Sorry guys, it looks like I won't be able to focus on the game for a while due to real life circumstances.
(Mainly due to the half a dozen problems that popped up with the new apartment).
V/LA till Sunday 13th.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
holy crap i seem to be universally townread. i hope i can replicate this game next time im scum.
still compiling all the t/s lists.
@ghosting im gonna want explanations eventually, but not while youre in class obviously.
my initial thoughts upon a reskim are that i dont want to lynch bur or necarg, though id be down to reveal either.
hawk i have a very particular question for when he comes back. he seems to be a top scumread of several of my townreads and id like to figure him out, and this question should help me do that.
Jobie - actual business versus irritation of rolling non-town YET AGAIN
or
Hawk - Having a weird role that actually existed in previous Mind Screws and shares "rules that may or may not exist"
I think I might be more inclined to join you on Jobie than Hawk right now.
I did not realize that Necarg was editing that old post constantly. Thanks Tom for pointing that out more clearly for me.
I ISO'd Necarg, and looking at it with fresh eyes, I could see him just trolling his pretty cool role and avoiding day one (well, functionally one) as long as he can since he hates it so much as non-alignment indicative.
@IABM What part of that action do you support exactly? You had just called him confirmed town, how does TS's claim of being neutral affect your thoughts on the strikes and such from Taredas? Also, no way does that confirm Bur as scum, as tom already stated.
@IABM What part of that action do you support exactly? You had just called him confirmed town, how does TS's claim of being neutral affect your thoughts on the strikes and such from Taredas? Also, no way does that confirm Bur as scum, as tom already stated.
How was that calling anyone scum?
All you did was say his case versus you was bad and not even well. You didn't write a single convincing argument. But regardless you didn't say he was scum just that he backed a bad case and that made him scum?
alright man.
not gonna lie, its really hard to read this post.
but once i get through it, i see that your case is "isnt reading the game"
which:
a) i dont really think applies to anak
b) isnt necessarily a scum tell
c) is a trait that i would most readily apply to tappingstones, who was your top townread at the time iirc
so if your case is more than that, please make it again without the DV rant.
and if not, please address b and c
So, I'm breaking this up into a couple posts to keep things straight. Stuff to me, then stuff I have comments about, then response to Nacho. Then MAYBE the post breaking down DV's info he has that he's been giving us.
First, a question for Nacho since his post won't be up for a while: Nacho: Can you point me to a couple of your town games, and a couple of your scum games? I wanna check something.
Skirting rules that were made to be gamed is quite maddening. Playing a little more fast and loose. Got tired of people purposefully misunderstanding my words and I wanted it to be clear what I was thinking. I also believe that I may have been slightly too literal with my interpretation after a small conversation with the moderator.
So, are you gonna get in trouble because you're playing it so fast and loose then? Are you still adhering to your PR?
I still have NO idea what your PR actually is. Yout still just talk funny. Although less so now.
I may not be able to participate in the lynch today though we will see. One believes though that they have followed the right path either way. Regardless on day one I doubt that will have too large of an affect on the game.[/quote] In the most recent votecount you're voting Tapping. So, you can vote. Is that what you meant by "might not be able to participate in the lynch"?
With that all being said, I wanted to further spread some more information into the game.
I do not believe that Azreal is friendly, but also not evil.
With him knowing roles, I posit that since things were changed on him and he admits so, that his job is to Aquire the Minds and Souls of specific targets in the game. If we were to mass claim I wouldn't be surprised if we saw many characters from the same "Universe of being", and that is who he is hunting.
I agree that Az is likely pure neutral. Not scum-aligned but also self serving. He's said as much. And we can't vote him, so not much point dealing with him today unless he somehow becomes voteable AND we figure out he's anti-town or something.
Additionally Taredas is definitely playing the game. To what end I am not certain, but after reading other mindscrews I believe him to be a player in the game itself on another account. I find this a little maddening though, because the one that I suspected was leukovirus, but he is in another game... so. Perhaps they are like me and not on the player list yet. I truly wonder about my Iso vote as well, and what that vote count meant.
I doubt leuko is Tar. I recall him being in Saw, and I doubt Tar (being that he doesn't have a lot of time to begin with) joins another game knowing he might not be able to participate.
Had to look ISO up as well. Isn't that strictly worse than a PBPA? Is it just to save time?
Short answer is yes. It doesn't require you to react specifically to EVERY post, but more to read though all their posts, get a feel for them. Maybe find some posts that exemplify your position and quote those.
I was referring to TS vs Tom mainly, but there were a few other feuds flaring up at the time, like Imab adding himself to the TS and Tom mix, and DV also going against TS.
Oh, you mean feud. Dichotomy means two things are mutually exclusive. Two claims that cannot exist together in a game, for instance. Like if a few people claimed to be the voice in GJ's head. GJ's only claimed one voice, so all but one must therefore be a lie.
@hawk, anak, dota, gj, hans, jobie, kj, leuk, necarg, robroy: i would love a list like this from you guys.
especially kj and robroy, as you both seem to have strong opinions but just havent put them together.
Notes: Tapping upgraded after claim. I believe it. The way he made it seems genuine. Hunt was null, moved to LS for my point on his read on Hawk. Some of IABM's posts just rub me the wrong way. Bur is barely leaning scum for his response to my questions, so I made him a new category.
I think I've discussed everything else.
Colors wouldn't work, so I just did it this way.
Also, Thank you for showing me that boxes are a thing. I love them.
I'd rather not lynch Necarg or 7Hawk77. If we have to lynch someone then we should lynch Bur. Look at this reads list. There's no progression of these reads. Earlier several people mentioned that Bur asks questions without following up on it. That's what this reads list is. The fact that it's a copy/paste just highlights how little thought was put into this.
I still don't see the case on Necarg. I'm not seeing anything distinctly scummy from him.
I could stand to lynch Bur if we have no better options. Would rather lynch a stronger scumread.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Just so I'm clear, is everyone off the whole "Let's test Nacho's ability plan?"
That had a pretty full head of steam not long ago.
I'm still for it, but Rob makes a good point that him picking the target and then justifying it will tell us more about his alignment than us picking for him. Unless we can lynch him, that is. Then we can do that.
i know that applied extremely well to that game, but it must apply here somewhat too.
I don't think Ghosting's performance in Saw is comperable to here, if that's what you're saying. That quote you have literally says "I had been tempted to post, but coasting in the back seemed like the best choice". He's not doing that to such an extent, and also coasting in this game is likely not the best answer since so many people seem to be for lynching lurkers today instead of anyone else.
I mean... is anyone still scumreading tom? Is anyone still not townreading tom? Scum don't say this, especially not as a reaction to the post it's referring to.
Nacho, this day has gone on long enough, and as it starts to drift, the more people are going to stop caring about this game. We can't have that happen.
FTR, Nacho, this is part of why I was discouraging people conversing on the setup. I've seen enough towns get distracted with setup spec and drift into apathy.
Hawk – Trusting my town blocks reads here. I could get behind his lynch today.
I dislike this. Kind of a psudo-buddying with his town block, plus a little bit of the "for reasons stated" scumtell. I'm obviousy assuming he's reading Hawk as scum either because his town block is also scumreading them (which is bad) or scumreading him for the reasons his town block is (which as I said is a scumtell).
leukovirus
Registered User
Member for 2 months and 3 days Last active 12 hours ago
Jobie
Registered User
Member for 11 years, 1 month, and 30 days Last active 3 minutes ago
7hawk77
Registered User
Member for 5 years, 9 months, and 25 days Last active 4 days ago
Necarg
Registered User
Member for 1 year, 6 months, and 22 days Last active 7 hours ago
7Hawk should not be a scumread. He's legit afk. Meanwhile I don't know what the hell Leukovirus and Necarg are doing, although it could be that Necarg is giving "thanks" and edits but I haven't looked yet. The real WTF is Jobie.
This isn't a thing. During my v/LA just now, I've logged in every day and read the thread. I haven't had time to post, but I've been reading so that I when I do have time to post, the whole of the thread isn't full of new posts. Then I can remember the thoughts I've had possibly, so it doesn't take as long.
Jobie - actual business versus irritation of rolling non-town YET AGAIN
or
Hawk - Having a weird role that actually existed in previous Mind Screws and shares "rules that may or may not exist"
I think I might be more inclined to join you on Jobie than Hawk right now.
I did not realize that Necarg was editing that old post constantly. Thanks Tom for pointing that out more clearly for me.
I ISO'd Necarg, and looking at it with fresh eyes, I could see him just trolling his pretty cool role and avoiding day one (well, functionally one) as long as he can since he hates it so much as non-alignment indicative.
Hey Hunt... who do YOU want to lynch? Not out of whatever lurkers people come up with... who is your preference? Actually did you post a T/S list? Actually, I remember you doing that.
Why is it that you'd rather lynch Jobie over Hawk when "I know the feeling of being newly married. It has been most of the reason I have been less active over the last 6 months." while your Hawk read is based on your town blocks reads (and therefore maybe more reliable in your eyes?)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
alright. im not going to bed quite yet, but once i do v/la for the weekend
ive got a "business trip" and im turning 30. im going to assume little time for mafia. maybe some phoneposting.
@kj boxes for life
@dv is your inside information part of your role pm or from some other communication?
im also going to put my question for hawk out there in case he shows up while im away.
quoting his most recent post (which was, btw, a full week ago) for the extra notification
hawk do you have a passive ability you chose not to claim?
before you answer, think about why i am asking this question and remember when i said your claim had overlap with my role.
Let me know if there's anyone I didn't mention that you want a specific comment on.
id love to hear your thoughts on DV and imab
D_V has been abrasive and antagonistic, but feeling that he crossed the line into unacceptable behaviour doesn't make him scum. If my memory of D_V from years ago can be trusted, this is not out of character for him. I haven't gone back to see if a meta argument could be made, but for now I haven't seen anything that would make me think he is scum.
imab has also been aggressive, but consistent in his posted views, as far as I can tell. I've disagreed with a number of his conclusions, but again don't have any reason to believe him scum at this time.
For the record, feeling slightly townier on D_V than imab.
Why do you think TS's inconsistencies that you pointed out demonstrate a scum mindset? Why did he lie/dodge/ignore as scum?
Given Tapping's replacing out, I'm not going to go into too much detail about this. I think I answered this, though in my post 838 - let me know if you want me to amplify anything there.
The first is that Tapping never said that he changed his mind after my mod reveal confirmation post; he said that he's been thinking about what to do since that post (which mostly checks out).
The second is that Tapping wasn't as all-in to the Nacho govern plan as you thought he was as of 606, and the quoted post is more him throwing out ideas than him committing to a plan.
The evidence for this has two parts:
1) When TappingStones was the most invested in the reveal plan (when he was asking people for lists of who to reveal and still assuming that's what we were doing), he was voting Necarg. When he was voting Necarg, it was very clearly a vote to reveal (because he stated as much a couple of times). When TS voted Tom later in the day, I don't think it was a vote that followed his previous plan (aka pick someone who wasn't a strong townread or scumread to reveal).
2) Second part actually comes in 606 itself: TS said that he wanted to see a pardon OR lynch, which is a far cry from him assuming that it was 100% going to be a reveal earlier in the game.
The importance in this distinction is that I see TS's position on me revealing and how to have me reveal a player as being far more back and forth and complicated than you do: your argument is that he supported me revealing and then he didn't; I see that he thought that me revealing was optimal play and going to happen because it seemed to be general consensus, I see him trying to figure out the best way to use his power, I see him getting distracted from that thought and instead just wanting to lynch Tom, I see him coming back to considering using my power for a reveal, and then I see him STILL CONSIDERING but understanding that it definitely should be used if something mindscrewed goes on with the lynches.
I'll grant you that 2) is a minor point in your favour, but am less swayed by 1). If this was the case, though, then I really do wish that TS would have clarified that when I began asking him about it, instead of just counterattacking.
second, those strikes and fouls are for breaking the (hidden) game rules. tare is mod of this game, but not of this forum.
warning someone for flaming/trolling/whatever isnt his job. giving strikes for posting in pregame or putting another player on ignore is.
True, although it does make me wonder where the actual forum admins are. That also goes into...
This game is not being moderated in a fair way. DV has been asked by 4 players to stop flaming. But instead IABM and I are asked to be courteous. DVs last comment was "you must hate your life". Tge mods have decided to take sides and not let us pkay a fair game of Mafia.
Based in that I am subbing out of this game and bringing this issue up to whatever council members are objective enough to listen. It is absolutely unfair that mods are calling out some players but not othets in thread by name. If this is a game. I am very disappoibted at the special treatment DV has been given this game.
I believe that the reason why D_V was not given a public foul or strike is because, at this time, he is not a public player in the game. I'd be willing to bet that, if D_V were on the player list, he'd have been called out like the other specifically named players were. Hopefully Taredas made that point in private.
I might as well claim. I am a town aligned neutral. My flavor is from the movie memento.
I wont be posting again in thread.
Town-aligned neutral is an interesting statement. It would have to mean that his win condition supports the town in some way without exactly matching, so that there are at least theoretical scenarios where the role would win but the town would lose - otherwise he'd be townie, with some additional restrictions. I'm interested to see where his replacement goes with this.
Also, unvote for now. I'd want to send that over to Hawk, but it won't make a difference until he returns.
I could believe TS being town aligned neutral, if for no other reason, he is far more defensive than I would think an actual neutral would be in that situation.
Johnny, can you please elaborate on this? What do you believe a town-aligned neutral's win condition would look like, and why would such a player be more defensive than a non-town-aligned neutral?
Sorry guys, it looks like I won't be able to focus on the game for a while due to real life circumstances.
(Mainly due to the half a dozen problems that popped up with the new apartment).
Ah, the mod let you set up a contingency? Excellent.
The mod let him? What do you mean?
People seem to have standardized on voting the player above the one they actually want the vote on. For example, if I wanted to vote you, I'd actually toss a vote onto imabusinessman. However, this raises the chance that, should we want to lynch you, it'll actually be imab who dies, if the display is wrong but those votes are actually really on imab.
Nacho can use his ability to save a person in this case - if we try to lynch you but actually get imab. However, this would normally require him to be online at the time between when the mod posts the final votecount and the time that the lynch scene is posted. If the mod is instead allowing him to set conditions in advance for the govern, then it gets a lot easier to handle.
Wait... you were told? That wasn't just a theory you had?
Correct!
One two three not it!
More seriously, though no more relevant to the game: if this is true, then it makes me even more sad that the mod is running this game while apparently not having enough time to devote to it. The fact that we haven't had a content post for literally a week from literally a third of the living players, and the mod can't be in overdrive trying to correct this, is extremely unfortunate.
Johnny, can you please elaborate on this? What do you believe a town-aligned neutral's win condition would look like, and why would such a player be more defensive than a non-town-aligned neutral?
Gladly
Since neutrals don't have a team, and tend to lose upon death, it makes more sense to me that someone neutral aligned would be more aggressive towards other players, especially if that person feels like they are being misinterpreted or outright misrepresented. In Chimes as the sk, I felt the exact same way towards Kosa, and while mileage may vary, TS can be a more.....vocal player as his town games would suggest. Him dying = losing means I could see why this game might draw more aggro than normal.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@GJ Do the smileys have to deal with the mason part of your role, or is that for some other part?
Thanks for the idea of bookmarking Necarg's posts, makes that easier. I bet he has a restriction on the number of posts in a day he can make, hence the edits to that post even when asked by others not to?
@IABM What part of that action do you support exactly? You had just called him confirmed town, how does TS's claim of being neutral affect your thoughts on the strikes and such from Taredas? Also, no way does that confirm Bur as scum, as tom already stated.
Unfortunate that TS is replacing out, but if the game is causing him that much grief, its probably just for the best for his general well being.
Do you have any links to other games you've played as scum? Your posts always sound so oddly constructed, like articulated in a way scum would. I might be wrong and that could just be how you talk, though, hence wanting to see another game so I cha compare.
I was town in Drunk Trackers, my last scum game is before my hiatus so not sure if its particularly relevant. I was scum in Modern Family if you care to go dig that one up looking through my old PM's.
Hey, IMAB is still calling me scum, without actually saying why I'm scum. Neat. For the record, why do you (IMAB) believe that scum hitch themselves to bad wagons? Are town not likely to do so? I would think them actually more likely to do so, because scum know how that bad wagon will flip when it comes to fruition.
I don't believe the wagon against you is a bad one, but still want your question to the thread above.
/replace I not only don't have the time to play Mafia right now, but I've stopped enjoying Mafia recently. I meant to be /replace for this game, but whatever.
Especially since I'm being attacked in this game for being on the site, when I haven't been on since Monday or Tuesday.
So good luck everyone.
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Thanks for resolving that Jobie. Hope you have more time in the near future.
In regards to the Jobie case I can only speak for myself, but my vote was to apply pressure and elicit a response as we have so many players in the background. Now we have it. unvote
The other problem is that there are very few actual cases. The game has really petered out. I like Necarg, Tom and Bur as scum but basically if the others stay vla, busy it is going to be pretty hard to feel confident. Necarg promised us a big catchup.
If you find yourself with mostly town reads it is imperative to figure out why. I can accept that I may be on the wrong track, so if I am then where are the other cases? There should be 3-5 scum players. Time to find them.
Based on what conversations I have had outside the game I am willing to (tom)slog through this one as Taredas already has two replace outs on his hands at the moment. Let us all have a fun game!
Why on earth would we no lynch with Nacho's ability? Just tag one of the lurkers who isn't replacing, have Taredas mod kill Jobie and Melvin's spot, and let's move on.
You know what, no, I can't smile. 1k posts, no direction, tons of few posters. Roll a dice for all I care, but I am done with this day. Let's just check Necarg since he has a high lynch rate anyway.
Unvote, whoever Vote: whoever puts a vote on Necarg.
@gj im not qualified to make this point, but i think youre misreading the flow.
necarg looked like a good choice for awhile, but not so much now. if you just want to jump on a wagon that has a chance of succeeding, its probably hawk/jobie at this point, which is super disappointing.
especially as i feel theyre both basically null (though im very interested in hawk answering my question, and everyone else continuing not to speculate about it until he does)
so johnny. you say no direction.
how about you make some? you still havent posted a list, and frankly you can do better than "lets reveal necarg"
I am inclined to believe TS's claim. It makes sense with his play, and IDK lets just move on and not flame everybody.
I was going to make a huge post about alignments but the more I tried the more I decided that I didn't have an definitive reads other than that I feel that
RobRoy, TS and Tom are probably pro-town. Unvote
iamabusinessman, is sorta neutral for me at this point slightly leaning scum. I don't like the lie, and I don't like how he dismisses anything he doesn't like.
Why on earth would we no lynch with Nacho's ability? Just tag one of the lurkers who isn't replacing, have Taredas mod kill Jobie and Melvin's spot, and let's move on.
You know what, no, I can't smile. 1k posts, no direction, tons of few posters. Roll a dice for all I care, but I am done with this day. Let's just check Necarg since he has a high lynch rate anyway.
Unvote, whoever Vote: whoever puts a vote on Necarg.
I'm not going to lie this is starting to become my thought process as well. I don't like lynching Necarg though.
Hawk is my choice for who we attempt to lynch then. If anyone feels really strongly about any of this then now is the time to make an argument.
If their is literally no strong lynch candidate the reveal plan becomes much more appealing.
@AllWho has a strong scum read right now?
I don't think a random kill is worth it. I'd prefer some analysis. I'm willing to PBPA any player someone has interest in or hear some cases to work toward a valid lynch.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
im sure this doesnt come as a dissapointment, as i havent had terribly much to contribute to the game so far, but im going to have to replace out. after being diagnosed with cancer this week, my life is just too hectic to keep up with online games that require a lot of reading and critical thought. my slot could be a lot of fun to somebody with time and focus to put into it, and i need to focus on my health. good luck with the game to everyone remaining, and sorry i couldnt have stayed longer to see it to the end with you all.
im sure this doesnt come as a dissapointment, as i havent had terribly much to contribute to the game so far, but im going to have to replace out. after being diagnosed with cancer this week, my life is just too hectic to keep up with online games that require a lot of reading and critical thought. my slot could be a lot of fun to somebody with time and focus to put into it, and i need to focus on my health. good luck with the game to everyone remaining, and sorry i couldnt have stayed longer to see it to the end with you all.
I'm sorry to hear that Leuk. Hope everything ends up all right. If you have time in the future hopefully you can return.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hey Hunt... who do YOU want to lynch? Not out of whatever lurkers people come up with... who is your preference? Actually did you post a T/S list? Actually, I remember you doing that.
Why is it that you'd rather lynch Jobie over Hawk when "I know the feeling of being newly married. It has been most of the reason I have been less active over the last 6 months." while your Hawk read is based on your town blocks reads (and therefore maybe more reliable in your eyes?)
I posted a T/S list.
I don't really have a desire to put too much thought into this right now, but basically it boils down to me wanting to sheep my town block through day one because I hate day ones and because I need more information before my thought processes become useful.
I also have a good reason for why the lurkers are the group we should look at, but you won't be getting it out of me yet.
Jobie, Hawk, whoever. Let's just get a good pick and let Nacho choose their fate.
im sure this doesnt come as a dissapointment, as i havent had terribly much to contribute to the game so far, but im going to have to replace out. after being diagnosed with cancer this week, my life is just too hectic to keep up with online games that require a lot of reading and critical thought. my slot could be a lot of fun to somebody with time and focus to put into it, and i need to focus on my health. good luck with the game to everyone remaining, and sorry i couldnt have stayed longer to see it to the end with you all.
Sorry to hear that Leuko, good luck and stay strong.
so johnny pinged me a little, so i went through his posts:
Quote from gj »
I will end the day by post 1,000
what was this about?
Quote from gj »
You claimed halfway through. We want to know if there is a functional reason why. Using an ability "just because" is terrible.
this was directed at hans. if people thought TS was rolefishing, how did no one point this out?
especially with johnny's outspoken anti-information stance
Quote from gj »
I am also advocating making L-4 the new claim range
wait, does johnny want people to claim or not?
Quote from gj »
Nacho, I need you to do something. I believe you and hope we can be friends this game. Unfortunately, there is this voice I consider quite reliable that is telling me your role is a scum role. Tell me Nacho, why would she tell me such a thing?
this post is weird because the voice in his head, but at its core it is throwing shade while distancing himself from the read.
Quote from gj »
Right now, I would ask Tom to be wrung up, and put the mafia in the weird situation of either letting a confirmed town run around, or have to nk Tom. That actually soudns dynamite
im not gonna say this is a slip, but it does show hes thinking about how mafia will spend its night
Quote from gj »
Meh, I might as well claim since I feel myself being super lazy. I am masoned with another player, I am confirmed town to that player, and that player is confirmed town to me. There are events that may occur that player to enter the game under certain circumstances, and neither one of us knows which.
this is super weird. hes masoned to a player that isnt playing yet?
oh, and what are his feelings on claims again?
Quote from gj »
just as I stopped trying to figure out your and Toms little spat, aside from the fact that I thought you were both townish, it just made my head hurt.
this is actually a lie according to his own posts. he has fairly consistently thought me scum. he did have one post that he was feeling better about me, but that was after wanting to run me up and before he put me as "lean scum" on his very old t/s list
this isnt exactly a strong scum read, but barely anyone has those in this game apparently. so i am officially advocating a GJ reveal.
even if you dont agree with my thoughts on him, its a little better than a lurker reveal just because he has more interactions. unvote, vote: DoTA redirect to gj
So, I'm breaking this up into a couple posts to keep things straight. Stuff to me, then stuff I have comments about, then response to Nacho. Then MAYBE the post breaking down DV's info he has that he's been giving us.
First, a question for Nacho since his post won't be up for a while: Nacho: Can you point me to a couple of your town games, and a couple of your scum games? I wanna check something.
[box]@DV:
Skirting rules that were made to be gamed is quite maddening. Playing a little more fast and loose. Got tired of people purposefully misunderstanding my words and I wanted it to be clear what I was thinking. I also believe that I may have been slightly too literal with my interpretation after a small conversation with the moderator.
So, are you gonna get in trouble because you're playing it so fast and loose then? Are you still adhering to your PR?
I still have NO idea what your PR actually is. Yout still just talk funny. Although less so now.
I may not be able to participate in the lynch today though we will see. One believes though that they have followed the right path either way. Regardless on day one I doubt that will have too large of an affect on the game.
I was trying to quote the sections in the middle, but every time I hit quote it only gives me this section. I think the boxes mess with the quote button...
Necarg
Hawk
Bur
Anaklusmos
TappingStones
RobRoy
Gentleman Johnny
Iamabusinessman
Tomsloger
Killjoy
Nacho
As I'm at school, I'll expand as necessary, can't post all my thoughts from my phone while in class.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
(Mainly due to the half a dozen problems that popped up with the new apartment).
V/LA till Sunday 13th.
Oh god please don't use yellow.
still compiling all the t/s lists.
@ghosting im gonna want explanations eventually, but not while youre in class obviously.
my initial thoughts upon a reskim are that i dont want to lynch bur or necarg, though id be down to reveal either.
hawk i have a very particular question for when he comes back. he seems to be a top scumread of several of my townreads and id like to figure him out, and this question should help me do that.
told you bud :]
can we lynch Jobie or Hawk now?
we were both right
I don't want to lynch either until they show up.
Jobie - actual business versus irritation of rolling non-town YET AGAIN
or
Hawk - Having a weird role that actually existed in previous Mind Screws and shares "rules that may or may not exist"
I think I might be more inclined to join you on Jobie than Hawk right now.
I did not realize that Necarg was editing that old post constantly. Thanks Tom for pointing that out more clearly for me.
I ISO'd Necarg, and looking at it with fresh eyes, I could see him just trolling his pretty cool role and avoiding day one (well, functionally one) as long as he can since he hates it so much as non-alignment indicative.
Unvote: Nacho (redirecting Necarg)
Vote: Huntzilla (to Jobie)
Feels weird to vote myself
business should be busyness. lol
@tomsloger
@nachomamma8
You three appear to have townreads on Anaklusmos. Please stop.
I call anak scum here...
Anak responds/dodges with this...
How was that calling anyone scum?
All you did was say his case versus you was bad and not even well. You didn't write a single convincing argument. But regardless you didn't say he was scum just that he backed a bad case and that made him scum?
I don't get it.
not gonna lie, its really hard to read this post.
but once i get through it, i see that your case is "isnt reading the game"
which:
a) i dont really think applies to anak
b) isnt necessarily a scum tell
c) is a trait that i would most readily apply to tappingstones, who was your top townread at the time iirc
so if your case is more than that, please make it again without the DV rant.
and if not, please address b and c
First, a question for Nacho since his post won't be up for a while: Nacho: Can you point me to a couple of your town games, and a couple of your scum games? I wanna check something.
I still have NO idea what your PR actually is. Yout still just talk funny. Although less so now.
I may not be able to participate in the lynch today though we will see. One believes though that they have followed the right path either way. Regardless on day one I doubt that will have too large of an affect on the game.[/quote] In the most recent votecount you're voting Tapping. So, you can vote. Is that what you meant by "might not be able to participate in the lynch"?
I agree that Az is likely pure neutral. Not scum-aligned but also self serving. He's said as much. And we can't vote him, so not much point dealing with him today unless he somehow becomes voteable AND we figure out he's anti-town or something.
I doubt leuko is Tar. I recall him being in Saw, and I doubt Tar (being that he doesn't have a lot of time to begin with) joins another game knowing he might not be able to participate.
Short answer is yes. It doesn't require you to react specifically to EVERY post, but more to read though all their posts, get a feel for them. Maybe find some posts that exemplify your position and quote those.
LEAN TOWN-GJ, Anak, Hans, Tapping
NULL-Melvin, Hawk, DoTa, Ghosting, Jobie, Necarg, leukovirus
LEAN NULLSCUM- Bur
LEAN SCUM-Hunt, IABM
SCUM-Nacho
Notes: Tapping upgraded after claim. I believe it. The way he made it seems genuine. Hunt was null, moved to LS for my point on his read on Hawk. Some of IABM's posts just rub me the wrong way. Bur is barely leaning scum for his response to my questions, so I made him a new category.
I think I've discussed everything else.
Colors wouldn't work, so I just did it this way.
Also, Thank you for showing me that boxes are a thing. I love them.
I could stand to lynch Bur if we have no better options. Would rather lynch a stronger scumread.
The mod let him? What do you mean?
Not specifically, no. He's pretty null to me right now. A lot of stuff he's said hasn't caught my attention for the most part.
I don't think Ghosting's performance in Saw is comperable to here, if that's what you're saying. That quote you have literally says "I had been tempted to post, but coasting in the back seemed like the best choice". He's not doing that to such an extent, and also coasting in this game is likely not the best answer since so many people seem to be for lynching lurkers today instead of anyone else.
I mean... is anyone still scumreading tom? Is anyone still not townreading tom? Scum don't say this, especially not as a reaction to the post it's referring to.
FTR, Nacho, this is part of why I was discouraging people conversing on the setup. I've seen enough towns get distracted with setup spec and drift into apathy.
I dislike this. Kind of a psudo-buddying with his town block, plus a little bit of the "for reasons stated" scumtell. I'm obviousy assuming he's reading Hawk as scum either because his town block is also scumreading them (which is bad) or scumreading him for the reasons his town block is (which as I said is a scumtell).
This isn't a thing. During my v/LA just now, I've logged in every day and read the thread. I haven't had time to post, but I've been reading so that I when I do have time to post, the whole of the thread isn't full of new posts. Then I can remember the thoughts I've had possibly, so it doesn't take as long.
Can I have whys from you on me, Rob, GJ and Hunt? You haven't said much about us.
Wait... you were told? That wasn't just a theory you had?
Hey Hunt... who do YOU want to lynch? Not out of whatever lurkers people come up with... who is your preference? Actually did you post a T/S list? Actually, I remember you doing that.
Why is it that you'd rather lynch Jobie over Hawk when "I know the feeling of being newly married. It has been most of the reason I have been less active over the last 6 months." while your Hawk read is based on your town blocks reads (and therefore maybe more reliable in your eyes?)
Correct!
ive got a "business trip" and im turning 30. im going to assume little time for mafia. maybe some phoneposting.
@dv is your inside information part of your role pm or from some other communication?
im also going to put my question for hawk out there in case he shows up while im away.
quoting his most recent post (which was, btw, a full week ago) for the extra notification hawk do you have a passive ability you chose not to claim?
before you answer, think about why i am asking this question and remember when i said your claim had overlap with my role.
One hears many things from many sources, but this is an infallible source.
Your infallible source needs replacing with a source of pure, high-octane awesomeness.
#AwesomePonies2016
D_V has been abrasive and antagonistic, but feeling that he crossed the line into unacceptable behaviour doesn't make him scum. If my memory of D_V from years ago can be trusted, this is not out of character for him. I haven't gone back to see if a meta argument could be made, but for now I haven't seen anything that would make me think he is scum.
imab has also been aggressive, but consistent in his posted views, as far as I can tell. I've disagreed with a number of his conclusions, but again don't have any reason to believe him scum at this time.
For the record, feeling slightly townier on D_V than imab.
Given Tapping's replacing out, I'm not going to go into too much detail about this. I think I answered this, though in my post 838 - let me know if you want me to amplify anything there.
I'll grant you that 2) is a minor point in your favour, but am less swayed by 1). If this was the case, though, then I really do wish that TS would have clarified that when I began asking him about it, instead of just counterattacking.
@Taredas: is there a reason you aren't posting in the forum's Replacement Request Thread?
True, although it does make me wonder where the actual forum admins are. That also goes into...
I believe that the reason why D_V was not given a public foul or strike is because, at this time, he is not a public player in the game. I'd be willing to bet that, if D_V were on the player list, he'd have been called out like the other specifically named players were. Hopefully Taredas made that point in private.
Town-aligned neutral is an interesting statement. It would have to mean that his win condition supports the town in some way without exactly matching, so that there are at least theoretical scenarios where the role would win but the town would lose - otherwise he'd be townie, with some additional restrictions. I'm interested to see where his replacement goes with this.
Also, unvote for now. I'd want to send that over to Hawk, but it won't make a difference until he returns.
Great. Now he's using that post to edit in replies to comments from after it was originally posted. Sigh.
Johnny, can you please elaborate on this? What do you believe a town-aligned neutral's win condition would look like, and why would such a player be more defensive than a non-town-aligned neutral?
That is a very L V/LA.
People seem to have standardized on voting the player above the one they actually want the vote on. For example, if I wanted to vote you, I'd actually toss a vote onto imabusinessman. However, this raises the chance that, should we want to lynch you, it'll actually be imab who dies, if the display is wrong but those votes are actually really on imab.
Nacho can use his ability to save a person in this case - if we try to lynch you but actually get imab. However, this would normally require him to be online at the time between when the mod posts the final votecount and the time that the lynch scene is posted. If the mod is instead allowing him to set conditions in advance for the govern, then it gets a lot easier to handle.
One two three not it!
More seriously, though no more relevant to the game: if this is true, then it makes me even more sad that the mod is running this game while apparently not having enough time to devote to it. The fact that we haven't had a content post for literally a week from literally a third of the living players, and the mod can't be in overdrive trying to correct this, is extremely unfortunate.
Gladly
Since neutrals don't have a team, and tend to lose upon death, it makes more sense to me that someone neutral aligned would be more aggressive towards other players, especially if that person feels like they are being misinterpreted or outright misrepresented. In Chimes as the sk, I felt the exact same way towards Kosa, and while mileage may vary, TS can be a more.....vocal player as his town games would suggest. Him dying = losing means I could see why this game might draw more aggro than normal.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Server just hard riped and I think I probs did too as a result.
But Firestorm, Templar, Crit focus, swapping into Icestorm for a fast 6 link.
I am doing Sunder/Earthquake Juggernaut Maruder. I was all in on earthquake, but have been amazingly surprised with how effective sunder is.
@KJ: It's for Path of Exile.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I was town in Drunk Trackers, my last scum game is before my hiatus so not sure if its particularly relevant. I was scum in Modern Family if you care to go dig that one up looking through my old PM's.
Hey, IMAB is still calling me scum, without actually saying why I'm scum. Neat. For the record, why do you (IMAB) believe that scum hitch themselves to bad wagons? Are town not likely to do so? I would think them actually more likely to do so, because scum know how that bad wagon will flip when it comes to fruition.
I don't believe the wagon against you is a bad one, but still want your question to the thread above.
More curiously, what in his not posting anything makes you believe him to be scum now, versus at any other point?
Especially since I'm being attacked in this game for being on the site, when I haven't been on since Monday or Tuesday.
So good luck everyone.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
In regards to the Jobie case I can only speak for myself, but my vote was to apply pressure and elicit a response as we have so many players in the background. Now we have it. unvote
The other problem is that there are very few actual cases. The game has really petered out. I like Necarg, Tom and Bur as scum but basically if the others stay vla, busy it is going to be pretty hard to feel confident. Necarg promised us a big catchup.
If you find yourself with mostly town reads it is imperative to figure out why. I can accept that I may be on the wrong track, so if I am then where are the other cases? There should be 3-5 scum players. Time to find them.
Heyo gj where you at?
You know what, no, I can't smile. 1k posts, no direction, tons of few posters. Roll a dice for all I care, but I am done with this day. Let's just check Necarg since he has a high lynch rate anyway.
Unvote, whoever Vote: whoever puts a vote on Necarg.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
necarg looked like a good choice for awhile, but not so much now. if you just want to jump on a wagon that has a chance of succeeding, its probably hawk/jobie at this point, which is super disappointing.
especially as i feel theyre both basically null (though im very interested in hawk answering my question, and everyone else continuing not to speculate about it until he does)
so johnny. you say no direction.
how about you make some? you still havent posted a list, and frankly you can do better than "lets reveal necarg"
I was going to make a huge post about alignments but the more I tried the more I decided that I didn't have an definitive reads other than that I feel that
RobRoy, TS and Tom are probably pro-town.
Unvote
iamabusinessman, is sorta neutral for me at this point slightly leaning scum. I don't like the lie, and I don't like how he dismisses anything he doesn't like.
I'm not going to lie this is starting to become my thought process as well. I don't like lynching Necarg though.
Hawk is my choice for who we attempt to lynch then. If anyone feels really strongly about any of this then now is the time to make an argument.
@AllWho has a strong scum read right now?
I don't think a random kill is worth it. I'd prefer some analysis. I'm willing to PBPA any player someone has interest in or hear some cases to work toward a valid lynch.
I'm sorry to hear that Leuk. Hope everything ends up all right. If you have time in the future hopefully you can return.
Sorry leuko I hope things work out for the best.
I posted a T/S list.
I don't really have a desire to put too much thought into this right now, but basically it boils down to me wanting to sheep my town block through day one because I hate day ones and because I need more information before my thought processes become useful.
I also have a good reason for why the lurkers are the group we should look at, but you won't be getting it out of me yet.
Jobie, Hawk, whoever. Let's just get a good pick and let Nacho choose their fate.
especially with johnny's outspoken anti-information stance wait, does johnny want people to claim or not? this post is weird because the voice in his head, but at its core it is throwing shade while distancing himself from the read. im not gonna say this is a slip, but it does show hes thinking about how mafia will spend its night this is super weird. hes masoned to a player that isnt playing yet?
oh, and what are his feelings on claims again? this is actually a lie according to his own posts. he has fairly consistently thought me scum. he did have one post that he was feeling better about me, but that was after wanting to run me up and before he put me as "lean scum" on his very old t/s list
this isnt exactly a strong scum read, but barely anyone has those in this game apparently. so i am officially advocating a GJ reveal.
even if you dont agree with my thoughts on him, its a little better than a lurker reveal just because he has more interactions.
unvote, vote: DoTA redirect to gj
I was trying to quote the sections in the middle, but every time I hit quote it only gives me this section. I think the boxes mess with the quote button...
Anyway, yes I meant feud.