talks in an Australian accent like Jeice from DBZ.
Yup, I'll be there. Booth 2442.
(Also I prefer wine over beer.)
With respect to that article, Talore says the content team are on the fence about publishing non-MTG articles, and have asked for a first draft/pilot to help them decide. Is there anyone who wants to step up and help out by writing something? I'm happy to help out/proof read/bounce ideas off, but I'm somewhat articled out right now.
Supports the theory yes, but it is a correlation at best and in my opinion there are many other factors that could be at play. Curse could have just been the catalyst that provoked many more of these reasons.
It looks though as if the number of new players a quarter has also dropped dramatically as well, this could be another reason that the player base is so much smaller.
It's a tad hard for me to accept that that's the cause, as the forum's most rapid and healthy periods of growth existed without the benefit of any basics, or really much in the way of classifications at all.
Come to think of it, the successful model from that period was that there were no distinguishing markings or brandings to the games whatsoever, or any rival queues, size related or otherwise. You signed up to host a game, and when your turn came, you ran what you liked. Added some nice variety and unpredictability, I suppose. The queues may make things a little too homogenized, perhaps.
EDIT: There's no doubt in my mind that Curse was to blame for the dropoff - many of the people who left around that time specifically said that was the reason.
There is a large dip of new players in 2014. I don't know if it is statically significant but I would argue that you have no new players replacing anyone who left / returned. While there were players that left there was significantly less players replacing them. I would argue that even though you did lose players from the shift, the larger problem is that you had no players replacing this core group of players. Your base to lean on was significantly cut down for what ever reason. No new players/low retention means that when a player leaves it hurts the community as a whole since we lose one and never gain it back. It may be that higher numbers attract more players and this might be impossible to combat.
I think player retention rates of new players is something we should see if we can data mine. That would lead to some of the biggest information that we could glean.
It's literally something that people can do on the site EVERY DAY and increase time spent on Curse while reducing time spent on other sites.
That should be a no-brainer.
I do think that the spikes in quarter 2 that you saw in prior periods are pretty telling. That says to me that people played more in the summer - when they had more time away from school. So there are also some age demographics at work, here. The average age of magic players has also increased greatly, and I suspect we're less likely to see those older players commit to learning to play a new and unfamiliar game when they have work and family obligations in the mix, and our returning contingent faces the same challenges.
I suppose it's quite possible that changes in MTG economics have priced most teenagers and college students out of the game, and in turn, a sizable portion of our new player recruiting base with it.
Regardless, there must be some solutions out there.
But I feel this much is important, we were all drawn to this site by an interest in MTG, not mafia, same thing with me when I played my first on the now taken down WoTC site. I spent time on other parts of the site, you make the card, deck building, story, before being invited into my first mafia game by Zinger.
I think that part helped me to return to this now, I was invited into the game. Can't do that without some effort.
Not talking spam PM boxes, but a signature banner for games you're in might help...
Unless you're on mobile all the time. I nearly forgot I had mine.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
So what you're saying is, the data may support a size-based queue vs. a complexity-based queue? ;p
I dunno about you, but I came here specifically to play Mafia and hadn't played Magic for about 3-4 years when I started. Of course, I started up Magic again at the end of last year, so...
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, yeah, of course it's only correlational: a controlled study to determine causation would be practically impossible. It's a very strong correlation though, especially since - as Az says - many people who left specifically blamed Curse.
I'd say a drop of about 90% (~30 to ~3) is pretty damn statistically significant. Yes, the fall in new players is particularly concerning (as I mentioned in the report), but the fall in new players happened after active players started falling and tracked fairly closely, suggesting that new players fell for the same reason active players did, rather than the fall in active players being caused by the fall in new players. The current very low numbers of new players plays a large part in our lack of recoverey.
Yup, new player numbers didn't fall because we stopped Basics, we stopped Basics because there weren't enough new players. However, I'm speculating that the lack of Basics/newb friendly signups has contributed to new player numbers staying low, long after MTGS as a whole has recovered.
What period are you referring to here?
@Iso - I think I'm sold on a size-based system now, with some PCQs sprinkled in.
EDIT: But really, I think I'd rather drop size-restrictions as well, or simplify them somehow - games over or under 13 players, for instance.
If that's the case it's rather disingenuous to suggest that it's related to the Queues and game types, as that growth would obviously have been fuelled by the growth of the new MTGS site.
We can do that, sure, I just figured that 5 years worth of data would be sufficient to get trends. The forum has changed a lot, as has the way people use the internet with respect to phones and the rise of social media, so I would be hesitant to place much value on older data. But I'm not going to turn down extra pairs of hands.
Now, all that said, I think that there are some other points that might have contributed and have been voiced to me (or experienced by me myself). All of this comes with the grain of salt that I haven't been tapped into the Mafia community for a bit over a year (admittedly, I never posted much down here, but I tended to follow the sub fairly closely):
- I know that a number of prospective new players or even experienced players have felt intimidated by the trend we had towards mammoth Day1s.
- There was a real problem with toxic playstyles. I can think of multiple people who stopped playing here based off of such experiences. Given the time that has elapsed since I was "current" on the forum, this may have been resolved, but I can't say.
- The queue system created some absurd scenarios that I think you should really look at. While I do think you need some control on not running too many games, it was getting to the point that you needed to enter the queue something like 18-24 months in advance if you wanted to run a game. That sucks from a game mod perspective, but combined with the laborious Day1s, people like me with low game capacity (even when I could play, I could never support more than one day), it would dissuade me from entering a game if it looked like a game I cared about more was coming up in 3 months, since I wouldn't be able to rely on being free for a new game by that point. If something came up at the time of the second game for me, you lost a player for that cycle, not just deferred one.
- I remember not being at all interested in basics, and the excessive number of those with restricted firing on other game types sucked. Most of what I looked for was specialty-level minis (as an example: even with its flaws, I loooooved TMCT's Astarte), and those could be hard to find (on that note, 13-player games counting as a full-size normal was also problematic imo). I also think that the push towards basics disregarded the value of near-basics for the new player experience -- a functionally vanilla role with a nearly inconsequential ability is going to feel much better to a new player who doesn't yet understand the value of vanillas than a true vanilla role that just says "you have no abilities apart from voting. you win with the town."
I think there was more, but I'm leaving it there.
I don't really have answers to everything I've mentioned above. I'd say Cobalt has been on the upswing, based on changes I've seen in the approach to our dev support.
I like the idea of a mafia-based article, if crafted to address magic players. There's an overwhelming portion of the pro community that plays in-person mafia (or werewolf), so I would say that there is bound to be some interest if you direct it as "hey, you've seen in the articles of your favourite writers that they play 'werewolf' or 'mafia' to kill time at big tournaments. Let me explain to you what this is in some more depth and how you can experience it on the forums." Subsequent articles might go into more highbrow theory behind the game (you might even say "hey, this is part of a series. Try a game and when we're back in 3 weeks, we'll talk about some of the cool strategy inherent to the game", but the first article needs to target recruitment specifically. I also assume (without having spoken with our editing staff) that this recruitment approach is more likely to fit the needs of being relevant to a MTG site.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
I think we solved the queue problem by implementing PCQs.
Mammoth day ones/onerous requirements for posting are kind of a distinguishing feature of the community here that I'd dislike abandoning altogether, but it's possible we should cater to a market with shorter attention spans and commitment levels, as well.
My suggestion is "Large" games have 14 or more players, and "Small" games have 13 or fewer.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
EDIT: I want to also caution that it wasn't just flaming that was toxic. If you'll recall the game that had that altercation between you and ZDS, there's more than just flaming that can destroy the positive experience.
EDIT2: I couldn't think of a way to describe that without a specific example.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
@Iso- So over under 14, PCQs, and maybe introduce a rapid-fire game mode with short deadlines? Or do we leave deadline length discretionary also?
Do we bifurcate into a committee managed queue system that consciously seeks to diversify game types, kinda like an FTQ the committee? Do we PCQ *everything* up? Or do we just have people keep stepping into line? Some combination?
My default deadline is (# of living players) + (lynch threshold) in days with 72 hours for Nights. If the game is 12 or fewer players, 2 weeks is usually sufficient. Certain game mechanics might require discretionary increases or decreases in deadline length, but I think this is an okay baseline to use.
As for the queue, we should start by burning off the rest of what we currently have, and any additional submissions are added to the NEW queue, which will be size-based. Players can sign up to host 1 large game and 1 small game at a time, and we can run 1 large game and 1 or 2 small games at a time, dependent upon supply and demand. We can restart the PCQ after we stabilize our playerbase numbers, adding the current submissions to the size-based queues. We can run the Micros (which we can gear more towards being newbie-friendly and less gimmicky) as a separate queue with rolling sign-ups so that there is always a game that can be filled.
We don't need to have checks in place for complexity creep, IMO. Certain hosts such as ZDS, Prophylaxis, and yourself prefer creating setups that are not so complex, whereas hosts such as Az, Tare, and Seppel might prefer more complex setups, with a good number of hosts falling somewhere in between. A good example of this is hansanator's recent Specialty, Animal Mafia. The only reason I told him he should run it as a Specialty instead of a Normal was because of the power role density (and maybe one or two roles that were kind of weird). I find that newer hosts tend to want to make their games as complex as possible, but once they fall into a rhythm, they most often steer away from that being the entirety of their submissions to the queue. I've personally been favoring less complex/more elegant setups, myself, when hosting as of late - though I admit that I've been turning around a rather complex game idea in my mind.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It seems that searching "__ text by __ author" has reverted to having issues.
Searching was completely fixed.
I had a whole sleuth people test it out, etc.
I can find all posts by iso in this thread - even the one that he posted only a minute before I did this search. We can find ISO's posts from today from all of this forum, find threads that ISO made on April 13th. And so on.
Is there anything other then "Text by Author" that isn't quite working?
(I'll wait a day before adding a support ticket to see if there's anything else)
No longer staff here.
Just say "if it's been okay'd by a reviewer, you're clear fire at will." That lets people have fun diversionary games to hop into quickly and get their bearings before jumping up to bigger time investments (it also makes it easier to keep established players engaged as they wait for their next big game to start sign-ups and fire). It might also be the backdoor solution to large Day-1s in that it gives the clear alternative that, even without draconian deadlines, naturally doesn't lend itself to them.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Do you suppose there's any chance of our being able to rip off any of the code from the following website, permitting:
A. Single Click ISO Search Button of a User's posts within that thread
B. Quotable Search Results
C. Automatic Vote Counts
D. Automatic Vote Count Posting
E. Automatic lynch scenes
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/2310-Season-3-Game-7-Broforce-Mafia-Championship?p=369676&viewfull=1#post369676
It's basically a mafia player's paradise, saving hours and hours of time per player per game.
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion, ER.
Az, I feel like the latter 3 would have to be a script/bot that somebody else runs. I don't think its overall functionality can necessarily be applied to the rest of the site, so it seems unfair to ask Curse to make something like that specifically for us.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
- Searching a user's posts within a thread button.. possibly.
- Adding a multiquote button to post search results - I'll add an official request ticket on that today.
Some of these these mafia specific things are quite mafia specific. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but it's just not doable on our site. It's adding quite a bit of codework, site load, overhead, etc, for something that won't have any effect to a large part of the site. The day to day use, such as mobile, is absolutely something that we want to address and improve. It's the difference between being a Magic Site that wants to support mafia in its community, and a true Mafia-Specific site.
The automatic vote counts, posting, lynching.. that would work best as a user running a script/program. Similar to the aggregation program for EDH Decks that get done.
I could absolutely devote some time to making a Greasemonkey script specific for Mafia players to help add Mafia-specific things. I have a personal one I use to help automate quite a few things, and have found it very helpful. This could easily add the "User's post in thread" button, etc. It can add other things, like click-to-show signatures, that I know is more wanted in this area. Thoughts?
No longer staff here.