I just noticed that there's less than 800 posts in this game. And if you take out Ghosting's posts and my posts there's only 100.
Unless you have half the player base on ignore, this is factually incorrect.
Quote from Ghosting »
Have you read the recent responses by myself and Mindreaver? There's multiple instances of him lying, backtracking, misrepping, insults, using terrible logic, referring to things as evidence that aren't true or aren't evidence, etc. I feel that this is probably the most confident I've felt about a case in my history of playing. I know you've been busy though so maybe you haven't seen that.
I'll take a look, because you both seem convinced the other is lying/misrepping/whatever.
Unless you have half the player base on ignore, this is factually incorrect.
I'll take a look, because you both seem convinced the other is lying/misrepping/whatever.
I'm 99% sure Mindreaver calling me a liar is him actually being the liar because there's so many posts I had to correct and quote to prove, whereas he was just posting a lot of fluff while saying "you're a liar". There's more to my case as well, check out my points. I really became more and more confident as he kept replying, so maybe you'll see what I mean.
Well, Ghosting, let me ask you this, even though its been pointed to death.
Why were you so sure five posts in you had a correct read on me, even after you were completely off track in Ace Attorney? In my experience, most people who misread a player (town or scum) tend to be more cautious with that same player in the future. Even ignoring that, I am a rather hard person to read, so I am curious why you were so sure after Biv put a stronger town read on me...
Well, Ghosting, let me ask you this, even though its been pointed to death.
Why were you so sure five posts in you had a correct read on me, even after you were completely off track in Ace Attorney? In my experience, most people who misread a player (town or scum) tend to be more cautious with that same player in the future. Even ignoring that, I am a rather hard person to read, so I am curious why you were so sure after Biv put a stronger town read on me...
No worries, I like being asked questions lol.
Your post #36 is a rational explanation for your scum hunting, and you didn't respond with any kind of OMGUS or anything. I also felt that your unvote in post #33 was good at the time, and that it included another instance of scum hunting. Finally, I thought you sounded like you did in AA, where I horribly read you as scum and didn't want that to happen again.
Also, while everyone is crafting my read on GJ as some absolute, I not only felt that I had a relatively sufficient amount of material to support my early read, but I was also agreeing with the statement "GJ is probably town" -- probably indicating it wasn't an absolute.
If we guess or assume that NaG thought he was town (because his role PM didn't explicitly say he was neutral) we could probably further assume that he thought his "lover" might be scum.
If he thought his lover was scum, he would want to out himself to his lover to ensure he doesn't draw the NK without claiming Lover because we might try to lynch him to get his lover.
This makes sense, but I'd rather have heard it from NAG. However,
Also, you guys are asking my thought process, that's what I gave you. I'm not posting "new information" because that wasn't what your problem was with my original post. It wasn't "Where are your scumreads" it was "we don't understand why you'd think that way". So that's what I posted.
My accusation was neither, it's that your reasons are bad or non-existent. You ignore all points I made against you then call me scum for no reason, calling Ghosting scum specifically because other people are, you name three people "strong" scum in post 708 without any reason but then summarily dismis all of them as lynches because NONE of them provide any information (wah?), you say IAMB is the scummiest player in the game for lurking and being "flagrantly unhelpful" and have been voting him almost the whole game but then consistently saying Ghosting or I is the better lynch without voting either of us.
So in a nutshell you're not really pushing anyone, just supporting wagons other people start, while your actions don't match your thought process.
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Have to agree with GJ here, that post comes across as really opportunistic. No reasons, just a vote and one sentence that doesn't really explain the vote much. I don't disagree with the vote on Mindreaver, just how it was presented.
Have to agree with GJ here, that post comes across as really opportunistic. No reasons, just a vote and one sentence that doesn't really explain the vote much. I don't disagree with the vote on Mindreaver, just how it was presented.
Agree with GJ on what? He didn't say the vote was opportunistic.
Over the last few pages Mindreaver's posts have raised the hair on the back of my neck.
I want him dead.
VOTE:MINDREAVER
Specifically, what?
I really didn't like when he doubled down on the "I never said..." argument with Ghosting. He clearly DID say that he wanted Ghosting as the lynch and then denied he ever said that. After that Ghosting quotes him and all we hear is crickets...
Then each time I read over the interactions if felt like caught scum.
@GJ-What do you think of that interaction with Ghosting?
Agree with GJ on what? He didn't say the vote was opportunistic.
He just asked "specifically, what?"
Yeah my response wasn't very clear: I was agreeing with GJ that I want you to tell us more about why you want GJ lynched. It should've said "Have to agree with GJ here, I'd like you to elaborate as well, otherwise it just comes across as really opportunistic".
if the Ghosting wagon had any strength behind it, it would have persevered through my one-liner.
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
Big thumbs up to that first sentence. I like you.
Why matowar though? Does my "noob trying to improve" hard clear not do it for you?
Actually this does nothing to explain. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see why it's important for your partner to know who you are immediately. What's the risk? Why wouldn't it be way, way, way, better to wait until you were under pressure to claim? I would have totally called B.S. on not knowing your own alignment if other people hadn't apparently had the same problem. Which, in a Normal game, is completely absurd. But whatever. It is what it is.
I find it hilarious that everyone is quick to lament my 'horrible' vote on NAG and call me scum for it while agreeing with my logic and not bothering to say where or why it goes wrong, or even whether I'm wrong at all. I was well-aware the vote would be controversial; I'm not surprised no one agreed with me because the strength of the evidence isn't there, but I still think I'm right.
There is certainly something you're missing. But let us leave that be.
The part where I'm James Bond and thats awesome was genuine. That was an actual part of my reasoning. But I did want to put it out there to see how Natalya would respond. We're lovers, not siblings. So I definitely wanted to figure that out.
Also, lovers are slightly worse than townies (pre item, of course), and it seemed odd to me that James Bond would be so vulnerable. Vulnerability is not exactly his thing. It does make a bit more sense as neutral though, and I feel pretty good about TCM being truthful.
If he thought his lover was scum, he would want to out himself to his lover to ensure he doesn't draw the NK without claiming Lover because we might try to lynch him to get his lover.
I assumed town but wanted to confirm. I've never been a lover before (well, in a mafia game), so I really just wanted to put it out there and see what happened.
Seriously though. Both of you have put well more thought into why I claimed than I put in to deciding to claim.
Have you read the recent responses by myself and Mindreaver?
Nope.
Ghosting and mindreaver are both >rand scum and I just don't care enough. One of them is probably the lynch today. I'll consider reading this whole thing when one of them flips. (hey look at me, embracing my neutrality)
So yeah, I'll vote for either.
Just to reiterate: businessman, ghosting, mindreaver, brinatoo, hunger.
If there are not two or more scum in that five I will disavow all knowledge of this account.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Big thumbs up to that first sentence. I like you.
Why matowar though? Does my "noob trying to improve" hard clear not do it for you?There is certainly something you're missing. But let us leave that be.
The part where I'm James Bond and thats awesome was genuine. That was an actual part of my reasoning. But I did want to put it out there to see how Natalya would respond. We're lovers, not siblings. So I definitely wanted to figure that out.
Also, lovers are slightly worse than townies (pre item, of course), and it seemed odd to me that James Bond would be so vulnerable. Vulnerability is not exactly his thing. It does make a bit more sense as neutral though, and I feel pretty good about TCM being truthful.I assumed town but wanted to confirm. I've never been a lover before (well, in a mafia game), so I really just wanted to put it out there and see what happened.
Seriously though. Both of you have put well more thought into why I claimed than I put in to deciding to claim.This is demonstrably false. You'd have to take out tappingstones and both bloscovi's as well to get it below 100.
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Yeah, no. I'm not doing that.
Nope.
Ghosting and mindreaver are both >rand scum and I just don't care enough. One of them is probably the lynch today. I'll consider reading this whole thing when one of them flips. (hey look at me, embracing my neutrality)
So yeah, I'll vote for either.
Just to reiterate: businessman, ghosting, mindreaver, brinatoo, hunger.
If there are not two or more scum in that five I will disavow all knowledge of this account.
You didn't read the mass of posts, but you are going to determine our alignments? For all you know you could read that and Mindreaver could be the most town player (or me). It might make you think only one of us is scum, etc. I know you're neutral, but not reading it is lazy play. Applying reads without reading it is worse play. It doesn't even make sense. :/
Also, you said I put "well more thought" into your claim, when I made only one post even referencing it and it was about how useless speculation is...so why lie?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You didn't read the mass of posts, but you are going to determine our alignments? For all you know you could read that and Mindreaver could be the most town player (or me). It might make you think only one of us is scum, etc. I know you're neutral, but not reading it is lazy play. Applying reads without reading it is worse play. It doesn't even make sense. :/
I'm not using it at all. You were both on my list days ago. Hell, hunger is still on there and I've basically forgotten him.
I'm just pretending the argument didn't happen until I have to. I can't get much information from fights like that except the relationship between the two people involved. And that doesn't tell me anything until I have some degree of confidence of one person's alignment.
A good example is kraj and brinatoo trying to figure out tappingstones early in the game. When I was unsure of tapping, that looked townie to me. Of course villagers want to see what makes this guy tick.
But now that I've accepted that he is town, those interactions take on a new tint. When I look at brinatoo, specifically, he is not playing the game of mafia in those posts. He is being brinatoo, the person, just trying to figure out a new person. He doesn't necessarily care about tappingstones' alignment, just making communication possible.
So what was once a towntell became a very mild scumtell.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
You didn't read the mass of posts, but you are going to determine our alignments? For all you know you could read that and Mindreaver could be the most town player (or me). It might make you think only one of us is scum, etc. I know you're neutral, but not reading it is lazy play. Applying reads without reading it is worse play. It doesn't even make sense. :/
I'm not using it at all. You were both on my list days ago. Hell, hunger is still on there and I've basically forgotten him.
I'm just pretending the argument didn't happen until I have to. I can't get much information from fights like that except the relationship between the two people involved. And that doesn't tell me anything until I have some degree of confidence of one person's alignment.
A good example is kraj and brinatoo trying to figure out tappingstones early in the game. When I was unsure of tapping, that looked townie to me. Of course villagers want to see what makes this guy tick.
But now that I've accepted that he is town, those interactions take on a new tint. When I look at brinatoo, specifically, he is not playing the game of mafia in those posts. He is being brinatoo, the person, just trying to figure out a new person. He doesn't necessarily care about tappingstones' alignment, just making communication possible.
So what was once a towntell became a very mild scumtell.
Brinatoo is tunneling. And I haven't read much of it to clearly, but it's not productive.
Last reminder that if you want your Vote to count to first Unvote!
I'm V/LA-ish for another 2-3 days yet, but I'll just say that Ghosting wagon looks pretty good through lens of my reads. Silver and Proph are two of my strongest town reads, and NAG was my strongest town read before the neutral thing (which means I'm pretty sure he's not actually scum aligned, at the least).
If Ghosting is town, I see zero reason why scum wouldn't join that push, given the amount of town/not-scum already supporting it.
Admittedly, not remotely caught up, so could be missing things. But saw the vote count and it reaffirms my belief in Ghosting scum. Not that it has ever wavered, but. Still.
So my point is this: why are you using reads from my first 3 or 4 posts, which are just barely out of RVS? All town reads from since I've returned have included a wealth of references to quotes, paragraphs of description, etc. It's misleading and very a abnormal choice to craft your reason on reads from just after RVS.
Again, are you going to ignore that I've talked this way to everyone? I'm barely 21 and talk like it, and I talk like it to everyone. To single out my discussions with TS and claim that they're sooo telling, whilst ignoring that I've spoken this way to literally every player, is absolutely misleading and invalid. If you read my posts you can find probably 100 instances of casual speech, varying from lols, to mans, to casually worded phrases. It's how I talk, especially at night when I have free time.
Nice try reducing my townread on TS to simply meta, but I've listed other reasons as well, including that his thought process on various points has matched mine, as well as how he defended me in the Blosc v. Ghosting spam. Additionally, I've provided further reasoning in my T/S list, iirc.
Seppel is null to you, but he's no reading the thread. Would you say that not reading the thread is inherently town, or scum? Fencesitting at this point is interesting, because you are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be. Out of interest, have you read my posts regarding Seppel's alignment? If not, I encourage you to, and to read Seppel's reaction to me thinking he's scum.
Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?
Any read on Mindreaver?
Right after RVS can be just as telling as later in the day. Coming up with baseless reads after being prodded to do so is, how I view, a weak attempt to appease the town.
And like I just said....I found it strange not "soooo telling" as you just tried to exaggerate. And you haven't used pronouns to anyone else like that(except another one to Blos for v/la stuff I found) except on those. I was being specific and looking for language tells but I'm not too familiar with it to form a tell on anything like that. But this reaction is duly noted.
Your read on TS was meta at first was formed off of meta. Sure you added explanations later down the road, but I'm talking about then. I think the more you try and steer me toward the present and ignore the past is telling too.
I've seen both town and scum be lazy and not read the thread, it isn't alignment telling. "You are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be" what is this philosophy class?
"Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?" Like I've said, and refuse to repeat to you again. I find your baseless reads, which include the case Blos has brought against you, as scummy. I never said casual language was a scumread on you but this reaction seems telling. I also never said reading TS as town was a scumread but the interactions between the two of you vote in favor of him coming to your scumdefense in a flexible manner based on the situation. Also the Mindreaver blatant misrep about his Seppel read instead of mine to further your case was more to mine.
@Ghosting: Brinatoo said "Seppel is null to me," not Mindreaver.
And on that note, unvote, vote Brinatoo because in a game of 18 players, you're going to attack me for forgetting a read or two? Get out.
313, 391(me and TS as compared to 187), 736. Thanks for a vote on factpushing.
I'm not using it at all. You were both on my list days ago. Hell, hunger is still on there and I've basically forgotten him.
I'm just pretending the argument didn't happen until I have to. I can't get much information from fights like that except the relationship between the two people involved. And that doesn't tell me anything until I have some degree of confidence of one person's alignment.
A good example is kraj and brinatoo trying to figure out tappingstones early in the game. When I was unsure of tapping, that looked townie to me. Of course villagers want to see what makes this guy tick.
But now that I've accepted that he is town, those interactions take on a new tint. When I look at brinatoo, specifically, he is not playing the game of mafia in those posts. He is being brinatoo, the person, just trying to figure out a new person. He doesn't necessarily care about tappingstones' alignment, just making communication possible.
So what was once a towntell became a very mild scumtell.
I asked if gimmicks were still common and you said you weren't new. I haven't tried to figure out a new person once this game, unless you mean new to me but new to the game of mafia? no. And I did try to figure out his alignment early on/communicate but that ship has sailed, he's scum. I'm only met with sideline antics now.
Right after RVS can be just as telling as later in the day. Coming up with baseless reads after being prodded to do so is, how I view, a weak attempt to appease the town.
Except that my reads following my prod weren't baseless; in fact, they've been accompanied by in depth analysis, post references, etc.
And like I just said....I found it strange not "soooo telling" as you just tried to exaggerate. And you haven't used pronouns to anyone else like that(except another one to Blos for v/la stuff I found) except on those. I was being specific and looking for language tells but I'm not too familiar with it to form a tell on anything like that. But this reaction is duly noted.
Right, but while you just said it was strange, you included four inferences in your post about it. I also wouldn't consider my reaction as overreactive or emotional; I was simply saying how what you said isn't true nor telling.
Your read on TS was meta at first was formed off of meta. Sure you added explanations later down the road, but I'm talking about then. I think the more you try and steer me toward the present and ignore the past is telling too.
Or, the more you try to focus on the distant past and not focus on when I returned and everything following that (which isn't just recent, it's 90% of my play, and when I was really playing and not just my few post-RVS votes). I have pages upon pages with interactions with various players now.
I've seen both town and scum be lazy and not read the thread, it isn't alignment telling.[quote]
Then why did you mention he wasn't reading the thread? What purpose was there to say that?
[quote]"You are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be" what is this philosophy class?
What? It's a simple statement: there was the possibility of a Seppel wagon forming at that point based on the views of a couple players.
"Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?" Like I've said, and refuse to repeat to you again. I find your baseless reads, which include the case Blos has brought against you, as scummy.
Except my reads aren't baseless, and that is your only reason. Barning Blos is not your own reason, it's barning. I want you to analyze my current behaviour, past, present, etc., and come up with genuine reasons.
I never said casual language was a scumread on you but this reaction seems telling.
You didn't say it, but you referenced it 4 times. Why reference it that much if it's not telling?
Also, even of my reads before, I've already shown with reference to posts that my earliest read on GJ wasn't baseless, which I'm curious how you respond to.
Also, what about players who listed no or very minimal reasons? Mindreaver's T/S list had no or next to no reasons, Seppel calls people town and scum frequently with no reasons, early on Blosc just said GJ is probably town, etc. Those are all legitimately baseless reads, and some are more recent. If that's the foundation of your case against me, shouldn't it also reflect poorly on those players doing the same?
Also the Mindreaver blatant misrep about his Seppel read instead of mine to further your case was more to mine.
You mean where I immediately apologised and it wasn't at all a misrep? Pointing this out either shows that you aren't reading the thread or are purposely including it to paint me as scummy when it is an entirely invalid reason and immediately accounted for. If I was trying to misrep, it wouldn't make sense to say "Oops, wrong player, super sorry".
if the Ghosting wagon had any strength behind it, it would have persevered through my one-liner.
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
Big thumbs up to that first sentence. I like you.
Why matowar though? Does my "noob trying to improve" hard clear not do it for you?
/Head desk
I'm not a huge fan of noob clearing. However, I meant Mindreaver, I read the wrong row of my spreadsheet.
unvote, Vote: Mindreaver
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Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Well, that's enough. Ready for a claim that's gonna blow your minds?
WOO WOO
One-shot town dayvig hoes. I'm Russian General mad cause I was betrayed by Janus, but now I just want revenge. I have a briefcase I can't open (apparently it was a useless item in goldeneye the game, but I'm hoping that one of you actually has a key or a code or something), which I was hoping my HPW posting in the beginning would prompt somebody for the codez (when I literally said "maybe somebody has a three digit code or something", because I'm hoping the thing contains awesome things. I've already tried hitting TS over the head with it. The only result was that it made Iso talk in emogies for a time.
So there, my motivations are: I am too new to know how or why to really shoot. Didn't expect to get a cool role. I've read up on it, and the best play was to simply give us a second lynch at some point. But I played too much the "what do my townreads think about people" thing, thinking I might just fire and not fess up, and now I've got a pretty sweet wagon to look at instead. Probably some scum on there, especially these last few votes (Jobie, specifically. Since he was scumreading me for joining a wagon casually, and hey look, it's the second time he's joined mine. That seemed a VERY casual 4th vote brah).
So, I've typed out IMs to Iso for Kraj, Ghosting, and IABM. Will to hear arguments for others, but obviously, I'm leaning in those directions.
Pretty easy claim to verify. Those who are about to die, we salute you!
@Ghosting - In the beginning, I was listing you with the people I thought would be best to kill. Hence all the "for information" talk. Proph, Blos, TS, all had you on their radars, so you were a natural include to the discussion I wanted to have. The way you've come after me though, is not town. You want a reason why you're on the list? You've twisted my words over and over, and now I've just thrown down the gauntlet. Unless you think a scum player would be a day-vig, and they'd claim it, you can be sure I was town the whole time, while you went after all my "scumreads". Sure, not having a great reason, in your opinion, for me wanting you listed as scum. I'd like to hear your re-read, and what you have to say now, that I'm certainly going to be towncleared either through mod-gaming or when I die tonight.
@TS - I have never once committed to anyone specifically in that scumlist. Not even in that post Ghosting quoted. I was very careful not to do so, because I didn't want to influence anyone in a particular direction. Consider my "these 5 are scummy" post to read "These are the people I've considered unilaterally murdering today, thoughts?" It wouldn't have done me much good to push specific agendas (as Ghosting claims I did, on him). Even with IABM, who was mentioned by name as a vig target (by Proph), I just voted him and listed him as most scummy, but was trying to not give anyone room to say "Yeah, I agree with you, kill XXX for sure" without them having to give me reasons.
@Everyone else - Sorry if this claim is at a bad time, I am actually still learning here, and this might be too early. But I don't have an ammo clip (and they can't be passed), so if I eat a nightkill, that's probably a double win for us.
@Everyone else - Sorry if this claim is at a bad time, I am actually still learning here, and this might be too early. But I don't have an ammo clip (and they can't be passed), so if I eat a nightkill, that's probably a double win for us.
I think you picked one of the best possible times to claim, actually. You can invigorate new life into this game by daykilling scum!Ghosting, and your claim while you were being run up made all the scum on your wagon wet themselves.
(Because the your counterwagon to the strong townies on Ghosting's wagon is filled with my Not Town reads)
I believe your claim and will unvote because there's no way scum claims that, lol. I would love if you didn't kill me though, because I swear on my life that I am not scum. Obviously that is pointless to say, but it would really genuinely be a waste of a shot.
Going to go ahead and reread with the perspective that your town, as that should generate your insight. The really quick interest in your wagon caught my eye when TS, Jobie, and Kraj hopped on after not having posted in a while, so I'm going to start with them.
Is your judgement why you're unvoting, or the dayvig claim? Lol.
Also, why do you think I'm town? You've defended or deflected from my lynch and I'm curious why. You may have already said why but I can't remember off the top of my head.
Oh yeah. When it comes to Sally Acorn she was actually alright. Considering how the comic flubs so many characterizations I'm surprised that that went well for her. But I absolutely hated her character in the Sonic SatAM version. She stole screentime from Rotor Walrus. Plus in the second season she the ABC executives forced her to put some clothes on so that she didn't appear so stripperific. Apparantly one of the executives pre-teen sons was being led down the dark path of furry fandom.
For the comics my favorite character is easily Thrash The Tasmanian Devil. He was allowed to beat up and punk Knuckles when usually the main characters are given plot armor.
For the games it's something of a tie between Fang The Sniper and Vector The Crocodile. Fang weilds a gun which is pretty intense for the kid friendly series and is a bounty hunter. Vector is a really good guy who cares about his teammates in a real way. He also seems to have dimensions to his character even if it's shallow. That's says more than most of the characters in the games and the comics.
Sucks about the lame dinner at the airport. Remember to arrive about 4 hours before your flight takes off due to TSA budget cuts.
I breadcrumbed "town" here since there's a portion of the Role PM that specifically mentions phrasing very similar to this. Not that it matters since while I was gone people have gone and pretty much done the same. But I did it before it was cool. I also breadcrumbed my role, if any in the post as well, but it's up to you guys to find it in there.. Not even bothering to get caught up tonight. Maybe in a day or two. No shoot please.
Well, that's enough. Ready for a claim that's gonna blow your minds?
WOO WOO
One-shot town dayvig hoes. I'm Russian General mad cause I was betrayed by Janus, but now I just want revenge. I have a briefcase I can't open (apparently it was a useless item in goldeneye the game, but I'm hoping that one of you actually has a key or a code or something), which I was hoping my HPW posting in the beginning would prompt somebody for the codez (when I literally said "maybe somebody has a three digit code or something", because I'm hoping the thing contains awesome things. I've already tried hitting TS over the head with it. The only result was that it made Iso talk in emogies for a time.
So there, my motivations are: I am too new to know how or why to really shoot. Didn't expect to get a cool role. I've read up on it, and the best play was to simply give us a second lynch at some point. But I played too much the "what do my townreads think about people" thing, thinking I might just fire and not fess up, and now I've got a pretty sweet wagon to look at instead. Probably some scum on there, especially these last few votes (Jobie, specifically. Since he was scumreading me for joining a wagon casually, and hey look, it's the second time he's joined mine. That seemed a VERY casual 4th vote brah).
So, I've typed out IMs to Iso for Kraj, Ghosting, and IABM. Will to hear arguments for others, but obviously, I'm leaning in those directions.
Pretty easy claim to verify. Those who are about to die, we salute you!
@Ghosting - In the beginning, I was listing you with the people I thought would be best to kill. Hence all the "for information" talk. Proph, Blos, TS, all had you on their radars, so you were a natural include to the discussion I wanted to have. The way you've come after me though, is not town. You want a reason why you're on the list? You've twisted my words over and over, and now I've just thrown down the gauntlet. Unless you think a scum player would be a day-vig, and they'd claim it, you can be sure I was town the whole time, while you went after all my "scumreads". Sure, not having a great reason, in your opinion, for me wanting you listed as scum. I'd like to hear your re-read, and what you have to say now, that I'm certainly going to be towncleared either through mod-gaming or when I die tonight.
@TS - I have never once committed to anyone specifically in that scumlist. Not even in that post Ghosting quoted. I was very careful not to do so, because I didn't want to influence anyone in a particular direction. Consider my "these 5 are scummy" post to read "These are the people I've considered unilaterally murdering today, thoughts?" It wouldn't have done me much good to push specific agendas (as Ghosting claims I did, on him). Even with IABM, who was mentioned by name as a vig target (by Proph), I just voted him and listed him as most scummy, but was trying to not give anyone room to say "Yeah, I agree with you, kill XXX for sure" without them having to give me reasons.
@Everyone else - Sorry if this claim is at a bad time, I am actually still learning here, and this might be too early. But I don't have an ammo clip (and they can't be passed), so if I eat a nightkill, that's probably a double win for us.
That is interesting and unexpected. UNVOTE
It looks like we have common ground on the Kraj read at the very least. I'm gonna reread as if you are town and see if I find any good interactions.
Mindreaver is 900% town for the "we get more information" thing, which definitely makes sense from the mindset of "I'm town with a daykill!"
Ghosting's #721 is reasonable, but I still disagree with some of it. For example, I read the "Goddarn it, it's Bloscovi again!" as something pretty genuine, since - why would that be a thought that would enter scum!Seppel's mind? It can be faked, I guess, but I don't see it.
Though even though I said all that, my townread on Seppel is somewhat dying. The Mindreaver hop on the wagon looks pretty bad for him, and there was the Brinatoo vote I remember reading and went all "ew" at. I still think Seppel is decently town, but those two things damper the read in my eyes.
Quote from Seppel »
And on that note, unvote, vote Brinatoo because in a game of 18 players, you're going to attack me for forgetting a read or two? Get out.
Like man, why do you keep forgetting your townie read on Brinatoo?
Quote from not a gimmick »
I might save a brinatoo push for another day, as I'm reasonably happy with a ghosting lynch and don't really have the desire to lead a counterwagon.
Can you explain your read on Brinatoo, please? I did a PBPA of him earlier and came out of it with the impression that he was strongly town. Why do you think Brinatoo is scum?
@Bloscovi: Answer this if you have time. Why did you make me do the Brinatoo PBPA? Was this another "sealing off a mislynch if you are scum" thing from last game?
@Brinatoo: If you're down for a Ghosting lynch, why is your vote not on him? Why do you spend most of that wall talking about TappingStones and then at the end move towards Ghosting?
Quote from Ghosting »
I wish I could say the same.
Keep your chin up. When's the end of the quarter/semester for you?
Don't you think this Day has gone on enough? Today's been nearly three weeks long. I want some alignment confirmation rather than sitting back and forth discussing the people outside of the Box (imabusinessman/Kraj/Jobie/Hunger/Ghosting)
@Ghosting: Can you please claim and provide a list of scumreads if you happen to flip town? I know you're re-evaluating your Mindreaver read, but if you are town I promise I will do my best to champion your reads, as you've in my mind played a fantastic game as both alignments. (Seriously, if you are indeed scum as Bloscovi says, you are terrifying)
Thanks for pointing this out, I was like what how is Mindreaver possibly saying that lol. I was feeling pretty excited.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Unless you have half the player base on ignore, this is factually incorrect.
I'll take a look, because you both seem convinced the other is lying/misrepping/whatever.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm 99% sure Mindreaver calling me a liar is him actually being the liar because there's so many posts I had to correct and quote to prove, whereas he was just posting a lot of fluff while saying "you're a liar". There's more to my case as well, check out my points. I really became more and more confident as he kept replying, so maybe you'll see what I mean.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Why were you so sure five posts in you had a correct read on me, even after you were completely off track in Ace Attorney? In my experience, most people who misread a player (town or scum) tend to be more cautious with that same player in the future. Even ignoring that, I am a rather hard person to read, so I am curious why you were so sure after Biv put a stronger town read on me...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
No worries, I like being asked questions lol.
Your post #36 is a rational explanation for your scum hunting, and you didn't respond with any kind of OMGUS or anything. I also felt that your unvote in post #33 was good at the time, and that it included another instance of scum hunting. Finally, I thought you sounded like you did in AA, where I horribly read you as scum and didn't want that to happen again.
Also, while everyone is crafting my read on GJ as some absolute, I not only felt that I had a relatively sufficient amount of material to support my early read, but I was also agreeing with the statement "GJ is probably town" -- probably indicating it wasn't an absolute.
Lmk if you need me to clarify any further.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
This makes sense, but I'd rather have heard it from NAG. However,
YOU'RE AN AWFUL VOTE!
My accusation was neither, it's that your reasons are bad or non-existent. You ignore all points I made against you then call me scum for no reason, calling Ghosting scum specifically because other people are, you name three people "strong" scum in post 708 without any reason but then summarily dismis all of them as lynches because NONE of them provide any information (wah?), you say IAMB is the scummiest player in the game for lurking and being "flagrantly unhelpful" and have been voting him almost the whole game but then consistently saying Ghosting or I is the better lynch without voting either of us.
So in a nutshell you're not really pushing anyone, just supporting wagons other people start, while your actions don't match your thought process.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Member Posts
TappingStones 129
Ghosting 97
Bloscovi 96
Prophylaxis 80
Seppel 68
Silvercrys3467 59
Mindreaver 47
Hardwood_Paneling 32
not_a_gimmick 28
Gentleman Johnny 28
I just meant more as in I felt like I hadn't seen you recently; you've definitely posted a bunch this game.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
TappingStones 129 Town
Ghosting 97 Probably town
Bloscovi 96 Town
Prophylaxis 80 Probably town
Seppel 68 Town
Silvercrys3467 59 Town (also nice postcount for replacing in bro)
Mindreaver 47 Probably Town
Hardwood_Paneling 32 Who?
not_a_gimmick 28 Neutral
Gentleman Johnny 28 Neutral
This game is going to be won because the town is the loudest.
I want him dead.
VOTE:MINDREAVER
Specifically, what?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Have to agree with GJ here, that post comes across as really opportunistic. No reasons, just a vote and one sentence that doesn't really explain the vote much. I don't disagree with the vote on Mindreaver, just how it was presented.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Agree with GJ on what? He didn't say the vote was opportunistic.
He just asked "specifically, what?"
I really didn't like when he doubled down on the "I never said..." argument with Ghosting. He clearly DID say that he wanted Ghosting as the lynch and then denied he ever said that. After that Ghosting quotes him and all we hear is crickets...
Then each time I read over the interactions if felt like caught scum.
@GJ-What do you think of that interaction with Ghosting?
Yeah my response wasn't very clear: I was agreeing with GJ that I want you to tell us more about why you want GJ lynched. It should've said "Have to agree with GJ here, I'd like you to elaborate as well, otherwise it just comes across as really opportunistic".
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Why matowar though? Does my "noob trying to improve" hard clear not do it for you? There is certainly something you're missing. But let us leave that be.
The part where I'm James Bond and thats awesome was genuine. That was an actual part of my reasoning. But I did want to put it out there to see how Natalya would respond. We're lovers, not siblings. So I definitely wanted to figure that out.
Also, lovers are slightly worse than townies (pre item, of course), and it seemed odd to me that James Bond would be so vulnerable. Vulnerability is not exactly his thing. It does make a bit more sense as neutral though, and I feel pretty good about TCM being truthful. I assumed town but wanted to confirm. I've never been a lover before (well, in a mafia game), so I really just wanted to put it out there and see what happened.
Seriously though. Both of you have put well more thought into why I claimed than I put in to deciding to claim. This is demonstrably false. You'd have to take out tappingstones and both bloscovi's as well to get it below 100.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, no. I'm not doing that.
Nope.
Ghosting and mindreaver are both >rand scum and I just don't care enough. One of them is probably the lynch today. I'll consider reading this whole thing when one of them flips. (hey look at me, embracing my neutrality)
So yeah, I'll vote for either.
Just to reiterate: businessman, ghosting, mindreaver, brinatoo, hunger.
If there are not two or more scum in that five I will disavow all knowledge of this account.
You didn't read the mass of posts, but you are going to determine our alignments? For all you know you could read that and Mindreaver could be the most town player (or me). It might make you think only one of us is scum, etc. I know you're neutral, but not reading it is lazy play. Applying reads without reading it is worse play. It doesn't even make sense. :/
Also, you said I put "well more thought" into your claim, when I made only one post even referencing it and it was about how useless speculation is...so why lie?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Silvercrys3467 (1): imabusinessman
Ghosting (4): Prophylaxis, Bloscovi, not_a_gimmick, Silvercrys3467
imabusinessman (2): Mindreaver, Matowar77
Bloscovi (1): TappingStones
Kraj (1): Jobie
Hunger (1): Huntzilla
Mindreaver (2): Kraj, Ghosting
Brinatoo (1): Seppel
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
-
Last reminder that if you want your Vote to count to first Unvote!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
UNVOTE; VOTE:MINDREAVER
Where's businessman?
I'm just pretending the argument didn't happen until I have to. I can't get much information from fights like that except the relationship between the two people involved. And that doesn't tell me anything until I have some degree of confidence of one person's alignment.
A good example is kraj and brinatoo trying to figure out tappingstones early in the game. When I was unsure of tapping, that looked townie to me. Of course villagers want to see what makes this guy tick.
But now that I've accepted that he is town, those interactions take on a new tint. When I look at brinatoo, specifically, he is not playing the game of mafia in those posts. He is being brinatoo, the person, just trying to figure out a new person. He doesn't necessarily care about tappingstones' alignment, just making communication possible.
So what was once a towntell became a very mild scumtell.
Brinatoo is tunneling. And I haven't read much of it to clearly, but it's not productive.
(Going to post tonight, all classes done so yay)
I wish I could say the same.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'm V/LA-ish for another 2-3 days yet, but I'll just say that Ghosting wagon looks pretty good through lens of my reads. Silver and Proph are two of my strongest town reads, and NAG was my strongest town read before the neutral thing (which means I'm pretty sure he's not actually scum aligned, at the least).
If Ghosting is town, I see zero reason why scum wouldn't join that push, given the amount of town/not-scum already supporting it.
Admittedly, not remotely caught up, so could be missing things. But saw the vote count and it reaffirms my belief in Ghosting scum. Not that it has ever wavered, but. Still.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
And like I just said....I found it strange not "soooo telling" as you just tried to exaggerate. And you haven't used pronouns to anyone else like that(except another one to Blos for v/la stuff I found) except on those. I was being specific and looking for language tells but I'm not too familiar with it to form a tell on anything like that. But this reaction is duly noted.
Your read on TS was meta at first was formed off of meta. Sure you added explanations later down the road, but I'm talking about then. I think the more you try and steer me toward the present and ignore the past is telling too.
I've seen both town and scum be lazy and not read the thread, it isn't alignment telling. "You are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be" what is this philosophy class?
"Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?" Like I've said, and refuse to repeat to you again. I find your baseless reads, which include the case Blos has brought against you, as scummy. I never said casual language was a scumread on you but this reaction seems telling. I also never said reading TS as town was a scumread but the interactions between the two of you vote in favor of him coming to your scumdefense in a flexible manner based on the situation. Also the Mindreaver blatant misrep about his Seppel read instead of mine to further your case was more to mine.
313, 391(me and TS as compared to 187), 736. Thanks for a vote on factpushing. I asked if gimmicks were still common and you said you weren't new. I haven't tried to figure out a new person once this game, unless you mean new to me but new to the game of mafia? no. And I did try to figure out his alignment early on/communicate but that ship has sailed, he's scum. I'm only met with sideline antics now.
Except that my reads following my prod weren't baseless; in fact, they've been accompanied by in depth analysis, post references, etc.
Right, but while you just said it was strange, you included four inferences in your post about it. I also wouldn't consider my reaction as overreactive or emotional; I was simply saying how what you said isn't true nor telling.
Or, the more you try to focus on the distant past and not focus on when I returned and everything following that (which isn't just recent, it's 90% of my play, and when I was really playing and not just my few post-RVS votes). I have pages upon pages with interactions with various players now.
What? It's a simple statement: there was the possibility of a Seppel wagon forming at that point based on the views of a couple players.
Except my reads aren't baseless, and that is your only reason. Barning Blos is not your own reason, it's barning. I want you to analyze my current behaviour, past, present, etc., and come up with genuine reasons.
You didn't say it, but you referenced it 4 times. Why reference it that much if it's not telling?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You mean where I immediately apologised and it wasn't at all a misrep? Pointing this out either shows that you aren't reading the thread or are purposely including it to paint me as scummy when it is an entirely invalid reason and immediately accounted for. If I was trying to misrep, it wouldn't make sense to say "Oops, wrong player, super sorry".
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
/Head desk
I'm not a huge fan of noob clearing. However, I meant Mindreaver, I read the wrong row of my spreadsheet.
unvote, Vote: Mindreaver
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
WOO WOO
One-shot town dayvig hoes. I'm Russian General mad cause I was betrayed by Janus, but now I just want revenge. I have a briefcase I can't open (apparently it was a useless item in goldeneye the game, but I'm hoping that one of you actually has a key or a code or something), which I was hoping my HPW posting in the beginning would prompt somebody for the codez (when I literally said "maybe somebody has a three digit code or something", because I'm hoping the thing contains awesome things. I've already tried hitting TS over the head with it. The only result was that it made Iso talk in emogies for a time.
So there, my motivations are: I am too new to know how or why to really shoot. Didn't expect to get a cool role. I've read up on it, and the best play was to simply give us a second lynch at some point. But I played too much the "what do my townreads think about people" thing, thinking I might just fire and not fess up, and now I've got a pretty sweet wagon to look at instead. Probably some scum on there, especially these last few votes (Jobie, specifically. Since he was scumreading me for joining a wagon casually, and hey look, it's the second time he's joined mine. That seemed a VERY casual 4th vote brah).
So, I've typed out IMs to Iso for Kraj, Ghosting, and IABM. Will to hear arguments for others, but obviously, I'm leaning in those directions.
Pretty easy claim to verify. Those who are about to die, we salute you!
@Ghosting - In the beginning, I was listing you with the people I thought would be best to kill. Hence all the "for information" talk. Proph, Blos, TS, all had you on their radars, so you were a natural include to the discussion I wanted to have. The way you've come after me though, is not town. You want a reason why you're on the list? You've twisted my words over and over, and now I've just thrown down the gauntlet. Unless you think a scum player would be a day-vig, and they'd claim it, you can be sure I was town the whole time, while you went after all my "scumreads". Sure, not having a great reason, in your opinion, for me wanting you listed as scum. I'd like to hear your re-read, and what you have to say now, that I'm certainly going to be towncleared either through mod-gaming or when I die tonight.
@TS - I have never once committed to anyone specifically in that scumlist. Not even in that post Ghosting quoted. I was very careful not to do so, because I didn't want to influence anyone in a particular direction. Consider my "these 5 are scummy" post to read "These are the people I've considered unilaterally murdering today, thoughts?" It wouldn't have done me much good to push specific agendas (as Ghosting claims I did, on him). Even with IABM, who was mentioned by name as a vig target (by Proph), I just voted him and listed him as most scummy, but was trying to not give anyone room to say "Yeah, I agree with you, kill XXX for sure" without them having to give me reasons.
@Everyone else - Sorry if this claim is at a bad time, I am actually still learning here, and this might be too early. But I don't have an ammo clip (and they can't be passed), so if I eat a nightkill, that's probably a double win for us.
I'd vote that you vig Ghosting or imabusinessman.
IMAB is acceptable, just because he probably needs to die at some point, but we learn functionally nothing from his death.
(Because the your counterwagon to the strong townies on Ghosting's wagon is filled with my Not Town reads)
I guess I can catch up right now but meh.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
We still have time.
But you should absolutely fire on Day One.
True, but couldn't the scum also be among the lurkers, replacers, suspend-ed-ers(?), etc.?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I don't trust my judgment. IMAB and Jobie?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Is your judgement why you're unvoting, or the dayvig claim? Lol.
Also, why do you think I'm town? You've defended or deflected from my lynch and I'm curious why. You may have already said why but I can't remember off the top of my head.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I breadcrumbed "town" here since there's a portion of the Role PM that specifically mentions phrasing very similar to this. Not that it matters since while I was gone people have gone and pretty much done the same. But I did it before it was cool. I also breadcrumbed my role, if any in the post as well, but it's up to you guys to find it in there.. Not even bothering to get caught up tonight. Maybe in a day or two. No shoot please.
That is interesting and unexpected. UNVOTE
It looks like we have common ground on the Kraj read at the very least. I'm gonna reread as if you are town and see if I find any good interactions.
Mindreaver is 900% town for the "we get more information" thing, which definitely makes sense from the mindset of "I'm town with a daykill!"
Ghosting's #721 is reasonable, but I still disagree with some of it. For example, I read the "Goddarn it, it's Bloscovi again!" as something pretty genuine, since - why would that be a thought that would enter scum!Seppel's mind? It can be faked, I guess, but I don't see it.
Though even though I said all that, my townread on Seppel is somewhat dying. The Mindreaver hop on the wagon looks pretty bad for him, and there was the Brinatoo vote I remember reading and went all "ew" at. I still think Seppel is decently town, but those two things damper the read in my eyes.
Like man, why do you keep forgetting your townie read on Brinatoo?
Can you explain your read on Brinatoo, please? I did a PBPA of him earlier and came out of it with the impression that he was strongly town. Why do you think Brinatoo is scum?
@Bloscovi: Answer this if you have time. Why did you make me do the Brinatoo PBPA? Was this another "sealing off a mislynch if you are scum" thing from last game?
@Brinatoo: If you're down for a Ghosting lynch, why is your vote not on him? Why do you spend most of that wall talking about TappingStones and then at the end move towards Ghosting?
Keep your chin up. When's the end of the quarter/semester for you?
@Ghosting: Can you please claim and provide a list of scumreads if you happen to flip town? I know you're re-evaluating your Mindreaver read, but if you are town I promise I will do my best to champion your reads, as you've in my mind played a fantastic game as both alignments. (Seriously, if you are indeed scum as Bloscovi says, you are terrifying)