Ugh. In my very first game on this site someone said that Doctor is the most frequently fake-claimed role on this forum. I'd hate to lose a town doctor. On the other hand, I'm gonna protect Seppel, because rage-quitting is totally townie.
Unvote: Gentleman Johnny
Vote: Ghosting
What?
How is this coming from a town player in any way? I have not (and will not be) cc'ed, and you are wanting me lynched. You do realise you are hopping on a wagon very close to lynch that is a claimed doctor?
Yo're right in this regard. VT claims should get lynched, and they typically do. Though I would argue that the most common scum false-claim on here is Doc(largely because VT claims rarely save anyone).
@TS - In regards to Proph/Blos - Blos has stayed as a townread. He's been pushing ghosting, but I don't find that necessarily scummy behavior. Proph I had in the same bucket, especially as I'd just played twinborn with him, and pushed hard for a mislynch on him. Lately though, he's clearing/changing his reads based on tone, A LOT. I just don't like that, especially because the people he's clearing aren't in my "town" block:
Sorry guys, I haven't gotten to this game yet since I was buy in another one that had it's deadline today. Looking over the last couple of pages though it looks like... I'm probably gonna be the lynch. I really am town though so I'll try my best to salvage this, I'll just try to give the best reads I can and if my townieness manages to shine through, that's great, but if I still get lynch you guys will still have something more to go on.
Also I don't know if Jobie claimed yet but I might as well now. I'm a town vanilla "Civilian A" and I have an Ammo Clip item that lets me refill any limited-use items.
This feels pretty townie, but I'd like for Togs to go back through the game and give us his thoughts.
Atog's post didn't really ping me either way. I'm still waiting for a real catch-up. What good is this "feels" stuff here?
As in he's genuinely mad that he was caught? Genuinely mad that he has to leave and can't defend himself? Genuinely mad that we're on the wrong target?
I kind of rolled my eyes at the Hunger claim when I first saw/skimmed through it (oh, that's a scum pushing against the townbloc) but now that I've actually read it in more detail he brings up a number of good points about him and it reads with a fair amount of conviction. The problem is that now my reads are kind of thrown up in a jiffy - before, I thought "OK, Kraj is scum, I see no inclination to think that my reads are wrong - let's keep going!"
So his claim was suspect, his behavior was that of scum pushing against town, but he had "conviction".
I'm not in favor of a Proph lynch today, but I've got my eye there, because these aren't logical reasons. Maybe tone plays a role in deciding "I believe/don't believe ghosting's claim" type things, but scum are trying to sound town. Saying tog's post "feels pretty townie" is meaningless. It's not like he's going to come in and say "guys, I'm totes scum". If we go by tone, he sounds serious to me (no jokes, no playfulness, no nothing). Which he should be, he was almost dead today, and might be dead tomorrow. But that's not just a town trait.
@TS - In regards to Proph/Blos - Blos has stayed as a townread. He's been pushing ghosting, but I don't find that necessarily scummy behavior. Proph I had in the same bucket, especially as I'd just played twinborn with him, and pushed hard for a mislynch on him. Lately though, he's clearing/changing his reads based on tone, A LOT. I just don't like that, especially because the people he's clearing aren't in my "town" block:
Sorry guys, I haven't gotten to this game yet since I was buy in another one that had it's deadline today. Looking over the last couple of pages though it looks like... I'm probably gonna be the lynch. I really am town though so I'll try my best to salvage this, I'll just try to give the best reads I can and if my townieness manages to shine through, that's great, but if I still get lynch you guys will still have something more to go on.
Also I don't know if Jobie claimed yet but I might as well now. I'm a town vanilla "Civilian A" and I have an Ammo Clip item that lets me refill any limited-use items.
This feels pretty townie, but I'd like for Togs to go back through the game and give us his thoughts.
Atog's post didn't really ping me either way. I'm still waiting for a real catch-up. What good is this "feels" stuff here?
As in he's genuinely mad that he was caught? Genuinely mad that he has to leave and can't defend himself? Genuinely mad that we're on the wrong target?
I kind of rolled my eyes at the Hunger claim when I first saw/skimmed through it (oh, that's a scum pushing against the townbloc) but now that I've actually read it in more detail he brings up a number of good points about him and it reads with a fair amount of conviction. The problem is that now my reads are kind of thrown up in a jiffy - before, I thought "OK, Kraj is scum, I see no inclination to think that my reads are wrong - let's keep going!"
So his claim was suspect, his behavior was that of scum pushing against town, but he had "conviction".
I'm not in favor of a Proph lynch today, but I've got my eye there, because these aren't logical reasons. Maybe tone plays a role in deciding "I believe/don't believe ghosting's claim" type things, but scum are trying to sound town. Saying tog's post "feels pretty townie" is meaningless. It's not like he's going to come in and say "guys, I'm totes scum". If we go by tone, he sounds serious to me (no jokes, no playfulness, no nothing). Which he should be, he was almost dead today, and might be dead tomorrow. But that's not just a town trait.
Mindreaver you get it. I'm not saying we should lynch Blos or Proph today(although I'd vote for Blos) I'm saying stay vigilant because they haven't done anything especially towny this game. The run up on Ghosting is gross and has almost no gas at all. My Ghosting case was the real one. I caught him lying based on behavior. Doesn't mean he's scum but he admitted that the claim was fake and that the post I had a problem with was what I said it was.
The Seppel case sprung up and several people came to the same conclusion quickly. The case sounds good to be honest.
Seppel says it will create a no lynch and we've already killed scum today. So if we have 25% roll scum 75% no lynch seems like much better odds than killing a townie.
This comes across as you really wanting to find a reason to lynch me. Let me repeat: I am an un-CC'ed doctor. I will mot be CC'ed. You think your best lynch for today is the possible town Doctor? Even if you doubt my honesty, you are taking a massive risk, and quoting someone to justify lynching the doctor.
Also, for those who may not remember or didn't read, Seppel got really mad when I suggested he might be scum. Like to the point of almost flaming. I think that's yet another indication of his alignment, as I pointed out back then. He consistently has responded pretty negatively to any suggestions he could be scum.
Also, the nonstop back and forth votes. I could see this as Seppel trying to be as confusing as possible, or so that he can't be linked to necessarily one or two people.
We are not lynching a claimed doctor on day one. We can revisit this later if you guys remain bloodthirsty. We can do better. And yes, I'm taking some responsibility for this because no one else wants to.
@TS - Our back and forth is going nowhere. You aren't addressing my points, you don't seem to be understanding me, and you seem to think I'm not understanding you. It's not really doing any good and just cluttering things up when we have better stuff to focus on. I'm just going to lay it to rest since I think what we both had to say is in the thread now for anyone to see.
I get what you are saying about Blos and Proph. You are paranoid that too many people are town-clearing them. I think you are wrong that their play has been blatantly "so scummy," but I respect that you are paranoid about them. You are correct that we shouldn't give anyone a free pass outside of mechanical confirmation. At the same time, fear-mongering and saying things like, "This is looking like it might be one of those games where I have to painfully watch us lose because no one is willing to question why they town cleared people" does not help anyone and is pretty rude. The thousands (millions?) of mafia games in the world that have ended in town victory makes me believe that you are not the only player that exists that is capable of catching scum. I mean we haven't even had a lynch yet and we already have a dead scum! We are way ahead. I don't think you are giving people enough credit if you truly think that every single townie is just going to rollover and let someone coast the entire game based on part of one Day with strong posts. I think Blos is strong town at this point, sure I have paranoia and will constantly reevaluate that position. In fact, I don't really love his Ghosting or Brinatoo votes recently. I have had Proph as null to scum lean most of the game and I even spent the beginning of the game pushing him because of it. I just think their are better routes to pursue right now which makes me less interested in pushing Proph more toDay.
@Brinatoo - I don't know how likely it is Seppel and Ghosting are aligned. I don't think there is anything making me think that they must or must not be aligned at this point. I think there is probably a legitimate argument either way. Perhaps a reread will help that, but I'm not worried about it until one of them flips. That's probably a bit of a lazy response, but I'm pretty confident one of them is getting lynched toDay, so I'd rather put in the effort after the flip. That's where I'm at.
@Hunt - Thanks for the clarification.
Silver is so good. I love reading most of his posts. Very thoughtful and transparent. If he is somehow scum I will be very impressed. However, @everyone I disagree with the vote on Ghosting toDay. I think there is a very real chance he is lying and I think he has had some really bad posts and play at times and we probably get some solid info on a few players with his lynch, but there is no way I am going to be on board with lynching an un-cc'd Dr claim on D1. It's something that resolves itself. The scum can't keep him alive the entire game as it's too much of a risk that he stops shots. At the very least, if they have a RB there is a good chance he eats up their RB for as long as he is alive allowing any info roles to roam free. And with the GF out of the picture that is a huge boon in itself. If we get a few Days further into the game and still haven't hit another scum, or have no evidence he has protected anyone, or have no other role info, we can reassess. The only way he endgames is if we just roll the scum team or we get some sort of mechanical confirmation that he is town (cop, et al). If he is telling the truth, lynching him is literally the best possible outcome scum could hope for after losing their GF D1. I'm going to need a better argument to let Ghosting get lynched toDay than his claims being shady and him being alive being a headache.
I also don't approve of a Brinatoo lynch until Ghosting flips. And either way, Ghosting will flip or we just win the game. If Ghosting is scum, I don't think Brinatoo buses him that hard after the Kraj flip. So we have a way to get a really good read on Brinatoo without risking a mislynch on him.
The only non-Seppel lynch I would support toDay is Mato, but I think a Seppel lynch gives us good Mato info anyway.
The main points I want everyone to think about with Seppel right now - why is he so adamant that his laptop must be stolen and he is not OK to just pass it, and more importantly, why is he so upset about being the lynch if he is invincible and it proves his claim as he says? Especially given the little bit of meta I dug up when he had this claimed role in Symbiote and he was happy to self-vote to prove his claim. I am absolutely certain he is lying about something. His rage post reads like he does not believe that his lynch will be prevented and if he is town there is no reason to not true-claim at that point.
Also, for those who may not remember or didn't read, Seppel got really mad when I suggested he might be scum. Like to the point of almost flaming. I think that's yet another indication of his alignment, as I pointed out back then. He consistently has responded pretty negatively to any suggestions he could be scum.
Also, the nonstop back and forth votes. I could see this as Seppel trying to be as confusing as possible, or so that he can't be linked to necessarily one or two people.
If you didn't want lynched you shouldn't have gambited. Doctor is a powerful role and all, but it isn't worth getting mislynched over instead of eating the night kill. Seriously. If you had just claimed Doctor in the first place, you could have protected Mindreaver tonight and gotten us an extra vig shot tomorrow and eaten the night kill for us. Now you're at L-2 and we might waste a lynch on you for false claiming. There's also the fact that when you false claimed, you were still at like L-4 and not anywhere near in danger of actually being lynched. I'm not sure Mindreaver was considering you for the vig, either. Then, you changed claims to Doctor while you were still at L-4! Like, come on man.
As for the whole "didn't counter claim Kraj" thing, I would have bought that you didn't counter claim him because you didn't notice he had the same name as you, or something like that. This thing about you looking into the flavor and deciding there might be two Siberian Guards reeks of scum trying to play off getting caught using the same fake claim. Although the whole "I didn't want to lose my cover by admitting I false claimed" is a thing, you ended up admitting it anyway while under the same amount of pressure as you were when you false claimed in the first place! Actually, even less pressure because the vig already shot.
And like imabusinessman said, there's no guarantee that there even is a Doctor this game. Especially if Seppel and Hunger are both town (somehow), they can pass their items and act as a psuedo Doctor that way.
So, yeah. Sorry if you're town, man, but really.
@TappingStones:
I'm fine with Seppel or Ghosting today. Ghosting made his own bed here, and there will never be a better case than the one on him right now unless someone he's been buddying with flips scum or something. I think asking to confirm Seppel's claim is fair, and I won't hold you responsible for Ghosting if he flips scum.
Unvote
Vote: Seppel
I will strongly consider hammering Ghosting if he gets enough votes because it will help me confirm Atog's alignment on top of everything else, so don't run him up to L-1 unless you want him dead (He's currently at L-3).
While me gambiting may have ended up being a bad idea, it's clear that my intentions for it were genuinely good intentions: I was just trying to not eat the NK and keep the doc alive longer to make myself most useful. My inexperience clearly showed as that was a bad idea, but the reality of the situation is that I'm an un'cced town doctor who is trying to be lynched.
I think it's beyond clear we have scum pushing my lynch because they know I'll be cleared and this is their one chance to push my mislynch.
While me gambiting may have ended up being a bad idea, it's clear that my intentions for it were genuinely good intentions: I was just trying to not eat the NK and keep the doc alive longer to make myself most useful. My inexperience clearly showed as that was a bad idea, but the reality of the situation is that I'm an un'cced town doctor who is trying to be lynched.
I think it's beyond clear we have scum pushing my lynch because they know I'll be cleared and this is their one chance to push my mislynch.
Fake-claiming seems to be a lost art. Please see my first post in Mafia Classic to observe the proper method of fake claiming.
While me gambiting may have ended up being a bad idea, it's clear that my intentions for it were genuinely good intentions: I was just trying to not eat the NK and keep the doc alive longer to make myself most useful. My inexperience clearly showed as that was a bad idea, but the reality of the situation is that I'm an un'cced town doctor who is trying to be lynched.
I think it's beyond clear we have scum pushing my lynch because they know I'll be cleared and this is their one chance to push my mislynch.
Fake-claiming seems to be a lost art. Please see my first post in Mafia Classic to observe the proper method of fake claiming.
IABM-I'd like to convince you to hold off on that Ghosting vote today.
I promise a fair revisiting of it tomorrow. He's obviously screwed up pretty bad but I want a doctor alive if at all possible. If he flips doctor the scum get tons of value and it's VERY likely that scum are pushing this wagon because otherwise this lynch likely never happens.
@Prophylaxis: Can you make some definitive statements? You've said a lot without saying very much. I don't know if you want me lynched or alive, if you want to off Seppel or Hunger, etc. I feel that you're fencesitting so others can make the decision.
@Prophylaxis: Can you make some definitive statements? You've said a lot without saying very much. I don't know if you want me lynched or alive, if you want to off Seppel or Hunger, etc. I feel that you're fencesitting so others can make the decision.
That's precisely what I'm trying to figure out, myself.
So many people have given me mixed signals that I have no "smoking gun" with who to lynch. I plan to spend a little more time on this game Today rereading, so I can figure out exactly who has the best chance of flipping scum.
Sorry, man. Your doc claim and the Hunger post really rocked the boat on my view of the gamestate, and here I am hastily trying to reconstruct it.
That's precisely what I'm trying to figure out, myself.
So many people have given me mixed signals that I have no "smoking gun" with who to lynch. I plan to spend a little more time on this game Today rereading, so I can figure out exactly who has the best chance of flipping scum.
Sorry, man. Your doc claim and the Hunger post really rocked the boat on my view of the gamestate, and here I am hastily trying to reconstruct it.
No worries, I know it's been crazy here lately lol.
Hey, guys - I know the deadline is soon but I'm out of commission for at least a few days. I pulled my lower back muscles something fiercely, so moving out of bed to get to my laptop is NOT an option until this resolves itself.
Sorry for any delay that may result from this - I'll prod Matowar, though.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hey, guys - I know the deadline is soon but I'm out of commission for at least a few days. I pulled my lower back muscles something fiercely, so moving out of bed to get to my laptop is NOT an option until this resolves itself.
Sorry for any delay that may result from this - I'll prod Matowar, though.
Don't worry about us, we'll be still be arguing over whether we're lynching Seppel or Ghosting on Monday at the rate we're going.
Ah sorry I had a job interview Which I got so worth I guess
So someone is going to have to explain why letting Ghosting live for a day is a bad idea, I mean if he's telling the truth we get a protect and if he's lying we have better information to judge him on tomorrow.
I really am struggling to find a way to help town aside from my night actions, I can't feel any sort of certainty behind my reads and everytime I feel like I'm close (TS for instance) they say or do something that feels off (Appearing with Hunger who's been in stasis for many moons). -.-
I wonder if Seppel is actually just a neutral who wins if he dies? Maybe we have to take the laptop off him and kill him then he wins? That sounds too complicated, time to look at this invincible guy's fluff I guess.
Matowar-Go out on a limb and name three people for a scum team. Is there a reason your vote isn't on Seppel? Or anyone for that matter. Also I am going to insist on your participation level to increase quite a bit.
I do not believe ghosting.
I would still like to lynch brinatoo eventually.
Seppel is whatever.
I will return before deadline. Hopefully with content. Definitely with a well thought out vote.
I could see this being a play. I actually do believe Ghosting, but I still kind of want to lynch him on principal. I couldn't do it to hans in Stargate, and there were 3-4+ other investigative roles, so I don't think I could feasibly chance ghosting being scum with no other protective roles short of Seppel/Hunger....
Actually, wait a minute. Hunger, can you claim if you think your role can't exist with Ghosting/Seppels?
I do not believe ghosting.
I would still like to lynch brinatoo eventually.
Seppel is whatever.
I will return before deadline. Hopefully with content. Definitely with a well thought out vote.
I could see this being a play. I actually do believe Ghosting, but I still kind of want to lynch him on principal. I couldn't do it to hans in Stargate, and there were 3-4+ other investigative roles, so I don't think I could feasibly chance ghosting being scum with no other protective roles short of Seppel/Hunger....
Actually, wait a minute. Hunger, can you claim if you think your role can't exist with Ghosting/Seppels?
I wouldn't say they CAN'T exist together, but it seems unlikely there would be 3 protection roles on town.
Let me ask you/everyone this: How likely is it that there is item-based protection and role-based protection in the game? Like, say Ghosting and Seppel are both telling the truth and Seppel passes his laptop to Ghosting and now Ghosting is a bulletproof doc and we just feed him ammo clips to keep reloading his laptop and he can't be stopped. Or say there is item-based protection like Seppel's claimed laptop that has multiple shots and is passed to Ghosting. Is that something that could realistically exist? It's mod-gaming, so it's why I haven't really gone down that path yet because it could just lead us to a sad place with multiple dead protection roles, but it's niggling at me with Ghosting's doc claim.
Why would Seppel ask people to try to steal the laptop? He could just pass it to whoever he deems most suited to have it. And in response to me saying "Don't give me items". He expressly asks people to give him items/target him". Seems weird. "Hey I'm really powerful and have something useful!" then "Please someone protect my super useful item that I told the scum about for no reason".
I know he lies a lot as town but he said he can't be lynched so I'd like to test that. If he's telling the truth then the day ends with us up 1-0 on the scum team going into night! If he was lying and flips scum we are 2-0 going into night! If he is lying as town then that would be just as bad as Ghosting and I'd have to ask that town be more careful going forward as you are really making it hard to read the game.
I want to test the Ghosting claim and see what we have there. I thought he was strongly town before but the case is pretty compelling and I'm willing to admit a bad meta clear and be happy to be wrong here.
I am going to suggest that everyone in the game decide between Ghosting/Seppel/Atog. We know there is a cop in the game, or coplike unless Kraj was the type of bulletproof godfather. I think turning over more roles with so many out means we wil lose what little hidden information the town has. Hidden information in smaller quantities (such as roles) is GOOD for the town.
I am going to suggest that everyone in the game decide between Ghosting/Seppel/Atog. We know there is a cop in the game, or coplike unless Kraj was the type of bulletproof godfather. I think turning over more roles with so many out means we wil lose what little hidden information the town has. Hidden information in smaller quantities (such as roles) is GOOD for the town.
And I'm going to suggest that you don't decide on Ghosting right now unless someone cc's him. We are likely to get info from Seppel's slot and whatever happens tonight. We can re-examine the Ghosting case tomorrow. I want to see if he can protect Mindreaver.
I am going to suggest that everyone in the game decide between Ghosting/Seppel/Atog. We know there is a cop in the game, or coplike unless Kraj was the type of bulletproof godfather. I think turning over more roles with so many out means we wil lose what little hidden information the town has. Hidden information in smaller quantities (such as roles) is GOOD for the town.
And I'm going to suggest that you don't decide on Ghosting right now unless someone cc's him. We are likely to get info from Seppel's slot and whatever happens tonight. We can re-examine the Ghosting case tomorrow. I want to see if he can protect Mindreaver.
I am voting Seppel right now. I already think he is telling the truth short of a direct counterclaim. The Hunger thing intrigues me, but if the day were to end tonight, I would go Seppel right now.
I'm trying to work out why Seppel wants the laptop taken off him. Just having a confirmed invincible town would be useful right? So I have no problem lynching him in the hopes his claim is true and we can clear him.
I'm not sure how helpful my night action is I kinda just force people to play pass the parcel, but I think I have an idea of how I'm supposed to use it and I think I know who to use it on
I believe Seppel more than Hunger at the moment, if you're lying I would hate to be in Hunger's position when night comes along, It feels like he's taking too much of a gamble counterclaiming with a protection role possibly outed already. I don't like it, It feels like there are too many people lying in this game
You didn't accurately respond to my requests Matowar.
What are votes looking like right now? By my count, I'm L-3, Seppel's L-1? Maybe scum are afraid to hammer after we just caught one of their buddies?
Unless I'm miscounting, you've only got 2 votes now (Bloscovi, imabusinessman) and Seppel's at L-2 (Hunger, Huntzilla, Mindreaver, TappingStones, Me, GJ). But I went through the votes in a bit of a hurry, so I could be wrong.
Unless I'm miscounting, you've only got 2 votes now (Bloscovi, imabusinessman) and Seppel's at L-2 (Hunger, Huntzilla, Mindreaver, TappingStones, Me, GJ). But I went through the votes in a bit of a hurry, so I could be wrong.
I'm also voting for Seppel, but I didn't count any unvotes/vote switches on me, just saw someone say I was L-3 (maybe it was you a while ago? or Hunger, I can't remember). So Seppel at least I think is L-1, but I guess I'm not close lol.
It's come to my attention that GHOSTING did not Unvote Jobie before Voting Seppel, which means that this lynch is technically invalid - BUT, since we've already had a flip, I'm going to let it slide this one final time.
The next person who moves their Vote without Unvoting first loses their vote for the Day.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seppel tapped away furiously at the keys on his laptop. Janus may be dead, but MI6 are still hot on the trail of the people he once colluded with. Best to clean this mess up.
Seppel finished up his data erasure and began to leave the underground bunker, but was halted by a Russian soldier.
"Where do you think you are going, comrade?"
"I'm getting out of here, and you should, too!" Seppel continued to walk, but a bullet rang out against the wall in front of him.
"Not so fast!"
"Don't shoot! Trevelyan made me do it!" Seppel put his hands in the air.
Before the Russian could do anything else, though, the secret bomb in Seppel's pen (which had fallen out of his pocket in his panic) exploded, killing the guard, and rupturing a cryogenic tank. Seppel, however, remained unscathed.
He struck a victory pose and yelled, "YES! I am INVINCIBLE!", only to have the cryogenic tank freeze him on the spot.
Well, then.
-
Seppel has been lynched. He was Boris Grishenko.
It is now Night 1. Night actions are due to me within 72 hours of this post.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not counting yours because you didn't unvote from Jobie
But yeah, I don't think you're close anymore. I did say you were at L-3 but I got ninja'd by Proph., so you might have 4 now, not two, if I made a mistake just now but was right earlier.
Last official vote count was Ghosting (5): Brinatoo, Prophylaxis, not_a_gimmick, Bloscovi, Silvercrys3467
Then I moved to Seppel, Proph Unvoted, imabusinessman got on.
So now it should be Ghosting (4): Brinatoo, not_a_gimmick, Bloscovi, imabusinessman
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"007, I must leave quickly. They're on to my cover, and I can't be seen with you."
"Very well. Thank you, Dr. Doak. Your country owes you a great deal."
Moments later, a bullet was heard.
imabusinessman has been killed. He was Dr. Doak, Town.
-
"Traitor...traitor!"
"Me, a traitor? I should remind you who you are speaking to, Colonel," said Mindreaver icily.
"I have seen the pictures! I have seen the money! You have betrayed our country, General!" shrieked the Colonel. He opened fire with his KF7, killing Mindreaver with prejudice.
Mindreaver has been killed. He was General Ourumov, Protagonist.
-
The deadline has been set for July 10th at 0000 hours EST.
It is now Day 2. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No he isn't.
Atog's post didn't really ping me either way. I'm still waiting for a real catch-up. What good is this "feels" stuff here?
As in he's genuinely mad that he was caught? Genuinely mad that he has to leave and can't defend himself? Genuinely mad that we're on the wrong target?
So his claim was suspect, his behavior was that of scum pushing against town, but he had "conviction".
I'm not in favor of a Proph lynch today, but I've got my eye there, because these aren't logical reasons. Maybe tone plays a role in deciding "I believe/don't believe ghosting's claim" type things, but scum are trying to sound town. Saying tog's post "feels pretty townie" is meaningless. It's not like he's going to come in and say "guys, I'm totes scum". If we go by tone, he sounds serious to me (no jokes, no playfulness, no nothing). Which he should be, he was almost dead today, and might be dead tomorrow. But that's not just a town trait.
Mindreaver you get it. I'm not saying we should lynch Blos or Proph today(although I'd vote for Blos) I'm saying stay vigilant because they haven't done anything especially towny this game. The run up on Ghosting is gross and has almost no gas at all. My Ghosting case was the real one. I caught him lying based on behavior. Doesn't mean he's scum but he admitted that the claim was fake and that the post I had a problem with was what I said it was.
The Seppel case sprung up and several people came to the same conclusion quickly. The case sounds good to be honest.
Seppel says it will create a no lynch and we've already killed scum today. So if we have 25% roll scum 75% no lynch seems like much better odds than killing a townie.
This comes across as you really wanting to find a reason to lynch me. Let me repeat: I am an un-CC'ed doctor. I will mot be CC'ed. You think your best lynch for today is the possible town Doctor? Even if you doubt my honesty, you are taking a massive risk, and quoting someone to justify lynching the doctor.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Also, the nonstop back and forth votes. I could see this as Seppel trying to be as confusing as possible, or so that he can't be linked to necessarily one or two people.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I get what you are saying about Blos and Proph. You are paranoid that too many people are town-clearing them. I think you are wrong that their play has been blatantly "so scummy," but I respect that you are paranoid about them. You are correct that we shouldn't give anyone a free pass outside of mechanical confirmation. At the same time, fear-mongering and saying things like, "This is looking like it might be one of those games where I have to painfully watch us lose because no one is willing to question why they town cleared people" does not help anyone and is pretty rude. The thousands (millions?) of mafia games in the world that have ended in town victory makes me believe that you are not the only player that exists that is capable of catching scum. I mean we haven't even had a lynch yet and we already have a dead scum! We are way ahead. I don't think you are giving people enough credit if you truly think that every single townie is just going to rollover and let someone coast the entire game based on part of one Day with strong posts. I think Blos is strong town at this point, sure I have paranoia and will constantly reevaluate that position. In fact, I don't really love his Ghosting or Brinatoo votes recently. I have had Proph as null to scum lean most of the game and I even spent the beginning of the game pushing him because of it. I just think their are better routes to pursue right now which makes me less interested in pushing Proph more toDay.
@Brinatoo - I don't know how likely it is Seppel and Ghosting are aligned. I don't think there is anything making me think that they must or must not be aligned at this point. I think there is probably a legitimate argument either way. Perhaps a reread will help that, but I'm not worried about it until one of them flips. That's probably a bit of a lazy response, but I'm pretty confident one of them is getting lynched toDay, so I'd rather put in the effort after the flip. That's where I'm at.
@Hunt - Thanks for the clarification.
Silver is so good. I love reading most of his posts. Very thoughtful and transparent. If he is somehow scum I will be very impressed. However, @everyone I disagree with the vote on Ghosting toDay. I think there is a very real chance he is lying and I think he has had some really bad posts and play at times and we probably get some solid info on a few players with his lynch, but there is no way I am going to be on board with lynching an un-cc'd Dr claim on D1. It's something that resolves itself. The scum can't keep him alive the entire game as it's too much of a risk that he stops shots. At the very least, if they have a RB there is a good chance he eats up their RB for as long as he is alive allowing any info roles to roam free. And with the GF out of the picture that is a huge boon in itself. If we get a few Days further into the game and still haven't hit another scum, or have no evidence he has protected anyone, or have no other role info, we can reassess. The only way he endgames is if we just roll the scum team or we get some sort of mechanical confirmation that he is town (cop, et al). If he is telling the truth, lynching him is literally the best possible outcome scum could hope for after losing their GF D1. I'm going to need a better argument to let Ghosting get lynched toDay than his claims being shady and him being alive being a headache.
I also don't approve of a Brinatoo lynch until Ghosting flips. And either way, Ghosting will flip or we just win the game. If Ghosting is scum, I don't think Brinatoo buses him that hard after the Kraj flip. So we have a way to get a really good read on Brinatoo without risking a mislynch on him.
The only non-Seppel lynch I would support toDay is Mato, but I think a Seppel lynch gives us good Mato info anyway.
The main points I want everyone to think about with Seppel right now - why is he so adamant that his laptop must be stolen and he is not OK to just pass it, and more importantly, why is he so upset about being the lynch if he is invincible and it proves his claim as he says? Especially given the little bit of meta I dug up when he had this claimed role in Symbiote and he was happy to self-vote to prove his claim. I am absolutely certain he is lying about something. His rage post reads like he does not believe that his lynch will be prevented and if he is town there is no reason to not true-claim at that point.
As for the whole "didn't counter claim Kraj" thing, I would have bought that you didn't counter claim him because you didn't notice he had the same name as you, or something like that. This thing about you looking into the flavor and deciding there might be two Siberian Guards reeks of scum trying to play off getting caught using the same fake claim. Although the whole "I didn't want to lose my cover by admitting I false claimed" is a thing, you ended up admitting it anyway while under the same amount of pressure as you were when you false claimed in the first place! Actually, even less pressure because the vig already shot.
And like imabusinessman said, there's no guarantee that there even is a Doctor this game. Especially if Seppel and Hunger are both town (somehow), they can pass their items and act as a psuedo Doctor that way.
So, yeah. Sorry if you're town, man, but really.
@TappingStones:
I'm fine with Seppel or Ghosting today. Ghosting made his own bed here, and there will never be a better case than the one on him right now unless someone he's been buddying with flips scum or something. I think asking to confirm Seppel's claim is fair, and I won't hold you responsible for Ghosting if he flips scum.
Unvote
Vote: Seppel
I will strongly consider hammering Ghosting if he gets enough votes because it will help me confirm Atog's alignment on top of everything else, so don't run him up to L-1 unless you want him dead (He's currently at L-3).
I think it's beyond clear we have scum pushing my lynch because they know I'll be cleared and this is their one chance to push my mislynch.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Fake-claiming seems to be a lost art. Please see my first post in Mafia Classic to observe the proper method of fake claiming.
IABM-I'd like to convince you to hold off on that Ghosting vote today.
I promise a fair revisiting of it tomorrow. He's obviously screwed up pretty bad but I want a doctor alive if at all possible. If he flips doctor the scum get tons of value and it's VERY likely that scum are pushing this wagon because otherwise this lynch likely never happens.
So a poor neutral fake claim which had the intentions of saving a town pr (me) means I should be lynched?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Also, sorry for triple posting, but I figured it'd have been long enough at this point.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
That's precisely what I'm trying to figure out, myself.
So many people have given me mixed signals that I have no "smoking gun" with who to lynch. I plan to spend a little more time on this game Today rereading, so I can figure out exactly who has the best chance of flipping scum.
Sorry, man. Your doc claim and the Hunger post really rocked the boat on my view of the gamestate, and here I am hastily trying to reconstruct it.
No worries, I know it's been crazy here lately lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@Mod/Iso: Is Matowar77 on V/LA? If not, can you prod him? Last post was ~9 PM on the 12th
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Are you intentionally softclaiming that you can help town with your night actions?
Do you believe Seppel or Hunger?
Do you believe that highly specific scenario you postulated? That Seppel is a neutral who needs the laptop taken off of him then him killed?
Do you support a Seppel lynch?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Sorry for any delay that may result from this - I'll prod Matowar, though.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Rest up, we'll be here when you get back.
Matowar-Go out on a limb and name three people for a scum team. Is there a reason your vote isn't on Seppel? Or anyone for that matter. Also I am going to insist on your participation level to increase quite a bit.
I would still like to lynch brinatoo eventually.
Seppel is whatever.
I will return before deadline. Hopefully with content. Definitely with a well thought out vote.
I could see this being a play. I actually do believe Ghosting, but I still kind of want to lynch him on principal. I couldn't do it to hans in Stargate, and there were 3-4+ other investigative roles, so I don't think I could feasibly chance ghosting being scum with no other protective roles short of Seppel/Hunger....
Actually, wait a minute. Hunger, can you claim if you think your role can't exist with Ghosting/Seppels?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Let me ask you/everyone this: How likely is it that there is item-based protection and role-based protection in the game? Like, say Ghosting and Seppel are both telling the truth and Seppel passes his laptop to Ghosting and now Ghosting is a bulletproof doc and we just feed him ammo clips to keep reloading his laptop and he can't be stopped. Or say there is item-based protection like Seppel's claimed laptop that has multiple shots and is passed to Ghosting. Is that something that could realistically exist? It's mod-gaming, so it's why I haven't really gone down that path yet because it could just lead us to a sad place with multiple dead protection roles, but it's niggling at me with Ghosting's doc claim.
Why would Seppel ask people to try to steal the laptop? He could just pass it to whoever he deems most suited to have it. And in response to me saying "Don't give me items". He expressly asks people to give him items/target him". Seems weird. "Hey I'm really powerful and have something useful!" then "Please someone protect my super useful item that I told the scum about for no reason".
I know he lies a lot as town but he said he can't be lynched so I'd like to test that. If he's telling the truth then the day ends with us up 1-0 on the scum team going into night! If he was lying and flips scum we are 2-0 going into night! If he is lying as town then that would be just as bad as Ghosting and I'd have to ask that town be more careful going forward as you are really making it hard to read the game.
I want to test the Ghosting claim and see what we have there. I thought he was strongly town before but the case is pretty compelling and I'm willing to admit a bad meta clear and be happy to be wrong here.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And I'm going to suggest that you don't decide on Ghosting right now unless someone cc's him. We are likely to get info from Seppel's slot and whatever happens tonight. We can re-examine the Ghosting case tomorrow. I want to see if he can protect Mindreaver.
I am voting Seppel right now. I already think he is telling the truth short of a direct counterclaim. The Hunger thing intrigues me, but if the day were to end tonight, I would go Seppel right now.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You didn't accurately respond to my requests Matowar.
And how is forcing someone to pass their item in any sense town?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'm also voting for Seppel, but I didn't count any unvotes/vote switches on me, just saw someone say I was L-3 (maybe it was you a while ago? or Hunger, I can't remember). So Seppel at least I think is L-1, but I guess I'm not close lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
The next person who moves their Vote without Unvoting first loses their vote for the Day.
I'm serious. Cut that ***** out.
-
Votecount:
Ghosting (4): Brinatoo, not_a_gimmick, Bloscovi, imabusinessman
Jobie (1): Seppel
Seppel (7): Hunger, Gentleman Johnny, Mindreaver, TappingStones, Ghosting, Huntzilla, Silvercrys3467
That is a lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seppel finished up his data erasure and began to leave the underground bunker, but was halted by a Russian soldier.
"Where do you think you are going, comrade?"
"I'm getting out of here, and you should, too!" Seppel continued to walk, but a bullet rang out against the wall in front of him.
"Not so fast!"
"Don't shoot! Trevelyan made me do it!" Seppel put his hands in the air.
Before the Russian could do anything else, though, the secret bomb in Seppel's pen (which had fallen out of his pocket in his panic) exploded, killing the guard, and rupturing a cryogenic tank. Seppel, however, remained unscathed.
He struck a victory pose and yelled, "YES! I am INVINCIBLE!", only to have the cryogenic tank freeze him on the spot.
Well, then.
-
Seppel has been lynched. He was Boris Grishenko.
It is now Night 1. Night actions are due to me within 72 hours of this post.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But yeah, I don't think you're close anymore. I did say you were at L-3 but I got ninja'd by Proph., so you might have 4 now, not two, if I made a mistake just now but was right earlier.
Last official vote count was
Ghosting (5): Brinatoo, Prophylaxis, not_a_gimmick, Bloscovi, Silvercrys3467
Then I moved to Seppel, Proph Unvoted, imabusinessman got on.
So now it should be
Ghosting (4): Brinatoo, not_a_gimmick, Bloscovi, imabusinessman
I guess. So L-4.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
More cracks were heard.
Finally, a shattering.
Seppel has broken free from his cryogenic stasis!
Seppel is alive again.
"Aha! I am invincible!"
-
"007, I must leave quickly. They're on to my cover, and I can't be seen with you."
"Very well. Thank you, Dr. Doak. Your country owes you a great deal."
Moments later, a bullet was heard.
imabusinessman has been killed. He was Dr. Doak, Town.
-
"Traitor...traitor!"
"Me, a traitor? I should remind you who you are speaking to, Colonel," said Mindreaver icily.
"I have seen the pictures! I have seen the money! You have betrayed our country, General!" shrieked the Colonel. He opened fire with his KF7, killing Mindreaver with prejudice.
Mindreaver has been killed. He was General Ourumov, Protagonist.
-
The deadline has been set for July 10th at 0000 hours EST.
It is now Day 2. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What would you like to claim now?
Also a heartfelt thank you to whoever shot businessman.