Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
TappingStones: Can I ask how old you are? No idea if you care or not if I know, but I would like to know for reference.
@ghosting-you said Tom is 100% scum this game. And that you had proof. Now that your proof is inadmissable yiu are saying he's likely town?
My reads are in thread for anyone to see and Ive posted multipe times. Getting a little sick of the misrepresentations. Asking others to participate is not scummy. Its in fact the best way for town to win. The more people talk the better. Bizarre try to say Im looking to follow others reads when Ive posted reads on multiple occassions.
There's a general apathy on this sight where people vla, say they are busy, attack the active players until the deadline bears, then all of a sudden people start to play. How about we cut the procrastination and get down to business?
As Ive said already, looking at Tom, Necarg, Bur, Hans, and to a lesser extent Hunt, DOTA, Ghosting, DV.
That's 8 names. Id like to narrow it down. Ive ISO'd Tom, Necarg, Hans, and DV.
Anyone else want to get involved? Some data to present? Things I missed, folks Im wrong about?
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
TappingStones: Can I ask how old you are? No idea if you care or not if I know, but I would like to know for reference.
This is an opportunistic question. Play within the game. Your last post to IABM in conjunction with post about Tom going from 100% scum...to town now have rifled you up to near the top of the scum chart.
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
1. You're welcome to look into this, but you're right. Multiple occasions in the past 2 or 3 days. Before that, I haven't, and as I said, I have a busy life. I came back and have apologised, posted more content. And again, it's been MAYBE 3 days. You had a friend's lung collapse, I'm sure you can sympathise with life interfering with Mafia.
2. So far, what have you determined from Tracker mafia? I look forward to your answer.
3. Okay, and you failed to respond to why I am calling you out for this. You're down to lynch Nacho, but you aren't down to push his case. If you genuinely think he is scum, your job is to convince that of us. That is a huge motivation for town, scum has the opposite: they'll make it so their views are flexible and they don't want to push any cases unless town is doing so.
4. Going to be responding to this when I am out of school tonight, as I would like to have my notes and quotes for reference so my points can be validated. I'm fairly confident I'm right as I just did a quick ISO from my phone and determined that, but I'll make sure to confirm that tonight. I'm 99% sure this is true though. Nacho was a popular scumspect, more so than others, so yes he was "popular" when compared to others.
5. Yes? Hence me noting it...
6. I'd like you to compile a list of the times I've "talked about how I'll catch up" that AREN'T from the past 3-4 days. Again, I have a life. If you can take 6 classes, work 30 hours, plus an internship, plus everything else life entails, while not having internet, I will take your concerns more seriously. Or if your point was actually true, but it's not. You've literally just been repeating that I'm nonstop "promising I'll catch up", when it's been a VERY short period of time. What about the other players who aren't posting? And those who don't even have excuses?
@ghosting-you said Tom is 100% scum this game. And that you had proof. Now that your proof is inadmissable yiu are saying he's likely town?
Please act as though what I said didn't happen. I have zero issue explaining when this game is over, but I'm not allowed to until then, in order to keep the game legitimate. That 100% confirmed scum read was a result of the proof which is now null and void. Before that, I had my suspicions because of his interactions with you and how he responded. I now see that he has a very headstrong playstyle and will probably continue to be lynched early if he doesn't change it.
My reads are in thread for anyone to see and Ive posted multipe times. Getting a little sick of the misrepresentations. Asking others to participate is not scummy. Its in fact the best way for town to win. The more people talk the better. Bizarre try to say Im looking to follow others reads when Ive posted reads on multiple occassions.
As I've said, it is equally likely you are town and doing this. I used to do the same as well, and it got me lynched more times than I'd like to look back on.
As Ive said already, looking at Tom, Necarg, Bur, Hans, and to a lesser extent Hunt, DOTA, Ghosting, DV.
Are you still looking at Tom then? Do you no longer think I'm town then?
(Also, while I probably shouldn't say this, the proof does make me think he is likely to be town. I shouldn't let that influence anyone, but it doesn't change the fact that it affected my view as much as I'd like to remain unaffected.)
@Everyone: Would it be okay for everyone who can hear voices/feel presences/anything involving spirits/ghosts/invisibility to let us know ONLY that. No more information is necessary, but I think it would be very beneficial to town. Proph is a town player who was mysteriously "killed". If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, let me know, I just have a theory that, with this information, could be largely beneficial to town. If this is obviously a bad idea and I'm just missing the reason, feel free to inform me, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Also, you missed a few points, Imab. Can you respond to them for me? I'm hoping you will convince me you are town.
1) His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). Do you think not paying attention to D_V will be beneficial to the town? Do you think dismissing a case because a player is "bad' is beneficial to the town?
2) His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). Can you explain why these players are slightly scummy, and not scum? Can you explain why Nacho is listed as slightly scummy, not scum, but you have confirmed you are very willing to lynch him?
3) His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Do you disagree that this isn't opportunist? Do you think other players, who have posted less and without reasons, are less scummy than me despite less activity?
@ghosting-you said Tom is 100% scum this game. And that you had proof. Now that your proof is inadmissable yiu are saying he's likely town?
Please act as though what I said didn't happen. I have zero issue explaining when this game is over, but I'm not allowed to until then, in order to keep the game legitimate. That 100% confirmed scum read was a result of the proof which is now null and void. Before that, I had my suspicions because of his interactions with you and how he responded. I now see that he has a very headstrong playstyle and will probably continue to be lynched early if he doesn't change it.
My reads are in thread for anyone to see and Ive posted multipe times. Getting a little sick of the misrepresentations. Asking others to participate is not scummy. Its in fact the best way for town to win. The more people talk the better. Bizarre try to say Im looking to follow others reads when Ive posted reads on multiple occassions.
As I've said, it is equally likely you are town and doing this. I used to do the same as well, and it got me lynched more times than I'd like to look back on.
As Ive said already, looking at Tom, Necarg, Bur, Hans, and to a lesser extent Hunt, DOTA, Ghosting, DV.
Are you still looking at Tom then? Do you no longer think I'm town then?
You are lean scum at the moment, yes. Of course Im looking at Tom but I dont want to lynch myself, you see currently if you want Tom to get votes you have to vote for me. I think there is a non-zero chance that I would get mislynched there as a "mindscrew" element of the game. Hence me wanting to see who actually gets lynched day one.
This is an opportunistic question. Play within the game. Your last post to IABM in conjunction with post about Tom going from 100% scum...to town now have rifled you up to near the top of the scum chart.
Again, please don't use my confirmation of Tom as scum in any way. That proof should be treated as though it never existed in the first place, and the ONLY reason he was "100% scum" was because of that proof. I should've waited for Tar to reply before posting it, and that will make total sense in the future, but I don't want to compromise the integrity of the game or have it affect the game in any way when it is 100% null and void at this point.
Also, how is it any less opportunistic of a question than you asking to read a scum game of mine in order to see if my use of emoticons is scummy? You don't think trying to see if someone used emoticons in a scum game in order to provide a "scum tell" is opportunistic? For reference, I wanted to know your age because it would help me label you as town. I will not use your age against you, I promise that. Remember when I said your play reminds me of how I used to play as town? I'm asking because if you are also young (I'm 20 now, but was 14-17 in my earlier Mafia days), it would further convince me that your play is in fact in line with my past play.
Actually, since Tom just flipped town in the only other game he was in (the Saw micro), I think I can provide the reason I thought he was 100% scum. Going to send a quick PM to see if I'm allowed to.
I didn't realise how many times in a row I just posted, I'm phone posting so I apologise, but one more.
@TappingStones: Can you point out what about my interaction with Imab made me go from very town in your eyes to very scummy? Do you disagree that Imab is scummy? Is your opinion at all influenced by my (potentially) changed opinion of you?
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the fact that Tom went from 100% scum to possibly town in Ghosting's eyes. Even if I believed Taredas said something to the lines of you can't speak of it, that still shouldn't change the alignment. The only difference would be Ghosting would use his actual posts to lynch Tom. I admit I don't like IMAB's OoG shenanigans and would argue that it is likely illegal, I don't see that as being alignment indicative.
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
1. You're welcome to look into this, but you're right. Multiple occasions in the past 2 or 3 days. Before that, I haven't, and as I said, I have a busy life. I came back and have apologised, posted more content. And again, it's been MAYBE 3 days. You had a friend's lung collapse, I'm sure you can sympathise with life interfering with Mafia.
2. So far, what have you determined from Tracker mafia? I look forward to your answer.
3. Okay, and you failed to respond to why I am calling you out for this. You're down to lynch Nacho, but you aren't down to push his case. If you genuinely think he is scum, your job is to convince that of us. That is a huge motivation for town, scum has the opposite: they'll make it so their views are flexible and they don't want to push any cases unless town is doing so.
4. Going to be responding to this when I am out of school tonight, as I would like to have my notes and quotes for reference so my points can be validated. I'm fairly confident I'm right as I just did a quick ISO from my phone and determined that, but I'll make sure to confirm that tonight. I'm 99% sure this is true though. Nacho was a popular scumspect, more so than others, so yes he was "popular" when compared to others.
5. Yes? Hence me noting it...
6. I'd like you to compile a list of the times I've "talked about how I'll catch up" that AREN'T from the past 3-4 days. Again, I have a life. If you can take 6 classes, work 30 hours, plus an internship, plus everything else life entails, while not having internet, I will take your concerns more seriously. Or if your point was actually true, but it's not. You've literally just been repeating that I'm nonstop "promising I'll catch up", when it's been a VERY short period of time. What about the other players who aren't posting? And those who don't even have excuses?
1. Hey guys my friend's lung collapsed so I'm taking him to the hospital. Hey sorry I don't have more time, the hospital's internet connection is really terrible. Hey still in the hospital checking on my buddy, will post more soon! I had to drive home and get some things and now I have work will maybe post more later tonight. Sorry I didn't post more I fell asleep and now I have to go to work...
I never did any of that. But that's the sort of thing you've been doing a lot.
2...
3. I was down to push his case. He's been less scummy which is why you see him in my "leans scum" pile and not my "scum" pile. Bur is my top suspect but even then that push is on hold to address point #2.
4. I look forward to you trying to Justify Nacho being a popular scumread in the face of the slew of townreads he was getting.
5. Really? So you mean you actually saw my statement in post 496 about why I wanted to vote Az, saw the explaination that Az cannot be voted, and you literally expected my vote to stay on Azrael? Really? That's what you think I should have done? Because almost immediately after post 496 I saw Bur's fake and lazy T/S list and that seemed to be a much more pressing concern. Speaking of Bur, let me go back to point #3. Bur was also taking a ton of suspicion which I wasn't down with until Bur made post 536. And even after Bur made post 536, It wasn't until she responded poorly that I got suspicious. This also disproves your "hopping on popular wagons" idea because Bur was actually losing attention and not being focused on at the time. But you knew all this. That's why you brought it up, right?
6. People who aren't posting simply aren't posting. They're not "promising to catch up" posting. If you have time to promise to catch up then you have time to contribute content.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the fact that Tom went from 100% scum to possibly town in Ghosting's eyes. Even if I believed Taredas said something to the lines of you can't speak of it, that still shouldn't change the alignment. The only difference would be Ghosting would use his actual posts to lynch Tom. I admit I don't like IMAB's OoG shenanigans and would argue that it is likely illegal, I don't see that as being alignment indicative.
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
Really?
Tom was only 100% scum BECAUSE of something that now is totally irrelevant and I discovered pertains in zero way at all to this game and was a mistake for me to even bring up. It would've been poor sportsmanship for me to use against him even if it was relevant, but it should not at all even exist in this game, ideally. Compare it to a player openly admitting they're scum in real life to you, and then you found out that they weren't talking to you or about the same game. It's hard to think of an example that accurately depicts this, but I will be pretty upset if this isn't excluded from the game, for the sake of the integrity of the game.
This is an opportunistic question. Play within the game. Your last post to IABM in conjunction with post about Tom going from 100% scum...to town now have rifled you up to near the top of the scum chart.
Again, please don't use my confirmation of Tom as scum in any way. That proof should be treated as though it never existed in the first place, and the ONLY reason he was "100% scum" was because of that proof. I should've waited for Tar to reply before posting it, and that will make total sense in the future, but I don't want to compromise the integrity of the game or have it affect the game in any way when it is 100% null and void at this point.
Also, how is it any less opportunistic of a question than you asking to read a scum game of mine in order to see if my use of emoticons is scummy? You don't think trying to see if someone used emoticons in a scum game in order to provide a "scum tell" is opportunistic? For reference, I wanted to know your age because it would help me label you as town. I will not use your age against you, I promise that. Remember when I said your play reminds me of how I used to play as town? I'm asking because if you are also young (I'm 20 now, but was 14-17 in my earlier Mafia days), it would further convince me that your play is in fact in line with my past play.
The emoticon thing, along with a general carefulness was a behavioral read, but an honest reading of your previous games proved those were not tells for either alignment.
I dont need you to town clear me on day one Ghosting. That's not a concern of mine. Id much rather you hunt scum. If I become a focal point down the line you can read Classic or Predator to see how my behavior lines up.
I'd love a Necarg lynch but seems Im in the minority...
Also, I've provided good reasoning as to why I think he's now town, and as I said, it wasn't because of the "evidence" that confirmed him as scum. Tom was scummy early on in my eyes for what everyone agrees is bad play on his part regardless of alignment, and now is town for reasons I explained less than an hour ago.
6. People who aren't posting simply aren't posting. They're not "promising to catch up" posting. If you have time to promise to catch up then you have time to contribute content.
I am afraid I am going to have to disagree. I often will read the gamestate on a laptop or phone , but then be unable to make a real post. I like making bigger posts, rather than smaller ones so saying I am going to catch up feels perfectly acceptable.
Anddd my notes just got deleted, so going to have to start again or just start them from now. Started to write notes in physics and forgot to make a new document.
The router at my house isn't allowing wireless access and won't be until Brighthouse comes and fixes it Wednesday, so I'm stuck with my phone and using the Ethernet until then. I also have midterms tomorrow and Thursday, so I will be slightly less focused on this. I'm definitely able to respond to any questions, but don't expect much tonight or tomorrow.
Also, since my internet is now fixed, I'll be doing some heavy rereading later tonight (hopefully). Have to study for my chemistry midterm tomorrow and do all of the online homework I wasn't able to complete while the internet was down.
@Imab: I take 6 classes (with a bunch of tests this week, also my major is Biochem so they aren't easy classes), bartend 30 hours a week as well as have an internship, have a girlfriend, had no internet for three days, a social life, etc. Please don't use real world conflicts to cast suspicion on me. Alternatively, I could not update and just ghost on you guys, but I am updating to confirm that while I am really busy, I plan to make up for that. I apologise that I've had a busy week, but when my choices are study for multiple tests in multiple classes, complete homework, etc. or read a game of Mafia, the latter obviously isn't going to be my first choice. I actually thought this was against the rules to do, but maybe I'm wrong/thinking of another site. It might seem like I'm making a lot of excuses, but it's been...2 days? Maybe 3?
.
The emoticon thing, along with a general carefulness was a behavioral read, but an honest reading of your previous games proved those were not tells for either alignment.
I'm not going to push you for an answer because I accept your reason for not providing one, but I was asking for the same reason you are (seeking further confirmation of a behavioural read).
I dont need you to town clear me on day one Ghosting. That's not a concern of mine. Id much rather you hunt scum. If I become a focal point down the line you can read Classic or Predator to see how my behavior lines up.
I feel as though finding players you think are town in addition to players you think are scum are equally important. It's fine if you disagree, but I was under the impression this is perfectly acceptable and beneficial. If I can confidently postulate that you are town, I don't have to worry (as much) that you are scum.
Also, I've provided good reasoning as to why I think he's now town, and as I said, it wasn't because of the "evidence" that confirmed him as scum. Tom was scummy early on in my eyes for what everyone agrees is bad play on his part regardless of alignment, and now is town for reasons I explained less than an hour ago.
@Ghosting-I dont like how you pushed on IABM. I dont like how you say im more scummy, based on what? I can forgive the 100% debacle. Let's forget about that.
Why is Tom not scum, need concrete reasoning, nothing about gut or feelings. Thanks old sport!
1. Hey guys my friend's lung collapsed so I'm taking him to the hospital. Hey sorry I don't have more time, the hospital's internet connection is really terrible. Hey still in the hospital checking on my buddy, will post more soon! I had to drive home and get some things and now I have work will maybe post more later tonight. Sorry I didn't post more I fell asleep and now I have to go to work...
I never did any of that. But that's the sort of thing you've been doing a lot.
2...
3. I was down to push his case. He's been less scummy which is why you see him in my "leans scum" pile and not my "scum" pile. Bur is my top suspect but even then that push is on hold to address point #2.
4. I look forward to you trying to Justify Nacho being a popular scumread in the face of the slew of townreads he was getting.
[quote]5. Really? So you mean you actually saw my statement in post 496 about why I wanted to vote Az, saw the explaination that Az cannot be voted, and you literally expected my vote to stay on Azrael? Really? That's what you think I should have done? Because almost immediately after post 496 I saw Bur's fake and lazy T/S list and that seemed to be a much more pressing concern. Speaking of Bur, let me go back to point #3. Bur was also taking a ton of suspicion which I wasn't down with until Bur made post 536. And even after Bur made post 536, It wasn't until she responded poorly that I got suspicious. This also disproves your "hopping on popular wagons" idea because Bur was actually losing attention and not being focused on at the time. But you knew all this. That's why you brought it up, right?
Thank you for your reply and the clarification alongside it. I assume I must have misread (posted from phone, notes and t/s list with reasons are on computer), but I will double check with my notes to further confirm. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this.
6. People who aren't posting simply aren't posting. They're not "promising to catch up" posting. If you have time to promise to catch up then you have time to contribute content.
I completely disagree for the same reason as GJ. Additionally, I would argue that it's a null point and ends up being WIFOM. Scum could post that they'll catch up to appear like they will, scum could not post they'll catch up to remain unnoticed, town could post it to let everyone know they do want to catch up and aren't just ignoring the game, etc. There's a million reasons for either side to update or not update, and I think it is poor play to try to say otherwise.
Also, not sure if it was missed, but a couple of you have responded since I asked the question about spirits/ghosts/whatever Proph is. Any thoughts on that?
Also, you missed a few points, Imab. Can you respond to them for me? I'm hoping you will convince me you are town.
1)Do you think not paying attention to D_V will be beneficial to the town? Do you think dismissing a case because a player is "bad' is beneficial to the town?
2) Can you explain why these players are slightly scummy, and not scum? Can you explain why Nacho is listed as slightly scummy, not scum, but you have confirmed you are very willing to lynch him?
3) Do you disagree that this isn't opportunist? Do you think other players, who have posted less and without reasons, are less scummy than me despite less activity?
1. If you look at my interactions you'll see that after I found out about the Posting Restriction I just stopped caring about D_V's posts completely. Then nearly 300 posts later D_V makes a truly terrible case. The reason why D_V is on ignore is for the same reason why I put Sepiriel on ignore, and jskura on ignore. These are players who for one reason or another are not solving the game. In any fashion. Sepiriel was demonstratably lying. jskura was deliberatly not trying to solve the game and was being called out on it. D_V has a posting restriction that makes his posts completely unreliable.
2. This is a weird question. Nacho and tom has already been answered. You I've also already explained. Leans scum is just that: leans scum. I'd rather lynch people in my scum pile.
3. Of course I disagree that it' opportunistic. And ironically enough I've actually inadvertently answered this question.
The emoticon thing, along with a general carefulness was a behavioral read, but an honest reading of your previous games proved those were not tells for either alignment.
I'm not going to push you for an answer because I accept your reason for not providing one, but I was asking for the same reason you are (seeking further confirmation of a behavioural read).
I dont need you to town clear me on day one Ghosting. That's not a concern of mine. Id much rather you hunt scum. If I become a focal point down the line you can read Classic or Predator to see how my behavior lines up.
I feel as though finding players you think are town in addition to players you think are scum are equally important. It's fine if you disagree, but I was under the impression this is perfectly acceptable and beneficial. If I can confidently postulate that you are town, I don't have to worry (as much) that you are scum.
I want to know who is scum. Knowing who is town is NOT equally important. Would you rather the mod told you the identity of 2 scum players or 2 town players? The difference in value there is not close.
Do you not like that I pushed Iabm specifically, or how I went about it? If the latter, do you disagree with all of my points? How do you feel about him continuing to reiterate how scummy my OoG obligations and updating everyone are? If the former, can you elaborate?
I dont like how you say im more scummy, based on what?
I don't think anyone likes being called scummy, lol.
I provided a pretty good explanation here:
I have the night off (for once, finally...), so I'll be going into more detail, but for now I have Tapping as less town and more scummy, but mostly in the middle. His play reminds me a LOT of my town play when I started playing Mafia, but the fact he is pushing so hard for everyone's town/scum reads without providing his own first screams cautious scum play to me (not wanting to post a list that disagrees with what most people like, as to make it easier to agree, buddy with certain players, and find/build a train based on what most people agree with). However, I have done that before as town, so I am not fully convinced. Additionally, he said that Tom is "confirmed scum" based on his behaviour. Nobody is confirmed scum, and Tom's behaviour might be annoying to TS, but he even says that this is normal of town Tom, yet still calls it scummy. This kind of behaviour is only detrimental to the town. Calling Tom a low hanging fruit that can easily be lynched at any point sounds...very opportunist. Like, it's okay guys, let's focus on anyone else, then later we can get Tom. Also, I started doing a quick one and have seen a LOT of him asking players who they think is town/scum, which is usually a bad sign. With all of that in mind, his eagerness could be town trying to scum hunt. Like I said, I've done this before, and have been called out for it in the past. Hence me wanting to do a comprehensive reread of him. I think everyone would be interested in seeing a diagram of his opinions/votes.
Why is Tom not scum, need concrete reasoning, nothing about gut or feelings. Thanks old sport!
Didn't I say why in the same post the reasoning for you is provided? Feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I did, and it wasn't just a gut read.
I want to know who is scum. Knowing who is town is NOT equally important. Would you rather the mod told you the identity of 2 scum players or 2 town players? The difference in value there is not close.
I agree that it isn't equally important, in the hypothetical situation you provided the identity of 2 scum players would always be superior. However, we are not being given identities, and we are able to both scum hunt and town...hunt? If that would be the word you use, lol. For reference, here's the line of thinking, from MafiaScum's beginner's guide to being awesome at Mafia.
Learn to identify Townies as well as scum.
Scumhunting is hyped up pretty well, but being able to Townhunt is fairly close behind in terms of importance. For obvious reasons, you don't want to lynch someone you have identified as Town. In addition, as you accumulate Town reads you can begin to lynch and argue from process of elimination. As long as your Town reads are accurate, process of elimination is one of the scariest things you can do to scum - now they not only have to look Town (which is already difficult for them), but they have to look more Town than others in order to evade your suspicion.
Of course, this leaves the question of how to identify Townies. This comes with the same experience described earlier when scumhunting was discussed.
D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game.
At this point I'm convinced you are scum. Because there is no way a townie would miss this this many times and keep saying I am misrepresenting.
Quote from RobRoy »
Is it your ability that is doing this? If not, why are you sure that it is the votes themselves that are being redirected, and not just the display of the votes?
We haven't lynched anyone, and until we do, or someone claims, we won't know for sure that putting a majority of votes on Jobie will actually lynch imabusinessman and not Jobie.
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
Wow /barn this
If this isnt IABMs town game then bravo.
Do you have a fetish for him or something is that it?
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the fact that Tom went from 100% scum to possibly town in Ghosting's eyes. Even if I believed Taredas said something to the lines of you can't speak of it, that still shouldn't change the alignment. The only difference would be Ghosting would use his actual posts to lynch Tom. I admit I don't like IMAB's OoG shenanigans and would argue that it is likely illegal, I don't see that as being alignment indicative.
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
If I think I have proof that makes you scum then I will ride that ignoring all play and everything else. Why would information not change ones opinion on alignment?
D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game.
At this point I'm convinced you are scum. Because there is no way a townie would miss this this many times and keep saying I am misrepresenting.
Quote from RobRoy »
Is it your ability that is doing this? If not, why are you sure that it is the votes themselves that are being redirected, and not just the display of the votes?
We haven't lynched anyone, and until we do, or someone claims, we won't know for sure that putting a majority of votes on Jobie will actually lynch imabusinessman and not Jobie.
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
Wow /barn this
If this isnt IABMs town game then bravo.
Do you have a fetish for him or something is that it?
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the fact that Tom went from 100% scum to possibly town in Ghosting's eyes. Even if I believed Taredas said something to the lines of you can't speak of it, that still shouldn't change the alignment. The only difference would be Ghosting would use his actual posts to lynch Tom. I admit I don't like IMAB's OoG shenanigans and would argue that it is likely illegal, I don't see that as being alignment indicative.
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
If I think I have proof that makes you scum then I will ride that ignoring all play and everything else. Why would information not change ones opinion on alignment?
DV refuses to respond to my points for what, the fifth time now. Ill be a good sport and post it AGAIN. You said you dont interrogate liars...yet you claim IABM is lying and you are pursuing him vigilantly. You also claimed Hans is lying, but refuse to engagae him on the lie that you claim to have inside info about (day one, two). This is what we call an inconsistency in logic and it shows opportunistic intentions.
EBOWDP: The above quotes by Iamb didn't show up in my reply, but he quoted the posts I listed in response to me asking for the absurd amount of times I've noted my lack of activity, not including anything from the past three days (as I commented, they were all within 3 days, and the last one wasn't even relevant).
Do you not like that I pushed Iabm specifically, or how I went about it? If the latter, do you disagree with all of my points? How do you feel about him continuing to reiterate how scummy my OoG obligations and updating everyone are? If the former, can you elaborate?
I dont like how you say im more scummy, based on what?
I don't think anyone likes being called scummy, lol.
I didnt like how you went about it. I encourage you to go after hom if you feel he is scum, but the push looks bad, especially in light of his response. I think IABMs points about you posting busy work are weak but they remind me of his play in Classic. I think you genuinely want to participate.
I have a meta of going after people who suspect me and I think it's a great strategy to take them to task. All of my games are town games, so I can argue against those folks from a position of strength.
DV refuses to respond to my points for what, the fifth time now. Ill be a good sport and post it AGAIN. You said you dont interrogate liars...yet you claim IABM is lying and you are pursuing him vigilantly. You also claimed Hans is lying, but refuse to engagae him on the lie that you claim to have inside info about (day one, two). This is what we call an inconsistency in logic and it shows opportunistic intentions.
Its not the second day its just a fact. I don't really think hes lying, it just doesn't work as he thinks it does.
Do you or do you not admit that businessman is lying. You have been in this thread as much as anyone.
Do you get that I am not arguing that I am changing my avatar but that I did not change it multiple times?
I want a yes or no. I am tired of you and businessman misrepresenting this argument.
I am fairly confident you are town/beneficial to town because of the mysterious voices you hear. I don't want you to confirm this, but I think the voice you hear is Prophylaxis.
GJ's first mention of a voice was in 130, and Proph didn't die until 252. Seems unlikely.
Wait what? Hunt said he will be posting soon so in anticipation of that I asked for his ideas and reasoning on possible scum. How is that busy work? Since when is it a bad thing to prod a less active player to prodyce reads?
You didn't ask him for an opinion on a specific person or issue. What happened is that he said "guyz I'll produce content later" and you responded with "hay can you include content?". It was a meaningless post.
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
That's... really not how that works. A vote on Anak would redirect to Bur. If you want Ghosting's number to show up, you'd vote... huh. Yourself. Yeah, that might not be a good idea.
Hmm. Will be interesting to see what happens with the votecount when we get a replacement for Darth Melvin.
I am fairly confident you are town/beneficial to town because of the mysterious voices you hear. I don't want you to confirm this, but I think the voice you hear is Prophylaxis.
GJ's first mention of a voice was in 130, and Proph didn't die until 252. Seems unlikely.
Wait what? Hunt said he will be posting soon so in anticipation of that I asked for his ideas and reasoning on possible scum. How is that busy work? Since when is it a bad thing to prod a less active player to prodyce reads?
You didn't ask him for an opinion on a specific person or issue. What happened is that he said "guyz I'll produce content later" and you responded with "hay can you include content?". It was a meaningless post.
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
That's... really not how that works. A vote on Anak would redirect to Bur. If you want Ghosting's number to show up, you'd vote... huh. Yourself. Yeah, that might not be a good idea.
Hmm. Will be interesting to see what happens with the votecount when we get a replacement for Darth Melvin.
Once Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal I thought through how things would work out best. Given that this is mindscrew Id like to use his ability as the failsafe. Thoughts?
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
Once Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal I thought through how things would work out best. Given that this is mindscrew Id like to use his ability as the failsafe. Thoughts?
That doesn't add up. Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal in 546 - well before our discussion, and especially before 606, where you were still drumming up support for using his ability this day, and not as a failsafe. In other words, what you are saying cannot be true, and you still haven't acknowledged that you tried to dodge the subject entirely after 616.
FoS: TappingStones - votes are confusing right now.
Slammed at work and going out of town this weekend.
Bottom of page 12 but I should be able to post enough to avoid prod.
I like necargs response to my question. TS was the aggressor and normally town is the proactive one. I asked him the question because I came to a different conclusion. I think since it's day 1, no one knows anything for sure so the town vs town dwindled out instead of ramping up (his conclusion).
Im interested in your proof ghosting.
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
Once Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal I thought through how things would work out best. Given that this is mindscrew Id like to use his ability as the failsafe. Thoughts?
That doesn't add up. Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal in 546 - well before our discussion, and especially before 606, where you were still drumming up support for using his ability this day, and not as a failsafe. In other words, what you are saying cannot be true, and you still haven't acknowledged that you tried to dodge the subject entirely after 616.
FoS: TappingStones - votes are confusing right now.
Just my slight comment if you dislike TS you have to dislike Businessman those two are joined at the hip.
To make this clear as well I'm for lynching either TS or Business I don't care which.
TS's play has gotten increasingly worse and refuses to acknowledge his misrepresentation and keeps claiming I am misrepresenting him.
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
I understand that a large part of the reason you aren't scumhunting is because you are aware of most the setup and thus could confirm claims and it wouldn't be fun and Tar probably didn't allow you to play like that anyways. My issue is the transparency about what you've told us so far: I believe you when you say that you can give us a balanced, one-shot ability of whatever you used and I believe that the Heart/Mind/Soul offer likely exists.
I know that your win condition isn't survival; if that was the case, you wouldn't be posting or making yourself a threat to the scum at all. If your win condition was something as simple as "harvest X amount of souls", don't think that you would be approaching it in the way you are, I think you would have been much more straight-forward and upfront about the terms and conditions of the bargain.
Right now, I'm guessing that you're playing the role of God in Mind Screw: the setup knowledge is your omniscience, the ability to give a player any power you'd like is omnipotence, and the request for heart, mind, or soul is a phrase out of the bible. The win condition that makes the MOST sense to me is you being a sort of cult leader that recruits via souls, loses if you don't get enough souls and can only get souls from townies. If you'd like to dispel that particular notion, I need more transparency which I'm sure can be provided.
Is this because you don't believe him to be town, or that he was saying negative things about you? Also, do you think that he is not posting pretty cases because he doesn't want to, or can't? And you know he is neutral how?
@KJ You bring up some good points about Nacho and reasoning to distrust him, but with his ability being confirmable, is that your preferred course of action for the day? If so, who should he use it on?
I don't trust him because it doesn't make sense for a role who knows every role in the game to have the ability to townside. The assertion that I don't trust him because he's saying negative things about me is... dumb.
I am currently erring on the side of trusting him because his current offer (get the abilities of your wildest dreams in exchange for a negligible cost) is one of those things that sound too good to be true.
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
I understand that a large part of the reason you aren't scumhunting is because you are aware of most the setup and thus could confirm claims and it wouldn't be fun and Tar probably didn't allow you to play like that anyways. My issue is the transparency about what you've told us so far: I believe you when you say that you can give us a balanced, one-shot ability of whatever you used and I believe that the Heart/Mind/Soul offer likely exists.
I know that your win condition isn't survival; if that was the case, you wouldn't be posting or making yourself a threat to the scum at all. If your win condition was something as simple as "harvest X amount of souls", don't think that you would be approaching it in the way you are, I think you would have been much more straight-forward and upfront about the terms and conditions of the bargain.
Right now, I'm guessing that you're playing the role of God or Satan in Mind Screw: the setup knowledge is your omniscience, the ability to give a player any power you'd like is omnipotence, and the request for heart, mind, or soul is a phrase out of the bible. The win condition that makes the MOST sense to me is you being a sort of cult leader that recruits via souls, loses if you don't get enough souls and can only get souls from townies. If you'd like to dispel that particular notion, I need more transparency which I'm sure can be provided.
Is this because you don't believe him to be town, or that he was saying negative things about you? Also, do you think that he is not posting pretty cases because he doesn't want to, or can't? And you know he is neutral how?
@KJ You bring up some good points about Nacho and reasoning to distrust him, but with his ability being confirmable, is that your preferred course of action for the day? If so, who should he use it on?
I don't trust him because it doesn't make sense for a role who knows every role in the game to have the ability to townside. The assertion that I don't trust him because he's saying negative things about me is... dumb.
I am currently erring on the side of trusting him because his current offer (get the abilities of your wildest dreams in exchange for a negligible cost) is one of those things that sound too good to be true.
im honestly kind of at a loss with where to go other than tapping. like, if you people really arent gonna listen to me i dont feel particularly strongly about anyone else.
Why would you give up your push entirely when it wasn't gaining any traction as opposed to just approaching it from a different angle?
I've also lost the my grasp of your scum!TS case - is your main point that his anger this game isn't genuine, or has your case evolved since I last paid close attention to it?
So, I'm going to revisit Tom vs. TS
The whole thing started before post 100 and is the majority of the thread.
I don't think they're on the same team. Normally a town v town argument is quite heated and lasts a long while. Yet, with this game, the fight has generally died down and it hasn't been as heated as I've seen these fights. I've seen fights infinitely more heated and last much longer than 10 pages. This isn't of that same caliber. I would say that it might just be calmer people, but even that doesn't make sense as TS's fights, even with Tom before, have been much more extensive and exhaustive. This isn't. It's a bit late, and I need to go to bed, but I think that we should look at Tom and TS's content apart from their scuffles first.
Also, did I mention that I have debate like every weekend? Because I do and that eats actually all of my time.
For one, I don't believe that every town versus town fight will look a certain way or every scum versus scum fight will look a certain way: there are a ton of factors that goes into what starts a fight based on who is fighting, why they're fighting, and their history with one another.
In this particular scenario, this is TS and Tom's third fight of a similar nature - it doesn't at all surprise me that the fight would lose its bite early.
Damn, messed it up a second time lol. Just got out of my physics midterm so quickly updating vote before math. Still just waiting on Taredas to reply. I assure everyone that the evidence will most likely have him lynched today.
Vote: TappingStones.
@Ghosting-I have astrange feeling about the voting system. Especially considering you (and i) think Tom is scum, and Tom changed the numbers. Dont you think this will be a mondscrew? Im pretty sure I will grt lynched if enough people vote for me. Id rather we test this another way.
If any player is accidentally lynched thanks to votecount weirdness, I'll automatically govern. If we do not know who is lynched when Twilight comes, I'll automatically govern. Lynching the wrong person won't be a problem as long as I'm alive.
@Rob: (First of all, if you want me to respond to something, you better phrase it like a question or I don't realise someone wants me to respond to it.)
My townread on Nacho has waned after that and has strengthened my want to see Nacho prove his ability. (I especially disliked his #309, which sounds to me as an attempt to avoid having to govern anyone.)
Interesting.
How many days do you think I could get away with not governing anyone if I claimed the ability to govern and publicly reveal alignment in my first post?
Did my #309 in any way suggest that I wouldn't be governing period, or did it suggest that I would not govern for the sake of governing?
This behavior though is strikingly different. While still in your face and aggressive, this play doesn't waffle to the extent that it has this game.
This game he has focused largely on a couple people, who aren't even truly in the game. When questioned this game he has been dismissive while creating no case, and not even a true argument about his said claims.
Furthermore, when pressured he retreated out even to the point where he threw his own temper tantrum.
He also has directly lied this game about little old friendly me. Curious indeed.
If I was given any sort of kill he would be my first and only target.
I agree that he has waffled more in this game than he did in Classic, but I don't think that difference is significant: IMAB has has one, two posts in this game where he didn't have definitive thoughts on the game, but he got out of that funk pretty instantly.
The majority of IMAB's focus has been on me, you, Azrael. I am obviously in the game, no real point there. You are additionally obviously in the game: you signed up in the beginning, you clearly have a role, you are in the game. Azrael is the most debatable of these three but he obviously has an influence of some sort + IMAB's focus on him has been the most short-lived, so I don't believe this point holds much significance.
As for IMAB lying about the game, he did. I don't see the advantage he gains as scum about lying about you changing your avatar though, so it's not a significant thought there.
i said im ride or die with DV, and imab has responded terribly. unvote, vote: jobie (to redirect to imab)
i guess i sit here and wait to destroy whatever terrible argument ghosting has. if i even need to.
What is scummy about IMAB's response to DV?
I don't disagree that it wasn't a strong rebuttal, I don't disagree with the DV townread at this point, but I don't see IMAB as scum in any way whatsoever.
I also like easy breezy tom more than cranky tom :/
Tom, could you explain your ride or die DV read a little more? It stood out the first time you said that and I meant to ask you about it, but forgot until now.
sure, though ive also said its stupid
DV is not on the playerlist and cannot receive votes. this makes me inclined to townread because this is pretty broken for scum.
the more important part, to me, is the posting restriction.
i believe that DV has been told to post like this. i mean, maybe he made it up i guess. but what i see is him trying to post content in spite of it, not retreating into it to avoid putting himself out there. so yeah, its real.
now a posting restriction could have any number of purposes in a game like this. but one of the side effects of it is that it is easier to hide.
i get that this is mindscrew, and mod gaming is stupid.
but do you really believe that tare created a scum role and gave it TWO ways to hide?
id believe that DV was neutral, but no way hes scum.
I don't believe that post restrictions are given to make it "easier to hide"; they are normally given to make it harder to communicate, which is usually a handicap for either faction. I see your point with DV missing from the list, but I don't find it as significant as you do: it seems he can still be voted, we know he signed up, there's not a gamebreaking advantage given to him as a result of that.
That being said, I like the conviction in his IMAB push: his frustration and effort to get other players to engage in their arguments seems pretty town.
@IABM-I would be ok with Nacho using the reveal ability on Bur today but I don't necessarily want to lynch him. Bur has gotten killed early in just about every game I've seen him play in. He's in the running with Huntzilla for most mislynched player. I have a sub goal of finding out how to read him.
@Nacho-I agree that we shouldn't use the reveal on someone who is overtly towny but why not scummy? Don't we want to find scum? That logic doesn't jive with me.
@Ghosting-Any information from the mod?
@ALL-I have a feeling this vote count thing has another trick to it. In any even we should as a group try to compile a list of likely scum and start working forward from there.
If I have a scumread on someone, I would rather see them dead than waste a lynch copping them: confirming possibly mislynches as town or catching scum that wouldn't get lynched in a normal situation is far more beneficial than revealing obvious town as town or revealing very likely scum as scum. Make sense?
welp. im just gonna go ahead and put my vote back where it belongs.
0% chance he actually thinks DV is scum.
look at the language in the post right above this one.
"Now how exactly does that look D_V?"
"It doesn't come across particularly townie to put it bluntly."
he just cant resist telling him why he looks scummy, but hes absolutely talking to town here.
oh yeah, he accidentally admitted that he knew i wasnt scum and decided to ignore me instead of explaining why i was neutral.
well ill tell you why. he has a genuine scumread on me but knows im not on his team.
its a rough slip, but he won't make that mistake again next time he's scum.
score a win for me always looking scummy to some people.
unvote, vote: robroy>tappingstones
Both of those quotes are stylistic tells, not scum slip.
I don't understand where he "accidently admitted that he knew I wasn't scum", and it doesn't make sense for him to have a genuine scumread on you as scum.
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
Once Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal I thought through how things would work out best. Given that this is mindscrew Id like to use his ability as the failsafe. Thoughts?
That doesn't add up. Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal in 546 - well before our discussion, and especially before 606, where you were still drumming up support for using his ability this day, and not as a failsafe. In other words, what you are saying cannot be true, and you still haven't acknowledged that you tried to dodge the subject entirely after 616.
FoS: TappingStones - votes are confusing right now.
Getting sick of these misreps...
As I ALREADY said I thought about it AFTER Nacho confirmed. I have NEVER tried to dodge the subject. I have in fact wanted to talk about this subject aggressively. To say otherwise is an outright lie.
Is that actually what he's accusing you of? I thought it was a meta argument, combined with some bragging.
Burden of Proficiency at its roots is a meta argument, whether that meta is gained from reputation or experience. The core of his argument is that I, as town, would be playing better and would recognize him as town. The bragging he did with regards to other games was meant to demonstrate that his line of logic was a valid one.
Taredas did in fact reply to me. I will not be posting the information my accusations were based on, and they will not affect my read on him in any way. I'm allowed to explain this after the game is over, but not until then. It isn't related to any ability or anything and will make a lot of sense when explained. Please treat it as though it did not happen and know that I apologise for introducing the point before messaging Tar in the first place.
I can't say I think this is the approach scum takes to a scumread: for one, all of this would have to be completely faked (as scum, he knows Tom's alignment, more likely than not). Secondly, he would have to be a creative enough scum player in order to pretend that he has some sort of 100% read based on another game and then drop it immediately after; I don't think he has the experience for the play like that and he doesn't read like the type of player to attempt something like that in the first place (his language is very genuine and straightforward; I'd imagine as scum, he'd play it straight unless heavily coached).
Just so my ideas are out in the open, I wouldnt mind revealing on Bur or Hunt (they are often mislynched and Id prefer that doesnt happen here), Necarg and Hans (self confessed that they are bad at and hate day ones), possibly Hawk because I am null on him, DOTA if we dont get any more posts from him.
Hawk is the player I would most like to reveal: he's a strong player when his head's in the game and thus would regret mislynching, but his head is nowhere in the game and I'd love to see whether it was due to time restraints or a change in alignment.
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
Sure. It consists of:
- people Nacho is willing to Govern.
I've explained this before, but I do not agree that Nacho should allow the town to dictate his decision. If we have town!Nacho, then any decision he makes - right or wrong - is 100% intended to help the town, and I'd rather trust that than a decision made by the general public. If we have scum!Nacho, then I want to get all the reads I can from him to try to nail him, and letting him subordinate himself to the town is a good way to avoid responsibility.
Finally, we need to remember that using Nacho's ability will use up the town's lynch for the day. That lynch - who is willing to see who dead - is one of our main tools for determining the alignment of our fellows. I believe that having that vote not be for a death, but instead for a reveal, will make people more cavalier about their decisions, and mean that we can't trust reads nearly as much as we would otherwise.
There are still circumstances where I'd be happy to see Nacho use his ability - for example, if we guess wrong on the displaced votes, and end up lynching the wrong person - but I want the decision to be specifically Nacho's.
For the record, I was never planning on governing just because "the town told me to" - the strongest reason it seems people want me to govern is to "prove myself", which is a sentiment that I find dumb because it's obvious I'm not lying my ability and won't make it longer than three days without demonstrating that ability. I am planning on probably governing today's lynch because 1) I don't have any particularly strong scum reads as of this post, and 2) I think that this game has a couple of strong town personalities clashing and it would be extremely beneficial to diffuse some of that clashing with some public investigations.
I also had worries that scum had a Godfather-esque counter to my ability, and while I am not convinced there isn't a Godfather of some sort in the game (this is something that shouldn't be worried about for 5 Days minimum), I am convinced the main purpose of my role is to counter the weird lynching numbers business and thus am pretty confident scum don't have an active counter to my role in addition to that.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
If I was scum with Necarg and forced to govern, then I would be able to distance from him and govern his lynch anyways, meaning that it would take town two days to lynch a scummy scum player instead of one and giving scum two kills in response instead of just one. If I was scum with Necarg and given free choice, then I would have to develop a townread on Necarg in order to defend him, which is far more informative and would be much more likely to lead to two scum instead of one. If I am scum, I want to use my ability every day - it would give nothing but towncred, and it would allow me to delay my scumbuddy's lynched whenever I pleased.
Man I hate when you attack people for out of game stuff. I'd almost rather lose. It's just so scummy.
Not, like, mafia scummy. Like Donald Trump scummy.
I don't think attacking someone for making excuses instead of posting is a particularly egregious attack.
@Killjoy: I am going to respond to the bulk of your argument in a paragraph, let me know if I'm missing anything:
1) I find your "Overly Helpful" charge ridiculous because the logic it's based on is shaky. The lines you draw between "helpful" and "overly helpful" are arbitrary (for example: posting rules of past Mind Screws is OK, posting links and rules is NOT), and your attack on me for being overly helpful is an attack on me as a person, not my play this game (which is not to say that your attacks are out of line or personal, just that you're attacking me for being me). You say that what I do isn't what most people do: I'm not most people.
2) I don't understand what's scummy about my setup speculation. This is a very weird setup, and yes, there is merit in discussing a setup when it is abnormal. You've drawn an arbitrary line that states that I can't ask others to share their thoughts re: setup; I can only share my own thoughts. I find that arbitrary. I have not derailed the game in any way with my speculation, which is a fact you seem to acknowledge. I have not been using setup spec as a substitution for actual content, which you seem to acknowledge.
Quote from "Killjoy" »
[quote]
Also I wanted to know if you could pardon youself. Can you?
Damn. There are witnesses so D_V changes his story to that he never changed his avatar at all to he only changed it once! Looks like D_V is taking his cues from George Orwell's 1984. Next he'll tell us that he's never changed his avatar at all and it's always been the way it is now just like how we've always been at war with Eastasia...
To the best of my knowledge, DV's argument was that you were lying about him changing his avatar multiple times, not that he changed it at all. I am not sure why DV as scum would lie about something so innocuous as changing his avatar, and I only remember one avatar change (stick figure to smile). Do you remember others?
Both Rod Serling and Taredas are in the game. You claimed they were not and voted people and tried to start a wagon on them for this very reason! They were never in the game.
What IMAB meant by "out of the game" was that they weren't participating in posting: thus the vote would be on someone who couldn't fight back, and thus the vote would be unlikely to hit scum. He didn't mean that they weren't on the playerlist.
I'll refer to you with "they" henceforth so I won't use wrong pronoun. Happy? (And yes, I read your post. I remembered that I used wrong gender pronoun, but didn't remember what pronoun I used and I was too lazy to check.)
no, not happy. i just said to use he. if you can remember "they", you can remember "he" so do it. obviously this is something that personally affects me in some way, or i never would have cared to correct you in the first place. so if you want me to get off your back, do it right. im sure you wont have any trouble remembering me correcting you three times in a row.
Tom, could you explain your ride or die DV read a little more? It stood out the first time you said that and I meant to ask you about it, but forgot until now.
And also in the pronoun-related discussion: Bur, are you a she or a he? I've had you in my mind as a he this whole time so if I'm wrong on that front would like to right it ASAP.
#2 I don't recall much Anak has done in this game. Instead, I do remember what GJ has done in this game and I don't like it. For example, he mentioned that he has scum reads on me, Necarg and Ghosting and then proceeds to do nothing about them. Nothing. Not voting, not asking questions. Plain nothing. (And this is not how I expect town!GJ to act.)
I...don't actually think you have a town game on mine in recent memory to really draw from. I was relatively passive in Invitational/XKCD mafia day 1, ***** like that.
Who's your top scum read?
I don't know. Nobody is really popping out to me right now. Ghosting's interaction hasn't made me feel the town, and Tom still is kind of eh. Probably Tom if you asked me right now, but it isn't a slam dunk. Ghosting would be a close second. IMAB is someone I am surprised isn't picking up more town reads.
What made you think of the theory that Tar kills of people randomly if it looks like there won't be a wagon going on?
In games of past, my ally has told me about an experience were the mod was a weird type of variant that had some sort of unlisted rule that said if a lynch didn't occur by an unlisted deadline, someone would die. I could dig deeper if I wanted to, but it was just a theory, and might explain Proph's random disappearance.
Quote from Bur »
#2 There's difference between not doing anything by inactivity and not doing anything but still making fluff posts. (And GJ is one of the players in this game I have lots of experience with.)
That's weird. Because if you knew me at all, you would know in larger games, I am pretty passive the first day or two.
Quote from IMAB »
@Gentleman Johnny
Would you be willing to lynch Bur?
At this point, no. I am seeing a stark contrast in Bur's scum game from Drunk Trackers. He seems much more invested in this game than he does as scum, so I am feeling better about him as town.
@DV: I got a question for you: Do you know what shard we are in currently?
Dunno. You felt more active in Invitational. In this game, I just get the feeling that you are doing nothing. In invitational, you were grilling Iso and showed inquisitive mindset early D1. (And I'm not talking about the frequency of your posts, but the content in them.)
I see no point in interacting with D_V. He's not fully in control of his own posts. As exemplified already he's making comments that are inaccurate at best and false at worse. But if he doesn't have full control over his posts then there's very little that can be done. And if he's faking his Post Restriction there's literally nothing we can do about it since our votes on him don't matter at this juncture. I'll take him off ignore on the next day but the things he's saying today are not reliable.
@7hawk77
@DoTArchon
@RobRoy
@Anaklusmos
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
I agree with RobRoy, I was against Nacho being forced into using his ability in Classic and I'm against it here.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
Okay, let's compare. You're positing a hypothetical where Nacho is scum, and where we are pushing scum!Necarg as the lynch choice.
Case 1: scum!Nacho has agreed in advance to a governing. He casually whistles while pardoning scum!Necarg. Necarg lives for an extra day, and we get literally no information on Nacho.
Case 2: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's worth saving Necarg. Necarg lives for an additional day, and Nacho is forced to justify his decision to us... hopefully leading to his eventual lynch.
Case 3: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's not worth saving Necarg. Necarg dies, any potential night actions he has die with him, and our Day 3 lynch isn't spoken for.
While an argument can be made as to whether we would prefer Case 2 or Case 3, either is strictly better than Case 1. Arguments?
My plan - as you refer to it - is to try to lynch scum. Right now I think my best shot at that is 7hawk77, and I'm planning to put together a case on him today. I'm kind of hoping to get an answer on his history with Tom before then, but not enough to delay posting the attack once it's ready. If he gets run up for a lynch, then Nacho can make his pardon decision then.
By the way, my last completed game had Nacho as governor and he, IABM and I crushed the scum without ever having to use the ability, so Im well aware that preceding with.lynches is fine, my only worry is that there is something screwy with the votes.
Yeah, lynching the wrong person as a result of the displaced votes is a situation where I would likely support a Governing, as I mentioned in 607. Still want it to be Nacho's decision, though.
Did you read my #365? Would you mind telling me how we could have scum!Nacho with governor powers?
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur - Hi!
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
This post seems a little off. I have some questions/comments on this.
1) You say that Hawk had some posts that felt natural, but you give him a Null. Are natural posts not a towntell to you? Further, you specify for several people that you can't remember them doing things (Null)... so if natural posts IS a towntell for you, how does natural posts + can't remember content only end as null?
7)I don't recall lack of active participation being a scumtell for GJ, especially early D1. I've always got the impression that he's kinda like me in that no matter what is alignment he would prefer to participate than to not.
8)You say he's buddying with TS... but have him Null. Is Town buddying with Town a thing? Buddying is typically a scum thing and therefore the Null judgment on him seems weird.
14) "Not impressed" def has negative connotation... but again you have him Null. Explain?
16) Why is Necarg lean scum for you're lack of being impressed with him if leuko is Null for the same thing?
19) Why is he Null to Lean town though? You don't specify.
1) Natural posts make me think that the player is bit more likely town than scum, but I prefer looking at the content of one's post more than the language associated. (Especially since "natural posts" tell ended up biting me in the butt in FF Mafia last summer several times.)
7) That's not the point. The point is the lack of engagement in this game and how I feel that he's not even interested in this game.
8) I admit buddying is something scum are more likely to do than town, now that you mention it... Anyways, I was thinking about his content in that post and just meant to say that I don't really remember anything meaningful interesting content from him.
14) "Not impressed" is neutral expression AFAIK...?
16) How I feel about Necargs posts: Null, null, null, scummy, null, null...
How I feel about leuko's posts: Null, null, null, null, still null...
19) I recall there was something about that Tom-TS slapfight that made me think "This might be town!TS", but I don't recall it right now. I can try to look it up at some other time, when it's not 2AM.
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
@Everyone: Would it be okay for everyone who can hear voices/feel presences/anything involving spirits/ghosts/invisibility to let us know ONLY that. No more information is necessary, but I think it would be very beneficial to town. Proph is a town player who was mysteriously "killed". If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, let me know, I just have a theory that, with this information, could be largely beneficial to town. If this is obviously a bad idea and I'm just missing the reason, feel free to inform me, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
I hear no voices, feel no presences etc. in my head, thankfully.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
When Hans first claimed that he was responsible for it being Day 2, you automatically assumed that he was lying and wanted to lynch him as a result. Why did you believe that? The only real evidence pointing to him being a liar was him being a liar in general, which means you voting him for lying would be pretty solidly strange.
In your post #151, what were you referring to when you mentioned that Tom said something that was making you doubt your initial read?
Why did Hans become your biggest townread in your post #235?
I'm noting that your scumread on Ghosting is mostly because of his response to your claiming (in that he said that it helped scum). Why do you believe that was scum motivated, considering he didn't leverage that claim into a push on you?
@Bur:
Why were you scumreading Hunt in your #244?
Could you go into a little more detail in your Tom and Killjoy reads? These are the only reads that you seem to have any sort of confidence in, so I'm interested in the specifics as to why.
At that point, I recall I though that I saw signs of Hunt's possible scumtell. I'm not going to elaborate this yet, not until Hunt's "Big catch-up post".
My read on KJ is based on how he has really similar thought than I do. (There's been several instances when reading some posts they've made me want to ask something, but before I've finished my reread KJ has already addressed those points and asked the questions I was interested in.)
My read on Tom is based on how he's sensible and clearly shows signs of trying to solve the game eg. his catch about votes being registered on the next person in the vote count. He's showing that he's actually trying to solve this game, and besides, if he were scum, he could've just kept silent about that and allowed us to lynch someone totally else than we intended.
Enough, or do you want more?
@Ghosting: After scum player flips, what do you think it tells of the people on that players "lean scum" list?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
WTF is this?
1. You've made excuses about being busy on a multitude of occasions. Not just once.
2. In case you weren't paying attention I started off by asking BUR the questions and then it was BUR who was becoming increasingly obstinate. Bur wasn't asking questions, Bur was making statements to which there were several ongoing clarifications and Bur was doing so in an manner of decreasing quality. I'm tempted to say she's actually flailing but I'm still reviewing tracker mafia.
3. Yeah, I'd be down for lynching Nacho. Said so before any player and am the only player saying so. As for tom, he's the player I'm putting the LEAST amount of pressure on because I don't like his play in every game.
4. Hop on whatever wagon is most popular? I'm pretty sure I haven't hopped on ANY wagons that are popular. Ironically that is exactly what it looks like you're trying to do. Since when was "Azrael" a popular wagon? When was Nacho a popular wagon? I didn't vote Tom for reasons previously stated. Called Necarg null when he was under pressure. This is actually the worst statement you've made in your post.
5. Why did I go from Az to Bur? Did you even see that sequence of events? I'm thinking you haven't.
6. No that never happened. I called out Bur not Robroy for wanting to look into you and that was before you made the 4423545 post talking about how you're eventually going to catch up. You can't keep your facts or timing straight.
My reads are in thread for anyone to see and Ive posted multipe times. Getting a little sick of the misrepresentations. Asking others to participate is not scummy. Its in fact the best way for town to win. The more people talk the better. Bizarre try to say Im looking to follow others reads when Ive posted reads on multiple occassions.
There's a general apathy on this sight where people vla, say they are busy, attack the active players until the deadline bears, then all of a sudden people start to play. How about we cut the procrastination and get down to business?
As Ive said already, looking at Tom, Necarg, Bur, Hans, and to a lesser extent Hunt, DOTA, Ghosting, DV.
That's 8 names. Id like to narrow it down. Ive ISO'd Tom, Necarg, Hans, and DV.
Anyone else want to get involved? Some data to present? Things I missed, folks Im wrong about?
Wow /barn this
If this isnt IABMs town game then bravo.
This is an opportunistic question. Play within the game. Your last post to IABM in conjunction with post about Tom going from 100% scum...to town now have rifled you up to near the top of the scum chart.
1. You're welcome to look into this, but you're right. Multiple occasions in the past 2 or 3 days. Before that, I haven't, and as I said, I have a busy life. I came back and have apologised, posted more content. And again, it's been MAYBE 3 days. You had a friend's lung collapse, I'm sure you can sympathise with life interfering with Mafia.
2. So far, what have you determined from Tracker mafia? I look forward to your answer.
3. Okay, and you failed to respond to why I am calling you out for this. You're down to lynch Nacho, but you aren't down to push his case. If you genuinely think he is scum, your job is to convince that of us. That is a huge motivation for town, scum has the opposite: they'll make it so their views are flexible and they don't want to push any cases unless town is doing so.
4. Going to be responding to this when I am out of school tonight, as I would like to have my notes and quotes for reference so my points can be validated. I'm fairly confident I'm right as I just did a quick ISO from my phone and determined that, but I'll make sure to confirm that tonight. I'm 99% sure this is true though. Nacho was a popular scumspect, more so than others, so yes he was "popular" when compared to others.
5. Yes? Hence me noting it...
6. I'd like you to compile a list of the times I've "talked about how I'll catch up" that AREN'T from the past 3-4 days. Again, I have a life. If you can take 6 classes, work 30 hours, plus an internship, plus everything else life entails, while not having internet, I will take your concerns more seriously. Or if your point was actually true, but it's not. You've literally just been repeating that I'm nonstop "promising I'll catch up", when it's been a VERY short period of time. What about the other players who aren't posting? And those who don't even have excuses?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Please act as though what I said didn't happen. I have zero issue explaining when this game is over, but I'm not allowed to until then, in order to keep the game legitimate. That 100% confirmed scum read was a result of the proof which is now null and void. Before that, I had my suspicions because of his interactions with you and how he responded. I now see that he has a very headstrong playstyle and will probably continue to be lynched early if he doesn't change it.
As I've said, it is equally likely you are town and doing this. I used to do the same as well, and it got me lynched more times than I'd like to look back on.
Are you still looking at Tom then? Do you no longer think I'm town then?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
1) His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). Do you think not paying attention to D_V will be beneficial to the town? Do you think dismissing a case because a player is "bad' is beneficial to the town?
2) His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). Can you explain why these players are slightly scummy, and not scum? Can you explain why Nacho is listed as slightly scummy, not scum, but you have confirmed you are very willing to lynch him?
3) His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Do you disagree that this isn't opportunist? Do you think other players, who have posted less and without reasons, are less scummy than me despite less activity?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You are lean scum at the moment, yes. Of course Im looking at Tom but I dont want to lynch myself, you see currently if you want Tom to get votes you have to vote for me. I think there is a non-zero chance that I would get mislynched there as a "mindscrew" element of the game. Hence me wanting to see who actually gets lynched day one.
Again, please don't use my confirmation of Tom as scum in any way. That proof should be treated as though it never existed in the first place, and the ONLY reason he was "100% scum" was because of that proof. I should've waited for Tar to reply before posting it, and that will make total sense in the future, but I don't want to compromise the integrity of the game or have it affect the game in any way when it is 100% null and void at this point.
Also, how is it any less opportunistic of a question than you asking to read a scum game of mine in order to see if my use of emoticons is scummy? You don't think trying to see if someone used emoticons in a scum game in order to provide a "scum tell" is opportunistic? For reference, I wanted to know your age because it would help me label you as town. I will not use your age against you, I promise that. Remember when I said your play reminds me of how I used to play as town? I'm asking because if you are also young (I'm 20 now, but was 14-17 in my earlier Mafia days), it would further convince me that your play is in fact in line with my past play.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@TappingStones: Can you point out what about my interaction with Imab made me go from very town in your eyes to very scummy? Do you disagree that Imab is scummy? Is your opinion at all influenced by my (potentially) changed opinion of you?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the fact that Tom went from 100% scum to possibly town in Ghosting's eyes. Even if I believed Taredas said something to the lines of you can't speak of it, that still shouldn't change the alignment. The only difference would be Ghosting would use his actual posts to lynch Tom. I admit I don't like IMAB's OoG shenanigans and would argue that it is likely illegal, I don't see that as being alignment indicative.
Unvote: whoever I was voting, Vote: Anak redirected to Ghosting.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
1. Hey guys my friend's lung collapsed so I'm taking him to the hospital. Hey sorry I don't have more time, the hospital's internet connection is really terrible. Hey still in the hospital checking on my buddy, will post more soon! I had to drive home and get some things and now I have work will maybe post more later tonight. Sorry I didn't post more I fell asleep and now I have to go to work...
I never did any of that. But that's the sort of thing you've been doing a lot.
2...
3. I was down to push his case. He's been less scummy which is why you see him in my "leans scum" pile and not my "scum" pile. Bur is my top suspect but even then that push is on hold to address point #2.
4. I look forward to you trying to Justify Nacho being a popular scumread in the face of the slew of townreads he was getting.
5. Really? So you mean you actually saw my statement in post 496 about why I wanted to vote Az, saw the explaination that Az cannot be voted, and you literally expected my vote to stay on Azrael? Really? That's what you think I should have done? Because almost immediately after post 496 I saw Bur's fake and lazy T/S list and that seemed to be a much more pressing concern. Speaking of Bur, let me go back to point #3. Bur was also taking a ton of suspicion which I wasn't down with until Bur made post 536. And even after Bur made post 536, It wasn't until she responded poorly that I got suspicious. This also disproves your "hopping on popular wagons" idea because Bur was actually losing attention and not being focused on at the time. But you knew all this. That's why you brought it up, right?
6. People who aren't posting simply aren't posting. They're not "promising to catch up" posting. If you have time to promise to catch up then you have time to contribute content.
Really?
Tom was only 100% scum BECAUSE of something that now is totally irrelevant and I discovered pertains in zero way at all to this game and was a mistake for me to even bring up. It would've been poor sportsmanship for me to use against him even if it was relevant, but it should not at all even exist in this game, ideally. Compare it to a player openly admitting they're scum in real life to you, and then you found out that they weren't talking to you or about the same game. It's hard to think of an example that accurately depicts this, but I will be pretty upset if this isn't excluded from the game, for the sake of the integrity of the game.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
The emoticon thing, along with a general carefulness was a behavioral read, but an honest reading of your previous games proved those were not tells for either alignment.
I dont need you to town clear me on day one Ghosting. That's not a concern of mine. Id much rather you hunt scum. If I become a focal point down the line you can read Classic or Predator to see how my behavior lines up.
I'd love a Necarg lynch but seems Im in the minority...
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I am afraid I am going to have to disagree. I often will read the gamestate on a laptop or phone , but then be unable to make a real post. I like making bigger posts, rather than smaller ones so saying I am going to catch up feels perfectly acceptable.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm not going to push you for an answer because I accept your reason for not providing one, but I was asking for the same reason you are (seeking further confirmation of a behavioural read).
I feel as though finding players you think are town in addition to players you think are scum are equally important. It's fine if you disagree, but I was under the impression this is perfectly acceptable and beneficial. If I can confidently postulate that you are town, I don't have to worry (as much) that you are scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@Ghosting-I dont like how you pushed on IABM. I dont like how you say im more scummy, based on what? I can forgive the 100% debacle. Let's forget about that.
Why is Tom not scum, need concrete reasoning, nothing about gut or feelings. Thanks old sport!
Thank you for your reply and the clarification alongside it. I assume I must have misread (posted from phone, notes and t/s list with reasons are on computer), but I will double check with my notes to further confirm. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this.
I completely disagree for the same reason as GJ. Additionally, I would argue that it's a null point and ends up being WIFOM. Scum could post that they'll catch up to appear like they will, scum could not post they'll catch up to remain unnoticed, town could post it to let everyone know they do want to catch up and aren't just ignoring the game, etc. There's a million reasons for either side to update or not update, and I think it is poor play to try to say otherwise.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
1. If you look at my interactions you'll see that after I found out about the Posting Restriction I just stopped caring about D_V's posts completely. Then nearly 300 posts later D_V makes a truly terrible case. The reason why D_V is on ignore is for the same reason why I put Sepiriel on ignore, and jskura on ignore. These are players who for one reason or another are not solving the game. In any fashion. Sepiriel was demonstratably lying. jskura was deliberatly not trying to solve the game and was being called out on it. D_V has a posting restriction that makes his posts completely unreliable.
2. This is a weird question. Nacho and tom has already been answered. You I've also already explained. Leans scum is just that: leans scum. I'd rather lynch people in my scum pile.
3. Of course I disagree that it' opportunistic. And ironically enough I've actually inadvertently answered this question.
I want to know who is scum. Knowing who is town is NOT equally important. Would you rather the mod told you the identity of 2 scum players or 2 town players? The difference in value there is not close.
Do you not like that I pushed Iabm specifically, or how I went about it? If the latter, do you disagree with all of my points? How do you feel about him continuing to reiterate how scummy my OoG obligations and updating everyone are? If the former, can you elaborate?
I don't think anyone likes being called scummy, lol.
I provided a pretty good explanation here:
Didn't I say why in the same post the reasoning for you is provided? Feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I did, and it wasn't just a gut read.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I agree that it isn't equally important, in the hypothetical situation you provided the identity of 2 scum players would always be superior. However, we are not being given identities, and we are able to both scum hunt and town...hunt? If that would be the word you use, lol. For reference, here's the line of thinking, from MafiaScum's beginner's guide to being awesome at Mafia.
Scumhunting is hyped up pretty well, but being able to Townhunt is fairly close behind in terms of importance. For obvious reasons, you don't want to lynch someone you have identified as Town. In addition, as you accumulate Town reads you can begin to lynch and argue from process of elimination. As long as your Town reads are accurate, process of elimination is one of the scariest things you can do to scum - now they not only have to look Town (which is already difficult for them), but they have to look more Town than others in order to evade your suspicion.
Of course, this leaves the question of how to identify Townies. This comes with the same experience described earlier when scumhunting was discussed.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
X changed their avatar.
And this.
At this point I'm convinced you are scum. Because there is no way a townie would miss this this many times and keep saying I am misrepresenting.
This is a good point. How do we test this?
Do you have a fetish for him or something is that it?
If I think I have proof that makes you scum then I will ride that ignoring all play and everything else. Why would information not change ones opinion on alignment?
#494: 3 days ago
#605: 1 day ago
#646: 2 hours ago, and this isn't even me saying anything about posting later?
Didn't I ask you to include any instances that were from before 3 days ago? You are literally just proving my point.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
DV refuses to respond to my points for what, the fifth time now. Ill be a good sport and post it AGAIN. You said you dont interrogate liars...yet you claim IABM is lying and you are pursuing him vigilantly. You also claimed Hans is lying, but refuse to engagae him on the lie that you claim to have inside info about (day one, two). This is what we call an inconsistency in logic and it shows opportunistic intentions.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I didnt like how you went about it. I encourage you to go after hom if you feel he is scum, but the push looks bad, especially in light of his response. I think IABMs points about you posting busy work are weak but they remind me of his play in Classic. I think you genuinely want to participate.
I have a meta of going after people who suspect me and I think it's a great strategy to take them to task. All of my games are town games, so I can argue against those folks from a position of strength.
Its not the second day its just a fact. I don't really think hes lying, it just doesn't work as he thinks it does.
Do you or do you not admit that businessman is lying. You have been in this thread as much as anyone.
Do you get that I am not arguing that I am changing my avatar but that I did not change it multiple times?
I want a yes or no. I am tired of you and businessman misrepresenting this argument.
GJ's first mention of a voice was in 130, and Proph didn't die until 252. Seems unlikely.
You didn't ask him for an opinion on a specific person or issue. What happened is that he said "guyz I'll produce content later" and you responded with "hay can you include content?". It was a meaningless post.
This is indeed clear. It is also not at all what you were proposing earlier. Your post 606, and our exchange afterwards, very obviously showed that you were looking for someone to reveal - that is, use Nacho's ability on. As of 611, you still seemed to like your plan, calling it "reasonable." My next response was 616, after which you dropped the subject. At what point did you change your mind? Why did you not respond to me to say so?
That's... really not how that works. A vote on Anak would redirect to Bur. If you want Ghosting's number to show up, you'd vote... huh. Yourself. Yeah, that might not be a good idea.
Hmm. Will be interesting to see what happens with the votecount when we get a replacement for Darth Melvin.
Once Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal I thought through how things would work out best. Given that this is mindscrew Id like to use his ability as the failsafe. Thoughts?
That doesn't add up. Nacho confirmed that it would be a mod reveal in 546 - well before our discussion, and especially before 606, where you were still drumming up support for using his ability this day, and not as a failsafe. In other words, what you are saying cannot be true, and you still haven't acknowledged that you tried to dodge the subject entirely after 616.
FoS: TappingStones - votes are confusing right now.
Bottom of page 12 but I should be able to post enough to avoid prod.
I like necargs response to my question. TS was the aggressor and normally town is the proactive one. I asked him the question because I came to a different conclusion. I think since it's day 1, no one knows anything for sure so the town vs town dwindled out instead of ramping up (his conclusion).
Im interested in your proof ghosting.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Sigh. Of course my questions to Hawk started on page 13.
@7hawk77: please respond to my post 618 when you can.
Just my slight comment if you dislike TS you have to dislike Businessman those two are joined at the hip.
To make this clear as well I'm for lynching either TS or Business I don't care which.
TS's play has gotten increasingly worse and refuses to acknowledge his misrepresentation and keeps claiming I am misrepresenting him.
I understand that a large part of the reason you aren't scumhunting is because you are aware of most the setup and thus could confirm claims and it wouldn't be fun and Tar probably didn't allow you to play like that anyways. My issue is the transparency about what you've told us so far: I believe you when you say that you can give us a balanced, one-shot ability of whatever you used and I believe that the Heart/Mind/Soul offer likely exists.
I know that your win condition isn't survival; if that was the case, you wouldn't be posting or making yourself a threat to the scum at all. If your win condition was something as simple as "harvest X amount of souls", don't think that you would be approaching it in the way you are, I think you would have been much more straight-forward and upfront about the terms and conditions of the bargain.
Right now, I'm guessing that you're playing the role of God in Mind Screw: the setup knowledge is your omniscience, the ability to give a player any power you'd like is omnipotence, and the request for heart, mind, or soul is a phrase out of the bible. The win condition that makes the MOST sense to me is you being a sort of cult leader that recruits via souls, loses if you don't get enough souls and can only get souls from townies. If you'd like to dispel that particular notion, I need more transparency which I'm sure can be provided.
I don't trust him because it doesn't make sense for a role who knows every role in the game to have the ability to townside. The assertion that I don't trust him because he's saying negative things about me is... dumb.
I am currently erring on the side of trusting him because his current offer (get the abilities of your wildest dreams in exchange for a negligible cost) is one of those things that sound too good to be true.
I understand that a large part of the reason you aren't scumhunting is because you are aware of most the setup and thus could confirm claims and it wouldn't be fun and Tar probably didn't allow you to play like that anyways. My issue is the transparency about what you've told us so far: I believe you when you say that you can give us a balanced, one-shot ability of whatever you used and I believe that the Heart/Mind/Soul offer likely exists.
I know that your win condition isn't survival; if that was the case, you wouldn't be posting or making yourself a threat to the scum at all. If your win condition was something as simple as "harvest X amount of souls", don't think that you would be approaching it in the way you are, I think you would have been much more straight-forward and upfront about the terms and conditions of the bargain.
Right now, I'm guessing that you're playing the role of God or Satan in Mind Screw: the setup knowledge is your omniscience, the ability to give a player any power you'd like is omnipotence, and the request for heart, mind, or soul is a phrase out of the bible. The win condition that makes the MOST sense to me is you being a sort of cult leader that recruits via souls, loses if you don't get enough souls and can only get souls from townies. If you'd like to dispel that particular notion, I need more transparency which I'm sure can be provided.
I don't trust him because it doesn't make sense for a role who knows every role in the game to have the ability to townside. The assertion that I don't trust him because he's saying negative things about me is... dumb.
I am currently erring on the side of trusting him because his current offer (get the abilities of your wildest dreams in exchange for a negligible cost) is one of those things that sound too good to be true.
This is a boring, easy stance to take; I was hoping you'd have something much better by now.
Why would you give up your push entirely when it wasn't gaining any traction as opposed to just approaching it from a different angle?
I've also lost the my grasp of your scum!TS case - is your main point that his anger this game isn't genuine, or has your case evolved since I last paid close attention to it?
For one, I don't believe that every town versus town fight will look a certain way or every scum versus scum fight will look a certain way: there are a ton of factors that goes into what starts a fight based on who is fighting, why they're fighting, and their history with one another.
In this particular scenario, this is TS and Tom's third fight of a similar nature - it doesn't at all surprise me that the fight would lose its bite early.
No, I can't. I also wouldn't just allow myself to be lynched even if I could, though.
If any player is accidentally lynched thanks to votecount weirdness, I'll automatically govern. If we do not know who is lynched when Twilight comes, I'll automatically govern. Lynching the wrong person won't be a problem as long as I'm alive.
Interesting.
How many days do you think I could get away with not governing anyone if I claimed the ability to govern and publicly reveal alignment in my first post?
Did my #309 in any way suggest that I wouldn't be governing period, or did it suggest that I would not govern for the sake of governing?
I'll likely answer this in my next few posts: focused on catching up now and not much else.
I agree that he has waffled more in this game than he did in Classic, but I don't think that difference is significant: IMAB has has one, two posts in this game where he didn't have definitive thoughts on the game, but he got out of that funk pretty instantly.
The majority of IMAB's focus has been on me, you, Azrael. I am obviously in the game, no real point there. You are additionally obviously in the game: you signed up in the beginning, you clearly have a role, you are in the game. Azrael is the most debatable of these three but he obviously has an influence of some sort + IMAB's focus on him has been the most short-lived, so I don't believe this point holds much significance.
As for IMAB lying about the game, he did. I don't see the advantage he gains as scum about lying about you changing your avatar though, so it's not a significant thought there.
What is scummy about IMAB's response to DV?
I don't disagree that it wasn't a strong rebuttal, I don't disagree with the DV townread at this point, but I don't see IMAB as scum in any way whatsoever.
I also like easy breezy tom more than cranky tom :/
I don't believe that post restrictions are given to make it "easier to hide"; they are normally given to make it harder to communicate, which is usually a handicap for either faction. I see your point with DV missing from the list, but I don't find it as significant as you do: it seems he can still be voted, we know he signed up, there's not a gamebreaking advantage given to him as a result of that.
That being said, I like the conviction in his IMAB push: his frustration and effort to get other players to engage in their arguments seems pretty town.
You realize there's a difference between the Second Day and Day 2, correct?
If I have a scumread on someone, I would rather see them dead than waste a lynch copping them: confirming possibly mislynches as town or catching scum that wouldn't get lynched in a normal situation is far more beneficial than revealing obvious town as town or revealing very likely scum as scum. Make sense?
Both of those quotes are stylistic tells, not scum slip.
I don't understand where he "accidently admitted that he knew I wasn't scum", and it doesn't make sense for him to have a genuine scumread on you as scum.
There is. But it isn't the Day "2" mechanically either.
Getting sick of these misreps...
As I ALREADY said I thought about it AFTER Nacho confirmed. I have NEVER tried to dodge the subject. I have in fact wanted to talk about this subject aggressively. To say otherwise is an outright lie.
UNVOE WHOMEVER, VOTE: ROBROY
To vote Rob Roy you have to vote Necarg.
Please for the love of god start paying attention.
Burden of Proficiency at its roots is a meta argument, whether that meta is gained from reputation or experience. The core of his argument is that I, as town, would be playing better and would recognize him as town. The bragging he did with regards to other games was meant to demonstrate that his line of logic was a valid one.
I can't say I think this is the approach scum takes to a scumread: for one, all of this would have to be completely faked (as scum, he knows Tom's alignment, more likely than not). Secondly, he would have to be a creative enough scum player in order to pretend that he has some sort of 100% read based on another game and then drop it immediately after; I don't think he has the experience for the play like that and he doesn't read like the type of player to attempt something like that in the first place (his language is very genuine and straightforward; I'd imagine as scum, he'd play it straight unless heavily coached).
Hawk is the player I would most like to reveal: he's a strong player when his head's in the game and thus would regret mislynching, but his head is nowhere in the game and I'd love to see whether it was due to time restraints or a change in alignment.
For the record, I was never planning on governing just because "the town told me to" - the strongest reason it seems people want me to govern is to "prove myself", which is a sentiment that I find dumb because it's obvious I'm not lying my ability and won't make it longer than three days without demonstrating that ability. I am planning on probably governing today's lynch because 1) I don't have any particularly strong scum reads as of this post, and 2) I think that this game has a couple of strong town personalities clashing and it would be extremely beneficial to diffuse some of that clashing with some public investigations.
I also had worries that scum had a Godfather-esque counter to my ability, and while I am not convinced there isn't a Godfather of some sort in the game (this is something that shouldn't be worried about for 5 Days minimum), I am convinced the main purpose of my role is to counter the weird lynching numbers business and thus am pretty confident scum don't have an active counter to my role in addition to that.
Does that make sense?
If I was scum with Necarg and forced to govern, then I would be able to distance from him and govern his lynch anyways, meaning that it would take town two days to lynch a scummy scum player instead of one and giving scum two kills in response instead of just one. If I was scum with Necarg and given free choice, then I would have to develop a townread on Necarg in order to defend him, which is far more informative and would be much more likely to lead to two scum instead of one. If I am scum, I want to use my ability every day - it would give nothing but towncred, and it would allow me to delay my scumbuddy's lynched whenever I pleased.
I don't think attacking someone for making excuses instead of posting is a particularly egregious attack.
@Killjoy: I am going to respond to the bulk of your argument in a paragraph, let me know if I'm missing anything:
1) I find your "Overly Helpful" charge ridiculous because the logic it's based on is shaky. The lines you draw between "helpful" and "overly helpful" are arbitrary (for example: posting rules of past Mind Screws is OK, posting links and rules is NOT), and your attack on me for being overly helpful is an attack on me as a person, not my play this game (which is not to say that your attacks are out of line or personal, just that you're attacking me for being me). You say that what I do isn't what most people do: I'm not most people.
2) I don't understand what's scummy about my setup speculation. This is a very weird setup, and yes, there is merit in discussing a setup when it is abnormal. You've drawn an arbitrary line that states that I can't ask others to share their thoughts re: setup; I can only share my own thoughts. I find that arbitrary. I have not derailed the game in any way with my speculation, which is a fact you seem to acknowledge. I have not been using setup spec as a substitution for actual content, which you seem to acknowledge.
No.
To the best of my knowledge, DV's argument was that you were lying about him changing his avatar multiple times, not that he changed it at all. I am not sure why DV as scum would lie about something so innocuous as changing his avatar, and I only remember one avatar change (stick figure to smile). Do you remember others?
What IMAB meant by "out of the game" was that they weren't participating in posting: thus the vote would be on someone who couldn't fight back, and thus the vote would be unlikely to hit scum. He didn't mean that they weren't on the playerlist.
Duly noted.
Using "he" is just fine.
Dunno. You felt more active in Invitational. In this game, I just get the feeling that you are doing nothing. In invitational, you were grilling Iso and showed inquisitive mindset early D1. (And I'm not talking about the frequency of your posts, but the content in them.)
Mind telling why you are against Nacho using his ability? (Quote or something from the Classics is fine.)
Did you read my #365? Would you mind telling me how we could have scum!Nacho with governor powers?
1) Natural posts make me think that the player is bit more likely town than scum, but I prefer looking at the content of one's post more than the language associated. (Especially since "natural posts" tell ended up biting me in the butt in FF Mafia last summer several times.)
7) That's not the point. The point is the lack of engagement in this game and how I feel that he's not even interested in this game.
8) I admit buddying is something scum are more likely to do than town, now that you mention it... Anyways, I was thinking about his content in that post and just meant to say that I don't really remember anything meaningful interesting content from him.
14) "Not impressed" is neutral expression AFAIK...?
16) How I feel about Necargs posts: Null, null, null, scummy, null, null...
How I feel about leuko's posts: Null, null, null, null, still null...
19) I recall there was something about that Tom-TS slapfight that made me think "This might be town!TS", but I don't recall it right now. I can try to look it up at some other time, when it's not 2AM.
Why does that post make IMAB town in your eyes?
I hear no voices, feel no presences etc. in my head, thankfully.
When Hans first claimed that he was responsible for it being Day 2, you automatically assumed that he was lying and wanted to lynch him as a result. Why did you believe that? The only real evidence pointing to him being a liar was him being a liar in general, which means you voting him for lying would be pretty solidly strange.
In your post #151, what were you referring to when you mentioned that Tom said something that was making you doubt your initial read?
Why did Hans become your biggest townread in your post #235?
I'm noting that your scumread on Ghosting is mostly because of his response to your claiming (in that he said that it helped scum). Why do you believe that was scum motivated, considering he didn't leverage that claim into a push on you?
@Bur:
Why were you scumreading Hunt in your #244?
Could you go into a little more detail in your Tom and Killjoy reads? These are the only reads that you seem to have any sort of confidence in, so I'm interested in the specifics as to why.
At that point, I recall I though that I saw signs of Hunt's possible scumtell. I'm not going to elaborate this yet, not until Hunt's "Big catch-up post".
My read on KJ is based on how he has really similar thought than I do. (There's been several instances when reading some posts they've made me want to ask something, but before I've finished my reread KJ has already addressed those points and asked the questions I was interested in.)
My read on Tom is based on how he's sensible and clearly shows signs of trying to solve the game eg. his catch about votes being registered on the next person in the vote count. He's showing that he's actually trying to solve this game, and besides, if he were scum, he could've just kept silent about that and allowed us to lynch someone totally else than we intended.
Enough, or do you want more?
@Ghosting: After scum player flips, what do you think it tells of the people on that players "lean scum" list?