unvote, of course, my beautiful bae
rvs is long past, its quite safe to say
@kj you missed the point of that line
he responded to you, and that was just fine
its rhand and vaimes that are quite unaligned
read it again, and enter his mind
ill wait to see what rhand has to show us
but once he does, we have much to discuss
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@KJ: naked votes invoke reactions. Look at Mindreaver's extremely soft reaction to my Vaimes vote and you know why he's scum. And then look at Vaimes's soft reaction to my Mindreaver vote. He's scum too.
Town react like you and tom did if they react at all.
@Tom - That math doesn't help us catch scum. In fact it's only useful if we want to know the odds of randomly lynching. Which we won't be doing... So what was the thought process there?
@Killjoy - "Saying a vote is mostly not serious reads as saying "you can't really use this against me in the future because it wasn't serious", hence 'cop out'." Are you looking for things to use against people later on? That phrasing bothers me.
@Rhand - What are your thoughts on Vaimes?
This was his reaction to your Vaimes vote. What about this tells you he's scum with Vaimes?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@KJ: naked votes invoke reactions. Look at Mindreaver's extremely soft reaction to my Vaimes vote and you know why he's scum. And then look at Vaimes's soft reaction to my Mindreaver vote. He's scum too.
Town react like you and tom did if they react at all.
This analysis seems terrible. Almost deliberately so. So I spared you one line to ask what your thought process is, because I was curious why you voted that way, which makes me scum? That's quite a leap.
Also, are these naked votes just random? Or was there more thought to them. Right now, you're voting me because:
1) You voted for vaimes without explanation
2) I had the nerve to ask what you were thinking
3) You vote me, not explaining your thought process, only stating that you were fishing for reactions
How about this. Why'd you pick Vaimes to "naked vote". You made this decision before anyone "reacted". Why?
Also I'll toss this out there, with Tom's 99 and Rhand's 100:
I was trying to figure out if Vaimes and KJ were scum together, because something about that whole exchange seemed artificial to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it just seemed like it lacked conviction. I suppose it could both be town arguing a point neither really thought was going anywhere, but I do see them as aligned.
@KJ: naked votes invoke reactions. Look at Mindreaver's extremely soft reaction to my Vaimes vote and you know why he's scum. And then look at Vaimes's soft reaction to my Mindreaver vote. He's scum too.
Town react like you and tom did if they react at all.
@KJ: it doesn't tell me he's scum with Vaimes. It tells me he's scum period. Because of the way he asks me for reasoning. It's too soft.
Can you say something other than "it's soft". Whatever that's supposed to mean. Also, you came out twice with Me and Vaimes, but now it's not necessarily Vaimes?
You're a mess and I've seen enough. I was waiting for you to "get to a PC" and see a better argument, but this is over the top.
I normally wouldn't link these or expect anybody to read them, but
1. Two week phases are LONG
2. Vaimed has a pretty obvious meta. Though I hear he's much better around here.
@rhand it seems odd, from a solving perspective
that both should be scum, but the reads arent connective
nailing the scumteam Day 1 is impressive
but without interaction, it seems ineffective
Mindreaver asked my opinion on Vaimes without weighing in himself. That is telling if one of them flips scum, but nothing to base a read on.
The softness in their posts can be a tell though. Which is why I couldn't give any reasoning at first. Did you see how his tone changed when I did call him soft?
I'm sorry Rhand. You really seem to want Mindreaver and me to be scum, because catching scum early is fun. But I am town. I actually had Mindreaver as one of my top town, which is why I was confused as to why TWO different people had scumreads on him. So I asked about it.
Your reasoning for both of us is flimsier than the extremely sad one-ply toilet paper my college dorm is cursed with. Like...we're both scum for how we reacted to your naked votes? You magically caught the scumteam by doing next to nothing?
Also I'll toss this out there, with Tom's 99 and Rhand's 100:
I was trying to figure out if Vaimes and KJ were scum together, because something about that whole exchange seemed artificial to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it just seemed like it lacked conviction. I suppose it could both be town arguing a point neither really thought was going anywhere, but I do see them as aligned.
This is hilarious for reasons I will get into later.
@KJ: it doesn't tell me he's scum with Vaimes. It tells me he's scum period. Because of the way he asks me for reasoning. It's too soft.
...He literally just asked 'why?' to a blank vote on a person who wasn't himself. You're abruptly jumping to conclusions based on an entirely acceptable answer.
@KJ: naked votes invoke reactions. Look at Mindreaver's extremely soft reaction to my Vaimes vote and you know why he's scum. And then look at Vaimes's soft reaction to my Mindreaver vote. He's scum too.
Town react like you and tom did if they react at all.
@KJ: it doesn't tell me he's scum with Vaimes. It tells me he's scum period. Because of the way he asks me for reasoning. It's too soft.
Can you say something other than "it's soft". Whatever that's supposed to mean. Also, you came out twice with Me and Vaimes, but now it's not necessarily Vaimes?
You're a mess and I've seen enough. I was waiting for you to "get to a PC" and see a better argument, but this is over the top.
Unvote, Vote Rhand
And YOU are being ridiculously over defensive and OMGUSy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As scum, I try harder to give people what they want when I'm pressured. My jokes are more forced or self-conscious sounding. I have a much harder time crafting cases against people because I know they're town. I reflexively bus under pressure because I know my buddies are scum and I want to look good for pushing them.
1) You Vote Vaimes
2) I ask what your opinion of him is. At this point I should also supply my opinion of him?
3) You call me soft, because the tone of my one-line question
4) I respond by telling you exactly how silly that is, using more than one sentence
5) You are now saying my tone has changed.
First, I'd love to see how you could possibly gauge the tone of a single sentence. Secondly, don't you think that perhaps the reason for a "tone change" would be nothing more than "Oh look, more than one sentence to actually look at. And hey, he seems to actually have an opinion this time". Thirdly, I'm not often in the habit of asking people for their opinion and then giving them mine at the same time. I'd rather have your reasons without mine coloring them in any way. Apparently your reason was "Random naked voting designed to get a response".
This isn't your first time at the rodeo Rhand, this continues to not make any sense.
For the record I'm Null on Vaimes. I was asking because I didn't see much from him for a read in either direction, just in case you'd seen something I'd missed.
I'm wondering who this exchange benefits the most. You have managed to siphon two previously-RVS votes away from the other wagons.
You really think Mindreaver's reactions is town? Why?
its not what he said that makes me think town
its the mindset of being ready to throw down
this is not what i expect from mindreaver as scum
i can see him appeasing, or just playing dumb
Can you cite a scumgame of Mindreaver's where he appeased or played dumb?
@Mindreaver
Could you give your reads on tom, mal, and Killjoy? I know you said you're null on me, but I am the top poster and I think I've been pretty straightforward and open in my thought process; I'd like you to try a little harder to see if I'm town or scum.
Well, Tom's gonna have a hard time with that one I recently started playing mafia, so I only have one completed game (Twinborn). Where I was town.
I'm having a tough time reading Tom, and it's mostly because of the rhymes. Half the time I don't know if the phrasing is scummy, or it just fit the rhyme better.
Mal I'm townreading at the moment. I like his analysis of you and of GJ. He has some good points and seems engaged in the game. I am taking his read of you seriously though, and I can't tell if your second response to his friend question was what he was trying to trap you in.
You, I'm null on. Mal says you're town. KJ also had a point on evasiveness. But I just haven't made up my mind, even with your posting frequency closer to my own. Let me ask you this. Have you caught any scum yet?
KJ, I'm very suspicious of. I'm taking a hard look at him, and was in the middle of a re-read when I got sidetracked by Rhand. If you twisted my arm right now, I'd say Rhand/KJ would be my scum team.
A little nervous about Citric. I'm like to see more posting from him.
The examples I gave were not absolute
Just a guess which at this point is moot
Because what he did do was very forthright
I see him as town with a good bit of fight
*raises hand* I'm curious what the motivation is. I also don't quite understand why it's rationally a good or bad idea in this setup. I'm not in favor of a no lynch, but that's just because we're 12 days or something from the actual deadline, and I'd like to think we'd have a good guess at that point. I'm also pretty bloodthirsty day 1 apparently. I like the info it gives on day two, especially if we have lots of interaction day 1.
In none of the above scenarios are a gunsmith/cop/strong investigative role. My strongest purpose for suggesting no lynch is when I think the ability exists, but I am not the person (because as town, scum probably think I would be that role, and I end up dead or roleblocked, wasting the purpose). So, Unvote.
Quote from MT »
In my mental model of Vaimes, town!Vaimes sees my "bestest friend" question as fluff and fluffs back about himself. While scum!Vaimes gets paranoid about it and sees it as a real question about the rest of the playerbase. And then the followup makes it even more likely that scum!Vaimes gets paranoid and tries to answer it as a real question.
In a world where Vaimes is scum, and knows you are town, how does he not see through it? You're bringing a meta argument into this, and it would seem especially if he knows you, that there is a very easy out for him to basically get you to read him as town. That is literally my biggest problem with meta reads: The rather bold assumption that people are static as scum, and couldn't possibly duplicate behavior from a previous town game.
Quote from MT »
So, GJ has made it pretty clear that his first post wasn't what he actually believed, and he was fishing for responses. Which is fine by itself, that can be a towny thing to do . . . except that the way he sprung his trap doesn't strike me as towny at all.
I am curious about your motives, because currently to me, it looks like you were looking to entangle the first player to engage you
The motivation is something that does not come out, and can trip people up. For instance, like my previous example, most scum can react to a massclaim without looking scummy. No lynch is a much more rare occurrence, and as such, can perhaps catch people off guard with how to react to it.
From what I have gathered from Animal Mafia, scum tend to either play it neutrally, or call it a bad idea, but rarely do they outright reject it, like a townie would.
Reading the thread again, I think the next most independently scummy poster after Gentleman Johnny is Mindreaver. If I could choose two wagons to pursue for the next couple IRL days, it would be those two.
This I find to be fascinating. You haven't even waited for my response before you felt fine just calling me the scummiest poster. Do you even care how I respond to you?
I'd love for the answer to that to be yes, but we'll see. Why ask me that?
Only because you mentioned your post count as well as asking me why I haven't decided on you one way or another (because you feel you're straightforward). I think the problem I'm having is that you're not really committing to anything. You defended against KJ, and that exchange was interesting, but you haven't actually pursued anybody yet. I'm just curious if you thought you were zeroing in, or had found somebody you thought was scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hey Mind: What are some things that make you think Vaimes is town?
I'm not sure I can point to anything in particular here. As I've just said he's null to me a few times.
I liked his open posting style. I don't think scum can keep that up. He made what I would have considered a joke post distancing himself from a vote. Which was rightfully pointed out by you. I didn't read the 10%/20% thing as important either way. Especially since the vote in question was like the 40th post in the whole thread.
But everything else aside, are we closer to catching scum based on his participation? Remains to be seen, I think. And that's my biggest yardstick for day one.
Well, Tom's gonna have a hard time with that one I recently started playing mafia, so I only have one completed game (Twinborn). Where I was town.
I'm having a tough time reading Tom, and it's mostly because of the rhymes. Half the time I don't know if the phrasing is scummy, or it just fit the rhyme better.
Mal I'm townreading at the moment. I like his analysis of you and of GJ. He has some good points and seems engaged in the game. I am taking his read of you seriously though, and I can't tell if your second response to his friend question was what he was trying to trap you in.
You, I'm null on. Mal says you're town. KJ also had a point on evasiveness. But I just haven't made up my mind, even with your posting frequency closer to my own. Let me ask you this. Have you caught any scum yet?
KJ, I'm very suspicious of. I'm taking a hard look at him, and was in the middle of a re-read when I got sidetracked by Rhand. If you twisted my arm right now, I'd say Rhand/KJ would be my scum team.
A little nervous about Citric. I'm like to see more posting from him.
1) I don't really see it? The exchange between the two of them feels natural a la unaligned. Vaimes's posts to GJ feel very carefree, not that he needs it for me to town-read him right now, but I don't really see the trap aspect? Like the strongest thing I see from GJ towards Vaimes is asking him what he thinks his motivations for making that post are? Unless I totally skipped over a post from him or something twice just now (because I just looked again)
Those feels when I check to see for new posts, get disappointed there isn't any, then realize it's only been 11 minutes *sticks head back into textbook*
I agree with Rhand (or rather, he agreed with me) on mindreaver's #58 being "soft". But more than that, it seems "reasonable". It looks investigative, but doesn't actually reveal anything about the gamestate, or advance scumhunting. Like, let's look at the two possibilities from mindreaver's POV:
Rhand is scum: In this case, mindreaver just threw the softest of softballs to him. He isn't putting any pressure on Rhand for the naked vote, and he isn't making him assume responsibility either.
Rhand is town: Here, mindreaver isn't giving him the benefit of the doubt. Would town!Rhand really need a specific request to provide reasoning? Maybe there's a good reason to not show his hand at that point.
So, not really advancing the cause for either case.
Its also "soft" in that its non-combative. Getting in fights early can hurt scum because it puts the spotlight on them, and starts to generate anti-alignments. Very hard for their partner to win after they go down if they spew half the game clear on their way out.
There were two other things that were making me think mindreaver was scum: trying to chase down Tom for his rhyming thing was very "I'm helping" without helping, and his post to GJ asking about nolynch was very . . . overexcused? I mean, read this again:
*raises hand* I'm curious what the motivation is. I also don't quite understand why it's rationally a good or bad idea in this setup. I'm not in favor of a no lynch, but that's just because we're 12 days or something from the actual deadline, and I'd like to think we'd have a good guess at that point. I'm also pretty bloodthirsty day 1 apparently. I like the info it gives on day two, especially if we have lots of interaction day 1.
"Just because we're 12 days away" So he would be in favor of no-lynch if we only had 48 hour phases? But then:
"I like the info it gives on day two" Nope, he should always be against it then.
"I'm also pretty bloodthirsty day 1 apparently" No, you're just playing the game.
That said, some of mindreaver's stuff since then is slightly better. Some of his reaction to pressure here isn't helpful, but
But everything else aside, are we closer to catching scum based on his participation? Remains to be seen, I think. And that's my biggest yardstick for day one.
feels more like misguided new town than scum trying to keep mislynches open? At the very least, it would be an incredibly bold way to try to keep mislynches open.
My poke at you was more "comment on gamestate" than "my stuff is super insightful and you need to look at it right away".
and you could still, uh, comment on gamestate some more. Though the fact that your sparse comments have already hit up everything notable makes me sad about how slow this game is going to be.
In a world where Vaimes is scum, and knows you are town, how does he not see through it? You're bringing a meta argument into this, and it would seem especially if he knows you, that there is a very easy out for him to basically get you to read him as town. That is literally my biggest problem with meta reads: The rather bold assumption that people are static as scum, and couldn't possibly duplicate behavior from a previous town game.
Have you met scum!Vaimes?
Also, I'm not going to clear him for something as trivial as that. But it was and is a great starting point. Meta can be toxic, but, uh, it works.
This I find to be fascinating. You haven't even waited for my response before you felt fine just calling me the scummiest poster. Do you even care how I respond to you?
I was /voting/ you. That I found you to have been the scummiest poster at the time shouldn't be new news. I do care about how you respond to me, and I trust that a little bit of pressure and an honest opinion won't keep you from responding in a useful way.
That said, your viewpoint, while slightly alien to me, seems consistent. So I'll move right on to:
ive already said why mindreaver is town
matowar, i think, is nowhere to be found
im null on johnny, perhaps slightly scum
he really let himself get caught in a scrum
i know he hates meta, and changes each game
but as scum he tends to be more urbane
rvs is long past, its quite safe to say
@kj you missed the point of that line
he responded to you, and that was just fine
its rhand and vaimes that are quite unaligned
read it again, and enter his mind
ill wait to see what rhand has to show us
but once he does, we have much to discuss
OK I'll look back at it.
running up vaimes would fill me with frown
Town react like you and tom did if they react at all.
This was his reaction to your Vaimes vote. What about this tells you he's scum with Vaimes?
This analysis seems terrible. Almost deliberately so. So I spared you one line to ask what your thought process is, because I was curious why you voted that way, which makes me scum? That's quite a leap.
Also, are these naked votes just random? Or was there more thought to them. Right now, you're voting me because:
1) You voted for vaimes without explanation
2) I had the nerve to ask what you were thinking
3) You vote me, not explaining your thought process, only stating that you were fishing for reactions
How about this. Why'd you pick Vaimes to "naked vote". You made this decision before anyone "reacted". Why?
I was trying to figure out if Vaimes and KJ were scum together, because something about that whole exchange seemed artificial to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it just seemed like it lacked conviction. I suppose it could both be town arguing a point neither really thought was going anywhere, but I do see them as aligned.
Can you say something other than "it's soft". Whatever that's supposed to mean. Also, you came out twice with Me and Vaimes, but now it's not necessarily Vaimes?
You're a mess and I've seen enough. I was waiting for you to "get to a PC" and see a better argument, but this is over the top.
Unvote, Vote Rhand
And there is the second time, since the quote disappeared.
Vaimes: tomsloger
No Lynch: Gentleman Johnny
Killjoy: Vaimes, CitricBase, Matowar77
Gentleman Johnny: mallorean_thug
Mindreaver: Rhand
Rhand: Mindreaver
Not Voting:
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
Deadline is June 7, 2016
I believe he's played in literally every game of forum mafia I've played, and several I've modded/comodded/observed besides.
Here's a recentish scumgame from him: http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/witch-hunt-12-game-thread-game-over.11347/
And here's a recent town game: http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/witch-hunt-14.12039/
I normally wouldn't link these or expect anybody to read them, but
1. Two week phases are LONG
2. Vaimed has a pretty obvious meta. Though I hear he's much better around here.
you seem to have missed that part of my post
mindreavers reaction to pressure seems reasonably town
vote: rhand while i await his promised breakdown
Votecount:
No Lynch: Gentleman Johnny
Killjoy: Vaimes, CitricBase, Matowar77
Gentleman Johnny: mallorean_thug
Mindreaver: Rhand
Rhand: Mindreaver, tomsloger
Not Voting:
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
Deadline is June 7, 2016
that both should be scum, but the reads arent connective
nailing the scumteam Day 1 is impressive
but without interaction, it seems ineffective
The softness in their posts can be a tell though. Which is why I couldn't give any reasoning at first. Did you see how his tone changed when I did call him soft?
Your reasoning for both of us is flimsier than the extremely sad one-ply toilet paper my college dorm is cursed with. Like...we're both scum for how we reacted to your naked votes? You magically caught the scumteam by doing next to nothing?
nope.jpg
...He literally just asked 'why?' to a blank vote on a person who wasn't himself. You're abruptly jumping to conclusions based on an entirely acceptable answer.
And YOU are being ridiculously over defensive and OMGUSy.
You really think Mindreaver's reactions is town? Why?
As scum, I try harder to give people what they want when I'm pressured. My jokes are more forced or self-conscious sounding. I have a much harder time crafting cases against people because I know they're town. I reflexively bus under pressure because I know my buddies are scum and I want to look good for pushing them.
Those are probabaly the most obvious tells.
1) You Vote Vaimes
2) I ask what your opinion of him is. At this point I should also supply my opinion of him?
3) You call me soft, because the tone of my one-line question
4) I respond by telling you exactly how silly that is, using more than one sentence
5) You are now saying my tone has changed.
First, I'd love to see how you could possibly gauge the tone of a single sentence. Secondly, don't you think that perhaps the reason for a "tone change" would be nothing more than "Oh look, more than one sentence to actually look at. And hey, he seems to actually have an opinion this time". Thirdly, I'm not often in the habit of asking people for their opinion and then giving them mine at the same time. I'd rather have your reasons without mine coloring them in any way. Apparently your reason was "Random naked voting designed to get a response".
This isn't your first time at the rodeo Rhand, this continues to not make any sense.
For the record I'm Null on Vaimes. I was asking because I didn't see much from him for a read in either direction, just in case you'd seen something I'd missed.
I'm wondering who this exchange benefits the most. You have managed to siphon two previously-RVS votes away from the other wagons.
its the mindset of being ready to throw down
this is not what i expect from mindreaver as scum
i can see him appeasing, or just playing dumb
Can you cite a scumgame of Mindreaver's where he appeased or played dumb?
@Mindreaver
Could you give your reads on tom, mal, and Killjoy? I know you said you're null on me, but I am the top poster and I think I've been pretty straightforward and open in my thought process; I'd like you to try a little harder to see if I'm town or scum.
I'm having a tough time reading Tom, and it's mostly because of the rhymes. Half the time I don't know if the phrasing is scummy, or it just fit the rhyme better.
Mal I'm townreading at the moment. I like his analysis of you and of GJ. He has some good points and seems engaged in the game. I am taking his read of you seriously though, and I can't tell if your second response to his friend question was what he was trying to trap you in.
You, I'm null on. Mal says you're town. KJ also had a point on evasiveness. But I just haven't made up my mind, even with your posting frequency closer to my own. Let me ask you this. Have you caught any scum yet?
KJ, I'm very suspicious of. I'm taking a hard look at him, and was in the middle of a re-read when I got sidetracked by Rhand. If you twisted my arm right now, I'd say Rhand/KJ would be my scum team.
A little nervous about Citric. I'm like to see more posting from him.
Gutread on Citrus, go.
tom, why the assumptions about what scum!Mindreaver would do?
@Mindreaver
I'd love for the answer to that to be yes, but we'll see. Why ask me that?
Just a guess which at this point is moot
Because what he did do was very forthright
I see him as town with a good bit of fight
In none of the above scenarios are a gunsmith/cop/strong investigative role. My strongest purpose for suggesting no lynch is when I think the ability exists, but I am not the person (because as town, scum probably think I would be that role, and I end up dead or roleblocked, wasting the purpose). So, Unvote.
In a world where Vaimes is scum, and knows you are town, how does he not see through it? You're bringing a meta argument into this, and it would seem especially if he knows you, that there is a very easy out for him to basically get you to read him as town. That is literally my biggest problem with meta reads: The rather bold assumption that people are static as scum, and couldn't possibly duplicate behavior from a previous town game.
The motivation is something that does not come out, and can trip people up. For instance, like my previous example, most scum can react to a massclaim without looking scummy. No lynch is a much more rare occurrence, and as such, can perhaps catch people off guard with how to react to it.
From what I have gathered from Animal Mafia, scum tend to either play it neutrally, or call it a bad idea, but rarely do they outright reject it, like a townie would.
This I find to be fascinating. You haven't even waited for my response before you felt fine just calling me the scummiest poster. Do you even care how I respond to you?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Only because you mentioned your post count as well as asking me why I haven't decided on you one way or another (because you feel you're straightforward). I think the problem I'm having is that you're not really committing to anything. You defended against KJ, and that exchange was interesting, but you haven't actually pursued anybody yet. I'm just curious if you thought you were zeroing in, or had found somebody you thought was scum.
I'm not sure I can point to anything in particular here. As I've just said he's null to me a few times.
I liked his open posting style. I don't think scum can keep that up. He made what I would have considered a joke post distancing himself from a vote. Which was rightfully pointed out by you. I didn't read the 10%/20% thing as important either way. Especially since the vote in question was like the 40th post in the whole thread.
But everything else aside, are we closer to catching scum based on his participation? Remains to be seen, I think. And that's my biggest yardstick for day one.
Nervous as in ???
Answers incoming
1) I don't really see it? The exchange between the two of them feels natural a la unaligned. Vaimes's posts to GJ feel very carefree, not that he needs it for me to town-read him right now, but I don't really see the trap aspect? Like the strongest thing I see from GJ towards Vaimes is asking him what he thinks his motivations for making that post are? Unless I totally skipped over a post from him or something twice just now (because I just looked again)
@Vaimes you owe me an answer now
Vote: Rhand
Hey Rhand, how does it feel to roll scum AGAIN?
is your townread on vaimes getting even stronger?
we need more from rhand, he should post on the double
or his scum reputation is in serious trouble
Your poems are pretty rad though
except that one time i needed corrected
I agree with Rhand (or rather, he agreed with me) on mindreaver's #58 being "soft". But more than that, it seems "reasonable". It looks investigative, but doesn't actually reveal anything about the gamestate, or advance scumhunting. Like, let's look at the two possibilities from mindreaver's POV:
Its also "soft" in that its non-combative. Getting in fights early can hurt scum because it puts the spotlight on them, and starts to generate anti-alignments. Very hard for their partner to win after they go down if they spew half the game clear on their way out.
There were two other things that were making me think mindreaver was scum: trying to chase down Tom for his rhyming thing was very "I'm helping" without helping, and his post to GJ asking about nolynch was very . . . overexcused? I mean, read this again:
"Just because we're 12 days away" So he would be in favor of no-lynch if we only had 48 hour phases? But then:
"I like the info it gives on day two" Nope, he should always be against it then.
"I'm also pretty bloodthirsty day 1 apparently" No, you're just playing the game.
That said, some of mindreaver's stuff since then is slightly better. Some of his reaction to pressure here isn't helpful, but
is more of what I'd have like to see out of him earlier in the thread.
And this:
feels more like misguided new town than scum trying to keep mislynches open? At the very least, it would be an incredibly bold way to try to keep mislynches open.
My poke at you was more "comment on gamestate" than "my stuff is super insightful and you need to look at it right away".
and you could still, uh, comment on gamestate some more. Though the fact that your sparse comments have already hit up everything notable makes me sad about how slow this game is going to be.
So far, so town.
Have you met scum!Vaimes?
Also, I'm not going to clear him for something as trivial as that. But it was and is a great starting point. Meta can be toxic, but, uh, it works.
I was /voting/ you. That I found you to have been the scummiest poster at the time shouldn't be new news. I do care about how you respond to me, and I trust that a little bit of pressure and an honest opinion won't keep you from responding in a useful way.
That said, your viewpoint, while slightly alien to me, seems consistent. So I'll move right on to:
Day1 Vote mindreaver
Yeah, Rhand is going to need to do something before we can really move forward.
I guess until then we can have proxy fights about whether mindreaver is newb!town or newb!scum?
Wowow, do you know who I forgot even existed? Matowar. If the gamestate gets stale, I'd like to run him up next.
Not that GJ has done much more. I'd like to see at least a couple reads + a vote from him.
If you want real time interaction funsies, you'll need to show up in the next 10 minutes. Otherwise I'm sleeping.
I guess that goes for Tom too. Though less so if he continues to throttle his response time with rhymes. (I'm fine with the rhymes otherwise)
What should we talk about? Should be a blast
Then, hinge off that into a thought on mindreaver's #66.
matowar, i think, is nowhere to be found
im null on johnny, perhaps slightly scum
he really let himself get caught in a scrum
i know he hates meta, and changes each game
but as scum he tends to be more urbane
I guess that fits with the "Well scum can react to massclaims, but can they react to me suggesting no-lynch?" thing.
Do you think that a Vaimes/Citrus/malthug townblock is in it to win it?