Hey DV: Will you be able to articulate more Tomorrow, or will you still have the PR? I'm tempted to delve though your posts and try to decrypt what you're trying to say, but if you can talk more tomorrow, we can just not lynch you today and call it good, then you can explain more tomorrow. If not obv I will make some notes.
One could try to lynch me today, but they would find trying to lynch a smile quite hard I would assume.
@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Just because I am not running the show doesn't mean I am not playing the game. I simply don't have a lead I want to pursue right now. My slight intrigue is why IMAB thinks everything DV said is a lie, but I am assuming there will be an explanation soon, or at least a vote and case against DV.
Do you mind repeating the questions? The pace of the game has been rather fast, and it would mean a lot to me
So, I'm going to revisit Tom vs. TS
The whole thing started before post 100 and is the majority of the thread.
I don't think they're on the same team. Normally a town v town argument is quite heated and lasts a long while. Yet, with this game, the fight has generally died down and it hasn't been as heated as I've seen these fights. I've seen fights infinitely more heated and last much longer than 10 pages. This isn't of that same caliber. I would say that it might just be calmer people, but even that doesn't make sense as TS's fights, even with Tom before, have been much more extensive and exhaustive. This isn't. It's a bit late, and I need to go to bed, but I think that we should look at Tom and TS's content apart from their scuffles first.
Also, did I mention that I have debate like every weekend? Because I do and that eats actually all of my time.
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
As an aside, I saw a Godfatherizer in Tar's last Mind Screw and don't want to give Mafia the opportunity to make themselves investigative-immune if they think that I'm going to govern a target, so I AM NOT GUARANTEED TO BE GOVERNING/REVEALING ON THE FIRST DAY. DO NOT TRUST MY RESULTS COMPLETELY EVEN AFTER I AM DEAD AND CONFIRMED TOWN.
Does this mean what I think it means, that you might just not use your ability D1?
@Rob & GJ: I don't think you answered my Governor question. How often have you seen a governor in a game that you recall?
Your post #437 is good. Is that the one you are referring to?
I don't think it's damning to Nacho or anything. It just makes me feel better about your mindset in this game and that you're picking out what town would think.
@Killjoy-Should we check Necarg for scum? Or since you are suspicious of Nacho what is your "goal" for today?
No, 452.
And as far as Necarg goes, his only real content post is 155. Having Nacho use his ability on him would be a waste, as Nec is basically a lurker.
I've got Anak leaning (He's made a few posts I've liked) , Tom is almost certainly (Reason already given), I've liked GJ's approach to the game thus far(His thought process has echoed my own on a few occasions). And as I write this, Rob makes some good posts.
The initial vote was because I didn't like the way that he claimed. He threw out information that was basically useless, and seemed to expect some credit for it. I've maintained it because of the phrasing of his attack on Ghosting - the "not completely sold" comment.
As for his claim, sure, I'm willing to believe him. He obviously got the information from somewhere, and from his other posts I don't think he's familiar enough with previous Mind Screws to just decide to riff off them. I believe his claim - I just don't trust him.
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
So, while I would very much like to be as open and straightforward as I can, the amount that I can is pretty circumscribed, not just by considerations of good sportsmanship, but by threat of mod-kill. And the reality is, as I've already alluded to, my role has multiple paths to victory. I could be the best friend of the good guys - there's all sorts of fun mischief we could get up to together- but I believe the scum might be able to find a way to make me wind up dead, and I need to stay alive to win. I don't think it'd be easy for them, but if they put their minds to it, they could probably make it happen, and I doubt the town could prevent that from happening indefinitely.
So if I do intervene too heavily on the side of the town, and make myself public enemy No. 1 for the scum, I probably lose this game. And I have no means of communicating privately with the scum even if I wanted to, so I don't have any plans to coordinate with them. It's possible we could work out a deal where I promise not to work with them in the future, but I don't know if it's a good idea to enter into anything like that right now, it's pretty dangerous.
So all of that leaves me on a very, very narrow tightrope walk.
All things considered, I'm currently coming down on the side of helping the town enough to make myself useful, but not enough to make the mafia pissed off enough to look for ways to knock me out.
While I don't want to antagonize the mafia too much, I would like to offer that we make some trades that would help insulate me from potential mafia interference on the one hand, and that would offer the town some extra night-time powers in recompense.
Here's how it works. During the day, I can target a player and specify a 1-shot ability. At the beginning of the night, the player I target is offered a "balanced, one-shot version" of the specified ability. They can "pay" for the ability by offering me heart, mind, or soul.
Heart reveals their alignment to me, but I've been told that if I claim that knowledge publicly, bad things may happen to me. So that seems pretty useless for all concerned.
Mind would let me have a 1-shot version of one of the players' abilities in trade. The other player chooses which ability I would get, and loses a single use of that ability. So, we could essentially swap some abilities in order to give the town some extra abilities that they want more. If someone wanted to offer me some kind of protective ability by trading mind, that would be cool.
If they pick soul, I have some built-in protection of my own that would become enabled. Essentially, I'd become more difficult to target - that's as much as I can safely say without making my ability so easily countered that it'd be pointless.
So what I'd most prefer is to have people trade me souls, since that gives me the best possible immunity to what the mafia can do to me in retaliation and doesn't take away any of the town's abilities either, but if we have to do minds instead, I'm less well-protected, and the town would be giving up abilities, but we could make it work as an alternative if need be.
Interesting.
Still want you to look at Nacho. Sad no one else is taking you up on this.
@KJ You bring up some good points about Nacho and reasoning to distrust him, but with his ability being confirmable, is that your preferred course of action for the day? If so, who should he use it on?
If we could reliably coordinate, I would rather use Kingmaker on a major Townread but that's asking a lot of people. It's much more reliable and less risky to attempt a lynch on a scumread and have Nacho pardon it to reveal alignment.
Here's my thought process here: Running up a likely Town to King is risky if !scumNacho, or otherwise if the scum have anything to mess with !townNacho's pardon. We don't know what the scum have, and running up Town based on just Nacho's word that he's trustworthy is a bad idea. If we run up a scumread instead, then even if !scumNacho (or the scum in the case of a !townNacho) messes with it, we're still lynching a scum.
Bur is potentially a good target, IMAB is another, especially after 482.
Actually... Nacho: ...can you pardon yourself? Having a public read on you would make me feel a whole lot better.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hey DV: Will you be able to articulate more Tomorrow, or will you still have the PR? I'm tempted to delve though your posts and try to decrypt what you're trying to say, but if you can talk more tomorrow, we can just not lynch you today and call it good, then you can explain more tomorrow. If not obv I will make some notes.
One could try to lynch me today, but they would find trying to lynch a smile quite hard I would assume.
Tomorrow, who knows!
Well, no. I don't WANT to lynch you. The point is that if you'll be able to articulate more Tomorrow, it's less work for me. You never answered my question, btw. Will the PR still be on you, as far as you know?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hey DV: Will you be able to articulate more Tomorrow, or will you still have the PR? I'm tempted to delve though your posts and try to decrypt what you're trying to say, but if you can talk more tomorrow, we can just not lynch you today and call it good, then you can explain more tomorrow. If not obv I will make some notes.
One could try to lynch me today, but they would find trying to lynch a smile quite hard I would assume.
Tomorrow, who knows!
Well, no. I don't WANT to lynch you. The point is that if you'll be able to articulate more Tomorrow, it's less work for me. You never answered my question, btw. Will the PR still be on you, as far as you know?
Hard to say in a game such as this.
One would assume though that these chains that hold me will not be broken.
@KJ The issue of course in that scenario is getting everyone to agree on a major town read to use the ability on, though I concur that would probably be the ideal course for the day.
@Necarg Interesting that you say that town arguments get heated and last a while, to me the Tom vs. TS debate has been the longest lasting and most heated portion of this day so far. Maybe the number of posts isn't as high as you usually see, but remember we are one week into the game, there has only been so much time to argue.
IMAB's response to DV is a very handwave-y dismissal of everything that DV posted about him, instead of actually responding to the case that he put together. Not inspiring confidence there.
@Necarg Interesting that you say that town arguments get heated and last a while, to me the Tom vs. TS debate has been the longest lasting and most heated portion of this day so far. Maybe the number of posts isn't as high as you usually see, but remember we are one week into the game, there has only been so much time to argue.
My point is that the fight has already practically ended. There's not much action left. These fights (at least the ones I've seen in the past) don't end easily or quickly when they're Town v Town, so I don't think both are town.
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
@ghosting i'll be very interested to hear this explanation.
but i assure you that i am town, so whatever you think you have is either incorrect or a lie. or youre being mindscrewed somehow.
and again, votes on me go to hawk.
@necarg well i never get heated. annoyed, sure. but never angry. remember that i know its just a game.
but i do agree that TS went through his planned reactions a little faster than he would have if they were natural. pulled the trigger on being totally done with me a little too soon imo.
@ghosting i'll be very interested to hear this explanation.
but i assure you that i am town, so whatever you think you have is either incorrect or a lie. or youre being mindscrewed somehow.
and again, votes on me go to hawk.
@necarg well i never get heated. annoyed, sure. but never angry. remember that i know its just a game.
but i do agree that TS went through his planned reactions a little faster than he would have if they were natural. pulled the trigger on being totally done with me a little too soon imo.
I am fairly confident that you are scum, just waiting on Taredas' reply. But thank you for letting me know who to vote, forgot about the weird voting scheme again.
I made a point about you in 476 that you didn't respond to - but I hadn't phrased it in the form of a question, so here goes.
In your post 47, you said that Nacho was "probably town (and not due to role reasons)." When imabusinessman questioned you on this, you responded in your post 365, saying that you thought he was townie because of his claimed role, and the way in which he claimed it.
There has been a lot of game since then. Has your opinion of Nacho changed since then? How do you feel about his posting? Are you still willing to believe that Nacho is townie if (as he has alluded to) he is not necessarily using his ability today?
There's not a single truthful statement in post 493. However I noticed D_V's avatar has changed. It could be that D_V has an "angel" aspect and a "devil" aspect.
That's some wild speculation. And while I'm not sold on D_V's attack on you, I do want you to specifically address one part of it:
accidentally quoted hans instead of tapping in my last post, sorry. doing it from my phone and i just woke up so formatting got screwy
@imab what tipped the scales for you for into thinking no lynch/governer is a good plan. im still on the fence
Usually I have some good scumreads by now. All of my scumreads have evaporated and I'm feeling lost. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a question or two. Otherwise I might have to resort to some generic catchall questions I've kept around that I hate having to use.
There is an apparent inconsistency here, where you were down on D_V before this post (206), and seemed to be chasing him in posts afterwards, but here said that your scumreads had evaporated. Why? Did D_V do things around this time that made your opinion of him waffle?
Hey DV: Will you be able to articulate more Tomorrow, or will you still have the PR? I'm tempted to delve though your posts and try to decrypt what you're trying to say, but if you can talk more tomorrow, we can just not lynch you today and call it good, then you can explain more tomorrow. If not obv I will make some notes.
He's honestly not being that obscure. His verbiage is a touch obtuse, but I think anything non-self-referential he has posted has made his opinions known.
@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Just because I am not running the show doesn't mean I am not playing the game. I simply don't have a lead I want to pursue right now. My slight intrigue is why IMAB thinks everything DV said is a lie, but I am assuming there will be an explanation soon, or at least a vote and case against DV.
I dislike this mindset, at least partly because if everyone employs it, the game stagnates.
So, I'm going to revisit Tom vs. TS
...
It's a bit late, and I need to go to bed, but I think that we should look at Tom and TS's content apart from their scuffles first.
Also, did I mention that I have debate like every weekend? Because I do and that eats actually all of my time.
Are you asking us to revisit this, or are you planning to? I understand other commitments, and there is a lot of Tom vs Tapping - I'm just asking you to set our expectations correctly. Are you going to be re-reading the Tom/TS slapfights, or are you asking others to?
@Rob & GJ: I don't think you answered my Governor question. How often have you seen a governor in a game that you recall?
Apologies, I don't recall seeing this question. Not terribly often - I think they have come up as an ability in a Xyre or something, but can't recall a specific instance off the top of my head.
in case anyone besides me was wondering, to vote imab you must vote jobie.
im starting to see why my fake confidence made some people scumread me.
Whoa! We are not sure about this yet.
What we have determined, through observation, is that a vote on Jobie will cause the displayed votes on imab to go up. What we are not sure about is what will happen at the lynch. If we get a majority of players voting for Jobie, will imab be lynched because he is showing as having those votes? Or is it just that the vote count's display is incorrect, and Jobie will still be lynched?
I know that you believe that your randomly picked number has caused this - and if so, then we've got all the information that we're going to get on it. But the fact remains that we do not know exactly what is going to happen once we run someone up to lynch range.
What we have determined, through observation, is that a vote on Jobie will cause the displayed votes on imab to go up. What we are not sure about is what will happen at the lynch. If we get a majority of players voting for Jobie, will imab be lynched because he is showing as having those votes? Or is it just that the vote count's display is incorrect, and Jobie will still be lynched?
I know that you believe that your randomly picked number has caused this - and if so, then we've got all the information that we're going to get on it. But the fact remains that we do not know exactly what is going to happen once we run someone up to lynch range.
this is true, but id rather roll the dice that the votal is what matters than just ignore it.
Damn, messed it up a second time lol. Just got out of my physics midterm so quickly updating vote before math. Still just waiting on Taredas to reply. I assure everyone that the evidence will most likely have him lynched today.
Damn, messed it up a second time lol. Just got out of my physics midterm so quickly updating vote before math. Still just waiting on Taredas to reply. I assure everyone that the evidence will most likely have him lynched today.
Vote: TappingStones.
@Ghosting-I have astrange feeling about the voting system. Especially considering you (and i) think Tom is scum, and Tom changed the numbers. Dont you think this will be a mondscrew? Im pretty sure I will grt lynched if enough people vote for me. Id rather we test this another way.
I don't feel many responded to my questions in my last giant quote wall. Probably because I spoilered it. If you could take time to check it for questions related to you, it would be much appreciated. Also @Bur : you still didn't answer what you were looking for from me? Are you satisfied or not?
There's not a single truthful statement in post 493. However I noticed D_V's avatar has changed. It could be that D_V has an "angel" aspect and a "devil" aspect.
That's some wild speculation. And while I'm not sold on D_V's attack on you, I do want you to specifically address one part of it:
accidentally quoted hans instead of tapping in my last post, sorry. doing it from my phone and i just woke up so formatting got screwy
@imab what tipped the scales for you for into thinking no lynch/governer is a good plan. im still on the fence
Usually I have some good scumreads by now. All of my scumreads have evaporated and I'm feeling lost. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a question or two. Otherwise I might have to resort to some generic catchall questions I've kept around that I hate having to use.
There is an apparent inconsistency here, where you were down on D_V before this post (206), and seemed to be chasing him in posts afterwards, but here said that your scumreads had evaporated. Why? Did D_V do things around this time that made your opinion of him waffle?
hey D_V, is your content entirely under your control?
Perhaps, if one has to follow certain rules and chooses to follow those rules are they choosing their own destiny or is it picked for them?
Why would I have a good scumread on someone if the reason why they're "weird posting" is because they have some sort of posting restriction? D_V's claims of waffling are complete garbage since I FoS'd three people. He's operating under the assumption that I mention all my scumreads in every post and also that I have 20 votes to cast every time I vote. That's just not how this game works.
Like I said D_V's post 493 is complete drek. Just re-read the game and you'll see it. D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game. It's not wild speculation. It's an observation of a player's behavior and possible motivation.
@Ghosting-I have astrange feeling about the voting system. Especially considering you (and i) think Tom is scum, and Tom changed the numbers. Dont you think this will be a mondscrew? Im pretty sure I will grt lynched if enough people vote for me. Id rather we test this another way.
Going to retract my vote for the time being only for this reason. I am still 100% confident that Tom is scum, and am hoping Taredas replies soon so I can supply the proof and we lynch our first scum of the day.
Keep in mind there is no doubt in my mind that Tom is scum, it simply comes down to whether or not I'll be able to provide the proof. I'm sure I'll be able to, just don't want to get modkilled over something that could be prevented by asking Tar first.
Keep in mind there is no doubt in my mind that Tom is scum, it simply comes down to whether or not I'll be able to provide the proof. I'm sure I'll be able to, just don't want to get modkilled over something that could be prevented by asking Tar first.
Oh, Im not doubting you. Tom is already confirmed "scum-aligned" based on behavior.
Why would I have a good scumread on someone if the reason why they're "weird posting" is because they have some sort of posting restriction? D_V's claims of waffling are complete garbage since I FoS'd three people. He's operating under the assumption that I mention all my scumreads in every post and also that I have 20 votes to cast every time I vote. That's just not how this game works.
Like I said D_V's post 493 is complete drek. Just re-read the game and you'll see it. D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game. It's not wild speculation. It's an observation of a player's behavior and possible motivation.
This is a blatant lie.
Also, to assume one could vote everyone they expect at once is silly. But, you have never built a case on anyone and permanently voted many people.
Once again.
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
@Rob: (First of all, if you want me to respond to something, you better phrase it like a question or I don't realise someone wants me to respond to it.)
My townread on Nacho has waned after that and has strengthened my want to see Nacho prove his ability. (I especially disliked his #309, which sounds to me as an attempt to avoid having to govern anyone.)
I can accept him not governing someone, but it's going to require quite a good reasoning and not just "there might be a Godfather in this game".
tl;dr I believe Nacho is town after I see him governing someone. If he doesn't and don't have a goddamn convincing reason, he can just burn.
@Nacho: You've been awfully quiet about this plan that we run someone up today and then have you govern them (besides your #309). What are your current thoughts about the plan?
@Hunt: I was looking for if you are scum or not. I think I have figured a scum tell of yours.
@People wanting to lynch Tom (sans TS): I don't think I've seen a proper case on Tom. I'd like to see someone doing it and not just say "Tom is being scummy".
Private Mod Note
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Rob: (First of all, if you want me to respond to something, you better phrase it like a question or I don't realise someone wants me to respond to it.)
My townread on Nacho has waned after that and has strengthened my want to see Nacho prove his ability. (I especially disliked his #309, which sounds to me as an attempt to avoid having to govern anyone.)
I can accept him not governing someone, but it's going to require quite a good reasoning and not just "there might be a Godfather in this game".
tl;dr I believe Nacho is town after I see him governing someone. If he doesn't and don't have a goddamn convincing reason, he can just burn.
@Nacho: You've been awfully quiet about this plan that we run someone up today and then have you govern them (besides your #309). What are your current thoughts about the plan?
@Hunt: I was looking for if you are scum or not. I think I have figured a scum tell of yours.
@People wanting to lynch Tom (sans TS): I don't think I've seen a proper case on Tom. I'd like to see someone doing it and not just say "Tom is being scummy".
@Bur-Would you be willing to present your TS list?
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
I've said it many times, I'll say it again though for the deaf. I see no reason currently, why it would. For one to attack someone and say ask them if they are even reading this game and then to ask that question quite silly indeed. You sir are a not a very good trickster or a liar, since you seem to think things happening in this game are not.
Furthermore Taredas is in this game,
Waiting to see if Darth Melvin happens to get replaced. Otherwise the vote should have said leukovirus to equate to Taredas.
Furthermore it is very possible Rod Serling is in this game as an NPC.
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
If you think it's a scumtell (and I agree with you on that part), then why didn't you vote me for voting Taredas?
I missed it.
Unvote: Jobie
Vote: Prophylaxis
Jobie has a conceivable reason for his action with his vote on an NPC. Why did you vote Taredas? Also do you have links to the previous MindScrew Mafia games?
However since both NPC's and Taredas/Azrael are in this game in some fashion, voting for them is actually game relevant. Thus negating the "tell".
Hey guys. I'm putting D_V on ignore because there's nothing productive going on here. So if wonder why I'm no longer responding to D_V that's gonna be why.
However since both NPC's and Taredas/Azrael are in this game in some fashion, voting for them is actually game relevant. Thus negating the "tell".
Hey guys. I'm putting D_V on ignore because there's nothing productive going on here. So if wonder why I'm no longer responding to D_V that's gonna be why.
@TS: It took me a while to realise that "TS list" didn't mean "TappingStones list"...
Here we go, straight from my gut without rereading anything:
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur -
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@TS: It took me a while to realise that "TS list" didn't mean "TappingStones list"...
Here we go, straight from my gut without rereading anything:
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur -
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
Hey people. All Bur did was copy the player list in the OP and make up a bunch of stuff. You can tell because player #5 isn't on the list.
@TS: It took me a while to realise that "TS list" didn't mean "TappingStones list"...
Here we go, straight from my gut without rereading anything:
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur -
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
Hey people. All Bur did was copy the player list in the OP and make up a bunch of stuff. You can tell because player #5 isn't on the list.
What's wrong with copying the player list?
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@TS: It took me a while to realise that "TS list" didn't mean "TappingStones list"...
Here we go, straight from my gut without rereading anything:
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur -
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
Hey people. All Bur did was copy the player list in the OP and make up a bunch of stuff. You can tell because player #5 isn't on the list.
What's wrong with copying the player list?
Nothing technically. But it's a "pointless busywork" reads list. You included every player to make it seem like you had opinions but some of those opinions are unsupported. It's like you were looking for a way to justify null reads. Some examples...
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
Why is anaklusmos null but G.J. is a lean scum? They both have minimalist content.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
People have commented on DoTArchon and the things he's done this game. This suggests that not only are you not particularly interested in what Dot says, but that you're not particularly invested in what people have to say about Dot as well.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
Why are you suggesting that Ghosting is buddying T.S. but I am not? Why are you suggesting you should pay attention to him next when you have so many nulls some of them also being scumread or townread by other players?
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
"As of late" suggests you don't even know what has taken place beyond the last two pages. Reinforced by you accusing ghosting of buddying T.S. but not me.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
You need to pay closer attention? When's that gonna take place? My guess is probably never since you're looking into ghosting for no particular reason.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
No actual reason for why T.S. is "null to Lean Town". It's just thrown out there.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
More than a few people have pointed out that Tom's points range from mediocre to bad and even Tom has said his pressure on Tapping wasn't great.
I'd love to find a way to pressure Azrael into being helplful but it seems like there's not much I can do there.
unvote: Azrael
Vote: Bur
I also could do for Nachomamma but that wagon is just not taking off.
#1 Well excuse me for answering to TS about my T/S list.
#2 I don't recall much Anak has done in this game. Instead, I do remember what GJ has done in this game and I don't like it. For example, he mentioned that he has scum reads on me, Necarg and Ghosting and then proceeds to do nothing about them. Nothing. Not voting, not asking questions. Plain nothing. (And this is not how I expect town!GJ to act.)
#3 DoTA is a non-entity to me in this game. I admit it might be partially since I've had my focus elsewhere, but still.
#4 The thing I most strongly remember about Ghostling is that he's buddying up to TS really hard. In your case, I remember more strongly other things. I want to read Ghostling properly in order to figure him out, since he has an okay amount of posts.
#5 I do know what's been happening in this game beyond last two pages. What I referred to by my "As of late" is the the things you've said lately. (Also, I'm really amused by your attempt to use language tells on me.)
#6 I'll pay more attention to him after I'm done with Ghostling.
#7 He's having a slapfight with Tom. This seems like quite usual thing from TS, but the way he's being stubborn about it makes me slightly townread him.
#8 Why should I base my read on Tom what others have said about him?
#9 Why do you want to lynch our untested governor?
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@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Just because I am not running the show doesn't mean I am not playing the game. I simply don't have a lead I want to pursue right now. My slight intrigue is why IMAB thinks everything DV said is a lie, but I am assuming there will be an explanation soon, or at least a vote and case against DV.
Do you mind repeating the questions? The pace of the game has been rather fast, and it would mean a lot to me
Who's your top scum read?
What made you think of the theory that Tar kills of people randomly if it looks like there won't be a wagon going on?
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
#1 Well excuse me for answering to TS about my T/S list.
#2 I don't recall much Anak has done in this game. Instead, I do remember what GJ has done in this game and I don't like it. For example, he mentioned that he has scum reads on me, Necarg and Ghosting and then proceeds to do nothing about them. Nothing. Not voting, not asking questions. Plain nothing. (And this is not how I expect town!GJ to act.)
#3 DoTA is a non-entity to me in this game. I admit it might be partially since I've had my focus elsewhere, but still.
#4 The thing I most strongly remember about Ghostling is that he's buddying up to TS really hard. In your case, I remember more strongly other things. I want to read Ghostling properly in order to figure him out, since he has an okay amount of posts.
#5 I do know what's been happening in this game beyond last two pages. What I referred to by my "As of late" is the the things you've said lately. (Also, I'm really amused by your attempt to use language tells on me.)
#6 I'll pay more attention to him after I'm done with Ghostling.
#7 He's having a slapfight with Tom. This seems like quite usual thing from TS, but the way he's being stubborn about it makes me slightly townread him.
#8 Why should I base my read on Tom what others have said about him?
#9 Why do you want to lynch our untested governor?
1. Except your list looks artificial.
2. There's more than a few people have have done nothing. Why is G.J. special?
3. Yes, that doesn't change the fact that even if DOTA had done very little, other people have also commented on what DOTA has done. You're not just unfocused on DOTA, you're unfocused on discussions about DOTA as well.
4. I find it hard to believe you remember Ghostling "buddying" to T.S. when my interactions with T.S. have been more numerous and bolder.
5. Yes, the things I've said lately, but have ignored things I've said not lately. Which reinforces what I said before that your reads are just surface level and fake.
6. While I hate this answer it's logical.
7. What about the way he's going about it? Don't be shy now...
8. Well, tom himself has admitted that his push isn't great so there is that...
9. Because I base my reads off behavior and not role.
this is true, but id rather roll the dice that the votal is what matters than just ignore it.
I think that we should keep it in mind, but in the absence of further information, I might make my decision on which way to go based on the players involved. For example, if Ghosting's push on you succeeds, and we try to lynch you today, then I'd rather vote Hawk (raising your votecount) than vote you (raising Tapping's votecount), as the fail case is better. Hawk is my current strongest scum lead, and while I'm not sold on either you or Tapping as scum behaviourally, I'm pretty certain that you aren't co-scum.
I don't feel many responded to my questions in my last giant quote wall. Probably because I spoilered it. If you could take time to check it for questions related to you, it would be much appreciated.
That would be 317? Yeah, spoilering it also makes it harder to tell what you are saying versus quotes.
Looks like you had specific questions for imabusinessman, tomsloger, TappingStones, Necarg, 7hawk77, Ghosting, Bur, hansanator, and, assuming the request for a Venn diagram was serious, Jobie. Off to post 317, guys.
There is an apparent inconsistency here, where you were down on D_V before this post (206), and seemed to be chasing him in posts afterwards, but here said that your scumreads had evaporated. Why? Did D_V do things around this time that made your opinion of him waffle?
Why would I have a good scumread on someone if the reason why they're "weird posting" is because they have some sort of posting restriction? D_V's claims of waffling are complete garbage since I FoS'd three people. He's operating under the assumption that I mention all my scumreads in every post and also that I have 20 votes to cast every time I vote. That's just not how this game works.
It's still an inconsistency. You didn't say "most of my scumreads have dried up." You said "all" - which would include D_V. I'd like to find out what about D_V's posting made you suspicious of him, to what levels, at what times.
Like I said D_V's post 493 is complete drek. Just re-read the game and you'll see it. D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game. It's not wild speculation. It's an observation of a player's behavior and possible motivation.
Like I said D_V's post 493 is complete drek. Just re-read the game and you'll see it. D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game. It's not wild speculation. It's an observation of a player's behavior and possible motivation.
This is a blatant lie.
<snip>
In the interest of getting our facts right... you did switch avatars at some point since the start of this game day, correct, D_V? I'm pretty sure I recall it being different at the beginning. Was it just the once, or have you switched more than once?
#2 There's difference between not doing anything by inactivity and not doing anything but still making fluff posts. (And GJ is one of the players in this game I have lots of experience with.)
#3 Must've been quite boring discussion since I don't remember anything about him.
#4 Like I said, there are things I remember you better off than that.
#5 Your prior points are either idiotic or meaningless.
#6 Nothing to comment.
#7 What do you mean by that?
#8 And that makes him scum?
#9 Remind me to push your lynch next time you get mod-confirmed, since your should lynched for this reason ALWAYS.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
In the interest of getting our facts right... you did switch avatars at some point since the start of this game day, correct, D_V? I'm pretty sure I recall it being different at the beginning. Was it just the once, or have you switched more than once?
Yes, but only this once.
I haven't done it multiple times through out the day.
my gut here says those are scummy posts from ghosting.
i am unconvinced either way about nacho, though ive got a solid inkling imab is scumreading him in earnest. maybe theyre buddies, but probably not.
i dont think i reregistered a vote after reset, so vote: ghosting
FoS: tapping
prod request: necarg, melvin
if none of those 4 people is scum, i will eat yogurt (i hate yogurt)
If the only person on that list that is actually scum is melvin, you're kind of cheating.
I have bee reading Imab's posts as his townie bravado he starts to exude once he gets rolling in a game. See Animal and the way he treated me once he replaced in. It could be fake-able given enough practice at it, but I feel like it would lose momentum, and I actually feel likes he's gained as the day has rolled on.
This is pretty much my thoughts on IMAB completely.
One of the Tar Roles was a Chairman Mao role, which had the potential to mess up votecounts and vote threshholds, was behind rules infractions, was generally overall anti-town. Lynching Tar in that game prevented all of those bad effects. I'm trying to figure out whether to expect something different from the Tar role (aka maybe something Town-Beneficial since Azrael the very probable neutral seems to be trying to get us to lynch Tar, maybe not). In Mind Screw games, there are always clues. Misdirections and red herrings everywhere, yeah, but there are still clues. I don't think my observations about this part of the game are harmful to it as long as I keep being a contributor on the scumhunting front, and I have been.
But did lynching him that game advance the town wincon? No. Town could win without doing that.
The important questions is how could Town figure that out? Was there a way for Town to get the info that Tar was doing bad things to the town? You say there were clues... what were those clues? I'm guessing they weren't easy to find, right?
I do believe this is harmful because there are more productive things we can be trying to figure out... like who the actual scum are. I don't think figuring out Tar's role>finding scum, especially this early in the game.
Except... I have been scum hunting. This could be a valid argument to make if anything I was doing was detracting from scum hunting instead of adding to it, but that's not the case at all.
As for hints, most of the hints came through roles that other players had. And yes, I do think it's important to figure out what roles the moderator nd reviewer has this game, especially as Azrael is trying to influence the game and convince players to give him souls as we speak.
Lynching the moderator in that game was a net gain for town, which is why I brought it up. I don't think it's a worthy avenue quite yet but it's something to point out for people completely unfamiliar with the format. The reason I've talked about it a little bit more than I would normally is because a lot of people are unfamiliar with this game style (and Mind Screw is a game style): spending two or three posts talking about the setup is beneficial when 90% of the town has no idea what the hell is going on, same as it would be to talk about roles in early game if you had a bunch of first-time players playing.
Why do you think that being helpful is scummy? The only explanation I can think of is that you think that I'm overdoing it to the point of being fake, which is something I'd argue pretty strongly against: the only part where the "overly helpful" tag could even come close to applying to me is in my rules speculation, which seemed like a pretty decent route to follow considering the whole no rules thing.
I didn't say being helpful is scummy. I said being overly helpful is scummy. And yes I was referring to the rules thing. But it's a minor point given that you haven't done it to a great extent.
In my experience, Town doesn't really think to do stuff like that. For some reason, they just don't. IDK why not.
Maybe I'm overvaluing this as a scumtell because I once caught someone in their first post using it in a game I was reading. (forget which one though, sadly. It was an old one though.) The user atlseal was putting full votecounts at the bottom of all his posts, starting with his first one and I immediately thought he was scum for it. He was. I value it a little high because it's not a well-known tell. It's not "Buddying with strong Town players" or "Not interacting with your buddies", which people know of and consciously avoid. It's just something that people think looks townie, and if you don't know to look for it you might not notice it.
IIRC in How to Train Your Dragon I got caught doing it as scum as well.
You say I'm being overly helpful, except I haven't been overly helpful that much and being helpful isn't scummy.
I'm confused.
I forgot to include a final part to the first section there: It's harmful becuase it's not just speculation... you're calling others to discuss it too. It's not just "Here's my theory" it's "We need to discuss this before we move on" which is the harmful thing.
I pointed out that it was something that should be discussed; I didn't derail scum hunting to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics and I didn't push anyone specifically to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics. Those are the differences I'm emphasizing: you're claiming that I've talked about Tar and Az to the point of it being harmful, but I really don't think that's the case.
DoT: My govern reveals alignment, not role. Azrael is a neutral.
How did you learn that?
He's a reviewer of the game. He's not going to be aligned with town, he's not going to be aligned with scum. He will have a wincon completely unrelated to "kill town" or "kill scum".
@KJ, Bur: Before the vote count weirdness, I was worried about scum having an ability to mess with my power. Am less worried about that now, will be pardoning and revealing alignment today because it's the best move to make. Would prefer not running up a strong scumread or strong townread, but that's just me.
In the interest of getting our facts right... you did switch avatars at some point since the start of this game day, correct, D_V? I'm pretty sure I recall it being different at the beginning. Was it just the once, or have you switched more than once?
Yes, but only this once.
I haven't done it multiple times through out the day.
@RobRoy: To me, this Az/DV farce feels like a theatrical act than an attempt to play a game. I haven't been paying much attention to either of them and probably won't until later days. The only thing is that I doubt that Az is flatout lying about his ability. He might be leaving something out, but I don't think he's flatout lying.
@Hunt (regarding #317): I'm not going to tell you what is that tell that I'm looking for, since it'd defeat the purpose. There are few things that are piquing my interest, but nothing concrete yet. I don't remember, but I'd guess that my read on Ghost at that time was based on my gut.
(Did I forget something? If not, I'm eagerly looking towards that big post of yours you promised.)
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
#2 There's difference between not doing anything by inactivity and not doing anything but still making fluff posts. (And GJ is one of the players in this game I have lots of experience with.)
#3 Must've been quite boring discussion since I don't remember anything about him.
#4 Like I said, there are things I remember you better off than that.
#5 Your prior points are either idiotic or meaningless.
#6 Nothing to comment.
#7 What do you mean by that?
#8 And that makes him scum?
#9 Remind me to push your lynch next time you get mod-confirmed, since your should lynched for this reason ALWAYS.
Ok. I'm not going to respond to all of this. Just certain parts...
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
If you think it's a scumtell (and I agree with you on that part)...
Even if you think my prior ppoints are idiotic or meaningless what do you think about Prophylaxis who is confirmed town and agree with me? Are his points idiotic and meaningless are are you going to hardcore try and discredit him too without arguing the point? You know who tries to discredit points without actually arguing them? Scum.
8. When did I argue Tom is scum? I FoS'd him which is hardly the same thing and I certainly haven't presented an argument about him being scum. That FoS strictly had to do with me not liking the T.S. wagon at all. The point is, you're claiming Tom is making good points is contradictory in part to what TOMSLOGER has directly stated. Even if you ignore completely what other people are saying about tom, you're ignoring Tom.
You 9 doesn't even make sense.
@TappingStones
@Gentleman Johnny
Would you be willing to lynch Bur?
@Nachomamma8
would you be willing to governor Bur to discern her alignment?
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One could try to lynch me today, but they would find trying to lynch a smile quite hard I would assume.
Tomorrow, who knows!
One would hope.
I will sell you my soul, my heart, and my mind for a daykill or any kill ability.
The whole thing started before post 100 and is the majority of the thread.
I don't think they're on the same team. Normally a town v town argument is quite heated and lasts a long while. Yet, with this game, the fight has generally died down and it hasn't been as heated as I've seen these fights. I've seen fights infinitely more heated and last much longer than 10 pages. This isn't of that same caliber. I would say that it might just be calmer people, but even that doesn't make sense as TS's fights, even with Tom before, have been much more extensive and exhaustive. This isn't. It's a bit late, and I need to go to bed, but I think that we should look at Tom and TS's content apart from their scuffles first.
Also, did I mention that I have debate like every weekend? Because I do and that eats actually all of my time.
Yesterday, you'd forgiven me
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@Rob & GJ: I don't think you answered my Governor question. How often have you seen a governor in a game that you recall?
No, 452.
And as far as Necarg goes, his only real content post is 155. Having Nacho use his ability on him would be a waste, as Nec is basically a lurker.
I've got Anak leaning (He's made a few posts I've liked) , Tom is almost certainly (Reason already given), I've liked GJ's approach to the game thus far(His thought process has echoed my own on a few occasions). And as I write this, Rob makes some good posts.
Ok. Fair enough.
Interesting.
Still want you to look at Nacho. Sad no one else is taking you up on this.
If we could reliably coordinate, I would rather use Kingmaker on a major Townread but that's asking a lot of people. It's much more reliable and less risky to attempt a lynch on a scumread and have Nacho pardon it to reveal alignment.
Here's my thought process here: Running up a likely Town to King is risky if !scumNacho, or otherwise if the scum have anything to mess with !townNacho's pardon. We don't know what the scum have, and running up Town based on just Nacho's word that he's trustworthy is a bad idea. If we run up a scumread instead, then even if !scumNacho (or the scum in the case of a !townNacho) messes with it, we're still lynching a scum.
Bur is potentially a good target, IMAB is another, especially after 482.
Actually... Nacho: ...can you pardon yourself? Having a public read on you would make me feel a whole lot better.
lol
I bet you would.
Hard to say in a game such as this.
One would assume though that these chains that hold me will not be broken.
I'll vote for ponies for all.
@Necarg Interesting that you say that town arguments get heated and last a while, to me the Tom vs. TS debate has been the longest lasting and most heated portion of this day so far. Maybe the number of posts isn't as high as you usually see, but remember we are one week into the game, there has only been so much time to argue.
IMAB's response to DV is a very handwave-y dismissal of everything that DV posted about him, instead of actually responding to the case that he put together. Not inspiring confidence there.
im starting to see why my fake confidence made some people scumread me.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
the only person to ask tare a question since his last round of answering was me and i asked about darth melvin.
or did you ask privately when we have the ability to ask in thread?
It was private and needed to be (which will make sense when/if I can explain).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Vote: tomsloger.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
My point is that the fight has already practically ended. There's not much action left. These fights (at least the ones I've seen in the past) don't end easily or quickly when they're Town v Town, so I don't think both are town.
But it'll still be two days 'til I say I'm sorry.
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but i assure you that i am town, so whatever you think you have is either incorrect or a lie. or youre being mindscrewed somehow.
and again, votes on me go to hawk.
@necarg well i never get heated. annoyed, sure. but never angry. remember that i know its just a game.
but i do agree that TS went through his planned reactions a little faster than he would have if they were natural. pulled the trigger on being totally done with me a little too soon imo.
Gut reaction without rereading TS and Tom yet, which one do you peg as scum?
Outdated Mafia Stats
I am fairly confident that you are scum, just waiting on Taredas' reply. But thank you for letting me know who to vote, forgot about the weird voting scheme again.
Vote: 7hawk77.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
to get to me you have to vote tapping.
or, you know, im wrong about this. still a possibility.
I made a point about you in 476 that you didn't respond to - but I hadn't phrased it in the form of a question, so here goes.
In your post 47, you said that Nacho was "probably town (and not due to role reasons)." When imabusinessman questioned you on this, you responded in your post 365, saying that you thought he was townie because of his claimed role, and the way in which he claimed it.
There has been a lot of game since then. Has your opinion of Nacho changed since then? How do you feel about his posting? Are you still willing to believe that Nacho is townie if (as he has alluded to) he is not necessarily using his ability today?
That's some wild speculation. And while I'm not sold on D_V's attack on you, I do want you to specifically address one part of it:
There is an apparent inconsistency here, where you were down on D_V before this post (206), and seemed to be chasing him in posts afterwards, but here said that your scumreads had evaporated. Why? Did D_V do things around this time that made your opinion of him waffle?
He's honestly not being that obscure. His verbiage is a touch obtuse, but I think anything non-self-referential he has posted has made his opinions known.
I dislike this mindset, at least partly because if everyone employs it, the game stagnates.
*sigh*
@imabusinessman:
Not a good plan.
Are you asking us to revisit this, or are you planning to? I understand other commitments, and there is a lot of Tom vs Tapping - I'm just asking you to set our expectations correctly. Are you going to be re-reading the Tom/TS slapfights, or are you asking others to?
Apologies, I don't recall seeing this question. Not terribly often - I think they have come up as an ability in a Xyre or something, but can't recall a specific instance off the top of my head.
Whoa! We are not sure about this yet.
What we have determined, through observation, is that a vote on Jobie will cause the displayed votes on imab to go up. What we are not sure about is what will happen at the lynch. If we get a majority of players voting for Jobie, will imab be lynched because he is showing as having those votes? Or is it just that the vote count's display is incorrect, and Jobie will still be lynched?
I know that you believe that your randomly picked number has caused this - and if so, then we've got all the information that we're going to get on it. But the fact remains that we do not know exactly what is going to happen once we run someone up to lynch range.
Hmm. Does anyone know where the old :popcorn: smiley went?
and is "munch" inside the colons
Vote: TappingStones.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@Ghosting-I have astrange feeling about the voting system. Especially considering you (and i) think Tom is scum, and Tom changed the numbers. Dont you think this will be a mondscrew? Im pretty sure I will grt lynched if enough people vote for me. Id rather we test this another way.
Bigger post tonight. Really just a PTAP
I don't feel many responded to my questions in my last giant quote wall. Probably because I spoilered it. If you could take time to check it for questions related to you, it would be much appreciated. Also @Bur : you still didn't answer what you were looking for from me? Are you satisfied or not?
Why would I have a good scumread on someone if the reason why they're "weird posting" is because they have some sort of posting restriction? D_V's claims of waffling are complete garbage since I FoS'd three people. He's operating under the assumption that I mention all my scumreads in every post and also that I have 20 votes to cast every time I vote. That's just not how this game works.
Like I said D_V's post 493 is complete drek. Just re-read the game and you'll see it. D_V's suspicious posts come every time he changes his avatar from a stick figure on a white background to a that shadowy chesire cat. He's changed his avatar several times this game. It's not wild speculation. It's an observation of a player's behavior and possible motivation.
Going to retract my vote for the time being only for this reason. I am still 100% confident that Tom is scum, and am hoping Taredas replies soon so I can supply the proof and we lynch our first scum of the day.
Unvote.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Oh, Im not doubting you. Tom is already confirmed "scum-aligned" based on behavior.
Yeah that's why my discovery made me even happier, glad to know my reads aren't horrible, lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
This is a blatant lie.
Also, to assume one could vote everyone they expect at once is silly. But, you have never built a case on anyone and permanently voted many people.
Once again.
How is voting someone outside of the game a scum tell, when they have not received their role pm yet?
My townread on Nacho has waned after that and has strengthened my want to see Nacho prove his ability. (I especially disliked his #309, which sounds to me as an attempt to avoid having to govern anyone.)
I can accept him not governing someone, but it's going to require quite a good reasoning and not just "there might be a Godfather in this game".
tl;dr I believe Nacho is town after I see him governing someone. If he doesn't and don't have a goddamn convincing reason, he can just burn.
@Nacho: You've been awfully quiet about this plan that we run someone up today and then have you govern them (besides your #309). What are your current thoughts about the plan?
@Hunt: I was looking for if you are scum or not. I think I have figured a scum tell of yours.
@People wanting to lynch Tom (sans TS): I don't think I've seen a proper case on Tom. I'd like to see someone doing it and not just say "Tom is being scummy".
@Bur-Would you be willing to present your TS list?
The game started as of post 21.
Proph voted someone "outside of the game" in post 27 and jobie voted someone "outside of the game" in post 31. It's like you're on another planet. Are you even reading this game? I look forward to your posting restriction coming to an end because this is nonsense.
I've said it many times, I'll say it again though for the deaf. I see no reason currently, why it would. For one to attack someone and say ask them if they are even reading this game and then to ask that question quite silly indeed. You sir are a not a very good trickster or a liar, since you seem to think things happening in this game are not.
Furthermore Taredas is in this game,
Waiting to see if Darth Melvin happens to get replaced. Otherwise the vote should have said leukovirus to equate to Taredas.
Furthermore it is very possible Rod Serling is in this game as an NPC.
You even denoted it here.
Forgetting ones own words.
Tsk tsk.
Try again sir.
Who has voted a player outside of this game?
Hey guys. I'm putting D_V on ignore because there's nothing productive going on here. So if wonder why I'm no longer responding to D_V that's gonna be why.
Truly did not mean to offend.
Here we go, straight from my gut without rereading anything:
1) 7hawk77 - I recall that he had posts that felt natural, but I don't remember anything about the content. Null.
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
3) Bur -
4) Darth Melvin - was this guy in this game? Null.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean Scum.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
9) hansanator - For early game reasons (and being silly as always), Null to Lean Town.
10) Huntzilla - Slight Lean Town for feeling natural and not fulfilling the criteria of my possible scumtell for him.
11) Jobie - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
13) Killjoy - For being sensible and having his mind on the right place. Town.
14) leukovirus - Not strongly impressed by her/him. Null.
15) Nachomamma8 - Special case. Could go either way, depending on whether he's honest about his role or not.
16) Necarg - Haven't been impressed by the few posts by him that actually have something in them. Lean scum.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
Hey people. All Bur did was copy the player list in the OP and make up a bunch of stuff. You can tell because player #5 isn't on the list.
What's wrong with copying the player list?
Nothing technically. But it's a "pointless busywork" reads list. You included every player to make it seem like you had opinions but some of those opinions are unsupported. It's like you were looking for a way to justify null reads. Some examples...
7) Gentleman Johnny - not impressed by his lack of active participation. He just seems to be sitting here and is content doing nothing. Lean
2) Anaklusmos - No idea what he's done in this game. Null.
Why is anaklusmos null but G.J. is a lean scum? They both have minimalist content.
6) DoTArchon - no idea if he's done anything in this game. Null.
People have commented on DoTArchon and the things he's done this game. This suggests that not only are you not particularly interested in what Dot says, but that you're not particularly invested in what people have to say about Dot as well.
8) Ghosting - Probably the player I should pay more attention next. I recall he's been buddying with TS, but not much else. Null.
Why are you suggesting that Ghosting is buddying T.S. but I am not? Why are you suggesting you should pay attention to him next when you have so many nulls some of them also being scumread or townread by other players?
12) iamabusinessman - not liking his play as of late, but this is IMAB we are talking about... Null to Lean Scum.
"As of late" suggests you don't even know what has taken place beyond the last two pages. Reinforced by you accusing ghosting of buddying T.S. but not me.
18) RobRoy - My gut says he's town, but haven't paid any closer attention to him yet. Lean Town.
You need to pay closer attention? When's that gonna take place? My guess is probably never since you're looking into ghosting for no particular reason.
19) TappingStones - It'd be great if he interacted with others than Tom. Null to Lean Town.
No actual reason for why T.S. is "null to Lean Town". It's just thrown out there.
20) tomsloger - Tom makes sense (and good points at times). Town. (I like him more between Tom and TS.)
More than a few people have pointed out that Tom's points range from mediocre to bad and even Tom has said his pressure on Tapping wasn't great.
I'd love to find a way to pressure Azrael into being helplful but it seems like there's not much I can do there.
unvote: Azrael
Vote: Bur
I also could do for Nachomamma but that wagon is just not taking off.
#1 Well excuse me for answering to TS about my T/S list.
#2 I don't recall much Anak has done in this game. Instead, I do remember what GJ has done in this game and I don't like it. For example, he mentioned that he has scum reads on me, Necarg and Ghosting and then proceeds to do nothing about them. Nothing. Not voting, not asking questions. Plain nothing. (And this is not how I expect town!GJ to act.)
#3 DoTA is a non-entity to me in this game. I admit it might be partially since I've had my focus elsewhere, but still.
#4 The thing I most strongly remember about Ghostling is that he's buddying up to TS really hard. In your case, I remember more strongly other things. I want to read Ghostling properly in order to figure him out, since he has an okay amount of posts.
#5 I do know what's been happening in this game beyond last two pages. What I referred to by my "As of late" is the the things you've said lately. (Also, I'm really amused by your attempt to use language tells on me.)
#6 I'll pay more attention to him after I'm done with Ghostling.
#7 He's having a slapfight with Tom. This seems like quite usual thing from TS, but the way he's being stubborn about it makes me slightly townread him.
#8 Why should I base my read on Tom what others have said about him?
#9 Why do you want to lynch our untested governor?
Who's your top scum read?
What made you think of the theory that Tar kills of people randomly if it looks like there won't be a wagon going on?
1. Except your list looks artificial.
2. There's more than a few people have have done nothing. Why is G.J. special?
3. Yes, that doesn't change the fact that even if DOTA had done very little, other people have also commented on what DOTA has done. You're not just unfocused on DOTA, you're unfocused on discussions about DOTA as well.
4. I find it hard to believe you remember Ghostling "buddying" to T.S. when my interactions with T.S. have been more numerous and bolder.
5. Yes, the things I've said lately, but have ignored things I've said not lately. Which reinforces what I said before that your reads are just surface level and fake.
6. While I hate this answer it's logical.
7. What about the way he's going about it? Don't be shy now...
8. Well, tom himself has admitted that his push isn't great so there is that...
9. Because I base my reads off behavior and not role.
I think that we should keep it in mind, but in the absence of further information, I might make my decision on which way to go based on the players involved. For example, if Ghosting's push on you succeeds, and we try to lynch you today, then I'd rather vote Hawk (raising your votecount) than vote you (raising Tapping's votecount), as the fail case is better. Hawk is my current strongest scum lead, and while I'm not sold on either you or Tapping as scum behaviourally, I'm pretty certain that you aren't co-scum.
That would be 317? Yeah, spoilering it also makes it harder to tell what you are saying versus quotes.
Looks like you had specific questions for imabusinessman, tomsloger, TappingStones, Necarg, 7hawk77, Ghosting, Bur, hansanator, and, assuming the request for a Venn diagram was serious, Jobie. Off to post 317, guys.
It's still an inconsistency. You didn't say "most of my scumreads have dried up." You said "all" - which would include D_V. I'd like to find out what about D_V's posting made you suspicious of him, to what levels, at what times.
Well, it's really both, but in this game...
In the interest of getting our facts right... you did switch avatars at some point since the start of this game day, correct, D_V? I'm pretty sure I recall it being different at the beginning. Was it just the once, or have you switched more than once?
imabusinessman's comments aside, you've missed a few posters by going by that list. For completeness' sake, can you also weigh in on Azrael and D_V?
#2 There's difference between not doing anything by inactivity and not doing anything but still making fluff posts. (And GJ is one of the players in this game I have lots of experience with.)
#3 Must've been quite boring discussion since I don't remember anything about him.
#4 Like I said, there are things I remember you better off than that.
#5 Your prior points are either idiotic or meaningless.
#6 Nothing to comment.
#7 What do you mean by that?
#8 And that makes him scum?
#9 Remind me to push your lynch next time you get mod-confirmed, since your should lynched for this reason ALWAYS.
Yes, but only this once.
I haven't done it multiple times through out the day.
No. I didn't find you scummy on an initial reread.
If the only person on that list that is actually scum is melvin, you're kind of cheating.
BoP is by far the most effective argument you can employ against experienced players. You're just doing it wrong, unfortunately.
I submit my PM during twilight, presumably after Tar goes "X has reached a majority of votes!".
Mod reveal of alignment happens in thread, correct.
This is a fine observation, Hans.
This is pretty much my thoughts on IMAB completely.
Except... I have been scum hunting. This could be a valid argument to make if anything I was doing was detracting from scum hunting instead of adding to it, but that's not the case at all.
As for hints, most of the hints came through roles that other players had. And yes, I do think it's important to figure out what roles the moderator nd reviewer has this game, especially as Azrael is trying to influence the game and convince players to give him souls as we speak.
Lynching the moderator in that game was a net gain for town, which is why I brought it up. I don't think it's a worthy avenue quite yet but it's something to point out for people completely unfamiliar with the format. The reason I've talked about it a little bit more than I would normally is because a lot of people are unfamiliar with this game style (and Mind Screw is a game style): spending two or three posts talking about the setup is beneficial when 90% of the town has no idea what the hell is going on, same as it would be to talk about roles in early game if you had a bunch of first-time players playing.
You say I'm being overly helpful, except I haven't been overly helpful that much and being helpful isn't scummy.
I'm confused.
I pointed out that it was something that should be discussed; I didn't derail scum hunting to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics and I didn't push anyone specifically to talk about the Tar/Az mechanics. Those are the differences I'm emphasizing: you're claiming that I've talked about Tar and Az to the point of it being harmful, but I really don't think that's the case.
He's a reviewer of the game. He's not going to be aligned with town, he's not going to be aligned with scum. He will have a wincon completely unrelated to "kill town" or "kill scum".
@KJ, Bur: Before the vote count weirdness, I was worried about scum having an ability to mess with my power. Am less worried about that now, will be pardoning and revealing alignment today because it's the best move to make. Would prefer not running up a strong scumread or strong townread, but that's just me.
one time* not once.
@Hunt (regarding #317): I'm not going to tell you what is that tell that I'm looking for, since it'd defeat the purpose. There are few things that are piquing my interest, but nothing concrete yet. I don't remember, but I'd guess that my read on Ghost at that time was based on my gut.
(Did I forget something? If not, I'm eagerly looking towards that big post of yours you promised.)
Ok. I'm not going to respond to all of this. Just certain parts...
Even if you think my prior ppoints are idiotic or meaningless what do you think about Prophylaxis who is confirmed town and agree with me? Are his points idiotic and meaningless are are you going to hardcore try and discredit him too without arguing the point? You know who tries to discredit points without actually arguing them? Scum.
8. When did I argue Tom is scum? I FoS'd him which is hardly the same thing and I certainly haven't presented an argument about him being scum. That FoS strictly had to do with me not liking the T.S. wagon at all. The point is, you're claiming Tom is making good points is contradictory in part to what TOMSLOGER has directly stated. Even if you ignore completely what other people are saying about tom, you're ignoring Tom.
You 9 doesn't even make sense.
@TappingStones
@Gentleman Johnny
Would you be willing to lynch Bur?
@Nachomamma8
would you be willing to governor Bur to discern her alignment?