@IABM-Which vote would you say looks the worst on me right now?
I think Tom and Necarg both look like places to start. Tom has dug his feet in to an indefensible position and Necarg jumping on the way he did looks bad.
Tom is stuck in his typical "tunnel vision".
I'm not sure if Necarg's post is alignment indicative though.
DoTArchon's vote actually looks worse than Necarg but special mention goes to Huntzilla's "pre-planned defense" accusation in post 117. I didn't like that at all.
Anything wrong with the pre-planned defense aside from you don’t agree? If it makes you feel better I don’t believe it was scum motivated and more or less came out of TS’ dislike of Tom.
.
Missed this question...
"Pre-planned" defense is the type of statement that makes my skin crawl. It can be used on literally any defense a person makes.
Also Hunt, if you had to pick between three people to lynch which three would you choose.
@Nachomamma8
People whom I would like to see "governored" to discern their alignment...
Bur
Tomsloger
leukovirus-can't seem to get a read based on posts. Will try to interact more with but a governor is a cheap shortcut
7Hawk77-paranoid
@RobRoy: To me, this Az/DV farce feels like a theatrical act than an attempt to play a game. I haven't been paying much attention to either of them and probably won't until later days. The only thing is that I doubt that Az is flatout lying about his ability. He might be leaving something out, but I don't think he's flatout lying.
Thanks for the response, but you really need to start paying more attention to D_V. From the hints he's dropped, plus the fact that the player numbers in the first post skip over 5) (the spot where D_V would fit, alphabetically), he's certainly a player in this game, and will not remain off the player list forever - possibly not even past tomorrow morning. Please don't just ignore him.
I dislike this comment. It really just makes me think that DoTArchon was forcing himself to participate, and actively trying to appear townie.
See above. The Proph kill was the one thing that stood out to me during my skimming while I was V/LA. I've been thinking about it though and I'm wondering if it wasn't flavor/role related rather than a vig.
Welcome to several pages ago! Question for you, though. You said "vig", here. Vigs are normally town. Why did you believe a townie would shoot Proph?
Tom, could you explain your ride or die DV read a little more? It stood out the first time you said that and I meant to ask you about it, but forgot until now.
sure, though ive also said its stupid
DV is not on the playerlist and cannot receive votes. this makes me inclined to townread because this is pretty broken for scum.
the more important part, to me, is the posting restriction.
i believe that DV has been told to post like this. i mean, maybe he made it up i guess. but what i see is him trying to post content in spite of it, not retreating into it to avoid putting himself out there. so yeah, its real.
now a posting restriction could have any number of purposes in a game like this. but one of the side effects of it is that it is easier to hide.
i get that this is mindscrew, and mod gaming is stupid.
but do you really believe that tare created a scum role and gave it TWO ways to hide?
id believe that DV was neutral, but no way hes scum.
Per my comment to Bur above, I'm reading the hints D_V is dropping as indicating that he's not permanently off the player list, but will be entering the thread fully soon. Say, on the Second Day.
Darth Melvin has failed to confirm and will be replaced.
I'll handle anything else outstanding tomorrow. (Probably including some fouls on myself.)
Sigh. Ghosting, I don't suppose he responded to you privately while handling this? I'd really like to resolve the Tom situation you've created so that we can move on.
Sadly IABM has ignore on D-V (or so he says he did) but I would like him to respond here.
I see no point in interacting with D_V. He's not fully in control of his own posts. As exemplified already he's making comments that are inaccurate at best and false at worse. But if he doesn't have full control over his posts then there's very little that can be done. And if he's faking his Post Restriction there's literally nothing we can do about it since our votes on him don't matter at this juncture. I'll take him off ignore on the next day but the things he's saying today are not reliable.
@7hawk77
@DoTArchon
@RobRoy
@Anaklusmos
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
Taredas did in fact reply to me. I will not be posting the information my accusations were based on, and they will not affect my read on him in any way. I'm allowed to explain this after the game is over, but not until then. It isn't related to any ability or anything and will make a lot of sense when explained. Please treat it as though it did not happen and know that I apologise for introducing the point before messaging Tar in the first place.
Taredas did in fact reply to me. I will not be posting the information my accusations were based on, and they will not affect my read on him in any way. I'm allowed to explain this after the game is over, but not until then. It isn't related to any ability or anything and will make a lot of sense when explained. Please treat it as though it did not happen and know that I apologise for introducing the point before messaging Tar in the first place.
That's not as huge a loss as you may think it is. Tom's the definition of low hanging fruit. Tom will find a way to die. His is I belueve his 6th game and never seen a day three.
You let me worry about Tom. Please work on a list of.potential players to use the govern ability on. It would be extra useful if you iso players that havent been discussed much.
Just so my ideas are out in the open, I wouldnt mind revealing on Bur or Hunt (they are often mislynched and Id prefer that doesnt happen here), Necarg and Hans (self confessed that they are bad at and hate day ones), possibly Hawk because I am null on him, DOTA if we dont get any more posts from him.
In terms of Tom I have a paranoid thought based on him supposedly selecting the number for who gets votes. He might have something like night action change the number, one shot twilight change it back to normal which would kill me. This idea gained more traction with me because he was playing too much like a jester. Piling votes onto himself and then switch it to me would be a great.mind screw and not poorly playing at this point.
Again likely paranoia but Id like to see a lynch or pardon occur before I get too comfortable.
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
Sure. It consists of:
- people Nacho is willing to Govern.
I've explained this before, but I do not agree that Nacho should allow the town to dictate his decision. If we have town!Nacho, then any decision he makes - right or wrong - is 100% intended to help the town, and I'd rather trust that than a decision made by the general public. If we have scum!Nacho, then I want to get all the reads I can from him to try to nail him, and letting him subordinate himself to the town is a good way to avoid responsibility.
Finally, we need to remember that using Nacho's ability will use up the town's lynch for the day. That lynch - who is willing to see who dead - is one of our main tools for determining the alignment of our fellows. I believe that having that vote not be for a death, but instead for a reveal, will make people more cavalier about their decisions, and mean that we can't trust reads nearly as much as we would otherwise.
There are still circumstances where I'd be happy to see Nacho use his ability - for example, if we guess wrong on the displaced votes, and end up lynching the wrong person - but I want the decision to be specifically Nacho's.
Taredas did in fact reply to me. I will not be posting the information my accusations were based on, and they will not affect my read on him in any way. I'm allowed to explain this after the game is over, but not until then. It isn't related to any ability or anything and will make a lot of sense when explained. Please treat it as though it did not happen and know that I apologise for introducing the point before messaging Tar in the first place.
So, to be explicit: you are withdrawing the accusation you 100% know Tom to be scum, and we should continue the game as though you had not made that accusation?
Just so my ideas are out in the open, I wouldnt mind revealing on Bur or Hunt (they are often mislynched and Id prefer that doesnt happen here), Necarg and Hans (self confessed that they are bad at and hate day ones), possibly Hawk because I am null on him, DOTA if we dont get any more posts from him.
For the record, this is exactly what I was talking about above, about players being cavalier. Tapping just said that he is willing to end the day in order to confirm the alignment of any of six players, including ones he believes to be town and ones on which he says he doesn't have much of a read. I really want to keep the lynch limited to those we think should be dead, and Nacho can take responsibility for a veto if he thinks it's warranted.
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
Sure. It consists of:
- people Nacho is willing to Govern.
I've explained this before, but I do not agree that Nacho should allow the town to dictate his decision. If we have town!Nacho, then any decision he makes - right or wrong - is 100% intended to help the town, and I'd rather trust that than a decision made by the general public. If we have scum!Nacho, then I want to get all the reads I can from him to try to nail him, and letting him subordinate himself to the town is a good way to avoid responsibility.
Finally, we need to remember that using Nacho's ability will use up the town's lynch for the day. That lynch - who is willing to see who dead - is one of our main tools for determining the alignment of our fellows. I believe that having that vote not be for a death, but instead for a reveal, will make people more cavalier about their decisions, and mean that we can't trust reads nearly as much as we would otherwise.
There are still circumstances where I'd be happy to see Nacho use his ability - for example, if we guess wrong on the displaced votes, and end up lynching the wrong person - but I want the decision to be specifically Nacho's.
Taredas did in fact reply to me. I will not be posting the information my accusations were based on, and they will not affect my read on him in any way. I'm allowed to explain this after the game is over, but not until then. It isn't related to any ability or anything and will make a lot of sense when explained. Please treat it as though it did not happen and know that I apologise for introducing the point before messaging Tar in the first place.
So, to be explicit: you are withdrawing the accusation you 100% know Tom to be scum, and we should continue the game as though you had not made that accusation?
Just so my ideas are out in the open, I wouldnt mind revealing on Bur or Hunt (they are often mislynched and Id prefer that doesnt happen here), Necarg and Hans (self confessed that they are bad at and hate day ones), possibly Hawk because I am null on him, DOTA if we dont get any more posts from him.
For the record, this is exactly what I was talking about above, about players being cavalier. Tapping just said that he is willing to end the day in order to confirm the alignment of any of six players, including ones he believes to be town and ones on which he says he doesn't have much of a read. I really want to keep the lynch limited to those we think should be dead, and Nacho can take responsibility for a veto if he thinks it's warranted.
Nacho already said he doesnt want to use the ability on the most scummy or most towny person, remember? And you,are saying that you want the choice to be his, right?
Secondly, this is very preliminary. I put up names that make sense to me but others might disagree. I could see myself fighting pretty hard for certain people.
Nacho already said he doesnt want to use the ability on the most scummy or most towny person, remember? And you,are saying that you want the choice to be his, right?
Secondly, this is very preliminary. I put up names that make sense to me but others might disagree. I could see myself fighting pretty hard for certain people.
If you're a townie, the only thing you should be fighting hard for is to see that your scum reads are lynched. Do you think you know who scum is? Great! Run them up the flagpole and tell Nacho to stand back, 'cause they deserve to die. If you don't know who scum is, then keep looking, because any plan that involves assuming a Governing is happening today is inherently flawed.
Nacho already said he doesnt want to use the ability on the most scummy or most towny person, remember? And you,are saying that you want the choice to be his, right?
Secondly, this is very preliminary. I put up names that make sense to me but others might disagree. I could see myself fighting pretty hard for certain people.
If you're a townie, the only thing you should be fighting hard for is to see that your scum reads are lynched. Do you think you know who scum is? Great! Run them up the flagpole and tell Nacho to stand back, 'cause they deserve to die. If you don't know who scum is, then keep looking, because any plan that involves assuming a Governing is happening today is inherently flawed.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
By the way, my last completed game had Nacho as governor and he, IABM and I crushed the scum without ever having to use the ability, so Im well aware that preceding with.lynches is fine, my only worry is that there is something screwy with the votes.
I see no point in interacting with D_V. He's not fully in control of his own posts. As exemplified already he's making comments that are inaccurate at best and false at worse. But if he doesn't have full control over his posts then there's very little that can be done. And if he's faking his Post Restriction there's literally nothing we can do about it since our votes on him don't matter at this juncture. I'll take him off ignore on the next day but the things he's saying today are not reliable.
@7hawk77
@DoTArchon
@RobRoy
@Anaklusmos
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
I agree with RobRoy, I was against Nacho being forced into using his ability in Classic and I'm against it here.
I see no point in interacting with D_V. He's not fully in control of his own posts. As exemplified already he's making comments that are inaccurate at best and false at worse. But if he doesn't have full control over his posts then there's very little that can be done. And if he's faking his Post Restriction there's literally nothing we can do about it since our votes on him don't matter at this juncture. I'll take him off ignore on the next day but the things he's saying today are not reliable.
@7hawk77
@DoTArchon
@RobRoy
@Anaklusmos
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
I agree with RobRoy, I was against Nacho being forced into using his ability in Classic and I'm against it here.
Forgot to add: I was looking at some of the older Mind Screw setups and I noticed that the Mao player could send a message to Tar, which Tar would then post in thread. These posts always started with the statement 'Point of order!'. One of three possibilities:
1. Same applies in this game and any posts from Tar that start with Poimt of order can be ignored as deliberately misleading/false (apart from red text within those posts maybe?)
2. The opposite applies here as a way to screw with anyone who reads the old games, and only those posts are actually Tar.
3. Neither applies and he's doing it just to screw with us.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
Okay, let's compare. You're positing a hypothetical where Nacho is scum, and where we are pushing scum!Necarg as the lynch choice.
Case 1: scum!Nacho has agreed in advance to a governing. He casually whistles while pardoning scum!Necarg. Necarg lives for an extra day, and we get literally no information on Nacho.
Case 2: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's worth saving Necarg. Necarg lives for an additional day, and Nacho is forced to justify his decision to us... hopefully leading to his eventual lynch.
Case 3: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's not worth saving Necarg. Necarg dies, any potential night actions he has die with him, and our Day 3 lynch isn't spoken for.
While an argument can be made as to whether we would prefer Case 2 or Case 3, either is strictly better than Case 1. Arguments?
My plan - as you refer to it - is to try to lynch scum. Right now I think my best shot at that is 7hawk77, and I'm planning to put together a case on him today. I'm kind of hoping to get an answer on his history with Tom before then, but not enough to delay posting the attack once it's ready. If he gets run up for a lynch, then Nacho can make his pardon decision then.
By the way, my last completed game had Nacho as governor and he, IABM and I crushed the scum without ever having to use the ability, so Im well aware that preceding with.lynches is fine, my only worry is that there is something screwy with the votes.
Yeah, lynching the wrong person as a result of the displaced votes is a situation where I would likely support a Governing, as I mentioned in 607. Still want it to be Nacho's decision, though.
The first action I feel worth mentioning is the question posed by IABM of why doesn't he question Hans who has said it's day two (D_V says it's not day two.). His response "Why would I interrogate someone who made false statements?" This seems to fall smack in the face of how town finds scum or how people learn in the real world for that matter. If you were town you would be very interested that early on a player is in a contradiction with you. Doesn't make him scum (if you're town) but it should certainly draw your attention.
In response to Azreal calling "Well that's a bald-faced lie", he continues with empty posts.
Naked votes Robroy
OMGUS votes IABM
Says IABM is lying but then admits later that he did in fact change his avatar.
Complains IABM hasn't made cases which is hugely ironic as he's going around naked voting and calling people scum without any case whatsoever.
Blind votes Jobie
Other than that he spends a lot of time on set-up gaming and whatnot which may be good for him. i have no idea what he's working with as far as information goes. Not acting towny, nor like he cares what happens in the game. I'm guessing a type of neutral but I'd like to hear what others (non-Tom enteties) have to say. Sadly IABM has ignore on D-V (or so he says he did) but I would like him to respond here. I would have Tom ignored but I can't as he's got the advantage of being a mod, so I'm just not reading what he writes. If there's something pertinent then someone else could chime in. I just don't have any fun when Tom is in the game. Rather then have a terrible time I would prefer to ignore him till he or I dies. It's not set in stone but he makes me uncomfortable enough that I just have a terrible experience when he's playing.
I am going to be as frank as I know how to be.
You are not playing the game.
If you were you would know that to vote Businessman you have to vote Jobie.
Looking at a vote count would tell you this. Even though Tom also pointed this out.(But you don't want to read this because you are having a hissy fit)
Quote from Bussinessman »
D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game.
This is the post that is a lie.
Once again you are not even reading this game.
If you are a town member then you really got to play better. Either way as a player you need to play better. You don't know whats going on in this game. And furthermore you are a detriment to the town because you are ignoring a player because you want to have a temper tantrum. Grow up. Play better.
You can't even tell me why I say its not the second day.
Tom town firmed hans without good reasoning. I asked for a better explanation and crap was given.
There is one thing that he said that makes me wonder if I'm wrong about him but I'll let him respond to TS before I elaborate. I think if I add more pressure to him he might implode regardless of alignment which would be bad.
His response to you is here. What about that did you find to be crap? What did he say that made you wonder if you were wrong about him?
So, to be explicit: you are withdrawing the accusation you 100% know Tom to be scum, and we should continue the game as though you had not made that accusation?
Yes, exactly. I will explain when the game ends, but for now just pretend it never happened. My apologies.
Also, since my internet is now fixed, I'll be doing some heavy rereading later tonight (hopefully). Have to study for my chemistry midterm tomorrow and do all of the online homework I wasn't able to complete while the internet was down.
So, to be explicit: you are withdrawing the accusation you 100% know Tom to be scum, and we should continue the game as though you had not made that accusation?
Yes, exactly. I will explain when the game ends, but for now just pretend it never happened. My apologies.
Well, at least we got some reactions out of it. I'm more well-inclined towards Tom now than I was before. He didn't flail or counterattack when you posted that you were 100% sure he was scum; instead he just kept playing the game. Props, Tom.
Also, since my internet is now fixed, I'll be doing some heavy rereading later tonight (hopefully). Have to study for my chemistry midterm tomorrow and do all of the online homework I wasn't able to complete while the internet was down.
I'm personally getting exhaused with the excuse making. Even when I was phone posting in WW: CLASSIC I tried to have some sort of content. Your posts just to make excuses is reminding me a lot of EtR from that game.
Man I hate when you attack people for out of game stuff. I'd almost rather lose. It's just so scummy.
Not, like, mafia scummy. Like Donald Trump scummy.
Man I hate when you attack people for out of game stuff. I'd almost rather lose. It's just so scummy.
Not, like, mafia scummy. Like Donald Trump scummy.
We're the uninformed majority competing against the informed minority. I will take any and all advantages I can get. Furthermore there's a townie method for dealing with limited time and a scummy method for dealing with limited time. Take me for example. In WW Classic even though I had limited time I tried to make that limited time count. Compare that to Ghosting/EtR. Lots of time to make "gonna catch up" posts not enough time to make even minimalist content. Oh and if that grinds your gears check out this message I sent to ISO.
Antny223
Registered User
Member for 3 years, 2 months, and 1 day Last active 4 days ago
You've accidentally confirmed that antyny's slot is scum.
Quote from "Iso »
imabusinessman thinks that because I was in Florida and didn't open Day that Antny being gone for 4 IRL days meant that I confirmed him as scum.
Two problems with that theory: 1. You don't have to login to MTGS to be on QuickTopic, and 2. Scum can usually send in their partners' actions if they're AWOL.
Yeah, I never had a chance to share this one but I was right on that too regarding Antny. Iso delayed the start of the day in order to accomodate the scum nightkill. He tried to deny it and claim that it was due to travel. Mods treat scum and town differently.
You can hate the method but you can't hate the result. I will use any tool at my disposal to catch scum. Speaking of results...
Join me on Anaklusmos and have it redirected to Bur.
Just because it happened to work that time (and I talk to iso more than you. He wasn't holding the game for antny or anyone else) doesn't mean that it isnt repugnant and unfun.
But I digress. doing that ***** doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for you, so whatever.
talk to me about bur. How is this different than every other bur game I've ever seen?
@Necarg Interesting that you say that town arguments get heated and last a while, to me the Tom vs. TS debate has been the longest lasting and most heated portion of this day so far. Maybe the number of posts isn't as high as you usually see, but remember we are one week into the game, there has only been so much time to argue.
My point is that the fight has already practically ended. There's not much action left. These fights (at least the ones I've seen in the past) don't end easily or quickly when they're Town v Town, so I don't think both are town.
Knowing that, which of the two do you think are scum? I know you said you are re-reading, but I don't recall seeing your answer to this.
Keep in mind there is no doubt in my mind that Tom is scum, it simply comes down to whether or not I'll be able to provide the proof. I'm sure I'll be able to, just don't want to get modkilled over something that could be prevented by asking Tar first.
Oh, Im not doubting you. Tom is already confirmed "scum-aligned" based on behavior.
You have an interesting definition of confirmed, believe him to be scum as much as you like but that is in no way confirmed. Are you truly that confident in your read?
I'm saying the PR is coming from a different role altogther. Someone got the option N0 to inflict a PR on someone, and used it on him. I don't specifically recall not seeing him on the playerlist during the confirmation stage.
\
No outside forces to my knowledge are forcing me to do anything other than perhaps the moderator and basic game mechanics.
That being said I am only now just a smile, one would assume my body will catch up with me eventually. Specifically on the second day.
It is though quite mad to assume that another person might be able to be removed from the game. I myself, removed thyself. But! It appears that others might be able to be disappeared because of verbiage used, with the moderator. Then again this is Mind Screw Mafia. So perhaps I am simply the fool in this assumption.
Unvote Vote Jobie
Is this vote intended for Jobie, or is it meant to be redirected, if you are buying into Tom's statements about the vote shifting? If Jobie, why him?
@IMAB Attacking people for out of game stuff can be valid, when its actually provable. Something like role PM's causing claims that don't fit with the towns PM's (I caught Buranri that way forever ago), etc. With the time, you had a hunch, but it was truly nothing beyond a hunch. Sure, you wound up being right, but it was just a guess. Using it as justification for every theory you come up with just makes whatever you are saying lose its punch.
You can hate the method but you can't hate the result. I will use any tool at my disposal to catch scum. Speaking of results...
Join me on Anaklusmos and have it redirected to Bur.
Except apparently for responding to D_V. I really hate just blanket ignoring a player, especially when he doesn't deserve that from you. He is just trying to play the game, and quitting like that just grinds my gears in the worst way. The only time I could maybe see that is if he was making personal insults against you, but that't not what he did at all. It reeks to me of not having a response to his case, and as such you are just trying to find a way to respond to it at all.
Vote: Jobie to vote IMAB (though they are backwards alphabetically in the player list)
@KJ The issue of course in that scenario is getting everyone to agree on a major town read to use the ability on, though I concur that would probably be the ideal course for the day.
That is a good point. Although I'd say common town reads are more likely than common scum reads in a lot of situations.
Quote from Rob »
He's honestly not being that obscure. His verbiage is a touch obtuse, but I think anything non-self-referential he has posted has made his opinions known.
True that he's understandable... but it seems like he's also being prevented from talking about some things. I suppose maybe he's just not being as open as I would expect of someone with a PR but I was hoping maybe Tomorrow he would be more helpful.
Quote from Rob »
Not a good plan.
Lynching Az is always the best plan in all situations.
Quote from Rob »
Apologies, I don't recall seeing this question. Not terribly often - I think they have come up as an ability in a Xyre or something, but can't recall a specific instance off the top of my head.
Ok. So I feel like my distrust/paranoia in the way of Nacho is more justified now.
I don't feel many responded to my questions in my last giant quote wall. Probably because I spoilered it. If you could take time to check it for questions related to you, it would be much appreciated. Also @Bur : you still didn't answer what you were looking for from me? Are you satisfied or not?
PTAP followed by nonposting is not my fave, Hunt. C'mon man. Modgod: Prod to Hunt, please? It's been 2 days since the PTAP.
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur - Hi!
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
This post seems a little off. I have some questions/comments on this.
1) You say that Hawk had some posts that felt natural, but you give him a Null. Are natural posts not a towntell to you? Further, you specify for several people that you can't remember them doing things (Null)... so if natural posts IS a towntell for you, how does natural posts + can't remember content only end as null?
7)I don't recall lack of active participation being a scumtell for GJ, especially early D1. I've always got the impression that he's kinda like me in that no matter what is alignment he would prefer to participate than to not.
8)You say he's buddying with TS... but have him Null. Is Town buddying with Town a thing? Buddying is typically a scum thing and therefore the Null judgment on him seems weird.
14) "Not impressed" def has negative connotation... but again you have him Null. Explain?
16) Why is Necarg lean scum for you're lack of being impressed with him if leuko is Null for the same thing?
19) Why is he Null to Lean town though? You don't specify.
Except... I have been scum hunting. This could be a valid argument to make if anything I was doing was detracting from scum hunting instead of adding to it, but that's not the case at all.
As for hints, most of the hints came through roles that other players had. And yes, I do think it's important to figure out what roles the moderator nd reviewer has this game, especially as Azrael is trying to influence the game and convince players to give him souls as we speak.
Lynching the moderator in that game was a net gain for town, which is why I brought it up. I don't think it's a worthy avenue quite yet but it's something to point out for people completely unfamiliar with the format. The reason I've talked about it a little bit more than I would normally is because a lot of people are unfamiliar with this game style (and Mind Screw is a game style): spending two or three posts talking about the setup is beneficial when 90% of the town has no idea what the hell is going on, same as it would be to talk about roles in early game if you had a bunch of first-time players playing.
Just because you're scumhunting in addition to asking us to spend a bunch of time trying to figure out the mod dichotomy doesn't make asking us to spend a bunch of time on the mod dichotomy not a bad thing to do.
I grant you that I believe Az to be holding something crucial back. He's been pretty forthcoming but there's prob something very important he's not telling us about his abilities that is likely bad for us.
And the way you were going on about it implied that you thought it was a worthy avenue. That's why I mentioned it.
Yes. That's what I'm saying. I said all that, and meant it. I dislike the negative connotation you're putting on this, but maybe you just misunderstand?
You say I'm being overly helpful, except I haven't been overly helpful that much and being helpful isn't scummy.
I'm confused.
Yes/ That's what I'm saying. I dislike the negative connotation you're putting on this, but maybe you just misunderstand. I'll reexplain.
Being helpful (reposting a votecount, confirming a fact) is fine. We're all nice people and sometimes we help each other out. Being OVERLY helpful (Posting a votecount in each of your posts, delving into old games to find old rules) is just a bit much that most people don't do unless doing it for some reward... like town points.
And yea, you're not doing much of it. You didn't, say, post links to all the Mind Screw games, followed by all the rules. All you did was click the links and grab the rules. But at the same time, if you didn't no one else likely would have.
I pointed out that it was something that should be discussed; I didn't derail scum hunting to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics and I didn't push anyone specifically to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics. Those are the differences I'm emphasizing: you're claiming that I've talked about Tar and Az to the point of it being harmful, but I really don't think that's the case.
So are you saying you would NOT wanna spend any time talking about it Today?
@KJ, Bur: Before the vote count weirdness, I was worried about scum having an ability to mess with my power. Am less worried about that now, will be pardoning and revealing alignment today because it's the best move to make. Would prefer not running up a strong scumread or strong townread, but that's just me.
Who is your preferred target for your ability? And if that person turns up town, who should we lynch after that?
I don't think anyone but a major scumread is plausible personally. Lynching our second-best scumread is suboptimal D1.
Also I wanted to know if you could pardon youself. Can you?
I'm saying the PR is coming from a different role altogther. Someone got the option N0 to inflict a PR on someone, and used it on him. I don't specifically recall not seeing him on the playerlist during the confirmation stage.
\
No outside forces to my knowledge are forcing me to do anything other than perhaps the moderator and basic game mechanics.
That being said I am only now just a smile, one would assume my body will catch up with me eventually. Specifically on the second day.
It is though quite mad to assume that another person might be able to be removed from the game. I myself, removed thyself. But! It appears that others might be able to be disappeared because of verbiage used, with the moderator. Then again this is Mind Screw Mafia. So perhaps I am simply the fool in this assumption.
Unvote Vote Jobie
Ohhhh ok. So maybe it IS a game mechanic then. Which means it moves. Cool. Good to know.
Forgot to add: I was looking at some of the older Mind Screw setups and I noticed that the Mao player could send a message to Tar, which Tar would then post in thread. These posts always started with the statement 'Point of order!'. One of three possibilities:
1. Same applies in this game and any posts from Tar that start with Poimt of order can be ignored as deliberately misleading/false (apart from red text within those posts maybe?)
2. The opposite applies here as a way to screw with anyone who reads the old games, and only those posts are actually Tar.
3. Neither applies and he's doing it just to screw with us.
I'd say assume everything not in red (and possibly blue) should be taken with a grain of salt.
Man I hate when you attack people for out of game stuff. I'd almost rather lose. It's just so scummy.
Not, like, mafia scummy. Like Donald Trump scummy.
We're the uninformed majority competing against the informed minority. I will take any and all advantages I can get. Furthermore there's a townie method for dealing with limited time and a scummy method for dealing with limited time. Take me for example. In WW Classic even though I had limited time I tried to make that limited time count. Compare that to Ghosting/EtR. Lots of time to make "gonna catch up" posts not enough time to make even minimalist content. Oh and if that grinds your gears check out this message I sent to ISO.
Antny223
Registered User
Member for 3 years, 2 months, and 1 day Last active 4 days ago
You've accidentally confirmed that antyny's slot is scum.
Quote from "Iso »
imabusinessman thinks that because I was in Florida and didn't open Day that Antny being gone for 4 IRL days meant that I confirmed him as scum.
Two problems with that theory: 1. You don't have to login to MTGS to be on QuickTopic, and 2. Scum can usually send in their partners' actions if they're AWOL.
Yeah, I never had a chance to share this one but I was right on that too regarding Antny. Iso delayed the start of the day in order to accomodate the scum nightkill. He tried to deny it and claim that it was due to travel. Mods treat scum and town differently.
You can hate the method but you can't hate the result. I will use any tool at my disposal to catch scum. Speaking of results...
Join me on Anaklusmos and have it redirected to Bur.
That's a major logical fallacy. The fact that Antny was inactive for the whole of night means that he didn't visit the site over night. The fact that you thought he was scum for this action, and he turned out to be scum does not mean he did that because he was scum.
-------------------------------------------------------
Tapping/DV makes me feel like Tapping really really isn't reading the game. I'm inclined to agree with DV that TS is scummy for that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Except apparently for responding to D_V. I really hate just blanket ignoring a player, especially when he doesn't deserve that from you. He is just trying to play the game, and quitting like that just grinds my gears in the worst way. The only time I could maybe see that is if he was making personal insults against you, but that't not what he did at all. It reeks to me of not having a response to his case, and as such you are just trying to find a way to respond to it at all.
Vote: Jobie to vote IMAB (though they are backwards alphabetically in the player list)
D_V's case is embarrasingly bad. I don't have to refute it because it's a case so bad that it gets refuted by even casual observation.
For example D_V insists that I lied about him changing his avatar. But wait....
In the interest of getting our facts right... you did switch avatars at some point since the start of this game day, correct, D_V? I'm pretty sure I recall it being different at the beginning. Was it just the once, or have you switched more than once?
D_V?
Says IABM is lying but then admits later that he did in fact change his avatar.
Damn. There are witnesses so D_V changes his story to that he never changed his avatar at all to he only changed it once! Looks like D_V is taking his cues from George Orwell's 1984. Next he'll tell us that he's never changed his avatar at all and it's always been the way it is now just like how we've always been at war with Eastasia...
D_V insists that I was accusing people of making cases against people before they got their role pm's. Let's review from before...
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
Nope. The "voting outside the game" was based on vote AFTER the game had started. I addressed the accusation D_V is dredging up in post 74. Over 500+ posts ago. Then D_V tries to double down except...I also addressed this further in post 328. So D_V's false accusations have been addressed not just once but twice!
And these are just using posts that are already in the game to refute D_V's accusations with casual observations. I don't even have to go into details because D_V's false accusations are just blatant. I know that there's more to d_v drek but he's on ignore and it's not even worth reading.
Lastly D_V insists that "he's not here" because he can't get votes. But it's entirely possible that the votes d_v gets are simply invisible. As an aside lol@tomsloger for being so naive as to not realize such a possibility.
Again. None of this is ultimately relevant to me because D_V is not able to control his own content. I'd rather put him on ignore than read unreliable posts. Here's what I do know. Townies and scum can make garbage cases. Scum are much more likely to agree with garbage cases than townies. And lol at you thinking I'm afraid of a case and chose to dismiss it as opposed to addressing it. It's the type of case that dismisses itself if you read the game.
Tapping/DV makes me feel like Tapping really really isn't reading the game. I'm inclined to agree with DV that TS is scummy for that.
You are joking right? Did you do an Iso on D_V yet? I have and left minor comments. He got caught in several lies with IABM, he isn't coming across particularly clever nor engaged this game. The fact that you are jumping onto his false accusations against me is disappointing as I have you as lean town. You should be working harder to see through blatant lies and misreps.
What part of the game exactly am I "not reading"? Why, in particular are you ignoring the outright lies that D_V has been spreading through the chat? If D_V is telling the truth why has he shown no interest in pursuing Hans for a disagreement over what day it is? Do you think it's ok for D_V to say he doesn't question liars? Seems bad, no?
Damn. There are witnesses so D_V changes his story to that he never changed his avatar at all to he only changed it once! Looks like D_V is taking his cues from George Orwell's 1984. Next he'll tell us that he's never changed his avatar at all and it's always been the way it is now just like how we've always been at war with Eastasia...
I never once refuted that I changed my avatar.
D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat.He's changed his avatar several times this game.
This is what I am refuting.
You sir are a liar and have been caught.
Quit acting like I am refuting something else.
Nope. The "voting outside the game" was based on vote AFTER the game had started. I addressed the accusation D_V is dredging up in post 74. Over 500+ posts ago. Then D_V tries to double down except...I also addressed this further in post 328. So D_V's false accusations have been addressed not just once but twice!
Also we went over this.
Both of those players are in the game. You once again are lying to say they are out of the game.
Both Rod Serling and Taredas are in the game. You claimed they were not and voted people and tried to start a wagon on them for this very reason! They were never in the game.
We even had this conversation and then you decided to ignore me.
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
I've said it many times, I'll say it again though for the deaf. I see no reason currently, why it would. For one to attack someone and say ask them if they are even reading this game and then to ask that question quite silly indeed. You sir are a not a very good trickster or a liar, since you seem to think things happening in this game are not.
Furthermore Taredas is in this game,
Waiting to see if Darth Melvin happens to get replaced. Otherwise the vote should have said leukovirus to equate to Taredas.
Furthermore it is very possible Rod Serling is in this game as an NPC.
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
If you think it's a scumtell (and I agree with you on that part), then why didn't you vote me for voting Taredas?
I missed it.
Unvote: Jobie
Vote: Prophylaxis
Jobie has a conceivable reason for his action with his vote on an NPC. Why did you vote Taredas? Also do you have links to the previous MindScrew Mafia games?
You even denoted it here.
Forgetting ones own words.
Tsk tsk.
Try again sir.
Who has voted a player outside of this game?
What does one have to do to get you to stop lying?
Damn. There are witnesses so D_V changes his story to that he never changed his avatar at all to he only changed it once! Looks like D_V is taking his cues from George Orwell's 1984. Next he'll tell us that he's never changed his avatar at all and it's always been the way it is now just like how we've always been at war with Eastasia...
I never once refuted that I changed my avatar.
D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat.He's changed his avatar several times this game.
This is what I am refuting.
You sir are a liar and have been caught.
Quit acting like I am refuting something else.
Nope. The "voting outside the game" was based on vote AFTER the game had started. I addressed the accusation D_V is dredging up in post 74. Over 500+ posts ago. Then D_V tries to double down except...I also addressed this further in post 328. So D_V's false accusations have been addressed not just once but twice!
Also we went over this.
Both of those players are in the game. You once again are lying to say they are out of the game.
Both Rod Serling and Taredas are in the game. You claimed they were not and voted people and tried to start a wagon on them for this very reason! They were never in the game.
We even had this conversation and then you decided to ignore me.
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
I've said it many times, I'll say it again though for the deaf. I see no reason currently, why it would. For one to attack someone and say ask them if they are even reading this game and then to ask that question quite silly indeed. You sir are a not a very good trickster or a liar, since you seem to think things happening in this game are not.
Furthermore Taredas is in this game,
Waiting to see if Darth Melvin happens to get replaced. Otherwise the vote should have said leukovirus to equate to Taredas.
Furthermore it is very possible Rod Serling is in this game as an NPC.
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
If you think it's a scumtell (and I agree with you on that part), then why didn't you vote me for voting Taredas?
I missed it.
Unvote: Jobie
Vote: Prophylaxis
Jobie has a conceivable reason for his action with his vote on an NPC. Why did you vote Taredas? Also do you have links to the previous MindScrew Mafia games?
You even denoted it here.
Forgetting ones own words.
Tsk tsk.
Try again sir.
Who has voted a player outside of this game?
What does one have to do to get you to stop lying?
To be fair D_V you are also rubbing me the wrong way with your blatant attempts to misrep others. Did you change your avatar or not? Yes, you did. If I said "This man should be in jail for murdering people!" and then you say "You are a liar" then after more probing you finally abmit..."Well yes, I did kill A PERSON, not PEOPLE"....give us a break here old sport.
If you are on the true blue side then why are you trying to spread discord? You never answered my questions about your Hans (lack of) reaction.
You can hate the method but you can't hate the result. I will use any tool at my disposal to catch scum.
Except apparently for responding to D_V.
QFT
@imab DV's case on you is better than any you have made this game. by a lot.
why are you ignoring him exactly?
tapping still scummy.
DV still crazy like a fox.
Well if a case has tom's seal of approval then it must be confirmed terrible. And despite you disapproving of my methods I wouldn't be caught dead using setup speculation to clear a player in a bastard game using erroneous assumptions. Have you ever been nightkilled because of the scum team felt you were a threat?
Well if a case has tom's seal of approval then it must be confirmed terrible.
i guess i should clarify.
i dont think DV's case is amazing. i think yours are horrendous.
but go ahead. attack the player not the argument. thats not a fallacy or anything.
Yeah, that was a low blow and I expected to get called on it after re-reading. Unlike Necarg I cannot edit a post.
I am ignoring him because his post restriction makes his posts completely unreliable. I found his case to be so laughably bad that nobody could have posted it in earnest.
Yeah, that was a low blow and I expected to get called on it after re-reading. Unlike Necarg I cannot edit a post.
I am ignoring him because his post restriction makes his posts completely unreliable. I found his case to be so laughably bad that nobody could have posted it in earnest.
since when have you worried about low blows?
as far as i can tell, "low blows and blustery self-confidence" is totally your game
i am going to implore you, scum or not, to un-ignore DV. yes, his posts are unreliable.
but you know what? so are everyone else's. scum has an agenda. town is uninformed.
i see nothing that tells me DV is less likely to give something useful than anyone else.
i find you vaguely slimy, but im still unsure about your alignment in this game.
i do, however, respect your fearlessness. and ignoring the person accusing you is cowardly and antitown. so ******* stop it, or youve made the decision for me.
and in case anyone was wondering, this is not secretly directed at tapping. his professed reason is that i make him uncomfortable, which is either an admission of guilt or completely irrelevant. so whatever.
Yeah, that was a low blow and I expected to get called on it after re-reading. Unlike Necarg I cannot edit a post.
I am ignoring him because his post restriction makes his posts completely unreliable. I found his case to be so laughably bad that nobody could have posted it in earnest.
since when have you worried about low blows?
as far as i can tell, "low blows and blustery self-confidence" is totally your game
i am going to implore you, scum or not, to un-ignore DV. yes, his posts are unreliable.
but you know what? so are everyone else's. scum has an agenda. town is uninformed.
i see nothing that tells me DV is less likely to give something useful than anyone else.
i find you vaguely slimy, but im still unsure about your alignment in this game.
i do, however, respect your fearlessness. and ignoring the person accusing you is cowardly and antitown. so ******* stop it, or youve made the decision for me.
and in case anyone was wondering, this is not secretly directed at tapping. his professed reason is that i make him uncomfortable, which is either an admission of guilt or completely irrelevant. so whatever.
No, I think your PLAY is bad, borderline horrendous. At this point you are not fun to participate with (based on excessive tunneling and refusal to engage in honest dialogue). There is a reason you get killed so early in every game and has been noted you aren't eating night kills, you are getting lynched and or vigg'ed because Jobie can't stand you either.
wait, I am refusing to engage?
point me to your answer to why im neutral. point me to your responses to my case. i am very sorry i missed them.
and stop with the tunnelling thing. ive spent significantly less time scumreading you than vice versa in our games together. the only difference is i dont complain about it and always get it right in the end.
Sorry, meat world got real for a bit. I will be back to answer Imab tonight. The wife is gone on a girl's night out and I will be free to respond more in depth.
Sorry, meat world got real for a bit. I will be back to answer Imab tonight. The wife is gone on a girl's night out and I will be free to respond more in depth.
Hunt~Who are considering for the lynch? Plus reasoning.
@Necarg Interesting that you say that town arguments get heated and last a while, to me the Tom vs. TS debate has been the longest lasting and most heated portion of this day so far. Maybe the number of posts isn't as high as you usually see, but remember we are one week into the game, there has only been so much time to argue.
My point is that the fight has already practically ended. There's not much action left. These fights (at least the ones I've seen in the past) don't end easily or quickly when they're Town v Town, so I don't think both are town.
Knowing that, which of the two do you think are scum? I know you said you are re-reading, but I don't recall seeing your answer to this.
I'm not done rereading (will be by the weekend), but my gut instinct is Tom. Looking at TS's more recent content, though, I'm not liking him as much.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
@GJ: Can you tell us anything about this mysterious voice you're hearing other than what it's telling you? Is it a player that is/was/should be in this game?
Yes :). Although I am uncertain what relationship we have, or if she will eventually be allowed into this shard.
(in respect to pro-nouns and stuff. As far as I am concerned, you are all data robots that are simply pixelated until I meet someone in person to disprove this theory. That said, understood.)
Quote from DV »
We are in 1950's hunting down General Mao.
Azreal why have you lied to us your constituents about your role?
:/. That is not super helpful...
Quote from TS »
I have a feeling this vote count thing has another trick to it. In any even we should as a group try to compile a list of likely scum and start working forward from there.
I don't see how 20+ however many people in this game are to agree on a single person. Doing so likely will have no effect, although I wouldn't mind seeing momentum build on a single person for at least a little while, so it gets easier to analyze. Vote counts would also be more useful...
"My case against TS is weak and my confidence in it was fake" that makes you just sort of shrug your shoulders and say ok?
The question becomes "why admit that"? There were so many ways to back off of you, whether it would be the many people calling TS/Tom town on town, admitting he was wrong, all of which not claiming his confidance was not some simple bravado technique. Yes it's bad, but not scummy I would say.
And I thought I had Tom more leaning scum....GAH
Quote from DV »
I am going to be as frank as I know how to be.
You are not playing the game.
If you were you would know that to vote Businessman you have to vote Jobie.
Looking at a vote count would tell you this. Even though Tom also pointed this out.(But you don't want to read this because you are having a hissy fit)
Point blank, I doubt I am going to remember who I have to vote in a week to get at a particular player. It hurts my head to think about and just reeks as annoying, rather than information I need to know. Accusing him of not playing the game seems really far out there.
@Ghosting: With tom in the wind, who is your next strongest read and why?
@Imab: I take 6 classes (with a bunch of tests this week, also my major is Biochem so they aren't easy classes), bartend 30 hours a week as well as have an internship, have a girlfriend, had no internet for three days, a social life, etc. Please don't use real world conflicts to cast suspicion on me. Alternatively, I could not update and just ghost on you guys, but I am updating to confirm that while I am really busy, I plan to make up for that. I apologise that I've had a busy week, but when my choices are study for multiple tests in multiple classes, complete homework, etc. or read a game of Mafia, the latter obviously isn't going to be my first choice. I actually thought this was against the rules to do, but maybe I'm wrong/thinking of another site. It might seem like I'm making a lot of excuses, but it's been...2 days? Maybe 3?
@Tom: I actually think you are town now based on two ongoing games and what seems to be your very aggressive town play. There's other things as well that I will be posting tonight after school (sorry that I'm in in class right now and unable to post a huge post, I hope it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers Imab, lol).
If you were you would know that to vote Businessman you have to vote Jobie.
Is it your ability that is doing this? If not, why are you sure that it is the votes themselves that are being redirected, and not just the display of the votes?
We haven't lynched anyone, and until we do, or someone claims, we won't know for sure that putting a majority of votes on Jobie will actually lynch imabusinessman and not Jobie.
Sorry, meat world got real for a bit. I will be back to answer Imab tonight. The wife is gone on a girl's night out and I will be free to respond more in depth.
Hunt~Who are considering for the lynch? Plus reasoning.
What was the point of this? He has stated that he will be posting content tonight, so you... ask him to post content? "Who are you considering for a lynch" isn't a specific relevant issue that you want him to address. This just feels like busywork posting.
You also haven't responded yet to my post 616. Do you still want to try to direct Nacho's governing today? Why or why not?
--
Without stepping directly into the ongoing slapfight:
- imabusinessman: posting terrible, ad hom arguments. He's been consistent, at least. I have no read on him for town/scum, but certainly don't plan to follow his lead until he can provide more reasoned arguments - although 630 at least managed to clarify his position towards D_V somewhat.
- D_V: really not as obscure in broad strokes as some have been insisting. He did manage to undermine his own attack on imab by refusing to acknowledge the valid points that imab was attempting to make mountains out of. Ironically enough, using a similar style for his own attack on imab. No strong reason yet to believe townie/scum, will need to be revisited when/if he fully arrives in the game.
@Johnny: I have the night off (for once, finally...), so I'll be going into more detail, but for now I have Tapping as less town and more scummy, but mostly in the middle. His play reminds me a LOT of my town play when I started playing Mafia, but the fact he is pushing so hard for everyone's town/scum reads without providing his own first screams cautious scum play to me (not wanting to post a list that disagrees with what most people like, as to make it easier to agree, buddy with certain players, and find/build a train based on what most people agree with). However, I have done that before as town, so I am not fully convinced. Additionally, he said that Tom is "confirmed scum" based on his behaviour. Nobody is confirmed scum, and Tom's behaviour might be annoying to TS, but he even says that this is normal of town Tom, yet still calls it scummy. This kind of behaviour is only detrimental to the town. Calling Tom a low hanging fruit that can easily be lynched at any point sounds...very opportunist. Like, it's okay guys, let's focus on anyone else, then later we can get Tom. Also, I started doing a quick one and have seen a LOT of him asking players who they think is town/scum, which is usually a bad sign. With all of that in mind, his eagerness could be town trying to scum hunt. Like I said, I've done this before, and have been called out for it in the past. Hence me wanting to do a comprehensive reread of him. I think everyone would be interested in seeing a diagram of his opinions/votes.
I am fairly confident you are town/beneficial to town because of the mysterious voices you hear. I don't want you to confirm this, but I think the voice you hear is Prophylaxis.
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
If you were you would know that to vote Businessman you have to vote Jobie.
Is it your ability that is doing this? If not, why are you sure that it is the votes themselves that are being redirected, and not just the display of the votes?
We haven't lynched anyone, and until we do, or someone claims, we won't know for sure that putting a majority of votes on Jobie will actually lynch imabusinessman and not Jobie.
Sorry, meat world got real for a bit. I will be back to answer Imab tonight. The wife is gone on a girl's night out and I will be free to respond more in depth.
Hunt~Who are considering for the lynch? Plus reasoning.
What was the point of this? He has stated that he will be posting content tonight, so you... ask him to post content? "Who are you considering for a lynch" isn't a specific relevant issue that you want him to address. This just feels like busywork posting.
You also haven't responded yet to my post 616. Do you still want to try to direct Nacho's governing today? Why or why not?
--
Without stepping directly into the ongoing slapfight:
- imabusinessman: posting terrible, ad hom arguments. He's been consistent, at least. I have no read on him for town/scum, but certainly don't plan to follow his lead until he can provide more reasoned arguments - although 630 at least managed to clarify his position towards D_V somewhat.
- D_V: really not as obscure in broad strokes as some have been insisting. He did manage to undermine his own attack on imab by refusing to acknowledge the valid points that imab was attempting to make mountains out of. Ironically enough, using a similar style for his own attack on imab. No strong reason yet to believe townie/scum, will need to be revisited when/if he fully arrives in the game.
Wait what? Hunt said he will be posting soon so in anticipation of that I asked for his ideas and reasoning on possible scum. How is that busy work? Since when is it a bad thing to prod a less active player to prodyce reads?
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
Missed this question...
"Pre-planned" defense is the type of statement that makes my skin crawl. It can be used on literally any defense a person makes.
Also Hunt, if you had to pick between three people to lynch which three would you choose.
@Nachomamma8
People whom I would like to see "governored" to discern their alignment...
Bur
Tomsloger
leukovirus-can't seem to get a read based on posts. Will try to interact more with but a governor is a cheap shortcut
7Hawk77-paranoid
I had to look this one up: Burden of Proficiency.
Is that actually what he's accusing you of? I thought it was a meta argument, combined with some bragging.
Thanks for the response, but you really need to start paying more attention to D_V. From the hints he's dropped, plus the fact that the player numbers in the first post skip over 5) (the spot where D_V would fit, alphabetically), he's certainly a player in this game, and will not remain off the player list forever - possibly not even past tomorrow morning. Please don't just ignore him.
Good luck.
Welcome to several pages ago! Question for you, though. You said "vig", here. Vigs are normally town. Why did you believe a townie would shoot Proph?
Yeah, this isn't going to be confusing at all.
Per my comment to Bur above, I'm reading the hints D_V is dropping as indicating that he's not permanently off the player list, but will be entering the thread fully soon. Say, on the Second Day.
Sigh. Ghosting, I don't suppose he responded to you privately while handling this? I'd really like to resolve the Tom situation you've created so that we can move on.
I see no point in interacting with D_V. He's not fully in control of his own posts. As exemplified already he's making comments that are inaccurate at best and false at worse. But if he doesn't have full control over his posts then there's very little that can be done. And if he's faking his Post Restriction there's literally nothing we can do about it since our votes on him don't matter at this juncture. I'll take him off ignore on the next day but the things he's saying today are not reliable.
@7hawk77
@DoTArchon
@RobRoy
@Anaklusmos
Can I get a list of the people you'd like to have Nacho govern. I agree with TappingStones that we should get a list together.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
That's not as huge a loss as you may think it is. Tom's the definition of low hanging fruit. Tom will find a way to die. His is I belueve his 6th game and never seen a day three.
You let me worry about Tom. Please work on a list of.potential players to use the govern ability on. It would be extra useful if you iso players that havent been discussed much.
Just so my ideas are out in the open, I wouldnt mind revealing on Bur or Hunt (they are often mislynched and Id prefer that doesnt happen here), Necarg and Hans (self confessed that they are bad at and hate day ones), possibly Hawk because I am null on him, DOTA if we dont get any more posts from him.
In terms of Tom I have a paranoid thought based on him supposedly selecting the number for who gets votes. He might have something like night action change the number, one shot twilight change it back to normal which would kill me. This idea gained more traction with me because he was playing too much like a jester. Piling votes onto himself and then switch it to me would be a great.mind screw and not poorly playing at this point.
Again likely paranoia but Id like to see a lynch or pardon occur before I get too comfortable.
Sure. It consists of:
- people Nacho is willing to Govern.
I've explained this before, but I do not agree that Nacho should allow the town to dictate his decision. If we have town!Nacho, then any decision he makes - right or wrong - is 100% intended to help the town, and I'd rather trust that than a decision made by the general public. If we have scum!Nacho, then I want to get all the reads I can from him to try to nail him, and letting him subordinate himself to the town is a good way to avoid responsibility.
Finally, we need to remember that using Nacho's ability will use up the town's lynch for the day. That lynch - who is willing to see who dead - is one of our main tools for determining the alignment of our fellows. I believe that having that vote not be for a death, but instead for a reveal, will make people more cavalier about their decisions, and mean that we can't trust reads nearly as much as we would otherwise.
There are still circumstances where I'd be happy to see Nacho use his ability - for example, if we guess wrong on the displaced votes, and end up lynching the wrong person - but I want the decision to be specifically Nacho's.
So, to be explicit: you are withdrawing the accusation you 100% know Tom to be scum, and we should continue the game as though you had not made that accusation?
For the record, this is exactly what I was talking about above, about players being cavalier. Tapping just said that he is willing to end the day in order to confirm the alignment of any of six players, including ones he believes to be town and ones on which he says he doesn't have much of a read. I really want to keep the lynch limited to those we think should be dead, and Nacho can take responsibility for a veto if he thinks it's warranted.
@7hawk777, @tomsloger: can you please let me know which games you have been in together?
Nacho already said he doesnt want to use the ability on the most scummy or most towny person, remember? And you,are saying that you want the choice to be his, right?
Secondly, this is very preliminary. I put up names that make sense to me but others might disagree. I could see myself fighting pretty hard for certain people.
I indeed want the choice to be completely his.
If you're a townie, the only thing you should be fighting hard for is to see that your scum reads are lynched. Do you think you know who scum is? Great! Run them up the flagpole and tell Nacho to stand back, 'cause they deserve to die. If you don't know who scum is, then keep looking, because any plan that involves assuming a Governing is happening today is inherently flawed.
May I ask what your plan is? I think mine is quite reasonable. I dont like your idea of giving Nacho the chouce here. For example Nacho might be scum and U push Necarg, now assuming they are both scum in this scenario we get to see nachos ability in action and a free look at a player. This in no way gives nacho town cred as his hand is forced.
@TS Can you clarify this statement for me
@GJ: Don't know if you missed it, I had a question for you in 555...
As I said, Tom is low hanging fruit. Id rather Ghosting(and others) not spend all their time on him. He's dead as soon as we say he is.
1. Same applies in this game and any posts from Tar that start with Poimt of order can be ignored as deliberately misleading/false (apart from red text within those posts maybe?)
2. The opposite applies here as a way to screw with anyone who reads the old games, and only those posts are actually Tar.
3. Neither applies and he's doing it just to screw with us.
Okay, let's compare. You're positing a hypothetical where Nacho is scum, and where we are pushing scum!Necarg as the lynch choice.
Case 1: scum!Nacho has agreed in advance to a governing. He casually whistles while pardoning scum!Necarg. Necarg lives for an extra day, and we get literally no information on Nacho.
Case 2: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's worth saving Necarg. Necarg lives for an additional day, and Nacho is forced to justify his decision to us... hopefully leading to his eventual lynch.
Case 3: scum!Nacho is forced to make his own decision on governing. He decides it's not worth saving Necarg. Necarg dies, any potential night actions he has die with him, and our Day 3 lynch isn't spoken for.
While an argument can be made as to whether we would prefer Case 2 or Case 3, either is strictly better than Case 1. Arguments?
My plan - as you refer to it - is to try to lynch scum. Right now I think my best shot at that is 7hawk77, and I'm planning to put together a case on him today. I'm kind of hoping to get an answer on his history with Tom before then, but not enough to delay posting the attack once it's ready. If he gets run up for a lynch, then Nacho can make his pardon decision then.
Yeah, lynching the wrong person as a result of the displaced votes is a situation where I would likely support a Governing, as I mentioned in 607. Still want it to be Nacho's decision, though.
I am going to be as frank as I know how to be.
You are not playing the game.
If you were you would know that to vote Businessman you have to vote Jobie.
Looking at a vote count would tell you this. Even though Tom also pointed this out.(But you don't want to read this because you are having a hissy fit)
This is the post that is a lie.
Once again you are not even reading this game.
If you are a town member then you really got to play better. Either way as a player you need to play better. You don't know whats going on in this game. And furthermore you are a detriment to the town because you are ignoring a player because you want to have a temper tantrum. Grow up. Play better.
You can't even tell me why I say its not the second day.
@7hawk77:
First off, I would still like to know what your game history with tomsloger is.
In 151, you said this to explain your naked vote on Tom:
His response to you is here. What about that did you find to be crap? What did he say that made you wonder if you were wrong about him?
Why did you believe hansanator to be townie? Is this still true?
Yes, exactly. I will explain when the game ends, but for now just pretend it never happened. My apologies.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Well, at least we got some reactions out of it. I'm more well-inclined towards Tom now than I was before. He didn't flail or counterattack when you posted that you were 100% sure he was scum; instead he just kept playing the game. Props, Tom.
and thanks for the props.
@ghosting so are we, like, cool now? i still sort of think youre scum, but nowhere close to %100
@DV
I'm personally getting exhaused with the excuse making. Even when I was phone posting in WW: CLASSIC I tried to have some sort of content. Your posts just to make excuses is reminding me a lot of EtR from that game.
FoS: Ghosting.
vote: Anaklusmos
Redirecting to Bur.
Not, like, mafia scummy. Like Donald Trump scummy.
We're the uninformed majority competing against the informed minority. I will take any and all advantages I can get. Furthermore there's a townie method for dealing with limited time and a scummy method for dealing with limited time. Take me for example. In WW Classic even though I had limited time I tried to make that limited time count. Compare that to Ghosting/EtR. Lots of time to make "gonna catch up" posts not enough time to make even minimalist content. Oh and if that grinds your gears check out this message I sent to ISO.
Yeah, I never had a chance to share this one but I was right on that too regarding Antny. Iso delayed the start of the day in order to accomodate the scum nightkill. He tried to deny it and claim that it was due to travel. Mods treat scum and town differently.
You can hate the method but you can't hate the result. I will use any tool at my disposal to catch scum. Speaking of results...
Join me on Anaklusmos and have it redirected to Bur.
But I digress. doing that ***** doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for you, so whatever.
talk to me about bur. How is this different than every other bur game I've ever seen?
Knowing that, which of the two do you think are scum? I know you said you are re-reading, but I don't recall seeing your answer to this.
You have an interesting definition of confirmed, believe him to be scum as much as you like but that is in no way confirmed. Are you truly that confident in your read?
Is this vote intended for Jobie, or is it meant to be redirected, if you are buying into Tom's statements about the vote shifting? If Jobie, why him?
@IMAB Attacking people for out of game stuff can be valid, when its actually provable. Something like role PM's causing claims that don't fit with the towns PM's (I caught Buranri that way forever ago), etc. With the time, you had a hunch, but it was truly nothing beyond a hunch. Sure, you wound up being right, but it was just a guess. Using it as justification for every theory you come up with just makes whatever you are saying lose its punch.
Except apparently for responding to D_V. I really hate just blanket ignoring a player, especially when he doesn't deserve that from you. He is just trying to play the game, and quitting like that just grinds my gears in the worst way. The only time I could maybe see that is if he was making personal insults against you, but that't not what he did at all. It reeks to me of not having a response to his case, and as such you are just trying to find a way to respond to it at all.
Vote: Jobie to vote IMAB (though they are backwards alphabetically in the player list)
That is a good point. Although I'd say common town reads are more likely than common scum reads in a lot of situations.
True that he's understandable... but it seems like he's also being prevented from talking about some things. I suppose maybe he's just not being as open as I would expect of someone with a PR but I was hoping maybe Tomorrow he would be more helpful. Lynching Az is always the best plan in all situations. Ok. So I feel like my distrust/paranoia in the way of Nacho is more justified now.
PTAP followed by nonposting is not my fave, Hunt. C'mon man.
Modgod: Prod to Hunt, please? It's been 2 days since the PTAP.
This post seems a little off. I have some questions/comments on this.
1) You say that Hawk had some posts that felt natural, but you give him a Null. Are natural posts not a towntell to you? Further, you specify for several people that you can't remember them doing things (Null)... so if natural posts IS a towntell for you, how does natural posts + can't remember content only end as null?
7)I don't recall lack of active participation being a scumtell for GJ, especially early D1. I've always got the impression that he's kinda like me in that no matter what is alignment he would prefer to participate than to not.
8)You say he's buddying with TS... but have him Null. Is Town buddying with Town a thing? Buddying is typically a scum thing and therefore the Null judgment on him seems weird.
14) "Not impressed" def has negative connotation... but again you have him Null. Explain?
16) Why is Necarg lean scum for you're lack of being impressed with him if leuko is Null for the same thing?
19) Why is he Null to Lean town though? You don't specify.
Just because you're scumhunting in addition to asking us to spend a bunch of time trying to figure out the mod dichotomy doesn't make asking us to spend a bunch of time on the mod dichotomy not a bad thing to do.
I grant you that I believe Az to be holding something crucial back. He's been pretty forthcoming but there's prob something very important he's not telling us about his abilities that is likely bad for us.
And the way you were going on about it implied that you thought it was a worthy avenue. That's why I mentioned it.
Yes. That's what I'm saying. I said all that, and meant it. I dislike the negative connotation you're putting on this, but maybe you just misunderstand?
Yes/ That's what I'm saying. I dislike the negative connotation you're putting on this, but maybe you just misunderstand. I'll reexplain.
Being helpful (reposting a votecount, confirming a fact) is fine. We're all nice people and sometimes we help each other out. Being OVERLY helpful (Posting a votecount in each of your posts, delving into old games to find old rules) is just a bit much that most people don't do unless doing it for some reward... like town points.
And yea, you're not doing much of it. You didn't, say, post links to all the Mind Screw games, followed by all the rules. All you did was click the links and grab the rules. But at the same time, if you didn't no one else likely would have.
So are you saying you would NOT wanna spend any time talking about it Today?
Who is your preferred target for your ability? And if that person turns up town, who should we lynch after that?
I don't think anyone but a major scumread is plausible personally. Lynching our second-best scumread is suboptimal D1.
Also I wanted to know if you could pardon youself. Can you?
There's been at least one votecounts worth of evidence. Tom's correct in the way the votecounts seem to work.
The only thing that's contested is whether the voters names are what count as votes, or if the numericals do. The numericals make the most sense.
Ohhhh ok. So maybe it IS a game mechanic then. Which means it moves. Cool. Good to know.
I'd say assume everything not in red (and possibly blue) should be taken with a grain of salt.
That's a major logical fallacy. The fact that Antny was inactive for the whole of night means that he didn't visit the site over night. The fact that you thought he was scum for this action, and he turned out to be scum does not mean he did that because he was scum.
-------------------------------------------------------
Tapping/DV makes me feel like Tapping really really isn't reading the game. I'm inclined to agree with DV that TS is scummy for that.
I want to see Nacho's response to Rob re: BOP.
D_V's case is embarrasingly bad. I don't have to refute it because it's a case so bad that it gets refuted by even casual observation.
For example D_V insists that I lied about him changing his avatar. But wait....
Damn. There are witnesses so D_V changes his story to that he never changed his avatar at all to he only changed it once! Looks like D_V is taking his cues from George Orwell's 1984. Next he'll tell us that he's never changed his avatar at all and it's always been the way it is now just like how we've always been at war with Eastasia...
D_V insists that I was accusing people of making cases against people before they got their role pm's. Let's review from before...
Nope. The "voting outside the game" was based on vote AFTER the game had started. I addressed the accusation D_V is dredging up in post 74. Over 500+ posts ago. Then D_V tries to double down except...I also addressed this further in post 328. So D_V's false accusations have been addressed not just once but twice!
And these are just using posts that are already in the game to refute D_V's accusations with casual observations. I don't even have to go into details because D_V's false accusations are just blatant. I know that there's more to d_v drek but he's on ignore and it's not even worth reading.
Lastly D_V insists that "he's not here" because he can't get votes. But it's entirely possible that the votes d_v gets are simply invisible. As an aside lol@tomsloger for being so naive as to not realize such a possibility.
Again. None of this is ultimately relevant to me because D_V is not able to control his own content. I'd rather put him on ignore than read unreliable posts. Here's what I do know. Townies and scum can make garbage cases. Scum are much more likely to agree with garbage cases than townies. And lol at you thinking I'm afraid of a case and chose to dismiss it as opposed to addressing it. It's the type of case that dismisses itself if you read the game.
So my scumreads are...
Bur
DoTArchon
Anaklusmos
maybe scum
Nachomamma8
Ghosting
tomsloger
You are joking right? Did you do an Iso on D_V yet? I have and left minor comments. He got caught in several lies with IABM, he isn't coming across particularly clever nor engaged this game. The fact that you are jumping onto his false accusations against me is disappointing as I have you as lean town. You should be working harder to see through blatant lies and misreps.
What part of the game exactly am I "not reading"? Why, in particular are you ignoring the outright lies that D_V has been spreading through the chat? If D_V is telling the truth why has he shown no interest in pursuing Hans for a disagreement over what day it is? Do you think it's ok for D_V to say he doesn't question liars? Seems bad, no?
I never once refuted that I changed my avatar.
This is what I am refuting.
You sir are a liar and have been caught.
Quit acting like I am refuting something else.
Also we went over this.
Both of those players are in the game. You once again are lying to say they are out of the game.
Both Rod Serling and Taredas are in the game. You claimed they were not and voted people and tried to start a wagon on them for this very reason! They were never in the game.
We even had this conversation and then you decided to ignore me.
You know we had this conversation.
What does one have to do to get you to stop lying?
To be fair D_V you are also rubbing me the wrong way with your blatant attempts to misrep others. Did you change your avatar or not? Yes, you did. If I said "This man should be in jail for murdering people!" and then you say "You are a liar" then after more probing you finally abmit..."Well yes, I did kill A PERSON, not PEOPLE"....give us a break here old sport.
If you are on the true blue side then why are you trying to spread discord? You never answered my questions about your Hans (lack of) reaction.
@imab DV's case on you is better than any you have made this game. by a lot.
why are you ignoring him exactly?
tapping still scummy.
DV still crazy like a fox.
Well if a case has tom's seal of approval then it must be confirmed terrible. And despite you disapproving of my methods I wouldn't be caught dead using setup speculation to clear a player in a bastard game using erroneous assumptions. Have you ever been nightkilled because of the scum team felt you were a threat?
i dont think DV's case is amazing. i think yours are horrendous.
but go ahead. attack the player not the argument. thats not a fallacy or anything.
Yeah, that was a low blow and I expected to get called on it after re-reading. Unlike Necarg I cannot edit a post.
I am ignoring him because his post restriction makes his posts completely unreliable. I found his case to be so laughably bad that nobody could have posted it in earnest.
as far as i can tell, "low blows and blustery self-confidence" is totally your game
i am going to implore you, scum or not, to un-ignore DV. yes, his posts are unreliable.
but you know what? so are everyone else's. scum has an agenda. town is uninformed.
i see nothing that tells me DV is less likely to give something useful than anyone else.
i find you vaguely slimy, but im still unsure about your alignment in this game.
i do, however, respect your fearlessness. and ignoring the person accusing you is cowardly and antitown. so ******* stop it, or youve made the decision for me.
and in case anyone was wondering, this is not secretly directed at tapping. his professed reason is that i make him uncomfortable, which is either an admission of guilt or completely irrelevant. so whatever.
No, I think your PLAY is bad, borderline horrendous. At this point you are not fun to participate with (based on excessive tunneling and refusal to engage in honest dialogue). There is a reason you get killed so early in every game and has been noted you aren't eating night kills, you are getting lynched and or vigg'ed because Jobie can't stand you either.
Get better or be ignored.
point me to your answer to why im neutral. point me to your responses to my case. i am very sorry i missed them.
and stop with the tunnelling thing. ive spent significantly less time scumreading you than vice versa in our games together. the only difference is i dont complain about it and always get it right in the end.
Hunt~Who are considering for the lynch? Plus reasoning.
I'm not done rereading (will be by the weekend), but my gut instinct is Tom. Looking at TS's more recent content, though, I'm not liking him as much.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Yes :). Although I am uncertain what relationship we have, or if she will eventually be allowed into this shard.
(in respect to pro-nouns and stuff. As far as I am concerned, you are all data robots that are simply pixelated until I meet someone in person to disprove this theory. That said, understood.)
:/. That is not super helpful...
I don't see how 20+ however many people in this game are to agree on a single person. Doing so likely will have no effect, although I wouldn't mind seeing momentum build on a single person for at least a little while, so it gets easier to analyze. Vote counts would also be more useful...
The question becomes "why admit that"? There were so many ways to back off of you, whether it would be the many people calling TS/Tom town on town, admitting he was wrong, all of which not claiming his confidance was not some simple bravado technique. Yes it's bad, but not scummy I would say.
And I thought I had Tom more leaning scum....GAH
Point blank, I doubt I am going to remember who I have to vote in a week to get at a particular player. It hurts my head to think about and just reeks as annoying, rather than information I need to know. Accusing him of not playing the game seems really far out there.
@Ghosting: With tom in the wind, who is your next strongest read and why?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@Tom: I actually think you are town now based on two ongoing games and what seems to be your very aggressive town play. There's other things as well that I will be posting tonight after school (sorry that I'm in in class right now and unable to post a huge post, I hope it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers Imab, lol).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Is it your ability that is doing this? If not, why are you sure that it is the votes themselves that are being redirected, and not just the display of the votes?
We haven't lynched anyone, and until we do, or someone claims, we won't know for sure that putting a majority of votes on Jobie will actually lynch imabusinessman and not Jobie.
Thanks for the info. If still in progress, I'll avoid making any references to it, even if you are dead.
No. Lynching Cyan is the best plan in all situations.
What was the point of this? He has stated that he will be posting content tonight, so you... ask him to post content? "Who are you considering for a lynch" isn't a specific relevant issue that you want him to address. This just feels like busywork posting.
You also haven't responded yet to my post 616. Do you still want to try to direct Nacho's governing today? Why or why not?
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Without stepping directly into the ongoing slapfight:
- imabusinessman: posting terrible, ad hom arguments. He's been consistent, at least. I have no read on him for town/scum, but certainly don't plan to follow his lead until he can provide more reasoned arguments - although 630 at least managed to clarify his position towards D_V somewhat.
- D_V: really not as obscure in broad strokes as some have been insisting. He did manage to undermine his own attack on imab by refusing to acknowledge the valid points that imab was attempting to make mountains out of. Ironically enough, using a similar style for his own attack on imab. No strong reason yet to believe townie/scum, will need to be revisited when/if he fully arrives in the game.
I am fairly confident you are town/beneficial to town because of the mysterious voices you hear. I don't want you to confirm this, but I think the voice you hear is Prophylaxis.
Imab is probably one of the scummier players on my list right now. His post #630 and one right around that area where he calls D_V's case laughable and not worth even looking at, as well as one where he says D_V's case must be bad because Tom agrees with it (in general, kind of rude, lol, but that's not why I think it's scummy). His slightly scummy reads (these are actually my favourite reads to use when trying to determine a player's alignment) are three players who could have a train built on them if enough players backed it (me, Nacho, and Tom). His FoS of me for letting everyone know I would be busy for 2, maybe 3 days, is also very opportunist. Wouldn't respond to all of Bur's questions, I feel that players should respond to pretty much any question asked of them, cherry picking generally isn't a town trait. Also, he calls out RobRoy for saying he wants to look into me, when he thinks I'm worthy of suspicion (confirmed through the FoS). He also says in that post that he'd be down to lynch Nacho if more people were willing. If you think he is scum, you should build a case to convince others. That is the goal of town. The goal of town isn't to find whatever wagon is most popular and hop on whichever best suits your interests. Him trying to use voting someone outside of the game seems like reaching as well. If you look at the timeline of his posts, you'll see how quickly he goes from Az to Bur as well, despite very little occurring between then. Another opportunist impression.
There's more, and I apologise for how much that looks like a wall of text, phone posting since I'm in math right now.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Wait what? Hunt said he will be posting soon so in anticipation of that I asked for his ideas and reasoning on possible scum. How is that busy work? Since when is it a bad thing to prod a less active player to prodyce reads?
In regards to your Nacho question I think day one we should come to a concensus on someone to lynch and then in twilight if it turns out that their is a mindscrew effect Nacho can reveal on that player instead of lynching them. Does that come across clearly enough? Im tired, its past midnight here.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1