I dismissed that interpretation because it regards a topic he is confident in and he feels like he has more insight in. That is not a situation you ask for advice about.
@Hardwood-He doesn't appear to be asking for advice. He's confused to what you don't like because you are being vague. It's a completely fair question for him to ask.
This is the problem with not playing transparently. It leads to people seeking clarification and in this case you are actually trying to punish him for that which is annoying.
Oh that's what you think is vague. I didn't say the original quote, and he didn't ask me what I don't like. That sequence was with another player entirely. Hopefully that clears it up.
The wood table on both of your avatars is messing me up for whatever reason. So the real question ends up being why can't you see that Hunt's question is obviously seeking clarification on what NAG is talking about? It's fairly obvious that this is what he asking about. For the third time so everyone can be crystal clear, when you hide your reads and answer questions, give reads ambiguously you do us a disservice because we can't analyze your thought process and it leads to this kind of confusion.
Just a note that I will probably not be around all that much this weekend. If you need anything from me after tomorrow, I will likely get to it on Monday.
-
A deadline has been set.
The deadline will expire on June 18th at 0000 hours, EST.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso either your numbers are messed up or this game is weird. There's also 3(?) people not voting who aren't listed, which means I'd have to go to the first page to see who's missing. That's kind of inconvenient.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
Hi. How about you answer my questions instead of discrediting me?
Your wagon is easily the best, regardless of your alignment. All three people gave reasoning.
Again, I'm not predicting which wagons are right. I'm analyzing which would give the most information.
Tell me what we would learn about the people on mindreaver's wagon if we had his rolecard?
I will give you a list though. Check the end of this post (since its fairly apparent you arent reading them very carefully)
He was refusing to take a solid stance, which looked to me like not wanting to get tripped up. But under questioning he stood by it, and I think its just the way he plays.
He moved to lean town for not capitulating to me.
My apologies for my lack of performance. I am working on the trasnsition from the normal school year to the summer school semester. I should have my plans in order and be more active on the weekend.
I brought up Hunger because I'm curious about your opinion on Seppel and "forcing him to care if he's town." With Hunger lurking and Seppel not caring, in your experience with Sep and your play to nudge him in a town direction if the same thing couldn't be applied to Hunger because your past experience with them is null?
Jobie why'd you go and post that? I was hoping he'd move onto Bloscovi next and I could land him... In America! Ah well [b] UNVOTE, Vote Hunger [\b] Stop lurking and give me something to read -.- like your thoughts on Proph or Ghosting's recent silence.
Emphasis on "something." Less than 3 weeks to add something, anything tangible with his V/LA in play.
This is easily the worst post in the thread so far. It adds nothing to solving the game. And he refuses to give reasons and then says others opinions are bad because they didn't give reasons. Like being a hypocrite much? The only good "wagon" I see so far is the mindreaver ones. The one on me was easily the worst. It's wasn't constructed with anything resembling logic.
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
Hey TS I found a scum.
Unvote,vote matowar
Could you talk about it a bit? I'd like to see your idea here.
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
Well I haven't given any reason. [/quote]
Oh don't sell yourself short. IMDB put forward the epic "Vote Mind, but I can't because I'm busy with this other solo crusade", and you "bought it for a dollar" I believe.
I would pass it all off as you aren't reading the game/paying attention, but you caught the whole sheeple thing almost as soon as I typed it.
I'm interested in your mat read. Also, why are you referencing TS as you vote?
What makes me town here, as opposed to the Invitational where you read me wrong all game?
Can you answer my question regarding Brinatoo?
Quote from Matowar »
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
I have no idea why this post is here, or what it is trying to accomplish.
Matowar: Once Ace Attorney ended, one of the things that you said you wanted to work on was case building on people you actually thought were scum. I think this game would be a perfect time to test it. Who do you think is scum? Why did you try to vote Hunger, who has only posted three posts and gone on V/LA? Why are you voting Hardwood?
Quote from not a gimmick »
He was refusing to take a solid stance, which looked to me like not wanting to get tripped up. But under questioning he stood by it, and I think its just the way he plays.
He moved to lean town for not capitulating to me,
Okay.
I have a difficult time reading Hardwood at the moment so I wanted to hear your thoughts.
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful, but want to see what you'd get out of a businessman lynch.
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful
Hey I resemble that remark! I'm contributing my rugged good looks. I'm flexing my bicep and showing you my remarkable smile. It kinda looks like this...
You come off way too uncaring. "This is dangerously close to a misrep" implies that you are trying to scare him, without actually engaging. Misrep is intended to be something intentionally done by scum, to flip the words town said. Either you think Hunt misreped you, or you have an alternative explaination to your voting style, or you were unclear. There is no middle ground like that quote tends to imply.
Quote from TS »
@GJ-Why are you so quiet? You seemed much more active in Ace Attorney post game QT.
The RL related reason is work transition and games. Being under heavy pressure since day 1 definitely didn't hurt either.
Quote from mato »
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
Ok, 1. Owww
2. I don't like how you are trying to stay under the radar. Do what I do: Look at a few players who catch you attention, and ignore the rest. If wagons form on people you aren't chasing, take a look at them and think it you like it or not.
Is there any particular reason I am absent from this list?
Quote from Brinatoo »
I brought up Hunger because I'm curious about your opinion on Seppel and "forcing him to care if he's town." With Hunger lurking and Seppel not caring, in your experience with Sep and your play to nudge him in a town direction if the same thing couldn't be applied to Hunger because your past experience with them is null?
Seppel made the comment that he might see us day 3, or whatever number he said. The problem is Hunger often lurks, but Seppel can be dragged kicking and screaming into a game. I also did not realize Hunger was in the game. I knew about Dragon Reign cause mod, and just from sign ups new IMAB would eventually post (or be replaced. Obviously the former happened). So Seppel was the only one I am caring about now. After his little holiday, I will be on his ass, just you wait.
Quote from Seppel »
Hey TS I found a scum.
Unvote,vote matowar
As much as I disliked the same post, I almost feel like mato is a trap. He did a lot of things that caught eyes in Ace Attorney, so I am not really interested in pursuing this route right now.
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
I'm so paranoid about that right now. I'll explain.
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
Off the wagon, I'm frustrated with IABM. These posts are deliberately unhelpful, and whenever he's directly addressed he does something silly like his last post. I really thought I was going to get a real response when he had trouble quoting me last night, but then nothing happened. If I have to go off of general helpfulness to solving the game, he's near the bottom.
The reason I'm paranoid about those two reads, is that they are based off of lack of posts, and lack of analysis more than anything they've done.
I also didn't like matowars post, it was too self-conscious about his own participation. As if to say "I haven't been around but here is everything I think in one long sentence". I'm not sure whether this was somebody in a rush/busy, or somebody trying to appear engaged while really lurking. Time will tell on that one.
Wow, people really trying to twist Hunt's words around. He worded it similar to how I would have worded it. You said you didn't like something about his post, he asked what you didn't like and then you attack him for it.
You are being vague on purpose and I don't understand why. You are creating a false attack on Hunt.
Wow, people really trying to twist Hunt's words around. He worded it similar to how I would have worded it. You said you didn't like something about his post, he asked what you didn't like and then you attack him for it.
You are being vague on purpose and I don't understand why. You are creating a false attack on Hunt.
@TS If you died and flipped town would you not consider people's reread of the game enough to find out you were completely misrepresented and therefore easily take down a scum member? Who are your town reads?
No. I doubt it.
Mato I don't know if you've read to some of Sir Chris's recent rants and complaints about how people have been playing recently but I've found myself agreeing with him.
Very few player seem to be thinking,"What is the scum motivation for that action?" Instead many players are voting and scum reading people because they don't like someone's playstyle or they can't find a town motivation. Town players do strange things. Town doesn't always have reasoning for their actions because they aren't trying to protect themselves. Scum already have a lot of information and have to pretend to not know things. That mindset leads scum play to be crafted to a greater degree than town mindset.
From my still brief experience most of the scum players that we've caught are lurkers. I'm 5-0 against the scum in my career and I can say that a lot of the early votes on me end up being town in the long run, not all of them though. I had a very good read on a player day one scum reading me in Classic for several days many other town players were calling that player one of their top town reads but I kept thinking about his play and never let up and we ended up lynching him in loyl and won the game. So I'm not saying you should consider all the people that have attacked me as town. But this game there could be scum on me because the players that have voted for me have no experience with me and might have just made a big mistake biting off more than they could chew, so to speak.
Him, Hunt and TS have a reputation for being run up on their playstyle apparently.
You may have a different definition of being "run up" then I do. When I use that term I mean someone ends up being the focus of a wagon and then getting mislynched. That has never happened to me. The only time I was ever mislynched was at the end of my first full game(Predator Mafia) where we were in POE and lynching me as vanilla town wasn't a bad play as it let us lock up the win the next day.
Thought I had posted my v/la in both games but it was just in Golden Eye, my apologies. I'll be back Monday evening, I'll be at an electronic music festival Saturday and Sunday, and working all day today.
I thought you got shot for getting to aggresive in StarCraft? Didn't most people seem to agree you went too far with Cyan there? Then again it was a terrible move for a dayvig so I guess it doesn't really count I actually quite like your play even if I find your in game personality a bit on the harsh side. What's Mindreaver doing wrong then? He doesn't seem to be going down too well with people though not for lack of trying to engage.
He was scowled harshly by no less than three others players in that game for blowing his wad on me when I was being town-read by quite a few people. I got revived in that game and was able to eat a nightkill later though!
Why don't you ask those players what they don't like about Mindreaver's play? I'm not super excited about us having so many players V-LA at the moment but nothing I can do about it. I would like the people who are less active to start speking up and that will be one of my priorities going forward for us to encourage that or at least be very aware of who is hiding out.
Oh and Matowar your play really remoinds of Tom in my first 3-4 games with him(which is not the best thing) nut it is what it is. If you are town then don't worry about people running you up. Just scum hunt. If you get lynched try to learn why but you don't need to play like these folks. Be yourself, you can be funny, brass, serious, mysterious, etc.
What's Mindreaver doing wrong then? He doesn't seem to be going down too well with people though not for lack of trying to engage.
It wasn't to me, but what the hell. I am town this game, you can take that to the bank. But I don't have the reps that other players do. Deservedly so, I haven't played as much, most people in this game haven't played with me at all. I suspect in 6 months things might be different and people will be able to tell town!mind from scum!mind with more accuracy.
What's Mindreaver doing wrong then? He doesn't seem to be going down too well with people though not for lack of trying to engage.
It wasn't to me, but what the hell. I am town this game, you can take that to the bank.
Wow, thanks Mindreaver! I was hoping the game would be this easy. No, but seriously those kind of comments are sort of a waste of breath don't you think. "Show, don't tell". I don't want you to tell me you are town, I want you to show me.
[quote from="Matowar77 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/700341-goldeneye-mafia-day-1-frigate?comment=264"]But I don't have the reps that other players do. Deservedly so, I haven't played as much, most people in this game haven't played with me at all. I suspect in 6 months things might be different and people will be able to tell town!mind from scum!mind with more accuracy.
You don't really need a rep. My rep is essentially "Good players can read me and bad players can't". But I guess that's true of most players.
You don't really need a rep. My rep is essentially "Good players can read me and bad players can't". But I guess that's true of most players.
Your rep is that you're abrasive and hard to get along with. You use that abrasion to get interaction, and apparently you're very capable. Your rep also means that you can come out, be jerkish, and not get yourself lynched just because of that. Whether you happen to agree with Sir Chris, or what you've espoused thus far; rubbing people the wrong way gets you lynched if people aren't used to your posting style, simple as that.
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
Not really. 3 Votes, 2 from reasonable people and Seppel just jumped ship with no reasoning (but oddly wants you to see it, and hasn't mentioned why... but I have my suspicions that he just wants to link himself to somebody townread by a large section of the playerbase, I'm re-reading to see if you've actually individually addressed him yet, because if not, that's odd).
You don't really need a rep. My rep is essentially "Good players can read me and bad players can't". But I guess that's true of most players.
Your rep is that you're abrasive and hard to get along with. You use that abrasion to get interaction, and apparently you're very capable. Your rep also means that you can come out, be jerkish, and not get yourself lynched just because of that. Whether you happen to agree with Sir Chris, or what you've espoused thus far; rubbing people the wrong way gets you lynched if people aren't used to your posting style, simple as that.
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
Not really. 3 Votes, 2 from reasonable people and Seppel just jumped ship with no reasoning (but oddly wants you to see it, and hasn't mentioned why... but I have my suspicions that he just wants to link himself to somebody townread by a large section of the playerbase, I'm re-reading to see if you've actually individually addressed him yet, because if not, that's odd).
Do you think I've been unreasonable? Have I "punished you" for not having a rep? I certainly think I'm being very fair in how I'm viewing you.
You said rubbing people the wrong way gets people lynched. Or what you call jerkish. That would be the play of inferior players. You shouldn't be lynching people because you don't like how they play. That's probably the worst mistake you can make in Mafia. My playstyle is very effective at getting reactions and nice information for the town to work with. And good players like me so I don't worry much. i'm a very nice player and treat players well. If players insult me and flame then I can put them in their place too.
since you don't know me I'll give you an example of how I fell for the trap of running people up I don't like (playstyle wise). There is a player named Tomsloger who has gotten very extreme reactions, many people couldn't stand his play when he first started and would go so far as to ask to replace out not to play with him. I voted him early on based on this and not on whether he was actually scum. That was bad play on my part, now I know better and try to deal more effectively with players that rile me up or do things I don't like.
Hence why I didn't vote Kraj even though I don't like his playstyle.
You said rubbing people the wrong way gets people lynched. Or what you call jerkish. That would be the play of inferior players. You shouldn't be lynching people because you don't like how they play. That's probably the worst mistake you can make in Mafia. My playstyle is very effective at getting reactions and nice information for the town to work with. And good players like me so I don't worry much. i'm a very nice player and treat players well. If players insult me and flame then I can put them in their place too.
TS I have no issue with how you and I are interacting. I definitely try not to Lynch people just because they are interacting with me in a way I don't like.
You said rubbing people the wrong way gets people lynched. Or what you call jerkish. That would be the play of inferior players. You shouldn't be lynching people because you don't like how they play. That's probably the worst mistake you can make in Mafia. My playstyle is very effective at getting reactions and nice information for the town to work with. And good players like me so I don't worry much. i'm a very nice player and treat players well. If players insult me and flame then I can put them in their place too.
TS I have no issue with how you and I are interacting. I definitely try not to Lynch people just because they are interacting with me in a way I don't like.
What's your feeling on the players that don't want to reveal their motivations?
I'm not sure on the specific scum mindset of it, besides a general idea of being evasive but I don't think many players would want to set themselves up to look secretive. So it's troublesome to me.
What's your feeling on the players that don't want to reveal their motivations?
I'm not sure on the specific scum mindset of it, besides a general idea of being evasive but I don't think many players would want to set themselves up to look secretive. So it's troublesome to me.
It depends. There are really a few categories here:
1) They've noticed something telling, and they don't want to blow the whistle yet. In twinborn, I had a tell on Rhand/Atog that I didn't necessary want to explain, because the second I did, they'd make an effort to stop doing it. There might be some of this.
2) They have some legitimate ability and don't want to blow it. For instance, if we had a doctor in the game, and a scum no-kill, the doctor would know who the scum kill target was and now has that person towncleared. But they can't explain without immediately dying. I see none of this so far.
3) They want just enough mystery to not get killed at night. Something like "Proph is town and I don't want to explain why right now" kinda goes there. Mostly WIFOM. I don't think something like this would be tied to some ability (like in #2) or based on some tell (#1).
4) They don't actually have reasons, and just want to appear to be doing something or get reactions. I think this is largely where we are. It's unhelpful, and hard to differentiate between town trying to get reactions in order to scumhunt, and scum doing it to appear to be doing things.
Not a fan of the 'only bad players would lynch me, good players would never' defense.
Is there a particular reason you choose to keep misrepping me? I said "read me" not lynch me. You even put your misquote in quotations to make it look like I said it. I said good players can read me. That has no bearing on my alignment. Or about lynching me. You appear to have some grudge and you'll say anything, no matter how false to try and make me look bad.
Is the case against me so bad that you have to continue to make things up?
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful
Hey I resemble that remark! I'm contributing my rugged good looks. I'm flexing my bicep and showing you my remarkable smile. It kinda looks like this...
Only more handsome.
If only I was better versed in Psychoanalysis.
Looks like a fine lynch.
Unsure how I feel about Matowar's latest post. My gut says that he's very likely to be town, but there are some parts that ring alarm bells in my head, like the focus on trying to appear town vs actually being town and worried about being scummy.
Quote from Matowar »
@Proph... again Why is Bloscovi so high on your T/S list? Would you not consider any of the earlier interactions an attempt at buddying?
I have him as a light town read based off of our mind meld regarding Ghosting. I'm eagerly waiting for his content on Saturday, but he's solid in my book.
@Seppel: Here it is:
Quote from Seppel »
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
My question is, can you explain to me why Brinatoo's post is townie?
I'm not reading you red, I've already said I'm greenreading you. Maybe not_a_gimmick is the one who wants to lynch you, I haven't checked that but it would explain both the misrepresentation and the vitriol. The point was the second sentence which you didn't quote.
But do keep instilling me with confidence.
You know, I am reading you as town, as you may even remember given that I just said so in this very post. But I will still never take anything you say seriously because you time and time again prove yourself unable to read posts. So I suppose I will henceforth cease communication with you and just let you do whatever you're going to do. Fun.
Can't you answer simple questions? Why would you change the text of what I wrote like you did? I could care less if you are town reading me I want to know why you are trying to misrep me. Do you not see how you are harming the game by misrepresenting what others have said. I never said anything resembling 'only bad players would lynch me, good players would never'.
In regards to IABM- You said "looks like a fine lynch". That's called testing the waters and implies you want to vote for him.
So basically you have failed to read my posts and then changed the wording of my sentence to convey a totally different meaning.
At least we have this on the record! But do be an adult and actually deal with your mistakes. This is supposed to be an intellectual game where we use logic to solve a problem NOT try to give people a bad exerience. Consider others when you play this game is all I ask.
@IABM: Who's your primary town read and your primary scum read? You are how I would imagine a fool or whatever the name of the role that wins if they are lynched would act.
My primary town and scum reads have been clearly laid out, lulz!
What makes it "good" TS? Was it the detailed reasoning of IABM/Seppel?
Well I haven't given any reason.
I don't understand what's going on with these quote errors.
@IABM-What's going on in this game?
We've got a bunch of new players who are making scummy posts. But since they're new it's hard to distinguish between them not knowing what's going on and how to get information vs simply being scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unsure how I feel about Matowar's latest post. My gut says that he's very likely to be town, but there are some parts that ring alarm bells in my head, like the focus on trying to appear town vs actually being town and worried about being scummy.
Quote from Matowar »
@Proph... again Why is Bloscovi so high on your T/S list? Would you not consider any of the earlier interactions an attempt at buddying?
I have him as a light town read based off of our mind meld regarding Ghosting. I'm eagerly waiting for his content on Saturday, but he's solid in my book.
@Seppel: Here it is:
Quote from Seppel »
I was waiting to vote to see Brinatoo's next post and it didn't come off as the way I'd expect it to if Brinatoo were scum. In fact, it's a very townie response, and it jives with his mindset.
My question is, can you explain to me why Brinatoo's post is townie?
He was actively trying to evolve the game and didn't back off or change his tune when I voted him.
OK, thanks for your response. I'll be taking a look at Brinatoo later I think.
At this moment I have a fair number of townreads, but no one has done anything egregiously scummy at the moment, other than Ghosting who I'm still evaluating. Everyone else is just... Not Town.
I think I might want to shift to building The Box or something.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Quote from Mindreaver »
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
I stated my reason, but it was also pretty much accusing you of being deceitful. Are you going to go back on saying the other person wasn't misreping you, or are you saying I am correct, or something else entirely?
As far as Seppel goes, his voting style should have culled long ago, but it is what it is.
Quote from mato »
@GJ In AA I got picked apart in seconds when I hit Ghosting and TS's scumdar, and completely fell flat trying to defend myself. Hence I'm pretty worried about appearing scummy, which will probably get me killed. I'll try to relax a bit more and focus on getting something solid so I can participate in a way that doesn't suddenly derail town into all hating me
It happens. They were both heavily town read, but it didn't make them correct. Keep trucking.
@GJ: Would you like some pressure buddy? Wink Well I actually can't help with that but you do know Ghosting far better than I, Is he being any different to his usual self? Him, Hunt and TS have a reputation for being run up on their playstyle apparently.
I really don't. I remember Naka/Burst, but they never really stood out to me.
Quote from Proph »
Mindreaver feels pretty town to me, and I am not understanding the votes on him.
I am kind of leaning that way as well, although I want to see him respond to my points.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Same, though I'm hesitant to townread players based off of doing flat out Nothing. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was vigged, for instance.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Same, though I'm hesitant to townread players based off of doing flat out Nothing. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was vigged, for instance.
I'll take a page out of Chris's book from a recent game: If he is scum, what he is doing will not end up with his team winning the game.
The wood table on both of your avatars is messing me up for whatever reason. So the real question ends up being why can't you see that Hunt's question is obviously seeking clarification on what NAG is talking about? It's fairly obvious that this is what he asking about. For the third time so everyone can be crystal clear, when you hide your reads and answer questions, give reads ambiguously you do us a disservice because we can't analyze your thought process and it leads to this kind of confusion.
Hardwood_Paneling (1): Matowar77
Ghosting (2): Prophylaxis, Bloscovi
TappingStones (2): Mindreaver, Brinatoo
Mindreaver (3): Jobie, Gentleman Johnny, Seppel
Bloscovi (2): imabusinessman, Huntzilla
imabusinessman (1): not_a_gimmick
Huntzilla (1): Hardwood_Paneling
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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Just a note that I will probably not be around all that much this weekend. If you need anything from me after tomorrow, I will likely get to it on Monday.
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A deadline has been set.
The deadline will expire on June 18th at 0000 hours, EST.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Let me know if you need any reasoning for any of those reads, though I have been pretty transparent about my thought process.
What makes me town here, as opposed to the Invitational where you read me wrong all game?
Can you answer my question regarding Brinatoo?
Your wagon is easily the best, regardless of your alignment. All three people gave reasoning.
Again, I'm not predicting which wagons are right. I'm analyzing which would give the most information.
Tell me what we would learn about the people on mindreaver's wagon if we had his rolecard?
I will give you a list though. Check the end of this post (since its fairly apparent you arent reading them very carefully) He was refusing to take a solid stance, which looked to me like not wanting to get tripped up. But under questioning he stood by it, and I think its just the way he plays.
He moved to lean town for not capitulating to me. I am almost entirely sure we saw different things.
Though I think proph himself knows what I saw and that should help us quite a lot in this game.
prophylaxis - matowar - brinatoo - kraj
hardwood - bloscovi
seppel - jobie - huntzilla - ghosting
tappingstones - mindreaver
businessman
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Unvote,vote matowar
Could you talk about it a bit? I'd like to see your idea here.
Oh don't sell yourself short. IMDB put forward the epic "Vote Mind, but I can't because I'm busy with this other solo crusade", and you "bought it for a dollar" I believe.
I would pass it all off as you aren't reading the game/paying attention, but you caught the whole sheeple thing almost as soon as I typed it.
I'm interested in your mat read. Also, why are you referencing TS as you vote?
I don't understand what's going on with these quote errors.
I have no idea why this post is here, or what it is trying to accomplish.
Matowar: Once Ace Attorney ended, one of the things that you said you wanted to work on was case building on people you actually thought were scum. I think this game would be a perfect time to test it. Who do you think is scum? Why did you try to vote Hunger, who has only posted three posts and gone on V/LA? Why are you voting Hardwood?
Okay.
I have a difficult time reading Hardwood at the moment so I wanted to hear your thoughts.
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful, but want to see what you'd get out of a businessman lynch.
Can you explain to me your Brinatoo townread?
Hey I resemble that remark! I'm contributing my rugged good looks. I'm flexing my bicep and showing you my remarkable smile. It kinda looks like this...
Only more handsome.
My skin's not jaundiced and yellow.
You come off way too uncaring. "This is dangerously close to a misrep" implies that you are trying to scare him, without actually engaging. Misrep is intended to be something intentionally done by scum, to flip the words town said. Either you think Hunt misreped you, or you have an alternative explaination to your voting style, or you were unclear. There is no middle ground like that quote tends to imply.
The RL related reason is work transition and games. Being under heavy pressure since day 1 definitely didn't hurt either.
Ok, 1. Owww
2. I don't like how you are trying to stay under the radar. Do what I do: Look at a few players who catch you attention, and ignore the rest. If wagons form on people you aren't chasing, take a look at them and think it you like it or not.
Is there any particular reason I am absent from this list?
Seppel made the comment that he might see us day 3, or whatever number he said. The problem is Hunger often lurks, but Seppel can be dragged kicking and screaming into a game. I also did not realize Hunger was in the game. I knew about Dragon Reign cause mod, and just from sign ups new IMAB would eventually post (or be replaced. Obviously the former happened). So Seppel was the only one I am caring about now. After his little holiday, I will be on his ass, just you wait.
As much as I disliked the same post, I almost feel like mato is a trap. He did a lot of things that caught eyes in Ace Attorney, so I am not really interested in pursuing this route right now.
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm so paranoid about that right now. I'll explain.
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
Off the wagon, I'm frustrated with IABM. These posts are deliberately unhelpful, and whenever he's directly addressed he does something silly like his last post. I really thought I was going to get a real response when he had trouble quoting me last night, but then nothing happened. If I have to go off of general helpfulness to solving the game, he's near the bottom.
The reason I'm paranoid about those two reads, is that they are based off of lack of posts, and lack of analysis more than anything they've done.
I also didn't like matowars post, it was too self-conscious about his own participation. As if to say "I haven't been around but here is everything I think in one long sentence". I'm not sure whether this was somebody in a rush/busy, or somebody trying to appear engaged while really lurking. Time will tell on that one.
And I didn't see the question.
That happened to Ghosting last game.
And I didn't see the question.
That happened to Ghosting last game.
No. I doubt it.
Mato I don't know if you've read to some of Sir Chris's recent rants and complaints about how people have been playing recently but I've found myself agreeing with him.
Very few player seem to be thinking,"What is the scum motivation for that action?" Instead many players are voting and scum reading people because they don't like someone's playstyle or they can't find a town motivation. Town players do strange things. Town doesn't always have reasoning for their actions because they aren't trying to protect themselves. Scum already have a lot of information and have to pretend to not know things. That mindset leads scum play to be crafted to a greater degree than town mindset.
From my still brief experience most of the scum players that we've caught are lurkers. I'm 5-0 against the scum in my career and I can say that a lot of the early votes on me end up being town in the long run, not all of them though. I had a very good read on a player day one scum reading me in Classic for several days many other town players were calling that player one of their top town reads but I kept thinking about his play and never let up and we ended up lynching him in loyl and won the game. So I'm not saying you should consider all the people that have attacked me as town. But this game there could be scum on me because the players that have voted for me have no experience with me and might have just made a big mistake biting off more than they could chew, so to speak.
You may have a different definition of being "run up" then I do. When I use that term I mean someone ends up being the focus of a wagon and then getting mislynched. That has never happened to me. The only time I was ever mislynched was at the end of my first full game(Predator Mafia) where we were in POE and lynching me as vanilla town wasn't a bad play as it let us lock up the win the next day.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
He was scowled harshly by no less than three others players in that game for blowing his wad on me when I was being town-read by quite a few people. I got revived in that game and was able to eat a nightkill later though!
Why don't you ask those players what they don't like about Mindreaver's play? I'm not super excited about us having so many players V-LA at the moment but nothing I can do about it. I would like the people who are less active to start speking up and that will be one of my priorities going forward for us to encourage that or at least be very aware of who is hiding out.
Oh and Matowar your play really remoinds of Tom in my first 3-4 games with him(which is not the best thing) nut it is what it is. If you are town then don't worry about people running you up. Just scum hunt. If you get lynched try to learn why but you don't need to play like these folks. Be yourself, you can be funny, brass, serious, mysterious, etc.
It wasn't to me, but what the hell. I am town this game, you can take that to the bank. But I don't have the reps that other players do. Deservedly so, I haven't played as much, most people in this game haven't played with me at all. I suspect in 6 months things might be different and people will be able to tell town!mind from scum!mind with more accuracy.
As promised, I'd rather apply pressure elsewhere:
Unvote, Vote iamabusinessman
I want to see a real post from you.
Wow, thanks Mindreaver! I was hoping the game would be this easy. No, but seriously those kind of comments are sort of a waste of breath don't you think. "Show, don't tell". I don't want you to tell me you are town, I want you to show me.
You don't really need a rep. My rep is essentially "Good players can read me and bad players can't". But I guess that's true of most players.
The last part feels self-conscious to me. The "as promised," and then post script "I want to see a real post from you". Set off my spider sense.
Do you feel pressure on yourself?
Your rep is that you're abrasive and hard to get along with. You use that abrasion to get interaction, and apparently you're very capable. Your rep also means that you can come out, be jerkish, and not get yourself lynched just because of that. Whether you happen to agree with Sir Chris, or what you've espoused thus far; rubbing people the wrong way gets you lynched if people aren't used to your posting style, simple as that.
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
Not really. 3 Votes, 2 from reasonable people and Seppel just jumped ship with no reasoning (but oddly wants you to see it, and hasn't mentioned why... but I have my suspicions that he just wants to link himself to somebody townread by a large section of the playerbase, I'm re-reading to see if you've actually individually addressed him yet, because if not, that's odd).
Do you think I've been unreasonable? Have I "punished you" for not having a rep? I certainly think I'm being very fair in how I'm viewing you.
You said rubbing people the wrong way gets people lynched. Or what you call jerkish. That would be the play of inferior players. You shouldn't be lynching people because you don't like how they play. That's probably the worst mistake you can make in Mafia. My playstyle is very effective at getting reactions and nice information for the town to work with. And good players like me so I don't worry much. i'm a very nice player and treat players well. If players insult me and flame then I can put them in their place too.
since you don't know me I'll give you an example of how I fell for the trap of running people up I don't like (playstyle wise). There is a player named Tomsloger who has gotten very extreme reactions, many people couldn't stand his play when he first started and would go so far as to ask to replace out not to play with him. I voted him early on based on this and not on whether he was actually scum. That was bad play on my part, now I know better and try to deal more effectively with players that rile me up or do things I don't like.
Hence why I didn't vote Kraj even though I don't like his playstyle.
TS I have no issue with how you and I are interacting. I definitely try not to Lynch people just because they are interacting with me in a way I don't like.
What's your feeling on the players that don't want to reveal their motivations?
I'm not sure on the specific scum mindset of it, besides a general idea of being evasive but I don't think many players would want to set themselves up to look secretive. So it's troublesome to me.
It depends. There are really a few categories here:
1) They've noticed something telling, and they don't want to blow the whistle yet. In twinborn, I had a tell on Rhand/Atog that I didn't necessary want to explain, because the second I did, they'd make an effort to stop doing it. There might be some of this.
2) They have some legitimate ability and don't want to blow it. For instance, if we had a doctor in the game, and a scum no-kill, the doctor would know who the scum kill target was and now has that person towncleared. But they can't explain without immediately dying. I see none of this so far.
3) They want just enough mystery to not get killed at night. Something like "Proph is town and I don't want to explain why right now" kinda goes there. Mostly WIFOM. I don't think something like this would be tied to some ability (like in #2) or based on some tell (#1).
4) They don't actually have reasons, and just want to appear to be doing something or get reactions. I think this is largely where we are. It's unhelpful, and hard to differentiate between town trying to get reactions in order to scumhunt, and scum doing it to appear to be doing things.
Is there a particular reason you choose to keep misrepping me? I said "read me" not lynch me. You even put your misquote in quotations to make it look like I said it. I said good players can read me. That has no bearing on my alignment. Or about lynching me. You appear to have some grudge and you'll say anything, no matter how false to try and make me look bad.
Is the case against me so bad that you have to continue to make things up?
Why exactly does IABM look lynchable to you?
Seems like a really lazy vote on your part.
@IABM-What's going on in this game?
I have him as a light town read based off of our mind meld regarding Ghosting. I'm eagerly waiting for his content on Saturday, but he's solid in my book.
@Seppel: Here it is:
My question is, can you explain to me why Brinatoo's post is townie?
Can't you answer simple questions? Why would you change the text of what I wrote like you did? I could care less if you are town reading me I want to know why you are trying to misrep me. Do you not see how you are harming the game by misrepresenting what others have said. I never said anything resembling 'only bad players would lynch me, good players would never'.
In regards to IABM- You said "looks like a fine lynch". That's called testing the waters and implies you want to vote for him.
So basically you have failed to read my posts and then changed the wording of my sentence to convey a totally different meaning.
At least we have this on the record! But do be an adult and actually deal with your mistakes. This is supposed to be an intellectual game where we use logic to solve a problem NOT try to give people a bad exerience. Consider others when you play this game is all I ask.
Why not ask those players? Engage them directly.
Comes across that you don't really want to know why people are voting for them but you want others to talk about it.
I think scum is more likely to phrase a question like this.
As town I would be saying things like @person A "I'm not seeing mindreaver the same way that you are. What specifically aren't you liking?"
My primary town and scum reads have been clearly laid out, lulz!
We've got a bunch of new players who are making scummy posts. But since they're new it's hard to distinguish between them not knowing what's going on and how to get information vs simply being scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He was actively trying to evolve the game and didn't back off or change his tune when I voted him.
At this moment I have a fair number of townreads, but no one has done anything egregiously scummy at the moment, other than Ghosting who I'm still evaluating. Everyone else is just... Not Town.
I think I might want to shift to building The Box or something.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
I stated my reason, but it was also pretty much accusing you of being deceitful. Are you going to go back on saying the other person wasn't misreping you, or are you saying I am correct, or something else entirely?
As far as Seppel goes, his voting style should have culled long ago, but it is what it is.
It happens. They were both heavily town read, but it didn't make them correct. Keep trucking.
I really don't. I remember Naka/Burst, but they never really stood out to me.
I am kind of leaning that way as well, although I want to see him respond to my points.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'll take a page out of Chris's book from a recent game: If he is scum, what he is doing will not end up with his team winning the game.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I will play on comfortably, then.