saying this out loud sure doesnt seem like good scumhunting. especially with very little to analyze.
tell me proph. how are you as a coach?
I think you were wrong here about there being very little to analyze, though perhaps being fresh eyes (I went to bed early and this game already has nearly as many posts as the last GJ game we were in!) makes it easier to see that.
I really don't like how much the idea of NL has been brought up in the first day here, by both you and JD. I get that it's a GJ game, and I can't speak to his previous games-but last game NLing was *demonstrably* the correct play, while here we have far less information about one of the factors leading to it (namely the roles in the game) AND the other factor (the size of the game) isn't nearly as scum-favored. Here, we can almost definitely afford to give up a town player by chance (though obviously a truly random lynch is far from ideal) if it provides information; it's excessively unlikely to end the game immediately.
So far I sort of don't like JD for town, though I'll be interested in hearing what he has to say about Tom/Proph and Huntzilla to see if that changes.
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I assume it is Tom's no lynch is to do with GJ's Sig.
So for a 12 player game usually means a 3 man scum team right? So if we no lynch it would be 8 townies vs 3 scum assuming no NK's other than the mafia NK.
But lynching normally yields either 7 vs 3 75% time or 8 vs 2 25% of the time, assuming no bias toward lynching a player from either team i.e. completely random lynch.
Is the 25% chance of lynching a scum worth the 75% chance of being down a townie, particularly if that townie is a PR?
It's been said, but this post is worrysome.
One thing holds me back from voting JD though: Atog.
I don't really feel like indulging this discussion any more since you seem to be set on discovering that next radical strat to change the mafia metagame.
It's probably null since it seems like something you would try to do as either alignment, but I'll be watching closely to see if you use it as an excuse to avoid actually playing so BE WARNED.
I like KJ the most out of you guys so far because he thinks like me. Proph might be scum actually, I feel like he'd be peppier if he was town.
The warning in this post feels off. And also the "you guys" feels like he distances himself from town.
saying this out loud sure doesnt seem like good scumhunting. especially with very little to analyze.
tell me proph. how are you as a coach?
I think you were wrong here about there being very little to analyze, though perhaps being fresh eyes (I went to bed early and this game already has nearly as many posts as the last GJ game we were in!) makes it easier to see that.
I really don't like how much the idea of NL has been brought up in the first day here, by both you and JD. I get that it's a GJ game, and I can't speak to his previous games-but last game NLing was *demonstrably* the correct play, while here we have far less information about one of the factors leading to it (namely the roles in the game) AND the other factor (the size of the game) isn't nearly as scum-favored. Here, we can almost definitely afford to give up a town player by chance (though obviously a truly random lynch is far from ideal) if it provides information; it's excessively unlikely to end the game immediately.
So far I sort of don't like JD for town, though I'll be interested in hearing what he has to say about Tom/Proph and Huntzilla to see if that changes.
Shinen is overexplaining the whole no lynch thing here. Not liking shinen too much either.
vote atog, but consider my vote on shinen as well.
Unrelated, I like both Proph's and tom's reactions to my questions.
Mindreaver is also making me raise my eyebrow, given that the two posts he's had so far are all solely IIoA (information instead of analysis).
I guess, I mean, it's page one. How often do you guys see analysis that early? Granted, your claim did make me type up a big long analysis, but I was a bit self conscious of posting it. I don't know that I came to any great conclusions (we can't verify your claim, and it doesn't necessarily make me lean one way or another on you). It all came down to, are you the type of scum player that would rather look townish by saving us an accidental kill? You'd trade a possible free kill for nothing but some minor goodwill. I don't really know you, maybe somebody else could chime in and say "Oh yeah, proph likes a long con" or "He'd definitely rather take the free kill, he's town this game".
If I had to offer up analysis that is relatively unexplored, I'd point to the fact that my post (#26) was rather rambling (having contained the proph analysis before I deleted it, and it really doesn't make much sense without it). As soon as I clicked the button I'd realized that scum could 100% night kill proph tonight, it's not targeting. It doesn't really affect any town/scum percentage calculations, unless you assume we won't lynch proph (due to his "claim"). I was expecting that somebody would bring that up, in kind of a "why did you think that? Proph isn't free and clear confirmed town" post. Which I was sure I was going to have to chalk up to being new, and terrible. But instead I got JD completely agreeing with me. Which was 100% different then I would have expected. Add that together with him buddying Tom's no-lynch campaign, and I think JD is just trying too hard to agree with everyone. Feels slightly scummy, since neither stance really costs him anything.
@Mindreaver - How do you know that the NK doesn't target?
I guess I don't. I probably shouldn't be making assumptions either way. The only thing that made me feel the night kill wouldn't kill proph was that who would it kill? The whole scum team?
I guess I don't. I probably shouldn't be making assumptions either way. The only thing that made me feel the night kill wouldn't kill proph was that who would it kill? The whole scum team?
in general, mafia chooses a person to perform the nightkill. they decide as a team, but only one pulls the trigger so to speak
dont be afraid to post whatever youre thinking about though. if youre town, theres no reason to censor yourself
I think I can explain why JD jumped on me... it's simple if you think about it.
JD saw that Tom posted the comment about my lurking nature, and JD thought it would be easy to mislynch the lurky guy. This could be attributed to coming back from hiatus and throwing suspicion off of himself as quickly as possible, or it could be because he's scum looking for traction.
I'm guessing scum right now if you look at the other posts he made. I believe Proph mentioned IIoA, but I feel it's a bit early to be worried about lack of analysis.
Also, Tom planting the lurker idea in JD's head could be coaching, except we're talking about Tom here, and I have no faith in his foresight to be able to pull that move off. So...
Vote JD
The warning in this post feels off. And also the "you guys" feels like he distances himself from town.
The warning was 100% serious. Last time I played with tom, I read him completely wrong makes me hesitant to form an early read on him now. However with tom's posting frequency I think there's a good chance that scum!tom would end up slipping up when interacting with someone somewhere, which is why I sternly but gently nudged him away from the safe topic of no lynching and into more readable territory.
I'm liking Rhand / JD for scum rn. Rhand demonstrates suspicion for his buddy to pick up dat town cred, then immediately directs attention away to 2 others.
Quote from Mindreaver »
I don't really know you, maybe somebody else could chime in and say "Oh yeah, proph likes a long con" or "He'd definitely rather take the free kill, he's town this game".
I know proph and he's too boring to pull something like this. (This is a guy who's favorite candidate is John Kasich)
Also, Tom planting the lurker idea in JD's head could be coaching, except we're talking about Tom here, and I have no faith in his foresight to be able to pull that move off.
The warning was 100% serious. Last time I played with tom, I read him completely wrong makes me hesitant to form an early read on him now. However with tom's posting frequency I think there's a good chance that scum!tom would end up slipping up when interacting with someone somewhere, which is why I sternly but gently nudged him away from the safe topic of no lynching and into more readable territory.
i have the weirdest mafia reputation...
but yes, i used huntz as the example on purpose. can we let jd explain now?
Someone was voting no lynch off the bat and they said it wasn't random, I was trying to get my head around that. Also one has done anything particularly scummy yet imo.
Quote from jd »
I'm liking Tom and Proph for Town currently.
Liking Huntzilla for Scum.
Reconcile these two statements, please? Why do you think Huntzilla is scum, and why are tom and I town?
In addition, if you think Huntzilla is scum, why aren't you voting him?
I dislike Shinen's post - it falls into the same trap as Mindreaver's posts as being light on analysis and heavy on general information. And I offer him a similar question - if you don't like jd as town, then why are you not voting him?
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@Mindreaver: Welcome to the game! I hope that you'll find MTGS Mafia as fun to play as many of us do around here.
It's true that page 1 doesn't necessarily lend itself to a lot of analysis, but I was kind of expecting you to play around/joke in RVS, instead of adding to jd's optimization discussion. It set off warning lights in my head, since when I see that behavior not in RVS I scumread it.
@Hunger - how is my claim interesting?
Quote from Togs »
I know proph and he's too boring to pull something like this. (This is a guy who's favorite candidate is John Kasich)
Favorite REPUBLICAN candidate, mind you. (I actually don't really support one, just watching the political race with amusement)
I dislike Shinen's post - it falls into the same trap as Mindreaver's posts as being light on analysis and heavy on general information. And I offer him a similar question - if you don't like jd as town, then why are you not voting him?
Because while I'm not going to push for a quick decision to no lynch based on what I've seen in a recent game, I'm also not going to place my vote on somebody on what I described as 'sort of not liking him for town.' At least not without a consensus that we're interested in pushing him towards that direction. Hell, at least one player hadn't even *posted* at that point; I wasn't looking to push towards a lynch so much as put my opinion out and generate discussion.
As for lacking analysis, I didn't want to bring up the idea right away considering it didn't seem immediately pertinent, but my instincts towards the whole early exchange between Atog and Tom looked like distancing on Atog's part. Of course, that might just be Atog's playstyle, but he seemed unnecessarily aggressive.
@Tordeck: Care to elaborate on the 'not random' vote?
@Rhand: How was I overexplaining exactly, and what about that makes you suspicious of me?
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Since I asked the moderator I am going to say that the Mafia kill does target.
I don't have any strong opinions on anyone either way. I am not really critically reading the thread though so I need to spend some time doing that later tomorrow, busy studying for the day.
Would you vote for jd if I promise to unvote him after you vote?
I don't want to pass up relevant wagon information this early in the game.
I would not, but if it helps with the information you want, you can consider my vote on him for all purposes but a willingness to immediately lynch him. While I don't trust him as town, I don't want him lynched until we've had more discussion.
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Huntz one post of the game was about liking proph's role. There was no comment as to his opinion on said claim or any comment about the no lynch possibly, it was a nothing post.
saying this out loud sure doesnt seem like good scumhunting. especially with very little to analyze.
tell me proph. how are you as a coach?
I think you were wrong here about there being very little to analyze, though perhaps being fresh eyes (I went to bed early and this game already has nearly as many posts as the last GJ game we were in!) makes it easier to see that.
I really don't like how much the idea of NL has been brought up in the first day here, by both you and JD. I get that it's a GJ game, and I can't speak to his previous games-but last game NLing was *demonstrably* the correct play, while here we have far less information about one of the factors leading to it (namely the roles in the game) AND the other factor (the size of the game) isn't nearly as scum-favored. Here, we can almost definitely afford to give up a town player by chance (though obviously a truly random lynch is far from ideal) if it provides information; it's excessively unlikely to end the game immediately.
So far I sort of don't like JD for town, though I'll be interested in hearing what he has to say about Tom/Proph and Huntzilla to see if that changes.
I didn't bring up NL, that's a misrep, I was trying to understand if there is any advantage to no lynch over lynching.
I addressed Huntz above, Tom is a Gut feel for town and Proph I believe his claim.
Mindreaver is also making me raise my eyebrow, given that the two posts he's had so far are all solely IIoA (information instead of analysis).
I guess, I mean, it's page one. How often do you guys see analysis that early? Granted, your claim did make me type up a big long analysis, but I was a bit self conscious of posting it. I don't know that I came to any great conclusions (we can't verify your claim, and it doesn't necessarily make me lean one way or another on you). It all came down to, are you the type of scum player that would rather look townish by saving us an accidental kill? You'd trade a possible free kill for nothing but some minor goodwill. I don't really know you, maybe somebody else could chime in and say "Oh yeah, proph likes a long con" or "He'd definitely rather take the free kill, he's town this game".
If I had to offer up analysis that is relatively unexplored, I'd point to the fact that my post (#26) was rather rambling (having contained the proph analysis before I deleted it, and it really doesn't make much sense without it). As soon as I clicked the button I'd realized that scum could 100% night kill proph tonight, it's not targeting. It doesn't really affect any town/scum percentage calculations, unless you assume we won't lynch proph (due to his "claim"). I was expecting that somebody would bring that up, in kind of a "why did you think that? Proph isn't free and clear confirmed town" post. Which I was sure I was going to have to chalk up to being new, and terrible. But instead I got JD completely agreeing with me. Which was 100% different then I would have expected. Add that together with him buddying Tom's no-lynch campaign, and I think JD is just trying too hard to agree with everyone. Feels slightly scummy, since neither stance really costs him anything.
unvote, vote JD
I asked questions about the no lynch, I was undecided and trying to form an opinion on it. Saying I was in favor is a misrep. My opinion on proph is based on his claim and reasoning for claiming.
I think I can explain why JD jumped on me... it's simple if you think about it.
JD saw that Tom posted the comment about my lurking nature, and JD thought it would be easy to mislynch the lurky guy. This could be attributed to coming back from hiatus and throwing suspicion off of himself as quickly as possible, or it could be because he's scum looking for traction.
I'm guessing scum right now if you look at the other posts he made. I believe Proph mentioned IIoA, but I feel it's a bit early to be worried about lack of analysis.
Also, Tom planting the lurker idea in JD's head could be coaching, except we're talking about Tom here, and I have no faith in his foresight to be able to pull that move off. So...
Vote JD
Someone was voting no lynch off the bat and they said it wasn't random, I was trying to get my head around that. Also one has done anything particularly scummy yet imo.
Quote from jd »
I'm liking Tom and Proph for Town currently.
Liking Huntzilla for Scum.
Reconcile these two statements, please? Why do you think Huntzilla is scum, and why are tom and I town?
In addition, if you think Huntzilla is scum, why aren't you voting him?
I dislike Shinen's post - it falls into the same trap as Mindreaver's posts as being light on analysis and heavy on general information. And I offer him a similar question - if you don't like jd as town, then why are you not voting him?
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@Rhand: What did you like about my explanation to RVS?
@Mindreaver: Welcome to the game! I hope that you'll find MTGS Mafia as fun to play as many of us do around here.
It's true that page 1 doesn't necessarily lend itself to a lot of analysis, but I was kind of expecting you to play around/joke in RVS, instead of adding to jd's optimization discussion. It set off warning lights in my head, since when I see that behavior not in RVS I scumread it.
@Hunger - how is my claim interesting?
Quote from Togs »
I know proph and he's too boring to pull something like this. (This is a guy who's favorite candidate is John Kasich)
Favorite REPUBLICAN candidate, mind you. (I actually don't really support one, just watching the political race with amusement)
I did a quick reread between those 2 posts, and Huntz post bothered me.
Not voting as I have no vote. Will self hammer if run up to lynch range to prove said claim.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I would not, but if it helps with the information you want, you can consider my vote on him for all purposes but a willingness to immediately lynch him. While I don't trust him as town, I don't want him lynched until we've had more discussion.
I was going to unvote him though
Welp, we have four votes on a townie wagon, which isn't quite good enough for wagon analysis. I'm disappointed.
tom: My best scum game is the 2015 MTGS Mafia Invitational.
@Atog (I'll call you Atog to make you scumread me :P): I agree with your read on tom (in that his play in Stargate made me scared of his scum game), but I feel like it's a bit too early to call associative reads with Rhand. I don't agree with your point on Rhand yet.
jdisawesomesauce's post is a decent attempt at wagon analysis, and he has no vote, so. Unvote
Decent chance that jdisawesomesauce and D_V are both town. I hope there's scum in the people who voted him!
It's not that I didn't believe you about unvoting him-it's that just as a rule of thumb I'd rather not commit my vote to paper over somebody else doing so. The fact of the matter is I know that I'm town, I don't know that you are.
@jd: Your first two posts were exclusively about the idea of NLing. All because you weren't the first to mention it doesn't mean you didn't bring it up, and I think to argue otherwise is to argue semantics, not substance. No sensible reading of my statement would imply that both of you were the first to mention it considering this is all in one thread.
@Everyone: Is it just accepted that Tordeck will come in here, vote without saying anything, and be able to go off on his way? I don't know much about the way he plays-the two games I've been in with him were extremely short-but the fact I'm the only one to have brought it up seems weird to me.
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That seems like the sort of meta that might let you more or less coast for a day or two, but if you both seem confident in him I certainly won't press the issue for now. Obviously if the train on JD ends up going anywhere-or one on anyone else for that matter-it would be best to make sure he has a chance to elaborate before we move on.
@Proph: Wrt JD, why do you seem to immediately believe his claim? Furthermore, even if the no vote claim is accurate, why does that make you believe he's town?
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I believe his claim because it's going to be obvious eventually if he has a vote or not.
I think he's town because a scum member having no vote is basically making them start with one man down.
I am going to say I find the claim odd. If you don't have a vote then vote anyone why yourself to "prove your claim" when you could vote 11 other players to do the same thing.
i think it depends on the double voter. remember, its still 7 to lynch with only 11 players with votes.
non-voter and double-voter on a scum team together could be a thing. or one role that steals a vote from JD, only to return to him upon that players death (and either person could be scum or neutral in that situation). or just both be town. or theres really only 11 votes available to us.
theres all kinds of permutations for this.
certainly no reason NOT to prove it real quick when we're almost to L-1 already.
I am going to say I find the claim odd. If you don't have a vote then vote anyone why yourself to "prove your claim" when you could vote 11 other players to do the same thing.
I believe his claim because it's going to be obvious eventually if he has a vote or not.
I think he's town because a scum member having no vote is basically making them start with one man down.
I am going to say I find the claim odd. If you don't have a vote then vote anyone why yourself to "prove your claim" when you could vote 11 other players to do the same thing.
This is something I considered, I thought I would offer the wagon to see who would jump on instead of just having me vote.
That said I'm not sure if I show up in vote counts or not so we may have to run me up to L-1 anyway for me to prove it.
vote Huntzilla
votecount
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I disliked his first post as it felt like a way to fly under the radar. Hence me putting him on my scum team
OMGUS is a minor scumtell at best, it's human nature to react negatively once you find out someone doesn't like you, it's how they justify the OMGUS vote is important and his justification seems stretched to me.
He accuses me of going for the easy wagon when he is guilty of the same offence by jumping on my wagon, quite a few people had expressed suspicion of me at that point.
He also accuses Tom of coaching then immediately backpetals, it's seems like more fence sitting to me.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I believe his claim because it's going to be obvious eventually if he has a vote or not.
I think he's town because a scum member having no vote is basically making them start with one man down.
But a townie's whole purpose is to vote... it's literally their one weapon against the scum. To take that away is like making a townie mean nothing. I just don't see that as a town role. Taking the scum vote away doesn't feel as detrimental as does nerfing a townie.
But I trust your assessment on game related matters more than my own. Anyone else with decent set up gaming skills got an opinion on the matter?
I also don't like how he just called my vote an OMGUS, even though A) he never voted and B) he didn't respond to the mindset I discussed behind the vote. Makes me feel like it was accurate and he didn't know how to defend against it.
@Hunt Though I think it could be either a town or scum role, a role that switched between no votes and double voting by some sort of mechanic seems plausible to me for this setup.
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I disliked his first post as it felt like a way to fly under the radar. Hence me putting him on my scum team
OMGUS is a minor scumtell at best, it's human nature to react negatively once you find out someone doesn't like you, it's how they justify the OMGUS vote is important and his justification seems stretched to me.
He accuses me of going for the easy wagon when he is guilty of the same offence by jumping on my wagon, quite a few people had expressed suspicion of me at that point.
He also accuses Tom of coaching then immediately backpetals, it's seems like more fence sitting to me.
Playing on the petals misspelling.
Well glad you mentioned the reasoning now.
What do you mean by MORE fence sitting?
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I believe his claim because it's going to be obvious eventually if he has a vote or not.
I think he's town because a scum member having no vote is basically making them start with one man down.
But a townie's whole purpose is to vote... it's literally their one weapon against the scum. To take that away is like making a townie mean nothing. I just don't see that as a town role. Taking the scum vote away doesn't feel as detrimental as does nerfing a townie.
But I trust your assessment on game related matters more than my own. Anyone else with decent set up gaming skills got an opinion on the matter?
I also don't like how he just called my vote an OMGUS, even though A) he never voted and B) he didn't respond to the mindset I discussed behind the vote. Makes me feel like it was accurate and he didn't know how to defend against it.
See above re vote
I declared you as a scum read and you turn around and vote. That's the very nature of OMGUS.
I have explained my reasoning and mindset the gave me a scum read on you.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I declared you as a scum read and you turn around and vote. That's the very nature of OMGUS.
I have explained my reasoning and mindset the gave me a scum read on you.
So why didn't you still vote to show that you wanted to apply pressure my way? Wouldn't you want to show your fellow townies that you think I am scum by placing a vote instead of just softballing up a scum read? It makes little sense to NOT vote still, just because "it doesn't count."
I saw your first post as non committal, the coach and back pedal, *facepalm on mispelling first time*, post felt like similiar non committal behaviour hence the word more. While the first post isn't strictly fencesitting I have them lumped in the same basket.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I think you were wrong here about there being very little to analyze, though perhaps being fresh eyes (I went to bed early and this game already has nearly as many posts as the last GJ game we were in!) makes it easier to see that.
I really don't like how much the idea of NL has been brought up in the first day here, by both you and JD. I get that it's a GJ game, and I can't speak to his previous games-but last game NLing was *demonstrably* the correct play, while here we have far less information about one of the factors leading to it (namely the roles in the game) AND the other factor (the size of the game) isn't nearly as scum-favored. Here, we can almost definitely afford to give up a town player by chance (though obviously a truly random lynch is far from ideal) if it provides information; it's excessively unlikely to end the game immediately.
So far I sort of don't like JD for town, though I'll be interested in hearing what he has to say about Tom/Proph and Huntzilla to see if that changes.
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Is that your way of saying you think I'm town after that post, or are you referring to the game you were on the replace list for?
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It's been said, but this post is worrysome.
One thing holds me back from voting JD though: Atog.
The vote in itself is ok, but this next post isn't:
The warning in this post feels off. And also the "you guys" feels like he distances himself from town.
This seems pretty random. What has Huntzilla done to deserve a read either way?
Shinen is overexplaining the whole no lynch thing here. Not liking shinen too much either.
vote atog, but consider my vote on shinen as well.
Unrelated, I like both Proph's and tom's reactions to my questions.
Nope, this is my first ever game. Be gentle.
I guess, I mean, it's page one. How often do you guys see analysis that early? Granted, your claim did make me type up a big long analysis, but I was a bit self conscious of posting it. I don't know that I came to any great conclusions (we can't verify your claim, and it doesn't necessarily make me lean one way or another on you). It all came down to, are you the type of scum player that would rather look townish by saving us an accidental kill? You'd trade a possible free kill for nothing but some minor goodwill. I don't really know you, maybe somebody else could chime in and say "Oh yeah, proph likes a long con" or "He'd definitely rather take the free kill, he's town this game".
If I had to offer up analysis that is relatively unexplored, I'd point to the fact that my post (#26) was rather rambling (having contained the proph analysis before I deleted it, and it really doesn't make much sense without it). As soon as I clicked the button I'd realized that scum could 100% night kill proph tonight, it's not targeting. It doesn't really affect any town/scum percentage calculations, unless you assume we won't lynch proph (due to his "claim"). I was expecting that somebody would bring that up, in kind of a "why did you think that? Proph isn't free and clear confirmed town" post. Which I was sure I was going to have to chalk up to being new, and terrible. But instead I got JD completely agreeing with me. Which was 100% different then I would have expected. Add that together with him buddying Tom's no-lynch campaign, and I think JD is just trying too hard to agree with everyone. Feels slightly scummy, since neither stance really costs him anything.
unvote, vote JD
@JD - In general, are you more worried about being scum-read as town or caught as scum?
Proph's claim is interesting. For now I'm going to call him town.
V/LA for a day or two. I am leaving to get my eyeballs laser-beamed in a few minutes.
I guess I don't. I probably shouldn't be making assumptions either way. The only thing that made me feel the night kill wouldn't kill proph was that who would it kill? The whole scum team?
dont be afraid to post whatever youre thinking about though. if youre town, theres no reason to censor yourself
rhand has way too many scum reads.
I think I can explain why JD jumped on me... it's simple if you think about it.
JD saw that Tom posted the comment about my lurking nature, and JD thought it would be easy to mislynch the lurky guy. This could be attributed to coming back from hiatus and throwing suspicion off of himself as quickly as possible, or it could be because he's scum looking for traction.
I'm guessing scum right now if you look at the other posts he made. I believe Proph mentioned IIoA, but I feel it's a bit early to be worried about lack of analysis.
Also, Tom planting the lurker idea in JD's head could be coaching, except we're talking about Tom here, and I have no faith in his foresight to be able to pull that move off.
So...
Vote JD
I'm liking Rhand / JD for scum rn. Rhand demonstrates suspicion for his buddy to pick up dat town cred, then immediately directs attention away to 2 others.
I know proph and he's too boring to pull something like this. (This is a guy who's favorite candidate is John Kasich)
but yes, i used huntz as the example on purpose. can we let jd explain now?
not random
The Family
In addition, if you think Huntzilla is scum, why aren't you voting him?
I dislike Shinen's post - it falls into the same trap as Mindreaver's posts as being light on analysis and heavy on general information. And I offer him a similar question - if you don't like jd as town, then why are you not voting him?
--
@Rhand: What did you like about my explanation to RVS?
@Mindreaver: Welcome to the game! I hope that you'll find MTGS Mafia as fun to play as many of us do around here.
It's true that page 1 doesn't necessarily lend itself to a lot of analysis, but I was kind of expecting you to play around/joke in RVS, instead of adding to jd's optimization discussion. It set off warning lights in my head, since when I see that behavior not in RVS I scumread it.
@Hunger - how is my claim interesting?
Favorite REPUBLICAN candidate, mind you. (I actually don't really support one, just watching the political race with amusement)
Because while I'm not going to push for a quick decision to no lynch based on what I've seen in a recent game, I'm also not going to place my vote on somebody on what I described as 'sort of not liking him for town.' At least not without a consensus that we're interested in pushing him towards that direction. Hell, at least one player hadn't even *posted* at that point; I wasn't looking to push towards a lynch so much as put my opinion out and generate discussion.
As for lacking analysis, I didn't want to bring up the idea right away considering it didn't seem immediately pertinent, but my instincts towards the whole early exchange between Atog and Tom looked like distancing on Atog's part. Of course, that might just be Atog's playstyle, but he seemed unnecessarily aggressive.
@Tordeck: Care to elaborate on the 'not random' vote?
@Rhand: How was I overexplaining exactly, and what about that makes you suspicious of me?
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
I don't want to pass up relevant wagon information this early in the game.
I don't have any strong opinions on anyone either way. I am not really critically reading the thread though so I need to spend some time doing that later tomorrow, busy studying for the day.
I would not, but if it helps with the information you want, you can consider my vote on him for all purposes but a willingness to immediately lynch him. While I don't trust him as town, I don't want him lynched until we've had more discussion.
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
i wouldnt say no to a link, but i can find it if you tell me the name.
@Proph What do you think of my point against Rhand ?
Huntz one post of the game was about liking proph's role. There was no comment as to his opinion on said claim or any comment about the no lynch possibly, it was a nothing post.
I didn't bring up NL, that's a misrep, I was trying to understand if there is any advantage to no lynch over lynching.
I addressed Huntz above, Tom is a Gut feel for town and Proph I believe his claim.
I asked questions about the no lynch, I was undecided and trying to form an opinion on it. Saying I was in favor is a misrep. My opinion on proph is based on his claim and reasoning for claiming.
OMGUS Vote there.
I did a quick reread between those 2 posts, and Huntz post bothered me.
Not voting as I have no vote. Will self hammer if run up to lynch range to prove said claim.
Welp, we have four votes on a townie wagon, which isn't quite good enough for wagon analysis. I'm disappointed.
tom: My best scum game is the 2015 MTGS Mafia Invitational.
@Atog (I'll call you Atog to make you scumread me :P): I agree with your read on tom (in that his play in Stargate made me scared of his scum game), but I feel like it's a bit too early to call associative reads with Rhand. I don't agree with your point on Rhand yet.
jdisawesomesauce's post is a decent attempt at wagon analysis, and he has no vote, so. Unvote
Decent chance that jdisawesomesauce and D_V are both town. I hope there's scum in the people who voted him!
Oh wait. I think I already found one. Vote Shinen
@jd: Your first two posts were exclusively about the idea of NLing. All because you weren't the first to mention it doesn't mean you didn't bring it up, and I think to argue otherwise is to argue semantics, not substance. No sensible reading of my statement would imply that both of you were the first to mention it considering this is all in one thread.
@Everyone: Is it just accepted that Tordeck will come in here, vote without saying anything, and be able to go off on his way? I don't know much about the way he plays-the two games I've been in with him were extremely short-but the fact I'm the only one to have brought it up seems weird to me.
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
The game is less than 48 hours old, so I don't expect too much of others yet.
I'd actually like that proven, just for my own piece of mind since we're so close anyway.
vote: jd
@shinen I was not surprised by tordeck. He and Huntz both build up steam the longer they survive I believe
@Proph: Wrt JD, why do you seem to immediately believe his claim? Furthermore, even if the no vote claim is accurate, why does that make you believe he's town?
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
I think he's town because a scum member having no vote is basically making them start with one man down.
I am going to say I find the claim odd. If you don't have a vote then vote anyone why yourself to "prove your claim" when you could vote 11 other players to do the same thing.
non-voter and double-voter on a scum team together could be a thing. or one role that steals a vote from JD, only to return to him upon that players death (and either person could be scum or neutral in that situation). or just both be town. or theres really only 11 votes available to us.
theres all kinds of permutations for this.
certainly no reason NOT to prove it real quick when we're almost to L-1 already.
I think jd should just vote someone and have the mod provide a vote count.
Vote jdisawesomesauce, unvote
We technically had a five man wagon, for a split second
JD needs to (not) vote someone and explain some things.
This is something I considered, I thought I would offer the wagon to see who would jump on instead of just having me vote.
That said I'm not sure if I show up in vote counts or not so we may have to run me up to L-1 anyway for me to prove it.
vote Huntzilla
votecount
@jd: What did you see that was scummy in Huntzilla's first post? What about his OMGUS vote on you? Is it indicative of a scum mindset?
@JD im pretty sure we're gonna need a full claim from you bro.
"Survive"
Of note, I can't tell if Proph's 82 is a vote or not, so his last vote on to shinen is sticking.
Prophylaxis (1) - D_V
jdisawesomesauce (4) - Atogaholic, Mindreaver, Huntzilla, tomsloger
shinen (1) - Prophylaxis
Killjoy
Tordeck
tomsloger
Mindreaver (1) - Tordeck
Rhand
Atogholic (1) - Rhand
Hunger
D_V
Huntzilla
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Bet you feel like an ass now, huh big guy
The GJ way path to no lynching:
OMGUS is a minor scumtell at best, it's human nature to react negatively once you find out someone doesn't like you, it's how they justify the OMGUS vote is important and his justification seems stretched to me.
He accuses me of going for the easy wagon when he is guilty of the same offence by jumping on my wagon, quite a few people had expressed suspicion of me at that point.
He also accuses Tom of coaching then immediately backpetals, it's seems like more fence sitting to me.
@JD
tell us your theory as to why its 7 to lynch
i want to townread you because that explanation of why huntz is scum seems genuine to me. but theres something missing here.
But a townie's whole purpose is to vote... it's literally their one weapon against the scum. To take that away is like making a townie mean nothing. I just don't see that as a town role. Taking the scum vote away doesn't feel as detrimental as does nerfing a townie.
But I trust your assessment on game related matters more than my own. Anyone else with decent set up gaming skills got an opinion on the matter?
I also don't like how he just called my vote an OMGUS, even though A) he never voted and B) he didn't respond to the mindset I discussed behind the vote. Makes me feel like it was accurate and he didn't know how to defend against it.
@Hunt Though I think it could be either a town or scum role, a role that switched between no votes and double voting by some sort of mechanic seems plausible to me for this setup.
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
Playing on the petals misspelling.
Well glad you mentioned the reasoning now.
What do you mean by MORE fence sitting?
Unvote Vote Tom
The role fishing the weird statements like this. Yeah I don't like that
it says it takes 7 to lynch. theres 11 players that can vote. majority should be 6. do you not find it weird?
Isn't it normally 7 to lynch for a 12 man game?
I think I know what you are missing, I choose not to have a vote, if that helps.
See above re vote
I declared you as a scum read and you turn around and vote. That's the very nature of OMGUS.
I have explained my reasoning and mindset the gave me a scum read on you.
so... i think i may have just figured out whats going on. will you have a vote Tomorrow, but not sooner?
So why didn't you still vote to show that you wanted to apply pressure my way? Wouldn't you want to show your fellow townies that you think I am scum by placing a vote instead of just softballing up a scum read? It makes little sense to NOT vote still, just because "it doesn't count."