Bur, you might have a high vote count, but you are coming off as echoing me pretty hard. I want some original thought.
What town vibes are you getting from Tom? I am not even super sure Tapping is town, but what I am getting is that the two votes I saw are pretty terrible.
@tapping first of all, yeah not talking about stargate.
second he was in my first game and in another past game i read. and hes been an open book every time.
third, and most importantly, are you asserting he isnt easy to read? because im pretty sure thats the claim that needs justified
as for hawk, i dont really care. his vote seemed rvs or rvs adjacent. but even if serious, like, whatever. id rather lynch scum than defend myself against an unknown.
and yeah, im not as confident as im letting on.
im maybe 80% sure hans is town and 67% sure tapping is scum.
but **** if im not gonna be confident and forceful if im not gonna be silly.
though i will say im more confident in my read of TS now than when i started
@GJ are you now simultaneously advocating a no lynch to give away less information and lowering the threshold for claims? those dont match bro.
@Tom: Pulling percentage out of your ass is not a great way. I also don't believe you can be that confidant in Han's townieness when there is a relatively high chance he is lying. And that is not based on his sig.
@GJ are you now simultaneously advocating a no lynch to give away less information and lowering the threshold for claims? those dont match bro.
I am suggesting caution. If you read my post before, you would know that I was suggesting we use Nacho to move forward with a no lynch, essentially as a public day cop shot instead of a lynch. I get what I want, Nacho gets confirmed, as does his target.
Bur, you might have a high vote count, but you are coming off as echoing me pretty hard. I want some original thought.
What town vibes are you getting from Tom? I am not even super sure Tapping is town, but what I am getting is that the two votes I saw are pretty terrible.
I think Tom is town since his posts seem sincere, he's making good points about Hansa (Why would scum!Hansa claim something like that?) and that I don't like TS much.
What do you think of Tom?
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@IMAB Was it Jobie's vote of Rod Serling that set you off, or what else tipped you to a serious vote on him?
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
It proved itself in AVANTE-GARDE mafia. I just didn't push it hard enough and let it go when I shouldn't have.
How is voting someone outside of the game something that scum are more likely to do than town? Especially in a game where the mechanics are all over the place, why would town not want to learn as much as they can about what is or isn't possible?
TS' behavior has been different, but not so different I'm unwilling to hear what everyone else has to say.
I think he was fairly careful to avoid fishing for role information directly by only asking why hans ended the day, but a) I think we all know/assume that hans can't answer that without revealing the role and b) towntapping has no reason or precedent for being careful.
the triumphant way in which he "refuted" the fishing argument was another nail in the coffin for me. I don't even care if it's true. Because you know how towntapping would have responded? "Yup. I want to know his role because I don't trust him"
Screaming misrep is pretty much his go to for arguments against him, but that specific refutation was way too gleeful for someone who wasn't avoiding doing the thing in the first place.
This post actually made me more convinced. 75% now
Tom, why aren't you considering that perhaps his role might require night or day? For Hans to do something random, that may or may not have had an influence bothers me. I do feel slightly better about you now, but eh. I think we all need to smile a bit more though. This is fun game, is it not?
pone posting to give everyone a heads up that he's town. Just an fyi to head everyone off the focus of a garbage wagon and onto something better.
d v is trolling for reactions. I look forward to him getting into the game and doing something useful. rvs is over.
I most certainly am not attempting to get reactions. It most definitely is not the second day.
In a game about a game, we may have other rules to follow. Then again we may not. But in the that other game, when one obtained victory they created their own rule. So, if it is indeed the second day, then a new rule might already be in place. But, it most definitely is not the second day otherwise, I would be here.
But most definitely those NPCs are playing. Along with others pretending to not play the game.
I'm gonna start with a partial claim. I choose a number at the beginning of each day. My role pm specifically says I don't know what it does.
No idea if this is useful information
You know that anything the Mod posts in red text is true, and that players may not use red text unless an ability says otherwise (it is strongly advised that you heed this warning!). Additionally, you know that questions to the moderator should be phrased in the form of statements using blue text, that blue text can be considered true unless contradicted by red text, and that blue text should not be used for any purposes other than asking the Mod questions unless an ability explicitly says otherwise.
Nothing like kicking off things with Umineko-branded mind-screwiness, isn't there.
Vote: Taredas FoS: Ghosting
By the way, just a general announcement: Previous Mind Screw games (2 and 3) have included the ability Death Note, which allows someone to name a player and a ability name. If they match, then that player dies. If/when we reach claim time, do not claim ability name.
Oh this is good important info. Thank you for that...
Quoting again mainly to highlight the importance of it.
If there isn't a legit interest, I would at least like no more psuedo claiming unless you are a day vig. I will end the day by post 1,000. Without breaking any rules of the forum, I will force you all in a situation. I am a firm believer of LAL, so don't even try.
Perhaps you have reason, but why would you claim to have ended the day? What's your motivation to tell us that it was you?
Day 1 sucks.
No comment on the other stuff.
To be clear you are refusing to tell us why you are claiming credit for ending day one?
VOTE:HANSANATOR
A little hot to trot aren't you? No need to strong arm into revealing things he doesn't need to yet.
And this is what people are talking about when they said it looked like you were fishing for role related info. You do understand why it looks scummy, right?
I thought hans was lying about being the cause of starting on day 2 because this game is screwy and I thought he was being cute and trying to take credit and lie for no reason.
Whether he did or didnt, tom and anak both said that was towny? I could only see this as null andd the spred of towning hans seems off.
I'd like a better explanation from both tom and anak now.
Right, I said it was towny to me. Claiming that he did that would draw a lot of attention to himself, and leave him open to being countered rather easily. This is something that I would think really risky for scum, as they tend to want to sit back more often than town. What is the benefit of him lying that he did it? Not to mention that nobody is countering him, making the likelihood of him lying rather low.
If it was null, it would be something that he would be equally likely to do as scum and town, which I don't believe. Also, I said it was townie, but that doesn't mean I am saying he is 100% town, I just believe it to be a townie action.
But what does it matter if he was scum and claimed it? I think what Hawk is saying is that him taking credit doesn't point to townie or scum either way, hence null. I hear your reasoning, that scum would prefer to hide the info, but really, what does that accomplish for scum!Hans at this point?
@IMAB: I wouldn't consider NPCs as "People not in this game". TBH, I too am curious what they are and how do they interact with this game. Voting for a one is a reasonable action to test that out IMO.
I agree with Tom here, you seem to be fishing hard for role info. If you were hard scum reading me in the MvW game for role speculating, why are you doing the same here? And how can you be certain it's an X-shot ability?
DOTA- I have NOT been role fishing. All my questions have been based on motive. I've been using the all important word WHY. The role fishing word would be HOW.
DOTA and Tom have both purposefully misrepped me here. DOTAs vote attempting to start a wagon.
Where are these role fishing questions you speak of DOTA?
Seems like a pre-planned defense to me. You also HAVE been rolefishing. It isn’t a misrep if it’s in the thread.
an OMGUS vote and still no condescension?! dont just roll over tapping, make it hard on us.
Not even post 100, and you want to show such bravado? Even Cyan isn't that ballsy. Why are you not addressing Hawk's reasonless vote on you,instead of TS's?
I am also advocating making L-4 the new claim range (so, in this case, 7 votes). Number alive + to lynch is redacted. I have a weird feeling even if the NPCs are just there as a mind ****, the number of players may not be the only factor to lynch.
I had that same fear as well. Something screwy could be going on with the lynch threshold.
You forgot a smiley in this one.
@IMAB Was it Jobie's vote of Rod Serling that set you off, or what else tipped you to a serious vote on him?
Because voting people outside of the game is a scumtell.
It proved itself in AVANTE-GARDE mafia. I just didn't push it hard enough and let it go when I shouldn't have.
Though everyone seemed to jump all over this already, I feel obligated to respond:
1) Voting people outside of the game is not a scumtell.
1b) I didn't vote for someone outside of the game, merely a non-player member of the game.
2) Sample size is a helluva drug
3) Though some information can be gleamed from RVS, I think "HEY SERIOUS VOTE HERE GUYS" is more interesting.
I was on the bus when I read through the Tom/Tapping pillow fight. It seemed like hot townie-on-townie action from what I skimmed, but I'll take a closer look later. I think for the time being let's just let them yell at each other until they get tired.
Incredible /barn
Definitely town on town slap fight
Voting outside the game is a crap scumtell
Voting yourself is a pretty good scumtell through my experience, which leads to
Sample size is a helluva drug. Lol
pone posting to give everyone a heads up that he's town. Just an fyi to head everyone off the focus of a garbage wagon and onto something better.
d v is trolling for reactions. I look forward to him getting into the game and doing something useful. rvs is over.
I most certainly am not attempting to get reactions. It most definitely is not the second day.
In a game about a game, we may have other rules to follow. Then again we may not. But in the that other game, when one obtained victory they created their own rule. So, if it is indeed the second day, then a new rule might already be in place. But, it most definitely is not the second day otherwise, I would be here.
But most definitely those NPCs are playing. Along with others pretending to not play the game.
Here we go again with the crazy talk. Okay, I at least started to grasp what you meant about the game within the game stuff.
Who do you think is playing the game by not playing?
Leukovirus? Ghosting? Darth Melvin? Rob Roy? I believe those are the only parties who have not posted… though Leuko did post during pregame
I am not on board with No Lynch this time, GJ. I think we should go with the Nacho Pardon plan. that seems like a good way to go about the day today.
Game based on another game?
What are you talking about?
Do you know why you aren’t on the player list?
This world has certain mechanics in it yes? Based roughly on a card game you might know as Mao.
Either way three strikes and you are out.
As I have said, it most certainly is not the second day and so I am not here.
Here we go again with the crazy talk. Okay, I at least started to grasp what you meant about the game within the game stuff.
Who do you think is playing the game by not playing?
Seppel comes to mind as one such player. But also those pretending to moderate the game are suspicious characters indeed are they not?
Mad isn't it that there would be rules that one has to follow, but they are not certain what those rules are.
unvote, vote: hunt bc i just noticed yr location is new hampshire.
Got a problem with Granite Staters or what?
my only problem with new hampshire is this one summer i stayed there with a bunch of rich jerks summering from massachusetts and good old well water ruining my hair. with so many random votes to drop and not enough history with these players to have one in mind already, i had to find some minuscule detail to motivate a random vote.
Who do you think is playing the game by not playing?
Leukovirus? Ghosting? Darth Melvin? Rob Roy? I believe those are the only parties who have not posted… though Leuko did post during pregame
I am not on board with No Lynch this time, GJ. I think we should go with the Nacho Pardon plan. that seems like a good way to go about the day today.
i was on the fence about whether i wanted a no lynch or what but i like the nacho pardon. it seems educational at the most, and entertaining at the very least.
I agree with Tom here, you seem to be fishing hard for role info. If you were hard scum reading me in the MvW game for role speculating, why are you doing the same here? And how can you be certain it's an X-shot ability?
DOTA- I have NOT been role fishing. All my questions have been based on motive. I've been using the all important word WHY. The role fishing word would be HOW.
DOTA and Tom have both purposefully misrepped me here. DOTAs vote attempting to start a wagon.
Where are these role fishing questions you speak of DOTA?
Seems like a pre-planned defense to me. You also HAVE been rolefishing. It isn’t a misrep if it’s in the thread.
im not feeling it? tapping seems sincere to me, not to mention a little self righteously annoyed at being supposedly misrepped. like, sorry if im being slow here, but what seems so role fishy to you about it in the first place, im not catching what youre catching.
hey D_V, is your content entirely under your control?
i was wondering that too. interrogating the unplayers seems kind of like a waste of time to me bc it feels like theyll just be posting whatever mind screw flavor ***** they have to keep the players on their toes. it seems fun though.
@Hunt-I said WHY did Hans CLAIM credit? There is nothing ****ing related to roles in any of my questions. That is the misrep that is pissing me off. I dont give a flying you know what about his role and Tom knows that.
Nacho, I need you to do something. I believe you and hope we can be friends this game. Unfortunately, there is this voice I consider quite reliable that is telling me your role is a scum role. Tell me Nacho, why would she tell me such a thing?
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
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Tapping Stones is looking more and more scummy. He seems way too defensive compared to the town Tapping I've seen from him.
UNVOTE
VOTE: TappingStones
Im known for being extremely defensive in all my games, and they've all been town. This vote is likely the worse so far. Opportunistic and verifiably false.
@IMAB: Want to share with the rest of us why TS is town?
Because his behavior is town. It's one of those things hard to describe. I see his though process coming from town. I see his frustration at the accusation of "rolefishing" as townie. To be clear it's not the frustration that's townie, it's the way he's displaying that frustration.
Scum rage is still rational and has a logical thought process. Town rage tends to be more visceral and less logical.
BTW, "rolefishing" is in the eye of the beholder which is why T.S. doesn't consider his action rolefishing and other people do. Hence the fuel of his frustration. You all can keep fighting but Tappingstones is town and I'm more likely to scumread the people pushing him about it. This argument is obviously about how people define terms.
If there isn't a legit interest, I would at least like no more psuedo claiming unless you are a day vig. I will end the day by post 1,000. Without breaking any rules of the forum, I will force you all in a situation. I am a firm believer of LAL, so don't even try.
Let's have fun and kill some evil.
I know there was a game that we were both in that you did this. I think you were town. Was it Animal? Do you remember what game that was? (Ah, you answered this already. Cool I did remember correctly.
Quote from GJ »
Speaking of Animal. You saw how well it could have worked. I have no issue analyzing people today, but merely that we shouldn't force a lynch or claims today.
Ok. I'll trust you because of Animal. Who do we lynch then, or rather are you saying that our lynchee today should not claim at L-2? Or are you saying that should be an exception? (Cool you answered this too. No I get what you're saying now. I do agree that L-4 is a good benchmark.)
@Necarg: Do you have magic power to edit your posts?
Since Neg answered, I'll expand on what I was going to say.
I was gonna say that since the Rules this game are apperently hidden from us, it's entirely possible that editing isn't actually against the rules.
But since Neg confirmed that that's role-related, what I was gonna say is now irrelevent.
I am a Governor again, planning on playing it the same way I did in Classic. This is a game of a different nature so I am not confirmed town by ability, however, when j decide to halt a lynch, I can either make the lynched player king for the day (meaning they alone choose the lynch) or publicly reveal their alignment to everyone.
Point me to the game where you were governor before, please?
To be clear you are refusing to tell us why you are claiming credit for ending day one?
VOTE:HANSANATOR
Two questions:
1)Are you a person who used to play here who changed their name at some point?
2) Why is it important that he tell us RIGHT NOw why he told us that he ended day one?
Okay, let's pretend that Hansa is a scum PR that gets to end the day anytime he wants (but doing so causes there to be no night)
If that ability is X-shot, why on earth would spend one for no reason.
If that ability is unlimited shot, how on earth is that balanced?
Though everyone seemed to jump all over this already, I feel obligated to respond:
1) Voting people outside of the game is not a scumtell.
1b) I didn't vote for someone outside of the game, merely a non-player member of the game.
2) Sample size is a helluva drug
3) Though some information can be gleamed from RVS, I think "HEY SERIOUS VOTE HERE GUYS" is more interesting.
I was on the bus when I read through the Tom/Tapping pillow fight. It seemed like hot townie-on-townie action from what I skimmed, but I'll take a closer look later. I think for the time being let's just let them yell at each other until they get tired.
1) I disagree that it's just flatout NOT a scumtell. It can be, but it's reliant on the person doing it.
2)What is Sample Size? Is that something I need to know?
I most certainly am not attempting to get reactions. It most definitely is not the second day.
In a game about a game, we may have other rules to follow. Then again we may not. But in the that other game, when one obtained victory they created their own rule. So, if it is indeed the second day, then a new rule might already be in place. But, it most definitely is not the second day otherwise, I would be here.
But most definitely those NPCs are playing. Along with others pretending to not play the game.
Lol I think DV has a post restriction.
What other game are you refering to? There's a game where you make rules when you win? (Ok you answer this. Never played Mao. Heard of it though. Don't know the rules.)
As I have said, it most certainly is not the second day and so I am not here.
This is interesting. What are you saying will be different in another day, I wonder? Don't tell us what you can do, but I do want to know if it's physically possible for you, given your PR?
Seppel comes to mind as one such player. But also those pretending to moderate the game are suspicious characters indeed are they not?
Mad isn't it that there would be rules that one has to follow, but they are not certain what those rules are.
Wait... are you saying you think Az is lying about being a co-mod? I don't think he is, since he's on the reviewer list, and he didn't get a Foul for posting Pre-Game.
----------------------------------------------------
Non-quote related thoughts:
I think we don't have enough info on Hans' ability to make alignment determination on it, and just making it Day 2 (effectively still D1) isn't alignment indicative. Later in the game when we know more of the setup might allow for eventually making that assessment, perhaps.
Re: Everyone who says Hans did nothing: He probably did things, although we don't know how much he could have affected. Take into consideration the possibility of odd/even night/day roles. He effectively screwed odd people, but accelerated even people. Obviously this could be both town and scum depending on where those roles potentially are. Again, not enough info.
My experience with NPCs is from Procelin Waltz. The Dolls were NPCs and were controlled by a player outside the game. That could be the case here.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Though everyone seemed to jump all over this already, I feel obligated to respond:
1) Voting people outside of the game is not a scumtell.
1b) I didn't vote for someone outside of the game, merely a non-player member of the game.
2) Sample size is a helluva drug
3) Though some information can be gleamed from RVS, I think "HEY SERIOUS VOTE HERE GUYS" is more interesting.
I was on the bus when I read through the Tom/Tapping pillow fight. It seemed like hot townie-on-townie action from what I skimmed, but I'll take a closer look later. I think for the time being let's just let them yell at each other until they get tired.
1) I disagree that it's just flatout NOT a scumtell. It can be, but it's reliant on the person doing it.
2)What is Sample Size? Is that something I need to know?
1) You're right, but it's still an extremely minor tell at best.
2) Sample size meaning the sample size of Imab's "IT HAPPENED IN AVANT GARDE IT MUST BE TRUE" is too small to determine if it's an actual accurate representation. Sample Size usually comes in to play for me when looking at baseball players for Fantasy Baseball and they're knocking the cover off the ball for a week, but they're unable to sustain it over time. Same goes with hockey teams that have a Relative Corsi For % <50%, even if they're winning it shouldn't be sustainable.
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This is interesting. What are you saying will be different in another day, I wonder? Don't tell us what you can do, but I do want to know if it's physically possible for you, given your PR?
My this ones a smart one. It would also be remiss of me to not say that one suspects that others might disappear from the list. While I myself have no such powers, there is reason to believe that others might.
What other game are you refering to? There's a game where you make rules when you win? (Ok you answer this. Never played Mao. Heard of it though. Don't know the rules.)
I once met someone who talked of this game. To my understanding when one wins they make their own rule to the game that needs to be followed, if not one has to draw an additional card. This is quite troublesome you see because, one has to play their whole in out in order to win the game.
One would assume that votes are the currency of trade here, although abilities could definitely also be gained or lost.
Wait... are you saying you think Az is lying about being a co-mod? I don't think he is, since he's on the reviewer list, and he didn't get a Foul for posting Pre-Game.
Ahh, their in lies the problem. Most certainly though one of our so called moderators is playing a role with in the game, but one would suspect it to be both. Perhaps it is a game of chess for those of us that will be here till the end of time to partake in, or perhaps they are mortals that can be killed.
@-Killjoy-To answer your questions
1)Are you a person who used to play here who changed their name at some point? No, I'm relatively new. I've played a handful of games.
2) Why is it important that he tell us RIGHT NOw why he told us that he ended day one? It was the first strange behavior I saw and as such I pursued it. I've become much more interested in the way Tom has made this his white whale though. He's lying about him having some kind of "easy town read" on Hans.
I went back and did PBPA on Tom's completed games with Hans(spoiler alert it's one game Predator Mafia). In that game Hans was killed night one after ten day one posts. His first two posts were "/confirm" and "sup". I didn't find any interaction with Tom from day one (though forgive me Tom spammed the post that game).
Tom has no reasonable path to suggest that Hans is easy for him to read. His history suggests that Tom has never had a chance to read him. Tom then mentions another he read another game that Hans played in.
@Tom-What game? And what posts give him away as easy town read? This seems highly questionable that you've gone back to read a random Hans game and without playing in it have an ironclad town tell on him.
@IABM-Which vote would you say looks the worst on me right now?
I think Tom and Necarg both look like places to start. Tom has dug his feet in to an indefensible position and Necarg jumping on the way he did looks bad.
@tapping im not sure where youre getting an "ironclad town tell" on hans.
i put him at 80% town. sure, that number is made up rather than scientific. but its not that far from the starting point.
ive got bur, gj, and d_v in roughly the same place.
if youd like to know, i read ST:MU3. i love star trek, and GJ's claim in that game was truly a work of art (which is why the game was recommended reading). but again, this isnt really about hans.
Tom calling me scum makes no sense. He immediately tried to defend Hans and said Hans is "easy to read". Tom has no experience with Hans flipping. It is a bizarre thing to say. DOTA is trying to misrep, but I kinda wanba give him more leeway as he was tripping over his own feet in our last game together.
which is a fully terrible post.
id like to paraphrase here: "tom is too dumb to be right about me being scum! dota is also scum but hes so stupid he might be town"
thats a link or quote to almost every post youve made in this game. i left out the ones about NPCs.
i attacked you this way in predator, and i attacked you this way in the classic.
i was acting differently, as im much more experienced/know you better/am being less silly and more logical this game.
but the premise is still the same. i found something that pinged me, picked at it a bit, and waited for you to blow up to reveal the truth.
what i saw in those other two games was genuine anger. you threatened to replace out, you asked for me to be replaced, you BLEW THE **** UP. and both times, i started townreading you for those blowups.
i died Day 2 in both of those games, and managed to attack you and use your reactions to put you as solidly town.
what im seeing now is a pale imitation. youre saying the right words, but you were in those games too. this is fake anger.
its much harder to stoke that flame of rage when im totally ******* right.
so yeah, this is why tapping is scum. seriously people, im so sure of this that i almost think its a waste to run him up on the first (second?) Day when i still so badly want nacho to prove his claim.
if i was more sure of nacho, id suggest just running me up so i can get town confirmed and we can just lynch tapping tomorrow.
thats probably a bad plan anyway though because night kill. i might actually be a viable target for scum if i were confirmed town AND just nailed the ***** out of one of them.
if anyone want to compare for themselves, i suggest looking a little before for context and reading a little after for the blowups.
or just sheep me and we can win. up to you.
@tapping im not sure where youre getting an "ironclad town tell" on hans. Because you said Hans is easy to read. Already getting hard to remember all the lies, isn't it Tom?
i put him at 80% town. sure, that number is made up rather than scientific. but its not that far from the starting point.
ive got bur, gj, and d_v in roughly the same place. I don't care where you have those folks right now as you are giving a scum vibe
if youd like to know, i read ST:MU3. i love star trek, and GJ's claim in that game was truly a work of art (which is why the game was recommended reading). but again, this isnt really about hans. Nice try avoiding the question. I said to share with us this easy town read/tell you have on Hans. I'm not letting you off the hook on this one Tom. You bit off more than you could chew because you like to quick post without thinking. Give us specific posts from that game that show you can distinctly link this game's behavior to that game's behavior. Otherwise you'll have to fess up to BSing us.
Perhaps you have reason, but why would you claim to have ended the day? What's your motivation to tell us that it was you?
to which the incredibly easy/obvious answer, whether hans bothered to say it or not, is "because i had information to share with my homies so i did" This is laughable. What information did he share with us Tom? That he ended the day. The obvious question would first be "Why did Hans end the day? What is the town motivation? You still have failed to provide any town motivation. Why wouldn't scum claim they ended the day so they could get instant "Tom cred".
that inability to see the obvious townsplanation is a huge red flag that you werent coming at this from a town mindset. The red flag is that you still have FAILED to provide a town explanation for this. I'm still waiting for it and will continue to ask for it until you give one.
Tom calling me scum makes no sense. He immediately tried to defend Hans and said Hans is "easy to read". Tom has no experience with Hans flipping. It is a bizarre thing to say. DOTA is trying to misrep, but I kinda wanba give him more leeway as he was tripping over his own feet in our last game together.
which is a fully terrible post.
id like to paraphrase here: "tom is too dumb to be right about me being scum! dota is also scum but hes so stupid he might be town" Now you are trying to spin this away from you, perhaps trying to lead DOTA to jump in on your defense? Otherwise what is the reason for this statement? Certainly no town motivation here.
thats a link or quote to almost every post youve made in this game. i left out the ones about NPCs.
i attacked you this way in predator, and i attacked you this way in the classic.
i was acting differently, as im much more experienced/know you better/am being less silly and more logical this game.
but the premise is still the same. i found something that pinged me, picked at it a bit, and waited for you to blow up to reveal the truth.
what i saw in those other two games was genuine anger. you threatened to replace out, you asked for me to be replaced, you BLEW THE **** UP. and both times, i started townreading you for those blowups.
i died Day 2 in both of those games, and managed to attack you and use your reactions to put you as solidly town.
I've played with you in 3+ games now. In ALL games you have gone after me hard from the very beginning(first 1-2 days as scum). In all games I was town.
what im seeing now is a pale imitation. youre saying the right words, but you were in those games too. this is fake anger.
its much harder to stoke that flame of rage when im totally ******* right. There is no rule that I have to get super pissed to be town Tom. The fact that you are reaching this far shows how little you really have to go on. I'm shown quite a bit of frustration with this fake wagon already. I don't have to do it in a way that pleases you. In some games I wont show anger at all, depends if you are alive or not most-likely.
so yeah, this is why tapping is scum. seriously people, im so sure of this that i almost think its a waste to run him up on the first (second?) Day when i still so badly want nacho to prove his claim.
if i was more sure of nacho, id suggest just running me up so i can get town confirmed and we can just lynch tapping tomorrow.
thats probably a bad plan anyway though because night kill. i might actually be a viable target for scum if i were confirmed town AND just nailed the ***** out of one of them.
This last part is pretty terrible. You want to suggest running yourself up for day one? That makes no sense, total bluff. If you truly believe this then put your vote on yourself and I will assuredly get you your wish scum.
Great! If Hans is crazy easy to read as town and you're pulling this information from your experience with Hans flips please present the examples that connect his actions this game to his town flips in other games you participated with him in.
@Hans-Feel free to chime in anytime you like. What is the town motivation to claim there? I've asked this question so many times and no one can seem to provide any reasonable town motivation for Hans to claim there as town.
@All-What is the town motivation for Tom to call Hans town so quickly and so assuredly? Hawk was the first to notice this and I think he is right on. Tom is now trying to do backflips(unsuccessfully) to dig himself out.
@TomCome on old sport got anything left from pregame scum chat?
@TS: I think Tom's town. I'm not sure what to think of DoTA's jump on your wagon nor what to make of your reaction to accusation of rolefishing.
(Also, I'm the player with 4th highest post count in this game. WTF!?)
Bur, you might have a high vote count, but you are coming off as echoing me pretty hard. I want some original thought.
What town vibes are you getting from Tom? I am not even super sure Tapping is town, but what I am getting is that the two votes I saw are pretty terrible.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
second he was in my first game and in another past game i read. and hes been an open book every time.
third, and most importantly, are you asserting he isnt easy to read? because im pretty sure thats the claim that needs justified
as for hawk, i dont really care. his vote seemed rvs or rvs adjacent. but even if serious, like, whatever. id rather lynch scum than defend myself against an unknown.
and yeah, im not as confident as im letting on.
im maybe 80% sure hans is town and 67% sure tapping is scum.
but **** if im not gonna be confident and forceful if im not gonna be silly.
though i will say im more confident in my read of TS now than when i started
@GJ are you now simultaneously advocating a no lynch to give away less information and lowering the threshold for claims? those dont match bro.
I am suggesting caution. If you read my post before, you would know that I was suggesting we use Nacho to move forward with a no lynch, essentially as a public day cop shot instead of a lynch. I get what I want, Nacho gets confirmed, as does his target.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
and if it helps with my percentages, everyone starts at about 70% town since thats the approximate ratio. so hans hasnt really gone up that much.
I think Tom is town since his posts seem sincere, he's making good points about Hansa (Why would scum!Hansa claim something like that?) and that I don't like TS much.
What do you think of Tom?
How is voting someone outside of the game something that scum are more likely to do than town? Especially in a game where the mechanics are all over the place, why would town not want to learn as much as they can about what is or isn't possible?
d v is trolling for reactions. I look forward to him getting into the game and doing something useful. rvs is over.
Don't know yet. Don't like him so far, where as other games he has pinged more null.:)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
TS' behavior has been different, but not so different I'm unwilling to hear what everyone else has to say.
I think he was fairly careful to avoid fishing for role information directly by only asking why hans ended the day, but a) I think we all know/assume that hans can't answer that without revealing the role and b) towntapping has no reason or precedent for being careful.
the triumphant way in which he "refuted" the fishing argument was another nail in the coffin for me. I don't even care if it's true. Because you know how towntapping would have responded? "Yup. I want to know his role because I don't trust him"
Screaming misrep is pretty much his go to for arguments against him, but that specific refutation was way too gleeful for someone who wasn't avoiding doing the thing in the first place.
This post actually made me more convinced. 75% now
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I most certainly am not attempting to get reactions. It most definitely is not the second day.
In a game about a game, we may have other rules to follow. Then again we may not. But in the that other game, when one obtained victory they created their own rule. So, if it is indeed the second day, then a new rule might already be in place. But, it most definitely is not the second day otherwise, I would be here.
But most definitely those NPCs are playing. Along with others pretending to not play the game.
Got a problem with Granite Staters or what?
I missed you too KJ.
This from the guy who hates claims... What gives?
Oh this is good important info. Thank you for that...
Quoting again mainly to highlight the importance of it.
No idea but I would love to have an answer to this too
A little hot to trot aren't you? No need to strong arm into revealing things he doesn't need to yet.
And this is what people are talking about when they said it looked like you were fishing for role related info. You do understand why it looks scummy, right?
But what does it matter if he was scum and claimed it? I think what Hawk is saying is that him taking credit doesn't point to townie or scum either way, hence null. I hear your reasoning, that scum would prefer to hide the info, but really, what does that accomplish for scum!Hans at this point?
I agree with you on this Bur.
Seems like a pre-planned defense to me. You also HAVE been rolefishing. It isn’t a misrep if it’s in the thread.
Slow down there. You can’t be exclaiming ***** like this before post 100.
Game based on another game?
What are you talking about?
Do you know why you aren’t on the player list?
I had that same fear as well. Something screwy could be going on with the lynch threshold.
You forgot a smiley in this one.
Incredible /barn
Definitely town on town slap fight
Voting outside the game is a crap scumtell
Voting yourself is a pretty good scumtell through my experience, which leads to
Sample size is a helluva drug. Lol
Here we go again with the crazy talk. Okay, I at least started to grasp what you meant about the game within the game stuff.
Who do you think is playing the game by not playing?
Leukovirus? Ghosting? Darth Melvin? Rob Roy? I believe those are the only parties who have not posted… though Leuko did post during pregame
I am not on board with No Lynch this time, GJ. I think we should go with the Nacho Pardon plan. that seems like a good way to go about the day today.
This world has certain mechanics in it yes? Based roughly on a card game you might know as Mao.
Either way three strikes and you are out.
As I have said, it most certainly is not the second day and so I am not here.
Seppel comes to mind as one such player. But also those pretending to moderate the game are suspicious characters indeed are they not?
Mad isn't it that there would be rules that one has to follow, but they are not certain what those rules are.
Claims it's not second day...doesn't interrogete Hans. Maybe you should have stuck with lurking. I'm no longer suspicious of Jobie but I am of D V
I see other people's questions and ill address them when I have more time.
my only problem with new hampshire is this one summer i stayed there with a bunch of rich jerks summering from massachusetts and good old well water ruining my hair. with so many random votes to drop and not enough history with these players to have one in mind already, i had to find some minuscule detail to motivate a random vote.
i was on the fence about whether i wanted a no lynch or what but i like the nacho pardon. it seems educational at the most, and entertaining at the very least.
im not feeling it? tapping seems sincere to me, not to mention a little self righteously annoyed at being supposedly misrepped. like, sorry if im being slow here, but what seems so role fishy to you about it in the first place, im not catching what youre catching.
Why would I interrogate someone who made false statements? The game might appear to be the second day, but it most certainly is not.
I find it odd that anyone would be accused of lurking in a game that just started. This is a most interesting development.
i was wondering that too. interrogating the unplayers seems kind of like a waste of time to me bc it feels like theyll just be posting whatever mind screw flavor ***** they have to keep the players on their toes. it seems fun though.
Perhaps, if one has to follow certain rules and chooses to follow those rules are they choosing their own destiny or is it picked for them?
next ill be very interested in imabs thing and whatever tapping has to say (specifically in response to hunt. good job so far hunt. keep it up.)
I see that you are an enemy of ponies, sir. Tell me, what devilish incentives has the vile Taredas offered you, in return for this treachery?
One was offered nothing. One simply assumes that said characters are not friendly.
Nacho, I need you to do something. I believe you and hope we can be friends this game. Unfortunately, there is this voice I consider quite reliable that is telling me your role is a scum role. Tell me Nacho, why would she tell me such a thing?
Let's be honest with each other, shall we?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well that's a bald-faced lie.
DV, we are men of action. Lies do not become us.
In other news, rodents of unusual size? I doubt they exist.
i beg to differ.
Quit the lies Tom.
UNVOTE
VOTE: TappingStones
Five days since you laughed at me
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True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Im known for being extremely defensive in all my games, and they've all been town. This vote is likely the worse so far. Opportunistic and verifiably false.
Which games are you referring to Necarg?
Because his behavior is town. It's one of those things hard to describe. I see his though process coming from town. I see his frustration at the accusation of "rolefishing" as townie. To be clear it's not the frustration that's townie, it's the way he's displaying that frustration.
Scum rage is still rational and has a logical thought process. Town rage tends to be more visceral and less logical.
BTW, "rolefishing" is in the eye of the beholder which is why T.S. doesn't consider his action rolefishing and other people do. Hence the fuel of his frustration. You all can keep fighting but Tappingstones is town and I'm more likely to scumread the people pushing him about it. This argument is obviously about how people define terms.
Ahh, well its hard to keep these things straight when dealing with a pretender now isn't it?
Then again it might be interesting to see what sort of surprises one like you has in store for us.
To be called a rodent, my I can't imagine something more offensive.
I know there was a game that we were both in that you did this. I think you were town. Was it Animal? Do you remember what game that was? (Ah, you answered this already. Cool I did remember correctly. Ok. I'll trust you because of Animal. Who do we lynch then, or rather are you saying that our lynchee today should not claim at L-2? Or are you saying that should be an exception? (Cool you answered this too. No I get what you're saying now. I do agree that L-4 is a good benchmark.)
Since Neg answered, I'll expand on what I was going to say.
I was gonna say that since the Rules this game are apperently hidden from us, it's entirely possible that editing isn't actually against the rules.
But since Neg confirmed that that's role-related, what I was gonna say is now irrelevent.
Haters gon' hate. Don't be mad cuz you're everyone's third favorite Secretary.
Point me to the game where you were governor before, please?
Two questions:
1)Are you a person who used to play here who changed their name at some point?
2) Why is it important that he tell us RIGHT NOw why he told us that he ended day one?
Ok. Why Jobie over Proph? (NVM you already answered this.
Wait, are you saying you don't believe him?
You noticed this. Good.
1) I disagree that it's just flatout NOT a scumtell. It can be, but it's reliant on the person doing it.
2)What is Sample Size? Is that something I need to know?
Lol I think DV has a post restriction.
What other game are you refering to? There's a game where you make rules when you win? (Ok you answer this. Never played Mao. Heard of it though. Don't know the rules.)
This is interesting. What are you saying will be different in another day, I wonder? Don't tell us what you can do, but I do want to know if it's physically possible for you, given your PR?
Wait... are you saying you think Az is lying about being a co-mod? I don't think he is, since he's on the reviewer list, and he didn't get a Foul for posting Pre-Game.
----------------------------------------------------
Non-quote related thoughts:
I think we don't have enough info on Hans' ability to make alignment determination on it, and just making it Day 2 (effectively still D1) isn't alignment indicative. Later in the game when we know more of the setup might allow for eventually making that assessment, perhaps.
Re: Everyone who says Hans did nothing: He probably did things, although we don't know how much he could have affected. Take into consideration the possibility of odd/even night/day roles. He effectively screwed odd people, but accelerated even people. Obviously this could be both town and scum depending on where those roles potentially are. Again, not enough info.
My experience with NPCs is from Procelin Waltz. The Dolls were NPCs and were controlled by a player outside the game. That could be the case here.
Cool I'm caught up. Sweet.
2) Sample size meaning the sample size of Imab's "IT HAPPENED IN AVANT GARDE IT MUST BE TRUE" is too small to determine if it's an actual accurate representation. Sample Size usually comes in to play for me when looking at baseball players for Fantasy Baseball and they're knocking the cover off the ball for a week, but they're unable to sustain it over time. Same goes with hockey teams that have a Relative Corsi For % <50%, even if they're winning it shouldn't be sustainable.
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My this ones a smart one. It would also be remiss of me to not say that one suspects that others might disappear from the list. While I myself have no such powers, there is reason to believe that others might.
I once met someone who talked of this game. To my understanding when one wins they make their own rule to the game that needs to be followed, if not one has to draw an additional card. This is quite troublesome you see because, one has to play their whole in out in order to win the game.
One would assume that votes are the currency of trade here, although abilities could definitely also be gained or lost.
Ahh, their in lies the problem. Most certainly though one of our so called moderators is playing a role with in the game, but one would suspect it to be both. Perhaps it is a game of chess for those of us that will be here till the end of time to partake in, or perhaps they are mortals that can be killed.
1)Are you a person who used to play here who changed their name at some point? No, I'm relatively new. I've played a handful of games.
2) Why is it important that he tell us RIGHT NOw why he told us that he ended day one? It was the first strange behavior I saw and as such I pursued it. I've become much more interested in the way Tom has made this his white whale though. He's lying about him having some kind of "easy town read" on Hans.
I went back and did PBPA on Tom's completed games with Hans(spoiler alert it's one game Predator Mafia). In that game Hans was killed night one after ten day one posts. His first two posts were "/confirm" and "sup". I didn't find any interaction with Tom from day one (though forgive me Tom spammed the post that game).
Tom has no reasonable path to suggest that Hans is easy for him to read. His history suggests that Tom has never had a chance to read him. Tom then mentions another he read another game that Hans played in.
@Tom-What game? And what posts give him away as easy town read? This seems highly questionable that you've gone back to read a random Hans game and without playing in it have an ironclad town tell on him.
I think Tom and Necarg both look like places to start. Tom has dug his feet in to an indefensible position and Necarg jumping on the way he did looks bad.
@imab: I'm voting Taredas to confirm a couple of theories I have in my head. On that note:
Summon: Iso
Mind Screw Mafia 1
Mind Screw Mafia 2
Mind Screw Mafia 3
Mind Screw Mafia 4
Mind Screw Mafia 5
Hey Proph,
Any experience with NPCs in a Mafia game. Did you play in any of those other Mind Screw Mafia games, if so can you recommend one for a read?
i put him at 80% town. sure, that number is made up rather than scientific. but its not that far from the starting point.
ive got bur, gj, and d_v in roughly the same place.
if youd like to know, i read ST:MU3. i love star trek, and GJ's claim in that game was truly a work of art (which is why the game was recommended reading). but again, this isnt really about hans.
now i get to explain my "indefensible position"
right out of the gate you asked hans a series of questions. ill concede to you that starting on Day 2 is odd, so we dont have to worry about that part.
the very first question you asked was How did it benefit us to end the day?. it should be obvious to everyone he cant answer that without revealing his role. you realize that, right?
you then ask me what i think of it, speculate on the role a little and throw in that it doesnt mean hes scum (duh), disparage hans' play a little.
then youve got this gem: to which the incredibly easy/obvious answer, whether hans bothered to say it or not, is "because i had information to share with my homies so i did"
that inability to see the obvious townsplanation is a huge red flag that you werent coming at this from a town mindset.
next, you doubled down on that *****ty attack and voted, tripled down, and quadrupled down
then you started claiming you werent fishing, threw some shade at hans, and attacked me instead of my arguments (which, to be fair, is not a scumtell for you. thats just a thing you do), started screaming "misrep" at the top of your lungs, discounted dota instead of answering his question, talked about an ongoing game/voted for your attacker (me), questioned my ability to townread hans, which has fairly little to do with anything, and then this: which is a fully terrible post.
id like to paraphrase here: "tom is too dumb to be right about me being scum! dota is also scum but hes so stupid he might be town"
next its tom cant read hans, more screaming MISREP, jump on another random thought about me (you know, cuz i caught you), more whining about being misrepped, called me a liar, handed a scum read to necarg for agreeing about you, then 2 straight posts about the people who think youre scum must be scum.
thats a link or quote to almost every post youve made in this game. i left out the ones about NPCs.
i attacked you this way in predator, and i attacked you this way in the classic.
i was acting differently, as im much more experienced/know you better/am being less silly and more logical this game.
but the premise is still the same. i found something that pinged me, picked at it a bit, and waited for you to blow up to reveal the truth.
what i saw in those other two games was genuine anger. you threatened to replace out, you asked for me to be replaced, you BLEW THE **** UP. and both times, i started townreading you for those blowups.
i died Day 2 in both of those games, and managed to attack you and use your reactions to put you as solidly town.
what im seeing now is a pale imitation. youre saying the right words, but you were in those games too. this is fake anger.
its much harder to stoke that flame of rage when im totally ******* right.
so yeah, this is why tapping is scum. seriously people, im so sure of this that i almost think its a waste to run him up on the first (second?) Day when i still so badly want nacho to prove his claim.
if i was more sure of nacho, id suggest just running me up so i can get town confirmed and we can just lynch tapping tomorrow.
thats probably a bad plan anyway though because night kill. i might actually be a viable target for scum if i were confirmed town AND just nailed the ***** out of one of them.
here in predator and here in the classic.
if anyone want to compare for themselves, i suggest looking a little before for context and reading a little after for the blowups.
or just sheep me and we can win. up to you.
gonna play some modo and go to sleep. Tom Out.
My responses in bold
This last part is pretty terrible. You want to suggest running yourself up for day one? That makes no sense, total bluff. If you truly believe this then put your vote on yourself and I will assuredly get you your wish scum.
Great! If Hans is crazy easy to read as town and you're pulling this information from your experience with Hans flips please present the examples that connect his actions this game to his town flips in other games you participated with him in.
@Hans-Feel free to chime in anytime you like. What is the town motivation to claim there? I've asked this question so many times and no one can seem to provide any reasonable town motivation for Hans to claim there as town.
@All-What is the town motivation for Tom to call Hans town so quickly and so assuredly? Hawk was the first to notice this and I think he is right on. Tom is now trying to do backflips(unsuccessfully) to dig himself out.
@TomCome on old sport got anything left from pregame scum chat?
V/LA until Friday