He's wrong, but town. Unless he's very, very good at faking conviction as scum.
@TappingStones
Let's try a thought exercise.
Pretend Proph and myself are both mod-confirmed town, publicly.
What does that mean for the gamestate, and the Ghosting wagon, in particular?
Literally no other person has expressed any interest in the wagon, or Ghosting, despite two town being the only people pushing it.
Granted, a large chunk of the game isn't exactly playing, admittedly.
Like. In this world (Proph/myself town), who is scum? What are they doing? If you could kill three people in that world, who would you kill to have the highest chance at killing multiple scum?
Also, I can't speak for Proph, but the over-explanatory thing isn't the reason I want Ghosting dead.
It's the fact that he talked to me like I was town, that he knew was town, calling TCM town, because he knows TCM is town.
TCM did not have enough content up to that point to warrant a read that is that in-depth.
You are functionally saying you expect people's playstyle and posting style to change just because their alignment changes. This is not true, generally. You need to look at the mindset behind the posts, rather than look for superficial similarities.
7. Brinatoo - Unsure. I don't remember anything he's said.
Quote from Seppel »
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
He's wrong, but town. Unless he's very, very good at faking conviction as scum.
@TappingStones
Let's try a thought exercise.
Pretend Proph and myself are both mod-confirmed town, publicly.
What does that mean for the gamestate, and the Ghosting wagon, in particular?
Literally no other person has expressed any interest in the wagon, or Ghosting, despite two town being the only people pushing it.
Granted, a large chunk of the game isn't exactly playing, admittedly.
Like. In this world (Proph/myself town), who is scum? What are they doing? If you could kill three people in that world, who would you kill to have the highest chance at killing multiple scum?
Why are you so sure that Proph is town? Can you put into words with good examples? Like, I don't think you can just say "He feels like town to me" and expect I should reasonably agree with you. As you said a big chunk of the playerbase is just not here/not contributing so I can't with any degree of confidence say I'm right about anything (sucks to say, but it's the most reasonable conclusion to make). I do have to trust myself though. And as such I also am aware of my own limitations and I am very well known for lettting people show me that they are town and moving on to killing the actual scum. My final votes of the day are very, very rarely on town players. I would wager I'm in the Top 2-3 players on the whole site for that stat, granted a lot of that is due to small sample size but some of it is due to working hard in thread and being fluid enough to jump on and off when I feel something strange or when a player shows me his reads are valid.
Right now Proph isn't doing much. He's handing out townreads and he was scum reading Ghosting and then said he wanted to unvote because Ghosting responded well. He has no reason to continue voting Ghosting but he can't lure himself away.
I'd let Proph try to explain why he's still voting Ghosting, but I acknowledge it's hard for him to do so, because it relies on information that isn't public.
He knows who I am. He's read probably 20 or so of my games, and played with me a good chunk. He places a very high level of respect on my accuracy. He also knows that I hate playing scum with a passion, and tend to bus aggressively on d1 and d2, because I struggle to call people that I know are town, scum, with any conviction. Being wrong has historically been a town tell for me on D1. I don't expect people to take that into account this game obviously. I signed up on a gimmick because I didn't want to put much effort into this game, or even want to play in the first place. I just figured I'd help Iso make the game fire (as I was the last signup), and do the bare minimum (which would still be more than 2/3 of the game).
I wanted to use it as a chance to try out a new playstyle where I was clipped, abrupt, and held my cards very close to my chest, to generate reactions. But that lost appeal and strength when I had life kick me in the balls via work and holiday, as I kind of lost the pulse on the game I needed to have for it to be effective.
But I'm rambling off tangent.
Proph is historically poor scum, who suffers from one critical issue as scum - he can't stay engaged with the game. He posts very infrequently, and has large posts with a lot of very carefully crafted content to help try and make up for it. But it always reads like he's forcing himself to post.
I don't get that feeling here. He's not necessarily a shining bastion of towniness, but it's a stark departure from his scum play, and much more in line with his early game town play. You can get meta confirmation in that regard from Seppel's #391.
Like, yes, yes, it's at least theoretically possible that Proph came into this game with the intent to try and put me into his pocket and get me to town read him via /barning me, and being as active as he can. But I don't think that's the case.
You're welcome to try and keep pressuring him, I just don't think it's going to remotely be a useful use of your time. He's not going to get lynched, because he's very probably town.
(Also, I really doubt scum Proph has the testicular fortitude to goad you and others into voting him the way he has)
I'm back and working on doing a quick read to try to get current and interacting.
Heads up, I leave for a camping trip on Thursday - Sunday with no internet. I asked Iso if he wanted to replace me since I haven't even played yet and he opted to keep me in as opposed to looking for another replacement.
I'd let Proph try to explain why he's still voting Ghosting, but I acknowledge it's hard for him to do so, because it relies on information that isn't public.
He knows who I am. He's read probably 20 or so of my games, and played with me a good chunk. He places a very high level of respect on my accuracy. He also knows that I hate playing scum with a passion, and tend to bus aggressively on d1 and d2, because I struggle to call people that I know are town, scum, with any conviction. Being wrong has historically been a town tell for me on D1. I don't expect people to take that into account this game obviously. I signed up on a gimmick because I didn't want to put much effort into this game, or even want to play in the first place. I just figured I'd help Iso make the game fire (as I was the last signup), and do the bare minimum (which would still be more than 2/3 of the game).
I wanted to use it as a chance to try out a new playstyle where I was clipped, abrupt, and held my cards very close to my chest, to generate reactions. But that lost appeal and strength when I had life kick me in the balls via work and holiday, as I kind of lost the pulse on the game I needed to have for it to be effective.
But I'm rambling off tangent.
Proph is historically poor scum, who suffers from one critical issue as scum - he can't stay engaged with the game. He posts very infrequently, and has large posts with a lot of very carefully crafted content to help try and make up for it. But it always reads like he's forcing himself to post.
I don't get that feeling here. He's not necessarily a shining bastion of towniness, but it's a stark departure from his scum play, and much more in line with his early game town play. You can get meta confirmation in that regard from Seppel's #391.
Like, yes, yes, it's at least theoretically possible that Proph came into this game with the intent to try and put me into his pocket and get me to town read him via /barning me, and being as active as he can. But I don't think that's the case.
You're welcome to try and keep pressuring him, I just don't think it's going to remotely be a useful use of your time. He's not going to get lynched, because he's very probably town.
(Also, I really doubt scum Proph has the testicular fortitude to goad you and others into voting him the way he has)
Finally a post where you give some insight! More of these might be useful.
I agree with basically all of Bloscovi's post. The differences between my scum game and my town game are many, and I'm pretty comfortable saying that my scum game is trash compared to my town one. I have the Invitational, yes, but that was more of a fluke than anything else.
Quote from Hunger »
@Proph - How are you feeling about this game?
Tell me what you get from me answering this question/how me answering this question helps you solve the game, and I will be happy to answer.
No Read
Kraj
Matowar77
Brinatoo
Mindreaver
Bloscovi
Huntzilla
Lurking/Haven't Posted Much
Hunger
Ghosting
Jobie
Neutrals
Gentleman Johnny
TappingStones - reads the way he has in the other games I've read, plus he's really gunning for Proph. I don't agree, but he has conviction.
Proph - play is supported by Bloscovi in addition to my earlier thoughts.
Seppel - reaction to my posts indicates town.
not_a_gimmick - frustration with IABM in #347 reads genuine to me.
@Proph - About the "should have ended with a vote" thing. Do you mean Ghosting's #34? I'm willing to chalk that up to "it's still RVS and he isn't taking posts seriously yet."
@Bloscovi: You want to run Ghosting up because he agreed with you that GJ/TCM was probably town with not enough evidence to support his explanation?
@TappingStones: I like your reasoning and conviction, but have you read Twinborn where Proph got D1 lynched as town? Besides the false-claim he did in that game he seems the same to me.
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
I haven't joined the Harp wago yet, but I was about to until he requested replacement. What are you looking for here? Just a general impression on the wagon?
Yes I think you three could have a different impression on the events.
Imab can be pretty derisive, and his style is brash, but he can be effectual when necessary. If he's derping it could be for various reasons, so asking if he's actually doing something is seeing if we need to keep a watchful eye on him right away, or let him do his thing.
How would you describe the state of your eye? Watchful?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes. Watchful because I still have no idea where his play is heading, and I don't see letting him do his thing as being good for any of us right now. If I get a whif of what scheme he's concocted I will let you know... but right now, IGMEOY(him)
Huntzilla: You pointed out two things that might be indicative of a scum mindset from Mindreaver. Why aren't you voting him then?
I haven't got around to it yet. With the holiday and such I was simply waiting until my next catch up to place my vote where it needed to be (this post)... I was giving some time for more responses from him to dissuade me from his current position on my scum list... He didn't do so.
Hello SilverCrys3467, I apologize in advance if you got a mafia role I'm this game.
Ha ha. Well, I could say I'm not Mafia. But would you believe me if I did? Hardwood doesn't seem to have left a very good impression on you guys (not that I blame you, he seemed sort of smug to me).
I was going to do some wagon analysis but the most recent vote count is from two days ago.
@Iso could we get that vote count now? Pretty please?
Buddying up to the whole game by allowing our scumreading of your predecessor aside, what kind of analysis were you hoping to get from wagons that have no flips?
@Bloscovi - What do you think about PoE as a scumhunting tool? Also, did you read any of Mistborn?
TS is town. I do not see a bit of difference in his style. I don't agree with his reads but I don't usually.
What is YOUR read on TS?
How does a question like "How are you feeling" shed light on one's alignment?
Do you feel like you are helping scum hunt, or just trying to look busy?
@Bloscovi - What do you think about PoE as a scumhunting tool? Also, did you read any of Mistborn?
I did not read Mistborn. I tend to only read games I either play in, or a good friend played in and asked me to read through to give critique.
Generally if I have enough time to read a game, I'd play in it instead.
PoE is one of the strongest tools town has at its disposal, if utilized properly. Prior to LYLO/MYLO, I don't really care all that much if we lynch town, as long as it is A) not a town read of mine, and B) the lynch helps me figure the gamestate out.
Looking back at the stances people take on flipped players is great, to evaluate how genuine their thought process is. I do acknowledge that every player can't use the same PoE playstyle I do, though, or the necessary interactions to analyse won't exist.
@Bloscovi: You want to run Ghosting up because he agreed with you that GJ/TCM was probably town with not enough evidence to support his explanation?
Pretty much!
It's a case of having too much information. He knows I'm town, and he knew TCM was town (or at least not his buddy), so when he sees me call TCM probably town, he feels the need to agree with me, because I'm right.
I'm sure he over-explains things as both alignments, but the mindset the over-explaining has to come from doesn't feel like town to me. It feels like he /knew/ TCM was town, and he talked to me like I was town.
There was also no attempt to figure out my alignment for having the no-explanation read, given he said a few posts later that he hates reads/votes without reasoning.
My answer to the Brinatoo question disappeared out of my response, but the answer was basically "I agree with it" ... I was not a fan
Silvercrys has not really helped the slot's case.
@Proph - About the "should have ended with a vote" thing. Do you mean Ghosting's #34? I'm willing to chalk that up to "it's still RVS and he isn't taking posts seriously yet."
That can be true, but at the same time GJ kind of ended RVS on post 20, so.
I dunno. It's just a gut feeling when I read that post. Unsure how strongly it means in terms of Ghosting's alignment. At this point, I just want him to post more so we can get a better read on him.
@Bloscovi:
1. What is your read on Mindreaver?
2. What do you think about this post by Ghosting? I'm trying to reconcile how I feel about his first couple of posts and this one, since I thought the questions he asked in this post were pretty good.
@Proph - About the "should have ended with a vote" thing. Do you mean Ghosting's #34? I'm willing to chalk that up to "it's still RVS and he isn't taking posts seriously yet."
That can be true, but at the same time GJ kind of ended RVS on post 20, so.
I dunno. It's just a gut feeling when I read that post. Unsure how strongly it means in terms of Ghosting's alignment. At this point, I just want him to post more so we can get a better read on him.
@Bloscovi:
1. What is your read on Mindreaver?
2. What do you think about this post by Ghosting? I'm trying to reconcile how I feel about his first couple of posts and this one, since I thought the questions he asked in this post were pretty good.
Mindreaver is a light town read for reasons I don't remotely remember. I'm not taking notes this game.
I think it's a perfectly reasonable post, but not especially an alignment indicative one.
Question for you:
I'm town. Scum would know I'm town. If Ghosting is town, why would scum completely ignore the wagon, given I've effectively been trying to drive it, and take responsibility for it? Does this make more sense in ghosting town worlds or ghosting scum?
The utter lack of traction it's getting feels weird to me, although a large part of that is because 75% of the game isn't really playing, admittedly.
Finally a post where you give some insight! More of these might be useful.
What reaction are you trying to get here?
Ghosting reread had shockingly little of note besides going v/la twice for the same thing. I hope someone told his other game. 215 is odd. He's officially going on a v/la he's already been on, but takes the time to defend himself. To paraphrase: "that thing you say I'm doing, you do it too. Huntzilla said so."
I am not sure what drove ghosting to make that post. It could come from a similar place as matowar trying not to be scummy (being sick and tired of being run up just for doing his thing) or it could come from scum worrying about pressure.
What I don't like about this post is the appeal to another player. It just isn't necessary.
It's sort of the same thing bloscovi sees in the earlier interaction with himself and TCM. Why appeal to huntzilla if you don't know his alignment?
Doing seppel next for that farce of a T/S list. (9 unsures grumble grumble):
seppel's main contribution to the game is drive-by meta clearing. Well, not clearing. But saying things aren't alignment indicative.
Seems like everyone's beef with IABM is just standard IABM behavior. I see the people who have played with him before aren't voting him.
This shows a very townie mindset, of not wanting people run up for just doing their regular *****.
He also tries to run up huntzilla for being more active than usual. While I think that's silly, it does match with the above though process.
I'm ready to put seppel in the "very probably town but can mostly just be ignored" pile unless the people he's clearing all start flipping scum.
More time after these tacos are in my belly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Bloscovi: Phone post here, but I'm thinking in Ghosting town worlds, the scum think the wagon is a trap, and don't want to go along with it. There's been a lot of posts saying stuff like "Ghostingn always acts that way" and if he is indeed town then scum may have warned each other not to get on the wagon.
Though it's difficult, just as you say, because most of the game isn't even playing, and I have a bunch of town reads. It's a bit worrying for me to clear like 9-10 names Day 1 in a game of 26 players, I feel.
Bloscovi: Phone post here, but I'm thinking in Ghosting town worlds, the scum think the wagon is a trap, and don't want to go along with it. There's been a lot of posts saying stuff like "Ghostingn always acts that way" and if he is indeed town then scum may have warned each other not to get on the wagon.
Though it's difficult, just as you say, because most of the game isn't even playing, and I have a bunch of town reads. It's a bit worrying for me to clear like 9-10 names Day 1 in a game of 26 players, I feel.
I mean, yes, that's the case in ghosting town worlds, but that's not quite what I asked. I asked which world made more sense given how people are treating the wagon?
Yeah. I'm having a really hard time reading Mindreaver, Brinatoo, Matowar, and Kraj specifically. The lurkers and V/LA players make it harder. I'm starting to lean town on you and Huntz. I iso'd him and he seemed genuinely upset that HWP chainsawed his questions.
I like your reasoning on Ghosting and Proph but I'd like to see more from Ghosting. He's supposed to be back tonight, isn't he? I'll give him some time to catch up, he doesn't have a lot of content to look at yet (besides the one post you didn't like and the questions post Proph pointed out).
If I give you a gun, and you have to pick 3 players to hit 2-3 scum, or the game ends with a loss, which three players do you kill?
If I had to pull the trigger right now, I'd kill Hunger, Ghosting, and one of [Kraj, Matowar, Brinatoo, Mindreaver, Jobie] at random since I think they have equal chances of flipping scum. Hunger + Ghosting probably gives me one, hopefully the random kill gives me another. Puts my odds of not losing at 20% if Hunger or Ghosting is scum, which isn't great odds but it's better than Vegas.
If I give you a gun, and you have to pick 3 players to hit 2-3 scum, or the game ends with a loss, which three players do you kill?
If I had to pull the trigger right now, I'd kill Hunger, Ghosting, and one of [Kraj, Matowar, Brinatoo, Mindreaver, Jobie] at random since I think they have equal chances of flipping scum. Hunger + Ghosting probably gives me one, hopefully the random kill gives me another. Puts my odds of not losing at 20% if Hunger or Ghosting is scum, which isn't great odds but it's better than Vegas.
Why Hunger, over someone else that hasn't posted much, like Jobie? You haven't mentioned him prior to this post, so what separates him in your mind?
Nothing, really, except the near total lack of posting (not his fault). Kraj and Jobie have posted without really hitting me on their alignment one way or the other, so I figured Hunger and Ghosting have a better chance of flipping at least one scum over Ghosting and Kraj or Jobie.
Mindreaver has responded very well to the points against him. For now, his reactions seem genuine (especially to my "selective quoting" and jobie's "4th vote") and like he knew each one was just a misunderstanding/coincidence/whatever.
Now, this doesn't townclear him. All it proves is that, if he's scum, no one has caught him yet.
Still haven't seen anything particularly villagery, but you can't have it all.
Time to be a total ********. vote silvercrys
Hi new guy. Why aren't you mafia?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
To whoever asked, I don't know the player but the in game name I am lovers with is James Bond, so I am inclined to think NAG is my lover.
Hello my beautiful Natalya.
I was initially not sure if you were talking about me.
Weird story, I just assumed I was town because there wasn't a link to a QT or list of my scumteam.
But it doesn't actually say it anywhere. Iso was a bit skimpy on the win condition. Do we just have to live?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
I'm not sure how much I/we can talk about Role PM's without crossing a line.
There's something I really want to ask, because I wasn't even completely positive I was town at first (except no scum team/link), but it probably crosses unwritten rules, even if Iso doesn't have them in the first post.
We are both simply neutral it appears. The only lover varient I have seen aside from true neutral was one town, one scum, and they could still win with each other's team.
We are both simply neutral it appears. The only lover varient I have seen aside from true neutral was one town, one scum, and they could still win with each other's team.
You were the mod for Famous Historical Figures, were you not?
Instead of telling you why I think Brinatoo is pretty likely town, I'm going to link this, and ask you to tell me what you think his alignment is, based on it.
I have a reason for doing so, kind of.
I'll explain my read, and what I was trying to do, afterwards!
I don't like how in the space of 2 hours Silver changed his read of Blos/Hunt from null to lean town. Especially towards Blos it feels like buddying up to avoid pressure after a loaded-gun question. Also just now liking Blos's wagon after asking only one question regarding it is too suspicious. Unvote
Vote Silvercrys
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
I don't like how in the space of 2 hours Silver changed his read of Blos/Hunt from null to lean town. Especially towards Blos it feels like buddying up to avoid pressure after a loaded-gun question. Also just now liking Blos's wagon after asking only one question regarding it is too suspicious. Unvote
Vote Silvercrys
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
Hum.
Probably Silver, though I can't really take my reads on the players in question completely out of the picture.
Because if he's town here, there is absolutely scum being opportunistic.
I'm mostly looking at it as a current snapshot, but future works too.
It's an 'easy' lynch. It could still be on scum! But I had a light town read on Hardwood, and am just vaguely uncomfortable with the push on Silver. There's been stuff he's done I don't like, but there's also stuff like straight up putting no scum reads in a town/scum list that I have trouble seeing scum in his position doing.
I think Ghosting is the most likely scum of the three names you listed, and Mindreaver the most likely town (by a significant margin).
Silver is somewhere in between, and I'm not completely sure where I think he is on the sliding scale yet. Just that he's the best answer to your question, because if he's town, the wagon is likely a magnet for scum, now and in the future.
Maybe less so now if the scum team is super heavily lurkers, I guess?
(My comment about possibly 430 was very knee jerk and instinctual. I had a solid town read on you for reasons I'll get into after Proph answers my post, but my instinctual reaction was 'Wow, that's...potentially really opportunistic')
I'm rambling a little bit, but the question isn't the most relevant thing either? You can't fully take alignment considerations out of the question this early in a phase, and I'm content with my vote on Ghosting for now, since I think he's scum.
Instead of telling you why I think Brinatoo is pretty likely town, I'm going to link this, and ask you to tell me what you think his alignment is, based on it.
I have a reason for doing so, kind of.
I'll explain my read, and what I was trying to do, afterwards!
Heh, pulling the Nathan trick again.
I'll do this sometime tomorrow, though it is a good exercise (in that it forces me to stop procrastinating and actually look at Brinatoo's posts, though without context).
I'll also answer your other question tomorrow - the one I couldn't answer on mobile.
I'll /barn Bloscovi once again and say that I have no idea why Silver is getting run up, since his posts since replacing in are competent and well reasoned out. My gut is fighting me on this once again, since I'm thinking "I'm townclearing too many people, there /has/ to be scum that I've cleared" and it'll be a pain in the neck to figure out which one. I don't see anything egregiously scummy from reading Silver's posts, though.
I'm mostly looking at it as a current snapshot, but future works too.
It's an 'easy' lynch. It could still be on scum! But I had a light town read on Hardwood, and am just vaguely uncomfortable with the push on Silver. There's been stuff he's done I don't like, but there's also stuff like straight up putting no scum reads in a town/scum list that I have trouble seeing scum in his position doing.
I think Ghosting is the most likely scum of the three names you listed, and Mindreaver the most likely town (by a significant margin).
Silver is somewhere in between, and I'm not completely sure where I think he is on the sliding scale yet. Just that he's the best answer to your question, because if he's town, the wagon is likely a magnet for scum, now and in the future.
Maybe less so now if the scum team is super heavily lurkers, I guess?
(My comment about possibly 430 was very knee jerk and instinctual. I had a solid town read on you for reasons I'll get into after Proph answers my post, but my instinctual reaction was 'Wow, that's...potentially really opportunistic')
I'm rambling a little bit, but the question isn't the most relevant thing either? You can't fully take alignment considerations out of the question this early in a phase, and I'm content with my vote on Ghosting for now, since I think he's scum.
Okay. I was on the fence about Hardwood and wanted to get a feel for the replacement. On the surface I don't like the first impressions but I'm awaiting further comments to figure out my thoughts on him. I also don't know replacement meta and if no scum reads is a tell so others should pipe in on their opinion on that. I was hoping someone else I didn't have a feel for would've done as you did to my #430.
The question was a different take on your "if you had to shoot so and so now, who?"
It would be a lot more helpful if Blos and Proph weren't playing as if they were a single person. This isn't a hydra game. Proph is barning everything Blos is saying and providing close to no scum reads. The only thing they want to push is Ghosting even though Proph said he wanted to unvote him because he liked how Ghosting answered the questions. Blos is reading as very crafted especially over the last few pages. Really hate his "it's an 'easy' lynch. It could still be on scum! But I had a light town read on Hardwood, and am just vaguely uncomfortable with the push on Silver. There's been stuff he's done I don't like, but there's also stuff like straight up putting no scum reads in a town/scum list that I have trouble seeing scum in his position doing."
This kind of fence sitting is so unhelpful. And Proph barning everything without reasons is less then useless.
@Hunger-Please get around to that catch up you mentioned, before you are gone for four days.
Also if you haven't posted in 3-4 days and you are not V-LA why aren't you interacting? We have about 6-7 players participating right now and that's not going to help us catch the scum who are likely among those not posting.
7. Brinatoo - Unsure. I don't remember anything he's said.
Quote from Seppel »
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
I got the exact opposite impression. In what world does townHunt post with such clarity? Did he just get a lot more analytical in the span of one RL week? No, it doesn't read as a real townHunt post.
Also I might as well come out in full that I _need_ a watcher on me. Or someone to protect items from being stolen. Or a townie that can steal items. Or someone who can prevent my item from being stolen. Because of my item (laptop computer), I guarantee that there's at least one of those roles in the game, likely one town and one scum with those roles.
Basically my laptop can't fall into mafia hands because it makes its holder unlynchable and unkillable. I'm Boris Grishenko and true to my character's catchphrase "I'M INVINCIBLE!" I am in fact invincible.
While I hold it, I have unlimited uses of it, but it becomes a one-shot item if someone else comes into possession of it.
So, if someone replies to this post with "I can help you," then you've gained my complete trust. This laptop is a liability that needs to be dealt with before things go south.
It probably would have been better to just...not claim that? Especially if you ramp up activity, you could draw a night kill with higher degree of probability than draw an item stealer.
Can you explain why you went this route rather than just try to eat a kill? Or even two?
I'm slightly confused about your read on Hunt. I don't have much experience with him.
I liked a couple of his posts - they were fairly transparent, and I could track his thought process. It felt like he believed what he was saying, and it fit naturally with what he was reacting to. You think he's incapable of being competent as town, so that he has to be scum? Like. I really, really don't want to have to read other games, but I think I need a scum game/town game comparison from you that backs this up, because it sounds absurd.
Also, the post you quote as being ironic is missing context, if you click on the hyperlink going back to my original post. I asked TS to engage in a thought exercise where myself and Proph were modconfirmed town, to try and get him to re-evaluate (because I'm Town, and Proph is very likely town).
Without the context yes, it'd be hilarious in retrospect, but, y'know.
Okay, Tapping is probably town.
He's wrong, but town. Unless he's very, very good at faking conviction as scum.
@TappingStones
Let's try a thought exercise.
Pretend Proph and myself are both mod-confirmed town, publicly.
What does that mean for the gamestate, and the Ghosting wagon, in particular?
Literally no other person has expressed any interest in the wagon, or Ghosting, despite two town being the only people pushing it.
Granted, a large chunk of the game isn't exactly playing, admittedly.
Like. In this world (Proph/myself town), who is scum? What are they doing? If you could kill three people in that world, who would you kill to have the highest chance at killing multiple scum?
It's the fact that he talked to me like I was town, that he knew was town, calling TCM town, because he knows TCM is town.
TCM did not have enough content up to that point to warrant a read that is that in-depth.
You are functionally saying you expect people's playstyle and posting style to change just because their alignment changes. This is not true, generally. You need to look at the mindset behind the posts, rather than look for superficial similarities.
Shouldn't Brinatoo also be a townread of yours?
Why are you so sure that Proph is town? Can you put into words with good examples? Like, I don't think you can just say "He feels like town to me" and expect I should reasonably agree with you. As you said a big chunk of the playerbase is just not here/not contributing so I can't with any degree of confidence say I'm right about anything (sucks to say, but it's the most reasonable conclusion to make). I do have to trust myself though. And as such I also am aware of my own limitations and I am very well known for lettting people show me that they are town and moving on to killing the actual scum. My final votes of the day are very, very rarely on town players. I would wager I'm in the Top 2-3 players on the whole site for that stat, granted a lot of that is due to small sample size but some of it is due to working hard in thread and being fluid enough to jump on and off when I feel something strange or when a player shows me his reads are valid.
Right now Proph isn't doing much. He's handing out townreads and he was scum reading Ghosting and then said he wanted to unvote because Ghosting responded well. He has no reason to continue voting Ghosting but he can't lure himself away.
The question is why?
He knows who I am. He's read probably 20 or so of my games, and played with me a good chunk. He places a very high level of respect on my accuracy. He also knows that I hate playing scum with a passion, and tend to bus aggressively on d1 and d2, because I struggle to call people that I know are town, scum, with any conviction. Being wrong has historically been a town tell for me on D1. I don't expect people to take that into account this game obviously. I signed up on a gimmick because I didn't want to put much effort into this game, or even want to play in the first place. I just figured I'd help Iso make the game fire (as I was the last signup), and do the bare minimum (which would still be more than 2/3 of the game).
I wanted to use it as a chance to try out a new playstyle where I was clipped, abrupt, and held my cards very close to my chest, to generate reactions. But that lost appeal and strength when I had life kick me in the balls via work and holiday, as I kind of lost the pulse on the game I needed to have for it to be effective.
But I'm rambling off tangent.
Proph is historically poor scum, who suffers from one critical issue as scum - he can't stay engaged with the game. He posts very infrequently, and has large posts with a lot of very carefully crafted content to help try and make up for it. But it always reads like he's forcing himself to post.
I don't get that feeling here. He's not necessarily a shining bastion of towniness, but it's a stark departure from his scum play, and much more in line with his early game town play. You can get meta confirmation in that regard from Seppel's #391.
Like, yes, yes, it's at least theoretically possible that Proph came into this game with the intent to try and put me into his pocket and get me to town read him via /barning me, and being as active as he can. But I don't think that's the case.
You're welcome to try and keep pressuring him, I just don't think it's going to remotely be a useful use of your time. He's not going to get lynched, because he's very probably town.
(Also, I really doubt scum Proph has the testicular fortitude to goad you and others into voting him the way he has)
Heads up, I leave for a camping trip on Thursday - Sunday with no internet. I asked Iso if he wanted to replace me since I haven't even played yet and he opted to keep me in as opposed to looking for another replacement.
Finally a post where you give some insight! More of these might be useful.
@Proph - How are you feeling about this game?
@Bloscovi - What do you think about PoE as a scumhunting tool? Also, did you read any of Mistborn?
Tell me what you get from me answering this question/how me answering this question helps you solve the game, and I will be happy to answer.
TappingStones
Lean Town
Prophylaxis
Seppel
not_a_gimmick
No Read
Kraj
Matowar77
Brinatoo
Mindreaver
Bloscovi
Huntzilla
Lurking/Haven't Posted Much
Hunger
Ghosting
Jobie
Neutrals
Gentleman Johnny
TappingStones - reads the way he has in the other games I've read, plus he's really gunning for Proph. I don't agree, but he has conviction.
Proph - play is supported by Bloscovi in addition to my earlier thoughts.
Seppel - reaction to my posts indicates town.
not_a_gimmick - frustration with IABM in #347 reads genuine to me.
@Proph - About the "should have ended with a vote" thing. Do you mean Ghosting's #34? I'm willing to chalk that up to "it's still RVS and he isn't taking posts seriously yet."
@Bloscovi: You want to run Ghosting up because he agreed with you that GJ/TCM was probably town with not enough evidence to support his explanation?
@TappingStones: I like your reasoning and conviction, but have you read Twinborn where Proph got D1 lynched as town? Besides the false-claim he did in that game he seems the same to me.
Yes. Watchful because I still have no idea where his play is heading, and I don't see letting him do his thing as being good for any of us right now. If I get a whif of what scheme he's concocted I will let you know... but right now, IGMEOY(him)
I haven't got around to it yet. With the holiday and such I was simply waiting until my next catch up to place my vote where it needed to be (this post)... I was giving some time for more responses from him to dissuade me from his current position on my scum list... He didn't do so.
What's the purpose of this post, TS?
Buddying up to the whole game by allowing our scumreading of your predecessor aside, what kind of analysis were you hoping to get from wagons that have no flips? Oh, Proph beat me to it... I thought the same damn thing.
TS is town. I do not see a bit of difference in his style. I don't agree with his reads but I don't usually.
What is YOUR read on TS?
How does a question like "How are you feeling" shed light on one's alignment?
Do you feel like you are helping scum hunt, or just trying to look busy?
Vote Mindreaver
FOS Silvercrys
I did not read Mistborn. I tend to only read games I either play in, or a good friend played in and asked me to read through to give critique.
Generally if I have enough time to read a game, I'd play in it instead.
PoE is one of the strongest tools town has at its disposal, if utilized properly. Prior to LYLO/MYLO, I don't really care all that much if we lynch town, as long as it is A) not a town read of mine, and B) the lynch helps me figure the gamestate out.
Looking back at the stances people take on flipped players is great, to evaluate how genuine their thought process is. I do acknowledge that every player can't use the same PoE playstyle I do, though, or the necessary interactions to analyse won't exist.
Pretty much!
It's a case of having too much information. He knows I'm town, and he knew TCM was town (or at least not his buddy), so when he sees me call TCM probably town, he feels the need to agree with me, because I'm right.
I'm sure he over-explains things as both alignments, but the mindset the over-explaining has to come from doesn't feel like town to me. It feels like he /knew/ TCM was town, and he talked to me like I was town.
There was also no attempt to figure out my alignment for having the no-explanation read, given he said a few posts later that he hates reads/votes without reasoning.
Silvercrys has not really helped the slot's case.
Hm.
Zero scum reads of any strength?
If I give you a gun, and you have to pick 3 players to hit 2-3 scum, or the game ends with a loss, which three players do you kill?
I dunno. It's just a gut feeling when I read that post. Unsure how strongly it means in terms of Ghosting's alignment. At this point, I just want him to post more so we can get a better read on him.
@Bloscovi:
1. What is your read on Mindreaver?
2. What do you think about this post by Ghosting? I'm trying to reconcile how I feel about his first couple of posts and this one, since I thought the questions he asked in this post were pretty good.
Mindreaver is a light town read for reasons I don't remotely remember. I'm not taking notes this game.
I think it's a perfectly reasonable post, but not especially an alignment indicative one.
Question for you:
I'm town. Scum would know I'm town. If Ghosting is town, why would scum completely ignore the wagon, given I've effectively been trying to drive it, and take responsibility for it? Does this make more sense in ghosting town worlds or ghosting scum?
The utter lack of traction it's getting feels weird to me, although a large part of that is because 75% of the game isn't really playing, admittedly.
Ghosting reread had shockingly little of note besides going v/la twice for the same thing. I hope someone told his other game.
215 is odd. He's officially going on a v/la he's already been on, but takes the time to defend himself. To paraphrase: "that thing you say I'm doing, you do it too. Huntzilla said so."
I am not sure what drove ghosting to make that post. It could come from a similar place as matowar trying not to be scummy (being sick and tired of being run up just for doing his thing) or it could come from scum worrying about pressure.
What I don't like about this post is the appeal to another player. It just isn't necessary.
It's sort of the same thing bloscovi sees in the earlier interaction with himself and TCM. Why appeal to huntzilla if you don't know his alignment?
Doing seppel next for that farce of a T/S list. (9 unsures grumble grumble):
seppel's main contribution to the game is drive-by meta clearing. Well, not clearing. But saying things aren't alignment indicative.
He also tries to run up huntzilla for being more active than usual. While I think that's silly, it does match with the above though process.
I'm ready to put seppel in the "very probably town but can mostly just be ignored" pile unless the people he's clearing all start flipping scum.
More time after these tacos are in my belly.
Though it's difficult, just as you say, because most of the game isn't even playing, and I have a bunch of town reads. It's a bit worrying for me to clear like 9-10 names Day 1 in a game of 26 players, I feel.
I mean, yes, that's the case in ghosting town worlds, but that's not quite what I asked. I asked which world made more sense given how people are treating the wagon?
I know neither has posted a ton, but still.
I like your reasoning on Ghosting and Proph but I'd like to see more from Ghosting. He's supposed to be back tonight, isn't he? I'll give him some time to catch up, he doesn't have a lot of content to look at yet (besides the one post you didn't like and the questions post Proph pointed out). If I had to pull the trigger right now, I'd kill Hunger, Ghosting, and one of [Kraj, Matowar, Brinatoo, Mindreaver, Jobie] at random since I think they have equal chances of flipping scum. Hunger + Ghosting probably gives me one, hopefully the random kill gives me another. Puts my odds of not losing at 20% if Hunger or Ghosting is scum, which isn't great odds but it's better than Vegas.
Why Hunger, over someone else that hasn't posted much, like Jobie? You haven't mentioned him prior to this post, so what separates him in your mind?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I have a pretty strong town read on NAG.
Hum.
Now, this doesn't townclear him. All it proves is that, if he's scum, no one has caught him yet.
Still haven't seen anything particularly villagery, but you can't have it all.
Time to be a total ********.
vote silvercrys
Hi new guy. Why aren't you mafia?
I was initially not sure if you were talking about me.
Weird story, I just assumed I was town because there wasn't a link to a QT or list of my scumteam.
But it doesn't actually say it anywhere. Iso was a bit skimpy on the win condition. Do we just have to live?
Have you read my posts?
There's something I really want to ask, because I wasn't even completely positive I was town at first (except no scum team/link), but it probably crosses unwritten rules, even if Iso doesn't have them in the first post.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You were the mod for Famous Historical Figures, were you not?
Instead of telling you why I think Brinatoo is pretty likely town, I'm going to link this, and ask you to tell me what you think his alignment is, based on it.
I have a reason for doing so, kind of.
I'll explain my read, and what I was trying to do, afterwards!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Unvote
Vote Silvercrys
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
Hum.
Probably Silver, though I can't really take my reads on the players in question completely out of the picture.
Because if he's town here, there is absolutely scum being opportunistic.
Like possibly in #430.
It's an 'easy' lynch. It could still be on scum! But I had a light town read on Hardwood, and am just vaguely uncomfortable with the push on Silver. There's been stuff he's done I don't like, but there's also stuff like straight up putting no scum reads in a town/scum list that I have trouble seeing scum in his position doing.
I think Ghosting is the most likely scum of the three names you listed, and Mindreaver the most likely town (by a significant margin).
Silver is somewhere in between, and I'm not completely sure where I think he is on the sliding scale yet. Just that he's the best answer to your question, because if he's town, the wagon is likely a magnet for scum, now and in the future.
Maybe less so now if the scum team is super heavily lurkers, I guess?
(My comment about possibly 430 was very knee jerk and instinctual. I had a solid town read on you for reasons I'll get into after Proph answers my post, but my instinctual reaction was 'Wow, that's...potentially really opportunistic')
I'm rambling a little bit, but the question isn't the most relevant thing either? You can't fully take alignment considerations out of the question this early in a phase, and I'm content with my vote on Ghosting for now, since I think he's scum.
I'll do this sometime tomorrow, though it is a good exercise (in that it forces me to stop procrastinating and actually look at Brinatoo's posts, though without context).
I'll also answer your other question tomorrow - the one I couldn't answer on mobile.
I'll /barn Bloscovi once again and say that I have no idea why Silver is getting run up, since his posts since replacing in are competent and well reasoned out. My gut is fighting me on this once again, since I'm thinking "I'm townclearing too many people, there /has/ to be scum that I've cleared" and it'll be a pain in the neck to figure out which one. I don't see anything egregiously scummy from reading Silver's posts, though.
The question was a different take on your "if you had to shoot so and so now, who?"
This kind of fence sitting is so unhelpful. And Proph barning everything without reasons is less then useless.
Also if you haven't posted in 3-4 days and you are not V-LA why aren't you interacting? We have about 6-7 players participating right now and that's not going to help us catch the scum who are likely among those not posting.
This isn't necessarily scummy but it's definitely ironic as hell.
Yes he should. Thanks for the reminder.
Oh, you're Natalya? Welp, I 100% believe your Neutral claim now.
Also I might as well come out in full that I _need_ a watcher on me. Or someone to protect items from being stolen. Or a townie that can steal items. Or someone who can prevent my item from being stolen. Because of my item (laptop computer), I guarantee that there's at least one of those roles in the game, likely one town and one scum with those roles.
Basically my laptop can't fall into mafia hands because it makes its holder unlynchable and unkillable. I'm Boris Grishenko and true to my character's catchphrase "I'M INVINCIBLE!" I am in fact invincible.
While I hold it, I have unlimited uses of it, but it becomes a one-shot item if someone else comes into possession of it.
So, if someone replies to this post with "I can help you," then you've gained my complete trust. This laptop is a liability that needs to be dealt with before things go south.
It probably would have been better to just...not claim that? Especially if you ramp up activity, you could draw a night kill with higher degree of probability than draw an item stealer.
Can you explain why you went this route rather than just try to eat a kill? Or even two?
I liked a couple of his posts - they were fairly transparent, and I could track his thought process. It felt like he believed what he was saying, and it fit naturally with what he was reacting to. You think he's incapable of being competent as town, so that he has to be scum? Like. I really, really don't want to have to read other games, but I think I need a scum game/town game comparison from you that backs this up, because it sounds absurd.
Without the context yes, it'd be hilarious in retrospect, but, y'know.
Context exists!
1) What do you think about my wagon?
2) Is my wagon better than the earlier ones on TappingStones and Mindreaver?
3) Who's your top scum read?
It'd be cool if you gave us a T/S list, too.