Chris, please explain to the class how you decided the name that Seppel was claiming to be. I do not understand how you came to that conclusion and this si coming from someone who was seen every episode and/or movie in the Stargate setting.
The dog he posted is named Amaterasu from the game Okami.
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Yeh I noticed that too. And I just asked Taredas for confirmation on that 21 being correct and he said it is.
Best for the doublevoter to not come out to soon though.
@Cyan: If I wanted an excuse to say that out loud for town points, then why would I ask that question to Taredas privately instead of posting it publicly (like Tom did)?
The only reason for that post is what I told you: the topic was opened and I didn't want a noob (of which we apparently don't have any) to claim the ability out of the blue.
You're accusing me of what Tom is doing.
Yeah, I buy this was Rhand's mindset here. I.e. it was "caution the doublevoter not to out immediately". I also think the way Rhand went about explaining himself was even-keeled - kind of a Goldilocks "just right" not too detailed, not too flip. And then a moderate pushback at Cyan indicates conviction that he was right to do so - i.e. he thought he was doing the right thing by warning the doublevoter not to claim, and he's pushing back against Cyan, because why can't Cyan see that?
I would definitely not scumread Rhand off the doublevoter interaction.
This is the part that I have a problem with. We don't know how the ability will work yet. For all we know, the double voter will just show up as the same person voting twice in Vote Counts. Even if it doesn't, it doesn't take THAT long to figure out whom a double voter is. And like I said, there is no guarantee that a double voter is even town. Is it likely? Maybe. But it's not guaranteed. Overall your sentiment just doesn't come across as sincere, to me. Like I said, it seems like you just saw an opportunity to APPEAR town and jumped on it, without really thinking it through.
And trying to deflect onto Tom is even worse, incidentally.
This is a good look from Cyan, here. I think he's wrong about Rhand, but I like that he's working through the options and trying to get into Rhand's head. I especially like the phrasing of "there is no guarantee that a double voter is even town. Is it likely? Maybe. But it's not guaranteed." That's a town mindset, insofar as you have to think about hard information versus probabilities, have to consider the likely, the grey areas, the edge cases as town. I feel like scum!Cyan (who would know if there is a scum doublevoter or not) would state it more in terms of introducing fear - like, "the doublevoter could be scum. Did you even consider that?"
It's possible I'm overthinking this! But, I'm leaning town on Cyan.
After catching up, I agree with Cyan. Rand initially tries to keep information to himself and then poorly tries to reason it.
My inclination is to Vote: Rhand.
Now that I've worked through how I feel about Rhand's initial comments, I dislike this post immensely. Not only is it piggybacking on the far-more-sincere-sounding Cyan, it's also a misrepresentation of what was actually going on. I don't even think Cyan thought that's what Rhand was doing? Like. "Rhand initially tries to keep information to himself," good gracious, no, not at all.
Plowshares, this is either lazy, or outright slimy/dishonest.
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@Cyan-Could you expand on why you think Rhand's claim that he was trying to prevent the doublevoter from outing himself makes him scummy, as opposed to him being confused about the player base/not totally thinking the doublevoter's alignment through? I'm having trouble resolving this distinction
@Rhand-Would you have said anything regarding the doublevoter catch had tom not mentioned it in the second post?
I'll wait for answers before I vote, but I feel like post 32 is pretty strange, it feels like Rhand is flailing here.
@Vox-what's the benefit to that claim exactly?
Still don't like this post. In particular, I don't like how there's a question for Rhand trying to understand where he was coming from, and then he pre-empts his own question at the end by calling what Rhand's doing "flailing" and threatening a vote.
ok so i haven't been playing in a while but is this one of those posts that made everybody really hate tom across every game he's played in? Like are we expecting this kind of brain emission the entire game or what?
hey, not everybody. just some people.
but yeah. you can expect more of that.
cyan is townclearing people way too early. this seems dangerous, especially when chris is one of those people. i still think youre town, but dont be dumb.
hey, not everybody. just some people.
but yeah. you can expect more of that.
Are you planning on posting content? If this is all you're contributing, then that'll make this super easy.
because of my long history of only posting when i have something worthwhile to say?
i havent even made anyone angry at me yet.
I've read the Cyan/Chris/Tom/Iso back and forth, and my position is that tomsloger is being entirely too much of a *****goblin to be scum.
(By that, I mean I can't fathom the scum motivation for tom bursting into the thread like the Kool-Aid Man and poking seemingly everybody with a stick)
ScumIso does not put himself out there like this so aggressively so early, especially not on someone that would be likely to rally cries of "Iso's being a jackass to the new guy!" You wanna talk about Occam's Razor? The simple explanation is that I'm town and laser-focused on someone I think is scum this early. Sure, I'll give you that I'd be playing this game differently if I were scum than I played Amyrlin because my team was absolute deadweight in that game and I had to establish myself as a leader after I replaced Void when he went missing with the discrepancy with the Seat's election vote. I had to play cautiously in that game because I was in a very dangerous situation and I had to play politics with everyone that I wasn't trying to lynch so as to not be usurped abruptly in the Night. ScumIso is shady, passive-aggressive, manipulative, demoralizing, and careful. TownIso is boisterous, aggressive, hot-headed, arrogant, and vicious. Which of these do you feel falls more in line with my play so far?
First of all, if you are that aware of your meta, to the point where you can write long arias about how you play as either alignment, then surely any kind of toneread on you is useless WIFOM?
Second of all, defining yourself as "careful" as scum and "hot-headed" as town, creating a dichotomy where the harder you push, the townier you are, creates a feedback loop of expectations and conveniently gives scum!Iso license to drive all the mislyches he wants. I don't accept this. Just the same as you wouldn't give a new player a pass if he asks a scummy question just because he's new, I don't accept the narrative you're trying to push on the thread, here. Your play will be judged on its own merits this game, independently of anything you've done in the past.
And, even if I were to accept your town/scum dichotomy, exactly what would you call this post other than "passive-aggressive" and "demoralizing"?
@TOM-Why is your inclination to scum read S.C.? I see you're already "spamming it up" or pulling a Tom as we've come to say.
@Iso-I'm waiting on your strong case against Tom (which I don't think exists, but have at it old sport). I also find it strange that you laid out so many contrasting characteristics about your town and scum games. Seems like you're trying to get out of a mess to me. You got off at the wrong exit now you have to back up to get back on track. Not necessarily scummy but I don't like it.
Cyan is town. Tom and notVox probably too. And Seppel I think.
(is it public knowledge who notVox actually is?)
I don't have a read on Iso, but I don't understand how he sees the scumchat thing as a scumslip. It's way more likely to come from town.
More when I'm more awake.
God I hate this vote so much. Out of all of the people that went after you, you had to pick this one to have a go at. Why did I even bother unvoting you.
I worded that very specifically so that if you are one of those dumb 'Can test a post for lies roles'(that I never believe are real but somehow manage to make it into setups once in awhile), there can be no ambiguity).
Seriously though, at some point it will be super, super obvious that I'm town. Probably sooner than I want it to. I'm trying to be lowkey, but you know, I'll probably get the better of myself one of these days.
Cyan is town. Tom and notVox probably too. And Seppel I think.
(is it public knowledge who notVox actually is?)
I don't have a read on Iso, but I don't understand how he sees the scumchat thing as a scumslip. It's way more likely to come from town.
More when I'm more awake.
God I hate this vote so much. Out of all of the people that went after you, you had to pick this one to have a go at. Why did I even bother unvoting you.
Man why can't I have 2 votes.
The guy has 1 post and it's a poor barn of your tunnel. Which you really should step out of.
If anything, some pressure on him might at least spark more input.
Problem I have is that I really, really dislike your #165 - because I really, really disliked Plowshares' Rhand vote - it felt incredibly opportunistic, and reading through I was trying to decide if I wanted to lynch Plowshares, or Iso, first.
I also dislike your certainty in being able to read Chris, because it seems at odds with how you approached him in Predator. Your head wasn't admittedly fully in that game, but I know you have a lot of respect for him as a player, and I struggle a bit seeing Town!Cyan be so certain over his ability to town read someone at this stage. Certain on a scum read? Absolutely. I fully expect you to dig your teeth in (as both alignments) like a dog with a bone.
Dance with me.
Pick 3 players you haven't mentioned yet this game, and give me preliminary thoughts on them and their posts. I'll even let you pick the players!
This is exactly why I hate that Rhand chose to go after Plowshares. Also the fact that other people had already expressed a dislike toward him. It's just so easy and opportunistic. It's the path of least resistance. I am alraedy on record stating my dislike toward people that take the path of least resistance.
I have a specific reason for why I think Sir Chris is town but I can't tell you right now. I promise to reveal it eventually. I bet if Sir Chris himself *really* thought about it, he would figure out what it was, and would be fine with wait until later to talk about it. That's all I'm going to say on this subject for now. But I am supremely confident in this read.
As for 3 other players. I believe Seppel is Neutral Survivor at best, so hopefully that situation works itself out. Plowshares barn of my vote actually IS pretty bad. I'm just not happy to see Rhand comment on that one, I would have liked to see him talk about literally ANY of the other people that talked about him, rather than take what I feel is the cop out road. TappingStones and Mztr make me slightly uneasy. And frankly, so do you. NotVoxxicus seems very town to me currently, Vaimes seems pretty town too, and I don't think I have strong reads on anyone else. I guess that's more than 3, oh well.
Okay. That line of thought on Plowshares/Rhand makes me feel a bit better - here's the post I was writing when I saw your 165, but it made me so uneasy because it did not feel genuine to me:
NotVoxx is town.
Sir Chris is probably town.
Vaimes is probbbbably town, but less certain.
I don't have a concrete read on Tom yet - it feels a bit like he's trying to emulate the scattershottedness (that's a word, shh) that had him pretty widely town-read in Predator. Given the backlash against that post-game it makes me raise an eyebrow a bit because I struggle to see the town motivation for doing that - shows a certain kind of self-awareness disguising itself as a lack of self-awareness.
Trying to decide if I want to lynch Iso or Plowshares.
Iso's bravado and accusation of chainsawing does not read genuine at all. This isn't to say that Iso doesn't have a certain bravado as town at times, but it reads as a much more genuine kind of energy.
Plowshare's Rhand vote makes my skin crawl. Feels slimy and opportunistic.
~Fake edit due to refresh~ Sigh. You're scum this game, Cyan, aren't you? This makes me sad.
I'm trying to figure out what I think about TS' #162. My gut feeling is TS rolled scum and is blatantly trying to appease an active, aggressive player, but it's weak.
I'm hesitant to scumread Iso for going after tom, because. If Iso is such a top player, why would he go for what everyone considers to be a super easy target?
I'm trying to figure out what I think about TS' #162. My gut feeling is TS rolled scum and is blatantly trying to appease an active, aggressive player, but it's weak.
He was in Predator Mafia where he didn't really participate. S.C. tried to pick up his spirits and I went after Chris for throwing softballs at Cyan. I like this active Cyan much better than the non-existent one from Predator.
@Voxx-That would be pretty weak. Try to think of other motivations (like the one I posted above).
I had a similar reaction when reading that post, which is exactly why I just said that he makes me feel uneasy.
I feel similarly about Mztr's 160. These posts both come across to me as 'tell us why we should vote Tom so that we can justify doing so'.
Then you aren't reading closely. I already told Iso that there isn't a great case against Tom. WHy would I want to justify voting for someone I don't currently think is scum? Your characterization of me doesn't jibe with what I'm written man.
@Nacho & Chris: You just saw me play in Vanillaville as scum, where I started off terribly clunkily and never recovered. For some reason, Nacho, you were townreading me in that game. Chris, however, caught on to me early, due to the vast discrepancies in my playstyle there and as town in the past. If anything, I'm amazed that either of you could be possibly scumreading me based on the juxtaposition of my play there and my play here. So please, share with the class why your sudden insightfulness on the way I play Mafia has abruptly come to a halt.
I caught you early in that game because your attack on DCIII made absolutely no sense based on the new information you were seeing, just like your attack on Tom here makes absolutely no sense based on what he's posting. The idea that I am supposed to townread you this game because your tone is better than your tone in an uncharacteristically weak scumgame is laughable; I much prefer to read players by the strength of their cases and how they form reads on people, and you're fitting a scum narrative to Tom's posting as opposed to actually reading him. That makes you scum.
@Voxx: don't you think that mentioning scumchat is too ballsy for scum!Tom?
Maybe? But it just feels like he's trying to mimic his previous playstyle to me, rather than it being a genuine thought process. It's the vibe I got off Rodemy in Apocalypse mafia. Maybe it's nothing, but I don't want to ignore the feeling and write him off.
Then you aren't reading closely. I already told Iso that there isn't a great case against Tom. WHy would I want to justify voting for someone I don't currently think is scum? Your characterization of me doesn't jibe with what I'm written man.
Oh?
@Iso-I'm waiting on your strong case against Tom (which I don't think exists, but have at it old sport)
Do tell. Are you just trying to make Iso make himself look worse then?
@Nacho & Chris: You just saw me play in Vanillaville as scum, where I started off terribly clunkily and never recovered. For some reason, Nacho, you were townreading me in that game. Chris, however, caught on to me early, due to the vast discrepancies in my playstyle there and as town in the past. If anything, I'm amazed that either of you could be possibly scumreading me based on the juxtaposition of my play there and my play here. So please, share with the class why your sudden insightfulness on the way I play Mafia has abruptly come to a halt.
I caught you early in that game because your attack on DCIII made absolutely no sense based on the new information you were seeing, just like your attack on Tom here makes absolutely no sense based on what he's posting. The idea that I am supposed to townread you this game because your tone is better than your tone in an uncharacteristically weak scumgame is laughable; I much prefer to read players by the strength of their cases and how they form reads on people, and you're fitting a scum narrative to Tom's posting as opposed to actually reading him. That makes you scum.
Your name is filling me with regret, because ctrl+F'ing to find things I need to respond to is failing me massively.
But while I'm talking at you - gun to your head, is Tordeck town, or scum, and why?
Ew. I didn't even consider that.
Tordeck: is in this game. Gun to my head, I probably get shot while waffling. I don't know.
The four best players in this game are you, Cyan, Seppel and Chris. Any one of them is a huge threat when scum. So I put my vote on the one I can read the least and for now that is where it will stay. That said I would be perfectly happy to switch to you (or Chris should certain tells show up) should I feel that is the proper lynch for toDay.
I kind of like the attitude here, though. It's suitably paranoid in a towny way, kind of orienting yourself around "okay these are the guys I have to figure out to win the game" as an anchor? I mean he does go "but yeah I'll totally switch my vote later, lol". But eh, I think that just looks scummy but it's not actually a scum thing. But, really, I have nearly zero conviction with a Tordeck read. Magic 8-ball says, "ask again later."
A question for your question, Voxx. I know you don't do things carelessly or without reason. So, about that naked "NotVoxx is town" thing. I believe you would believe you could pocket me with a hard townread as scum. But I also believe that you believe that I would immediately suspect such a blatant move. But you did it anyway, and you did it right away instead of engaging me first. It was ivory-tower analysis. There were no bells and whistles to disarm or dazzle me. So you're town.
/poses dramatically
I am:
A) Brilliant
B) Deluded
C) Up way past my bedtime
D) All of the above
Yeah, I keep rereading Iso's posts and I can't fathom him going after tom like this as scum. Someone should walk me through what Iso stands to gain as scum and going after tom, of all people.
On the other hand, I think all the people voting for him are town + Seppel? Whee. I'll look into that again Later.
I could see newbscum falling into the scumread-the-new-person trap, but. Yeah.
Which is why I'm not voting you. It just pinged me as feeling off in my initial read through.
If you had a daykill, and you either had to fire right now, or die yourself, who would you target, and why?
Plowshares. Iso and Rhand are also interesting. Plowshares jumped onto Rhand without doing any of his own leg work, it didn't feel right to me. Iso I spoke of briefly, finally I didn't buy Rhand's "word usage" argument but he's gotten out from under it with later posts.
Then you aren't reading closely. I already told Iso that there isn't a great case against Tom. WHy would I want to justify voting for someone I don't currently think is scum? Your characterization of me doesn't jibe with what I'm written man.
Oh?
@Iso-I'm waiting on your strong case against Tom (which I don't think exists, but have at it old sport)
Do tell. Are you just trying to make Iso make himself look worse then?
Iso says he has a case. He has failed to make it. I'm holding him to that. Are you not interested to see what he's talking about?
But why would you say I'm looking for a reason to vote Tom when I've ALREADY stated that there isn't a strong case for Tom? Seems a bit manufactured. I mean at least use my own words against me man, not things I said the opposite of.
Yeah, I keep rereading Iso's posts and I can't fathom him going after tom like this as scum. Someone should walk me through what Iso stands to gain as scum and going after tom, of all people.
The reason I voted Iso right away is he didn't give a clear reason why he voted for Tom and I have to admit I am pretty much over the 'vote and then walk away' mentality that Iso has displayed over how many games. Since then he has gave a list of hilarious answers to questions and has given the softest meta defense I have seen in awhile. I don't know what the scum motivation is here, but I don't see the town one either and that's a problem. He has hosted Tom's first two games and should know that Tom can be a little let's call it... silly at times in how he logics out a game, and so his first move is to aggressively pursue him while not bothering to explain himself? It's not a good move. If Iso is town he needs to be more of a team player, lose the ego, and play the game right. Dude expects me to believe that he thinks I hard defended a buddy from him and that I'm next which makes no sense in any reality in which you've witnessed my scum game.
Also I have found in my experience that people screw themselves over looking at narrowly defined things like 'what does scum gain from this action?' That's just not a good scum approach, as what they gain is you asking that question. Playing scum is really simple. Kill town, don't die, do anything to make that happen. Scum don't need a giant points system to win.
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Yeah, I keep rereading Iso's posts and I can't fathom him going after tom like this as scum. Someone should walk me through what Iso stands to gain as scum and going after tom, of all people.
On the other hand, I think all the people voting for him are town + Seppel? Whee. I'll look into that again Later.
I could see newbscum falling into the scumread-the-new-person trap, but. Yeah.
@iso i dont recall thinking chris was scum this game, but nor do i think hes town.
i dont think chris' facade has cracked. he has shown us only what he wants us to see.
this is part of what made me scumread him in predator. hes calculating. but i think thats just chris, or at least the way chris plays mafia.
and yes, i intend on scum hunting. that is what i was trying to do by "bursting into the thread like the Kool-Aid Man and poking [you] with a stick" (which is, btw, one of my favorite sentences ever. <3 antivoxx)
that said, i actually think youre town now. im not Cyan levels of sure, but yeah.
i just dont think a scum iso comes at me like that. you would put in the work and bury me. i say scummy ***** all the time, if you wanted to push a mislynch you know full well ill leave an opening.
@pengo i dont care enough about your meta to start reading old games you were in.
the only other question is why did i bring up scum chat.
i was trying to show cyan that he shouldnt be townclearing people yet (which he shouldnt have been. it was too early) using myself as an example. townreading me was ridiculous at that point.
@tordeck you say seppel is one of the 4 best players in this game. what is his great skill other than being a complete enigma?
@seppel dont just follow cyan. youre apparently a great mafia player. do a cool trick.
@notvoxx you are currently the townier of the voxxici. still holding out hope that the universe makes sense and you are on different teams.
"*****goblin" lol. i read that post on a smokebreak at work earlier and almost set my beard on fire laughing.
@cyan do you really have so much confidence in your ability to read chris? like, how would scum chris have been different this game? you said you have some sort of mystical reason, but that doesnt do it for me.
@chris its not that i WANT to scumread you. i like you.
but i always do seem to, dont i?
chris its not that i WANT to scumread you. i like you.
but i always do seem to, dont i?
Oooh, inclined as in you tend to do so, I see what you meant now. Okay you said that a little weird, I understand now.
Also I have my ideas about what Cyan is talking about, but I don't think its a simple A to B to C thought process from Cyan, but I'll let him play in his sandbox for a bit, he's active I don't need to go far to question him about things.
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Yeah, I keep rereading Iso's posts and I can't fathom him going after tom like this as scum. Someone should walk me through what Iso stands to gain as scum and going after tom, of all people.
The reason I voted Iso right away is he didn't give a clear reason why he voted for Tom and I have to admit I am pretty much over the 'vote and then walk away' mentality that Iso has displayed over how many games. Since then he has gave a list of hilarious answers to questions and has given the softest meta defense I have seen in awhile. I don't know what the scum motivation is here, but I don't see the town one either and that's a problem. He has hosted Tom's first two games and should know that Tom can be a little let's call it... silly at times in how he logics out a game, and so his first move is to aggressively pursue him while not bothering to explain himself? It's not a good move. If Iso is town he needs to be more of a team player, lose the ego, and play the game right. Dude expects me to believe that he thinks I hard defended a buddy from him and that I'm next which makes no sense in any reality in which you've witnessed my scum game.
Also I have found in my experience that people screw themselves over looking at narrowly defined things like 'what does scum gain from this action?' That's just not a good scum approach, as what they gain is you asking that question. Playing scum is really simple. Kill town, don't die, do anything to make that happen. Scum don't need a giant points system to win.
It's a very good scum approach if they do something that garners a lot of attention and could possibly end up killing them?
It's a very good scum approach if they do something that garners a lot of attention and could possibly end up killing them?
You can't mislynch anyone if you're dead.
You assume a Scum!Iso believed this was going to be his downfall when he started this adventure. Can you explain why you think this is a reasonable thought to have? Iso votes Tom, a new player who he knows makes a fool of himself, and goes from there. Also Iso made the counter point to this himself: he played as scum trying not to be 'hulk smash' recently and he was skewered for it. A scum Iso should have no expectation to survive this game unless he tries desperately to replicate his town game. This isn't looking for a black hat in a sea of white, Vaimes, it is comparing two very close shades of grey and seeing it if adds up. Did you read Vanillaville? It didn't end well for Scum Iso day one. I am trying to determine if this is the true town Iso vigor or if he is trying to fake such vigor and survive. I don't see what other avenue he has as scum this game. Do you believe a scum Iso would try to fade into the background with this player list? I don't feel as if you have thought this through very well Vaimes, or are you completely unfamiliar with Iso?
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I don't play here often enough to be familiar with anyone, except CitricBase. All I'm going with right now are base assumptions as to what scum would or would not want to do, and I think 'going after an easy target' is something any experienced player would circumvent. Is that an unreasonable assumption?
It depends on how he can spin it. Base assumptions are fair to make, and it's probably a healthy way to play the game because people who are too familiar with people tend to be a bit silly at times and go off on wild adventures where they go too deep into their notions of meta, but my read of Iso has advanced to stage two. The Tom vote (the lack of explanation) got me feeling feisty, but when he threw out this:
Quote from Iso »
You just saw me play in Vanillaville as scum, where I started off terribly clunkily and never recovered. For some reason, Nacho, you were townreading me in that game. Chris, however, caught on to me early, due to the vast discrepancies in my playstyle there and as town in the past. If anything, I'm amazed that either of you could be possibly scumreading me based on the juxtaposition of my play there and my play here. So please, share with the class why your sudden insightfulness on the way I play Mafia has abruptly come to a halt.
He dropped the meta gauntlet three pages into the game Vaimes. He's just oozing with fake self-righteousness as far as I am concerned. Iso could have responded to me in a town iso way that I would have liked, but he hasn't really done that. He has been most unhelpful so far.
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dont lean. wait til youre sure.
makes the prickles go away.
...How would you know?
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Yeah, I buy this was Rhand's mindset here. I.e. it was "caution the doublevoter not to out immediately". I also think the way Rhand went about explaining himself was even-keeled - kind of a Goldilocks "just right" not too detailed, not too flip. And then a moderate pushback at Cyan indicates conviction that he was right to do so - i.e. he thought he was doing the right thing by warning the doublevoter not to claim, and he's pushing back against Cyan, because why can't Cyan see that?
I would definitely not scumread Rhand off the doublevoter interaction.
This is a good look from Cyan, here. I think he's wrong about Rhand, but I like that he's working through the options and trying to get into Rhand's head. I especially like the phrasing of "there is no guarantee that a double voter is even town. Is it likely? Maybe. But it's not guaranteed." That's a town mindset, insofar as you have to think about hard information versus probabilities, have to consider the likely, the grey areas, the edge cases as town. I feel like scum!Cyan (who would know if there is a scum doublevoter or not) would state it more in terms of introducing fear - like, "the doublevoter could be scum. Did you even consider that?"
It's possible I'm overthinking this! But, I'm leaning town on Cyan.
Now that I've worked through how I feel about Rhand's initial comments, I dislike this post immensely. Not only is it piggybacking on the far-more-sincere-sounding Cyan, it's also a misrepresentation of what was actually going on. I don't even think Cyan thought that's what Rhand was doing? Like. "Rhand initially tries to keep information to himself," good gracious, no, not at all.
Plowshares, this is either lazy, or outright slimy/dishonest.
Could you possibly do me a favor and fill out this brief survey?
(check one)
[ ] "I didn't really read the opening posts that closely and was just looking for something to say."
[ ] "Yes, I'm mafia, and my partners are [INSERT NAMES HERE]"
Still don't like this post. In particular, I don't like how there's a question for Rhand trying to understand where he was coming from, and then he pre-empts his own question at the end by calling what Rhand's doing "flailing" and threatening a vote.
I've read the Cyan/Chris/Tom/Iso back and forth, and my position is that tomsloger is being entirely too much of a *****goblin to be scum.
(By that, I mean I can't fathom the scum motivation for tom bursting into the thread like the Kool-Aid Man and poking seemingly everybody with a stick)
@Iso:
First of all, if you are that aware of your meta, to the point where you can write long arias about how you play as either alignment, then surely any kind of toneread on you is useless WIFOM?
Second of all, defining yourself as "careful" as scum and "hot-headed" as town, creating a dichotomy where the harder you push, the townier you are, creates a feedback loop of expectations and conveniently gives scum!Iso license to drive all the mislyches he wants. I don't accept this. Just the same as you wouldn't give a new player a pass if he asks a scummy question just because he's new, I don't accept the narrative you're trying to push on the thread, here. Your play will be judged on its own merits this game, independently of anything you've done in the past.
And, even if I were to accept your town/scum dichotomy, exactly what would you call this post other than "passive-aggressive" and "demoralizing"?
I'm still more sold on Plowshares being scum than Iso, but eh. This game is less than 24 hours old.
The Family
@TOM-Why is your inclination to scum read S.C.? I see you're already "spamming it up" or pulling a Tom as we've come to say.
@Iso-I'm waiting on your strong case against Tom (which I don't think exists, but have at it old sport). I also find it strange that you laid out so many contrasting characteristics about your town and scum games. Seems like you're trying to get out of a mess to me. You got off at the wrong exit now you have to back up to get back on track. Not necessarily scummy but I don't like it.
@Cyan-You seem town and good. I like this player!
That is all.
Cyan is town. Tom and notVox probably too. And Seppel I think.
(is it public knowledge who notVox actually is?)
I don't have a read on Iso, but I don't understand how he sees the scumchat thing as a scumslip. It's way more likely to come from town.
More when I'm more awake.
God I hate this vote so much. Out of all of the people that went after you, you had to pick this one to have a go at. Why did I even bother unvoting you.
Man why can't I have 2 votes.
Cyan, are you scum?
Seriously though, at some point it will be super, super obvious that I'm town. Probably sooner than I want it to. I'm trying to be lowkey, but you know, I'll probably get the better of myself one of these days.
Are YOU town, Voxxicus?
I can see this becoming a Thing at some point, so I'll just clear this up now:
I am not an Alt/Gimmick account for anyone on this site
I'm not "actually" anyone. I'm just me.
The guy has 1 post and it's a poor barn of your tunnel. Which you really should step out of.
If anything, some pressure on him might at least spark more input.
Problem I have is that I really, really dislike your #165 - because I really, really disliked Plowshares' Rhand vote - it felt incredibly opportunistic, and reading through I was trying to decide if I wanted to lynch Plowshares, or Iso, first.
I also dislike your certainty in being able to read Chris, because it seems at odds with how you approached him in Predator. Your head wasn't admittedly fully in that game, but I know you have a lot of respect for him as a player, and I struggle a bit seeing Town!Cyan be so certain over his ability to town read someone at this stage. Certain on a scum read? Absolutely. I fully expect you to dig your teeth in (as both alignments) like a dog with a bone.
Dance with me.
Pick 3 players you haven't mentioned yet this game, and give me preliminary thoughts on them and their posts. I'll even let you pick the players!
This is exactly why I hate that Rhand chose to go after Plowshares. Also the fact that other people had already expressed a dislike toward him. It's just so easy and opportunistic. It's the path of least resistance. I am alraedy on record stating my dislike toward people that take the path of least resistance.
I have a specific reason for why I think Sir Chris is town but I can't tell you right now. I promise to reveal it eventually. I bet if Sir Chris himself *really* thought about it, he would figure out what it was, and would be fine with wait until later to talk about it. That's all I'm going to say on this subject for now. But I am supremely confident in this read.
As for 3 other players. I believe Seppel is Neutral Survivor at best, so hopefully that situation works itself out. Plowshares barn of my vote actually IS pretty bad. I'm just not happy to see Rhand comment on that one, I would have liked to see him talk about literally ANY of the other people that talked about him, rather than take what I feel is the cop out road. TappingStones and Mztr make me slightly uneasy. And frankly, so do you. NotVoxxicus seems very town to me currently, Vaimes seems pretty town too, and I don't think I have strong reads on anyone else. I guess that's more than 3, oh well.
Okay. That line of thought on Plowshares/Rhand makes me feel a bit better - here's the post I was writing when I saw your 165, but it made me so uneasy because it did not feel genuine to me:
NotVoxx is town.
Sir Chris is probably town.
Vaimes is probbbbably town, but less certain.
I don't have a concrete read on Tom yet - it feels a bit like he's trying to emulate the scattershottedness (that's a word, shh) that had him pretty widely town-read in Predator. Given the backlash against that post-game it makes me raise an eyebrow a bit because I struggle to see the town motivation for doing that - shows a certain kind of self-awareness disguising itself as a lack of self-awareness.
Trying to decide if I want to lynch Iso or Plowshares.
Iso's bravado and accusation of chainsawing does not read genuine at all. This isn't to say that Iso doesn't have a certain bravado as town at times, but it reads as a much more genuine kind of energy.
Plowshare's Rhand vote makes my skin crawl. Feels slimy and opportunistic.
~Fake edit due to refresh~ Sigh. You're scum this game, Cyan, aren't you? This makes me sad.
I'm trying to figure out what I think about TS' #162. My gut feeling is TS rolled scum and is blatantly trying to appease an active, aggressive player, but it's weak.
Your name is filling me with regret, because ctrl+F'ing to find things I need to respond to is failing me massively.
But while I'm talking at you - gun to your head, is Tordeck town, or scum, and why?
Are you also up when you shouldn't be?
I feel similarly about Mztr's 160. These posts both come across to me as 'tell us why we should vote Tom so that we can justify doing so'.
Aren't I always?
Could you re-read Iso (iso Iso?), and explain your town read to me concisely, if it holds true after the read through?
I was just going to get to that, because I remembered Nacho also asked me for my Iso read.
I, uh. Thought he claimed a town PR.
I'm hesitant to scumread Iso for going after tom, because. If Iso is such a top player, why would he go for what everyone considers to be a super easy target?
He was in Predator Mafia where he didn't really participate. S.C. tried to pick up his spirits and I went after Chris for throwing softballs at Cyan. I like this active Cyan much better than the non-existent one from Predator.
@Voxx-That would be pretty weak. Try to think of other motivations (like the one I posted above).
Then you aren't reading closely. I already told Iso that there isn't a great case against Tom. WHy would I want to justify voting for someone I don't currently think is scum? Your characterization of me doesn't jibe with what I'm written man.
I caught you early in that game because your attack on DCIII made absolutely no sense based on the new information you were seeing, just like your attack on Tom here makes absolutely no sense based on what he's posting. The idea that I am supposed to townread you this game because your tone is better than your tone in an uncharacteristically weak scumgame is laughable; I much prefer to read players by the strength of their cases and how they form reads on people, and you're fitting a scum narrative to Tom's posting as opposed to actually reading him. That makes you scum.
@Voxx: don't you think that mentioning scumchat is too ballsy for scum!Tom?
It's possible that's the motivation, sure!
Which is why I'm not voting you. It just pinged me as feeling off in my initial read through.
If you had a daykill, and you either had to fire right now, or die yourself, who would you target, and why?
Maybe? But it just feels like he's trying to mimic his previous playstyle to me, rather than it being a genuine thought process. It's the vibe I got off Rodemy in Apocalypse mafia. Maybe it's nothing, but I don't want to ignore the feeling and write him off.
Oh?
Do tell. Are you just trying to make Iso make himself look worse then?
this is me
Ew. I didn't even consider that.
Tordeck: is in this game. Gun to my head, I probably get shot while waffling. I don't know.
I kind of like the attitude here, though. It's suitably paranoid in a towny way, kind of orienting yourself around "okay these are the guys I have to figure out to win the game" as an anchor? I mean he does go "but yeah I'll totally switch my vote later, lol". But eh, I think that just looks scummy but it's not actually a scum thing. But, really, I have nearly zero conviction with a Tordeck read. Magic 8-ball says, "ask again later."
A question for your question, Voxx. I know you don't do things carelessly or without reason. So, about that naked "NotVoxx is town" thing. I believe you would believe you could pocket me with a hard townread as scum. But I also believe that you believe that I would immediately suspect such a blatant move. But you did it anyway, and you did it right away instead of engaging me first. It was ivory-tower analysis. There were no bells and whistles to disarm or dazzle me. So you're town.
/poses dramatically
I am:
A) Brilliant
B) Deluded
C) Up way past my bedtime
D) All of the above
?
Also, tit for tat:
Divine Nacho's alignment for me.
On the other hand, I think all the people voting for him are town + Seppel? Whee. I'll look into that again Later.
I could see newbscum falling into the scumread-the-new-person trap, but. Yeah.
Did you miss the part where Seppel claimed Neutral, or?
TappingStones feels like he's trying to UTR.
Unvote
Vote: TappingStones
I will leave my vote on him literally until he dies if his response to this is more than 50% snark.
Plowshares. Iso and Rhand are also interesting. Plowshares jumped onto Rhand without doing any of his own leg work, it didn't feel right to me. Iso I spoke of briefly, finally I didn't buy Rhand's "word usage" argument but he's gotten out from under it with later posts.
Iso says he has a case. He has failed to make it. I'm holding him to that. Are you not interested to see what he's talking about?
But why would you say I'm looking for a reason to vote Tom when I've ALREADY stated that there isn't a strong case for Tom? Seems a bit manufactured. I mean at least use my own words against me man, not things I said the opposite of.
The reason I voted Iso right away is he didn't give a clear reason why he voted for Tom and I have to admit I am pretty much over the 'vote and then walk away' mentality that Iso has displayed over how many games. Since then he has gave a list of hilarious answers to questions and has given the softest meta defense I have seen in awhile. I don't know what the scum motivation is here, but I don't see the town one either and that's a problem. He has hosted Tom's first two games and should know that Tom can be a little let's call it... silly at times in how he logics out a game, and so his first move is to aggressively pursue him while not bothering to explain himself? It's not a good move. If Iso is town he needs to be more of a team player, lose the ego, and play the game right. Dude expects me to believe that he thinks I hard defended a buddy from him and that I'm next which makes no sense in any reality in which you've witnessed my scum game.
Also I have found in my experience that people screw themselves over looking at narrowly defined things like 'what does scum gain from this action?' That's just not a good scum approach, as what they gain is you asking that question. Playing scum is really simple. Kill town, don't die, do anything to make that happen. Scum don't need a giant points system to win.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
What is UTR?
snark snark snark snark snark
Feel free to leave your vote on me the entire game Vaimes! It would be interesting to see you play "voteless".
i dont think chris' facade has cracked. he has shown us only what he wants us to see.
this is part of what made me scumread him in predator. hes calculating. but i think thats just chris, or at least the way chris plays mafia.
and yes, i intend on scum hunting. that is what i was trying to do by "bursting into the thread like the Kool-Aid Man and poking [you] with a stick" (which is, btw, one of my favorite sentences ever. <3 antivoxx)
that said, i actually think youre town now. im not Cyan levels of sure, but yeah.
i just dont think a scum iso comes at me like that. you would put in the work and bury me. i say scummy ***** all the time, if you wanted to push a mislynch you know full well ill leave an opening.
@pengo i dont care enough about your meta to start reading old games you were in.
the only other question is why did i bring up scum chat.
i was trying to show cyan that he shouldnt be townclearing people yet (which he shouldnt have been. it was too early) using myself as an example. townreading me was ridiculous at that point.
@tordeck you say seppel is one of the 4 best players in this game. what is his great skill other than being a complete enigma?
@seppel dont just follow cyan. youre apparently a great mafia player. do a cool trick.
@notvoxx you are currently the townier of the voxxici. still holding out hope that the universe makes sense and you are on different teams.
"*****goblin" lol. i read that post on a smokebreak at work earlier and almost set my beard on fire laughing.
@cyan do you really have so much confidence in your ability to read chris? like, how would scum chris have been different this game? you said you have some sort of mystical reason, but that doesnt do it for me.
@chris its not that i WANT to scumread you. i like you.
but i always do seem to, dont i?
@plowshares come make me remember who you are.
Oooh, inclined as in you tend to do so, I see what you meant now. Okay you said that a little weird, I understand now.
Also I have my ideas about what Cyan is talking about, but I don't think its a simple A to B to C thought process from Cyan, but I'll let him play in his sandbox for a bit, he's active I don't need to go far to question him about things.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
It's a very good scum approach if they do something that garners a lot of attention and could possibly end up killing them?
You can't mislynch anyone if you're dead.
it makes me feel all prickly
You assume a Scum!Iso believed this was going to be his downfall when he started this adventure. Can you explain why you think this is a reasonable thought to have? Iso votes Tom, a new player who he knows makes a fool of himself, and goes from there. Also Iso made the counter point to this himself: he played as scum trying not to be 'hulk smash' recently and he was skewered for it. A scum Iso should have no expectation to survive this game unless he tries desperately to replicate his town game. This isn't looking for a black hat in a sea of white, Vaimes, it is comparing two very close shades of grey and seeing it if adds up. Did you read Vanillaville? It didn't end well for Scum Iso day one. I am trying to determine if this is the true town Iso vigor or if he is trying to fake such vigor and survive. I don't see what other avenue he has as scum this game. Do you believe a scum Iso would try to fade into the background with this player list? I don't feel as if you have thought this through very well Vaimes, or are you completely unfamiliar with Iso?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I have not read Vanillaville.
He dropped the meta gauntlet three pages into the game Vaimes. He's just oozing with fake self-righteousness as far as I am concerned. Iso could have responded to me in a town iso way that I would have liked, but he hasn't really done that. He has been most unhelpful so far.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Oh right, I forgot. Then he probably is what he claimed.
makes the prickles go away.
also dont just keep your vote on tapping. hes gonna be snarky. i dont think its alignment indicative.
wait for the blowup and form a read then.
I feel like cuddling atm.
...How would you know?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player