2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Jobie was sort of coasting and had some poor interactions with Kraj, who got dayvigged and flipped Godfather. Right now you've got a few votes on you but your wagon stalled because half the game is lurking and a couple people want Brinatoo instead.
Nothing major he says, just a little something he says. I only have access to phone so I'll have to answer bit by bit I guess:
TS seems like his usual semi-angry town self, aside from the getting upset bit. I see next to no difference from AA and he's helping to contribute
I think I believe GJ's claim as neutral, though I wonder how James Bond can not be town in regards to NAG :S
I'm real sceptical on the number of neutrals and wonder if Ghosting or Proph is lying but we'll see, Ghosting's play hasn't really changed from AA which has been bugging me for a while now, I think I commented on at some point
I think Mind is town, the offering to give up his gun seemed too casual to be from an SK or scum mindset.
Hmm maybe the real James Bond is too terrified to counterclaim and NAG is lying? No that's too ballsy.
Then again on the same note I feel like IABM gets the award for ballsiest scum player in the world.
Jobie has completely failed to react under any sort of pressure and I'm not too keen on the little play he's given. (I know call the kettle black, why don't I)
Hunt's actual improvement is nice and his tendency to get run up from play style is starting to show here so I'm fine with where he's at.
I have absolutely no clue how Seppel plays this game, so I'm gonna stay as far away from him as possible and hope someone else know what to think of him.
GJ's far too lurky and devoid of his usual clever charm, I'm pretty suspicious that he hasn't been run up by anyone yet, I have him as lean scum for now.
I'm not trying to be mean, sorry if it comes across that way.
It's more that the first set of reads was basically picking the most consensus things to say without original thought.
It's not so much about /helping/ as it is about showing your thought process and where you are in the game, so that we can try to figure out your alignment.
Like. Finish up the exercise, if you could, and then draw conclusions based on your thoughts.
If you had a gun with 3 bullets in it, and you had to fire the gun and shoot 3 different people, who do you shoot?
If you don't hit at least 2 mafia, the game immediately ends, town loses.
Try to explain your thought process in why you picked those three names as thoroughly as you can.
I'll get to catching up later this evening. Anything anyone wants to direct my attention to in the meantime ?
Not particularly, other than I'm pretty sure you and Matowar are competing for deadline lynch on Saturday. Unless the Brinatoo wagon gets traction (NaG just started pushing it on the last page).
Although if you have any thoughts on Brinatoo, Seppel, Ghosting, or Huntzilla while you're catching up, we could use them. Those are sort of the hot topics at present. I should be around for a few more hours if you want to talk about anything.
Claim time!
I am Pakistani Gun Dealer.
I have two abilities, which I'll do my best to paraphrase:
1) I can target a player who is dead and, if they have an item, I get that item. If I use this ability, I can't use my second ability during the same night.
2) I can target a player and give them an item. If I do this, that player can't be targeted by other night actions. If I use this ability, I can't use my first ability during the same night.
I also have an Ammo Clip (which I can't expend).
I win when I have expended three items.
My flavour mentions how I just want to make money and am unaffiliated with any side. It also mentions a disdain towards Janus.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask away.
Misread it as two items to expend not three the first time through. So here's some scenarios- with only being allowed to use one per night, he is bound to atleast 6 nights if noone hands him items to expend. Let's do the standard scenario with this setup ignoring vigshots/other neutrals/item passing/Mafia NK blocked for now.
1. Night 1 Target D1 Lynch. 15 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 14.
2. Night 2 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 13 Players remain with a lynch and first expended item, Mafia NK brings to 12.
3. Night 3 Target another dead player from 4/5 current bodycount. 11 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 10.
4. Night 4 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 9 Players remain with a lynch and second expended item, Mafia NK brings to 8.
5. Night 5 Target another dead player from 7/9 current bodycount. 7 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 6.
6. Night 6 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 5 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 4. Win Condition Met.
Without any outside assistance and a normal scenario, he would need to survive till Day 7. Yea I don't believe that at all now. Coupled with 2 other neutral claims, a vigshot, needing passed items, the dead bodies require an item on them, if he found/was given an item with 0-charges he'd have to wait until the next night to pass it because of using the ammo clip, and with mafia against him in both NK threat and voting majority lategame, it would be unrealistic to meet that win condition the majority of the time. The only few things to stall it out is multiple ways of town protecting themselves from mafia NK and/or multiple no-lynches. I don't like modgaming but this is an absolute extreme. How I view it, he's lying because he would NEED to have the town help him reach this (like 80-90% of the time if I had to guess) which would force him to openly seek out more items and avoid the mafia threat at the same time. Too bastardly. So he's scum. If someone has undeniable proof that I'm wrong, they should speak up now. Vote: Ghosting
I wanted to be the hammer in case there was a quick wagon with opportunistic votes on him (which there could have been because his wagon was 4 votes at its peak iirc.) I was watching Mindreaver's wagon with the same mindset/considering my scumreads. And if I have to explain myself even further about this I think you're not understanding my position and should figure it out. if you can't touch this.
I'm returning after a long hiatus and was just wondering if gimmicks are still a frequent occurrence? Don't know who is actually new.
Ah yes, this is what started me on this track.
Look at my user name. Did anyone think I might be new?
This type of question is purposefully null.
I would have no way of knowing if you are being sarcastic with your name or not. I'm sure it's happened before where someone was literal with their name and was misinterpreted as experienced. Depends on the person's personality behind their name-deciding process. This conversation is meaningless and reaching at best.
From the beginning you explain James Bond could be, by flavor, a very powerful role. Then you proceed to call this fake. Sure, he could have a plan or idea based on his role (for example he knows James Bond isn't among the populace and takes it as his own to indicate flavor-town or draws NKs from mafioso) but that is far-fetched and too many assumptions, but what you say after doesn't indicate this thought process. You ask others if town would do this and point out he could be a vanilla drawing fire for a NK and then under this circumstance say he is trying too hard. Because of the order of how you did this, and the discrepancies of thought process- I lean heavily scum mindset from this post.
...
He thought you were faking the claim then proposed a vanilla town NK theory which was "trying too hard." "Seems fake to me." is tied together with "vanilla eat a night kill trying too hard" and "very powerful role" is tied together with "would town do that?" I have a hard time believing a townie would post those 4 in THAT order.
...
I think if TS is scum, NaG is town. The conversation between them doesn't ring buddies to me at all.
I feel like I'm supposed to be somewhere.
Somewhere pockety.
Like I'm in it.
I don't understand what you mean by this so you'll have to rephrase it if you want a rebuttal.
I missed the name of the guy I was voting for. That's a little too sloppy for me, even around RVS. Slowed it back down a bit. Let's hear a response.
I assume the "slowdown" is also why you didn't revote the correct player?
I understand your confused reaction at the James Bond claim. It's a natural, townie reaction to wonder why on earth a townie would do such a thing. Why didn't you give any thought to why a scum would? What does "trying too hard" mean?
On one hand you're confused about why NAG would claim the name in the game for no apparent reason and think through the reasons aloud. On the other hand, you're confident enough that it's either "fake" and "trying too hard", or a "terrible move", and you vote. The reasoning is flimsy, and the "lying or playing badly" accusation is a false dichotomy scum love to use. Combine that with the sloppiness of getting the name wrong, and the backpedaling 'slowdown', it looks a lot less like trying to figure the situation out and a lot more like fear of James Bond.
I agree with how wishywashy the statements are but don't believe this is a natural, townie reaction as I described above. I believe it is a natural error by scum.
Distancing himself from kraj in an odd way. Like, hes agreeing but coming to different conclusions.
This is too strange to call it a tell though.
Especially with this next post:
Bloscovi is here because Ghosting and [reasons].
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
How can you trust Bloscovi's opinions if you don't have a strong town read on him?
He's sowing doubt about barning bloscovi's ghosting read, but doesn't mention barning my brinatoo read.
He's being careful. We'll come back to this.
I don't like how in the space of 2 hours Silver changed his read of Blos/Hunt from null to lean town. Especially towards Blos it feels like buddying up to avoid pressure after a loaded-gun question. Also just now liking Blos's wagon after asking only one question regarding it is too suspicious. Unvote
Vote Silvercrys
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
@bloscovi I know how much you like this tell.
Is brinatoo in doubt about your alignment here?
Expecially after doubtcasting your ghosting read to proph in his last post.
This whole TS/ghosting casual responses thing is just trying to find a reason.
Or its crap.
I never said I doubted/agreed with Blos's Ghosting read at that point in the game. I did question Proph's reasoning behind barning Blos's opinions. He has openly barned Blos on a much more frequent level than he has barned your reads. I don't even remember him barning any other read that you had except the one that was on me.
I plan on being MC Hammer. I spend most of that wall talking about the interactions between them to figure out TS's motives towards Ghosting for either townbuddying or scumbuddying and believe the latter. Two critical reasons led me to reread in that manner. TS's comment towards me "slow-voting Ghosting" and me thinking Blos's scumread about the early GJ townread was a potential scumfind. In addition to my first reread on the matter and thinking your prod on him and the content to follow was suspect. With the recent interactions I believe bussing.
The obvious thing here is that he cares about his position on the wagon.
But theres also a setup to keep scumreading the two of them forever. Regardless of any flips.
Like, he's decided that these are his reads.
And you know what? No one can really fault him for them.
I think brinatoo found the safest people to attack short of businessman. And its all kind of... meaningless. Whatever you think of tappingstones and ghosting, you look at brinatoo's posts and go "Sure. Thats a thing a person could think."
But he isn't taking it any further than that. He's been rehashing the same things for the whole day.
Then get to your case, stop being lovestruck. And how do you like your meat? I like mine either medium well or well done
And look. Now that I've commented on letting him marinate, he acknowledges it.
You know who changes their behavior when someone talks about it?
I've already explained my stance on TS, but with Kraj's flip I have mixed feelings on the early interaction between the two. I hate to believe a townie would treat me this way + everything else. To say I'm not taking Ghosting's case any further is completely false, and saying I'm just rehashing the case is also completely false. Him arguing the same points with me in circles isn't the same as me rehashing something. I've pointed out other points along the way and I think this post is my strongest case against him.
And I shouldn't have to activityprod someone to do their own cases, it was getting annoying seeing Proph talk about getting to looking at me earlier in the day and you doing the same is even more annoying.
The Brinatoo ISO is devoid. It's a tunnel of me and it seems he becomes aware that I was a dead wagon and started trying to slowly move to the Ghosting wagon. I even predicted it IN THREAD, before he mentions that he would be done for a Ghosting lynch he unvotes. I quickly respond to the unvote that I predict he will be moving to Ghosting. Even though there isn't clear evidence he will do this. It's just my feeling and I wanted to see how he'd react.
I still don't see how a townie would openly taunt me to make a move and read Ghosting like that.
@Brinatoo:
I noticed at the bottom of your #1052 you were suggesting lurkers to vig shot, but didn't mention Kraj or Jobie in favor of trying to push the vig onto Matowar or IMAB. Specifically, you preferred Matowar over IMAB. Why?
I had Kraj as a light townread and didn't want a vigshot on him. Jobie had more content/reads than Mato/IMAB and I didn't think he was impairing. I'll have to iso Jobie myself to get an opinion on what others are claiming about him. Mato above IMAB because IMAB was, just at that point, developing reads and Mato was still not being helpful.
Sorry I guess I should elaborate on GJ Play wise he seems scummy but flavour wise it's a believable claim as lovers. He could be scum with a cool lover safeclaim As if anyone wants to lynch James Bond. Actually that has too many flaws. Err I guess I should just have him as neutral then?
I think I would shoot Ghosting, I don't believe his neutral claim and he could still be scum with a salvage ability, then again that alternate win con seems unlikely to be fake forget this.
IABM, Hunger and then you or Proph leaning Proph I think. Give me a chance to read through again and these will probably change a bit
Absolutely nothing was said in this post. Literally every single read is "I think they're scummy, but then again they're not. Never mind!"
I had Kraj as a light townread and didn't want a vigshot on him. Jobie had more content/reads than Mato/IMAB and I didn't think he was impairing. I'll have to iso Jobie myself to get an opinion on what others are claiming about him. Mato above IMAB because IMAB was, just at that point, developing reads and Mato was still not being helpful.
That's fair. I like the way you're thinking about Ghosting, too, I had a similar thought but hadn't done the math yet. Hmm.
I'm going to keep my vote on Jobie/Atog for the moment, but I'm still down for a Ghosting lynch if that wagon picks up traction. I think he's the scummiest player who's actually saying things.
Sorry I guess I should elaborate on GJ Play wise he seems scummy but flavour wise it's a believable claim as lovers. He could be scum with a cool lover safeclaim As if anyone wants to lynch James Bond. Actually that has too many flaws. Err I guess I should just have him as neutral then?
I think I would shoot Ghosting, I don't believe his neutral claim and he could still be scum with a salvage ability, then again that alternate win con seems unlikely to be fake forget this.
IABM, Hunger and then you or Proph leaning Proph I think. Give me a chance to read through again and these will probably change a bit
Absolutely nothing was said in this post. Literally every single read is "I think they're scummy, but then again they're not. Never mind!"
Personally, I was not a fan of the way he (sort of) explained his reads on three people, then said he'd shoot three different people with no explanation of his reads on them. I don't think it's an alignment tell, though, and like Proph said there are (likely) zero worlds where scum!Matowar carries the game. I think he was just trying to show what he was thinking about those players.
Having said that, if scum!Matowar solos town in LyLo I'll make a formal apology in the post-game.
I hadn't actually fully thought through the numbers, but I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't fit. He's either lying about something and trying to frame it as being pro-town, or he's just straight up mafia.
Jobie-slot is probably more likely to be actual mafia by a little bit, but it'd be pretty poor form to immediately lynch someone after they replace in, I guess.
And Matowar... I don't even know.
I'm really struggling to parse his posts from any kind of town or scum mindset.
Yes, it's fence-sitty.
I don't especially care.
He's probably going to have to die at some point, but it doesn't have to happen today.
---
I'm still trying to wrap my head around that Brinatoo post, but I think I like it. I don't think that Ghosting push is scum/scum, at least. And I think it's more likely to come from town who genuinely believes he caught something rather than scum who would know Ghosting isn't scum.
Claim time!
I am Pakistani Gun Dealer.
I have two abilities, which I'll do my best to paraphrase:
1) I can target a player who is dead and, if they have an item, I get that item. If I use this ability, I can't use my second ability during the same night.
2) I can target a player and give them an item. If I do this, that player can't be targeted by other night actions. If I use this ability, I can't use my first ability during the same night.
I also have an Ammo Clip (which I can't expend).
I win when I have expended three items.
My flavour mentions how I just want to make money and am unaffiliated with any side. It also mentions a disdain towards Janus.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask away.
Misread it as two items to expend not three the first time through. So here's some scenarios- with only being allowed to use one per night, he is bound to atleast 6 nights if noone hands him items to expend. Let's do the standard scenario with this setup ignoring vigshots/other neutrals/item passing/Mafia NK blocked for now.
1. Night 1 Target D1 Lynch. 15 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 14.
2. Night 2 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 13 Players remain with a lynch and first expended item, Mafia NK brings to 12.
3. Night 3 Target another dead player from 4/5 current bodycount. 11 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 10.
4. Night 4 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 9 Players remain with a lynch and second expended item, Mafia NK brings to 8.
5. Night 5 Target another dead player from 7/9 current bodycount. 7 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 6.
6. Night 6 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 5 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 4. Win Condition Met.
Without any outside assistance and a normal scenario, he would need to survive till Day 7. Yea I don't believe that at all now. Coupled with 2 other neutral claims, a vigshot, needing passed items, the dead bodies require an item on them, if he found/was given an item with 0-charges he'd have to wait until the next night to pass it because of using the ammo clip, and with mafia against him in both NK threat and voting majority lategame, it would be unrealistic to meet that win condition the majority of the time. The only few things to stall it out is multiple ways of town protecting themselves from mafia NK and/or multiple no-lynches. I don't like modgaming but this is an absolute extreme. How I view it, he's lying because he would NEED to have the town help him reach this (like 80-90% of the time if I had to guess) which would force him to openly seek out more items and avoid the mafia threat at the same time. Too bastardly. So he's scum. If someone has undeniable proof that I'm wrong, they should speak up now. Vote: Ghosting
I wanted to be the hammer in case there was a quick wagon with opportunistic votes on him (which there could have been because his wagon was 4 votes at its peak iirc.) I was watching Mindreaver's wagon with the same mindset/considering my scumreads. And if I have to explain myself even further about this I think you're not understanding my position and should figure it out. if you can't touch this.
I'm returning after a long hiatus and was just wondering if gimmicks are still a frequent occurrence? Don't know who is actually new.
Ah yes, this is what started me on this track.
Look at my user name. Did anyone think I might be new?
This type of question is purposefully null.
I would have no way of knowing if you are being sarcastic with your name or not. I'm sure it's happened before where someone was literal with their name and was misinterpreted as experienced. Depends on the person's personality behind their name-deciding process. This conversation is meaningless and reaching at best.
From the beginning you explain James Bond could be, by flavor, a very powerful role. Then you proceed to call this fake. Sure, he could have a plan or idea based on his role (for example he knows James Bond isn't among the populace and takes it as his own to indicate flavor-town or draws NKs from mafioso) but that is far-fetched and too many assumptions, but what you say after doesn't indicate this thought process. You ask others if town would do this and point out he could be a vanilla drawing fire for a NK and then under this circumstance say he is trying too hard. Because of the order of how you did this, and the discrepancies of thought process- I lean heavily scum mindset from this post.
...
He thought you were faking the claim then proposed a vanilla town NK theory which was "trying too hard." "Seems fake to me." is tied together with "vanilla eat a night kill trying too hard" and "very powerful role" is tied together with "would town do that?" I have a hard time believing a townie would post those 4 in THAT order.
...
I think if TS is scum, NaG is town. The conversation between them doesn't ring buddies to me at all.
I feel like I'm supposed to be somewhere.
Somewhere pockety.
Like I'm in it.
I don't understand what you mean by this so you'll have to rephrase it if you want a rebuttal.
I missed the name of the guy I was voting for. That's a little too sloppy for me, even around RVS. Slowed it back down a bit. Let's hear a response.
I assume the "slowdown" is also why you didn't revote the correct player?
I understand your confused reaction at the James Bond claim. It's a natural, townie reaction to wonder why on earth a townie would do such a thing. Why didn't you give any thought to why a scum would? What does "trying too hard" mean?
On one hand you're confused about why NAG would claim the name in the game for no apparent reason and think through the reasons aloud. On the other hand, you're confident enough that it's either "fake" and "trying too hard", or a "terrible move", and you vote. The reasoning is flimsy, and the "lying or playing badly" accusation is a false dichotomy scum love to use. Combine that with the sloppiness of getting the name wrong, and the backpedaling 'slowdown', it looks a lot less like trying to figure the situation out and a lot more like fear of James Bond.
I agree with how wishywashy the statements are but don't believe this is a natural, townie reaction as I described above. I believe it is a natural error by scum.
Distancing himself from kraj in an odd way. Like, hes agreeing but coming to different conclusions.
This is too strange to call it a tell though.
Especially with this next post:
Bloscovi is here because Ghosting and [reasons].
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
How can you trust Bloscovi's opinions if you don't have a strong town read on him?
He's sowing doubt about barning bloscovi's ghosting read, but doesn't mention barning my brinatoo read.
He's being careful. We'll come back to this.
I don't like how in the space of 2 hours Silver changed his read of Blos/Hunt from null to lean town. Especially towards Blos it feels like buddying up to avoid pressure after a loaded-gun question. Also just now liking Blos's wagon after asking only one question regarding it is too suspicious. Unvote
Vote Silvercrys
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
@bloscovi I know how much you like this tell.
Is brinatoo in doubt about your alignment here?
Expecially after doubtcasting your ghosting read to proph in his last post.
This whole TS/ghosting casual responses thing is just trying to find a reason.
Or its crap.
I never said I doubted/agreed with Blos's Ghosting read at that point in the game. I did question Proph's reasoning behind barning Blos's opinions. He has openly barned Blos on a much more frequent level than he has barned your reads. I don't even remember him barning any other read that you had except the one that was on me.
I plan on being MC Hammer. I spend most of that wall talking about the interactions between them to figure out TS's motives towards Ghosting for either townbuddying or scumbuddying and believe the latter. Two critical reasons led me to reread in that manner. TS's comment towards me "slow-voting Ghosting" and me thinking Blos's scumread about the early GJ townread was a potential scumfind. In addition to my first reread on the matter and thinking your prod on him and the content to follow was suspect. With the recent interactions I believe bussing.
The obvious thing here is that he cares about his position on the wagon.
But theres also a setup to keep scumreading the two of them forever. Regardless of any flips.
Like, he's decided that these are his reads.
And you know what? No one can really fault him for them.
I think brinatoo found the safest people to attack short of businessman. And its all kind of... meaningless. Whatever you think of tappingstones and ghosting, you look at brinatoo's posts and go "Sure. Thats a thing a person could think."
But he isn't taking it any further than that. He's been rehashing the same things for the whole day.
Then get to your case, stop being lovestruck. And how do you like your meat? I like mine either medium well or well done
And look. Now that I've commented on letting him marinate, he acknowledges it.
You know who changes their behavior when someone talks about it?
I've already explained my stance on TS, but with Kraj's flip I have mixed feelings on the early interaction between the two. I hate to believe a townie would treat me this way + everything else. To say I'm not taking Ghosting's case any further is completely false, and saying I'm just rehashing the case is also completely false. Him arguing the same points with me in circles isn't the same as me rehashing something. I've pointed out other points along the way and I think this post is my strongest case against him.
And I shouldn't have to activityprod someone to do their own cases, it was getting annoying seeing Proph talk about getting to looking at me earlier in the day and you doing the same is even more annoying.
The Brinatoo ISO is devoid. It's a tunnel of me and it seems he becomes aware that I was a dead wagon and started trying to slowly move to the Ghosting wagon. I even predicted it IN THREAD, before he mentions that he would be done for a Ghosting lynch he unvotes. I quickly respond to the unvote that I predict he will be moving to Ghosting. Even though there isn't clear evidence he will do this. It's just my feeling and I wanted to see how he'd react.
I still don't see how a townie would openly taunt me to make a move and read Ghosting like that.
@Brinatoo:
I noticed at the bottom of your #1052 you were suggesting lurkers to vig shot, but didn't mention Kraj or Jobie in favor of trying to push the vig onto Matowar or IMAB. Specifically, you preferred Matowar over IMAB. Why?
I had Kraj as a light townread and didn't want a vigshot on him. Jobie had more content/reads than Mato/IMAB and I didn't think he was impairing. I'll have to iso Jobie myself to get an opinion on what others are claiming about him. Mato above IMAB because IMAB was, just at that point, developing reads and Mato was still not being helpful.
How are you reading Seppel, anyway? Uninvested townie? I have him lean town right now, but the lack of caring about his reads one way or the other is a major eyebrow raiser.
This is where I'm at right now, I think. People are clustered into tiers, and roughly in order within the tiers.
---
-I think Jobie is very likely scum with Kraj based on the interactions. His response to me asking him about Kraj and voting him strongly indicates weak bussing, as later on he votes Mindreaver over Kraj, while still calling Kraj scummy. I just don't really want to immediately lynch a replacement without at least giving them a chance. Seems poor form, given it's going to be a slog to read through.
-I think it's very likely Ghosting is just straight up Mafia. If he's neutral, he's anti-town, or at least not telling the complete truth. His role requires too much help from town to win in a reasonable time frame, and I don't think it exists in the form he's claiming. If we have useful items for town, I'd rather pass them around to actual town members rather than help a neutral who we can't fully trust, in the best-case-scenario.
-Hunger is mostly PoE scum, who had some slightly odd interactions with Kraj. I want him to post more, and play the game more.
-I don't think Brinatoo is scum with Ghosting. The mechanics/numbers post he had above is a very weird line to take to bus, when there's sufficient behavioral analysis to push the line. If Ghosting is a neutral that goes out the window a little bit, but I really think Brinatoo /believes/ that he's caught Ghosting with the math, and that's enough to make me at least consider he could be town.
-I don't fully know what to make of Matowar. My gut says town, because he just completely and utterly lacks any kind of appeasement or self-preservation. I'm not saying never lynch him. I'm just... saying I think he's a really easy target to push, and I think he's less likely to be scum than the names below him.
-Huntzilla is uh. Squishy. I don't like the Matowar push he's doing, I don't like how he barns the case on Jobie, and then peels off to list an entire different scum team that doesn't include Jobie. I do like that he put in the effort to read the meta game link at least somewhat earlier in the game, and I've liked some of his reasoning in posts. This is a read I need to strengthen further, because it's pretty much -shrug- territory.
-Seppel is Seppel. I don't like the claim. I don't like the claim that he was originally a survivor and then it got retconned. I don't like the push on Matowar. I don't like that he continually forgets his reads. But unfortunately literally all of that can come from town Seppel who is either just scatterbrained, or trying to be too clever for his own good. Gut says he's town, just because he's been more carefree/blase/indifferent than I'd expect from Scum!Seppel. There's not a lot of motivation in his posts, he's just kind of going with it.
-TappingStones is probably town by virtue of activity and Kraj interactions. I think his reads have been terrible all game, but that's not alignment indicative in the least. (He's been pushing for myself, Proph, Silver as scum for a large chunk of the game, and all three are almost certainly town)
-GJ is not mafia. He claimed under no pressure, and when reasonably town read. I believe the neutral claim from him, and believe his paranoia about getting shot early given the town reads he was accumulating, and his recent early game deaths.
-NAG is not mafia. That Kraj push on him was really weird. His reads have mirrored mine pretty strongly, and I've liked how he's thinking about the game consistently from early on. Neutral, town, I don't know, but I don't think he's mafia, so I don't want him dead.
-Proph is just town. His play this game is far outside of his reasonable scum range, and his back and forth with me a page or two ago confirms that too me. He's carefree, he's confident, he's playing a pretty good game. I don't think he reacts to Kraj's fairly genuine sounding pre-vig-flip post with the '****, he's going to flip town, isn't he?' if he knows Kraj's alignment. It was a pretty genuine reaction, and Proph is very, very solidly twn.
-SilverCrys has been a remarkable bastion of effort and analysis since he replaced in, and Hardwood was a light town read even prior to that. I do want to go back and look at who all was pushing on Hardwood and Silver, because I'd bet there's scum in there somewhere.
-Mindreaver shot Kraj. With all the neutral claims, I consider it super unlikely he's a SK or something.
How are you reading Seppel, anyway? Uninvested townie? I have him lean town right now, but the lack of caring about his reads one way or the other is a major eyebrow raiser.
I address this in the post I just made, but I think he's....probably? Town.
Nothing he's done is outside his town range or his scum range, and I don't love some of the stuff he's done (including the Matowar push), but Scum Seppel usually just has more...motivation to his posts, rather than just posting whatever he feels like. It's hard to fully articulate, but I've been reasonably successful at reading him in the past.
But I think he's probably town. I hate pretty much literally everything about how he's playing this game (Why do you even sign up for games if you're going to intentionally not play them? How is that fun in any way, and how is it fair to the people you're playing with?), but his conviction regarding the flavor thing is pretty strong, and he is occasionally interjecting thoughts, even if he's not doing anything with them. I think the fact that he's not trying to do anything with his occasional interjections makes him more town, since... how does he win as scum in this world? He will eventually get lynched if he refuses to play, and he's not going to do anything to further his win condition during the day phase, as no one is going to remotely listen to him or take him seriously with his chosen playstyle. Like yes, yes, the intentional WiFOM, but I don't think he quite does it like this as scum.
We are confirmed for totally outplaying the scum. It explains so much. The lack of strong wagons is because all the active posters are townie. The lack of counterwagons because all the scum are lurking.
Say what you want, but we're going lurker hunting this game.
[b]@Bloscovi[/b] Here's my opinion of that Kraj post:
[b]Vote: Kraj{/b]
[b]@Kraj, Proph, Brinatoo, Hunger[/b] Pick a number 1-25, there is likely a wrong answer, but there may not be a right answer. If you do not respond within your next two posts you will be voted for.
I have updated my notes, I want to see where this Kraj deal goes. I'm also interested in Matowar.
There is waaaaaay to much unprompted role info ITT. Loose lips sink ships, folks.
The above is him responding (pretty fast) to my inquiry about Kraj, with a vote, but no push. Hum.
Jobie - ???. I've got literally nothing. He dropped his vote on Kraj and vanished. He's pushing nothing, and making minimal attempt to figure anything out. He's a fairly plausible scumbuddy of Ghosting for the way he dismissed the wagon on him in one of his few posts, maybe.
I'm useless on D1. Like as an analyst.
Also, the seriousness of my # question did not turn out as I hoped. I think this lends credence to the "Iso doesn't want/like mod-gaming". Hunger's lack of desire to answer annoys me, I could be swayed towards voting him.
Can you point to my dismissal of the Ghosting wagon, because I don't remember doing that?
if the Ghosting wagon had any strength behind it, it would have persevered through my one-liner.
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
if the Ghosting wagon had any strength behind it, it would have persevered through my one-liner.
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
Big thumbs up to that first sentence. I like you.
Why matowar though? Does my "noob trying to improve" hard clear not do it for you?
/Head desk
I'm not a huge fan of noob clearing. However, I meant Mindreaver, I read the wrong row of my spreadsheet.
[B]unvote, Vote: Mindreaver[/B]
Hum. Thoughts? I could see it.
I see what you see and I strongly agree with you on this. Jobie and Matowar should die. Hunger too. And I don't exactly get the Brinatoo case, but I don't have him as town, so he can die too.
[b]Vote Jobie/Atog.[/b]
I don't have a strong scumread on Hunt because, despite playing to his scum meta, I actually like the things he's posting. Wait, that's exactly what happens when he's scum. Whatever. I just have a gut feeling that he's town, mostly because the above four deaths should win us the game. There's just not enough players to fit Hunt into the scumteam.
Also still not sure what to think about GJ/NAJ. Is there any way for us to know if they're both neutral? I feel like this is something that could cause town a loss at the end if not considered. I don't think he's our best choice for a lynch today though.
Not completely unreasonable, but the town would have to be considerably down in the hole for me to consider turning on the town. Shooting a mafia pre-night 1 means that situation might never happen.
Quote from IMAB »
Gentleman Johnny is a lover with scum. The only reason why he claimed is because if he gets NK' then a member of the mafia team will die as well.
So are you saying I am neutral, and NAG is scum? That seems super bastardly, dont-ya-think?
Quote from TS »
I like that.
UNVOTE; VOTE:Brinatoo
I'm curious if anyone has a strong town read on him.
I have a lean town read on him. Most of his questions have felt good to me, and he was participating a decent amount in the early game.
Quote from matowar »
GJ's far too lurky and devoid of his usual clever charm, I'm pretty suspicious that he hasn't been run up by anyone yet, I have him as lean scum for now.
To be fair: 1). I'm not town. and 2). My "clever charm" got me the nickname of Gentleman "3 trial" Johnny.
Sorry I guess I should elaborate on GJ Play wise he seems scummy but flavour wise it's a believable claim as lovers. He could be scum with a cool lover safeclaim Grin As if anyone wants to lynch James Bond. Actually that has too many flaws. Err I guess I should just have him as neutral then?
How so? If you took away my claim, and assumed I was simply busy, explaining my low post count, does your read change on me? Or is it only because I claimed non-town AND I am not posting a ton?
Quote from BLos »
Hum.
I want Ghosting dead.
I hadn't actually fully thought through the numbers, but I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't fit. He's either lying about something and trying to frame it as being pro-town, or he's just straight up mafia.
I think the part about sneaking in the "disdain of Janus" looks suspiciously like he is trying to nudge towards being a more "pro-town" neutral.
Quote from Seppel »
I don't have a strong scumread on Hunt because, despite playing to his scum meta, I actually like the things he's posting. Wait, that's exactly what happens when he's scum. Whatever. I just have a gut feeling that he's town, mostly because the above four deaths should win us the game. There's just not enough players to fit Hunt into the scumteam.
He has been gathering votes in past games, as town, for not posting a ton. Why do you not think it's possible that townHunt is trying to be a stronger poster? Like, if you keep getting voted to claim range/lynched for not posting a ton as town, what do you think changes?
Lovers have an incentive for a quick conclusion. If we assume there are 3 scum left (which would be what I would consider the max number remaining), it's better for them to coordinate with town. If we were sucking, and killing each other instead, they might push mislynches to end the game quickly.
For now, I don't think they are a Lynch target.
Ghosting is actually the opposite. Assuming he can pass every night, which is a stretch at this point, he's 4 nights from a win. It's in his best interest for the game to continue as long as possible. This is day one, and if we mislynch today, he can probably win with us. If we Lynch correctly though, he's going to run out of time.
He's not going to win the game by being killed. Buy he can't be fully trusted either, since his opinions could be trying to push mislynches(even if he doesn't know the scum team).
He's not a good target for today's lynch. He might even eat a night kill if a good enough item ends up in his possession.
@TS. What does the scum team comprise of in your eyes? Specifically in regards to blos and proph. I'd concede that it's possible they are scum together but it doesn't leave a lot of room for a lot of people I'm suspicious of. Also, can you comment on your fake scum chat post after the shot but before the flip? That post read really strange to me. On the one hand it could be town playfully trying to link kraj and blos, but my other possibility was that you were selling a scum buddy down the river because his flip was inevitable.
Laughing at Blos saying my reads have been off when I was the only one pushing Kraj for scum early on.
I mean, your Kraj push was based on interactions with you (so basically OMGUS) and you've spent the rest of the game trying to fit Blos and Proph on various scum teams. In town!Blos town!Proph world, you've been devoting large amounts of energy to pushing townies.
Although you never really pushed me, just expressed suspicion and put me in the nulls you wanted to sift through once.
I'm not 100% town clearing either of them, but I think they're unlikely to flip scum, especially compared to Jobie/Atog and Ghosting.
Lovers have an incentive for a quick conclusion. If we assume there are 3 scum left (which would be what I would consider the max number remaining), it's better for them to coordinate with town. If we were sucking, and killing each other instead, they might push mislynches to end the game quickly.
For now, I don't think they are a Lynch target.
Ghosting is actually the opposite. Assuming he can pass every night, which is a stretch at this point, he's 4 nights from a win. It's in his best interest for the game to continue as long as possible. This is day one, and if we mislynch today, he can probably win with us. If we Lynch correctly though, he's going to run out of time.
He's not going to win the game by being killed. Buy he can't be fully trusted either, since his opinions could be trying to push mislynches(even if he doesn't know the scum team).
He's not a good target for today's lynch. He might even eat a night kill if a good enough item ends up in his possession.
In Mafia classic, One of the neutrals had to eliminate the mafia team and another neutral had to eliminate the werewolf team. I ran a game where the neutral had to name two people and if themselves or one of their two named players got to the end, then the neutral won.
You're assuming that the neutral's goal is to survive to the end however the neutrals could have other goals.
@Mindreaver: I have no issue no posting and just doing as town says if you're worried I'm going to try to push mislynches. I'd like to help town, but if me posting will just be interpreted as pushing a mislynch, I'm happy to just sit and do as I'm told.
Seppel is right. The scum are likely reeling and will not make waves today.
In that vein, I want people to give reasons based on interactions for their scum reads. You can't use "lurking" as a scum read, it's too easy for scum to use this as something we can't interact with later. I want to hear reasons, based on quotes.
No more hiding behind "lynch a lurker arguments". It's not that we wont lynch one, it's that everyone needs to be on record after the Kraj flip giving in-depth reasoning why. Not just "Yeah, Jobie has been lurking, we got him boys!".
Seppel is right. The scum are likely reeling and will not make waves today.
In that vein, I want people to give reasons based on interactions for their scum reads. You can't use "lurking" as a scum read, it's too easy for scum to use this as something we can't interact with later. I want to hear reasons, based on quotes.
No more hiding behind "lynch a lurker arguments". It's not that we wont lynch one, it's that everyone needs to be on record after the Kraj flip giving in-depth reasoning why. Not just "Yeah, Jobie has been lurking, we got him boys!".
I would be ok with claiming so in so is alurker, get 'em, but then they have to explain why player y is exhibiting town tells. Kraj lurking was part of it, town reading everyone else also played a role in that catch, I would say.
Seppel is right. The scum are likely reeling and will not make waves today.
In that vein, I want people to give reasons based on interactions for their scum reads. You can't use "lurking" as a scum read, it's too easy for scum to use this as something we can't interact with later. I want to hear reasons, based on quotes.
No more hiding behind "lynch a lurker arguments". It's not that we wont lynch one, it's that everyone needs to be on record after the Kraj flip giving in-depth reasoning why. Not just "Yeah, Jobie has been lurking, we got him boys!".
Gentleman Johnny is scum because he wants his townread, me, to get vigged. Then claimed he wants to work with town. Do neutrals who want to work with town ask that their townreads get vigged? The answer is no.
If GJ is a lover with another neutral he's never gonna claim because claiming "I'm neutral and I'm gonna work with town" is gonna get you Nightkilled faster than a teenager in a Freddy Kreuger film.
This is a normal game. Have you ever heard of a normal game giving out fake-claims for the scum team? If there are fake-claims being given out to scum teams in a Normal game then this game has been mis-classified. Do you think Iso mis-classified this game? And yet there's N-A-G (and somebody else who's name I'm forgetting) spouting off nonsense about how there are fake claims in a Normal Game. Both NAG and Gentleman Johnny are scum.
Seppel is right. The scum are likely reeling and will not make waves today.
In that vein, I want people to give reasons based on interactions for their scum reads. You can't use "lurking" as a scum read, it's too easy for scum to use this as something we can't interact with later. I want to hear reasons, based on quotes.
No more hiding behind "lynch a lurker arguments". It's not that we wont lynch one, it's that everyone needs to be on record after the Kraj flip giving in-depth reasoning why. Not just "Yeah, Jobie has been lurking, we got him boys!".
Gentleman Johnny is scum because he wants his townread, me, to get vigged. Then claimed he wants to work with town. Do neutrals who want to work with town ask that their townreads get vigged? The answer is no.
If GJ is a lover with another neutral he's never gonna claim because claiming "I'm neutral and I'm gonna work with town" is gonna get you Nightkilled faster than a teenager in a Freddy Kreuger film.
This is a normal game. Have you ever heard of a normal game giving out fake-claims for the scum team? If there are fake-claims being given out to scum teams in a Normal game then this game has been mis-classified. Do you think Iso mis-classified this game? And yet there's N-A-G (and somebody else who's name I'm forgetting) spouting off nonsense about how there are fake claims in a Normal Game. Both NAG and Gentleman Johnny are scum.
This is some really obvious stuff.
I've never played with the "lover" mechanic before, if both are scum then what is the upside to the role? I would think if there isn't some massive power somewhere else that would imply 5 scum? For example if we lynched one of those two on day one could that be half the scum team? I don't think that's a likely outcome. I'm not honestly a fan of neutrals anyway. I like the idea of town vs. scum, but whatever.
What is the upside for lovers?
How likely is three neutrals based on the number of players in this game?
Who is on the similar page with me lynch target wise at the moment?
@Hunt - No as in not at all Russian or as in you aren't going to answer?
Is everyone reading the Ghosting claim incorrectly or am I?
His wincon is to EXPEND items, not pass items.
By using his 2nd ability, he is NOT furthering his wincon. He has no incentive to use his 2nd ability because it doesn't further his wincon and it makes him lose an item that he could otherwise EXPEND to actually further his wincon.
There is a decent chance his 2nd ability doesn't even exist and he added it in to make it look like he could be pro-town. However, if that's the case, I'm not sure why he would keep the expend phrasing in there and not change it to something like pass or whatever. I just don't get how that ability exists. It's very difficult to prove and even if it is proven, he sets his wincon back at least another Day to maybe possibly gain a little bit of trust from the town. I guess if he has an item that he has expended and doesn't have an ammo clip he may as well try to give it to someone and protect them to further the game and possibly gain some trust.
I think he is either lying or "expend" doesn't mean what I think it does. And if that's the case and he actually has to pass the items to win, I am thinking along the lines of what Brinatoo posted, which means he is still likely lying.
And if I'm right about "expend" then it's fishy as hell that he hasn't yet corrected anyone on it. Unless, he doesn't understand his own role? I can't imagine Iso wouldn't correct him if that's the case.
Also, if everything he says is somehow legit, he still needs to make sure the game doesn't end too fast that he doesn't have a chance to win, so there is still the possibility if we lynch another scum he will actively try to NOT lynch scum after that in fear of ending the game.
@Ghosting - Please clarify your role. Ask the mod if you have to. Also, if you are withholding anything, out with it now.
I think I'm probably just on board with lynching Ghosting either way. If he is neutral as he says, it gives us a better read on Brinatoo at the worst.
I still want to lynch Mato. I do get the argument that he is not endgaming as scum, but at the same time I just think he is scum and would rather lynch him now instead of giving him a chance to use any ability he may have and
give the scum team less options for the NK in case we have a watcher or some such. Also, see below for more.
I also want to lynch Jobie/Atog as well, but agree it's against the spirit of the replace to not let Atog catch up and give him a chance at least. If the slot is town it would be great to be able to get that read and not mislynch him.
I think the case against Brinatoo was good, but probably want to see if Ghosting is scum first since I don't think that analysis post comes from scum busing scum.
But I want to lynch Seppel the most. Among other things that I will get to, this role related stuff is really bothering me about Seppel
Also I might as well come out in full that I _need_ a watcher on me. Or someone to protect items from being stolen. Or a townie that can steal items. Or someone who can prevent my item from being stolen. Because of my item (laptop computer), I guarantee that there's at least one of those roles in the game, likely one town and one scum with those roles.
Basically my laptop can't fall into mafia hands because it makes its holder unlynchable and unkillable. I'm Boris Grishenko and true to my character's catchphrase "I'M INVINCIBLE!" I am in fact invincible.
While I hold it, I have unlimited uses of it, but it becomes a one-shot item if someone else comes into possession of it.
So, if someone replies to this post with "I can help you," then you've gained my complete trust. This laptop is a liability that needs to be dealt with before things go south.
@Seppel:
You said Blos is obviously town, do you know his meta too or is there something more than that?
The role PM formatting issues he mentioned match up directly with my role PM formatting issues. I have zero reason to believe a scum could make that up.
@Hunger: My role PM also had an incorrect win condition (survive to endgame) which Iso graciously corrected to the standard town wincon... without actually telling me what it is, so I assume it's in to OP.
@everyone-I'd prefer you don't pass me anything. I'm paranoid of getting killed in the first few days and i'd rather the scum don't reap any extra benefits.
Feel free to pass me stuff, though. Until my laptop is stolen, I'm pretty much an item storage box.
1. If he is so worried about the laptop falling into the wrong hands, why not just pass it to someone he trusts instead of hoping someone town steals it, especially if he is paranoid about a scum being able to steal? Like, why claim it if that's a legit fear?
2. Why even be that nervous about losing it? It makes him invincible town so mafia can never get rid of him and worse case scenario he is right about someone thieving, we all know it's been thieved, and anyone that is unlynchable just is the thief and we lynch them the next day?
3. He claimed Boris, who is one of the top Janus agents. I claimed Xenia, also a top Janus agent. I know I am town and converted, but at the risk of putting scrutiny on my own claim, it seems odd to me that multiple top Janus agents would all defect. Who is left flavor-wise to be scum?
4. I have been soft-claiming unkillable as well specifically to see what Seppel would do about it. I would think town Seppel would be trying to push a cc against me, but despite casually calling me scum all game he has never actually pushed me. And I mean, 2 ex-Janus unkillable townies? Why wouldn't he find that odd? I do.
5. He doesn't mention the "good guy" thing at all until Bloscovi and even then he never explicitly says that's in his role pm. In fact, he specifically says his role was retconned to say Town. So how does that make the good guy thing more likely to be town?
6. He claims that he was changed from neutral to town mid-game? Mod-gaming, but really?
7. Why would he believe all 3 neutral claims if he was himself a neutral at the start of the game? Like, does he actually think Iso made the game with 4 neutrals and then partway into it was like, "shoot, this isn't balanced, you are town now." If I was a neutral to start the game like Seppel says, I would be MORE skeptical of the neutral claims thinking Iso would start the game with 4 neutrals. Also, I just feel like Iso wouldn't let this happen.
8. Why the hell would people pass him stuff if he wants to get rid of his laptop?
@Bloscovi - So, you pointed out the same thing re:Seppel as I did above. On top of that though, you have the exact opposite meta read as I do. I find scum Seppel to be much more blase/forgetful than town Seppel. I was scum with Seppel in Vagrant Story and he got me lynched D2 because he didn't know I was on his team and even said in scum chat that Night something along the lines of, "oh *****, I didn't know Hunger was on our team." I posted earlier in the game that I thought Seppel was probably town due to him actually paying attention to the game and not organizing lists and stuff. That has been fading a bit with some of his reads and I'm starting to get more paranoid of him. Like this,
[[Waiting on answers from - 7]] IMAB, Jobie, Brinatoo, Mindreaver, Hunger, Kraj, Bloscovi.
Hope that clears things up
This is what I expect out of a scum Seppel. He loves organizing things and make it look like he is all about the town and doing things democratically as scum. It's also presenting Matowar as THE vig option by not considering the other suggestions.
And after the Kraj vig, he hasn't brought Mato up despite others being OK with his lynch and Seppel pushing him hard as the vig option. He said multiple times that he is for sure scum.
I think he saw Mato as a sinking ship that he could get the town cred for trying so hard to vig him, but now he can't push another one of his buddies to go down D1.
YOU ARE MISSING THE FUNDAMENTAL FACT THAT WE HAVE TO LYNCH SCUM TO WIN. If someone is going to flip scum, you don't try to find a better lynch. Rarely does the order of lynching scum ever matter. Always, ALWAYS pick the best and most likely scum candidate for lynch.
I really liked Kraj's earlier posts but he's dropped off, and the vote on not_a_gimmick purely based on flavorgaming kind of makes me want to shake Kraj and go "WHY".
More than that, it's voteworthy.
Despite not voting him or pushing him to be the vig. There are also more Kraj references if you iso him.
And when you questioned Mato on Seppel he simply says he hasn't played with him before so will reserve judgment. Seems like a pretty typical scum-buddy fence sit position. I think if one of Mato/Seppel is scum they likely both are.
Couple this with the weirdness around his role/my role and I think he is a pretty solid bet for the "deep scum."
I think the rest of the scum is likely in here: Mato/Seppel > Jobie/Brinatoo/Ghosting/Hunt - Though that second pile will probably change depending on if Mato/Seppel flip scum and the game is still going. And I still don't fully trust the lovers.
Holy crap Ghosting looks like you caught us!!!! Can you please just vote Mindreaver? He's a double-roleblocker. My other buddies are Kraj (poisoner), Matowar (ascetic), and Hunger (quadruple voter)!!!!! Thanks for the game it was fun but Ghosting is really just too good for us I'm sure he'll top8 in ProTourGPNorthKorea looks like I should just play at DieStoreMoval until I get better at this forum game of mafia, clearly MTGS is way too pro for me
Don't you miss Manders though? You could play over there... with the 7 others that are left.
I will laugh really hard though if you just named your team. Seems like a ballsy Seppel move to pull.
ARE YOU KIDDING I WOULD NEVER DO THAT, THATS GAMETHROWING!!
EBWOP: The one thing I'm hesitant on is that Seppel true-claimed his role and so we can't lynch him or prove anything by trying to lynch other than he has at least one shot of unlynchable.
I've never played with the "lover" mechanic before, if both are scum then what is the upside to the role? I would think if there isn't some massive power somewhere else that would imply 5 scum? For example if we lynched one of those two on day one could that be half the scum team? I don't think that's a likely outcome. I'm not honestly a fan of neutrals anyway. I like the idea of town vs. scum, but whatever.
What is the upside for lovers?
There isn't one. If they are both scum one of them would have to provide an extra kill or something to balance. Or there would have to be 5 scum, one of the two.
How likely is three neutrals based on the number of players in this game?
Well, it's not impossible. Especially considering that two of them are Lovers, so they both die to a single lynch or night kill. Like, the game could be set up as a 15 man that way with 16 people or something.
Who is on the similar page with me lynch target wise at the moment?
Not me. I'm sort of ambivalent towards Brinatoo and I don't want Blos dead at all.
I don't remember who asked, but I don't need to expend three items to win, just need to pass three. I was paraphrasing and (incorrectly) used expend and pass as synonyms. I sent Iso a PM to double check that and something else (I want to see if I win, if items I have leave the game with me, in case you guys don't want Seppel's laptop existing at all for example).
In case you guys want in game confirmation of this, I'll ask Iso in thread as well: @Iso: Do items leave the game with me if I win?
I don't think you are that naive to think Iso would confirm your role with a question like that.
The question itself is manipulative in the sense that you want us to believe that you believe your question. But I don't believe that this is an honest question.
I don't think you are that naive to think Iso would confirm your role with a question like that.
The question itself is manipulative in the sense that you want us to believe that you believe your question. But I don't believe that this is an honest question.
UNVOTE whoever; VOTE:GHOSTING
Or, I don't want people saying "You're lying, you made up that Iso answered you". This saves me that trouble. It's more of a mechanic question than a role question, so I don't see why he won't answer it.
I feel like you're really just wanting to hop on any wagon that has an inkling of traction. :/
I want to catch people with behavior. I've only pressed toward you when you've displayed behavior that sets my alarms off. For example there are people pushing hard for Jobie but I haven't found a spot where his behavior warranted it.
We will see what we will see.
Now to be fair to you. If you are indeed as pro town as you claim to be then how about setting us up to finish off the scum and getting an "honorary" win postgame.
Give us an honest, final T/S list Where do we go after this lynch?
I want to catch people with behavior. I've only pressed toward you when you've displayed behavior that sets my alarms off. For example there are people pushing hard for Jobie but I haven't found a spot where his behavior warranted it.
We will see what we will see.
Now to be fair to you. If you are indeed as pro town as you claim to be then how about setting us up to finish off the scum and getting an "honorary" win postgame.
Give us an honest, final T/S list Where do we go after this lynch?
Proph could be the deep scum, but I've been townreading him for a while and am just saying that because I don't think people should just dismiss him as entirely town. However, congrats to him if he is, because he's been playing a good game.
If I'm lynched, all that happens is I flip neutral and you guys will probably lynch Brinatoo tomorrow. Mato should be lynched asap as I'm like 99% sure he's scum and he has done absolutely nothing to defend his case; his replies have only made it worse. Jobie hasn't been playing well at all and had the Kraj/Mato slip that furthers my belief him and Mato are scum.
I genuinely promise I'm not scum, I am a very useful role to the town and would love to help you guys out. Promises mean nothing, but I would hope we don't lynch someone who is kind of a doctor and dies as soon as I stop cooperating. I don't know why I bother promising I'm not scum because obviously that does nothing lol, but I genuinely just want to win and am more than willing to do whatever is asked of me in order to achieve that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Looks like Atogaholic is replacing Jobie.
Welcome!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There have been worse slots to replace in to in the past.
Probably.
But not many.
:/
Jobie was sort of coasting and had some poor interactions with Kraj, who got dayvigged and flipped Godfather. Right now you've got a few votes on you but your wagon stalled because half the game is lurking and a couple people want Brinatoo instead.
That's the short version, anyway.
I'll get to catching up later this evening. Anything anyone wants to direct my attention to in the meantime ?
Those are the reads you pick to comment on?
Muh.
It's more that the first set of reads was basically picking the most consensus things to say without original thought.
It's not so much about /helping/ as it is about showing your thought process and where you are in the game, so that we can try to figure out your alignment.
Like. Finish up the exercise, if you could, and then draw conclusions based on your thoughts.
If you had a gun with 3 bullets in it, and you had to fire the gun and shoot 3 different people, who do you shoot?
If you don't hit at least 2 mafia, the game immediately ends, town loses.
Try to explain your thought process in why you picked those three names as thoroughly as you can.
Although if you have any thoughts on Brinatoo, Seppel, Ghosting, or Huntzilla while you're catching up, we could use them. Those are sort of the hot topics at present. I should be around for a few more hours if you want to talk about anything.
1. Night 1 Target D1 Lynch. 15 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 14.
2. Night 2 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 13 Players remain with a lynch and first expended item, Mafia NK brings to 12.
3. Night 3 Target another dead player from 4/5 current bodycount. 11 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 10.
4. Night 4 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 9 Players remain with a lynch and second expended item, Mafia NK brings to 8.
5. Night 5 Target another dead player from 7/9 current bodycount. 7 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 6.
6. Night 6 Target player to give item to and make them untargetable. 5 Players remain with a lynch, Mafia NK brings to 4. Win Condition Met.
Without any outside assistance and a normal scenario, he would need to survive till Day 7. Yea I don't believe that at all now. Coupled with 2 other neutral claims, a vigshot, needing passed items, the dead bodies require an item on them, if he found/was given an item with 0-charges he'd have to wait until the next night to pass it because of using the ammo clip, and with mafia against him in both NK threat and voting majority lategame, it would be unrealistic to meet that win condition the majority of the time. The only few things to stall it out is multiple ways of town protecting themselves from mafia NK and/or multiple no-lynches. I don't like modgaming but this is an absolute extreme. How I view it, he's lying because he would NEED to have the town help him reach this (like 80-90% of the time if I had to guess) which would force him to openly seek out more items and avoid the mafia threat at the same time. Too bastardly. So he's scum. If someone has undeniable proof that I'm wrong, they should speak up now.
Vote: Ghosting
I wanted to be the hammer in case there was a quick wagon with opportunistic votes on him (which there could have been because his wagon was 4 votes at its peak iirc.) I was watching Mindreaver's wagon with the same mindset/considering my scumreads. And if I have to explain myself even further about this I think you're not understanding my position and should figure it out. if you can't touch this.
I would have no way of knowing if you are being sarcastic with your name or not. I'm sure it's happened before where someone was literal with their name and was misinterpreted as experienced. Depends on the person's personality behind their name-deciding process. This conversation is meaningless and reaching at best. I don't understand what you mean by this so you'll have to rephrase it if you want a rebuttal. Explain the strange part. How is agreeing but coming to different conclusions strange? I never said I doubted/agreed with Blos's Ghosting read at that point in the game. I did question Proph's reasoning behind barning Blos's opinions. He has openly barned Blos on a much more frequent level than he has barned your reads. I don't even remember him barning any other read that you had except the one that was on me.
The obvious thing here is that he cares about his position on the wagon.
But theres also a setup to keep scumreading the two of them forever. Regardless of any flips.
Like, he's decided that these are his reads.
And you know what? No one can really fault him for them.
I think brinatoo found the safest people to attack short of businessman. And its all kind of... meaningless. Whatever you think of tappingstones and ghosting, you look at brinatoo's posts and go "Sure. Thats a thing a person could think."
But he isn't taking it any further than that. He's been rehashing the same things for the whole day. I've already explained my stance on TS, but with Kraj's flip I have mixed feelings on the early interaction between the two. I hate to believe a townie would treat me this way + everything else. To say I'm not taking Ghosting's case any further is completely false, and saying I'm just rehashing the case is also completely false. Him arguing the same points with me in circles isn't the same as me rehashing something. I've pointed out other points along the way and I think this post is my strongest case against him.
And I shouldn't have to activityprod someone to do their own cases, it was getting annoying seeing Proph talk about getting to looking at me earlier in the day and you doing the same is even more annoying.
I still don't see how a townie would openly taunt me to make a move and read Ghosting like that. I had Kraj as a light townread and didn't want a vigshot on him. Jobie had more content/reads than Mato/IMAB and I didn't think he was impairing. I'll have to iso Jobie myself to get an opinion on what others are claiming about him. Mato above IMAB because IMAB was, just at that point, developing reads and Mato was still not being helpful.
Absolutely nothing was said in this post. Literally every single read is "I think they're scummy, but then again they're not. Never mind!"
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'm going to keep my vote on Jobie/Atog for the moment, but I'm still down for a Ghosting lynch if that wagon picks up traction. I think he's the scummiest player who's actually saying things.
Having said that, if scum!Matowar solos town in LyLo I'll make a formal apology in the post-game.
I want Ghosting dead.
I hadn't actually fully thought through the numbers, but I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't fit. He's either lying about something and trying to frame it as being pro-town, or he's just straight up mafia.
Jobie-slot is probably more likely to be actual mafia by a little bit, but it'd be pretty poor form to immediately lynch someone after they replace in, I guess.
And Matowar... I don't even know.
I'm really struggling to parse his posts from any kind of town or scum mindset.
Yes, it's fence-sitty.
I don't especially care.
He's probably going to have to die at some point, but it doesn't have to happen today.
---
I'm still trying to wrap my head around that Brinatoo post, but I think I like it. I don't think that Ghosting push is scum/scum, at least. And I think it's more likely to come from town who genuinely believes he caught something rather than scum who would know Ghosting isn't scum.
Brinatoo scum.
Could you explain that one for me? I don't see it.
Also, do you think he's bussing Ghosting or is Ghosting legit?
Someone dance with me and ask me questions.
Or re-ask them if I've missed them.
I'm around for 30-45 minutes probably.
Maybe talk with me about some squishier reads, like Hunger, Hunt, Seppel. (Or Matowar, if you have a solid read on him either way).
Mindreaver
SilverCrys3467 (r. Hardwood_Paneling)
Prophylaxis
not_a_gimmick
Gentleman Johnny
TappingStones
Seppel
imabusinessman
Huntzilla (r. Dragon_Reign)
Matowar77
Brinatoo
Hunger
Ghosting
Atogaholic (r. Jobie)
Kraj
This is where I'm at right now, I think. People are clustered into tiers, and roughly in order within the tiers.
---
-I think Jobie is very likely scum with Kraj based on the interactions. His response to me asking him about Kraj and voting him strongly indicates weak bussing, as later on he votes Mindreaver over Kraj, while still calling Kraj scummy. I just don't really want to immediately lynch a replacement without at least giving them a chance. Seems poor form, given it's going to be a slog to read through.
-I think it's very likely Ghosting is just straight up Mafia. If he's neutral, he's anti-town, or at least not telling the complete truth. His role requires too much help from town to win in a reasonable time frame, and I don't think it exists in the form he's claiming. If we have useful items for town, I'd rather pass them around to actual town members rather than help a neutral who we can't fully trust, in the best-case-scenario.
-Hunger is mostly PoE scum, who had some slightly odd interactions with Kraj. I want him to post more, and play the game more.
-I don't think Brinatoo is scum with Ghosting. The mechanics/numbers post he had above is a very weird line to take to bus, when there's sufficient behavioral analysis to push the line. If Ghosting is a neutral that goes out the window a little bit, but I really think Brinatoo /believes/ that he's caught Ghosting with the math, and that's enough to make me at least consider he could be town.
-I don't fully know what to make of Matowar. My gut says town, because he just completely and utterly lacks any kind of appeasement or self-preservation. I'm not saying never lynch him. I'm just... saying I think he's a really easy target to push, and I think he's less likely to be scum than the names below him.
-Huntzilla is uh. Squishy. I don't like the Matowar push he's doing, I don't like how he barns the case on Jobie, and then peels off to list an entire different scum team that doesn't include Jobie. I do like that he put in the effort to read the meta game link at least somewhat earlier in the game, and I've liked some of his reasoning in posts. This is a read I need to strengthen further, because it's pretty much -shrug- territory.
-Seppel is Seppel. I don't like the claim. I don't like the claim that he was originally a survivor and then it got retconned. I don't like the push on Matowar. I don't like that he continually forgets his reads. But unfortunately literally all of that can come from town Seppel who is either just scatterbrained, or trying to be too clever for his own good. Gut says he's town, just because he's been more carefree/blase/indifferent than I'd expect from Scum!Seppel. There's not a lot of motivation in his posts, he's just kind of going with it.
-TappingStones is probably town by virtue of activity and Kraj interactions. I think his reads have been terrible all game, but that's not alignment indicative in the least. (He's been pushing for myself, Proph, Silver as scum for a large chunk of the game, and all three are almost certainly town)
-GJ is not mafia. He claimed under no pressure, and when reasonably town read. I believe the neutral claim from him, and believe his paranoia about getting shot early given the town reads he was accumulating, and his recent early game deaths.
-NAG is not mafia. That Kraj push on him was really weird. His reads have mirrored mine pretty strongly, and I've liked how he's thinking about the game consistently from early on. Neutral, town, I don't know, but I don't think he's mafia, so I don't want him dead.
-Proph is just town. His play this game is far outside of his reasonable scum range, and his back and forth with me a page or two ago confirms that too me. He's carefree, he's confident, he's playing a pretty good game. I don't think he reacts to Kraj's fairly genuine sounding pre-vig-flip post with the '****, he's going to flip town, isn't he?' if he knows Kraj's alignment. It was a pretty genuine reaction, and Proph is very, very solidly twn.
-SilverCrys has been a remarkable bastion of effort and analysis since he replaced in, and Hardwood was a light town read even prior to that. I do want to go back and look at who all was pushing on Hardwood and Silver, because I'd bet there's scum in there somewhere.
-Mindreaver shot Kraj. With all the neutral claims, I consider it super unlikely he's a SK or something.
-I'm town.
I address this in the post I just made, but I think he's....probably? Town.
Nothing he's done is outside his town range or his scum range, and I don't love some of the stuff he's done (including the Matowar push), but Scum Seppel usually just has more...motivation to his posts, rather than just posting whatever he feels like. It's hard to fully articulate, but I've been reasonably successful at reading him in the past.
Reasonably.
Don't take this as an absolute, heh.
Kind of apt.
But I think he's probably town. I hate pretty much literally everything about how he's playing this game (Why do you even sign up for games if you're going to intentionally not play them? How is that fun in any way, and how is it fair to the people you're playing with?), but his conviction regarding the flavor thing is pretty strong, and he is occasionally interjecting thoughts, even if he's not doing anything with them. I think the fact that he's not trying to do anything with his occasional interjections makes him more town, since... how does he win as scum in this world? He will eventually get lynched if he refuses to play, and he's not going to do anything to further his win condition during the day phase, as no one is going to remotely listen to him or take him seriously with his chosen playstyle. Like yes, yes, the intentional WiFOM, but I don't think he quite does it like this as scum.
Probably.
Say what you want, but we're going lurker hunting this game.
Alec is most definitely a Mafia role.
I see what you see and I strongly agree with you on this. Jobie and Matowar should die. Hunger too. And I don't exactly get the Brinatoo case, but I don't have him as town, so he can die too.
[b]Vote Jobie/Atog.[/b]
I don't have a strong scumread on Hunt because, despite playing to his scum meta, I actually like the things he's posting. Wait, that's exactly what happens when he's scum. Whatever. I just have a gut feeling that he's town, mostly because the above four deaths should win us the game. There's just not enough players to fit Hunt into the scumteam.
Not completely unreasonable, but the town would have to be considerably down in the hole for me to consider turning on the town. Shooting a mafia pre-night 1 means that situation might never happen.
So are you saying I am neutral, and NAG is scum? That seems super bastardly, dont-ya-think?
I have a lean town read on him. Most of his questions have felt good to me, and he was participating a decent amount in the early game.
To be fair: 1). I'm not town. and 2). My "clever charm" got me the nickname of Gentleman "3 trial" Johnny.
How so? If you took away my claim, and assumed I was simply busy, explaining my low post count, does your read change on me? Or is it only because I claimed non-town AND I am not posting a ton?
I think the part about sneaking in the "disdain of Janus" looks suspiciously like he is trying to nudge towards being a more "pro-town" neutral.
He has been gathering votes in past games, as town, for not posting a ton. Why do you not think it's possible that townHunt is trying to be a stronger poster? Like, if you keep getting voted to claim range/lynched for not posting a ton as town, what do you think changes?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Lovers have an incentive for a quick conclusion. If we assume there are 3 scum left (which would be what I would consider the max number remaining), it's better for them to coordinate with town. If we were sucking, and killing each other instead, they might push mislynches to end the game quickly.
For now, I don't think they are a Lynch target.
Ghosting is actually the opposite. Assuming he can pass every night, which is a stretch at this point, he's 4 nights from a win. It's in his best interest for the game to continue as long as possible. This is day one, and if we mislynch today, he can probably win with us. If we Lynch correctly though, he's going to run out of time.
He's not going to win the game by being killed. Buy he can't be fully trusted either, since his opinions could be trying to push mislynches(even if he doesn't know the scum team).
He's not a good target for today's lynch. He might even eat a night kill if a good enough item ends up in his possession.
But, I think he is more likely wrong. I can't see three neutrals in a 16 player normal.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Although you never really pushed me, just expressed suspicion and put me in the nulls you wanted to sift through once.
I'm not 100% town clearing either of them, but I think they're unlikely to flip scum, especially compared to Jobie/Atog and Ghosting.
In Mafia classic, One of the neutrals had to eliminate the mafia team and another neutral had to eliminate the werewolf team. I ran a game where the neutral had to name two people and if themselves or one of their two named players got to the end, then the neutral won.
You're assuming that the neutral's goal is to survive to the end however the neutrals could have other goals.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
In that vein, I want people to give reasons based on interactions for their scum reads. You can't use "lurking" as a scum read, it's too easy for scum to use this as something we can't interact with later. I want to hear reasons, based on quotes.
No more hiding behind "lynch a lurker arguments". It's not that we wont lynch one, it's that everyone needs to be on record after the Kraj flip giving in-depth reasoning why. Not just "Yeah, Jobie has been lurking, we got him boys!".
Don't really want to lynch Togs until he has a chance to catch up.
I would be ok with claiming so in so is alurker, get 'em, but then they have to explain why player y is exhibiting town tells. Kraj lurking was part of it, town reading everyone else also played a role in that catch, I would say.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Gentleman Johnny is scum because he wants his townread, me, to get vigged. Then claimed he wants to work with town. Do neutrals who want to work with town ask that their townreads get vigged? The answer is no.
If GJ is a lover with another neutral he's never gonna claim because claiming "I'm neutral and I'm gonna work with town" is gonna get you Nightkilled faster than a teenager in a Freddy Kreuger film.
This is a normal game. Have you ever heard of a normal game giving out fake-claims for the scum team? If there are fake-claims being given out to scum teams in a Normal game then this game has been mis-classified. Do you think Iso mis-classified this game? And yet there's N-A-G (and somebody else who's name I'm forgetting) spouting off nonsense about how there are fake claims in a Normal Game. Both NAG and Gentleman Johnny are scum.
This is some really obvious stuff.
I've never played with the "lover" mechanic before, if both are scum then what is the upside to the role? I would think if there isn't some massive power somewhere else that would imply 5 scum? For example if we lynched one of those two on day one could that be half the scum team? I don't think that's a likely outcome. I'm not honestly a fan of neutrals anyway. I like the idea of town vs. scum, but whatever.
What is the upside for lovers?
How likely is three neutrals based on the number of players in this game?
Who is on the similar page with me lynch target wise at the moment?
Is everyone reading the Ghosting claim incorrectly or am I?
His wincon is to EXPEND items, not pass items.
By using his 2nd ability, he is NOT furthering his wincon. He has no incentive to use his 2nd ability because it doesn't further his wincon and it makes him lose an item that he could otherwise EXPEND to actually further his wincon.
There is a decent chance his 2nd ability doesn't even exist and he added it in to make it look like he could be pro-town. However, if that's the case, I'm not sure why he would keep the expend phrasing in there and not change it to something like pass or whatever. I just don't get how that ability exists. It's very difficult to prove and even if it is proven, he sets his wincon back at least another Day to maybe possibly gain a little bit of trust from the town. I guess if he has an item that he has expended and doesn't have an ammo clip he may as well try to give it to someone and protect them to further the game and possibly gain some trust.
I think he is either lying or "expend" doesn't mean what I think it does. And if that's the case and he actually has to pass the items to win, I am thinking along the lines of what Brinatoo posted, which means he is still likely lying.
And if I'm right about "expend" then it's fishy as hell that he hasn't yet corrected anyone on it. Unless, he doesn't understand his own role? I can't imagine Iso wouldn't correct him if that's the case.
Also, if everything he says is somehow legit, he still needs to make sure the game doesn't end too fast that he doesn't have a chance to win, so there is still the possibility if we lynch another scum he will actively try to NOT lynch scum after that in fear of ending the game.
@Ghosting - Please clarify your role. Ask the mod if you have to. Also, if you are withholding anything, out with it now.
I think I'm probably just on board with lynching Ghosting either way. If he is neutral as he says, it gives us a better read on Brinatoo at the worst.
I still want to lynch Mato. I do get the argument that he is not endgaming as scum, but at the same time I just think he is scum and would rather lynch him now instead of giving him a chance to use any ability he may have and
give the scum team less options for the NK in case we have a watcher or some such. Also, see below for more.
I also want to lynch Jobie/Atog as well, but agree it's against the spirit of the replace to not let Atog catch up and give him a chance at least. If the slot is town it would be great to be able to get that read and not mislynch him.
I think the case against Brinatoo was good, but probably want to see if Ghosting is scum first since I don't think that analysis post comes from scum busing scum.
But I want to lynch Seppel the most. Among other things that I will get to, this role related stuff is really bothering me about Seppel 1. If he is so worried about the laptop falling into the wrong hands, why not just pass it to someone he trusts instead of hoping someone town steals it, especially if he is paranoid about a scum being able to steal? Like, why claim it if that's a legit fear?
2. Why even be that nervous about losing it? It makes him invincible town so mafia can never get rid of him and worse case scenario he is right about someone thieving, we all know it's been thieved, and anyone that is unlynchable just is the thief and we lynch them the next day?
3. He claimed Boris, who is one of the top Janus agents. I claimed Xenia, also a top Janus agent. I know I am town and converted, but at the risk of putting scrutiny on my own claim, it seems odd to me that multiple top Janus agents would all defect. Who is left flavor-wise to be scum?
4. I have been soft-claiming unkillable as well specifically to see what Seppel would do about it. I would think town Seppel would be trying to push a cc against me, but despite casually calling me scum all game he has never actually pushed me. And I mean, 2 ex-Janus unkillable townies? Why wouldn't he find that odd? I do.
5. He doesn't mention the "good guy" thing at all until Bloscovi and even then he never explicitly says that's in his role pm. In fact, he specifically says his role was retconned to say Town. So how does that make the good guy thing more likely to be town?
6. He claims that he was changed from neutral to town mid-game? Mod-gaming, but really?
7. Why would he believe all 3 neutral claims if he was himself a neutral at the start of the game? Like, does he actually think Iso made the game with 4 neutrals and then partway into it was like, "shoot, this isn't balanced, you are town now." If I was a neutral to start the game like Seppel says, I would be MORE skeptical of the neutral claims thinking Iso would start the game with 4 neutrals. Also, I just feel like Iso wouldn't let this happen.
8. Why the hell would people pass him stuff if he wants to get rid of his laptop?
@Bloscovi - So, you pointed out the same thing re:Seppel as I did above. On top of that though, you have the exact opposite meta read as I do. I find scum Seppel to be much more blase/forgetful than town Seppel. I was scum with Seppel in Vagrant Story and he got me lynched D2 because he didn't know I was on his team and even said in scum chat that Night something along the lines of, "oh *****, I didn't know Hunger was on our team." I posted earlier in the game that I thought Seppel was probably town due to him actually paying attention to the game and not organizing lists and stuff. That has been fading a bit with some of his reads and I'm starting to get more paranoid of him. Like this, This is what I expect out of a scum Seppel. He loves organizing things and make it look like he is all about the town and doing things democratically as scum. It's also presenting Matowar as THE vig option by not considering the other suggestions.
And after the Kraj vig, he hasn't brought Mato up despite others being OK with his lynch and Seppel pushing him hard as the vig option. He said multiple times that he is for sure scum.
I think he saw Mato as a sinking ship that he could get the town cred for trying so hard to vig him, but now he can't push another one of his buddies to go down D1.
There is also these tasty nuggets re:Kraj Despite not voting him or pushing him to be the vig. There are also more Kraj references if you iso him.
And when you questioned Mato on Seppel he simply says he hasn't played with him before so will reserve judgment. Seems like a pretty typical scum-buddy fence sit position. I think if one of Mato/Seppel is scum they likely both are.
Couple this with the weirdness around his role/my role and I think he is a pretty solid bet for the "deep scum."
I think the rest of the scum is likely in here: Mato/Seppel > Jobie/Brinatoo/Ghosting/Hunt - Though that second pile will probably change depending on if Mato/Seppel flip scum and the game is still going. And I still don't fully trust the lovers.
Also, this is great if I'm right
Vote: Seppel
Well, it's not impossible. Especially considering that two of them are Lovers, so they both die to a single lynch or night kill. Like, the game could be set up as a 15 man that way with 16 people or something.
Not me. I'm sort of ambivalent towards Brinatoo and I don't want Blos dead at all.
Even though he's scum? I don't get you, man.
You know who else voted Ghosting for no discernible nor coherent reason? Kraj.
Jobie literally slipped and outed Kraj and Matowar as his buddies. Let's get this show on the road.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I don't think you are that naive to think Iso would confirm your role with a question like that.
The question itself is manipulative in the sense that you want us to believe that you believe your question. But I don't believe that this is an honest question.
UNVOTE whoever; VOTE:GHOSTING
Or, I don't want people saying "You're lying, you made up that Iso answered you". This saves me that trouble. It's more of a mechanic question than a role question, so I don't see why he won't answer it.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I want to catch people with behavior. I've only pressed toward you when you've displayed behavior that sets my alarms off. For example there are people pushing hard for Jobie but I haven't found a spot where his behavior warranted it.
We will see what we will see.
Now to be fair to you. If you are indeed as pro town as you claim to be then how about setting us up to finish off the scum and getting an "honorary" win postgame.
Give us an honest, final T/S list Where do we go after this lynch?
Town:
Mindreaver
Bloscovi
Prophylaxis
Huntzilla
Silvercrys
Neutral:
not_a_gimmick
Gentleman Johnny
Leaning Scum:
TappingStones
Hunger
Seppel
Scum:
Brinatoo
Matowar
Jobie
Proph could be the deep scum, but I've been townreading him for a while and am just saying that because I don't think people should just dismiss him as entirely town. However, congrats to him if he is, because he's been playing a good game.
If I'm lynched, all that happens is I flip neutral and you guys will probably lynch Brinatoo tomorrow. Mato should be lynched asap as I'm like 99% sure he's scum and he has done absolutely nothing to defend his case; his replies have only made it worse. Jobie hasn't been playing well at all and had the Kraj/Mato slip that furthers my belief him and Mato are scum.
I genuinely promise I'm not scum, I am a very useful role to the town and would love to help you guys out. Promises mean nothing, but I would hope we don't lynch someone who is kind of a doctor and dies as soon as I stop cooperating. I don't know why I bother promising I'm not scum because obviously that does nothing lol, but I genuinely just want to win and am more than willing to do whatever is asked of me in order to achieve that.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1