@Wildfire: I didn't feel the need to announce that I was town, I just announced that I was town. I had no inherent motivation in doing so, just felt like it and thus did.
@Nachos: I read your post and can kinda understand your logic, I'm just surprised by the speed at which we had players "claiming".
@Gentleman Johnny: Not sure if the 'Who are you? (Name change)?' was directed at me, but I'll answer anyway so everyone knows.
Hi, I'm new here. Not to MTGS, but to Mafia. This will be my second game, my first is still ongoing on another site (Hi Nachos ) I know most of you from reading through the list of recommended games Iso referred me to when I first approached him about getting into Mafia, and I look forward to playing with all of you
@Wildfire: I didn't feel the need to announce that I was town, I just announced that I was town. I had no inherent motivation in doing so, just felt like it and thus did.
Have you been in a game where someone else has done the same? If so, what was your reaction?
If not, how do you feel about the practice in general?
I mean, clearly you did it, but if you didn't think about it before, can you think about it now?
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Yes, actually. Looking at his recently-completed games, this isn't something he's done as either alignment. And he's been town in his most-recent handful so it's not like he has a reason to be excited to "finally" be town.
Nothing about his post suggested excitement at "finally" being town. He stated that he was town instead of confirming like everyone else. In doing so, he stuck out. I expected scum to vote him for it because it's an easy way to look like you are posting content without considering that there is more town than scum motivation to draw attention to himself early in the game.
I am a town governor. I can overturn a lynch within a day; this means that my presence can be proven by a twilight period (I assume?); if j decide to overturn the lynch, there will be a no lynch. I am claiming now because there are three ways that governor can be played effectively IMO:
1) Ignore the power, draw the kill - seems the most reasonable option, but I'm not really too concerned about getting shot
2) Try to overturn a lynch where scum are quickhammering - Bad option since it can only be done in MyLo and I don't really expect to live that long - if I do end up in MyLo, will still be taking away scum's ability to quickhammer which is useful enough.
3) Claim outright, announce townreads beforehand- I plan to be extremely transparent with my townreads and who I'm protecting and will be reasonable enough in discussing reasoning. This means that scum, for the most part, won't be able to push through terrible mislynches, it means I have a little extra power in keeping the town on track, and it means that you should reasonably be able to slot me as town since my power is confirmable and far too powerful in scum hands (it would be far more beneficial for me to govern scumbuddies or random townies than it would be for me to play for towncred, especially jn a two scumteam game).
I'm on my phone and walking now, will expand more on this if needed later.
Ditto. Unless I am missing what a Governor does, I don't see why this was necessary.
My instinct, however, is to believe unpressured and early claims of power roles, notwithstanding that I think it's usually a bad idea. So:
Vote: Xyre for voting someone who is probably not scum.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think he's running a gambit badly. Since I doubt Iso would put in a doctor who can block all kills aimed at his target each night (instead of just one), since that could throw the game hopelessly out of wack, claiming an investigative role is asking to get murdered tonight if it's true. Hence, I don't think it's true.
I assume if he's alive tomorrow morning, he's going to say "oh I got roleblocked soz" and we'll be in the same position we're in right now. So I'd sooner shake him upside-down and see if scum tells start falling out.
I don't like GJ's plan, but I do understand his reasoning and think that it's genuine.
I don't really have any clear reads at the moment.
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Does your vote for Nachomamma8 have anything to do with his declaration that he was town?
Yes, actually. Looking at his recently-completed games, this isn't something he's done as either alignment. And he's been town in his most-recent handful so it's not like he has a reason to be excited to "finally" be town.
Explain why you said "you know what you did."
Claim: sunglasses coolpizza. Town rodemy.
Vote: Sepple. Cuz Seppel ♡♡
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I am a town governor. Town governor prevents players from getting lynched during the day, If someone is lynched during the day and I want to stop their lynch, they won't be flipped and the game will go to night.
The advantage of claiming this power is that I actually get to use it as town. There is no utility in disagreeing with a lynch and having the town no lynch as a result. There is utility in vocally disagreeing with a lynch beforehand and having the power to push the town to no lynch instead.
The other advantage of this claim is that my power is too powerful in scum hands for me to be scum; if I were actually scum, the benefit of forcing town to take two days to lynch scum suspects and essentially giving both teams double kills when I want to or simply making all scumbuddies one-shot unlynchable.
@Wildfire:
I have been in a game where someone said they were town in the beginning of the game. I didn't react to them because I don't find it to be a huge deal and am currently wondering why you feel differently.
I feel the same about the practice in general as I do about people confirming with a slash as opposed to without a slash. Sometimes I feel like using a slash, sometimes I don't. Sometimes other people feel like using a slash, sometimes they don't.
I'm not sure what exactly you expect this thought exercise to produce.
FtR, I'm not counting the confirmation "i'm town" of evidence of anything whatsoever. I don't know where you're going with this, Wildfire, but it's gonna need a better argument.
My vote is RVS, or at least RVS-adjacent. If half the game came in right now in favor of lynching him for it, I'd take my vote off. However, I would like to hear from Nacho on the subject, as I think it could provide some insight.
Question for you: You appear critical of GJ's plan and his motivation behind it. Do you believe this to be scum-motivated? If yes, why are you voting another player?
No, it doesn't tell us anything about his alignment either way. I remember why he does it now; it simply quick starts the game.
I'm voting another player simply to make the mod do more work.
I am a town governor. I can overturn a lynch within a day; this means that my presence can be proven by a twilight period (I assume?); if j decide to overturn the lynch, there will be a no lynch. I am claiming now because there are three ways that governor can be played effectively IMO:
1) Ignore the power, draw the kill - seems the most reasonable option, but I'm not really too concerned about getting shot
2) Try to overturn a lynch where scum are quickhammering - Bad option since it can only be done in MyLo and I don't really expect to live that long - if I do end up in MyLo, will still be taking away scum's ability to quickhammer which is useful enough.
3) Claim outright, announce townreads beforehand- I plan to be extremely transparent with my townreads and who I'm protecting and will be reasonable enough in discussing reasoning. This means that scum, for the most part, won't be able to push through terrible mislynches, it means I have a little extra power in keeping the town on track, and it means that you should reasonably be able to slot me as town since my power is confirmable and far too powerful in scum hands (it would be far more beneficial for me to govern scumbuddies or random townies than it would be for me to play for towncred, especially jn a two scumteam game).
I'm on my phone and walking now, will expand more on this if needed later.
Cool, we should just confirm this and get it out of the way.
Why would you claim investigative roles in your first post?
And @whomever else asked the same question...
because WIFOM.
Xyre's posts are gross. Anybody who is suspicious of GJ's "no lynch" plan is being dumb. OB's post is too tryhard and also I'm racist against Oceans that are Black.
Why would you claim investigative roles in your first post?
And @whomever else asked the same question...
because WIFOM.
Xyre's posts are gross. Anybody who is suspicious of GJ's "no lynch" plan is being dumb. OB's post is too tryhard and also I'm racist against Oceans that are Black.
I cannot believe that a sober town would make that statement unless they gave no *****s about the game right now. Unvote, Vote Imabusinessman
Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both.
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It is a super town role, for reasons stated. Scum being able to mess with the lynch is seriously ridiculous, and Nacho wouldn't false claim a role that can easily be proved.
Town governor. Governor does not sound like a town role.... whatsoever.
Nor does it sound conducive to town.
Well, it sure as hell isn't a mafia role, sooo...
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So, this a reusable Governor's ability? I thought those kind of things were usually 1-shot.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Why would you claim investigative roles in your first post?
And @whomever else asked the same question...
because WIFOM.
Xyre's posts are gross. Anybody who is suspicious of GJ's "no lynch" plan is being dumb. OB's post is too tryhard and also I'm racist against Oceans that are Black.
I cannot believe that a sober town would make that statement unless they gave no *****s about the game right now. Unvote, Vote Imabusinessman
Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both.
The town directed kill that I was referring to is the lynch, Tom. You're correct that my role isn't strong if the town is playing well; its major strength in my opinion is that it's too strong to be scum, especially in a two-scum game. Why are you so laid back this game? You were much more aggressive in Predator Mafia.
Rodemy, town governor is a role that exists. Would you like me to quote an MS wiki article to prove it or would you rather me try to find an MTGS game with it?
Xyre, I see where you're coming from with the business vote but not really sure I think he is scum. The main motivation of his play seems to be shot but that seems to very distinctly be a town move more than a scum move.
I've seen previous games where someone announced they were town, and when called out on it, explained that they had been scum several times recently and were excited to finally be town. I see no such reasoning here.
Would you mind elaborating on why, if you think scum would be more likely to call out Nacho's announcement than town, you still felt it better to vote Jobie, when his only post was literally "Vote X because RVS"?
I don't fully understand your first paragraph. You saw no such reasoning here so you assumed that that was his reason anyways?
Yeah, I mind elaborating. It is giving me some very interesting reactions - like yours and Axelrod's. I'm a little more interested in hearing Axelrod's fixation with it over yours for a couple of reasons.
However, don't really think Gentleman Johnny is scum despite pushing his crazy-town case; he's putting himself out there quite a bit by pushing said crazy-town case and I don't actually believe that him as scum believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching, so.
I don't think Johnny believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching. I think he's using it as an excuse to provide minimal content which has scum motive at least early in the game. It also lets him get into debates about the setup which is tangential to scumhunting. If on the off-chance, town buys the plan that'd just be an added bonus.
Gentleman Johnny is putting himself out there as someone with no intention of scum hunting. Instead he claims he wants more setup info, which is as much a boon to the scum teams as it is to the town. I don't like this no lynch plan.
This is familiar some how. Have you done this before, GJ?
I'll vote Axelrod for no reason.
While I obviously agree with this, this is a rehash of what I just said about Gentleman Johnny whilst taking an ambiguous stance about his alignment. What is your read on him?
Putting aside the GJ vote. What exactly made Jobie a better vote than Wildfire for you there? I don't get it.
Well, it sucks that you don't get it. Why is my vote on Jobie such a concern for you? I doubly dislike this post because Wildfire asked me the same question and you just repeated what he said without waiting for me to respond. It looks to me like you are trying to sew some "interactive tells" to look at later. Perhaps to the tune of "OceanBlack voted Jobie over Wildfire, look at this if Wildfire flips scum" or "look at this if Jobie flips scum." A vote based off of a single post seems like an odd obsession to have when there has been a lot of content produced both by me and others. Mind explaining for the class why you care so much about that vote?
Xyre's posts are gross. Anybody who is suspicious of GJ's "no lynch" plan is being dumb. OB's post is too tryhard and also I'm racist against Oceans that are Black.
Yeah, I'm trying hard, I've stretched a bit for reasoning to drive the game forward. Would you rather we sit on our asses?
I cannot believe that a sober town would make that statement unless they gave no *****s about the game right now. Unvote, Vote Imabusinessman
Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both.
Can you explain exactly what your issue is with Imabusinessman's post? I don't follow what part of the post you are referring to.
OceanBlack - I see your point wrt Gentleman Johnny, thanks for the clarification.
What do you think of Tom?
He's escaped my notice thus far but reading his posts, I don't like the very minimal amount of scumhunting he did. His first post is non-serious, his second post is a theory discussion with you and the third is maybe the start of scumhunting. I'd like to see how he develops that line of reasoning but I'm leaning scum.
I think he's running a gambit badly. Since I doubt Iso would put in a doctor who can block all kills aimed at his target each night (instead of just one), since that could throw the game hopelessly out of wack, claiming an investigative role is asking to get murdered tonight if it's true. Hence, I don't think it's true.
I assume if he's alive tomorrow morning, he's going to say "oh I got roleblocked soz" and we'll be in the same position we're in right now. So I'd sooner shake him upside-down and see if scum tells start falling out.
I dislike how you are kind of playing both sides here. You say you have voted the claimed cop role because you think it's some kind of gambit. Because if he's telling the truth he's just going to get killed. Except, of course, he could be protected, so you kind of head that idea off by suggesting that both scum groups would try to kill him, and assume any doctor role wouldn't protect against that, so it's still a bad idea. And then, if he doesn't die, you are already assuming he'll claim RB (which, gee, if the scum have a RBer, they could, in fact, totally RB him) and, therefore he won't be able to "prove it" and is still scum.
Like. you have created a no-win situation here based on the (very faulty) premise, that no one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue. Which you ought to know just isn't the case.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I've seen previous games where someone announced they were town, and when called out on it, explained that they had been scum several times recently and were excited to finally be town. I see no such reasoning here.
Would you mind elaborating on why, if you think scum would be more likely to call out Nacho's announcement than town, you still felt it better to vote Jobie, when his only post was literally "Vote X because RVS"?
I don't fully understand your first paragraph. You saw no such reasoning here so you assumed that that was his reason anyways?
Yeah, I mind elaborating. It is giving me some very interesting reactions - like yours and Axelrod's. I'm a little more interested in hearing Axelrod's fixation with it over yours for a couple of reasons.
I dont like that bolded part. What reactions are you referring to? Wildfire is still discussing it, but mainly with you, and Axelrod has moved on to other topics. I would like for you to elaborate on what it is you've seen that I'm apparently missing.
Yeah, I mind elaborating. It is giving me some very interesting reactions - like yours and Axelrod's. I'm a little more interested in hearing Axelrod's fixation with it over yours for a couple of reasons.
Putting aside the GJ vote. What exactly made Jobie a better vote than Wildfire for you there? I don't get it.
Well, it sucks that you don't get it. Why is my vote on Jobie such a concern for you?
Um, are we playing a game of mafia? What do you even mean "why is my vote a concern?" Asking people to explain why they do what they do is the literal name of the game. You seem kind of hostile too.
I doubly dislike this post because Wildfire asked me the same question and you just repeated what he said without waiting for me to respond.
Well, believe it or not I didn't see what Wildfire posted. I was doing my own thing.
It looks to me like you are trying to sew some "interactive tells" to look at later. Perhaps to the tune of "OceanBlack voted Jobie over Wildfire, look at this if Wildfire flips scum" or "look at this if Jobie flips scum." A vote based off of a single post seems like an odd obsession to have when there has been a lot of content produced both by me and others. Mind explaining for the class why you care so much about that vote?
That's quite the conspiracy theory you have come up with there based on completely nothing. And I'll just note, you still haven't actually answered the question. Except to imply (if I am reading correctly) that you were "stretching" to drive the game forward.
Let me explain it better, if you really can't understand why someone would ask you this. Jobie made one post. A clearly labeled RVS vote post. Basically contentless. This is very common for opening posts of the game. I would not care that you voted him for it normally. I would assume it was an equally meaningless RVS vote. Except YOU implied that it wasn't. You basically said there was something that made you want to vote Jobie over the other person. You then explained why you were suspicious of the other person, but never said about Jobie.
So, what was it? That's pretty straightforward. It doesn't require any conspiracy theories to understand.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
The town directed kill that I was referring to is the lynch, Tom. You're correct that my role isn't strong if the town is playing well; its major strength in my opinion is that it's too strong to be scum, especially in a two-scum game. Why are you so laid back this game? You were much more aggressive in Predator Mafia.
yes, it was quite obvious you were referring to the lynch. i still insist its only beneficial to town if we get it right.
and even then, only if YOU agree with it apparently.
and yeah, im saying less this game so far. i came strong out of the gates last game due to not understanding rvs. i got some really good advice about letting other people answer questions. i dont really care that my posting style got me killed/upset jobie, but i do care about figuring out who is scum. i already know what i am, i need to learn what everyone else is.
how do you feel about 25% of the game already stating that your claim was dumb?
also, ive been led to believe that gaming the setup is a losing proposition, but does anyone think that the werewolf team may have the ability to recruit/infect/whatever you want to call it?
that possibility really makes me hate the proposition of not lynching (be it by getting on GJ's no lynch wagon or by nacho blocking the lynch)
The best way to form reads is proactively. The best way to get others to produce content is by producing content yourself.
Not answering other's questions is good and well, but electing instead to do nothing is a pretty poor compromise.
I expected blowback from people saying my claim is stupid; "early claims are bad" is a pretty common line of thought, but no one's actually stated why they felt my claim was bad, so my viewpoint on it hasn't really changed. Do you think my claim was bad?
I also understand you dislike the use of my power in general, but do you think my claim is more likely to come from scum or town? Why?
Um, are we playing a game of mafia? What do you even mean "why is my vote a concern?" Asking people to explain why they do what they do is the literal name of the game. You seem kind of hostile too.
All questions aren't equal. You can glean alignment relevant information based on the kind of questions that people ask and what they choose to focus on. I found your focus strange.
Let me explain it better, if you really can't understand why someone would ask you this. Jobie made one post. A clearly labeled RVS vote post. Basically contentless. This is very common for opening posts of the game. I would not care that you voted him for it normally. I would assume it was an equally meaningless RVS vote. Except YOU implied that it wasn't. You basically said there was something that made you want to vote Jobie over the other person. You then explained why you were suspicious of the other person, but never said about Jobie.
So, what was it? That's pretty straightforward. It doesn't require any conspiracy theories to understand.
I disagree that Jobie's post was null and I deliberately phrased my first post in a way to make it clear that I wasn't RVS voting Jobie. I never RVS vote but in the past, people tended to assume that my early naked votes were RVS so I often had to clarify that all my votes were serious.
The fact that Jobie chose to "clearly label" his vote as RVS is itself a minor scumtell. He's trying to avoid responsibility for casting the vote by taking an overly neutral stance. There are several useful things he could have done with his first post in the game. He could have voted someone he knew in order to facilitate an interaction that would help him read them. He could have commented on the only notable thing that happened thus far in the game (Nacho saying he's town rather than just confirming). He could have voted without clarifying that it was RVS thus instigating queries and discussion to push the game forward. He did none of that and chose the safest play that a player could possibly make: an RVS post with clear LABEL tacked on suggesting to us all that that was an RVS vote and he's not to blame for any blowback or discussion that could possibly result from it. That looks like squirmy scum trying to fly under the radar.
The town directed kill that I was referring to is the lynch, Tom. You're correct that my role isn't strong if the town is playing well; its major strength in my opinion is that it's too strong to be scum, especially in a two-scum game. Why are you so laid back this game? You were much more aggressive in Predator Mafia.
Rodemy, town governor is a role that exists. Would you like me to quote an MS wiki article to prove it or would you rather me try to find an MTGS game with it?
Xyre, I see where you're coming from with the business vote but not really sure I think he is scum. The main motivation of his play seems to be shot but that seems to very distinctly be a town move more than a scum move.
Getting a strong town read from Nacho. Great point about Tom. Tom was adamant that he would not change his style but he does come across much more careful and less chatty than he was in his last game.
OceanBlack - I see your point wrt Gentleman Johnny, thanks for the clarification.
What do you think of Tom?
He's escaped my notice thus far but reading his posts, I don't like the very minimal amount of scumhunting he did. His first post is non-serious, his second post is a theory discussion with you and the third is maybe the start of scumhunting. I'd like to see how he develops that line of reasoning but I'm leaning scum.
Check out Day one of Tom's last completed game Predator Mafia. He was the town doctor and spammed the thread until he was day killed by the neutral.
The best way to form reads is proactively. The best way to get others to produce content is by producing content yourself.
Not answering other's questions is good and well, but electing instead to do nothing is a pretty poor compromise.
I expected blowback from people saying my claim is stupid; "early claims are bad" is a pretty common line of thought, but no one's actually stated why they felt my claim was bad, so my viewpoint on it hasn't really changed. Do you think my claim was bad?
I also understand you dislike the use of my power in general, but do you think my claim is more likely to come from scum or town? Why?
What do you think of Xyre?
forming reads proactively? now i'm really worried about your power. if you arent forming your reads reactively, what the hell are you doing?
what questions have i missed answering?
i dont have a particular read on you either way. if i had to guess now, i would say town thats likely to muck up the game. but i also think you might be mayor of avabruck
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
I expected blowback from people saying my claim is stupid; "early claims are bad" is a pretty common line of thought, but no one's actually stated why they felt my claim was bad, so my viewpoint on it hasn't really changed. Do you think my claim was bad?
I didn't delve into why I thought your claim was bad because I think you're town and you've already claimed so we can't undo the claim. Lecturing you over the badness of it would have been an unproductive conversation in lieu of other more interesting things.
If you do want to know, here are two reasons I disagree with your claim:
1. You missed a chance to screw over the scumteam at LYLO. You had a powerful role that could single-handedly snatch victory for town from the jaws of defeat. There is no reason to expect you'd be nightkilled over anybody else and if you are, no big deal, we can move on.
2. When a player is lynched, they can often have telling reactions in twilight before the mod closes the thread if they believe that they are irrevocably lynched and have been eliminated from the game. Town may frantically put together a list of reads and demand that their scumspects be lynched. Scum may admit to being scum and congratulate us on a good lynch. By claiming your role, you are making it so that everyone still plays as if they're not already dead which takes away this valuable little time that you could have used to scumhunt and overturn town lynches.
I disagree that the questionable benefits from you trying to wield more influence on the town by threatening to overturn lynches on your townreads outweigh the huge benefits that you threw away.
Getting a strong town read from Nacho. Great point about Tom. Tom was adamant that he would not change his style but he does come across much more careful and less chatty than he was in his last game.
@Tom-Why the change of tone?
ha! love the flashback!
dont worry, my tone is the same. just the volume of posts is different.
i did say that part of the reason for my "spamming" was because no one else was posting. this game is far more active. im doing more reading than typing. but never fear, i will spam again.
like what is it about Rodemy you don't like. I think it's weird you mention you don't like Rodemy as if you've mentioned him before, but you never have.
like what is it about Rodemy you don't like. I think it's weird you mention you don't like Rodemy as if you've mentioned him before, but you never have.
@NACHOMMA...
Can you "Governor" yourself?
great question to nacho. i wish i would have thought of it...
rodemy hasnt really said anything of note. just something about his "claim" of town rodemy. unsolicited and meaningless.
then he rvs votes, then changes to a real vote because of a claim that happened BEFORE his rvs vote.
I think he's running a gambit badly. Since I doubt Iso would put in a doctor who can block all kills aimed at his target each night (instead of just one), since that could throw the game hopelessly out of wack, claiming an investigative role is asking to get murdered tonight if it's true. Hence, I don't think it's true.
I assume if he's alive tomorrow morning, he's going to say "oh I got roleblocked soz" and we'll be in the same position we're in right now. So I'd sooner shake him upside-down and see if scum tells start falling out.
I dislike how you are kind of playing both sides here. You say you have voted the claimed cop role because you think it's some kind of gambit. Because if he's telling the truth he's just going to get killed. Except, of course, he could be protected, so you kind of head that idea off by suggesting that both scum groups would try to kill him, and assume any doctor role wouldn't protect against that, so it's still a bad idea. And then, if he doesn't die, you are already assuming he'll claim RB (which, gee, if the scum have a RBer, they could, in fact, totally RB him) and, therefore he won't be able to "prove it" and is still scum.
Like. you have created a no-win situation here based on the (very faulty) premise, that no one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue. Which you ought to know just isn't the case.
I'm not claiming no-one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue; I'm claiming that I disbelieve such claims on principal because they usually feel like a ploy. Furthermore, if he's telling the truth, he's basically guaranteed to create no value in the game and either get murdered by the mafia, roleblocked and left for us to kill to clear the WIFOM, or (since we have two mafias) maybe both. He's no longer worth much of anything; all he does is generate confusion. Hence I'll treat him like any other suspicious player and vote for him until a better candidate appears.
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work.
I just assume some of these things go without saying. For example, Necarg is a classic lurking scum who upon being cited for making a no-content post by me instantly threw out a vote on an obvious target without more than his disbelief to explain it. Business's #64 actually made me feel slightly better about him, with its utter lack of guilelessness, and Necarg pouncing on it makes me feel like he just wanted a reason. I'll try to be less, uh, deadpan.
I don't really follow or understand any of Tomsloger's posts.
what are you having trouble with? they all make perfect sense to me
also, this probably doesnt matter but why did you change the color of this post to black?
yes, it was quite obvious you were referring to the lynch. i still insist its only beneficial to town if we get it right.
and even then, only if YOU agree with it apparently.
and yeah, im saying less this game so far. i came strong out of the gates last game due to not understanding rvs. i got some really good advice about letting other people answer questions. i dont really care that my posting style got me killed/upset jobie, but i do care about figuring out who is scum. i already know what i am, i need to learn what everyone else is.
how do you feel about 25% of the game already stating that your claim was dumb?
also, ive been led to believe that gaming the setup is a losing proposition, but does anyone think that the werewolf team may have the ability to recruit/infect/whatever you want to call it?
that possibility really makes me hate the proposition of not lynching (be it by getting on GJ's no lynch wagon or by nacho blocking the lynch)
forming reads proactively? now i'm really worried about your power. if you arent forming your reads reactively, what the hell are you doing?
what questions have i missed answering?
i dont have a particular read on you either way. if i had to guess now, i would say town thats likely to muck up the game. but i also think you might be mayor of avabruck
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
dont worry, my tone is the same. just the volume of posts is different.
i did say that part of the reason for my "spamming" was because no one else was posting. this game is far more active. im doing more reading than typing. but never fear, i will spam again.
great question to nacho. i wish i would have thought of it...
rodemy hasnt really said anything of note. just something about his "claim" of town rodemy. unsolicited and meaningless.
then he rvs votes, then changes to a real vote because of a claim that happened BEFORE his rvs vote.
like what is it about Rodemy you don't like. I think it's weird you mention you don't like Rodemy as if you've mentioned him before, but you never have.
@NACHOMMA...
Can you "Governor" yourself?
great question to nacho. i wish i would have thought of it...
rodemy hasnt really said anything of note. just something about his "claim" of town rodemy. unsolicited and meaningless.
then he rvs votes, then changes to a real vote because of a claim that happened BEFORE his rvs vote.
would you like to answer my question now?
Rodemy only has a phone. And has a life brah. Get off ma dick ♡
Also, sunglasses coolpizza was a profile i made for a mafia game long ago, i meant to come out and say it was me, but alas, life.
First post was to just get in there. In fact, there was a question there i kind of wanted answered.. sooo could it please be answered?
Also: i am pretty sure not everyone is in this game yet, so if you wanna vote me based on post count and quality, then you sir are being a scum. Vote stays, i wanna see where this governor thing goes.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Tom: My argument is that I'm town because my role is too powerful for scum; the power to force town to use multiple lynches in an attempt to kill my scumbuddies is extremely overpowered. Do you disagree with that?
Why are you scum reading iamabusinessman?
I don't really understand why or how Rodemy saying he's town is different from me saying that I'm town at the beginning of the game.
Changing his RVS to a real vote seems to be a result of him reading the game.
If you do want to know, here are two reasons I disagree with your claim:
1. You missed a chance to screw over the scumteam at LYLO. You had a powerful role that could single-handedly snatch victory for town from the jaws of defeat. There is no reason to expect you'd be nightkilled over anybody else and if you are, no big deal, we can move on.
2. When a player is lynched, they can often have telling reactions in twilight before the mod closes the thread if they believe that they are irrevocably lynched and have been eliminated from the game. Town may frantically put together a list of reads and demand that their scumspects be lynched. Scum may admit to being scum and congratulate us on a good lynch. By claiming your role, you are making it so that everyone still plays as if they're not already dead which takes away this valuable little time that you could have used to scumhunt and overturn town lynches.
I disagree that the questionable benefits from you trying to wield more influence on the town by threatening to overturn lynches on your townreads outweigh the huge benefits that you threw away.
Thanks for the input.
I agree with you that there are more interesting things to do in this game. I'll probably bring thus up in post-game.
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The Family
@Gentleman Johnny: Not sure if the 'Who are you? (Name change)?' was directed at me, but I'll answer anyway so everyone knows.
Hi, I'm new here. Not to MTGS, but to Mafia. This will be my second game, my first is still ongoing on another site (Hi Nachos ) I know most of you from reading through the list of recommended games Iso referred me to when I first approached him about getting into Mafia, and I look forward to playing with all of you
Now back to business.
UNVOTE: Jobie
No point in leaving that there if we're already out of RVS.
Have you been in a game where someone else has done the same? If so, what was your reaction?
If not, how do you feel about the practice in general?
I mean, clearly you did it, but if you didn't think about it before, can you think about it now?
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Putting aside the GJ vote. What exactly made Jobie a better vote than Wildfire for you there? I don't get it.
I also don't get why you would claim this here. So could you explain that?
Ditto. Unless I am missing what a Governor does, I don't see why this was necessary.
My instinct, however, is to believe unpressured and early claims of power roles, notwithstanding that I think it's usually a bad idea. So:
Vote: Xyre for voting someone who is probably not scum.
I assume if he's alive tomorrow morning, he's going to say "oh I got roleblocked soz" and we'll be in the same position we're in right now. So I'd sooner shake him upside-down and see if scum tells start falling out.
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I don't like GJ's plan, but I do understand his reasoning and think that it's genuine.
I don't really have any clear reads at the moment.
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Explain why you said "you know what you did."
Claim: sunglasses coolpizza. Town rodemy.
Vote: Sepple. Cuz Seppel ♡♡
The advantage of claiming this power is that I actually get to use it as town. There is no utility in disagreeing with a lynch and having the town no lynch as a result. There is utility in vocally disagreeing with a lynch beforehand and having the power to push the town to no lynch instead.
The other advantage of this claim is that my power is too powerful in scum hands for me to be scum; if I were actually scum, the benefit of forcing town to take two days to lynch scum suspects and essentially giving both teams double kills when I want to or simply making all scumbuddies one-shot unlynchable.
I have been in a game where someone said they were town in the beginning of the game. I didn't react to them because I don't find it to be a huge deal and am currently wondering why you feel differently.
I feel the same about the practice in general as I do about people confirming with a slash as opposed to without a slash. Sometimes I feel like using a slash, sometimes I don't. Sometimes other people feel like using a slash, sometimes they don't.
I'm not sure what exactly you expect this thought exercise to produce.
Thanks for contributing, scum.
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No, it doesn't tell us anything about his alignment either way. I remember why he does it now; it simply quick starts the game.
I'm voting another player simply to make the mod do more work.
Cool, we should just confirm this and get it out of the way.
I'm keeping this quote for reasons.
And @whomever else asked the same question...
because WIFOM.
Xyre's posts are gross. Anybody who is suspicious of GJ's "no lynch" plan is being dumb. OB's post is too tryhard and also I'm racist against Oceans that are Black.
this is true basically only if we get the kill right. a town directed kill of town is pretty directly not beneficial.
thats my problem with your claim and stated reason for claiming. your power, if real, is only any good if you know more than the rest of us.
Town governor. Governor does not sound like a town role.... whatsoever.
Nor does it sound conducive to town.
Ergo
[B]unvote vote nacho [\b]
I cannot believe that a sober town would make that statement unless they gave no *****s about the game right now.
Unvote, Vote Imabusinessman
Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both.
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It is a super town role, for reasons stated. Scum being able to mess with the lynch is seriously ridiculous, and Nacho wouldn't false claim a role that can easily be proved.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well, it sure as hell isn't a mafia role, sooo...
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Unvote, Vote Necarg
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Rodemy, town governor is a role that exists. Would you like me to quote an MS wiki article to prove it or would you rather me try to find an MTGS game with it?
Xyre, I see where you're coming from with the business vote but not really sure I think he is scum. The main motivation of his play seems to be shot but that seems to very distinctly be a town move more than a scum move.
It is.
I don't fully understand your first paragraph. You saw no such reasoning here so you assumed that that was his reason anyways?
Yeah, I mind elaborating. It is giving me some very interesting reactions - like yours and Axelrod's. I'm a little more interested in hearing Axelrod's fixation with it over yours for a couple of reasons.
I don't think Johnny believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching. I think he's using it as an excuse to provide minimal content which has scum motive at least early in the game. It also lets him get into debates about the setup which is tangential to scumhunting. If on the off-chance, town buys the plan that'd just be an added bonus.
While I obviously agree with this, this is a rehash of what I just said about Gentleman Johnny whilst taking an ambiguous stance about his alignment. What is your read on him?
Well, it sucks that you don't get it. Why is my vote on Jobie such a concern for you? I doubly dislike this post because Wildfire asked me the same question and you just repeated what he said without waiting for me to respond. It looks to me like you are trying to sew some "interactive tells" to look at later. Perhaps to the tune of "OceanBlack voted Jobie over Wildfire, look at this if Wildfire flips scum" or "look at this if Jobie flips scum." A vote based off of a single post seems like an odd obsession to have when there has been a lot of content produced both by me and others. Mind explaining for the class why you care so much about that vote?
Yeah, I'm trying hard, I've stretched a bit for reasoning to drive the game forward. Would you rather we sit on our asses?
Can you explain exactly what your issue is with Imabusinessman's post? I don't follow what part of the post you are referring to.
--
Nacho's claim was dumb but town.
What do you think of Tom?
"Scum of the Earth"
The Family
He's escaped my notice thus far but reading his posts, I don't like the very minimal amount of scumhunting he did. His first post is non-serious, his second post is a theory discussion with you and the third is maybe the start of scumhunting. I'd like to see how he develops that line of reasoning but I'm leaning scum.
I dislike how you are kind of playing both sides here. You say you have voted the claimed cop role because you think it's some kind of gambit. Because if he's telling the truth he's just going to get killed. Except, of course, he could be protected, so you kind of head that idea off by suggesting that both scum groups would try to kill him, and assume any doctor role wouldn't protect against that, so it's still a bad idea. And then, if he doesn't die, you are already assuming he'll claim RB (which, gee, if the scum have a RBer, they could, in fact, totally RB him) and, therefore he won't be able to "prove it" and is still scum.
Like. you have created a no-win situation here based on the (very faulty) premise, that no one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue. Which you ought to know just isn't the case.
I dont like that bolded part. What reactions are you referring to? Wildfire is still discussing it, but mainly with you, and Axelrod has moved on to other topics. I would like for you to elaborate on what it is you've seen that I'm apparently missing.
Fixation?
Um, are we playing a game of mafia? What do you even mean "why is my vote a concern?" Asking people to explain why they do what they do is the literal name of the game. You seem kind of hostile too.
Well, believe it or not I didn't see what Wildfire posted. I was doing my own thing.
That's quite the conspiracy theory you have come up with there based on completely nothing. And I'll just note, you still haven't actually answered the question. Except to imply (if I am reading correctly) that you were "stretching" to drive the game forward.
Let me explain it better, if you really can't understand why someone would ask you this. Jobie made one post. A clearly labeled RVS vote post. Basically contentless. This is very common for opening posts of the game. I would not care that you voted him for it normally. I would assume it was an equally meaningless RVS vote. Except YOU implied that it wasn't. You basically said there was something that made you want to vote Jobie over the other person. You then explained why you were suspicious of the other person, but never said about Jobie.
So, what was it? That's pretty straightforward. It doesn't require any conspiracy theories to understand.
and even then, only if YOU agree with it apparently.
and yeah, im saying less this game so far. i came strong out of the gates last game due to not understanding rvs. i got some really good advice about letting other people answer questions. i dont really care that my posting style got me killed/upset jobie, but i do care about figuring out who is scum. i already know what i am, i need to learn what everyone else is.
how do you feel about 25% of the game already stating that your claim was dumb?
that possibility really makes me hate the proposition of not lynching (be it by getting on GJ's no lynch wagon or by nacho blocking the lynch)
I'll have the ability to look at mafia, but I'll be working on a big project that has a Wednesday deadline.
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Not answering other's questions is good and well, but electing instead to do nothing is a pretty poor compromise.
I expected blowback from people saying my claim is stupid; "early claims are bad" is a pretty common line of thought, but no one's actually stated why they felt my claim was bad, so my viewpoint on it hasn't really changed. Do you think my claim was bad?
I also understand you dislike the use of my power in general, but do you think my claim is more likely to come from scum or town? Why?
What do you think of Xyre?
All questions aren't equal. You can glean alignment relevant information based on the kind of questions that people ask and what they choose to focus on. I found your focus strange.
I haven't. What of it? If I thought it would help town, I would have when you first asked.
I disagree that Jobie's post was null and I deliberately phrased my first post in a way to make it clear that I wasn't RVS voting Jobie. I never RVS vote but in the past, people tended to assume that my early naked votes were RVS so I often had to clarify that all my votes were serious.
The fact that Jobie chose to "clearly label" his vote as RVS is itself a minor scumtell. He's trying to avoid responsibility for casting the vote by taking an overly neutral stance. There are several useful things he could have done with his first post in the game. He could have voted someone he knew in order to facilitate an interaction that would help him read them. He could have commented on the only notable thing that happened thus far in the game (Nacho saying he's town rather than just confirming). He could have voted without clarifying that it was RVS thus instigating queries and discussion to push the game forward. He did none of that and chose the safest play that a player could possibly make: an RVS post with clear LABEL tacked on suggesting to us all that that was an RVS vote and he's not to blame for any blowback or discussion that could possibly result from it. That looks like squirmy scum trying to fly under the radar.
Getting a strong town read from Nacho. Great point about Tom. Tom was adamant that he would not change his style but he does come across much more careful and less chatty than he was in his last game.
@Tom-Why the change of tone?
Check out Day one of Tom's last completed game Predator Mafia. He was the town doctor and spammed the thread until he was day killed by the neutral.
what questions have i missed answering?
i dont have a particular read on you either way. if i had to guess now, i would say town thats likely to muck up the game. but i also think you might be mayor of avabruck
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
I didn't delve into why I thought your claim was bad because I think you're town and you've already claimed so we can't undo the claim. Lecturing you over the badness of it would have been an unproductive conversation in lieu of other more interesting things.
If you do want to know, here are two reasons I disagree with your claim:
1. You missed a chance to screw over the scumteam at LYLO. You had a powerful role that could single-handedly snatch victory for town from the jaws of defeat. There is no reason to expect you'd be nightkilled over anybody else and if you are, no big deal, we can move on.
2. When a player is lynched, they can often have telling reactions in twilight before the mod closes the thread if they believe that they are irrevocably lynched and have been eliminated from the game. Town may frantically put together a list of reads and demand that their scumspects be lynched. Scum may admit to being scum and congratulate us on a good lynch. By claiming your role, you are making it so that everyone still plays as if they're not already dead which takes away this valuable little time that you could have used to scumhunt and overturn town lynches.
I disagree that the questionable benefits from you trying to wield more influence on the town by threatening to overturn lynches on your townreads outweigh the huge benefits that you threw away.
dont worry, my tone is the same. just the volume of posts is different.
i did say that part of the reason for my "spamming" was because no one else was posting. this game is far more active. im doing more reading than typing. but never fear, i will spam again.
You forgot something here...
like what is it about Rodemy you don't like. I think it's weird you mention you don't like Rodemy as if you've mentioned him before, but you never have.
@NACHOMMA...
Can you "Governor" yourself?
rodemy hasnt really said anything of note. just something about his "claim" of town rodemy. unsolicited and meaningless.
then he rvs votes, then changes to a real vote because of a claim that happened BEFORE his rvs vote.
would you like to answer my question now?
I'm not claiming no-one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue; I'm claiming that I disbelieve such claims on principal because they usually feel like a ploy. Furthermore, if he's telling the truth, he's basically guaranteed to create no value in the game and either get murdered by the mafia, roleblocked and left for us to kill to clear the WIFOM, or (since we have two mafias) maybe both. He's no longer worth much of anything; all he does is generate confusion. Hence I'll treat him like any other suspicious player and vote for him until a better candidate appears.
I just assume some of these things go without saying. For example, Necarg is a classic lurking scum who upon being cited for making a no-content post by me instantly threw out a vote on an obvious target without more than his disbelief to explain it. Business's #64 actually made me feel slightly better about him, with its utter lack of guilelessness, and Necarg pouncing on it makes me feel like he just wanted a reason. I'll try to be less, uh, deadpan.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
also, this probably doesnt matter but why did you change the color of this post to black?
Rodemy only has a phone. And has a life brah. Get off ma dick ♡
Also, sunglasses coolpizza was a profile i made for a mafia game long ago, i meant to come out and say it was me, but alas, life.
First post was to just get in there. In fact, there was a question there i kind of wanted answered.. sooo could it please be answered?
Also: i am pretty sure not everyone is in this game yet, so if you wanna vote me based on post count and quality, then you sir are being a scum. Vote stays, i wanna see where this governor thing goes.
Why are you scum reading iamabusinessman?
I don't really understand why or how Rodemy saying he's town is different from me saying that I'm town at the beginning of the game.
Changing his RVS to a real vote seems to be a result of him reading the game.
Thanks for the input.
I agree with you that there are more interesting things to do in this game. I'll probably bring thus up in post-game.