MTG Salvation

"Gumshoe, sir!"

"Yes, pal?" Gumshoe turns to the junior detective, scratching his head. "Did you find out any new pieces of evidence in the von Karma mansion?"

"We didn't find any new inroads in terms of investigating the scene," the junior detective said. "However, we've interviewed a couple of people and arrested them." The junior detective gave Gumshoe a stack of papers.

"Huh." Gumshoe pulled out a document. "Why do I have the feeling I've seen this man yesterday, and the day before.."

Iso and Gentleman Johnny have been arrested. Their vote counts have been reset.

Quote from DoTArchon »

3)He claims his ability (Trial Untargetable(post 1503)) is jury-activated, yet I was roleblocked on the night I targeted him. {This is one point I am a bit unsure of as I don't know if the mods would issue a roleblocked pm when targeting an untargetable player}

Paranoia started working overtime on my drive home.

What if scum!Iso unlocked scum!Hunt on night 1, then claimed to have targeted Wheat having known Wheat would be the NK. He claims he was also roleblocked to throw doubt on me, and then later goes along with the idea of a possible Jury blocker to sow doubt on Chris...

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

did you actually figure out what you wanted to ask me dotes/reread about me?

I needed to go reread my thoughts about you in this game and the other to straighten out how I feel about you in each. As I said in the jury chat, I'm uncertain on you, I've played with you as town and scum and I'm having difficulty reading you here.

Please vote Rhand? I am going to be super checked out in my neighbor chat if this comes down to 3 people I think are town =(

9 hours. That's plenty of time for 3 of you to vote Rhand.

Quote from Sir Chris »

Please vote Rhand? I am going to be super checked out in my neighbor chat if this comes down to 3 people I think are town =(

You just literally said that Megs is your only real scumread and now you're advocating a wagon on me without reasoning at all?
Just... Go to trial please. You or Hunt.

Yes Rhand it is almost as if I think the other people in contention for the final spot are town while I have no such read on you.

I know this is complicated for scum to get their head around.

Quote from Ghosting »

Quote from Huntzilla »

lol
Unvote
Vote Dota
Happy?

:/

Is this a serious vote? We have such a short amount of time left, your lack of cooperation certainly isn't helping any of us...

You're right. My mistake

Unvote
Vote Rhand

No one else finds it suspect that the people I am scumreading are the ones trying to kill me?

4 hours left. I don't actually know what happens if we don't have a 3rd person to send to Trial.

Quote from Ghosting »

Quote from Huntzilla »

No one else finds it suspect that the people I am scumreading are the ones trying to kill me?

Not really, because your votes on them occurred after they had made it clear you're scum, and your votes came across as OMGUS (with no explanation, just the votes). You've also just now went from a troll vote on Dota (if not a troll vote, a bad vote), to Rhand, a wagon one of your scumreads is leading. I find all of that much, much more suspect.

What happens when you are wrong about me...? Anything? Just write it off as I am at fault for it? No accountability for yourself?

What happens if I am right and the lot of you are scum? How would you defend yourself normally as scum... this is for you personally Ghosting?

Does it make sense for me to put in the work PbPAing you guys with a town consisting of Iso, Cyan, and others who don't tend to listen to me anyway?

I am sure I am wrong about one at least. But again, why waste everyone's time, including VERY much my own by writing up cases that would never even get read in totality...

Quote from Ghosting »

Quote from Huntzilla »

No one else finds it suspect that the people I am scumreading are the ones trying to kill me?

Not really, because your votes on them occurred after they had made it clear you're scum, and your votes came across as OMGUS (with no explanation, just the votes). You've also just now went from a troll vote on Dota (if not a troll vote, a bad vote), to Rhand, a wagon one of your scumreads is leading. I find all of that much, much more suspect.

By the way, how have you, or anyone else for that matter, "made it clear that (I) was scum" ???

Vote: Rhand

I'm not convinced he's scum but I'm willing to send him to trial.

I won't be posting again in the next three hours, so this is Wheat officially signing off.

Remember: Cyan is the only person I actually trust, Chris is probably town, and for god's sake lynch GJ and Iso. But especially GJ. Huntz is probably also scum.

oh, whatever

Unvote Sir Chris
Vote Rhand

YESSSSS I CAN POST AGAIN

Dear game-thread,

You suck.

1) You didn't even ensure everyone claimed their jury vote
2) You didn't talk about Jury voting toNight AT ALL
3) Not much activity all Day, but life happens so whatever

Your sadly muted friends,

Jury 3

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The tally I have, please correct if I made a mistake:

Jury Vote-Count for N2:
Anak (5): DotArchon, D_V (forced from TS?), Gentleman Johnny, Citrus, Seppel
Citrus (3): Vaimes, Hunt, Megiddo
Cyan (1): Anaklusmos
Unaccounted for (5): Rhand, Sir Chris, Ghosting, Cyan, Iso

Let us begin. Please answer the following questions in a timely fashion:

All defendants:
1) Who should we lynch toDay as of the Trial starting?
2) Why were you arrested?

Iso:
1) What am I?
2) You scum-read Sir Chris while he town-reads you. What do YOU think of this dichotomy? What do you think WE (other players) should think of this dichotomy?
3) WHO DID YOU JURY VOTE???

GJ:
1) You have been given a super-duper-unblockable-day-gun and are asked to shoot 3 players RIGHT NOW. Who do you shoot?
2) Why did you write the questions that you did for D2/N2? What were you hoping to gain from the answers beyond confirming your claim of Reporter?

Rhand:
1) Read-wall
2) What do you think of your Final day-ish-arrest, in terms of your wagon?
3) WHO DID YOU JURY VOTE???

Also re-post your role claims please and thanks

Citric.

Bruh.

I claimed that I Jury Voted Anak ages ago. Try to pay attention.

You're still scum. At this point, the most likely scum team is Citric/Chris/Seppel/??? but I don't know who the last slot is until I see Ghosting and/or Megiddo flip. This is a huge part of why I durdled around so much toDay - because two of the people I think are most likely to be scum were on Jury, and because only a few other people seemed interested in sending Chris to Trial, which is extremely frustrating, given that I have the best track record of reading him as scum so far on this site.

As for me vs. Chris, obviously I'm town and Chris is scum. I think referring to it as a "dichotomy" is disingenuous, as me being town does not necessitate that Chris is scum; however, I digress, as I've been on him since Day 2 and nothing has happened to change my view on this.

I'm Athena Cykes. I have 2 Unlock shots and 2 Lock shots. Night 1, I targeted Wheat to Unlock his double-Cop ability because I thought he permanently gained the ability after I unlocked it, but I was Roleblocked. (DoTArchon also claims to have been Roleblocked, while Chris's ability went off without a hitch. I think this is another point in favor of scumChris.) On Night 2, I targeted Cyan because I've been townreading him since early game, and he very strongly hinted that he'd appreciate being unlocked earlier in the game.

Any other questions?

Basically, the way I see it is this:

I'm on trial because Cyan can't read me any more, Wheat literally always thinks I'm scum and was confirmed town, and I'm an easy target after my Day 1 Jury performance. Given that most of the Day's posts were between Chris, Cyan, Wheat, GJ, and myself, this doesn't surprise me.

Rhand is on trial because Chris diverted attention to him because Rhand also thinks Chris is scum, and enough people said, "Huh, you know, I don't think I remember anything Rhand has really done that's been impactful all game." I think the prior sentiment is a result of Rhand having limited access for most of the game, and I have every intention of white-knighting him.

GJ is on trial because he got sent to trial on Day 1 and still hasn't died. He's a scapegoat at this point.

This means I think that my fellow defendants are also both town.

I think that in order for Day 4 to be productive in the slightest, we can't give the scum the option to pigeonhole GJ into wasting yet another defendant slot for another Day. He's, unfortunately, the best option we have right now, because it will force the town that think he's scum to reconsider the gamestate and it will make the scum have to adjust their own stances on the status of the game based on their own claimed reads of him.

Because the nature of this game is such that it's extremely difficult for the town to see a lynch result that we want, I don't think there are more than 4 scum. Even if we're wrong, the numbers say we're safe for another Day.

Just in case the scum try to speed arrest on Day 4, I think it's in our best interest to put scum on Jury toNight. This will cripple their ability to coordinate anything remotely resembling a speed wagon on two townies. (Keep in mind that because we'll be at 13 > players, that the number of people that can be defendants will drop to 2. This will also put the number of Jurors down to 2.)

In case it isn't perfectly clear, because Citric and Seppel are likely scum, this means we'll need to elect Sir Chris to Jury again toNight and lynch him the next Day.

2 people on jury means both of our arrests need to be scum if we're going to elect a scum to jury.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that Chris and Hunt weren't arrested.

Also @Iso: How can you possibly think Citric is scum after reading the jury chat?

Because it did nothing to change his awful play from earlier in the game?

1) GJ
2) As a deadline arrest

1) read wall will have to wait until I have a PC
2) I think Cyan is town. Chris is probably scum that abused Cyan's suspicion of me to get my wagon going, with another scum (Hunt) already on the wagon, it became big enough after his vote to get me pushed to deadline lynch over the both of them. Vaimes is town (and I still don't get why Chris keeps voting him) and Wheat obviously too. They just wanted to end the Day, probably assuming I wouldn't be lynched over GJ/Iso anyways (reading jury chat, I'm not so sure about that tho lol)
3) Anak

Should I claim?

As for our jurors: I think Anak and Citric are town. I'm not sold on Seppel because he wants Huntz and Chris dead and in Jury chat kept mentioning me as well. @Seppel: do you think I can be scum with Chris/Hunt?

@Rhand: Yes. Why do you think you couldn't? Also did you read the full jury chat? Because you still thinking I'm scum shouldn't be possible if you actually read it. Sane with Iso.

Also I am not voting GJ, period.

I'm not sure Seppel. If you aren't counterclaimed toMorrow then you probably are what you claimed.

About Hunt and Chris: there has been no scum flip and I've hardly had any pressure. GJ hardly mentioned me anymore and Cyan never cased me. Why would scum hunt and chris push me to trial if I was scum with them?

Seppel, do you think your role can co-exist with what Ghosting has claimed?

Actually, moreover, do you think your claimed roles can also exist with Megiddo's?

@Iso: What did Ghosting and Megiddo claim? Also yes since my role obviously exists.

Quote from Rhand »

I'm not sure Seppel. If you aren't counterclaimed toMorrow then you probably are what you claimed.

About Hunt and Chris: there has been no scum flip and I've hardly had any pressure. GJ hardly mentioned me anymore and Cyan never cased me. Why would scum hunt and chris push me to trial if I was scum with them?

They were automatically dead if either went to trial. I could see it as a distancing effort that was successful. But like I said, I'm probably wrong about 1 or 2 of my scum suspects.

Also @Iso: You're convinced Citric is town, right? You said you read the jury chat, which means you read posts 61, 65, 67, 68, and 70.

I'm surprised you don't have more to say about the jury chat as a whole.

"because two of the people I think are most likely to be scum were on Jury, and because only a few other people seemed interested in sending Chris to Trial, which is extremely frustrating, given that I have the best track record of reading him as scum so far on this site."

Obviously you're incorrect on this point since we were calling for Chris's head in the Jury chat. You didn't realise you were in a thread rife with scum?

Also if you're really town you should be convincing me to vote Rhand.

Yeah, I definitely have questions for you / things you should be commenting on in the Jury chat.

Quote from Citric »

1) Who should we lynch toDay as of the Trial starting?
2) Why were you arrested?

1. Rhand. Really haven't lost my read on him, and only SC's defense of him has made me put him on the back burner. Him flipping scum makes me more likely go get Cyan to trial.

2. Because people hate what they can't love. And more seriously, that same cluster of Cyan/Rhand/Ghosting/Vaimes just can't seem to develop a read or anything new on me. They aren't even willing to case me, making me rather apathetic towards the game in general. Confirmed town Wheat Grinder leading the charge did nothing to stop that, and I can almost guarantee I do not get arrested if he didn't show up, as I doubt his slot/Dota move me to trial.

1) You have been given a super-duper-unblockable-day-gun and are asked to shoot 3 players RIGHT NOW. Who do you shoot?
2) Why did you write the questions that you did for D2/N2? What were you hoping to gain from the answers beyond confirming your claim of Reporter?

1. Rhand > Cyan > Ghosting (I may not have liked Seppel, but I have been dying for an excuse to lynch "town confirmed" scummy Ghost.

2. The reasons I asked those questions were to see if I could trap megs. He is still a question mark for now, and mato flipping town obviously screwed the pooch on question one, but I would prefer if the motive remains private.

Quote from Seppel »

2286: GJ is saying that someone claimed a protective role. Does anyone remember who that was and what the claim was?

Ghosting claimed body guarding the whole jury, if he is on jury.

Whoops:

Quote from Seppel »

Gentleman Johnny - I won't be lynching him until there's literally no other scumreads left alive and the game is still going on. Having met him in real life makes it a lot easier to process his posts.

What does that mean? My real life persona is nothing compared to my mafia persona.

@Seppel What exactly was your claim again?

@Iso It seems weird to think your defendents are town and then state killing one is the best option when we are as close to losing as we appear. Why is lynching GJ better than no lynching in your eyes?

@GJ Does the fact that no matter how many town have died you keep getting arrested tell you anything about the players on your wagon?

I don't think either of the townies that died didn't deserve it. I think it is much more telling that Cyan was willing to push WG to claim range, despite Wheat being one of the biggest pushers for me day 1, and it bothered me greatly that he just pretty much handwaved it away.

The thing is, I would have been on the Necarg wagon day 1 if I could have voted, so I don't really know how much stock to put in, and the argument could be made from some non-me entity that me/mato/necarg being scum would have been possible. Me and WG being scum: not so much, but the majority of the people who pushed him were not for me (except for Cyan).

I think the people staying on my wagon are the most static. To be fair, day 2 I can't really fault any townies, due to my ability not going off. Day 3 is just bleh.

@Seppel: Ghosting claimed Bodyguard (and that he Bodyguards the whole Jury when he's on Jury) and Megs claimed some kind of weird Backup thing.

No, I think Citric is scum, which I literally said not even a whole page ago.

"Obviously you're incorrect on this point since we were calling for Chris's head in the Jury chat." Uh, I was referring to the people who actually had votes toDay, because obviously the Jury can't send anybody to trial. I thought what I meant there was obvious.

Additionally, I've already said why I don't want Rhand lynched. Why haven't you read what I've posted?

-

@Anak: Wait, we can cause nobody to get lynched toDay? I thought a random lynchee was chosen by the mod if we missed the deadline. If we can No Lynch, then obviously that's the ideal choice - I just thought I recalled that not being an option from Day 1's trial, which is why Chris and I were literally down to the last minute trying to get the other to budge on our votes.

2 day Trial is NOT conducive to MTGS's mafia-style

Quote from Rhand »

1) GJ
2) As a deadline arrest

1) read wall will have to wait until I have a PC
2) I think Cyan is town. Chris is probably scum that abused Cyan's suspicion of me to get my wagon going, with another scum (Hunt) already on the wagon, it became big enough after his vote to get me pushed to deadline lynch over the both of them. Vaimes is town (and I still don't get why Chris keeps voting him) and Wheat obviously too. They just wanted to end the Day, probably assuming I wouldn't be lynched over GJ/Iso anyways (reading jury chat, I'm not so sure about that tho lol)
3) Anak

Should I claim?

Is this PC access/readwall happening before the Trial is over? Because your answer strongly implies so, and yet we're already halfway through the Trial

Quote from Iso »

Basically, the way I see it is this:

Rhand is on trial because Chris diverted attention to him because Rhand also thinks Chris is scum, and enough people said, "Huh, you know, I don't think I remember anything Rhand has really done that's been impactful all game." I think the prior sentiment is a result of Rhand having limited access for most of the game, and I have every intention of white-knighting him.

So your town-read on Rhand is whole-ly dependent on Chris being scum? And then what's the thought process for that? Chris did it to avoid him getting put on the bench + Cyan's push? Like that's really how I feel about Rhand as well. He threw a readwall once when I asked him some-odd pages ago, which felt pretty good, and then disappeared back into the abyss again until getting pressured into arrest. Do you have any other basis for why Rhand is town? Anything Rhand's done specifically, as opposed to things he hasn't/things others have done around him? Because town-reading him to the degree you're suddenly spouse-ing is...a lot

Also clarification: so you currently believe the best call is to no lynch right now? What would you do if you were sole Juror (Judge) right now with only 2 Defendants of Rhand and GJ?

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

I don't think either of the townies that died didn't deserve it. I think it is much more telling that Cyan was willing to push WG to claim range, despite Wheat being one of the biggest pushers for me day 1, and it bothered me greatly that he just pretty much handwaved it away.

The thing is, I would have been on the Necarg wagon day 1 if I could have voted, so I don't really know how much stock to put in, and the argument could be made from some non-me entity that me/mato/necarg being scum would have been possible. Me and WG being scum: not so much, but the majority of the people who pushed him were not for me (except for Cyan).

I think the people staying on my wagon are the most static. To be fair, day 2 I can't really fault any townies, due to my ability not going off. Day 3 is just bleh.

Following-up on Anak's question:

Can you analyze the individual players on your wagons? In general, do you think it's more scum-driving that's been throwing you in here over and over or town-driving or both? I understand D2 as well, go into more detail on "bleh"

@Gentleman_Johnny
Jury chat /m82-/m85 ish has all (I think) of the Votals form D2/D3 with wagons

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

Whoops:

Quote from Seppel »

Gentleman Johnny - I won't be lynching him until there's literally no other scumreads left alive and the game is still going on. Having met him in real life makes it a lot easier to process his posts.

What does that mean? My real life persona is nothing compared to my mafia persona.

Keep reading. I answer this.

Quote from Anaklusmos »

@Seppel What exactly was your claim again?

Hahaha. Are you serious?

Quote from from="Iso »" »

Additionally, I've already said why I don't want Rhand lynched. Why haven't you read what I've posted?

Maybe you didn't say it loud enough.

All right. Iso isn't changing his mind in the face of evidence to the contrary. Like, not even a little bit. Somehow he still believes Citric is scum. Somehow he still believes Rhand is town. He's pushing for a no-lynch. He has failed completely to acknowledge that the game thread was flooded with scum, which is why the votes to arrest were so lackluster. He isn't putting in enough effort to respond to the jury chat.

Iso is scum.

Vote Iso