This discussion will yield nothing as I was the one that paraphrased, and used that methodology. The actual message does not use the toDay vs today distinction.
Just realised that the prize I got from Hunt's mini-game is Umineko-flavoured. (Something that could be attributed to the Beatrice.)
Tom, is yours too?
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just realised that the prize I got from Hunt's mini-game is Umineko-flavoured. (Something that could be attributed to the Beatrice.)
Tom, is yours too?
i dont know anything about umineko, but all i have is an ability name. no separate flavor.
looking at the wiki, it seems to fit in though.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
even though bur and citric claiming is strictly -EV, i can see you wanting them to anyway if you think i am scum.
because if you were right, mafia would already know their roles. so it becomes nothing but a good thing.
but its up to the two of them if they want to out themselves. neither would be lynched for refusing to claim.
I'd like bur to claim his role-name, if he hasn't already. I might agree with you Tom, based on that.
I need Hookerpunch to go over all his claim details again, I read all his posts, but didn't find any specifics that enlightened me.
Looking forward to KJ's claim as well.
I may or may not have finally taken a hard look at my notes plus the existing player list, and I think I've got a pretty good handle on what's necessary for the town to survive the day, but I'm still trying to decide what I ought to do about it.
I'm thinking I'm not going to (attempt to) hand over any mafia directly. Town as a group hasn't put in much effort at analysis, and I probably ought to make clear that there's a consequence for DV's antics last night, in case anyone else is thinking of doing the same thing, and that I can't be expected to fully assist the town if they won't even give me the bare minimum of assistance I need to achieve my own town-compatible win con. I'll probably lose for doing that, but I feel it'd kind of explode the game for me to just turn over members of the scum team on a silver platter, and I don't want to ruin Tar's game on him. The flip side of that is that it's completely possible I'd be leading the town directly into a mislynch if I relied too heavily on setup info that may have been altered. Although I've only noticed one or two changes so far, it'd be a crappy way for either team to win or lose the game. It really should be a matter of analysis vs. deception, of skill, not all this constant mod-gaming.
I'll still offer behavior analysis on the target of your choice, and I'll still make a deal with anyone who's interested.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't believe your claims. The way you played your role is weird, and ghosting's claim is a bit much. He has Blue Pill but bringing ISO in doesn't make sense since I recall someone voting ISO d1.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't believe your claims. The way you played your role is weird, and ghosting's claim is a bit much. He has Blue Pill but bringing ISO in doesn't make sense since I recall someone voting ISO d1.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
He was the one that voted Iso D1 as I recall as well.
I still don't like lynching Hunt, mechanics aside that I just don't see being scum, his use of the subgame ability was poor. But it wasn't scummy, it was a strange ability that didn't have a clear use. Hindsight with group feedback especially is 20-20, and its really easy for us to critique now.
I would rather look at Bur, his inconsistency with Iso and Blue Pill is strange and something I would like to push further.
I don't believe your claims. The way you played your role is weird, and ghosting's claim is a bit much. He has Blue Pill but bringing ISO in doesn't make sense since I recall someone voting ISO d1.
Wait how can you dare say you don't believe my claim when everything has been proven in the thread! Well, aside from TiPs...
Specifically I don't believe that you can read the scum chat. IDK why you wouldn't have used that twice in fairly rapic succession, like I'd said. Obviously the subgame is a thing, but your posting in red ability got you a daykill instead of say, a cop shot. You claimed you could get pretty much anything with that, right?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Specifically I don't believe that you can read the scum chat. IDK why you wouldn't have used that twice in fairly rapic succession, like I'd said. Obviously the subgame is a thing, but your posting in red ability got you a daykill instead of say, a cop shot. You claimed you could get pretty much anything with that, right?
I actually do believe he can read the opposing scum chat.
I would guess that there are two (possibly 3) people who can screw up the scum's embarassingly easy victory when the town inevitably mislynches and/or misvigs today without even attempting serious behavioral analysis. I may or may not know who they are. However, most of those people may or may not know what needs to be done to keep the town going. The exception is me. I don't think you should vig any of those four people without doing analysis, DV, but if you really want to YOLO it up, go ahead and kill me to seal the loss.
And for the record, I'm not saying Bur is town-cleared because of his abilities. But if he's town, and he explains what he can do, his effectiveness might become significantly more limited. If his effectiveness becomes limited at lylo, you guys have even less of a chance to turn this fiasco around.
*thinks*
I guess I do have one question for you, Tom. Did your loss of control over your vote coincide closely with Bur finding out what you could do? There are only a few categories of abilities that could result in what we've seen happen to you, and in my past experience, only 1 or 2 of those abilities tend to show up in any given game. I really doubt the town wants to go down that particular road today no matter what you answer, but there's a chance it could be quite relevant.
Tom, is yours too?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
looking at the wiki, it seems to fit in though.
is the actual answer "the deadline"?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's not how this is working at all.
what about the part where I don't trust you?
to be honest im still not sure why were doing this massclaim. i feel like i have a worse handle on the game than when we started.
Yeah cause you're scum.
if i was scum, my team would already know so town should too.
well, its up to them i guess. i wash my hands of it.
IS this even English?
even though bur and citric claiming is strictly -EV, i can see you wanting them to anyway if you think i am scum.
because if you were right, mafia would already know their roles. so it becomes nothing but a good thing.
but its up to the two of them if they want to out themselves. neither would be lynched for refusing to claim.
hope thats more clear.
I need Hookerpunch to go over all his claim details again, I read all his posts, but didn't find any specifics that enlightened me.
Looking forward to KJ's claim as well.
I may or may not have finally taken a hard look at my notes plus the existing player list, and I think I've got a pretty good handle on what's necessary for the town to survive the day, but I'm still trying to decide what I ought to do about it.
I'm thinking I'm not going to (attempt to) hand over any mafia directly. Town as a group hasn't put in much effort at analysis, and I probably ought to make clear that there's a consequence for DV's antics last night, in case anyone else is thinking of doing the same thing, and that I can't be expected to fully assist the town if they won't even give me the bare minimum of assistance I need to achieve my own town-compatible win con. I'll probably lose for doing that, but I feel it'd kind of explode the game for me to just turn over members of the scum team on a silver platter, and I don't want to ruin Tar's game on him. The flip side of that is that it's completely possible I'd be leading the town directly into a mislynch if I relied too heavily on setup info that may have been altered. Although I've only noticed one or two changes so far, it'd be a crappy way for either team to win or lose the game. It really should be a matter of analysis vs. deception, of skill, not all this constant mod-gaming.
I'll still offer behavior analysis on the target of your choice, and I'll still make a deal with anyone who's interested.
Now, go do some PBPAs and make me proud.
also HP is dead.
Nope, I'm good.
My keen sense of behavioral analysis tells me bur probably doesn't need to claim.
@Tom - Ok! That makes a whole lot more sense now.
....
Who are we lynching then?
lets go
zzzz
I have this feeling I'm being played by
Tom, Azreal, Bur scum team.
I already said that... lol
but come on. bur? no way bro.
So let's lynch tom!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This game hurts my head now.
Yolo mode?
Vote Tom
theres even a chance ill still be alive for it
I still think hunt is scum, I currently don't trust ghost because he apparently has 4 abilities.
I'll claim all the things when not on my phone.
So you are scumreading people because of the number of abilities they have?
Oh yeah that was me.
I yeah... I forgot about that.
Unvote
I still don't like lynching Hunt, mechanics aside that I just don't see being scum, his use of the subgame ability was poor. But it wasn't scummy, it was a strange ability that didn't have a clear use. Hindsight with group feedback especially is 20-20, and its really easy for us to critique now.
I would rather look at Bur, his inconsistency with Iso and Blue Pill is strange and something I would like to push further.
Wait how can you dare say you don't believe my claim when everything has been proven in the thread! Well, aside from TiPs...
I actually do believe he can read the opposing scum chat.
I now think he was on the opposing scum team.
Balls yeah my bad Bur, read your posts above and just switched your names!
Maybe even four.
me or AZ is the way to go.
And for the record, I'm not saying Bur is town-cleared because of his abilities. But if he's town, and he explains what he can do, his effectiveness might become significantly more limited. If his effectiveness becomes limited at lylo, you guys have even less of a chance to turn this fiasco around.
*thinks*
I guess I do have one question for you, Tom. Did your loss of control over your vote coincide closely with Bur finding out what you could do? There are only a few categories of abilities that could result in what we've seen happen to you, and in my past experience, only 1 or 2 of those abilities tend to show up in any given game. I really doubt the town wants to go down that particular road today no matter what you answer, but there's a chance it could be quite relevant.