No answer from Tare, but I suspect it isn't a big issue, so I am gonna go ahead and talk about it regardless. I highly doubt I am not supposed to so... yeah...
Claim Facts
I had (yes past tense, I will get to that) an ability that allowed me to receive a copy of the last posted message in the scum chat QT. I had two shots of this ability. I used one back on February 15th, basically right away, hoping to catch some kind of name slip, claim of a role, or plan for the day for the scum team. In the role it states that the Mafia were aware of this ability existing, just not who had it. The ability resolved between post 120 and 121 in the thread. What I received back will need to be paraphrased, that way I don't break any perceived rules... but basically it read like this:
"Town is killing itself and wandering aimlessly, all of us can get away with super-lurking the rest of toDay"
So, I stuck to watching the lurkers like a hawk, hence the lean scum read of Leuko which ultimately proved to be on point as well as the lean scum on Hawk (eventually) which also proved to be good.
I no longer have a second shot, and I did not use it. That's all I will say until I get more of an answer. So this ability is gone.
Claim Speclation
Reading into things a little, I feel I had an inside look into Mafia 2's qt with the ability. The phrasing ALL OF US makes me think that there was a third member of the team that has now been absorbed into Mafia 1's team.
I can see Hawk and Leuko on the Mafia 2, with Imab being on Mafia 1; obviously Imab was NOT lurking hardcore.
Robroy actually gains a lot of credence to me with these revelations, because of his ample defense of Businessman. If he is mafia 1, then he would defend businessman because in his mind it is a town v. town fight and because of this equates to him gaining townie points with a strong player.
In other news,
Welcome Ecophagy!
Vote DoTArchon
DV Seems to know that Imab is Mafia 1 in this post. I think that is extremely suspect. He could argue "phrasing" but it doesn't read that way to me.
There is clearly other choices to confirm, went deal with me when I am self resolving?
well i still kinda think youre scum. so theres that.
Tom, trust me. GJ will resolve himself. There is no reason NOT to let him have a chance to let the Mason stuff clear him. I won't tell you to stop following your gut on him, but if you want my opinion; I believe him.
RobRoy being the first to bring up consolidation of the teams is suspect as well. I am still reading him townie overall, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this but keep one eye watching him.
Huh, I didn't even think of the fact that mafia teams could have been consolidated. That makes a lot of sense actually.
I'm basically going to just keep up with the game from here on, because I'm pretty busy and reading #1200 posts is a massive slog that I just don't have time for
This also tingled my scumdar as well. It felt as though he was playing dumb about something he already knew. You could argue the whole "why would he post it then?" argument, but hey, WIFOM is a thing.
ive heard a lot of decentish reasons not to reveal gj today. what i havent heard is a good suggestion for who i should vote instead.
I am actually thinking Citric at this stage. He replaced in for the best Lurker EVER (RIP Darth Melvin) who could have been scum three in Mafia 2. Actually the better chance is Ecophagy, simply because I think Jobie had a HIGH probability of being scum three in Mafia 2 as well.
No answer from Tare, but I suspect it isn't a big issue, so I am gonna go ahead and talk about it regardless. I highly doubt I am not supposed to so... yeah...
Claim Facts
I had (yes past tense, I will get to that) an ability that allowed me to receive a copy of the last posted message in the scum chat QT. I had two shots of this ability. I used one back on February 15th, basically right away, hoping to catch some kind of name slip, claim of a role, or plan for the day for the scum team. In the role it states that the Mafia were aware of this ability existing, just not who had it. The ability resolved between post 120 and 121 in the thread. What I received back will need to be paraphrased, that way I don't break any perceived rules... but basically it read like this:
"Town is killing itself and wandering aimlessly, all of us can get away with super-lurking the rest of toDay"
So, I stuck to watching the lurkers like a hawk, hence the lean scum read of Leuko which ultimately proved to be on point as well as the lean scum on Hawk (eventually) which also proved to be good.
I no longer have a second shot, and I did not use it. That's all I will say until I get more of an answer. So this ability is gone.
Claim Speclation
Reading into things a little, I feel I had an inside look into Mafia 2's qt with the ability. The phrasing ALL OF US makes me think that there was a third member of the team that has now been absorbed into Mafia 1's team.
I can see Hawk and Leuko on the Mafia 2, with Imab being on Mafia 1; obviously Imab was NOT lurking hardcore.
Robroy actually gains a lot of credence to me with these revelations, because of his ample defense of Businessman. If he is mafia 1, then he would defend businessman because in his mind it is a town v. town fight and because of this equates to him gaining townie points with a strong player.
In other news,
Welcome Ecophagy!
Vote DoTArchon
DV Seems to know that Imab is Mafia 1 in this post. I think that is extremely suspect. He could argue "phrasing" but it doesn't read that way to me.
There is clearly other choices to confirm, went deal with me when I am self resolving?
well i still kinda think youre scum. so theres that.
Tom, trust me. GJ will resolve himself. There is no reason NOT to let him have a chance to let the Mason stuff clear him. I won't tell you to stop following your gut on him, but if you want my opinion; I believe him.
RobRoy being the first to bring up consolidation of the teams is suspect as well. I am still reading him townie overall, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this but keep one eye watching him.
Huh, I didn't even think of the fact that mafia teams could have been consolidated. That makes a lot of sense actually.
I'm basically going to just keep up with the game from here on, because I'm pretty busy and reading #1200 posts is a massive slog that I just don't have time for
This also tingled my scumdar as well. It felt as though he was playing dumb about something he already knew. You could argue the whole "why would he post it then?" argument, but hey, WIFOM is a thing.
ive heard a lot of decentish reasons not to reveal gj today. what i havent heard is a good suggestion for who i should vote instead.
I am actually thinking Citric at this stage. He replaced in for the best Lurker EVER (RIP Darth Melvin) who could have been scum three in Mafia 2. Actually the better chance is Ecophagy, simply because I think Jobie had a HIGH probability of being scum three in Mafia 2 as well.
On the other side of the coin, this has made me feel worse about Ghosting, and to a lesser degree DoTArchon. imab was attacked several times by Ghosting, but never counterattacked, as he did on Nacho, D_V, Bur, and Anak. If (and this is still unprovable) the mod consolidated the scum groups, that could indicate that Ghosting and imab were co-scum, trying to distance without getting either one of them lynched in the process. Again, if this were a single-mafia game, I'd move Ghosting to "likely scum", but instead he just goes down a few ticks. By the same logic, imab's constant mentioning of DoTArchon as scummy, while literally never providing a reason other than DoTA's initial vote of TappingStones, could likewise be distancing.
It might be useful if you reread my interactions with Iamab; you'll see that I asked him a few questions in various posts, responded to his questions, and noted my appreciation for his responses that, at the time, made me feel much better about him. Now I know I should've stuck to my gut, but that's in the past, and everyone pretty much disagreed with me that he was scummy.
Robroy actually gains a lot of credence to me with these revelations, because of his ample defense of Businessman. If he is mafia 1, then he would defend businessman because in his mind it is a town v. town fight and because of this equates to him gaining townie points with a strong player.
I don't like how this is worded. It sounds like you're trying to convince the town of Rob's newfound credence, while assuming the route of action he would take. Do you not think there are situations in which Rob could be scum and behaved the way he did? Why or why not?
"Town is killing itself and wandering aimlessly, all of us can get away with super-lurking the rest of toDay"
I think we need to be paying a good amount of attention to this. Hunt, when did you get this message, so we can know where to look for the supposed aimless wandering. We should be able to get a good idea of what they mean by the town killing themselves, and narrow our scumspects a bit better.
I disagree with the notion that the mafias were combined. It is my assumption that they were all mafia 2 and that there is simply another faction known as mafia one. Would have been great if we had seen their tags such as friend computer for hawk, I think this would have been easier to figure out if they were from the same mafia or not.
DV Seems to know that Imab is Mafia 1 in this post. I think that is extremely suspect. He could argue "phrasing" but it doesn't read that way to me.
I was arguing that rob roy could be part of mafia one not Businessman.
Quote from Ghosting »
I don't like how this is worded. It sounds like you're trying to convince the town of Rob's newfound credence, while assuming the route of action he would take. Do you not think there are situations in which Rob could be scum and behaved the way he did? Why or why not?
It is ***** wording, I eventually reworded it in post 1216.
To answer your question I do believe that if he was part of Mafia one and didn't know there was a mafia two, then he would have written off the argument as town v. town and simply supported one person at random, or who ever he viewed to be the stronger townie.
"Town is killing itself and wandering aimlessly, all of us can get away with super-lurking the rest of toDay"
I think we need to be paying a good amount of attention to this. Hunt, when did you get this message, so we can know where to look for the supposed aimless wandering. We should be able to get a good idea of what they mean by the town killing themselves, and narrow our scumspects a bit better.
It's in the post.
Without looking I believe it was between 120 and 121...
Tar uses dark red and red tags to distinguish between different mafia factions (notice how hawk flipped dark read mafia and not mafia 1 or mafia 2 and we got his full flip), meaning that we got a full faction flip but not role names or roles.
And, since you won't believe me:
Did you change the faction of any mod killed players?
Did we receive full faction flips from all modkilled players?
I forgot I wasn't waiting in this game anymore, will be around tomorrow.
What's puzzling me is that both Imab and Leuko are specifically listed as modkilled in the the OP, but Hawk was "deleted" and listed in the dead column.
@Hunt - So does your ability mean that mafia have daychat? I'm really confused as to how your ability would resolve with two different mafias though.
I'll go back a check, but I feel like the biggest thing happening that early in the game was everyone taking sides on Tom vs. TS. If that timeframe matches up, I'd argue that's pretty strong evidence that Tom is town but I guess it's flawed in the sense that Tom could still be on the side of whichever mafia that didn't post that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
What's puzzling me is that both Imab and Leuko are specifically listed as modkilled in the the OP, but Hawk was "deleted" and listed in the dead column.
@Hunt - So does your ability mean that mafia have daychat? I'm really confused as to how your ability would resolve with two different mafias though.
I'll go back a check, but I feel like the biggest thing happening that early in the game was everyone taking sides on Tom vs. TS. If that timeframe matches up, I'd argue that's pretty strong evidence that Tom is town but I guess it's flawed in the sense that Tom could still be on the side of whichever mafia that didn't post that.
The ability implies that they have day chat. Yup.
I tried to rationalize the two Mafia part of it in my post the best I could surmise. No idea how it actually works in multiple mafias because it doesn't state anything to do with multiple mafias...
I can actually see them all being together as one team I suppose.
I think what happened is likely, the set-up is 3 and 3, 1 mafia team lost 2 members, so Tare just decided to combine the teams.
Just a guess.
Feeling infinitely better about Eco's spot.
@Eco: Confirming as town (or scum) either sets us up with a great day 2, clears a player that (I mean this with no disrespect) is unlikely to draw a night kill.
Indeed. Assuming Azrael is on board with it, it would need to be an item that reveals your affiliation - not one that makes you look innocent.
I am actaully all for that, but not this early. The later we can have that ability work, the better. Having a confirmed town (or confirmed scum) close to lylo would obviously be very beneficial.
Wow. Three dead, all scum, and all Mafia 2? Iiiinteresting.
Multiple mafias, unfortunately, really does screw up our reads based on the bodies. There's no way to know whether Hawk, imab, and leuko were all in Mafia 2 before the modkills, or whether they were split between the mafias, and the mod consolidated the remaining scum into Mafia 1 afterwards. This puts us nearly back to square one as far as interaction reads.
Given the wording, I don't think there was consolidation. It specifically says "All members of Mafia 2 are dead" which makes me think they were part of Mafia 2 all the time.
I do agree that it messes up our reads, since I'm not sure Mafia 1 and Mafia 2 knew who each other were. They could have been two completely seperate entities. Hopefully this is not the case, because then interactions can tell us things.
Well, if he were a full claimed mason, we'd know for sure that there is someone else out there who can vouch for him in the future. The way he's been describing things so far, it sounds like his counterpart may never actually enter the thread.
That said, I think I'd still prefer to leave GJ until tomorrow. Given the claim, I'd like to give at least one night/day cycle for the other player to hopefully enter the game. If she still isn't here tomorrow, I'll be taking a long, hard look at Randy.
As for who I do dislike at this time... Necarg is still up there. Waiting to hear what Huntzilla has to claim, but he's on my radar. And I'd like to reread hansanator at some point, as the only re-awakened lurker with continuity, but won't have time to do that soon.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say GJ likely doesn't claim what he did so early if he cannot back it up to some extent. It's worth giving him a Day or two to prove it. And we should not reveal him, because I believe he is what he says he is.
Also who is Randy?
ok, you already know im not a fan of claims just making someone untouchable.
but this is mindscrew. i could see an actual mason being scum. even if HP was here to say you were confirmed town, that doesnt make it 100% in my mind.
revealing you now either catches you or makes you actually untouchable. its win-win (or eventually reveals that nacho is false, i suppose)
at this point, i think my second choice for reveal might be myself. i dont remember who said it (might have been you) but making the scum choose between NKing me or letting me run around confirmed seems awesome.
my role PM has a lot of words that vaguely do stuff, but its certainly not worth a NK.
Dude you're the last person I would want to reveal. You're my top town read. I believe you're most people's top town read. Behaviorally you're very town. There are for sure better targets.
I would say at this stage, clear a lurker. Necarg or Hunt.
I really want to see what happens into day 3 (2???), and if my comrade comes in.
I'm actually making an about face on my "lets not reveal a lurker" position, and would like to reveal Eco, actually. Jobie was technically lurky, but that's not actually the reason I want to do it.
Eco is a great analyst. He is also very good at convincing others of things. He is ALSO very very good at looking town as scum. If he's town, the mafia already know and he likely is going to be a target of theirs soon. Confirming him will curb paranoia and will hopefully give me another stong player town read along with Rob.
I had (yes past tense, I will get to that) an ability that allowed me to receive a copy of the last posted message in the scum chat QT. I had two shots of this ability. I used one back on February 15th, basically right away, hoping to catch some kind of name slip, claim of a role, or plan for the day for the scum team. In the role it states that the Mafia were aware of this ability existing, just not who had it. The ability resolved between post 120 and 121 in the thread. What I received back will need to be paraphrased, that way I don't break any perceived rules... but basically it read like this:
"Town is killing itself and wandering aimlessly, all of us can get away with super-lurking the rest of toDay"
So, I stuck to watching the lurkers like a hawk, hence the lean scum read of Leuko which ultimately proved to be on point as well as the lean scum on Hawk (eventually) which also proved to be good.
I no longer have a second shot, and I did not use it. That's all I will say until I get more of an answer. So this ability is gone.
Yeah, I don't like Spy claims from people I'm not townreading. That said, the quote is likely accurate since either you're town and can see that, or are scum and can see that.
I also need to go back and check the accuracy of you saying that you watched the lurkers after that. I need to see how you approached this before I make a decision in this matter.
@Hunt - So does your ability mean that mafia have daychat? I'm really confused as to how your ability would resolve with two different mafias though.
Both of these are actually realyl good points. Either Hunt is making this up (but like I said earlier, I doubt it) or the scum have daychat. Also, I'm thinking of two posibilities for the second thing: either he randomly sees one of the mafia chats at the time he uses it (as town) or he sees the OTHER mafia chat at the time he uses it. This would help find the other scum in the game.
I can actually see them all being together as one team I suppose.
Again, the wording implies two teams. Numbering them in effect seperates them. I feel like factions might also imply seperate win conditions, which makes a mafia supergroup makes less sense to me.
Only game I recall having two mafia factions was Cyberpunk, and IIRC they had seperate wincons, and didn't know who each other were.
I think what happened is likely, the set-up is 3 and 3, 1 mafia team lost 2 members, so Tare just decided to combine the teams.
Just a guess.
Feeling infinitely better about Eco's spot.
@Eco: Confirming as town (or scum) either sets us up with a great day 2, clears a player that (I mean this with no disrespect) is unlikely to draw a night kill.
What makes you like Eco?
-------------------------
I'll do Nacho things tomorrow, and also hopefully read Anak. Nacho comes first though. Oh, also need to look at Hunt's claim.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm still not going to just dump my limited scum reads because they are almost entirely unsubstantiated. As I get the time to look at them and come to an evidence-based conclusion, I'll post them. Like this.
I feel that Anaklusmos has displayed very little intention to hunt scum, and has spent most of the game sitting very squarely on the fence and pretending to look productive without actually attempting to find the bad guys.
Out of his 26 posts, Anak has mentioned how large and complex the game is in 7 of them (about a quarter). This gives him something to talk about that isn't scumhunting, as well as providing an excuse for not having any good reads. #157 makes this very explicit. (Also notice the "larger post" he promises never materialises).
Anak has also been incredibly reluctant to have a clear opinion, and remains solidly rooted on the fence on multiple players. Examples:
At the very start of the game he calls Hans' claim a town move, but is also very insistent on making sure everyone knows that doesn't mean Anak things Hans is town, just that he did a town thing.
#196 sees Anak unable to come to a conclusion on Nacho's claim, as well as getting exactly nowhere on TS vs Tom.
#481 has Anak admitting there are some good points against Nacho, but no actually analysis of these points, or moving toward any conclusion from them.
Eventually, Anak has an actual opinion and votes IMAB in #628. This vote, however, stinks: the reason behind it is that IMAB put DV on ignore. Not only is this is not actually a scum tell (just poor play ), but the vote also doesn't actually take into account anything about DV's case that IMAB was allegedly trying to dodge, the strength of which would be directly relevant to how good a vote for ignoring it would be. Furthermore, Anak doesn't look for any tells other than the current hot topic of conversation strongly - for example IMAB throwing his vote at anything that moved - suggest Anak's vote was an opportunistic bandwagon, and not a genuine attempt to find scum. This is further demonstrated in #724, where Anak makes nebulous mention of "the case" without actually elaborating or presenting one himself.
The weakness of Anak's attack on IAMB is fully exposed in #846. He finally presents some actual points against IMAB, but the case is shoddy, and boils down to "you are being belligerent and not reading the thread" which is not really a scum tell. Despite this, Anak went to the effort of actually making points, and "Liking [his] vote right where it is", and yet in the very next line he says "IAMB ... has had enough non-answers for me to lean scum on him". How exactly is Anak only leaning scum on someone moments before he was very happy to still be voting?
In #995, Anak questions IMAB on why IMAB called the recently claimed not-town TappingStones confirmed town. Anak has literally caught IMAB in a lie here, and yet is displayed such little enthusiasm that I can't believe that Anak is actually invested in trying to get IMAB lynched.
Finally, #1063 comes to the completely illogical conclusion that IMAB defending a confirmed neutral is somehow scummy, which is partially corrected in #1706 where Anak bascially just shrugs his shoulders and says IMAB might be scum anyway.
For bonus scum points, Anak fishes for role information in #341 and #995.
In conclusion, Anak's game has been characterised by a huge amount of fence-sitting, unproductive musings on how gosh darn complicated this game is, and although he has asked a lot of questions, they have been inviting opinions while avoiding providing any of this own, and have never been followed up on. When Anak did eventually produce an actual read (out of a total of one), his vote is based on current hot-topic discussion, and never goes beyond that, even when catching IMAB in a lie. This lack of drive to lynch a suspect combines with Anak's own inconsistent language (being happy voting someone he consider only leaning scum), along with a total lack of scumhunting beyond his single vote clearly displays a complete disinterest in actually finding and lynching scum. This is, quite clearly, the mindset of scum looking to keep their head down and not commit to anything.
The only problem I have is that I don't actually know how to vote Anak. I am going to assume the player list loops round from the bottom back to the top and Vote tomsloger
Vote Count Please Mod
Have you read games that I have been in in the past? This is how I tend to play, I have trouble committing to reads and wagons. Especially considering with this game, and how mired down it got, I never really have been able to get a handle on it, which has lead to this be exacerbated.
The vote on IMAB for putting DV on ignore was also to see how he would react to that, though I do disagree with you that its not scummy. It is, but not a giant scum tell, but IMAB didn't respond in the way of attempting to dismiss the vote. Instead he went full-OMGUS on the bit and voted me back, which is something I think scum would do in that situation.
"How exactly is Anak only leaning scum on someone moments before he was very happy to still be voting?"
You are nitpicking at wording here, he was a leaning scum read that was going the wrong direction, and the best read I had at the time. At this point, he wasn't confirmed scum or anything, but he wasn't reacting well or doing anything to help himself. Hence, someone I am happy to be voting, but he was leaning scum.
I am bad at pushing wagons, when I caught him in that lie I wasn't even sure how to go about getting him actually lynched with that information. Look at the way he had been responding to others, one on one he was essentially just ignoring what people said and told them they were wrong. My thought was to point it out, get some support from others, and together take him out as I didn't feel like I would have succeeded myself.
I would just ask, go look what I have done through the lens of an uncertain town, as opposed to scum. A lot of what you said is just bad play tells, not really scumtells.
It's in the post.
Without looking I believe it was between 120 and 121...
Thanks, I'll have to go back and analyze the interactions that occurred around that time. Hopefully, that can get us some more solid reads and information, the scum chat message should be a gold mine for us.
@Eco: Confirming as town (or scum) either sets us up with a great day 2, clears a player that (I mean this with no disrespect) is unlikely to draw a night kill.
Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't go for it. You should be trying to lynch scum, and if you're right then you have to spend another day lynching them. However, with the town as far ahead as it is, this isn't so much of a drawback, and allows us to test Nacho out, and if we're wrong it does, as you say, give us a confirmed townie. I'm therefore fine if Nacho chooses to use his ability toDay, however I still really think that we should be trying to lynch someone we think is scum, and not running some random townie up to try and confirm them.
Have you read games that I have been in in the past? This is how I tend to play, I have trouble committing to reads and wagons. Especially considering with this game, and how mired down it got, I never really have been able to get a handle on it, which has lead to this be exacerbated.
The vote on IMAB for putting DV on ignore was also to see how he would react to that, though I do disagree with you that its not scummy. It is, but not a giant scum tell, but IMAB didn't respond in the way of attempting to dismiss the vote. Instead he went full-OMGUS on the bit and voted me back, which is something I think scum would do in that situation.
"How exactly is Anak only leaning scum on someone moments before he was very happy to still be voting?"
You are nitpicking at wording here, he was a leaning scum read that was going the wrong direction, and the best read I had at the time. At this point, he wasn't confirmed scum or anything, but he wasn't reacting well or doing anything to help himself. Hence, someone I am happy to be voting, but he was leaning scum.
I am bad at pushing wagons, when I caught him in that lie I wasn't even sure how to go about getting him actually lynched with that information. Look at the way he had been responding to others, one on one he was essentially just ignoring what people said and told them they were wrong. My thought was to point it out, get some support from others, and together take him out as I didn't feel like I would have succeeded myself.
I would just ask, go look what I have done through the lens of an uncertain town, as opposed to scum. A lot of what you said is just bad play tells, not really scumtells.
The problem is that not only have you been sat squarely on the fence the entire game, you haven't even tried to get off it or scumhunt at all. A townie who can't make their mind up should be reading and rereading, looking for evidence one way or the other. You have done exactly none of that, with your one single vote in 1200 post Day being a poorly substantiated bandwagon.
A scummy play style does not excuse objectively scummy behaviour. Your actions have gone beyond just a non-committal play style: not only have you not looked town at all, you have not even attempted to engage in activities that a town player would have.
I really would appreciate every else having some sort of opinion here, I didn't write this case just for fun and Anak has basically plead no contest to objectively scummy behaviour.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Eco: Confirming as town (or scum) either sets us up with a great day 2, clears a player that (I mean this with no disrespect) is unlikely to draw a night kill.
Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't go for it. You should be trying to lynch scum, and if you're right then you have to spend another day lynching them. However, with the town as far ahead as it is, this isn't so much of a drawback, and allows us to test Nacho out, and if we're wrong it does, as you say, give us a confirmed townie. I'm therefore fine if Nacho chooses to use his ability toDay, however I still really think that we should be trying to lynch someone we think is scum, and not running some random townie up to try and confirm them.
Have you read games that I have been in in the past? This is how I tend to play, I have trouble committing to reads and wagons. Especially considering with this game, and how mired down it got, I never really have been able to get a handle on it, which has lead to this be exacerbated.
The vote on IMAB for putting DV on ignore was also to see how he would react to that, though I do disagree with you that its not scummy. It is, but not a giant scum tell, but IMAB didn't respond in the way of attempting to dismiss the vote. Instead he went full-OMGUS on the bit and voted me back, which is something I think scum would do in that situation.
"How exactly is Anak only leaning scum on someone moments before he was very happy to still be voting?"
You are nitpicking at wording here, he was a leaning scum read that was going the wrong direction, and the best read I had at the time. At this point, he wasn't confirmed scum or anything, but he wasn't reacting well or doing anything to help himself. Hence, someone I am happy to be voting, but he was leaning scum.
I am bad at pushing wagons, when I caught him in that lie I wasn't even sure how to go about getting him actually lynched with that information. Look at the way he had been responding to others, one on one he was essentially just ignoring what people said and told them they were wrong. My thought was to point it out, get some support from others, and together take him out as I didn't feel like I would have succeeded myself.
I would just ask, go look what I have done through the lens of an uncertain town, as opposed to scum. A lot of what you said is just bad play tells, not really scumtells.
The problem is that not only have you been sat squarely on the fence the entire game, you haven't even tried to get off it or scumhunt at all. A townie who can't make their mind up should be reading and rereading, looking for evidence one way or the other. You have done exactly none of that, with your one single vote in 1200 post Day being a poorly substantiated bandwagon.
A scummy play style does not excuse objectively scummy behaviour. Your actions have gone beyond just a non-committal play style: not only have you not looked town at all, you have not even attempted to engage in activities that a town player would have.
I really would appreciate every else having some sort of opinion here, I didn't write this case just for fun and Anak has basically plead no contest to objectively scummy behaviour.
The vote initially may have been poor, but his self-proclaimed OMGUS and other responses more than justified it. I just have not been able to get a handle on this game, whether because of the general malaise around it or not I can't really say, but that doesn't make it not true. All I ask is give me a chance, now that the modgod has resolved the lurkers and the game is going to pick up, let me prove my towniness. You could say I claimed no contest, it wouldn't really be wrong, but let me show its just me being bad, and not scum.
Speaking of which, Hunt posting something from the Mafia (potential?) daychat is a gambit that I think would be too much for him to come up with as scum. So I believe him and what he says, in a game like this calling out all of the lurkers as scum seems like a bad idea when it appears that some (7hawk77) were actually scum.
GJ still would resolve himself given enough time, I still don't think that's the right course for today certainly.
Will work on a real T/S list for everyone tonight, and get some discussion going from there.
anak has a post like that every game, so i cant really townread him for it. its definitely in his town meta, but he almost certainly knows that.
why do people doubt the scum teams were reconfigured? i mean, we cant be sure of it certainly. but isnt it more likely than the 3 deaths all being one team?
it seems a perfectly reasonable thing for tare to do if half the scum were dying at once.
this game turned from a hostile, contentious place to one that is all too pleasant. remember theres still people here trying to kill us.
we really need to end this Day. our deadline is back in effect and could easily be soon. so im going to use this crazy amount of town cred i have to make it happen.
nacho and johnny are among my (what passes for) scumreads, but they have claims out there that should be resolved. im inclined to stick hunt in this group for his claim, but ill leave him for now.
me, rob, and kj are more or less universally townread, so lets just not waste everyone's time.
DV isnt part of the game yet. azrael is but also isnt.
im taking hans, ghosting, and bur off the list because im the one making it and i said so. it doesnt mean they are all town, but none of them should be killed or revealed toDay for various reasons.
i'd also like to remove both replacements from the list. if either (or both) is scum, id like to sincerely thank them for replacing in and give them a Day to try and fool us. its only fair.
if you really want any of these people to be considered, make a case and make it good. and youd better do it soon.
i would happily vote for any of them to end the Day. in order of preference: dota, necarg, anak, huntz
so: unvote, vote: citric
i want everyone's next post to be voting one of those 4 people or telling us who you think it should be instead.
@nacho, make your own decision for governing. if you'd like to make a list for that, great.
lets do this.
and remember:
to place your vote on anak, vote for me
to vote dota, actually vote citric (like me)
to vote hunt, vote hans
to vote necarg, vote nacho
@Tom: Can you please explain why anyone on that list comes higher than Anak? I don't really disagree with the list, but there's no actual reason to lynch anyone on it apart from the one I posted on Anak. Just pushing an effectively random lynch with no wagon tells us basically nothing at all, whileaAt least Anak has a strong chance of actually being scum.
@DoTArchon: Doing nothing and voting for yourself is a cop out and poor play. Nacho isn't guaranteed to stop the lynch, so why would you not at least TRY to find some scum?
@eco i dont know that anyone on that list has a particularly high chance of being scum. your anak case is honestly somewhat null. his response was...expected. and could totally be true.
that wasnt a list of who i think is scummy. as evidenced by hunt being on there and nacho/johnny not.
thats just a list of our realistic options right now so we can end the Day. which we undeniably need to do.
we have been talking in circles for the better part of a month here. we were deprived of the lynch we should have had today, and need to come up with something. if not for nacho's claim, id be going hard for a no lynch. i suspect hed pardon 2 or 3 of our choices, but we'll never know if we dont make a damn choice.
i want everyone's next post to be voting one of those 4 people or telling us who you think it should be instead.
Already done.
just an fyi, to both you and dota: the current plan is nacho making his own decision. he may decide to pardon either of you, but it isnt set in stone.
do you still want to be voting for yourselves?
@all the votecount reset with the modkills. as far as i can tell, there has only been 3 properly formatted votes since (me and dota on citric>dota, necarg on nacho>himself.)
eco, DV, and huntz votes contained no colon.
oh wait, did any of us mention that for the replacements?
proper format is [b]vote: player[/b] (hell yeah use of noparse tags)
@eco i dont know that anyone on that list has a particularly high chance of being scum. your anak case is honestly somewhat null. his response was...expected. and could totally be true.
that wasnt a list of who i think is scummy. as evidenced by hunt being on there and nacho/johnny not.
thats just a list of our realistic options right now so we can end the Day. which we undeniably need to do.
we have been talking in circles for the better part of a month here. we were deprived of the lynch we should have had today, and need to come up with something. if not for nacho's claim, id be going hard for a no lynch. i suspect hed pardon 2 or 3 of our choices, but we'll never know if we dont make a damn choice.
You may not agree with my case, but it's a damn sight more of a case than any other potential lynch candidate actually has on them. That said, if people really actually disagree with me, then I'm not ruling out voting for someone else to end the day, I'd just like to end it with a reasonable lynch and not have people vote themselves out of apathy.
I totally didn't know votes needed a colon. Thanks mod. Vote: tomsloger -> Anak
Still want to test this before we move to Anak, but I am convinced enough. I'll share my own thoughts on the matter being that both of the main scum players in this game, were pretty aggressive and I kind of wonder if Anak might have been dissuaded for that reason. If he was he was if he wasn't he wasn't, it just kind of makes this behavior more explainable to me. Nobody seemed really interested in challenging businessman other than me and he put me on ignore for having a PR or so he claimed.
Still want to test this before we move to Anak, but I am convinced enough. I'll share my own thoughts on the matter being that both of the main scum players in this game, were pretty aggressive and I kind of wonder if Anak might have been dissuaded for that reason. If he was he was if he wasn't he wasn't, it just kind of makes this behavior more explainable to me. Nobody seemed really interested in challenging businessman other than me and he put me on ignore for having a PR or so he claimed.
Can you provide instances of leuko's aggressiveness? I was under the impression the general consensus was that he was the exact opposite, and wasn't providing much input at all.
Still want to test this before we move to Anak, but I am convinced enough. I'll share my own thoughts on the matter being that both of the main scum players in this game, were pretty aggressive and I kind of wonder if Anak might have been dissuaded for that reason. If he was he was if he wasn't he wasn't, it just kind of makes this behavior more explainable to me. Nobody seemed really interested in challenging businessman other than me and he put me on ignore for having a PR or so he claimed.
Can you provide instances of leuko's aggressiveness? I was under the impression the general consensus was that he was the exact opposite, and wasn't providing much input at all.
I meant TS, since I still feel that he was anti-town. Good point though.
Apologies for yet another delay - thought I could get out a vote count before I got the other two wisdom teeth pulled, but no dice. At least that's over and done with.
---
Did you change the faction of any mod killed players?
No. (As Mafia 2 lost anyways and players were modkilled to preserve the gamestate, rendering Mafia 2 Neutral Survivors was not necessary.
Did we receive full faction flips from all modkilled players?
If I understand the question correctly, then yes.
(Also, in case it was not clear: Hawk was *not* modkilled. Something else killed him first.)
The Ninth Vote Count (aka the "As of Post 1277" Vote Count)
Well, I'm glad my read on tom was accurate, but what was he modkilled for‽ If I'm not allowed to ask that, please disregard, I don't want to get modkilled too.
Well, I'm glad my read on tom was accurate, but what was he modkilled for‽ If I'm not allowed to ask that, please disregard, I don't want to get modkilled too.
Don't post in red text this has been a rule for ever on like every mafia forum. I really didn't think about it. And there is our mod playing the game with that vote if anyone missed that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I had (yes past tense, I will get to that) an ability that allowed me to receive a copy of the last posted message in the scum chat QT. I had two shots of this ability. I used one back on February 15th, basically right away, hoping to catch some kind of name slip, claim of a role, or plan for the day for the scum team. In the role it states that the Mafia were aware of this ability existing, just not who had it. The ability resolved between post 120 and 121 in the thread. What I received back will need to be paraphrased, that way I don't break any perceived rules... but basically it read like this:
So, I stuck to watching the lurkers like a hawk, hence the lean scum read of Leuko which ultimately proved to be on point as well as the lean scum on Hawk (eventually) which also proved to be good.
I no longer have a second shot, and I did not use it. That's all I will say until I get more of an answer. So this ability is gone.
Reading into things a little, I feel I had an inside look into Mafia 2's qt with the ability. The phrasing ALL OF US makes me think that there was a third member of the team that has now been absorbed into Mafia 1's team.
I can see Hawk and Leuko on the Mafia 2, with Imab being on Mafia 1; obviously Imab was NOT lurking hardcore.
DV Seems to know that Imab is Mafia 1 in this post. I think that is extremely suspect. He could argue "phrasing" but it doesn't read that way to me.
Also:
Tom, trust me. GJ will resolve himself. There is no reason NOT to let him have a chance to let the Mason stuff clear him. I won't tell you to stop following your gut on him, but if you want my opinion; I believe him.
RobRoy being the first to bring up consolidation of the teams is suspect as well. I am still reading him townie overall, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this but keep one eye watching him.
This also tingled my scumdar as well. It felt as though he was playing dumb about something he already knew. You could argue the whole "why would he post it then?" argument, but hey, WIFOM is a thing.
I am actually thinking Citric at this stage. He replaced in for the best Lurker EVER (RIP Darth Melvin) who could have been scum three in Mafia 2. Actually the better chance is Ecophagy, simply because I think Jobie had a HIGH probability of being scum three in Mafia 2 as well.
Unvote
Vote Huntzilla
Still hate voting for myself...
I had (yes past tense, I will get to that) an ability that allowed me to receive a copy of the last posted message in the scum chat QT. I had two shots of this ability. I used one back on February 15th, basically right away, hoping to catch some kind of name slip, claim of a role, or plan for the day for the scum team. In the role it states that the Mafia were aware of this ability existing, just not who had it. The ability resolved between post 120 and 121 in the thread. What I received back will need to be paraphrased, that way I don't break any perceived rules... but basically it read like this:
So, I stuck to watching the lurkers like a hawk, hence the lean scum read of Leuko which ultimately proved to be on point as well as the lean scum on Hawk (eventually) which also proved to be good.
I no longer have a second shot, and I did not use it. That's all I will say until I get more of an answer. So this ability is gone.
Reading into things a little, I feel I had an inside look into Mafia 2's qt with the ability. The phrasing ALL OF US makes me think that there was a third member of the team that has now been absorbed into Mafia 1's team.
I can see Hawk and Leuko on the Mafia 2, with Imab being on Mafia 1; obviously Imab was NOT lurking hardcore.
DV Seems to know that Imab is Mafia 1 in this post. I think that is extremely suspect. He could argue "phrasing" but it doesn't read that way to me.
Also:
Tom, trust me. GJ will resolve himself. There is no reason NOT to let him have a chance to let the Mason stuff clear him. I won't tell you to stop following your gut on him, but if you want my opinion; I believe him.
RobRoy being the first to bring up consolidation of the teams is suspect as well. I am still reading him townie overall, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this but keep one eye watching him.
This also tingled my scumdar as well. It felt as though he was playing dumb about something he already knew. You could argue the whole "why would he post it then?" argument, but hey, WIFOM is a thing.
I am actually thinking Citric at this stage. He replaced in for the best Lurker EVER (RIP Darth Melvin) who could have been scum three in Mafia 2. Actually the better chance is Ecophagy, simply because I think Jobie had a HIGH probability of being scum three in Mafia 2 as well.
Unvote
Vote Huntzilla
Still hate voting for myself...
It might be useful if you reread my interactions with Iamab; you'll see that I asked him a few questions in various posts, responded to his questions, and noted my appreciation for his responses that, at the time, made me feel much better about him. Now I know I should've stuck to my gut, but that's in the past, and everyone pretty much disagreed with me that he was scummy.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I don't like how this is worded. It sounds like you're trying to convince the town of Rob's newfound credence, while assuming the route of action he would take. Do you not think there are situations in which Rob could be scum and behaved the way he did? Why or why not?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I think we need to be paying a good amount of attention to this. Hunt, when did you get this message, so we can know where to look for the supposed aimless wandering. We should be able to get a good idea of what they mean by the town killing themselves, and narrow our scumspects a bit better.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I was arguing that rob roy could be part of mafia one not Businessman.
It is ***** wording, I eventually reworded it in post 1216.
To answer your question I do believe that if he was part of Mafia one and didn't know there was a mafia two, then he would have written off the argument as town v. town and simply supported one person at random, or who ever he viewed to be the stronger townie.
It's in the post.
Without looking I believe it was between 120 and 121...
Tar uses dark red and red tags to distinguish between different mafia factions (notice how hawk flipped dark read mafia and not mafia 1 or mafia 2 and we got his full flip), meaning that we got a full faction flip but not role names or roles.
And, since you won't believe me:
Did you change the faction of any mod killed players?
Did we receive full faction flips from all modkilled players?
I forgot I wasn't waiting in this game anymore, will be around tomorrow.
@Hunt - So does your ability mean that mafia have daychat? I'm really confused as to how your ability would resolve with two different mafias though.
I'll go back a check, but I feel like the biggest thing happening that early in the game was everyone taking sides on Tom vs. TS. If that timeframe matches up, I'd argue that's pretty strong evidence that Tom is town but I guess it's flawed in the sense that Tom could still be on the side of whichever mafia that didn't post that.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
The ability implies that they have day chat. Yup.
I tried to rationalize the two Mafia part of it in my post the best I could surmise. No idea how it actually works in multiple mafias because it doesn't state anything to do with multiple mafias...
I can actually see them all being together as one team I suppose.
Just a guess.
Feeling infinitely better about Eco's spot.
@Eco: Confirming as town (or scum) either sets us up with a great day 2, clears a player that (I mean this with no disrespect) is unlikely to draw a night kill.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Unvote Vote Tomslogger
Yeah I am ready to do Necarg, I just really want to move to day 2 and just get more info.
I still need to read Anak and its only like 27 posts but I just like can't get the motivation to do so.
I am actaully all for that, but not this early. The later we can have that ability work, the better. Having a confirmed town (or confirmed scum) close to lylo would obviously be very beneficial.
Given the wording, I don't think there was consolidation. It specifically says "All members of Mafia 2 are dead" which makes me think they were part of Mafia 2 all the time.
I do agree that it messes up our reads, since I'm not sure Mafia 1 and Mafia 2 knew who each other were. They could have been two completely seperate entities. Hopefully this is not the case, because then interactions can tell us things.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say GJ likely doesn't claim what he did so early if he cannot back it up to some extent. It's worth giving him a Day or two to prove it. And we should not reveal him, because I believe he is what he says he is.
Also who is Randy?
Dude you're the last person I would want to reveal. You're my top town read. I believe you're most people's top town read. Behaviorally you're very town. There are for sure better targets.
I'm actually making an about face on my "lets not reveal a lurker" position, and would like to reveal Eco, actually. Jobie was technically lurky, but that's not actually the reason I want to do it.
Eco is a great analyst. He is also very good at convincing others of things. He is ALSO very very good at looking town as scum. If he's town, the mafia already know and he likely is going to be a target of theirs soon. Confirming him will curb paranoia and will hopefully give me another stong player town read along with Rob.
Yeah, I don't like Spy claims from people I'm not townreading. That said, the quote is likely accurate since either you're town and can see that, or are scum and can see that.
I also need to go back and check the accuracy of you saying that you watched the lurkers after that. I need to see how you approached this before I make a decision in this matter.
Both of these are actually realyl good points. Either Hunt is making this up (but like I said earlier, I doubt it) or the scum have daychat. Also, I'm thinking of two posibilities for the second thing: either he randomly sees one of the mafia chats at the time he uses it (as town) or he sees the OTHER mafia chat at the time he uses it. This would help find the other scum in the game.
Again, the wording implies two teams. Numbering them in effect seperates them. I feel like factions might also imply seperate win conditions, which makes a mafia supergroup makes less sense to me.
Only game I recall having two mafia factions was Cyberpunk, and IIRC they had seperate wincons, and didn't know who each other were.
What makes you like Eco?
-------------------------
I'll do Nacho things tomorrow, and also hopefully read Anak. Nacho comes first though. Oh, also need to look at Hunt's claim.
Have you read games that I have been in in the past? This is how I tend to play, I have trouble committing to reads and wagons. Especially considering with this game, and how mired down it got, I never really have been able to get a handle on it, which has lead to this be exacerbated.
The vote on IMAB for putting DV on ignore was also to see how he would react to that, though I do disagree with you that its not scummy. It is, but not a giant scum tell, but IMAB didn't respond in the way of attempting to dismiss the vote. Instead he went full-OMGUS on the bit and voted me back, which is something I think scum would do in that situation.
"How exactly is Anak only leaning scum on someone moments before he was very happy to still be voting?"
You are nitpicking at wording here, he was a leaning scum read that was going the wrong direction, and the best read I had at the time. At this point, he wasn't confirmed scum or anything, but he wasn't reacting well or doing anything to help himself. Hence, someone I am happy to be voting, but he was leaning scum.
I am bad at pushing wagons, when I caught him in that lie I wasn't even sure how to go about getting him actually lynched with that information. Look at the way he had been responding to others, one on one he was essentially just ignoring what people said and told them they were wrong. My thought was to point it out, get some support from others, and together take him out as I didn't feel like I would have succeeded myself.
I would just ask, go look what I have done through the lens of an uncertain town, as opposed to scum. A lot of what you said is just bad play tells, not really scumtells.
Thanks, I'll have to go back and analyze the interactions that occurred around that time. Hopefully, that can get us some more solid reads and information, the scum chat message should be a gold mine for us.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't go for it. You should be trying to lynch scum, and if you're right then you have to spend another day lynching them. However, with the town as far ahead as it is, this isn't so much of a drawback, and allows us to test Nacho out, and if we're wrong it does, as you say, give us a confirmed townie. I'm therefore fine if Nacho chooses to use his ability toDay, however I still really think that we should be trying to lynch someone we think is scum, and not running some random townie up to try and confirm them.
The problem is that not only have you been sat squarely on the fence the entire game, you haven't even tried to get off it or scumhunt at all. A townie who can't make their mind up should be reading and rereading, looking for evidence one way or the other. You have done exactly none of that, with your one single vote in 1200 post Day being a poorly substantiated bandwagon.
A scummy play style does not excuse objectively scummy behaviour. Your actions have gone beyond just a non-committal play style: not only have you not looked town at all, you have not even attempted to engage in activities that a town player would have.
I really would appreciate every else having some sort of opinion here, I didn't write this case just for fun and Anak has basically plead no contest to objectively scummy behaviour.
As I said in #1231, it's a gut read. He also claimed spontaneously with the idea of helping the town plan lynches, which helps.
And he was governor in another game recently.
The vote initially may have been poor, but his self-proclaimed OMGUS and other responses more than justified it. I just have not been able to get a handle on this game, whether because of the general malaise around it or not I can't really say, but that doesn't make it not true. All I ask is give me a chance, now that the modgod has resolved the lurkers and the game is going to pick up, let me prove my towniness. You could say I claimed no contest, it wouldn't really be wrong, but let me show its just me being bad, and not scum.
Speaking of which, Hunt posting something from the Mafia (potential?) daychat is a gambit that I think would be too much for him to come up with as scum. So I believe him and what he says, in a game like this calling out all of the lurkers as scum seems like a bad idea when it appears that some (7hawk77) were actually scum.
GJ still would resolve himself given enough time, I still don't think that's the right course for today certainly.
Will work on a real T/S list for everyone tonight, and get some discussion going from there.
why do people doubt the scum teams were reconfigured? i mean, we cant be sure of it certainly. but isnt it more likely than the 3 deaths all being one team?
it seems a perfectly reasonable thing for tare to do if half the scum were dying at once.
this game turned from a hostile, contentious place to one that is all too pleasant. remember theres still people here trying to kill us.
we really need to end this Day. our deadline is back in effect and could easily be soon. so im going to use this crazy amount of town cred i have to make it happen.
nacho and johnny are among my (what passes for) scumreads, but they have claims out there that should be resolved. im inclined to stick hunt in this group for his claim, but ill leave him for now.
me, rob, and kj are more or less universally townread, so lets just not waste everyone's time.
DV isnt part of the game yet. azrael is but also isnt.
im taking hans, ghosting, and bur off the list because im the one making it and i said so. it doesnt mean they are all town, but none of them should be killed or revealed toDay for various reasons.
i'd also like to remove both replacements from the list. if either (or both) is scum, id like to sincerely thank them for replacing in and give them a Day to try and fool us. its only fair.
if you really want any of these people to be considered, make a case and make it good. and youd better do it soon.
barring that, these are our four choices toDay:
6) DoTArchon
10) Huntzilla
16) Necarg
i would happily vote for any of them to end the Day. in order of preference: dota, necarg, anak, huntz
so:
unvote, vote: citric
i want everyone's next post to be voting one of those 4 people or telling us who you think it should be instead.
@nacho, make your own decision for governing. if you'd like to make a list for that, great.
lets do this.
and remember:
to place your vote on anak, vote for me
to vote dota, actually vote citric (like me)
to vote hunt, vote hans
to vote necarg, vote nacho
Vote: CitricBasse
Will be happy to end this day and remove myself from the suspect pool. This Day has dragged on waaaaaay too long.
@DoTArchon: Doing nothing and voting for yourself is a cop out and poor play. Nacho isn't guaranteed to stop the lynch, so why would you not at least TRY to find some scum?
What's your point? Also it doesn't matter that he was governor recently. Gambler's fallacy is still a fallacy.
that wasnt a list of who i think is scummy. as evidenced by hunt being on there and nacho/johnny not.
thats just a list of our realistic options right now so we can end the Day. which we undeniably need to do.
we have been talking in circles for the better part of a month here. we were deprived of the lynch we should have had today, and need to come up with something. if not for nacho's claim, id be going hard for a no lynch. i suspect hed pardon 2 or 3 of our choices, but we'll never know if we dont make a damn choice.
do you still want to be voting for yourselves?
@all the votecount reset with the modkills. as far as i can tell, there has only been 3 properly formatted votes since (me and dota on citric>dota, necarg on nacho>himself.)
eco, DV, and huntz votes contained no colon.
oh wait, did any of us mention that for the replacements?
proper format is [b]vote: player[/b] (hell yeah use of noparse tags)
You may not agree with my case, but it's a damn sight more of a case than any other potential lynch candidate actually has on them. That said, if people really actually disagree with me, then I'm not ruling out voting for someone else to end the day, I'd just like to end it with a reasonable lynch and not have people vote themselves out of apathy.
I totally didn't know votes needed a colon. Thanks mod. Vote: tomsloger -> Anak
Still want to test this before we move to Anak, but I am convinced enough. I'll share my own thoughts on the matter being that both of the main scum players in this game, were pretty aggressive and I kind of wonder if Anak might have been dissuaded for that reason. If he was he was if he wasn't he wasn't, it just kind of makes this behavior more explainable to me. Nobody seemed really interested in challenging businessman other than me and he put me on ignore for having a PR or so he claimed.
But that's standard taredas rules.
Ok, so thats 2 for anak, 2 for dota, 1 for necarg.
Everybody else?
Can you provide instances of leuko's aggressiveness? I was under the impression the general consensus was that he was the exact opposite, and wasn't providing much input at all.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I meant TS, since I still feel that he was anti-town. Good point though.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
"Oh no, not again."
Apologies for yet another delay - thought I could get out a vote count before I got the other two wisdom teeth pulled, but no dice. At least that's over and done with.
---
Did you change the faction of any mod killed players?
No. (As Mafia 2 lost anyways and players were modkilled to preserve the gamestate, rendering Mafia 2 Neutral Survivors was not necessary.
Did we receive full faction flips from all modkilled players?
If I understand the question correctly, then yes.
(Also, in case it was not clear: Hawk was *not* modkilled. Something else killed him first.)
The Ninth Vote Count (aka the "As of Post 1277" Vote Count)
2) Anaklusmos (1) -
3) Bur (0) -
4) CitricBase (rep. Darth Melvin) (0) - tomsloger
6) DoTArchon (1) -
7) Gentleman Johnny (0) -
8) Ghosting (0) -
9) hansanator (0) -
10) Huntzilla (0) - Huntzilla
11) Ecophagy (rep. Jobie) (0) -
13) Killjoy (0) -
15) Nachomamma8 (0) -
16) Necarg (0) -
18) RobRoy (0) -
20) tomsloger (0) - D_V
Not Voting (15) - Anaklusmos, Bur, CitricBase, DoTArchon, Gentleman Johnny, Ghosting, hansanator, Ecophagy, Killjoy, Nachomamma8, Necarg, RobRoy
With ??? votes in play it takes ??? votes to lynch.
Day 1 Deadline: [REDACTED - Rule 0]
Please stop posting. Mod action forthcoming.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Tomloger is being modkilled for posts 1245 and 1277. (Both are modkillable offenses in this game.)
20) tomsloger, Tarhalindur (from Real Life), Townie Setup Analyst, was modkilled Day 2.
Vote Count reset. New deadline set. Day 2 continues.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
---
The Tenth Vote Count (aka the "Parhexavoctal" Vote Count)
2) Anaklusmos (0) -
3) Bur (0) -
4) CitricBase (rep. Darth Melvin) (0) - DoTArchon
6) DoTArchon (1) -
7) Gentleman Johnny (0) -
8) Ghosting (0) -
9) hansanator (0) -
10) Huntzilla (0) -
11) Ecophagy (rep. Jobie) (0) -
13) Killjoy (0) -
15) Nachomamma8 (0) -
16) Necarg (0) - Taredas
18) RobRoy (1) -
tomsloger (2) - Ecophagy, D_V
Not Voting (13) - Anaklusmos, Bur, CitricBase, Gentleman Johnny, Ghosting, hansanator, Huntzilla, Killjoy, Nachomamma8, Necarg, RobRoy
With ??? votes in play it takes ??? votes to lynch.
Day 1 Deadline: [REDACTED - Rule 0]
End point of order!
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Don't post in red text this has been a rule for ever on like every mafia forum. I really didn't think about it. And there is our mod playing the game with that vote if anyone missed that.
Yeah I feel much more solid on the reads of Anak.
Unvote Vote:Robroy
This is an important question.
Vote: RobRoy > Anak
Vote count please mod. This bears checking.
Exactly!?
I have another idea that I need to put to words later when I have time.
For now:
Unvote
Vote DV
Unvote
Vote Huntzilla
Anybody have anything else to talk about?
I have nothing else to say. I really haven't for a while.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote: Citric redirect to Dota.
Can't think of anything he has done this game, lurked hard through the day, Toms top scum read as well.