I reread mot of 2 Ghosting old games. I'm reading him null to lean town.
There was a scum read I thought I might find based on what I saw as some careful postings this game, and use of emoticons but both of those things read consistent in his previous town and scum games.
I am a Governor again, planning on playing it the same way I did in Classic. This is a game of a different nature so I am not confirmed town by ability, however, when j decide to halt a lynch, I can either make the lynched player king for the day (meaning they alone choose the lynch) or publicly reveal their alignment to everyone.
First post this game, claims Governor. At first, I didn't look at this twice. Partially because of the openness of the claim, partially because apperently he was a governor recently in a different game and I guess approached his claim in much the same way. But the more I think about it... the more wary I become of this claim. I know this is technically Gambler's Fallacy, but being Governor in two games so close together seems unlikely. Governor is not a common role. I think in all my games, I have seen it once. It makes me paranoid that he's claiming it again so soon.
A possible point in his favor though is that if Governor has appeared in games I was not in, I likely didn't see it.
Question @ Rob & GJ: How many times have largeish games you've played in had a governor?
If Governor is as rare as I think it is, I feel it's unlikely that Nacho managed to get it twice so quickly.
Tar/Azrael most likely have lyncher/lynchee roles; want to do research into old Mind Screws to see if there's any merit to resolving that dichotomy now.
Taredas is the moderator, true - this does not mean Tar doesn't have a role in the game. In previous Mind Screws (five or so?), Tar has had a role in the game as moderator.
One of the Tar Roles was a Chairman Mao role, which had the potential to mess up votecounts and vote threshholds, was behind rules infractions, was generally overall anti-town. Lynching Tar in that game prevented all of those bad effects. I'm trying to figure out whether to expect something different from the Tar role (aka maybe something Town-Beneficial since Azrael the very probable neutral seems to be trying to get us to lynch Tar, maybe not). In Mind Screw games, there are always clues. Misdirections and red herrings everywhere, yeah, but there are still clues. I don't think my observations about this part of the game are harmful to it as long as I keep being a contributor on the scumhunting front, and I have been.
[
My problem here is that Nacho is calling others to discuss Tar/Az in leiu of other more important things. Yes, Tar had a role in previous games, but D1 with limited info we should obviously be hunting scum. Trying to figure out extensively what Tar/Az are up to isn't a good idea. Like, if he was trying to figure it out himself instead of asking us to discuss it with him I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it... but it just feels like he's trying to detract us with mechanics-talk.
Rules:
<0> The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
<-1> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<-1a> Refusal to accept the moderators decision once the moderator has made it clear that the decision is final will be punished by modkill (if applicable) and blacklisting.
<-1b> I may, at my discretion, opt to use a greater punishment than usual on one or more players, provided that there is a clear pattern of more than one player violating the same rule and that the player(s) to be punished more severely broke that rule more severely or frequently than other players.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<1b> If there is any question about whether something might break the rules, it's probably best if you don't do it or at least ask first.
<1c> Rule 1 is a catchall rule; it is intended to preemptively outlaw any action I consider clearly unacceptable that I have not explicitly outlawed elsewhere, or for assigning a lesser punishment when I feel that the usual punishment for a rule violation would be too harsh. I will do my best not to use the first aspect of this rule, but if I decide that something qualifies as a Rule 1 violation then it is a Rule 1 violation. (See also Rule 0.)
<1d> Faking a violation of a rule will be treated as equivalent to actually violating that rule.
<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill. I have zero tolerance for scumbuddy claims.
<4> Do not quote role PMs. Violation of this rule will result in modkill. Role PM quoting includes quoting links to QuickTopics in your role PM or by paraphrases that in my judgment could only come from an actual Tarhalindur PM.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have a vote count and a FoS count. Each player will begin with 1 vote (but see Rule 2).
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game. Theme games make no such guarantee.
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player or No Lynch has a majority of votes (or 50% of votes in the case of No Lynch), that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<9> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable.
<10> If no one has reached majority by deadline, one of the following three things will happen:
a) If a majority of voting players are voting for a player, that player will be lynched.
b) If more than half of voting players are voting for one of two players, each of those players will send me a haiku. Whichever one is more amusing will be spared the rope. (Example: If thirteen players are voting out of 21, and 4 of those are voting for Player A and 5 are voting for Player B, Player A and Player B will need to send me haikus.)
c) If neither a) nor b) are applicable, No Lynch will occur.
<11> You may vote to No Lynch any number of times during the game. When at least 50% of voting players are voting No Lynch, No Lynch will occur. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation. (This rule is an injoke and doesn't actually do anything.)
<13> This is an Open Night setup. As usual, lynching occurs during the day, actions are submitted at night and resolve at end of night (but see Rule 2). However, players are PERMITTED to talk in the thread during "night".
<13a> Nights will have a nonretractable deadline of 48 hours. Players are allowed to send in night choices early.
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> All players need to post at least once every 72 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you do not post for 72 hours, you will be prodded. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 72 hours or you will be replaced. You will receive an Official Warning the second time you fail to post for more than 72 hours. The third time you fail to post for 72 hours, you will be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, you need to post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<15b> If you post before I get around to handing out the prod, you avoid the prod.
<15c> Players who have a history of being lurkers may be Officially Warned for a first prod and replaced for a second.
<16> Players may only use one activeated ability per day (but see Rule 2).
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by the method specified in their role PM).
<18> Any player who is modkilled loses the game unless I specify otherwise. I will modkill in either the fashion that I deem least damaging to the game state or the fashion that I deem most damaging to the modkilled player's faction, at my discretion.
<19> I reserve the right to add rules if necessary (or if I really, really want to).
<20> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
Game-Specific Rules:
<21> Whenever a player breaks a rule other than those explicitly punishable by modkill or other punishment defined in the rule, that player will receive a Rules Infraction. A player with five Rules Infractions will receive an Official Warning. A player with two Official Warnings will be forcibly replaced.
<22> A player who is revived by a temporal paradox will be removed from the game at the end of the game cycle after the one in which they were revived. (For example, if a player was revived by a temporal paradox during Day 2, he will die at the end of Night 3.)
<23> Abilities resolve in the following order: Global Manipulations, Manipulations, Protections, Kills, Investigations, Special Actions. Manipulations resolve in dependency order (i.e, if Player 1 blocks Player 2 who blocks Player 3, Player 1's ability resolves first blocking Player 2 and Player 2's block fails to resolve).
<42> Players are required to have a towel at all times. They don't have to have it on them, they just have to have them. (This is a joke rule and doesn't actually do anything.)
Secret Note: Rule 21 is literal. A player with 10 Rules Infractions won't receive a second Official Warning barring another reason.
Potential Rules: Lain:
<24> There will be two lynches during this game day
<25> Each player may use up to two activated abilities and each faction may use each factional ability up to two times during this game cycle
<26> The next game day will have a nonretractable deadline of 5 real-life days
<27> During this game day, players can't be replaced and inactive players will die at the end of the day
<28> During this game day, players cannot quote posts
<29> During this game day, lynch results in the player with the most FoS'es dying instead of the player with the most votes.
<30> At the end of the next game cycle, the player with fewest posts dies
<31> This game day will have a nonretractable deadline of two weeks
<32> This game cycle is skipped entirely
<33> During this game day, No Lynch will occur at deadline Vimes:
<34> Until the next game day, the base time until deadline is increased by 1 week.
<35> The next time a player would be lynched, instead that player will be investigated, the results posted in the thread (the investigation functions as a mod-confirmed Sane Cop's investigation, except the results will be posted in the thread), then the vote count will be reset. Quantum Mechanics:
<36> This game day, the ability resolution order will be reversed. Chairman Mao:
<37> This next game cycle is skipped entirely.
<38> This game day has a fixed deadline of 2 weeks
<39> This game day has a fixed deadline of 12+3d6 days
<40> During this game day, No Lynch will occur at deadline.
<41> This game day, instead of lynching a player, players cast votes to elect a Chairman (King) by majority vote. The King will then decide which player should be lynched today.
<43> During this game day, attempts to unvote will be unsuccessful.
<44> During this game day, votes will shift down by one player slot.
<45> During this game day, no player may make a post with more than 50 words (including quotes). Failure to abide by this restriction is a Rules Infraction.
<46> During this game day, no player may make a post with less than 50 words (not including quotes). Failure to abide by this restriction is a Rules Infraction.
<47> All active ability sanities will be inverted during this game cycle (kills become protections and vice versa, roleblocks become motivates and vice versa, investigations receive opposite results, mod-confirmed investigations receive no result, redirects change target from target 2 to target 1 rather than vice versa, recruits do not work). Joe McCarthy:
<48> <insert rule here>
Quote from "Mind Screw 4" »
<0>: The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
<0> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<0a> Refusal to accept the moderators decision once the moderator has made it clear that the decision is final will be punished by modkill (if applicable) and blacklisting.
<0b> I may, at my discretion, opt to use a greater punishment than usual on one or more players, provided that there is a clear pattern of more than one player violating the same rule and that the player(s) to be punished more severely broke that rule more severely or frequently than other players.
<1> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<2> This is a true Deep South setup. All actions are Rapid Actions (they resolve immediately upon receipt).
<2a> Lynches and abilities resolve on the post count on which they are sent in (via hammer vote or ability submission method, respectively).
<3> This game will have a vote count and a FoS count. Each player will begin with 1 vote (but see Rule 2).
<3a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game. Theme games make no such guarantee.
<4> You may vote to No Lynch any number of times during the game. When at least 50% of voting players are voting No Lynch, No Lynch will occur. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<5> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<5a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<5b> If there is any question about whether something might break the rules, it's probably best if you don't do it or at least ask first.
<5c> Rule 1 is a catchall rule; it is intended to preemptively outlaw any action I consider clearly unacceptable that I have not explicitly outlawed elsewhere, or for assigning a lesser punishment when I feel that the usual punishment for a rule violation would be too harsh. I will do my best not to use the first aspect of this rule, but if I decide that something qualifies as a Rule 1 violation then it is a Rule 1 violation. (See also Rule 0.)
<6> Whenever a player submits an action via PM, that player should also submit the post count on which that action will occur (if no preference, please include the number of the most recent post). Failure to do so will result in a warning on the first offense (the Mod will calculate the appropriate post count for first offense) and failure to submit an action on subsequent offenses.
<7> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill. I have zero tolerance for scumbuddy claims.
<8> If no one has reached majority by deadline, one of the following three things will happen:
a) If a majority of voting players are voting for a player, that player will be lynched.
b) If more than half of voting players are voting for one of two players, each of those players will send me a haiku. Whichever one is more amusing will be spared the rope. (Example: If thirteen players are voting out of 21, and 4 of those are voting for Player A and 5 are voting for Player B, Player A and Player B will need to send me haikus.)
c) If neither a) nor b) are applicable, No Lynch will occur.
<9> All players need to post at least once every 72 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you do not post for 72 hours, you will be prodded. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 72 hours or you will be replaced. You will receive an Official Warning the second time you fail to post for more than 72 hours. The third time you fail to post for 72 hours, you will be replaced.
<9a> If you have limited access, you need to post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<9b> If you post before I get around to handing out the prod, you avoid the prod.
<9c> Players who have a history of being lurkers may be Officially Warned for a first prod and replaced for a second.
<10> When a player is killed, any items he or she possesses drop to the ground. Dropped items can be picked up using the command Grab: ITEMNAME.
<10b> If multiple players attempt to grab the same item, the first player to grab the item gets the item.
<11> I reserve the right to add rules if necessary (or if I really, really want to).
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation. (This rule is an injoke and doesn't actually do anything.)
<13> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. Unvotes are not required; UnFoS'es are required, however, and use the format UnFoS.
<14> Players may use any number of special abilities per day (but see Rule 2). Passive abilities and factional abilities are not counted as special abilities for purposes of this rule.
<15> If a player or No Lynch has a majority of votes (or 50% of votes in the case of No Lynch), that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<16> This game contains a number of reusable and single-use items. Each role may use any number of activated abilities of any items it possesses each day (but see Rule 1).
<17> Any player who is modkilled loses the game unless I specify otherwise. I will modkill in either the fashion that I deem least damaging to the game state or the fashion that I deem most damaging to the modkilled player's faction, at my discretion.
<18> Avatars, signatures, and location may be important to this game. As such, if you want to or are required to change any of these parts of your profile, you must first post Avatar Change, Signature Change, or Location Change (respectively) in the thread.
<19> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod or other members of a Green Zone (should one exist) until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<20> For this game, I am experimenting with the strength of my role-based anti-PM quoting strategies. This game is going to PERMIT mod PM quoting. Quote whatever you want (with one exception - see below).
<20a> All members of nontown factions have the Falseclaim ability ("At any time, you may send me an ability (or set of abilities) and a role name. If you do, I will make a fake role PM for you using the given name and abilities at the earliest possible opportunity. This is a Rapid Action (it resolves immediately upon receipt). You may use this ability any number of times. ") unless explicitly stated otherwise.
<20b> Do not quote QuickTopic links under any circumstances. Violation of this rule will lead to modkill AT MINIMUM.
<21> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<22> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by the method specified in their role PM).
<23> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable.
<24> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
<25> The vote count will be reset at the end of each real-life week until stated otherwise. Added Day 1... oops, there's another mod error...
<26> Until further notice, Rule 5 is revoked. All players will be informed of this.
<27> Until further notice, all players must post once every 48 hours. A player who violates this rule will be prodded. If a player is prodded 5 times, they will be replaced. (Doesn't really work when the mod is as overloaded as I was.)
Quote from "Mind Screw 3 (awesome game)" »
<0> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill.
<4> Quoting private communications (role PM, mason conversations, etc.) or pretending to do the same will result in a modkill. Paraphrasing, however, is not only acceptable but encouraged unless I explicitly say otherwise.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have both a vote count and a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) count. All players will have 1 vote and 1 FoS (but see Rule 2).
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game other than breaking voting ties at deadline. Theme games make no such guarantee. (Especially not this one!)
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player or No Lynch has a majority of votes, that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<8a> If there are an even number of votes in play and No Lynch has exactly 50% of votes, No Lynch will occur.
<9> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable. (Currently overriden by Rule 25.)
<10> If deadline occurs without a full majority and a majority of voting players are voting for a player, that player will be lynched. Otherwise, No Lynch will occur.
<11> You may elect to No Lynch any number of times during the course of the game. In order to No Lynch, one of the two following conditions must be met: either a majority of living players must vote no lynch, or no player receives a majority of votes before deadline. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation. (This rule is an injoke and doesn't actually do anything.)
<13> This is a modified Deep South setup, therefore there are no nights in this game. All abilities must be submitted during the game day and will resolve at the end of day unless otherwise stated.
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> All players need to post at least once every 72 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you do not post for 72 hours, you will be prodded. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 72 hours or you will be replaced. You will receive an Official Warning the second time you fail to post for more than 72 hours. The third time you fail to post for 72 hours, you will be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, you need to post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<15b> If you post before I get around to handing out the prod, you avoid the prod.
<16> Players may only use one special ability per day (but see Rule 2). Passive abilities and factional abilities are not counted as special abilities for purposes of this rule.
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by the method specified in their role PM).
<18> Any player who is modkilled automatically loses the game. I will modkill in the fashion that I deem most damaging to the modkilled player's faction.
<19> I reserve the right to add rules if necessary (or if I really, really want to).
<20> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
<21> Game-specific rule: Whenever a player breaks a rule that is not punishable by modkill, they will be informed that they have committed a rule infraction and told the post number where they broke a rule. For every 5 rules infractions incurred, the guilty player will require 1 fewer vote to lynch. (If the rule broken was a temporary rule, then its associated rules infractions will be removed when the rule is removed.)
<23> Until further notice, if a player would vote for another player, that player will instead vote for the player directly below the intended votee in the player list. (If the player list is A, B, C, D, then when player A attempts to vote for Player C he will vote Player D instead. If the last player on the player list is targeted by a vote, that vote will instead target the first player on the player list.)
<25> Each game day will begin with a nonnegotiable deadline of 21 days in place unless stated otherwise.
Rules that were formerly in effect but have been removed from the game:
<0> The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules. (Added at game start, removed at end of Day 4)
<22> This day will have a non-retractable deadline of 5 real-life days (120 hours). (Added 1 second after game start, removed at end of Day 1)
<24> The next time a player would be lynched, instead that player's alignment will be revealed via official Mod message (functions as a Sane Cop investigation) and the vote count will be reset. This does not end the day. (Added Day 3, removed Day 3)
Quote from "Mind Screw 2" »
Rules:
<0> The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
The rest of the rules (see ModGod for how these become visible):
<0> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill.
<4> Quoting private communications (role PM, mason conversations, etc.) or pretending to do the same will result in a modkill. Paraphrasing, however, is not only acceptable but encouraged unless I explicitly say otherwise.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have both a vote count and a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) count. All players will have 1 vote and 1 FoS (but see Rule 2).
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game other than breaking voting ties at deadline. Theme games make no such guarantee. (Especially not this one!)
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player has a majority of votes, that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<8a> Twilight will always last at least 12 hours unless stated otherwise.
<9> Each game day will begin with a nonnegotiable deadline of 13+1d15 days in place unless stated otherwise. (At the beginning of each day, I will roll a d15, add 13 to the result, and set the deadline accordingly.)
<10> If deadline occurs without a full majority and a majority of voting players are voting for a player, that player will be lynched. Otherwise, No Lynch will occur.
<11> You may elect to No Lynch any number of times during the course of the game. In order to No Lynch, one of the two following conditions must be met: either a majority of living players must vote no lynch, or no player receives a majority of votes before deadline. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation. (This rule is an injoke and doesn't actually do anything.)
<13> This is a modified Deep South setup, therefore there are no nights in this game. All abilities must be submitted during the game day and will resolve at the end of day unless otherwise stated.
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> I require that all players post at least once every 72 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. The first time you violate this rule, you will be prodded and receive an Official Warning. The second time you violate this rule, you will be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, you need to post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<16> Players may only use one special ability per day (but see Rule 2). Passive abilities and factional abilities are not counted as special abilities for purposes of this rule.
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by the method specified in their role PM).
<18> Any player who is modkilled automatically loses the game. I will modkill in the fashion that I deem most damaging to the modkilled player's faction.
<19> I reserve the right to add rules if necessary (or if I really, really want to).
<20> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
<21> Game-specific rule: Whenever a player breaks a rule that is not punishable by modkill, they will be informed that they have committed a rule infraction and told the post number where they broke a rule. For every 5 rules infractions incurred, the guilty player will require 1 fewer vote to lynch. (If the rule broken was a temporary rule, then its associated rules infractions will be removed when the rule is removed.)
Quote from "Mind Screw I" »
<0> Game-specific rule: The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
The rest of the rules (invisible so long as the Godfather ability is active):
<0> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill.
<4> Quoting private communications (role PM, mason conversations, etc.) or pretending to do the same will result in a modkill. Paraphrasing, however, is not only acceptable but encouraged unless I explicitly say otherwise.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have both a vote count and a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) count. All players will have 1 vote and an unlimited number of FoS'es (but see Rule 2)
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game other than breaking voting ties at deadline. Theme games make no such guarantee.
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player has a majority of votes, that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<9> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable.
<10> At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched. In the case of a tie, the player with the most FoS'es will be lynched.
<11> You may elect to No Lynch any number of times during the course of the game. In order to No Lynch, a majority of living players must be vote no lynch. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation.
<13> Each game night will last approximately 4 real-life days (~96 hours) unless stated otherwise.
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> Please try to post at least once every 96 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 96 hours or you may be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, then please post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<16> Players may only use one special ability per day/night cycle (but see rule 2)
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by PM).
<18> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
<19> Game-specific rule: Whenever a player breaks a rule that is not punishable by modkill, they will be informed that they have committed a rule infraction and told the post number where they broke a rule. For every 5 rules infractions incurred, the guilty player will require 1 fewer vote to lynch. (If the rule broken was a temporary rule, then its associated rules infractions will be removed when the rule is removed.)
<20> Game-specific rule: If a player would vote for another player, that player will instead vote for the player directly below the intended votee in the player list.
<21> Game-specific rule: If a player would use a night action on a player, instead that player will target the player below their intended target on the player list.
If you don't feel like reading all of that but are curious as to what sorts of rules we are facing, here is what is likely the core ruleset:
<0> The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
<-1> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<-1a> Refusal to accept the moderators decision once the moderator has made it clear that the decision is final will be punished by modkill (if applicable) and blacklisting.
<-1b> I may, at my discretion, opt to use a greater punishment than usual on one or more players, provided that there is a clear pattern of more than one player violating the same rule and that the player(s) to be punished more severely broke that rule more severely or frequently than other players.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, etc. Please, use your common sense!
<1b> If there is any question about whether something might break the rules, it's probably best if you don't do it or at least ask first.
<1c> Rule 1 is a catchall rule; it is intended to preemptively outlaw any action I consider clearly unacceptable that I have not explicitly outlawed elsewhere, or for assigning a lesser punishment when I feel that the usual punishment for a rule violation would be too harsh. I will do my best not to use the first aspect of this rule, but if I decide that something qualifies as a Rule 1 violation then it is a Rule 1 violation. (See also Rule 0.)
<1d> Faking a violation of a rule will be treated as equivalent to actually violating that rule.
<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.
<3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill. I have zero tolerance for scumbuddy claims.
<4> Do not quote role PMs. Violation of this rule will result in modkill. Role PM quoting includes quoting links to QuickTopics in your role PM or by paraphrases that in my judgment could only come from an actual Tarhalindur PM.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have a vote count and a FoS count. Each player will begin with 1 vote (but see Rule 2).
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game. Theme games make no such guarantee.
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player or No Lynch has a majority of votes (or 50% of votes in the case of No Lynch), that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<9> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable.
<10> If no one has reached majority by deadline, one of the following three things will happen:
a) If a majority of voting players are voting for a player, that player will be lynched.
b) If more than half of voting players are voting for one of two players, each of those players will send me a haiku. Whichever one is more amusing will be spared the rope. (Example: If thirteen players are voting out of 21, and 4 of those are voting for Player A and 5 are voting for Player B, Player A and Player B will need to send me haikus.)
c) If neither a) nor b) are applicable, No Lynch will occur.
<11> You may vote to No Lynch any number of times during the game. When at least 50% of voting players are voting No Lynch, No Lynch will occur. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation. (This rule is an injoke and doesn't actually do anything.)
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> All players need to post at least once every 72 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you do not post for 72 hours, you will be prodded. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 72 hours or you will be replaced. You will receive an Official Warning the second time you fail to post for more than 72 hours. The third time you fail to post for 72 hours, you will be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, you need to post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<15b> If you post before I get around to handing out the prod, you avoid the prod.
<16> Players may only use one activeated ability per day (but see Rule 2).
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by the method specified in their role PM).
<18> Any player who is modkilled loses the game unless I specify otherwise. I will modkill in either the fashion that I deem least damaging to the game state or the fashion that I deem most damaging to the modkilled player's faction, at my discretion.
<19> I reserve the right to add rules if necessary (or if I really, really want to).
<20> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
Like I mentioned in a different post, this is a very minor point.
I'm not gonna vote him though because his ability is confirmable. I look forward to him using it Today. But these are essentially why I distrust him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I urge anyone whose unsure of me to take Tom up on his fake challenge of rereading Classic.
Tom also keeps referring to some sort of case he claims I have failed to respond to. I'm pretty sure I responded to anything substantive that he's posted. Given that so many people have dissed his case he has now flipped his case to being that he "made a bad case on me, on purpose to try and see if [my] anger would be the same". Is anyone buying this nonsense.
Tom you tried to run me up and be confident but you had no case. Only a couple weak players jumped on a short wagon and then you guys got dissed hard by the stronger players in the game. I'm sorry you don't know how to push a lynch yet. I think statistically I have the strongest non-town lynch rate on the site. Making my reads substantially stronger than yours.
You're jumping through hoops trying to put pressure on me but it's pointless. I'm right here Tom...can you get some votes on me? I dare you.
When you flip scum(or scum aligned neutral, which is a theory I have) it shouldn't be hard to find your friends, just like in another game...
not purposely bad. just not that great. it couldnt be at that point.
and what you still havent responded to is 201 and 214.
they are solid posts, but nothing special that should convince someone who already thinks otherwise. or that you shouldnt be able to refute if you were town.
@Tom- Secondly why did you jump on Ghosting. I can't talk about why this looks bad because of an ongoing game. But why are you trying to jump on wagons and then when asked why your only reason is "gut"?
Even with me you said "he's playing a great scum game", "he's angry, but it's different". It's really slippery Tom. As if you're claiming some sort of anger expertise. And to be clear you also fail to consider that even if the emotion someone displays is slightly different that doesn't mean it's alignment indicative. For example, wouldn't I eventually get used to your mistakes and my anger would become more mild? Wouldn't I eventually ignore some of your minor attacks that aren't going to gain much traction?
That's a good point for you to be scum. You assume i'm some sort of loose cannon that can't control myself. When in fact my anger is usually meant to serve a purpose. In every game I've played with you my anger has shown a specific purpose. Doesn't mean I didn't go overboard, sometimes.
On another note after reading your two quoted posts I don't see anything that I haven't responded to.
Why are you trying to jump onto wagons Tom? We need more reasoning then "gut, gut gut". I don't trust your gut...it's usually wrong.
i jumped on ghosting because of nacho. nacho is super good at mafia. i very recently saw him take over and keep town from bumbling away the victory in the classic. he was one of exactly two players responsible for that win.
that, along with my gut, was more than enough to throw a vote. especially when i was actively trying to figure out the vote count thing.
and im no expert on anger. but we arent talking about anger here. we're talking about meta. we're talking about how you respond to me.
if it was different, we've got a null tell and a waste of my awesome fake confidence. but it wasnt different. it was contrived to be the same.
like, the chance of you being town based on that interaction was that you were just doing you but couldnt really get your heart into it. but thats pretty much out the window now.
and if you really see nothing to respond to there, just go ahead and vote yourself now because youre a dead man walking.
while you mull that over, why am i scum-aligned neutral?
i jumped on ghosting because of nacho. nacho is super good at mafia. i very recently saw him take over and keep town from bumbling away the victory in the classic. he was one of exactly two players responsible for that win.
that, along with my gut, was more than enough to throw a vote. especially when i was actively trying to figure out the vote count thing.
and im no expert on anger. but we arent talking about anger here. we're talking about meta. we're talking about how you respond to me.
if it was different, we've got a null tell and a waste of my awesome fake confidence. but it wasnt different. it was contrived to be the same.
like, the chance of you being town based on that interaction was that you were just doing you but couldnt really get your heart into it. but thats pretty much out the window now.
and if you really see nothing to respond to there, just go ahead and vote yourself now because youre a dead man walking.
while you mull that over, why am i scum-aligned neutral?
I was also impressed with Nacho in that game. But you seemed to misread the rest of the players. IABM and I were very critical. You also somehow came across praising Xyre who gave the worst town performance I have ever seen on this website. Without Nacho Xyre would have mislynched all the town players and protected all the scum, which was what he did throughout most of the game. That was actually a pretty strong game for me helping Nacho contain Xyre's nonsense.
Tom you can't keep saying somethings like "This is going to be easy", "you are a dead man walking" , etc. It's not enough for you to show fake confidence and claim some sort of victory. You have to actually be a part of scum lynches. NOT jumping on everyone who gets voted like a starving dog who spotted a bone.
"TS you're different, but you're not different"...wow I sound like a pretty strong player!
ok, we dont need to talk about how integral xyre was in that game. its not the time or the place. or the fact that my "misread the rest of the players" was actually me nailing the scum teams.
ok, we dont need to talk about how integral xyre was in that game. its not the time or the place. or the fact that my "misread the rest of the players" was actually me nailing the scum teams.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Your post #437 is good. Is that the one you are referring to?
I don't think it's damning to Nacho or anything. It just makes me feel better about your mindset in this game and that you're picking out what town would think.
@Killjoy-Should we check Necarg for scum? Or since you are suspicious of Nacho what is your "goal" for today?
@All-Could someone post a list of post counts? (I'm not sure how)
I feel that we aren't getting responsible participation from a decent number of the folks here. It's sure hard to find scum when so many people refuse to speak...
@kj im unimpressed. sure, its unlikely he hit governor again. exactly as unlikely as anyone having that role at any time.
the impulse to try to figure out the setup in a game like this is extra strong for an experienced player like nacho imo. and i already addressed the helpfulness thing.
youre totally right though. im letting tapping talk around the game when i keep saying i wont until he actually responds to something. like, im trying to hold him accountable but hes just so much fun to argue with.
i think we might just be on the same sleep schedule (china and horrible insomnia)
i promise no more until he responds to a case or answers the question he brought up.
oh, after this
@tapping
if you go to the mafia sub, you can click on the post count and it has this list. if you then click on the number next to each person's name you can instantly see their iso. super useful if you want to see everything ive posted and come up with a reason im neutral that doesnt involve knowing im not scum. good luck.
tomsloger 90
TappingStones 81
Ghosting 34
imabusinessman 31
Bur 21
Gentleman Johnny 21
7hawk77 20
leukovirus 20
Nachomamma8 19
Azrael 18
Killjoy 17
D_V 17
RobRoy 11
hansanator 11
Necarg 10
Anaklusmos 9
Taredas 8
DoTArchon 8
Huntzilla 7
Prophylaxis 6
Jobie 6
@Tom-Iso yourself as a thought experiment. Why might I suggest that you are a scum aligned neutral? Then think deeper, why did I ask you this question. Do yourself a favor and actually dig deeper. Brushing it off wont help you.
nope. if you have something to say, say it instead of dancing around it.
come up with something fast or its just a scum slip.
Done trying to include you. Don't expect any more interaction from me this game except when I decide it's time for you to die. Really disappointed in your play. Scum that refuses to make a solid case or town that wants to tunnel. Sad.
i really want to interact with you. i still want to catch your buddies.
i just cant do that to everyone else in the thread if you arent actually going to respond to the case against you or explain your own silly accusation.
so basically, neener neener you started it.
sorry kj. i really am fascinated to see how he gets out of this one though.
Sigh. After skimming over the latest tom-Tapping exchange, I had the same feeling that I did from their earlier ones - that tom's tone was reasonable and that Tapping was being inflammatory. Then I tried going back and reading the post that tomsloger referred to, 214. And from there I re-read the last couple back-and-forths, and man, my sympathy for Tapping has gone up a lot. tom's arguments aren't nearly as coherent as I'd thought they were, and while I still disapprove of some of Tapping's comments, I no longer think that his comments are inconsistent with a townie mindset.
unvote. And since I want to reread him later, I'll vote:7hawk77 for now.
Why are you voting Hawk? Because he claimed without caring?
Also, do you believe his claim, given that that rule he claimed was one that was used in a previous iteration of this game?
The initial vote was because I didn't like the way that he claimed. He threw out information that was basically useless, and seemed to expect some credit for it. I've maintained it because of the phrasing of his attack on Ghosting - the "not completely sold" comment.
As for his claim, sure, I'm willing to believe him. He obviously got the information from somewhere, and from his other posts I don't think he's familiar enough with previous Mind Screws to just decide to riff off them. I believe his claim - I just don't trust him.
Question for all. Why was Proph killed over anyone else? Nacho has claimed some pretty strong abilities, as an example, why do people think he was killed?
By the way, just a general announcement: Previous Mind Screw games (2 and 3) have included the ability Death Note, which allows someone to name a player and a ability name. If they match, then that player dies. If/when we reach claim time, do not claim ability name.
He also linked to the other Mind Screws later on. I'd speculate that whoever took him out - assuming that his death was not self-inflicted - wanted to clear out an experienced player who was familiar with the Screws.
We have a theory. It is possible as long as Tare is alive, a person will be killed at random for failure to engage in a lynch. I am unsure if this is accurate or not, and still working on theory.
Three days into the game, with at least one player who hadn't posted yet? I'd guess inaccurate on this theory. Would you care to share more information about why you theorized this?
Is there scum on tomsloger? If so who and why. Is there scum on Tappingstones? If so who and why.
Hawk is my current vote - his phrasing has made him the person I most strongly believe to be scum. On Tapping, my best guess would be DoTArchon, for his post that I quoted above, but I really can't recall anything substantive coming from either him or Necarg yet this game.
so it looks like our votes go down the playerlist 1 spot. i think that means i want to vote for GJ or robroy, which feels weird.
Ah, that makes sense. Question then being: if (say) Necarg gets up to lynch range, does he die, or do I? That is, are the votes actually being sent to the wrong person, or are they just being displayed wrong?
I am a Governor again, planning on playing it the same way I did in Classic. This is a game of a different nature so I am not confirmed town by ability, however, when j decide to halt a lynch, I can either make the lynched player king for the day (meaning they alone choose the lynch) or publicly reveal their alignment to everyone.
Nacho is probably town (and not due to role reasons).
?
Yo Bur. Take a look at the bold purple. These two things don't go together. I might be missing something. Could you clarify this?
What I meant is that Nacho is not town simply due to his role, but since he claimed it early on. There's 4 different cases:
Nacho is town and governor: This all good and dandy.
Nacho is town and not governor: Nacho is not like IMAB who lies as town all the time through his teeth. (Hence, I'm ignoring this one.)
Nacho is scum and governor: Why would scum!Nacho claim to be a governor early one, since he just could've stayed hidden and used his ability to protect his scumbuddies. Besides, claiming D1 governor and making it to an endgame will most certainly raise some eyebrows...
Nacho is scum and not governor: This can be ruled out by testing his ability. (And no intelligent scum would claim governor D1 unless they want to make a huge gambit that town won't test his ability.)
This feels different...like you're trying to lure us into voting for you, are jester's legal in Mind Screw Mafia?
Don't even joke about that. Jesters are abysmal in Mafia for multiple reasons, the main one being that they make the game unfun for goddamn everyone. Have some respect for the mod and the reviewers.
--
Up to post 433, need to wander off for a bit. Posting this, will get back to it when I can.
if johnny is to be believed (which i think he is), that is now two voices that arent exactly players saying vaguely bad things about nacho.
hmmmm.
@nacho what do?
Read Johnny's latest post again and realize that anything out of Azrael's mouth is not reliable in any sense if the word. As town, he's a straightforward player: he scum hunts with pretty cases and pretty reads. He's not doing that here, I'm not very interested in what he has to say.
Read Johnny's latest post again and realize that anything out of Azrael's mouth is not reliable in any sense if the word. As town, he's a straightforward player: he scum hunts with pretty cases and pretty reads. He's not doing that here, I'm not very interested in what he has to say.
I think it should be pretty clear based on this:
Quote from Taredas »
Azrael is listed as a reviewer in the signups.
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
So, while I would very much like to be as open and straightforward as I can, the amount that I can is pretty circumscribed, not just by considerations of good sportsmanship, but by threat of mod-kill. And the reality is, as I've already alluded to, my role has multiple paths to victory. I could be the best friend of the good guys - there's all sorts of fun mischief we could get up to together- but I believe the scum might be able to find a way to make me wind up dead, and I need to stay alive to win. I don't think it'd be easy for them, but if they put their minds to it, they could probably make it happen, and I doubt the town could prevent that from happening indefinitely.
So if I do intervene too heavily on the side of the town, and make myself public enemy No. 1 for the scum, I probably lose this game. And I have no means of communicating privately with the scum even if I wanted to, so I don't have any plans to coordinate with them. It's possible we could work out a deal where I promise not to work with them in the future, but I don't know if it's a good idea to enter into anything like that right now, it's pretty dangerous.
So all of that leaves me on a very, very narrow tightrope walk.
All things considered, I'm currently coming down on the side of helping the town enough to make myself useful, but not enough to make the mafia pissed off enough to look for ways to knock me out.
While I don't want to antagonize the mafia too much, I would like to offer that we make some trades that would help insulate me from potential mafia interference on the one hand, and that would offer the town some extra night-time powers in recompense.
Here's how it works. During the day, I can target a player and specify a 1-shot ability. At the beginning of the night, the player I target is offered a "balanced, one-shot version" of the specified ability. They can "pay" for the ability by offering me heart, mind, or soul.
Heart reveals their alignment to me, but I've been told that if I claim that knowledge publicly, bad things may happen to me. So that seems pretty useless for all concerned.
Mind would let me have a 1-shot version of one of the players' abilities in trade. The other player chooses which ability I would get, and loses a single use of that ability. So, we could essentially swap some abilities in order to give the town some extra abilities that they want more. If someone wanted to offer me some kind of protective ability by trading mind, that would be cool.
If they pick soul, I have some built-in protection of my own that would become enabled. Essentially, I'd become more difficult to target - that's as much as I can safely say without making my ability so easily countered that it'd be pointless.
So what I'd most prefer is to have people trade me souls, since that gives me the best possible immunity to what the mafia can do to me in retaliation and doesn't take away any of the town's abilities either, but if we have to do minds instead, I'm less well-protected, and the town would be giving up abilities, but we could make it work as an alternative if need be.
if johnny is to be believed (which i think he is), that is now two voices that arent exactly players saying vaguely bad things about nacho.
hmmmm.
@nacho what do?
Read Johnny's latest post again and realize that anything out of Azrael's mouth is not reliable in any sense if the word. As town, he's a straightforward player: he scum hunts with pretty cases and pretty reads. He's not doing that here, I'm not very interested in what he has to say.
Is this because you don't believe him to be town, or that he was saying negative things about you? Also, do you think that he is not posting pretty cases because he doesn't want to, or can't? And you know he is neutral how?
@KJ You bring up some good points about Nacho and reasoning to distrust him, but with his ability being confirmable, is that your preferred course of action for the day? If so, who should he use it on?
i jumped on ghosting because of nacho. nacho is super good at mafia. i very recently saw him take over and keep town from bumbling away the victory in the classic. he was one of exactly two players responsible for that win.
that, along with my gut, was more than enough to throw a vote. especially when i was actively trying to figure out the vote count thing.
Tom, you've said a lot in this thread. Can you please link me to why you believe Nacho is town, and not just good at mafia?
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
So, while I would very much like to be as open and straightforward as I can, the amount that I can is pretty circumscribed, not just by considerations of good sportsmanship, but by threat of mod-kill. And the reality is, as I've already alluded to, my role has multiple paths to victory. I could be the best friend of the good guys - there's all sorts of fun mischief we could get up to together- but I believe the scum might be able to find a way to make me wind up dead, and I need to stay alive to win. I don't think it'd be easy for them, but if they put their minds to it, they could probably make it happen, and I doubt the town could prevent that from happening indefinitely.
So if I do intervene too heavily on the side of the town, and make myself public enemy No. 1 for the scum, I probably lose this game. And I have no means of communicating privately with the scum even if I wanted to, so I don't have any plans to coordinate with them. It's possible we could work out a deal where I promise not to work with them in the future, but I don't know if it's a good idea to enter into anything like that right now, it's pretty dangerous.
So all of that leaves me on a very, very narrow tightrope walk.
All things considered, I'm currently coming down on the side of helping the town enough to make myself useful, but not enough to make the mafia pissed off enough to look for ways to knock me out.
While I don't want to antagonize the mafia too much, I would like to offer that we make some trades that would help insulate me from potential mafia interference on the one hand, and that would offer the town some extra night-time powers in recompense.
Here's how it works. During the day, I can target a player and specify a 1-shot ability. At the beginning of the night, the player I target is offered a "balanced, one-shot version" of the specified ability. They can "pay" for the ability by offering me heart, mind, or soul.
Heart reveals their alignment to me, but I've been told that if I claim that knowledge publicly, bad things may happen to me. So that seems pretty useless for all concerned.
Mind would let me have a 1-shot version of one of the players' abilities in trade. The other player chooses which ability I would get, and loses a single use of that ability. So, we could essentially swap some abilities in order to give the town some extra abilities that they want more. If someone wanted to offer me some kind of protective ability by trading mind, that would be cool.
If they pick soul, I have some built-in protection of my own that would become enabled. Essentially, I'd become more difficult to target - that's as much as I can safely say without making my ability so easily countered that it'd be pointless.
So what I'd most prefer is to have people trade me souls, since that gives me the best possible immunity to what the mafia can do to me in retaliation and doesn't take away any of the town's abilities either, but if we have to do minds instead, I'm less well-protected, and the town would be giving up abilities, but we could make it work as an alternative if need be.
Interesting indeed. Having played an out-of-game neutral myself, I approve of you being honest about being self-serving. Couple questions, if you're willing/able to answer - one about your abilities, one about the setup.
1) You have stated the "drawbacks" to the player you offer the one-shot ability to for Heart (their alignment revealed to you) and Mind (they have to give you a one-shot in return), but you have not stated a drawback for Soul - the option you have stated a preference for. Can you elaborate?
2) It feels like, in a game with a normal setup, it would be very easy for you to determine whether someone is townie or scum based on their claimed abilities. If someone claims Roleblocker, and you know that the scum have one but the town doesn't, then bam. Player caught... unless this game features role randomization, where roles were not designed specifically as town or scum, like in Inheritance or Ataghan. Are you able to comment on this?
Again, based on what you said earlier, I am very willing to accept an answer of "I will not be answering that question." for either of these.. although giving that answer for 1) will very much reduce my own willingness to pay the Soul price.
Interesting indeed. Having played an out-of-game neutral myself, I approve of you being honest about being self-serving. Couple questions, if you're willing/able to answer - one about your abilities, one about the setup.
1) You have stated the "drawbacks" to the player you offer the one-shot ability to for Heart (their alignment revealed to you) and Mind (they have to give you a one-shot in return), but you have not stated a drawback for Soul - the option you have stated a preference for. Can you elaborate?
2) It feels like, in a game with a normal setup, it would be very easy for you to determine whether someone is townie or scum based on their claimed abilities. If someone claims Roleblocker, and you know that the scum have one but the town doesn't, then bam. Player caught... unless this game features role randomization, where roles were not designed specifically as town or scum, like in Inheritance or Ataghan. Are you able to comment on this?
Again, based on what you said earlier, I am very willing to accept an answer of "I will not be answering that question." for either of these.. although giving that answer for 1) will very much reduce my own willingness to pay the Soul price.
As to #1, I can say there will be no immediate negative effect, and possibly no negative effect at all, for that player. If there is a negative effect, it could range from totally unnoticeable, to life-threatening, and I have no control whatsoever over those consequences.
So I don't recommend that the town's power roles volunteer to choose soul. Someone whose debilitation wouldn't cripple the town would probably be for the best.
I am not allowed to comment on #2. Even if I were, I've also explicitly been told there have been changes made, some of which I won't much care for.
Also I think if be fine with lynching Az. I'm curious what would happen.
1) Is that even possible? None of the votecounts have a vote listed for Azrael, and he seemed more worried about nightkills than a lynch. Has anyone actually tried voting for him yet?
2) I really don't see "curious" as a good reason to waste a lynch on a self-professed neutral, especially one who is taking care to not upset the balance of the game too much. You really aren't making me regret my vote, here.
so azrael is lucifer. he wants our souls. thats not ominous.
@robroy i like you this game. i was really hoping to have two player consecutively i thought were scummy so i can vote with less worry, but you arent letting that happen :/
as for nacho, i more or less agree with burs role related reasoning. its just too easy to prove. hes not, like, 100% town even after hes proven his role. but im fairly comfortable putting him in the town pile for now.
in the classic, i died Day 2 but if i hadnt known the setup in spec chat i would have gotten super worried when he was still alive late game. probably be a similar situation here.
if johnny is to be believed (which i think he is), that is now two voices that arent exactly players saying vaguely bad things about nacho.
hmmmm.
@nacho what do?
Read Johnny's latest post again and realize that anything out of Azrael's mouth is not reliable in any sense if the word. As town, he's a straightforward player: he scum hunts with pretty cases and pretty reads. He's not doing that here, I'm not very interested in what he has to say.
johnny isnt saying bad things about you. the voice in his head is.
but since azrael revealed he was saying your name when he meant tar, its no longer a pattern.
are you expecting me to believe that paradise lost is an unrelated note after you started talking about taking souls?
where im at right now:
town: DV, hans, robroy
lean town: gj, nacho, kj, bur
meh but not willing to lynch: imab, hawk, leuk, hunt
neutral-slightly scummy: dota, ghosting, necarg
scum: tapping
i have very much a bell curve right now. with only DV at ride or die town (which is probably stupid) and only tapping more than 50% likely to be scum. and a couple that have left literally no impression on me.
im honestly kind of at a loss with where to go other than tapping. like, if you people really arent gonna listen to me i dont feel particularly strongly about anyone else.
necarg and dota need to say some stuff.
is darth melvin being replaced soon?
still really want nacho to prove it. kinda want to join the az wagon but, like, whatever.
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
If you think it's a scumtell (and I agree with you on that part), then why didn't you vote me for voting Taredas?
I missed it.
Unvote: Jobie
Vote: Prophylaxis
Jobie has a conceivable reason for his action with his vote on an NPC. Why did you vote Taredas? Also do you have links to the previous MindScrew Mafia games?
Terrible vote following terrible logic.
Also, wouldn't sharing information be friendly for the town?
Sharing is caring after all, and we all must do our part.
pone posting to give everyone a heads up that he's town. Just an fyi to head everyone off the focus of a garbage wagon and onto something better.
d v is trolling for reactions. I look forward to him getting into the game and doing something useful. rvs is over.
.
Attempt to discredit friendly old me.
This one! Assumes, that I would be looking for reactions.
Claims it's not second day...doesn't interrogete Hans. Maybe you should have stuck with lurking. I'm no longer suspicious of Jobie but I am of D V
I see other people's questions and ill address them when I have more time.
Ahhh, it clearly is the first day and not the second day. It may say it is the second day, but if it was the second day then I would most definitely be here, but I am not, so clearly it is still the first day and not the second.
One says they are suspicious of me, but has done nothing about this.
Also, don't send me your night actions. That would be a bad thing. Hilarious, but bad.
At least, for the time being...
Are you the co-mod of this game?
Are you also a player in this game?
Do you have full access to this game's setup?
...Is Taredas also playing in this game?
accidentally quoted hans instead of tapping in my last post, sorry. doing it from my phone and i just woke up so formatting got screwy
@imab what tipped the scales for you for into thinking no lynch/governer is a good plan. im still on the fence
Usually I have some good scumreads by now. All of my scumreads have evaporated and I'm feeling lost. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a question or two. Otherwise I might have to resort to some generic catchall questions I've kept around that I hate having to use.
Ahh, so now I no longer have suspicion on me.
May I be as so bold to ask what changed your mind?
The heart behind this vote is being underwhelmed, which is mainly a meta read (sorry). The main thing that stands out to me in his play as town is how hard he pushes reads and how he manages to make reads and jump into the fray of things and how unafraid he is to do so: in every game I've seen him in, he has possessed and pushed strong reads early and so his statement of being "lost" rings pretty hollow to me.
I didn't like his initial pushes on Jobie/Proph for voting non-players. It is the easiest thing you can attack early game (because it's weird and not normal), and his push lacked any sort of oomph behind it at all (he let Jobie off the hook because "voting for an NPC sort of had a reason", and then voted Proph when he pointed out he voted for Tar). His stances on Tom and TS (TS's emotion is genuine, Tom is typical Tom) are very surface-level and don't feel like an effort to engage in the game in any way whatsoever; if I was trying to characterize his entire ISO in a word, it would be "empty" and that's not how town ISOs look.
FoS: Azrael
Meta fail.
I did have good reasons for voting Jobie and Proph. However it turned out that NPC's are in this game. Apparently so are Taredas and Azrael in some fashion.
As for the TS/Tom discussion I think you should re-read my assessments there. That read on TS is not surface level. As for tom, yeah it's very much a "gives 0 ****s" read but if you recall I was fine with just faking a guilty on him because I had such a strong read. And I'll give myself full credit for helping to lynch someone who was "not town". Trust me, when I think I've got something solid I'll be sure to let people know.
As for my Iso being "empty" I think that's a mischaracterization. Even when I stated why I felt lost there was reasons for doing so unless you would like to elaborate on why those reasons felt faked. Compare how easy it was to catch EtR, Sir Chris, and to a lesser extent GentleMan Johnny in Classic. This makes me believe that the scum are just better players which is why I said I'm paranoid of you and 7Hawk. Speaking of you...
@IMAB: Want to share with the rest of us why TS is town?
Because his behavior is town. It's one of those things hard to describe. I see his though process coming from town. I see his frustration at the accusation of "rolefishing" as townie. To be clear it's not the frustration that's townie, it's the way he's displaying that frustration.
Scum rage is still rational and has a logical thought process. Town rage tends to be more visceral and less logical.
BTW, "rolefishing" is in the eye of the beholder which is why T.S. doesn't consider his action rolefishing and other people do. Hence the fuel of his frustration. You all can keep fighting but Tappingstones is town and I'm more likely to scumread the people pushing him about it. This argument is obviously about how people define terms.
This read on Tappingstones is hardly "surface level" and it goes into detail about exactly why T/S is angry AND differentiates between town/scum frustrations.
You're better than this Nacho...
Unvote: No Lynch Vote: Nachomamma8
Oh yeah. And you never did answer if you can governor yourself from last game...
Ahh, so now it is Nachomamma8. Once again leaving me to attack another. Never building cases or saying anything of merit. Fluttering from low hanging fruit to fruit.
@Huntzilla: Why are IMAB and KJ town to you? I like your opening posts so far.
IMAB: Could you remind me why you voted Jobie and Proph if my initial interpretation was a misrep of your read?
I also still think that your TS read was surface level: there were a lot of words, yes, but the reasoning just quite wasn't there and I'll try to expand on that during my lunch.
Scum vote players outside of the game so that they can avoid contributing game content while also falsely appearing relaxed or playful. That's why the "tell" exists: because it's classic busywork masquerading as a contribution.
However since both NPC's and Taredas/Azrael are in this game in some fashion, voting for them is actually game relevant. Thus negating the "tell". You expect me to keep voting someone when it turns out that the reason for the vote was false? You've mistaken zeal with blind tunneling. Nacho, you're better than that.
@whomever...
OMGUS is a core strategy of my gameplay.
I omgus'd Zionite in Animal mafia and he was scum.
I omgus'd KamikazeArchon in Avante Garde and he was scum.
I OMGUS'd Askthepizzaguy, and Vezokpiraka off OMGUS and then POE'd Koolkoal off their flips.
So yes it's literally OMGUS. Who gives a crap? OMGUS=OH MY GOD U SUK and Nacho's reasoning sucks.
Ahhh, is this the catch you speak of?
Once again I ask, how could a scum player vote “Outside” of the game, if they themselves do not know that they are scum. As for the rest you yourself have said that RVS means nothing.
C'mon people, it's not everyday that SCUM!Nacho gets found 'cuz he's good at the game of mafia.
On that note I'm going to have to resort to my "generic list of questions" for people I haven't interacted with yet...
@killjoy
D_V insists it's not day one.
Hansanator insists it is day two. Yet they are absolutely not trying to interrogate each other. Do you think this is some scum gambit? I tried to ask D_V about it and got "why would I ask Hans about that?" or some such. Hansanator is mostly afk and I don't like trying to get info from people who are afk a lot.
I am a Governor again, planning on playing it the same way I did in Classic. This is a game of a different nature so I am not confirmed town by ability, however, when j decide to halt a lynch, I can either make the lynched player king for the day (meaning they alone choose the lynch) or publicly reveal their alignment to everyone.
Nacho is probably town (and not due to role reasons).
?
Yo Bur. Take a look at the bold purple. These two things don't go together. I might be missing something. Could you clarify this?
Once again questioning others about me sir. You seemed convinced that I am a dirty no fun communist but once again refuse to actually do anything yourself.
The router at my house isn't allowing wireless access and won't be until Brighthouse comes and fixes it Wednesday, so I'm stuck with my phone and using the Ethernet until then. I also have midterms tomorrow and Thursday, so I will be slightly less focused on this. I'm definitely able to respond to any questions, but don't expect much tonight or tomorrow.
There's not a single truthful statement in post 493. However I noticed D_V's avatar has changed. It could be that D_V has an "angel" aspect and a "devil" aspect.
@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Az, your claim:
Meanwhile, KJ is still as townie as ever.
1)testing nacho's claim.
2) Lynching a neutral isn't as good as lynching scum but it's much better than mislynching a townie.
3) Paranoia+pressure. I also don't trust the Azrael/Taredas "slots". Az has stated that he's not playing up to his potential. If he doesn't step up his game then we can lynch him. We can essentially force him to make himself a more valuable target than townies and if he doesn't then we lose nothing since he's not town. If he plays well enough to scare the scum team into killing him then we lose nothing. If he continues to not impress then we can lynch him and also lose nothing.
There's not a single truthful statement in post 493. However I noticed D_V's avatar has changed. It could be that D_V has an "angel" aspect and a "devil" aspect.
Hey DV: Will you be able to articulate more Tomorrow, or will you still have the PR? I'm tempted to delve though your posts and try to decrypt what you're trying to say, but if you can talk more tomorrow, we can just not lynch you today and call it good, then you can explain more tomorrow. If not obv I will make some notes.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Just because I am not running the show doesn't mean I am not playing the game. I simply don't have a lead I want to pursue right now. My slight intrigue is why IMAB thinks everything DV said is a lie, but I am assuming there will be an explanation soon, or at least a vote and case against DV.
Do you mind repeating the questions? The pace of the game has been rather fast, and it would mean a lot to me
There was a scum read I thought I might find based on what I saw as some careful postings this game, and use of emoticons but both of those things read consistent in his previous town and scum games.
First post this game, claims Governor. At first, I didn't look at this twice. Partially because of the openness of the claim, partially because apperently he was a governor recently in a different game and I guess approached his claim in much the same way. But the more I think about it... the more wary I become of this claim. I know this is technically Gambler's Fallacy, but being Governor in two games so close together seems unlikely. Governor is not a common role. I think in all my games, I have seen it once. It makes me paranoid that he's claiming it again so soon.
A possible point in his favor though is that if Governor has appeared in games I was not in, I likely didn't see it.
Question @ Rob & GJ: How many times have largeish games you've played in had a governor?
If Governor is as rare as I think it is, I feel it's unlikely that Nacho managed to get it twice so quickly.
My problem here is that Nacho is calling others to discuss Tar/Az in leiu of other more important things. Yes, Tar had a role in previous games, but D1 with limited info we should obviously be hunting scum. Trying to figure out extensively what Tar/Az are up to isn't a good idea. Like, if he was trying to figure it out himself instead of asking us to discuss it with him I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it... but it just feels like he's trying to detract us with mechanics-talk.
Like I mentioned in a different post, this is a very minor point.
I'm not gonna vote him though because his ability is confirmable. I look forward to him using it Today. But these are essentially why I distrust him.
Tom also keeps referring to some sort of case he claims I have failed to respond to. I'm pretty sure I responded to anything substantive that he's posted. Given that so many people have dissed his case he has now flipped his case to being that he "made a bad case on me, on purpose to try and see if [my] anger would be the same". Is anyone buying this nonsense.
Tom you tried to run me up and be confident but you had no case. Only a couple weak players jumped on a short wagon and then you guys got dissed hard by the stronger players in the game. I'm sorry you don't know how to push a lynch yet. I think statistically I have the strongest non-town lynch rate on the site. Making my reads substantially stronger than yours.
You're jumping through hoops trying to put pressure on me but it's pointless. I'm right here Tom...can you get some votes on me? I dare you.
When you flip scum(or scum aligned neutral, which is a theory I have) it shouldn't be hard to find your friends, just like in another game...
and what you still havent responded to is 201 and 214.
they are solid posts, but nothing special that should convince someone who already thinks otherwise. or that you shouldnt be able to refute if you were town.
so why didnt you even try?
but that point is a bit silly when i loudly announced i was gonna be different this game before receiving my role PM.
Even with me you said "he's playing a great scum game", "he's angry, but it's different". It's really slippery Tom. As if you're claiming some sort of anger expertise. And to be clear you also fail to consider that even if the emotion someone displays is slightly different that doesn't mean it's alignment indicative. For example, wouldn't I eventually get used to your mistakes and my anger would become more mild? Wouldn't I eventually ignore some of your minor attacks that aren't going to gain much traction?
That's a good point for you to be scum. You assume i'm some sort of loose cannon that can't control myself. When in fact my anger is usually meant to serve a purpose. In every game I've played with you my anger has shown a specific purpose. Doesn't mean I didn't go overboard, sometimes.
On another note after reading your two quoted posts I don't see anything that I haven't responded to.
Why are you trying to jump onto wagons Tom? We need more reasoning then "gut, gut gut". I don't trust your gut...it's usually wrong.
that, along with my gut, was more than enough to throw a vote. especially when i was actively trying to figure out the vote count thing.
and im no expert on anger. but we arent talking about anger here. we're talking about meta. we're talking about how you respond to me.
if it was different, we've got a null tell and a waste of my awesome fake confidence. but it wasnt different. it was contrived to be the same.
like, the chance of you being town based on that interaction was that you were just doing you but couldnt really get your heart into it. but thats pretty much out the window now.
and if you really see nothing to respond to there, just go ahead and vote yourself now because youre a dead man walking.
while you mull that over, why am i scum-aligned neutral?
I was also impressed with Nacho in that game. But you seemed to misread the rest of the players. IABM and I were very critical. You also somehow came across praising Xyre who gave the worst town performance I have ever seen on this website. Without Nacho Xyre would have mislynched all the town players and protected all the scum, which was what he did throughout most of the game. That was actually a pretty strong game for me helping Nacho contain Xyre's nonsense.
Tom you can't keep saying somethings like "This is going to be easy", "you are a dead man walking" , etc. It's not enough for you to show fake confidence and claim some sort of victory. You have to actually be a part of scum lynches. NOT jumping on everyone who gets voted like a starving dog who spotted a bone.
"TS you're different, but you're not different"...wow I sound like a pretty strong player!
why am i neutral?
I asked you that question Tom.
you obviously think you have something good since you brought it up, so just out with it.
Tom: what do you think of my nacho post?
Actually, Tapping. Same question.
I wanna hear your opinions about people other than each other.
I don't think it's damning to Nacho or anything. It just makes me feel better about your mindset in this game and that you're picking out what town would think.
@Killjoy-Should we check Necarg for scum? Or since you are suspicious of Nacho what is your "goal" for today?
I feel that we aren't getting responsible participation from a decent number of the folks here. It's sure hard to find scum when so many people refuse to speak...
the impulse to try to figure out the setup in a game like this is extra strong for an experienced player like nacho imo. and i already addressed the helpfulness thing.
youre totally right though. im letting tapping talk around the game when i keep saying i wont until he actually responds to something. like, im trying to hold him accountable but hes just so much fun to argue with.
i think we might just be on the same sleep schedule (china and horrible insomnia)
i promise no more until he responds to a case or answers the question he brought up.
oh, after this
@tapping
if you go to the mafia sub, you can click on the post count and it has this list. if you then click on the number next to each person's name you can instantly see their iso. super useful if you want to see everything ive posted and come up with a reason im neutral that doesnt involve knowing im not scum. good luck.
tomsloger 90
TappingStones 81
Ghosting 34
imabusinessman 31
Bur 21
Gentleman Johnny 21
7hawk77 20
leukovirus 20
Nachomamma8 19
Azrael 18
Killjoy 17
D_V 17
RobRoy 11
hansanator 11
Necarg 10
Anaklusmos 9
Taredas 8
DoTArchon 8
Huntzilla 7
Prophylaxis 6
Jobie 6
come up with something fast or its just a scum slip.
Done trying to include you. Don't expect any more interaction from me this game except when I decide it's time for you to die. Really disappointed in your play. Scum that refuses to make a solid case or town that wants to tunnel. Sad.
i really want to interact with you. i still want to catch your buddies.
i just cant do that to everyone else in the thread if you arent actually going to respond to the case against you or explain your own silly accusation.
so basically, neener neener you started it.
sorry kj. i really am fascinated to see how he gets out of this one though.
I put sepiriel and jskura on ignore during Final Fantasy.
Sepiriel was just flat out lying and jskura was intentionally acting in a way as to not contribute to the game.
Good idea. When Im back on my computer and off my phone tomorrow that will be one of the first orders of business.
In the meantime Im very eager to engage with nonTom entities.
@Nacho-Did you ever answer my governor question?
@DOTA-Why did you unvote me?
@killjoy-Who is town and WHY?
also, thats "screw you, im taking my ball and going home" on the TS responds to tom checklist if anyone is following along at home.
man i hope he isnt somehow town and just too angry to respond appropriately right now. thats way less fun than nailing scum and watching them squirm.
I assume that since this is still Day 2, Part 2 that there have been no mod events since Proph's death?
Well, this doesn't actually make me more likely to think that Nacho is scum... but I do have to respect the double down.
I dislike this comment. It really just makes me think that DoTArchon was forcing himself to participate, and actively trying to appear townie.
The initial vote was because I didn't like the way that he claimed. He threw out information that was basically useless, and seemed to expect some credit for it. I've maintained it because of the phrasing of his attack on Ghosting - the "not completely sold" comment.
As for his claim, sure, I'm willing to believe him. He obviously got the information from somewhere, and from his other posts I don't think he's familiar enough with previous Mind Screws to just decide to riff off them. I believe his claim - I just don't trust him.
Proph's first post included this warning:
He also linked to the other Mind Screws later on. I'd speculate that whoever took him out - assuming that his death was not self-inflicted - wanted to clear out an experienced player who was familiar with the Screws.
Three days into the game, with at least one player who hadn't posted yet? I'd guess inaccurate on this theory. Would you care to share more information about why you theorized this?
Hawk is my current vote - his phrasing has made him the person I most strongly believe to be scum. On Tapping, my best guess would be DoTArchon, for his post that I quoted above, but I really can't recall anything substantive coming from either him or Necarg yet this game.
Ah, that makes sense. Question then being: if (say) Necarg gets up to lynch range, does he die, or do I? That is, are the votes actually being sent to the wrong person, or are they just being displayed wrong?
For the record, that really is for role reasons.
Don't even joke about that. Jesters are abysmal in Mafia for multiple reasons, the main one being that they make the game unfun for goddamn everyone. Have some respect for the mod and the reviewers.
--
Up to post 433, need to wander off for a bit. Posting this, will get back to it when I can.
Read Johnny's latest post again and realize that anything out of Azrael's mouth is not reliable in any sense if the word. As town, he's a straightforward player: he scum hunts with pretty cases and pretty reads. He's not doing that here, I'm not very interested in what he has to say.
How did you learn that?
I think it should be pretty clear based on this:
That my role is pretty unusual. Taredas is trusting me not to blow up his game, and I'm taking that very seriously. I can't tell you when the last time was that I may or may not have looked at anything that any other player doesn't have access to; and I do not know who is assigned to which role. I also don't think it'd be good sportsmanship for me to use any special knowledge I may or may not have to implicate people, so I've successfully forgotten most everything I may or may not have ever known, and don't intend to refresh my memory unless I'm forced to at some point.
So, while I would very much like to be as open and straightforward as I can, the amount that I can is pretty circumscribed, not just by considerations of good sportsmanship, but by threat of mod-kill. And the reality is, as I've already alluded to, my role has multiple paths to victory. I could be the best friend of the good guys - there's all sorts of fun mischief we could get up to together- but I believe the scum might be able to find a way to make me wind up dead, and I need to stay alive to win. I don't think it'd be easy for them, but if they put their minds to it, they could probably make it happen, and I doubt the town could prevent that from happening indefinitely.
So if I do intervene too heavily on the side of the town, and make myself public enemy No. 1 for the scum, I probably lose this game. And I have no means of communicating privately with the scum even if I wanted to, so I don't have any plans to coordinate with them. It's possible we could work out a deal where I promise not to work with them in the future, but I don't know if it's a good idea to enter into anything like that right now, it's pretty dangerous.
So all of that leaves me on a very, very narrow tightrope walk.
All things considered, I'm currently coming down on the side of helping the town enough to make myself useful, but not enough to make the mafia pissed off enough to look for ways to knock me out.
While I don't want to antagonize the mafia too much, I would like to offer that we make some trades that would help insulate me from potential mafia interference on the one hand, and that would offer the town some extra night-time powers in recompense.
Here's how it works. During the day, I can target a player and specify a 1-shot ability. At the beginning of the night, the player I target is offered a "balanced, one-shot version" of the specified ability. They can "pay" for the ability by offering me heart, mind, or soul.
Heart reveals their alignment to me, but I've been told that if I claim that knowledge publicly, bad things may happen to me. So that seems pretty useless for all concerned.
Mind would let me have a 1-shot version of one of the players' abilities in trade. The other player chooses which ability I would get, and loses a single use of that ability. So, we could essentially swap some abilities in order to give the town some extra abilities that they want more. If someone wanted to offer me some kind of protective ability by trading mind, that would be cool.
If they pick soul, I have some built-in protection of my own that would become enabled. Essentially, I'd become more difficult to target - that's as much as I can safely say without making my ability so easily countered that it'd be pointless.
So what I'd most prefer is to have people trade me souls, since that gives me the best possible immunity to what the mafia can do to me in retaliation and doesn't take away any of the town's abilities either, but if we have to do minds instead, I'm less well-protected, and the town would be giving up abilities, but we could make it work as an alternative if need be.
Is this because you don't believe him to be town, or that he was saying negative things about you? Also, do you think that he is not posting pretty cases because he doesn't want to, or can't? And you know he is neutral how?
@KJ You bring up some good points about Nacho and reasoning to distrust him, but with his ability being confirmable, is that your preferred course of action for the day? If so, who should he use it on?
Vote: Azrael
Choo Choo!!!
Tom, you've said a lot in this thread. Can you please link me to why you believe Nacho is town, and not just good at mafia?
I would also like to know why you said this.
Interesting indeed. Having played an out-of-game neutral myself, I approve of you being honest about being self-serving. Couple questions, if you're willing/able to answer - one about your abilities, one about the setup.
1) You have stated the "drawbacks" to the player you offer the one-shot ability to for Heart (their alignment revealed to you) and Mind (they have to give you a one-shot in return), but you have not stated a drawback for Soul - the option you have stated a preference for. Can you elaborate?
2) It feels like, in a game with a normal setup, it would be very easy for you to determine whether someone is townie or scum based on their claimed abilities. If someone claims Roleblocker, and you know that the scum have one but the town doesn't, then bam. Player caught... unless this game features role randomization, where roles were not designed specifically as town or scum, like in Inheritance or Ataghan. Are you able to comment on this?
Again, based on what you said earlier, I am very willing to accept an answer of "I will not be answering that question." for either of these.. although giving that answer for 1) will very much reduce my own willingness to pay the Soul price.
I'm thoroughly confused why I'd have a role that gives me rules in this game when it matched up to onr of the old rules of another mind screw mafia.
Also I think if be fine with lynching Az. I'm curious what would happen.
@hans
You said you asked me something? Couldn't find it.
Outdated Mafia Stats
As to #1, I can say there will be no immediate negative effect, and possibly no negative effect at all, for that player. If there is a negative effect, it could range from totally unnoticeable, to life-threatening, and I have no control whatsoever over those consequences.
So I don't recommend that the town's power roles volunteer to choose soul. Someone whose debilitation wouldn't cripple the town would probably be for the best.
I am not allowed to comment on #2. Even if I were, I've also explicitly been told there have been changes made, some of which I won't much care for.
I can't be lynched, but I'm so glad to know that a few of you feel that way about me. It gives me all sorts of warm fuzzies.
I believe you meant to say potential rules, since you said earlier that you don't even know if they are actually in this game?
1) Is that even possible? None of the votecounts have a vote listed for Azrael, and he seemed more worried about nightkills than a lynch. Has anyone actually tried voting for him yet?
2) I really don't see "curious" as a good reason to waste a lynch on a self-professed neutral, especially one who is taking care to not upset the balance of the game too much. You really aren't making me regret my vote, here.
Mind elaborating?
@GJ: Are you planning on answering my questions to you? Actually, are even planning on playing this game?
Az, your claim:
Meanwhile, KJ is still as townie as ever.
@robroy i like you this game. i was really hoping to have two player consecutively i thought were scummy so i can vote with less worry, but you arent letting that happen :/
as for nacho, i more or less agree with burs role related reasoning. its just too easy to prove. hes not, like, 100% town even after hes proven his role. but im fairly comfortable putting him in the town pile for now.
in the classic, i died Day 2 but if i hadnt known the setup in spec chat i would have gotten super worried when he was still alive late game. probably be a similar situation here.
johnny isnt saying bad things about you. the voice in his head is.
but since azrael revealed he was saying your name when he meant tar, its no longer a pattern.
oh, and
@tapping why am i neutral?
I promise to keep them safe and give them all good homes.
On an unrelated note, certain aspects of this game remind me of the plot-line to Paradise Lost. Just gonna keep on throwing subtle hints out there.
where im at right now:
town: DV, hans, robroy
lean town: gj, nacho, kj, bur
meh but not willing to lynch: imab, hawk, leuk, hunt
neutral-slightly scummy: dota, ghosting, necarg
scum: tapping
i have very much a bell curve right now. with only DV at ride or die town (which is probably stupid) and only tapping more than 50% likely to be scum. and a couple that have left literally no impression on me.
im honestly kind of at a loss with where to go other than tapping. like, if you people really arent gonna listen to me i dont feel particularly strongly about anyone else.
necarg and dota need to say some stuff.
is darth melvin being replaced soon?
still really want nacho to prove it. kinda want to join the az wagon but, like, whatever.
How could one who doesn't even have their role give off a scum tell?
As for pregame people clearly thought it was RVS. So is all RVS a scum tell?
Pray tell.
Terrible vote following terrible logic.
Also, wouldn't sharing information be friendly for the town?
Sharing is caring after all, and we all must do our part.
.
Attempt to discredit friendly old me.
This one! Assumes, that I would be looking for reactions.
Ahhh, it clearly is the first day and not the second day. It may say it is the second day, but if it was the second day then I would most definitely be here, but I am not, so clearly it is still the first day and not the second.
One says they are suspicious of me, but has done nothing about this.
Why vote no lynch when you could have pressured little old me yes?
Ahh, so now I no longer have suspicion on me.
May I be as so bold to ask what changed your mind?
Ahh I see, right back to me.
May I once again ask what has caused this waffling?
One calling another person as a member of those silly commies and then asking others to make a case on why that person is guilty.
Are you sir Joseph McCarthy?
Ahh, so now it is Nachomamma8. Once again leaving me to attack another. Never building cases or saying anything of merit. Fluttering from low hanging fruit to fruit.
What catch good sir?
You never did explain this.
Ahhh, is this the catch you speak of?
Once again I ask, how could a scum player vote “Outside” of the game, if they themselves do not know that they are scum. As for the rest you yourself have said that RVS means nothing.
A convincing argument sir! You argue with the gusto of your profile picture.
Once again questioning others about me sir. You seemed convinced that I am a dirty no fun communist but once again refuse to actually do anything yourself.
An now sir, on to the next target.
For one convinced I and others are obvious scum you seem to flit around quite a lot.
Also the curious case of defending TS, is rather odd to me and others have brought this up as well.
You good sir are a no good rotten commy.
And you hate fun.
Mao.
Unvote Vote imabusinessman
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
1)testing nacho's claim.
2) Lynching a neutral isn't as good as lynching scum but it's much better than mislynching a townie.
3) Paranoia+pressure. I also don't trust the Azrael/Taredas "slots". Az has stated that he's not playing up to his potential. If he doesn't step up his game then we can lynch him. We can essentially force him to make himself a more valuable target than townies and if he doesn't then we lose nothing since he's not town. If he plays well enough to scare the scum team into killing him then we lose nothing. If he continues to not impress then we can lynch him and also lose nothing.
So nothing that you said is true.
Interesting.
Are you going to answer any of my questions?
Just because I am not running the show doesn't mean I am not playing the game. I simply don't have a lead I want to pursue right now. My slight intrigue is why IMAB thinks everything DV said is a lie, but I am assuming there will be an explanation soon, or at least a vote and case against DV.
Do you mind repeating the questions? The pace of the game has been rather fast, and it would mean a lot to me
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Don't want to answer yet.
Good plan!