@imab you like OOG stuff. what do you think about ghosting posting in this game, even if it was just to promise catchup, while not posting at all in saw (where he was scum)?
I stopped the tracker re-read to review that game since it was only 2 pages.
His not posting in that game is not relevant since...
1. It could be that this game takes priority. There's not much to discuss in early game and that game never left early game.
2. I think these games are too different to consider meta in addition to that game being too short.
BTW, I had shinen nailed from his first and then second posts and I'm sorry you got quicklynched for Roleplaying. Don't stop doing things like that because it ended poorly that time. Btw, meta reads seem to take exponential effort the longer a game is.
I don't have a strong read of any kind. The editing is either an enforced PR or an effort to hide while still being active, and I don't feel like I have enough to go on either way. I will say, though, that the fact that he's promised content after re-reads and then not followed through is souring me on him. @Necarg: was this you?
1. Not an effort to hide, this is for fun, as I've said before. If this wasn't for fun, I wouldn't do it.
2. Hey, look! Debate and Finals Week!
3. Nope. I do not have the power to delete posts, just edit so far.
@All-Sorry for several posts in a row but I'm usually awake when you folks are sleep, at work, etc. I think we can go forward with Necarg. Who has a problem with voting Necarg now? He has edited some comments (click on Tom's link), it's not substantial and changes nothing. He just doubled down on the "TS is role-fishing" nonsense.
1) Because of his posting, lack of follow up, insincere posts (mostly the very early post that everyone had a problem with) and his general avoidance of anything today. Necarg hates day one’s, that’s well known, but not to the point of avoiding everything
Casually ignores my largest post, in which I adress 4 of the 5 points. (this one)
Yes I hate D1, yes often to the point of ignoring stuff, and no I am not ignoring everything. I can't really follow up entirely until next week (It's finals week and I'm screwed).
The quotes you posted have now been changed to lyrics from "One Week" by the Barenaked Ladies. Mind Screw indeed, but not Smashmouth specific.
this is my seed of doubt with necarg. hes having a lot of fun with the editing instead of posting.
like, hes actively making himself suspicious by making us have to scour the thread for his changes and never be able to trust his posts are what he actually said.
I do it for funsies, because if this wasn't for fun, I wouldn't play mafia. Also, if you've noticed, I've only changed the actual content of one post (This one). The rest have been gags and only gags.
@Everyone: Would it be okay for everyone who can hear voices/feel presences/anything involving spirits/ghosts/invisibility to let us know ONLY that.
I don't hear things, but some may hear things from me. I'll edit with other responses when I'm back from school.
First of many responses in bold italics.
Perhaps you have reason, but why would you claim to have ended the day? What's your motivation to tell us that it was you?
Day 1 sucks.
No comment on the other stuff.
To be clear you are refusing to tell us why you are claiming credit for ending day one? VOTE:HANSANATOR
A little hot to trot aren't you? No need to strong arm into revealing things he doesn't need to yet.
And this is what people are talking about when they said it looked like you were fishing for role related info. You do understand why it looks scummy, right? I still think this is rolefishing, despite TS's constant shrieking of misrep. If Hans were to answer realistically, he'd have to give up some role info, and TS of all people should have had that in mind.
I agree with Tom here, you seem to be fishing hard for role info. If you were hard scum reading me in the MvW game for role speculating, why are you doing the same here? And how can you be certain it's an X-shot ability?
DOTA- I have NOT been role fishing. All my questions have been based on motive. I've been using the all important word WHY. The role fishing word would be HOW.
DOTA and Tom have both purposefully misrepped me here. DOTAs vote attempting to start a wagon.
Where are these role fishing questions you speak of DOTA?
Seems like a pre-planned defense to me. You also HAVE been rolefishing. It isn’t a misrep if it’s in the thread. Like I and Tom have said, this fight seems fake in one way or another. TS's constant misrep yelling leads me to believe it's coming from TS.
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
@Everyone: Would it be okay for everyone who can hear voices/feel presences/anything involving spirits/ghosts/invisibility to let us know ONLY that.
I don't hear things, but some may hear things from me. I'll edit with other responses when I'm back from school.
Your character/role is somehow connected to Smashmouth's "ALL-STAR". I won't be going further into this discovery and you don't have to confirm this. Although I would like you to post more.
from postgame:
i know that applied extremely well to that game, but it must apply here somewhat too.
The micro is a weird example of my scum play, because I didn't really get to play. I made a post in the RVS and I think one other post, then the lynch was so close I didn't want to disturb it and have my RVS vote on Tom removed (if I didn't do that, it could look suspicious, and also could've made me a potential target to be shot by the vig).
I'm glad we won, but I don't know how helpful it would be for anyone trying to determine my scum.
Mind telling why you are against Nacho using his ability? (Quote or something from the Classics is fine.)
In Classic it was early in day 1 and I got into N argument with Rodemy about forcing Nacho to use his Govern and end the day with a no lynch. As the game progressed I got paranoid of the fact that he hadn't proven his claim and yet everyone considered him confirmed town. My paranoia was misplaced and he successfully managed on several occasions to direct town away from mislynching. I'm happy to leave the decision in his hands.
I probably should have moved my vote over a long time ago.
I can't tell if hes just a bad new player, or just playing badly or I don't know. Right now though it feels really scummy to me.
TS is clearly not reading the thread all the way and picking and choosing what they answers. TS has no idea what mechanics are in place. The word misrep has been used about 2 Trillion times and I don't think they even know what that word means.
I am going to go read the Tom, TS interactions but I have a feeling I am just going to get angry because TS. One of these day TS will answer 685. As my side comment I am convinced that this makes Businessman scummy too, because TS is literally riding him. With +1 for being Town comments and WOW I'm so smart so is Businessman comments. I am going to go back and read, but my current assumption of his play of all his posts are,
1) Comments that don't make sense because he references things that are silly(Such as me "Blind voting" Jobie.
2) I'm so smart posts.
The more I read and the more I remember how well we did in classic eventually lead me to think this is better.
3) WOW YOU misrep ME BRA posts.
Read my words I said after. After is not only meant to be immediate reactions. You are trying to get into semantics with a timephrase here, is that really what we are talking about here? You think the word after somehow means immediately? Are you the type of player that doesnt think things over?
4) Town Plz give me your scum lists so I can appear town LUWL.
5) Bussinessman is so town posts.
The further into the game we get the more I'm seeing parallels between Classic TS and Mindscrew TS, and TS was town in Classic. (For a fun drinking game, ISO TS in Classic and take a shot everyone misrep comes up. You won't make it past 2 pages )
I still exist. I'll spend this weekend catching up. I forgot I would have limited access Th/F this week because we're doing recruitment for my grad program.
At least I get to come in with a completely fresh mind to this mind ****.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
i have a question about previous mind screws that i dont want to research.
what role/alignment did the maos have? it sure would be nice to have the general rules known
Neutral.
He also recruited people to join his cult of Dirty No Fun Communists. I don't remember who the mafia group was but it was another group.
Quote from DoTArchon »
The further into the game we get the more I'm seeing parallels between Classic TS and Mindscrew TS, and TS was town in Classic. (For a fun drinking game, ISO TS in Classic and take a shot everyone misrep comes up. You won't make it past 2 pages )
Parallels certainly but these are not the same game and should not be treated in virtually any same way. Game theory wise there might be similar decision making that applies over. But this game is vastly different and there is a vastly different group playing, this equates to a vastly different outcome of the same play. To say well X worked here so X is correct every time in chess for example is fine, but this isn't chess. While mafia may be as a whole a similar game and there are general rules of correct play a lot of it is going to be highly variant. I've always hated meta arguments for this very reason.
Currently most of the time when I am seeing this game referenced, it feels more like a dick measuring contest. "My play was so good in this game, that means I am right here as well." It feels like a fallback argument with no real way to counter or even dispute other to say that it is overall non applicable. It also feels that there is no real afterthought given to any other scenarios that could be occurring. I think comparing this game to any other game and saying that X is the correct play or that these games are so similar is a mistake. This game was designed to be unique.
For example you are assuming right now that Nacho is town, because he was last game that he was a Governor. He could be neutral or even another faction that exists within the game.
To further this argument I could make references to games that I think only me and Azreal have been apart of maybe RobRoy, I don't feel like looking. But it wouldn't really mean anything now would it?
Its not just bravado or even trying to be helpful to me. Its unhelpful largely, the problems that arise from using these arguments outweigh the benefits. And because they don't mean too much its easy for someone to talk about a game outside of this game and appear to be town, while not actually being so. To contrast this though with Businessmans argument about voting people outside of the game I disagree with that because to me that was searching to see if they could vote those players. This game the more information that flows out probably benefits the town much more vastly than it does the mafia team, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have a way around some of the rules that the town have to follow. So, figuring out if we can vote the moderator or vote the NPC's is very valuable information. While comparing to a game that isn't overall remotely the same, is overall unhelpful.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
Okay, let's compare. You're positing a hypothetical where Nacho is scum, and where we are pushing scum!Necarg as the lynch choice.
Case 1: scum!Nacho has agreed in advance to a governing. He casually whistles while pardoning scum!Necarg. Necarg lives for an extra day, and we get literally no information on Nacho.
Case 2: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's worth saving Necarg. Necarg lives for an additional day, and Nacho is forced to justify his decision to us... hopefully leading to his eventual lynch.
Case 3: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's not worth saving Necarg. Necarg dies, any potential night actions he has die with him, and our Day 3 lynch isn't spoken for.
While an argument can be made as to whether we would prefer Case 2 or Case 3, either is strictly better than Case 1. Arguments?
My plan - as you refer to it - is to try to lynch scum. Right now I think my best shot at that is 7hawk77, and I'm planning to put together a case on him today. I'm kind of hoping to get an answer on his history with Tom before then, but not enough to delay posting the attack once it's ready. If he gets run up for a lynch, then Nacho can make his pardon decision then.
By the way, my last completed game had Nacho as governor and he, IABM and I crushed the scum without ever having to use the ability, so Im well aware that preceding with.lynches is fine, my only worry is that there is something screwy with the votes.
Yeah, lynching the wrong person as a result of the displaced votes is a situation where I would likely support a Governing, as I mentioned in 607. Still want it to be Nacho's decision, though.
In an attempt to try and see things from your point of view I'm now back at post 616 which you said I haven't addressed. Currently not sure what you want from this post. I have Nacho in my lean town pile. I've already told you that proving Nacho's role + revealing info on someone we want to know about + find out who gets lynched when we reach threshold (the person or the person above them) I find this to be a reasonable position to ponder. Not sure if you play Magic but it's like to mulligan or not to mulligan? Before I was leaning mull but now with more time to think I prefer to keep.
By the way, I wont be spending a ton of time talking about the word "after" any more. If you have a problem with that, then tough noodles. You already acknowledged that I was technically correct, which is an understatement. I would go as far as saying you don't exactly understand what "after" means. There is a reason we have modifiers like "just after", "right after", "immediately after", etc. It's because after is an indeterminate. That's all on that.
As for your threat to leave your vote on me till the end of the game. Feel free partner! love to see how you play voteless. I feel no pressure from you.
I had been tempted to post from my phone, but coasting in the back seemed like the best choice
i know that applied extremely well to that game, but it must apply here somewhat too.
Able to expand upon this at all? That made me raise my eyebrows as well in Saw mafia as I was specing that game. I was surprised me admitted to using OOG to coast as scum. Wasn't my favorite thing to hear. How does it apply to this game, if at all?
DV refuses to respond to my points for what, the fifth time now. Ill be a good sport and post it AGAIN. You said you dont interrogate liars...yet you claim IABM is lying and you are pursuing him vigilantly. You also claimed Hans is lying, but refuse to engagae him on the lie that you claim to have inside info about (day one, two). This is what we call an inconsistency in logic and it shows opportunistic intentions.
Its not the second day its just a fact. I don't really think hes lying, it just doesn't work as he thinks it does.
Do you or do you not admit that businessman is lying. You have been in this thread as much as anyone.
Do you get that I am not arguing that I am changing my avatar but that I did not change it multiple times?
I want a yes or no. I am tired of you and businessman misrepresenting this argument.
You called Hans a liar, now he's not a liar? When did that happen?
As others have noted (GJ and I to name a few), IABM wasn't lying. I actually think you were trying to deceive us. By not being forthcoming that you DID change your avatar. I don't give a damn how many times you changed it and it's perfectly reasonable that he may have thought you changed it multiple times. He could be lying, I have no way of knowing, but based on your bellicose attacks on him and how much effort you are putting in to insulting my play and just being a generally nasty human being. I think you are tunneling hard and it makes me very wary of you, in your eyes ANYTHING your suspects do is scummy, and that's a reckless and dangerous way to play mafia.
I didn't just look through Drunken Tracker Mafia. I also looked through Animal Mafia and Final Fantasy II mafia. Since I played in those games I'm better able to comprehend how I felt about Bur in those games.
In Animal Mafia. Bur was lurkier and posted at a more spartan pace than what he is doing here. However at the same time the quality of her posts were much higher than what he's offering in this game. Posts like these...
@SirChris: If you think my vote is nonsense, please do tell me, why Zio is town in your opinion.
This still stands. I'm waiting, Chris.
I don't like Snurfy's latest post. I also strongly dislike Anthy wagon. He may not be the towniest player in the game, but we have many other players more suspicious than him. (And after I ISO'd him, I'm leaning slightly town on him.)
@Hunt: Choosing who to lynch based on overlap on T/S-lists is a bad idea. It makes it easier for mafia to cause mislynches and harder for town to analyse wagons.
I'm waiting that "content today" from Plow. I don't recall him doing anything at all in this game.
Should the massclaim go through, I want Archon, Bur, Godot, and Snurfy to claim before me!
This doesn't look promising Seppel. Not many have agreed, and two that have are Zio and I, and we already claimed so it doesn't count for anything.
Is it safe to assume you think those four are scum? Why do they need to go before you?
What do you mean by "This doesn't look promising Seppel."? He tends to push massclaims D1 all the time, this is null from him in my books.
But, no. I'm against the massclaim D1. Even though this is not Iso game, still.
Also, more votes on Zio. Seriously.
Or alternatively, explain to me why Zio is not mafia (since I'm not seeing Zio being town) and refute these points:
- How he seems to be changing wagons like underwear and not even questioning anything. He just seems to do total 180 on Hunt based on a single post from Seppel.
- Also, his reaction to Hunt's claim ("maybe it was an item"). If Zio were to be a newbie, then that push wouldn't be weird, but I'm pretty sure Zio is not one.
Vote Zionite.
I misread Bur in that game and I thought Bur was town. Bur was actually scum Godfather and was caught by PoE through a Sensor.
In Final Fantasy II Mafia, Bur had both a high posting consistency and the quality of her analysis was even better than in Animal Mafia. For example here is one of Bur's T/S lists from that game...
Town:
Bur - duh.
Huntzilla - confirmed townie
KamikazeArchon - for being sensible and having double vote
Probably town:
Askthepizzaguy - the effort this guy has put in this game shows that he really is interested in solving this game.
Cythare - D1 interactions with Wheat/Megiddo
Sepiriel - interactions with Wheat/Megiddo (Okay, Sepiriel is not mafia at least)
MisterSins - for being sensible (pointing out that Garland can't be the one reviving people etc.), claimed to have protected DCIII.
Neutral:
HP - she hasn't really left any impression on me so far
Jskura - I made earlier my case on Cantrip, but Jskura's play after replacing in seems really good. (Still keeping an eye on him for now.)
Need to read properly:
DanteRossetti
imabusinessman (r. Burning_Earth2)
KoolKoal
Prophylaxis (r. Mojito_fun) (V/LA from the 18th to the 25th.)
Rhand (r. Chemtrails)
Vezokpiraka (r. Hunger, r. Gentleman Johnny)
Pizza, remind me to finish reading those players tomorrow. I'll be heading to bed soon, it's past midnight here...
While there aren't full explanations for town or scum he makes no bones about the null reads simply lists them as "needs to read properly". Not like in this game where the list was simply a copy/paste and then a brief mention of each player that looked like easily faked busywork.
First of all, Relm was really fencesitting when it came to Wheat. His opinion went constantly from "Yeah, Wheat is scum for reason ____" to "Nah, he is not" and back again. Also, notice Relm's chainsaw-defense when Sepi attacked Wheat.
Also, Relm's stealthy attempts to turn the attention away from Wheat: "bottom line, I think Wheat's half-claim and his odd attitude toward you Today are reconcilable, and I think we should wait to see whether his full-claim and our perception of the game and game state are reconcilable -- they may not be, but that's not something I care about with 22 other players alive".
Then that whole attack-point system. (Notice how he first conveniently cuts the list in two halves so that Wheat is not on that list AND does not put any points on Wheat). Then later, when the top three is Wheat/Bur/Cythare, Relm says that he wants to go after me or Cythare, but can also go for Wheat.
And when I CC'd Wheat and Wheat started getting more heat, Relm defends Wheat with "I don't think Bur and Wheat's claims are mutually exclusive".
And once again, Relm brings out that Wheat and Cythare both look bad, but Cythare looks worse.
Look at this analysis. Compare that to what's been offered in this game. I had no qualms about townreading Bur and in fact gave an unofficial "town mvp" nod to him along with DCIII in that game.
At everyone else: I want you to also tell your reasoing for choosing your tracking target, when you claim.
This is a gamesolving question that is added in early on. Everyone is going to track someone and so Bur wants to know why and there's follow through to go with it. Look below...
Okay, so time to spill the beans. The reason why I was hounding the information about reason behind N0 targets was to figure out people's mindsets (and thought process behind that). It's as simple as that.
i was kind of hoping that everyone would think about the targeting and target the one below him on the playerlist. Alas
@Megs: srsly?
I don't understand Rhand's logic here. What makes town think "I guess I should track the next player in the player list", especially without any prior discussion about the matter?
@Bur Rhand was one of the people I had no experience with, so I tracked them. Why Rhand out of that group? Random chance mostly, but I did glance around and it looked like Rhand is an experienced player so figured it would be good.
Also, GJ: Why did you target Anak? Everyone else besides you has given their reasoning.
Why does it actually matter? I decided to target him before pms were even sent because he is the only player on the list who has been playing longer than me.
... okay? Why?
---
But, putting that one aside, more things:
DoTA is town. I'm willing to bet this game on it. When GJ(?) asked DoTA to claim, he just blurted it all out and it all felt natural.
Anak is town. Not only Anak has a solid reasoning behind their N0 target, but he's been really sensible and focused on this game.
Rhand is probably town. While his attempt to push two separate claim rounds wasn't useful, I sense no malice or hidden intentions behind it.
GJ is scum. His tone feels off and it feels like he's trying to people do what he wants instead of actually discussing the matters with people.
DV is scum. There's not much that I can point out that already hasn't been pointed out.
And some analysis too. And again the scum is scum and the town is town. No big hoopla about null reads. Follow through on previous questions asked. A genuine effort to solve the game. Bur is scum tracker.
this makes me think you didnt even look at it. how could you miss me saying that in bold. either you aimed questions at me and ignored my answers, or...what? you missed them? if so, i just linked the post for you, and the second one right after. feel free to read all the "words, words, words" ive been taking the time to type.
I'll refer to you with "they" henceforth so I won't use wrong pronoun. Happy? (And yes, I read your post. I remembered that I used wrong gender pronoun, but didn't remember what pronoun I used and I was too lazy to check.)
Snippy and unhelpful. This post also has nothing to do with solving the game in anyway. Also a sense of not being invested "didn't remember what pronoun i used and I was too lazy to check.".
@RobRoy: To me, this Az/DV farce feels like a theatrical act than an attempt to play a game. I haven't been paying much attention to either of them and probably won't until later days. The only thing is that I doubt that Az is flatout lying about his ability. He might be leaving something out, but I don't think he's flatout lying.
@Hunt (regarding #317): I'm not going to tell you what is that tell that I'm looking for, since it'd defeat the purpose. There are few things that are piquing my interest, but nothing concrete yet. I don't remember, but I'd guess that my read on Ghost at that time was based on my gut.
(Did I forget something? If not, I'm eagerly looking towards that big post of yours you promised.)
#2 There's difference between not doing anything by inactivity and not doing anything but still making fluff posts. (And GJ is one of the players in this game I have lots of experience with.)
#3 Must've been quite boring discussion since I don't remember anything about him.
#4 Like I said, there are things I remember you better off than that.
#5 Your prior points are either idiotic or meaningless.
#6 Nothing to comment.
#7 What do you mean by that?
#8 And that makes him scum?
#9 Remind me to push your lynch next time you get mod-confirmed, since your should lynched for this reason ALWAYS.
More snide unhelpful remarks along with a lack of desire to truly engage.
@IMAB: I wouldn't consider NPCs as "People not in this game". TBH, I too am curious what they are and how do they interact with this game. Voting for a one is a reasonable action to test that out IMO.
Early in the game Bur seemed to be engaged and trying to be helpful but that has fallen off the map. Early game Bur seemed to be asking questions but there wasn't any follow through at all. This combined with the "pointless busywork" T/S/ list suggest that Bur is in the game but not actually solving the game.
The Bur I'm' seeing in this game is unlike any of the previous Burs I had a chance to look at. He's posting more than he did as "scumBUR" in Animal Mafia but I did not see Bur as this disengaged in any of the three games. I'm stil fine with Bur being lynched today.
DV refuses to respond to my points for what, the fifth time now. Ill be a good sport and post it AGAIN. You said you dont interrogate liars...yet you claim IABM is lying and you are pursuing him vigilantly. You also claimed Hans is lying, but refuse to engagae him on the lie that you claim to have inside info about (day one, two). This is what we call an inconsistency in logic and it shows opportunistic intentions.
Its not the second day its just a fact. I don't really think hes lying, it just doesn't work as he thinks it does.
Do you or do you not admit that businessman is lying. You have been in this thread as much as anyone.
Do you get that I am not arguing that I am changing my avatar but that I did not change it multiple times?
I want a yes or no. I am tired of you and businessman misrepresenting this argument.
You called Hans a liar, now he's not a liar? When did that happen?
As others have noted (GJ and I to name a few), IABM wasn't lying. I actually think you were trying to deceive us. By not being forthcoming that you DID change your avatar. I don't give a damn how many times you changed it and it's perfectly reasonable that he may have thought you changed it multiple times. He could be lying, I have no way of knowing, but based on your bellicose attacks on him and how much effort you are putting in to insulting my play and just being a generally nasty human being. I think you are tunneling hard and it makes me very wary of you, in your eyes ANYTHING your suspects do is scummy, and that's a reckless and dangerous way to play mafia.
I can't tell if you are stupid or what. I never denied that I changed my avatar. He clearly said I changed it MULTIPLE TIMES. In no way am I deceiving anyone. The Avatar that everyone remembers is from KOL that I have used on this site since I joined. I changed it.
Its not reasonable for him to think that I changed it multiple times. Its a lie. He commented as though he had noticed it. Read the sentence. He directly says that I changed it multiple times and that he took note of it.
To the entire town.
Actually please explain to me how this it is reasonable that he thought that I changed my avatar multiple times and that he made a comment that he noticed that my posts aligned with me changing my avatar. I would love to not be freaking out about this at this point. Because to me this is such a god damn scum tell, I don't know any other way to read it. Please make it make sense.
Just my comment we just lynched bur in another game for the same play businessman is bringing up. Was town. Thats about all I'll say about an ongoing game, but I wouldn't go after that behavior.
Able to expand upon this at all? That made me raise my eyebrows as well in Saw mafia as I was specing that game. I was surprised me admitted to using OOG to coast as scum. Wasn't my favorite thing to hear. How does it apply to this game, if at all?
To clarify, I didn't use OOG to coast as scum, I came back once my internet was fixed and decided to not post purposely due to Tom's lunch being imminent. There was zero benefit to posting as scum in that position, and I wasn't due for a prod. Additionally, no one was made aware of me being absent in any way in that game; I didn't feel the need to tell anyone, and it was never an issue. I hope nobody would use tactics like you originally interpreted, ruins the spirit of the game.
D_V's last post has been reported to moderation. The personal attack in the first sentence is personal and attempted to piss me off further sow bad feelings. He is now on ignore.
Able to expand upon this at all? That made me raise my eyebrows as well in Saw mafia as I was specing that game. I was surprised me admitted to using OOG to coast as scum. Wasn't my favorite thing to hear. How does it apply to this game, if at all?
To clarify, I didn't use OOG to coast as scum, I came back once my internet was fixed and decided to not post purposely due to Tom's lunch being imminent. There was zero benefit to posting as scum in that position, and I wasn't due for a prod. Additionally, no one was made aware of me being absent in any way in that game; I didn't feel the need to tell anyone, and it was never an issue. I hope nobody would use tactics like you originally interpreted, ruins the spirit of the game.
Your comments in postgame came across that you were using IRL issue but if no one knew then all is well. I agree those tactics ruin the spirit of the game, understand that we have to consider those angles though because it's a common tactic to lay low. I'm a believer that more dialogue makes the game harder for scum to win and I have a general distrust for the people that post at a minimum.
@Ghosting-Could you tell us where you're at in turns of scum reads? A lot of us have posted reads, agree disagree with what's been said?
D_V's last post has been reported to moderation. The personal attack in the first sentence is personal and attempted to piss me off further sow bad feelings. He is now on ignore.
Hey, I'll have a little time to respond to things tonight before bed (in a couple hours0, but other than that I'm v/la this weekend. I'll try to read along, but won't have time to post anything noteworthy. Y'all might get some of my delightful one-liners though.
Hey, I'll have a little time to respond to things tonight before bed (in a couple hours0, but other than that I'm v/la this weekend. I'll try to read along, but won't have time to post anything noteworthy. Y'all might get some of my delightful one-liners though.
If you have time try to respond to my Ghosting questions, thanks.
@imab fair enough.
go ahead and flip places with bur in my t/s list.
youre both still in the same tier, but hes on the right now.
you go glen coco.
@tapping
i think ghosting in saw showed that his natural instinct as scum is to hide. thats a reasonable instinct (though not one i share, obviously) and i imagine even if it doesnt show up as lurking it would show up as being careful with what you do post.
that is rather contrary to the ghosting im seeing this game. he is letting fly without really thinking about it, he is posting a ton, and he is actively putting himself out there. im not gonna say his posts have been amazing, or that it makes him obviously town. but it does mean he is at complete cross purposes with his scum instincts.
@jobie i look forward to you being here. theres some solid walls of me vs TS that you will not enjoy, but i think you may hate me less this game
@dota my point is that TS is actively trying to replicate his previous games, but falling short of his usual town conviction. hes saying a lot of the right things, but i am convinced he doesnt really believe them.
i used the word checklist. like he did the omgus thing. and screamed misrep a bunch. and got to the point of trying to replace out/block me. but he just went through it too quickly without the usual fire.
@DV first of all, calm the **** down. TS isnt going to respond to good points against him this game. give him a break. its his first scum game.
second, has mao been neutral every time? that seems like a huge red flag it wont happen again. or possibly will. ******* mindscrew.
@necarg
come at me bro.
@everyone ill be around a little longer if anyone has direct questions for me.
otherwise, ill see yall probably sometime sunday.
i really do think we should avoid reaching the deadline without a lynch, and 3 weeks is about the earliest reasonable deadline. so id really like to make a decision before then. even if its just setting up a middle of the road read for nacho to pardon or lynching the melvin spot so tare doesnt have to find a replacement.
FWIW, ive more or less liked imab and ghosting of late.
they both give me that strong sense of other that i talked about earlier. they definitely do not approach things the way i do. so i suspect it will continue to feel odd to townread them when the right side of my brain is screaming that they arent on my team.
but the logical left hemisphere usually wins in the end, and it says theyre both town.
id love to have the two sides agree, like with DV and robroy, but i dont think thats gonna happen.
it almost feels like im at a handicap when it comes to reading those two, much like sir chris and to some extent wildfire in my previous games.
im not going to recuse myself from trying to read those people, but my natural emotional reaction is that they are scum and i have to fight through that to get to the real truth.
FWIW, ive more or less liked imab and ghosting of late.
they both give me that strong sense of other that i talked about earlier. they definitely do not approach things the way i do. so i suspect it will continue to feel odd to townread them when the right side of my brain is screaming that they arent on my team.
but the logical left hemisphere usually wins in the end, and it says theyre both town.
id love to have the two sides agree, like with DV and robroy, but i dont think thats gonna happen.
it almost feels like im at a handicap when it comes to reading those two, much like sir chris and to some extent wildfire in my previous games.
im not going to recuse myself from trying to read those people, but my natural emotional reaction is that they are scum and i have to fight through that to get to the real truth.
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
@GJYou mentioned how weird it seemed to you and I definitely agree. How can Ghosting call Tom confirmed scum and then in the next post confirmed town? As you said, he should be back at a null read if anything.
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
it is absolutely hilarious that you are accusing me of letting someone's opinion of me influence my opinion of them.
i was just thinking about how easy it must be to replicate the reads you had in your town games when you base them entirely on that.
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
it is absolutely hilarious that you are accusing me of letting someone's opinion of me influence my opinion of them.
i was just thinking about how easy it must be to replicate the reads you had in your town games when you base them entirely on that.
You weren't at all curious about his about face. That's very telling. Sort of like you were just happy to skirt some pressure. I would have immediately questioned him. You've expressed on several occassions that your main goal in Mafia is to "survive to day three", not a particularly worthy goal, but i digress. This fits with the scum portion of that kind of a goal. Town goals are things like "lynch x scum players", "don't get mislynched", "don't tunnel town players" (whoops).
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
@GJYou mentioned how weird it seemed to you and I definitely agree. How can Ghosting call Tom confirmed scum and then in the next post confirmed town? As you said, he should be back at a null read if anything.
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
@GJYou mentioned how weird it seemed to you and I definitely agree. How can Ghosting call Tom confirmed scum and then in the next post confirmed town? As you said, he should be back at a null read if anything.
Why are you trying to misconstrue what happened? It's been repeated probably 10 times now that my "confirmed scum" read does not at all apply now; it never existed. He went from his previously slightly to probably town due to a reread as well as other things, all of which have been repeated multiple times as well. Also, not confirmed town, seeing as you are attempting to exaggerate the change. Even more so, I've explained that the proof unfortunately does affect my view on him (in a positive way), no matter how much I'd like to say it doesn't. But you needn't misconstrue the details or ignore the posts that have already substantiated this.
@tapping I already said I was curious about his about face, but he already said he's not gonna talk about it til after the game.
plus you're forgetting the part where I already knew whatever information he thought he had was wrong.
"Yes, a lone island. I was thinking, she'd probably conjure a condition in which the island is somehow sealed off, and during this time when no one can escape, someone would get murdered. A hilltop mansion in the middle of a blizzard or a lone island in the middle of a tropical storm are the perfect ingredients for a 'closed circle', where there is no way for the authorities to get involved. The ultimate stage for a crime mystery."
Do Avatars Have Any Impact on the Game.
Classified information!
Taredas has received a Foul for post 251.
Taredas has received a Foul for post 253.
Taredas has received a Foul for post 360.
Still searching for a replacement for Darth Melvin. Starting from this post, any deadline is suspended until a replacement is found.
Azrael is being prodded.
Leukovirus's V/LA is noted. Taredas may be V/LA from 3/3/2016 to 3/6/2016.
---
The Fourth Vote Count (aka the "Three Years Ago... Or Was That Four?" Vote Count)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
1. Hey guys my friend's lung collapsed so I'm taking him to the hospital. Hey sorry I don't have more time, the hospital's internet connection is really terrible. Hey still in the hospital checking on my buddy, will post more soon! I had to drive home and get some things and now I have work will maybe post more later tonight. Sorry I didn't post more I fell asleep and now I have to go to work...
I never did any of that. But that's the sort of thing you've been doing a lot.
2...
3. I was down to push his case. He's been less scummy which is why you see him in my "leans scum" pile and not my "scum" pile. Bur is my top suspect but even then that push is on hold to address point #2.
4. I look forward to you trying to Justify Nacho being a popular scumread in the face of the slew of townreads he was getting.
5. Really? So you mean you actually saw my statement in post 496 about why I wanted to vote Az, saw the explaination that Az cannot be voted, and you literally expected my vote to stay on Azrael? Really? That's what you think I should have done? Because almost immediately after post 496 I saw Bur's fake and lazy T/S list and that seemed to be a much more pressing concern. Speaking of Bur, let me go back to point #3. Bur was also taking a ton of suspicion which I wasn't down with until Bur made post 536. And even after Bur made post 536, It wasn't until she responded poorly that I got suspicious. This also disproves your "hopping on popular wagons" idea because Bur was actually losing attention and not being focused on at the time. But you knew all this. That's why you brought it up, right?
Thank you for your reply and the clarification alongside it. I assume I must have misread (posted from phone, notes and t/s list with reasons are on computer), but I will double check with my notes to further confirm. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this.
6. People who aren't posting simply aren't posting. They're not "promising to catch up" posting. If you have time to promise to catch up then you have time to contribute content.
I completely disagree for the same reason as GJ. Additionally, I would argue that it's a null point and ends up being WIFOM. Scum could post that they'll catch up to appear like they will, scum could not post they'll catch up to remain unnoticed, town could post it to let everyone know they do want to catch up and aren't just ignoring the game, etc. There's a million reasons for either side to update or not update, and I think it is poor play to try to say otherwise.
I patiently await Ghosting's follow-up that was promised two days ago.
oh, am i still voting imab? unvote, vote: robroy. tapping is still by far the most likely scum imo, but waiting for necarg is killing me. and im barely here.
@anak not gonna lie to you, i dont remember. i know something made me think dota was scum, but i cant for the life of me remember anything he has said in this game.
ill find it when i have a chance.
also reminding myself (or someone else) to look at the posts tare gave himself a foul for.
I agree with Tom here, you seem to be fishing hard for role info. If you were hard scum reading me in the MvW game for role speculating, why are you doing the same here? And how can you be certain it's an X-shot ability?
So here’s DOTA’s first step out of the aether. I’m not going to revive the whole role fishing argument because we’ve gone through that already. I was adamant in my defense that my probes were not about role-information but motivations and alignments. Motivations are the thing that motivates me to try and read players and I think it’s an interesting skill that I’m trying to improve. Some people thought I was role-fishing others saw it from my perspective.
In regards to the MvW game I didn’t consistently scum read DOTA though I did scum read him through different parts of the game somewhat based on his in game mistakes like role blocking our governor on a night where it seemed he would use our known “vig shot”. It seems like a real stretch to say I was “hardscum-reading" him based on role-fishing. I spoke up about his role fishing and said it was scummy but there are a lot of things I called him out on. He fessed up to some of the strange blunders and even at one point mentioned he would take the blame for a town loss, which I can appreciate the sentiment of. In the end he and I were town together even though we suspected each other on and off throughout the game.
I never once said or made a statement of the nature that Hans had an x-shot ability. I believe Bur asked me about one-shot, multi shot and I discussed the merits, likelihood of either but never said it was multi shot.
I'm back. I've been trying to keep up with the game but have no notes beyond my V/LA post so want to reread before I post any further thoughts. For now:
Unvote
P.S. Proph kill sucked. Want to look into that.
This unvote is cleverly placed if DOTA is trying to back off. Kind of reminds of someone who jumps into a family argument and as things get more heated the person slowly and quietly steps backward hoping no one notices them leaving the room. Been trying to keep up with the game but no notes. Wants to reread before continuing. Why does that require an unvote? If he hadn’t gotten caught up why would he think his current vote is poorly placed? As I mentioned the placement between catchup comment and random weird comment about Proph death. Not a mention of why I’m not scummy enough to be voted anymore. Why does the Proph death suck?
Lynching the Mao role on MS 1 fixed the vote count discrepancies and revealed the rules/deadlines etc.
How does everyone feel about running Az up for Nacho to pardon? I think we could gain a lot of information from revealing his role in this game.
I’m not saying this post is bad. I don’t mind that he was thinking about the reveal plan, I’m more wondering why he would want to first go after someone he thinks might give us more rules/deadline info? Sure, that info would be helpful, but killing scum is likely the most helpful thing you can do.
I agree with RobRoy, I was against Nacho being forced into using his ability in Classic and I'm against it here.
@TS
Quote from TappingStones »
You let me worry about Tom
Can you clarify this statement for me
Interesting, when i came around to this Robroy wanted to jump down my throat. No attack from Robroy on DOTA for the sudden change.
These remarks/questions, to me, just reaks of busy work . Why do you need this clarified DOTA? Do you have any interest in Tom? How about you let us know what’s going on in that head of yours? Is Necarg suspicious because he agreed with your read on me?
Forgot to add: I was looking at some of the older Mind Screw setups and I noticed that the Mao player could send a message to Tar, which Tar would then post in thread. These posts always started with the statement 'Point of order!'. One of three possibilities:
1. Same applies in this game and any posts from Tar that start with Poimt of order can be ignored as deliberately misleading/false (apart from red text within those posts maybe?)
2. The opposite applies here as a way to screw with anyone who reads the old games, and only those posts are actually Tar.
3. Neither applies and he's doing it just to screw with us.
Could be that DOTA likes figuring out the rules but this is just another blank post to me. I mean, I want town to put out some reads and tell me why. Even if I disagree at least we can argue about it and try to hash things out. DOTA let’s talk about how we are going to reach the win con which is kill all the scum.
Mind telling why you are against Nacho using his ability? (Quote or something from the Classics is fine.)
In Classic it was early in day 1 and I got into N argument with Rodemy about forcing Nacho to use his Govern and end the day with a no lynch. As the game progressed I got paranoid of the fact that he hadn't proven his claim and yet everyone considered him confirmed town. My paranoia was misplaced and he successfully managed on several occasions to direct town away from mislynching. I'm happy to leave the decision in his hands.
I like this post. I think it’s a solid defense. He references what happened in that game in a truthful way and it feels relevant here.
Quote from D_V »
Unvote Vote RobRoy(Redirect to TS)
I probably should have moved my vote over a long time ago.
I can't tell if hes just a bad new player, or just playing badly or I don't know. Right now though it feels really scummy to me.
TS is clearly not reading the thread all the way and picking and choosing what they answers. TS has no idea what mechanics are in place. The word misrep has been used about 2 Trillion times and I don't think they even know what that word means.
I am going to go read the Tom, TS interactions but I have a feeling I am just going to get angry because TS. One of these day TS will answer 685. As my side comment I am convinced that this makes Businessman scummy too, because TS is literally riding him. With +1 for being Town comments and WOW I'm so smart so is Businessman comments. I am going to go back and read, but my current assumption of his play of all his posts are,
1) Comments that don't make sense because he references things that are silly(Such as me "Blind voting" Jobie.
2) I'm so smart posts.
The more I read and the more I remember how well we did in classic eventually lead me to think this is better.
3) WOW YOU misrep ME BRA posts.
Read my words I said after. After is not only meant to be immediate reactions. You are trying to get into semantics with a timephrase here, is that really what we are talking about here? You think the word after somehow means immediately? Are you the type of player that doesnt think things over?
4) Town Plz give me your scum lists so I can appear town LUWL.
5) Bussinessman is so town posts.
The further into the game we get the more I'm seeing parallels between Classic TS and Mindscrew TS, and TS was town in Classic. (For a fun drinking game, ISO TS in Classic and take a shot everyone misrep comes up. You won't make it past 2 pages )
Ok, he’s come around to me here. But he’s more or less staying aloof. This is giving a town read with a reason, sure but there is no feeling coming from these posts that DOTA has any intention of scum hunting. Just making a few safe statements, talk about the set-ups of previous games and hang out in thread.
Who are his scum reads? He has an FOS on Necarg that was never even spoken about. He has cleared me and agrees with Nacho that Az might be neutral.
And that’s folks. Nothing else in thread. What I see here is a determination not to get his hands dirty. I can see a town side of that being, that he might have an interesting PR that he doesn’t want to jeopardize by putting himself out there that much but ironically I think that might be what’s giving people trepidation. On the scummy side it’s just a bunch of (mainly) void posts.
Will the real DOTA please stand up?
I’m not going to revive the whole role fishing argument because we’ve gone through that already. I was adamant in my defense that my probes were not about role-information but motivations and alignments.
a bit of a language tell here from TS.
he doesnt say "i wasnt rolefishing"
he says "i was adamant in my defense"
its minor, but thats not townie phrasing.
im sure he'll ignore this forever like the "tom is neutral" slip.
@anak looking at TS' pbpa, i think it was the one post TS actually liked. dota very much contradicted his earlier desire to have nacho pardon azrael, and i especially dont like that TS missed it. hes usually all over contradictions.
definite scumbuddy possibilities there.
I’m not going to revive the whole role fishing argument because we’ve gone through that already. I was adamant in my defense that my probes were not about role-information but motivations and alignments.
a bit of a language tell here from TS.
he doesnt say "i wasnt rolefishing"
he says "i was adamant in my defense"
its minor, but thats not townie phrasing.
im sure he'll ignore this forever like the "tom is neutral" slip.
@anak looking at TS' pbpa, i think it was the one post TS actually liked. dota very much contradicted his earlier desire to have nacho pardon azrael, and i especially dont like that TS missed it. hes usually all over contradictions.
definite scumbuddy possibilities there.
I guess Tom is planning on tunneling me until he dies. I like how he says I missed the contradiction. I literally am the only person who has discussed it. So, no I didnt miss it. No one apparently saw it. I brought it to light and instead of thinking what that contradiction might mean for DOTA he's still thinking about me.
Does anyone want to talk about Tom' strange respnse about not knowing why he wanted to lynch DOTA. Like dude says he's down for DOTA LYNCH, Abak asks "why?", Tom says...he doesnt know. Is that normal? "Derp, derp let's lynch DOTA, Im down, dont know why derp, derp, but I need a wagon to get to day three derp derp.""
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I stopped the tracker re-read to review that game since it was only 2 pages.
His not posting in that game is not relevant since...
1. It could be that this game takes priority. There's not much to discuss in early game and that game never left early game.
2. I think these games are too different to consider meta in addition to that game being too short.
BTW, I had shinen nailed from his first and then second posts and I'm sorry you got quicklynched for Roleplaying. Don't stop doing things like that because it ended poorly that time. Btw, meta reads seem to take exponential effort the longer a game is.
i know that applied extremely well to that game, but it must apply here somewhat too.
1. Not an effort to hide, this is for fun, as I've said before. If this wasn't for fun, I wouldn't do it.
2. Hey, look! Debate and Finals Week!
3. Nope. I do not have the power to delete posts, just edit so far.
/barn this infinitely. @TS, if you're going to make such a drastic claim, maybe READ THE POST YOU'RE REPLYING TO.
Hey look! Another time TS didn't read this post!
Casually ignores my largest post, in which I adress 4 of the 5 points. (this one)
Yes I hate D1, yes often to the point of ignoring stuff, and no I am not ignoring everything. I can't really follow up entirely until next week (It's finals week and I'm screwed).
See Attachment
I do it for funsies, because if this wasn't for fun, I wouldn't play mafia. Also, if you've noticed, I've only changed the actual content of one post (This one). The rest have been gags and only gags.
I don't hear things, but some may hear things from me. I'll edit with other responses when I'm back from school.
First of many responses in bold italics.
More to come.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Your character/role is somehow connected to Smashmouth's "ALL-STAR". I won't be going further into this discovery and you don't have to confirm this. Although I would like you to post more.
Changed my mind upon the realization that Necarg can edit posts so I'll leave this out here.
Somebody Once Told Me
The micro is a weird example of my scum play, because I didn't really get to play. I made a post in the RVS and I think one other post, then the lynch was so close I didn't want to disturb it and have my RVS vote on Tom removed (if I didn't do that, it could look suspicious, and also could've made me a potential target to be shot by the vig).
I'm glad we won, but I don't know how helpful it would be for anyone trying to determine my scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
It's one of those things that you forget and then remember again.
At least I get to come in with a completely fresh mind to this mind ****.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Neutral.
He also recruited people to join his cult of Dirty No Fun Communists. I don't remember who the mafia group was but it was another group.
Parallels certainly but these are not the same game and should not be treated in virtually any same way. Game theory wise there might be similar decision making that applies over. But this game is vastly different and there is a vastly different group playing, this equates to a vastly different outcome of the same play. To say well X worked here so X is correct every time in chess for example is fine, but this isn't chess. While mafia may be as a whole a similar game and there are general rules of correct play a lot of it is going to be highly variant. I've always hated meta arguments for this very reason.
Currently most of the time when I am seeing this game referenced, it feels more like a dick measuring contest. "My play was so good in this game, that means I am right here as well." It feels like a fallback argument with no real way to counter or even dispute other to say that it is overall non applicable. It also feels that there is no real afterthought given to any other scenarios that could be occurring. I think comparing this game to any other game and saying that X is the correct play or that these games are so similar is a mistake. This game was designed to be unique.
For example you are assuming right now that Nacho is town, because he was last game that he was a Governor. He could be neutral or even another faction that exists within the game.
To further this argument I could make references to games that I think only me and Azreal have been apart of maybe RobRoy, I don't feel like looking. But it wouldn't really mean anything now would it?
Its not just bravado or even trying to be helpful to me. Its unhelpful largely, the problems that arise from using these arguments outweigh the benefits. And because they don't mean too much its easy for someone to talk about a game outside of this game and appear to be town, while not actually being so. To contrast this though with Businessmans argument about voting people outside of the game I disagree with that because to me that was searching to see if they could vote those players. This game the more information that flows out probably benefits the town much more vastly than it does the mafia team, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have a way around some of the rules that the town have to follow. So, figuring out if we can vote the moderator or vote the NPC's is very valuable information. While comparing to a game that isn't overall remotely the same, is overall unhelpful.
Just my comment overall.
In an attempt to try and see things from your point of view I'm now back at post 616 which you said I haven't addressed. Currently not sure what you want from this post. I have Nacho in my lean town pile. I've already told you that proving Nacho's role + revealing info on someone we want to know about + find out who gets lynched when we reach threshold (the person or the person above them) I find this to be a reasonable position to ponder. Not sure if you play Magic but it's like to mulligan or not to mulligan? Before I was leaning mull but now with more time to think I prefer to keep.
By the way, I wont be spending a ton of time talking about the word "after" any more. If you have a problem with that, then tough noodles. You already acknowledged that I was technically correct, which is an understatement. I would go as far as saying you don't exactly understand what "after" means. There is a reason we have modifiers like "just after", "right after", "immediately after", etc. It's because after is an indeterminate. That's all on that.
As for your threat to leave your vote on me till the end of the game. Feel free partner! love to see how you play voteless. I feel no pressure from you.
Able to expand upon this at all? That made me raise my eyebrows as well in Saw mafia as I was specing that game. I was surprised me admitted to using OOG to coast as scum. Wasn't my favorite thing to hear. How does it apply to this game, if at all?
You called Hans a liar, now he's not a liar? When did that happen?
As others have noted (GJ and I to name a few), IABM wasn't lying. I actually think you were trying to deceive us. By not being forthcoming that you DID change your avatar. I don't give a damn how many times you changed it and it's perfectly reasonable that he may have thought you changed it multiple times. He could be lying, I have no way of knowing, but based on your bellicose attacks on him and how much effort you are putting in to insulting my play and just being a generally nasty human being. I think you are tunneling hard and it makes me very wary of you, in your eyes ANYTHING your suspects do is scummy, and that's a reckless and dangerous way to play mafia.
I didn't just look through Drunken Tracker Mafia. I also looked through Animal Mafia and Final Fantasy II mafia. Since I played in those games I'm better able to comprehend how I felt about Bur in those games.
In Animal Mafia. Bur was lurkier and posted at a more spartan pace than what he is doing here. However at the same time the quality of her posts were much higher than what he's offering in this game. Posts like these...
I misread Bur in that game and I thought Bur was town. Bur was actually scum Godfather and was caught by PoE through a Sensor.
In Final Fantasy II Mafia, Bur had both a high posting consistency and the quality of her analysis was even better than in Animal Mafia. For example here is one of Bur's T/S lists from that game...
While there aren't full explanations for town or scum he makes no bones about the null reads simply lists them as "needs to read properly". Not like in this game where the list was simply a copy/paste and then a brief mention of each player that looked like easily faked busywork.
Look at this analysis. Compare that to what's been offered in this game. I had no qualms about townreading Bur and in fact gave an unofficial "town mvp" nod to him along with DCIII in that game.
Moving on to Tracker Mafia Highlights...
This is a gamesolving question that is added in early on. Everyone is going to track someone and so Bur wants to know why and there's follow through to go with it. Look below...
And some analysis too. And again the scum is scum and the town is town. No big hoopla about null reads. Follow through on previous questions asked. A genuine effort to solve the game. Bur is scum tracker.
Now let's look at this game...
Snippy and unhelpful. This post also has nothing to do with solving the game in anyway. Also a sense of not being invested "didn't remember what pronoun i used and I was too lazy to check.".
More "not paying attention".
More snide unhelpful remarks along with a lack of desire to truly engage.
Early in the game Bur seemed to be engaged and trying to be helpful but that has fallen off the map. Early game Bur seemed to be asking questions but there wasn't any follow through at all. This combined with the "pointless busywork" T/S/ list suggest that Bur is in the game but not actually solving the game.
The Bur I'm' seeing in this game is unlike any of the previous Burs I had a chance to look at. He's posting more than he did as "scumBUR" in Animal Mafia but I did not see Bur as this disengaged in any of the three games. I'm stil fine with Bur being lynched today.
I can't tell if you are stupid or what. I never denied that I changed my avatar. He clearly said I changed it MULTIPLE TIMES. In no way am I deceiving anyone. The Avatar that everyone remembers is from KOL that I have used on this site since I joined. I changed it.
Its not reasonable for him to think that I changed it multiple times. Its a lie. He commented as though he had noticed it. Read the sentence. He directly says that I changed it multiple times and that he took note of it.
To the entire town.
Actually please explain to me how this it is reasonable that he thought that I changed my avatar multiple times and that he made a comment that he noticed that my posts aligned with me changing my avatar. I would love to not be freaking out about this at this point. Because to me this is such a god damn scum tell, I don't know any other way to read it. Please make it make sense.
Just my comment we just lynched bur in another game for the same play businessman is bringing up. Was town. Thats about all I'll say about an ongoing game, but I wouldn't go after that behavior.
To clarify, I didn't use OOG to coast as scum, I came back once my internet was fixed and decided to not post purposely due to Tom's lunch being imminent. There was zero benefit to posting as scum in that position, and I wasn't due for a prod. Additionally, no one was made aware of me being absent in any way in that game; I didn't feel the need to tell anyone, and it was never an issue. I hope nobody would use tactics like you originally interpreted, ruins the spirit of the game.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Your comments in postgame came across that you were using IRL issue but if no one knew then all is well. I agree those tactics ruin the spirit of the game, understand that we have to consider those angles though because it's a common tactic to lay low. I'm a believer that more dialogue makes the game harder for scum to win and I have a general distrust for the people that post at a minimum.
@Ghosting-Could you tell us where you're at in turns of scum reads? A lot of us have posted reads, agree disagree with what's been said?
Just a comment in case you read this.
It wasn't.
It was frustration.
If you have time try to respond to my Ghosting questions, thanks.
go ahead and flip places with bur in my t/s list.
youre both still in the same tier, but hes on the right now.
you go glen coco.
@tapping
i think ghosting in saw showed that his natural instinct as scum is to hide. thats a reasonable instinct (though not one i share, obviously) and i imagine even if it doesnt show up as lurking it would show up as being careful with what you do post.
that is rather contrary to the ghosting im seeing this game. he is letting fly without really thinking about it, he is posting a ton, and he is actively putting himself out there. im not gonna say his posts have been amazing, or that it makes him obviously town. but it does mean he is at complete cross purposes with his scum instincts.
@jobie i look forward to you being here. theres some solid walls of me vs TS that you will not enjoy, but i think you may hate me less this game
@dota my point is that TS is actively trying to replicate his previous games, but falling short of his usual town conviction. hes saying a lot of the right things, but i am convinced he doesnt really believe them.
i used the word checklist. like he did the omgus thing. and screamed misrep a bunch. and got to the point of trying to replace out/block me. but he just went through it too quickly without the usual fire.
@DV first of all, calm the **** down. TS isnt going to respond to good points against him this game. give him a break. its his first scum game.
second, has mao been neutral every time? that seems like a huge red flag it wont happen again. or possibly will. ******* mindscrew.
@necarg
come at me bro.
@everyone ill be around a little longer if anyone has direct questions for me.
otherwise, ill see yall probably sometime sunday.
i really do think we should avoid reaching the deadline without a lynch, and 3 weeks is about the earliest reasonable deadline. so id really like to make a decision before then. even if its just setting up a middle of the road read for nacho to pardon or lynching the melvin spot so tare doesnt have to find a replacement.
I think you need to work a bit harder on identifying scum. Your list consists of...just me.
Really? Work a little harder. It's fine for you to scum read me but let's be a bit more comprehensive.
they both give me that strong sense of other that i talked about earlier. they definitely do not approach things the way i do. so i suspect it will continue to feel odd to townread them when the right side of my brain is screaming that they arent on my team.
but the logical left hemisphere usually wins in the end, and it says theyre both town.
id love to have the two sides agree, like with DV and robroy, but i dont think thats gonna happen.
it almost feels like im at a handicap when it comes to reading those two, much like sir chris and to some extent wildfire in my previous games.
im not going to recuse myself from trying to read those people, but my natural emotional reaction is that they are scum and i have to fight through that to get to the real truth.
and yeah, lynching melvin was kind of hyperbole. im just saying i really dont want to end the day having accomplished nothing.
Your liking of Ghosting seems to come right as he strangely did an about face to townread you. I'll have to check out your interactions together but some of them didn't look good early on. I really wish Stargate would end so I could talk about some things.
@GJYou mentioned how weird it seemed to you and I definitely agree. How can Ghosting call Tom confirmed scum and then in the next post confirmed town? As you said, he should be back at a null read if anything.
i was just thinking about how easy it must be to replicate the reads you had in your town games when you base them entirely on that.
You weren't at all curious about his about face. That's very telling. Sort of like you were just happy to skirt some pressure. I would have immediately questioned him. You've expressed on several occassions that your main goal in Mafia is to "survive to day three", not a particularly worthy goal, but i digress. This fits with the scum portion of that kind of a goal. Town goals are things like "lynch x scum players", "don't get mislynched", "don't tunnel town players" (whoops).
Why are you trying to misconstrue what happened? It's been repeated probably 10 times now that my "confirmed scum" read does not at all apply now; it never existed. He went from his previously slightly to probably town due to a reread as well as other things, all of which have been repeated multiple times as well. Also, not confirmed town, seeing as you are attempting to exaggerate the change. Even more so, I've explained that the proof unfortunately does affect my view on him (in a positive way), no matter how much I'd like to say it doesn't. But you needn't misconstrue the details or ignore the posts that have already substantiated this.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
plus you're forgetting the part where I already knew whatever information he thought he had was wrong.
Out of town until tomorrow night so just quick posting for now.
"Yes, a lone island. I was thinking, she'd probably conjure a condition in which the island is somehow sealed off, and during this time when no one can escape, someone would get murdered. A hilltop mansion in the middle of a blizzard or a lone island in the middle of a tropical storm are the perfect ingredients for a 'closed circle', where there is no way for the authorities to get involved. The ultimate stage for a crime mystery."
Do Avatars Have Any Impact on the Game.
Classified information!
Taredas has received a Foul for post 251.
Taredas has received a Foul for post 253.
Taredas has received a Foul for post 360.
Still searching for a replacement for Darth Melvin. Starting from this post, any deadline is suspended until a replacement is found.
Azrael is being prodded.
Leukovirus's V/LA is noted. Taredas may be V/LA from 3/3/2016 to 3/6/2016.
---
The Fourth Vote Count (aka the "Three Years Ago... Or Was That Four?" Vote Count)
1) 7hawk77 (0) -
2) Anaklusmos (0) - iambusinessman, Gentleman Johnny
3) Bur (2) -
4) Darth Melvin (0) -
6) DoTArchon (0) -
7) Gentleman Johnny (0) -
8) Ghosting (0) - Nachomamma8
9) hansanator (1) -
10) Huntzilla (0) -
11) Jobie (0) - tomsloger, Anaklusmos
12) iambusinessman (2) -
13) Killjoy (0) -
14) leukovirus (0) -
15) Nachomamma8 (0) - Huntzilla, TappingStones
16) Necarg (2) -
18) RobRoy (0) - Deaths_Vampire
19) TappingStones (1) - RobRoy
20) tomsloger (1) -
Not Voting (12) - 7hawk77, Bur, Darth Melvin, DoTArchon, Ghosting, hansanator, Jobie, Killjoy, leukovirus, Necarg
With ??? votes in play it takes ??? votes to lynch.
Day 2 Deadline: [REDACTED - Rule 0]
End point of order!
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
He's still a leans scum read. I haven't seen any reason to change that.
I patiently await Ghosting's follow-up that was promised two days ago.
unvote, vote: robroy. tapping is still by far the most likely scum imo, but waiting for necarg is killing me. and im barely here.
@anak not gonna lie to you, i dont remember. i know something made me think dota was scum, but i cant for the life of me remember anything he has said in this game.
ill find it when i have a chance.
also reminding myself (or someone else) to look at the posts tare gave himself a foul for.
So here’s DOTA’s first step out of the aether. I’m not going to revive the whole role fishing argument because we’ve gone through that already. I was adamant in my defense that my probes were not about role-information but motivations and alignments. Motivations are the thing that motivates me to try and read players and I think it’s an interesting skill that I’m trying to improve. Some people thought I was role-fishing others saw it from my perspective.
In regards to the MvW game I didn’t consistently scum read DOTA though I did scum read him through different parts of the game somewhat based on his in game mistakes like role blocking our governor on a night where it seemed he would use our known “vig shot”. It seems like a real stretch to say I was “hardscum-reading" him based on role-fishing. I spoke up about his role fishing and said it was scummy but there are a lot of things I called him out on. He fessed up to some of the strange blunders and even at one point mentioned he would take the blame for a town loss, which I can appreciate the sentiment of. In the end he and I were town together even though we suspected each other on and off throughout the game.
I never once said or made a statement of the nature that Hans had an x-shot ability. I believe Bur asked me about one-shot, multi shot and I discussed the merits, likelihood of either but never said it was multi shot.
This unvote is cleverly placed if DOTA is trying to back off. Kind of reminds of someone who jumps into a family argument and as things get more heated the person slowly and quietly steps backward hoping no one notices them leaving the room. Been trying to keep up with the game but no notes. Wants to reread before continuing. Why does that require an unvote? If he hadn’t gotten caught up why would he think his current vote is poorly placed? As I mentioned the placement between catchup comment and random weird comment about Proph death. Not a mention of why I’m not scummy enough to be voted anymore. Why does the Proph death suck?
I’m not saying this post is bad. I don’t mind that he was thinking about the reveal plan, I’m more wondering why he would want to first go after someone he thinks might give us more rules/deadline info? Sure, that info would be helpful, but killing scum is likely the most helpful thing you can do.
Why this FOS?
Interesting, when i came around to this Robroy wanted to jump down my throat. No attack from Robroy on DOTA for the sudden change.
These remarks/questions, to me, just reaks of busy work . Why do you need this clarified DOTA? Do you have any interest in Tom? How about you let us know what’s going on in that head of yours? Is Necarg suspicious because he agreed with your read on me?
Could be that DOTA likes figuring out the rules but this is just another blank post to me. I mean, I want town to put out some reads and tell me why. Even if I disagree at least we can argue about it and try to hash things out. DOTA let’s talk about how we are going to reach the win con which is kill all the scum.
I like this post. I think it’s a solid defense. He references what happened in that game in a truthful way and it feels relevant here.
Ok, he’s come around to me here. But he’s more or less staying aloof. This is giving a town read with a reason, sure but there is no feeling coming from these posts that DOTA has any intention of scum hunting. Just making a few safe statements, talk about the set-ups of previous games and hang out in thread.
Who are his scum reads? He has an FOS on Necarg that was never even spoken about. He has cleared me and agrees with Nacho that Az might be neutral.
And that’s folks. Nothing else in thread. What I see here is a determination not to get his hands dirty. I can see a town side of that being, that he might have an interesting PR that he doesn’t want to jeopardize by putting himself out there that much but ironically I think that might be what’s giving people trepidation. On the scummy side it’s just a bunch of (mainly) void posts.
Will the real DOTA please stand up?
a bit of a language tell here from TS.
he doesnt say "i wasnt rolefishing"
he says "i was adamant in my defense"
its minor, but thats not townie phrasing.
im sure he'll ignore this forever like the "tom is neutral" slip.
@anak looking at TS' pbpa, i think it was the one post TS actually liked. dota very much contradicted his earlier desire to have nacho pardon azrael, and i especially dont like that TS missed it. hes usually all over contradictions.
definite scumbuddy possibilities there.
I guess Tom is planning on tunneling me until he dies. I like how he says I missed the contradiction. I literally am the only person who has discussed it. So, no I didnt miss it. No one apparently saw it. I brought it to light and instead of thinking what that contradiction might mean for DOTA he's still thinking about me.
Does anyone want to talk about Tom' strange respnse about not knowing why he wanted to lynch DOTA. Like dude says he's down for DOTA LYNCH, Abak asks "why?", Tom says...he doesnt know. Is that normal? "Derp, derp let's lynch DOTA, Im down, dont know why derp, derp, but I need a wagon to get to day three derp derp.""