I just can't bring myself to believe tom is scum. In part because I think, if he were scum, he'd have done an about-face on me two hundred posts ago to try to throw suspicion off himself. I just don't see a scum sticking to his unusual opinions in the face of so much opposition.
Since Nacho is threatening to Governor, I don't think getting a claim is useful. Can we go back to talking about Chris?
Xyre, do you believe people who do an about face on their opinions are treated without suspicion? That's a weird thought to have.
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Xyre, do you believe people who do an about face on their opinions are treated without suspicion? That's a weird thought to have.
No, but I can easily imagine ways where tom could walk back his previous opinion in a way that wouldn't draw that kind of risk. "All this suspicion of Xyre is making me question my previous pronouncements" and the like. It would be far more tactically advantageous than being stubborn and still getting lynched.
Which votes on him are due to his stubborn read of you, Xyre?
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Which votes on him are due to his stubborn read of you, Xyre?
Huh? No, I mean changing his mind a couple hundred posts ago would have been a good way for scum-tom to get people off his back and onto mine. I don't think people are voting him just for supporting me. But I do think the fact that he definitely had a window to exploit shifting opinions and chose not to indicates his earnestness.
So it's a hmmm...maybe I should take another look at Tom to see what the fuss is about
OR
hmmm... maybe I need to work harder to persuade these guys to get on a Sir Chris wagon
OR
something else entirely?
I guess a mix of all three.
I have a townread on Tom but apparently a lot of people who know him want to lynch him. I want to lynch Sir Chris, but it could just be that his play is rubbing me the wrong way. I didn't like Necarg, I went over why I didn't like Sir Chris once he replaced in, I don't like the timing of Sir Chris' vote (he became the leading wagon, voted for one of the second-place wagons (Tom; Zionite was also tied at 3 votes at the time), and then a bunch of people piled on), and it seems like people on Tom's wagon are only just now super confident in their scumread of him. Of the wagon hoppers, I think Wildfire looks the worst. I'll have to go back and look at his Tom read.
A claim out of Tom would hopefully give us a potential to reverse the Governor's opinion of negating the lynch. That's what we gain.
...
Jobie...
Are you sure you're trying to convince Tom to claim?
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Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Uh, no. That's not my job. I'm merely going to state my current read of tom (town) and disagree with this movement, entirely independent of the governor role.
I mean, I haven't even made a persuasive scum case. What makes you think I should be the guy telling everyone that Tom's town? I think Tom can defend himself just fine.
So yeah, it's essentially that he claimed Governor and he's townreading you.
technically yes, but it has nothing to do with it being me. if he was town reading chris right now and popped in to remind us he would pardon him, i would feel the same.
like i said, it would be so easy for nacho to change his mind when theres a lot of pressure on one of his town reads. no one would really fault him for it.
but no, hes standing by it and is willing to prove his claim.
now the meat:
i think ive made quite clear im not interested in claiming.
and frankly i dont see how the case against me has gained this much steam. its pretty weak.
If tom is scum then scum team has daychat. There's no way tom goes from making such inept and pitiful posts from earlier to points like this all on his own.
this is just ridiculous, and i want you all to read it again.
Tom has made the rookie mistake of suspecting someone and then just literally trying to paint every single little thing they do as scummy. It's not natural.[snip] but then every single comment towards me after that is with the end goal in mind of lynching me. He really expresses no interest in figuring me out, he just keeps trying to get me lynched because.
he comes off so angry and caustic and bitter. It's a weird tone shift. Predator Tom was so eager and fun and someone I really enjoyed talking with even as he spun all these wild and crazy reasons why I was scum.
i mean, i know im not angry and caustic and bitter. does anyone agree with that characterization? i think of myself as rather the opposite, but perhaps i dont come across that way?
and i will freely admit that my case against imab is a little crazy. he is definitely the player im treating like i treated chris in predator.
The problem, Tom, is you don't really ever give much of a reason for your scum read. It boils down to 'you're different from predator and I don't like that' and then followed by lots of comments. In predator you thought I was scum too, but you weren't satisfied with that. You kept trying to dig at me and make people understand your perspective. You came up with wild and fun theories about all the evils a scum chris could do and I found it immensely charming in that game, despite how off you were. Here you have none of that. You just place a vote and then keep trying to shove me around. There is no inspired brilliance in your play that I so loved in Predator. You are coming off very flat.
again, he could either be describing me vs chris in predator or me vs imab in this game.
the difference is im more realistic now. i get that imab isnt getting lynched yet. the tom from predator would have kept gunning for imab. the more experienced tom sees chris as the pragmatic choice.
youll have to excuse my lack of passion for it.
Early on, I dismissed most of his bumbling as being similar to Predator and attributed it to his noobishness. However, the overall feel is wrong.
chris and tapping have also said something along these lines. i just feel off.
i cant really respond to it, but neither should it convince anyone.
and it seems to be the biggest part of all of their arguments.
oh, and i should quickly summarize the rest of the wagon:
jobie - hes annoying/inane/keeping me from reading the game and therefore scum. or not. jobie dont care.
johnny - "I have not liked most of his votes. I feel his back and forth with TS was terrible, and even his hesitate to switch votes reads as if he is nervous about getting his hand caught in the cookie jar."
antny - ooh look. a wagon.
johnny's read is at least based on something. a lot of my back and forth with tapping WAS terrible. though i will say that disagreeing doesnt really mean anything, as we could easily both be town and agree on nothing.
wildfire and tapping are both going off gut feels and i think thats null.
but those other 4 on the wagon are not coming out smelling like roses.
EtR
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And it hasn't been like this just now btw. I've been looking at this for the past three days and things like this have been happening all the time.
I saw this too. Zionite was also doing this when heat was transfering from him to Tom but while I was sleeping he finally commented. Etr has been on my scum list since the beginning. Guy has played pretty transparent as scum, which seems bad.
To the first question. I didn't think I didn't know I stopped interacting with etr. Looks like I got bogged down by all the Tom interaction.
Well, now that it’s been brought to your attention, can you go back and answer the questions? Or are you going to continue to not interact? At this point, I don’t understand what your motivation would be for not answering them.
If anything, me forgetting about two scum teams means I'm not either of them. Yes this is self analysis to be taken as such, but I don't see how you come to the opposite conclusion.
What? I haven’t really agreed with TappingStones push on you, but you’ll have to explain your logic here.
so we disagree on... xyre. and eachother i suppose.
i do find it odd that you asked about 3 specific reads and proceeded to agree with two of them.
Why is that odd tom?
well i can see being interested in any scum read that hasnt really been explained. and i can see being interested in a town read you dont agree with.
but why talk about shared town reads? what does that really do?
Determining your reasoning for any reads seems important to me. If you just claim that certain people are town and I don’t ask just because I agree, then I could be losing an opportunity to catch you giving unfounded reads.
Off the top of my head, my townreads are:
-Tom: I don't think his approach to the OB/TS fight early game was an approach that he would take as town, and his behavior in the discussion with Seppel also looks insanely town. He's also been a huge presence again and I like the direction most of his scumhunting has taken. Tom is the only player I'd currently pardon if lynched.
Slip?
@Seppel – you said that Tom is “He's dumb town who needs help.” What does this mean?
I like Vaimes and I liked Rodemy so, still town on that slot.
Okay, we're definitely stagnating here, and it feels like were just starting to go around in circles. I'm as guilty as the next of not pushing on anyone harder. So, it's time to fish or cut bait.
Xyre
Jobie
Zionite
Everybody pick one. Who is the most likely scum?
Xyre, but I’d be unhappy with this lynch at the moment. I think there are better choices.
Jobie is town. His attack on Tom makes sense. There were no less than three town players in PRedator mafia that were happy with Tom getting vigged (knowing full well he was town). His play was that disruptive. Check out the post game conversation for more on this topic.
What happened in Predator Mafia should have no bearing on this game, unless it is something that can provide meta analysis of a player. His attack on Tom does not make sense in the context of this game. He has pointed out that Tom made a "solid scum tell", but has not elaborated on this. His post before that was an attempt to push anyone who played in PredMaf to join his wagon on Tom, because he finds Tom annoying (as do you). Bearing a grudge does not necessarily make Jobie scum, but the way he is trying to garner support for a wagon on Tom looks scummy.
Necarg replaced out of this game under pressure but didn't replace out of the then current Vanillaville. Replacing out under pressure is a hardcore scumtell among newbies. Your lackluster activity at the start sealed the deal.
He replaced out of this game over the last night of vanillaville, and when the day started the wolves instantly won the game. From his posts it seems like he was very busy and didn't have time for mafia, at least that's my assumption. Btw, if you genuinely believe my effort levels are a measure of town/scum then you know exactly nothing about me. I mean I am all for meta but this is just sloppy and poor. Play better please.
It'd be weird for a member of town to supersede his own strong read because of a singular post by someone else.
so shouldnt you be reading tapping and dota as scum for letting nacho convince them of my towniness?
People are capable of making good points. DoTA has gone from a kind of bumbling scum read for me to a town read and no one has said anything about his posts.
Zionite is definitely reading like he’s on his back foot in #740.
The "it" is referring to Tordeck's posting restriction, which is what Zionite was asking about and which is what I was responding to. Why do you think of Dot's Blatant misrep. He had to selectively use quotes in order to remove all context of what we were talking about in order to try and slander another player. What do you think of DoT's hardcore misrep? I know it moves him right back into the scum pile for me. How about you?
Oh. Yup, that certainly shifts DotA into the scum pile. I just wanted to be clear that's what was going on.
This seems like a weak attempt to move someone on your list. What else has DotA done to make you think he’s scum?
Friendly reminder that Tom is one of two people that I said I would pardon if he actually got lynched. I will be caught up by the end of this weekend and will make every effort to look at cases and transparently explain why I'm town reading him, but lynching him or TS at this point will result in a no lynch.
Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Why would Nacho bluff that? What purpose does it serve?
And it hasn't been like this just now btw. I've been looking at this for the past three days and things like this have been happening all the time.
is there really nothing in game youd rather talk about?
I find using images to interpret tom's post to be a lot more entertaining so I think I might do that from now on. Anyway, yes, I think pointing out and submitting proof that a player is actively lurking is both important and relevant.
To the first question. I didn't think I didn't know I stopped interacting with etr. Looks like I got bogged down by all the Tom interaction.
Well, now that it’s been brought to your attention, can you go back and answer the questions? Or are you going to continue to not interact? At this point, I don’t understand what your motivation would be for not answering them.
If anything, me forgetting about two scum teams means I'm not either of them. Yes this is self analysis to be taken as such, but I don't see how you come to the opposite conclusion.
What? I haven’t really agreed with TappingStones push on you, but you’ll have to explain your logic here.
so we disagree on... xyre. and eachother i suppose.
i do find it odd that you asked about 3 specific reads and proceeded to agree with two of them.
Why is that odd tom?
well i can see being interested in any scum read that hasnt really been explained. and i can see being interested in a town read you dont agree with.
but why talk about shared town reads? what does that really do?
Determining your reasoning for any reads seems important to me. If you just claim that certain people are town and I don’t ask just because I agree, then I could be losing an opportunity to catch you giving unfounded reads.
Off the top of my head, my townreads are:
-Tom: I don't think his approach to the OB/TS fight early game was an approach that he would take as town, and his behavior in the discussion with Seppel also looks insanely town. He's also been a huge presence again and I like the direction most of his scumhunting has taken. Tom is the only player I'd currently pardon if lynched.
Slip?
@Seppel – you said that Tom is “He's dumb town who needs help.” What does this mean?
I like Vaimes and I liked Rodemy so, still town on that slot.
Okay, we're definitely stagnating here, and it feels like were just starting to go around in circles. I'm as guilty as the next of not pushing on anyone harder. So, it's time to fish or cut bait.
Xyre
Jobie
Zionite
Everybody pick one. Who is the most likely scum?
Xyre, but I’d be unhappy with this lynch at the moment. I think there are better choices.
Jobie is town. His attack on Tom makes sense. There were no less than three town players in PRedator mafia that were happy with Tom getting vigged (knowing full well he was town). His play was that disruptive. Check out the post game conversation for more on this topic.
What happened in Predator Mafia should have no bearing on this game, unless it is something that can provide meta analysis of a player. His attack on Tom does not make sense in the context of this game. He has pointed out that Tom made a "solid scum tell", but has not elaborated on this. His post before that was an attempt to push anyone who played in PredMaf to join his wagon on Tom, because he finds Tom annoying (as do you). Bearing a grudge does not necessarily make Jobie scum, but the way he is trying to garner support for a wagon on Tom looks scummy.
Necarg replaced out of this game under pressure but didn't replace out of the then current Vanillaville. Replacing out under pressure is a hardcore scumtell among newbies. Your lackluster activity at the start sealed the deal.
He replaced out of this game over the last night of vanillaville, and when the day started the wolves instantly won the game. From his posts it seems like he was very busy and didn't have time for mafia, at least that's my assumption. Btw, if you genuinely believe my effort levels are a measure of town/scum then you know exactly nothing about me. I mean I am all for meta but this is just sloppy and poor. Play better please.
It'd be weird for a member of town to supersede his own strong read because of a singular post by someone else.
so shouldnt you be reading tapping and dota as scum for letting nacho convince them of my towniness?
People are capable of making good points. DoTA has gone from a kind of bumbling scum read for me to a town read and no one has said anything about his posts.
Zionite is definitely reading like he’s on his back foot in #740.
The "it" is referring to Tordeck's posting restriction, which is what Zionite was asking about and which is what I was responding to. Why do you think of Dot's Blatant misrep. He had to selectively use quotes in order to remove all context of what we were talking about in order to try and slander another player. What do you think of DoT's hardcore misrep? I know it moves him right back into the scum pile for me. How about you?
Oh. Yup, that certainly shifts DotA into the scum pile. I just wanted to be clear that's what was going on.
This seems like a weak attempt to move someone on your list. What else has DotA done to make you think he’s scum?
Friendly reminder that Tom is one of two people that I said I would pardon if he actually got lynched. I will be caught up by the end of this weekend and will make every effort to look at cases and transparently explain why I'm town reading him, but lynching him or TS at this point will result in a no lynch.
Tom's a waste of time for a wagon. We won't get any information beyond confirmation the governor role is real, and we stand to lose ground if he claims anyway. I'm against a tom lynch.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Why would Nacho bluff that? What purpose does it serve?
EtR
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And it hasn't been like this just now btw. I've been looking at this for the past three days and things like this have been happening all the time.
Eat it, Ice Cream. I had time to check on my phone but not time to put a real post together.
Perhaps you should read and not just skim? I already made it very clear that I don't expect Nacho to pardon. People say they are going to do a lot of things, doesn't mean it will happen. With how little time Nacho has had for this game it wouldn't be strange for him to read and see how bad Tom has looked.
is there really nothing in game youd rather talk about?
Actually there is something else I'd also like to discuss.
I found a slightly rotted piece of salmon in between my teeth from six days ago despite repeated brushings. Do you think this affects my read on Jobie?
Tom are you trying to deflect attention away from lurking scum? You want Hunt to participate but not etr? strange...
of course i want etr to post. and imab's attack did summon etr from thin air, so i guess it worked.
but thats now the second scum argument imab has made from outside the game (the first being on necarg replacing out). and im not sure what to think of it. ive not seen anyone else do that before.
i mean, i guess its similar to a meta argument in that its based on information not in the thread. but both of those just seem so...i dont even know.
i cant imagine thinking that way.
@etr have any of your reads changed other than dota?
@imab i like that avatar. it really matches your alignment
and i do love talking about me. im the best.
Tom are you trying to deflect attention away from lurking scum? You want Hunt to participate but not etr? strange...
of course i want etr to post. and imab's attack did summon etr from thin air, so i guess it worked.
but thats now the second scum argument imab has made from outside the game (the first being on necarg replacing out). and im not sure what to think of it. ive not seen anyone else do that before.
i mean, i guess its similar to a meta argument in that its based on information not in the thread. but both of those just seem so...i dont even know.
i cant imagine thinking that way.
@etr have any of your reads changed other than dota?
@imab i like that avatar. it really matches your alignment
and i do love talking about me. im the best.
The Necarg replace out argument was weak. I didn't find it scummy. Was there something he said that especially seemed to come from a scum mindset? Perhaps I missed something. Otherwise I like IABM these days.
From thin air - I've been reading and typing for awhile now.
Reads thay have changed: Dota seems more town, Zionite has gone from undecided to scummy, Axel seems better with him trying to hold Hunt accountable (who really should replace out if he doesn't have the time to ever post) and I think that's it.
The Necarg replace out argument was weak. I didn't find it scummy. Was there something he said that especially seemed to come from a scum mindset?
as much as id like to see the scum motivation there, i genuinely have no idea.
its just a thing i find very odd.
i didnt pay much heed to the necarg argument either, but i did notice the nice distancing posts from chris in response.
the fervor with which chris is defending himself is the most marked difference that i see in this game.
From thin air - I've been reading and typing for awhile now.
Reads thay have changed: Dota seems more town, Zionite has gone from undecided to scummy, Axel seems better with him trying to hold Hunt accountable (who really should replace out if he doesn't have the time to ever post) and I think that's it.
i mean, you have to realize that posting right after that makes it look that way.
that said, i think scum would have lurked for a couple more hours to avoid that.
and i agree that axel looks better, but trying to hold lurkers accountable is meaningless as far as a scum read. you could say that about me, tapping, and imab too
The Necarg replace out argument was weak. I didn't find it scummy. Was there something he said that especially seemed to come from a scum mindset?
as much as id like to see the scum motivation there, i genuinely have no idea.
its just a thing i find very odd.
i didnt pay much heed to the necarg argument either, but i did notice the nice distancing posts from chris in response.
the fervor with which chris is defending himself is the most marked difference that i see in this game.
From thin air - I've been reading and typing for awhile now.
Reads thay have changed: Dota seems more town, Zionite has gone from undecided to scummy, Axel seems better with him trying to hold Hunt accountable (who really should replace out if he doesn't have the time to ever post) and I think that's it.
i mean, you have to realize that posting right after that makes it look that way.
that said, i think scum would have lurked for a couple more hours to avoid that.
and i agree that axel looks better, but trying to hold lurkers accountable is meaningless as far as a scum read. you could say that about me, tapping, and imab too
it was the way in which he did it. The very specific language.
The Necarg replace out argument was weak. I didn't find it scummy. Was there something he said that especially seemed to come from a scum mindset?
as much as id like to see the scum motivation there, i genuinely have no idea.
its just a thing i find very odd.
i didnt pay much heed to the necarg argument either, but i did notice the nice distancing posts from chris in response.
the fervor with which chris is defending himself is the most marked difference that i see in this game.
From thin air - I've been reading and typing for awhile now.
Reads thay have changed: Dota seems more town, Zionite has gone from undecided to scummy, Axel seems better with him trying to hold Hunt accountable (who really should replace out if he doesn't have the time to ever post) and I think that's it.
i mean, you have to realize that posting right after that makes it look that way.
that said, i think scum would have lurked for a couple more hours to avoid that.
and i agree that axel looks better, but trying to hold lurkers accountable is meaningless as far as a scum read. you could say that about me, tapping, and imab too
it was the way in which he did it. The very specific language.
What specific language? Be careful you don't reference any of the language Tom and I have used to push lurkers...wouldn't want you to contradict yourself again now would we?
My effort and availability has been awful. I do apologize and I realize I am not helping my fellow townies at all. I still have my catch up posts cues and ready, I just need to find time at home to do so.
Phone posting this because more replacements will hurt the game, and once I start posting my perspective should lend new light to catching scum.
When exactly is this going to happen, Hunt? When's it going to change? Are you, or are you not going to "find the time" anytime soon? I want some kind of commitment here.
My effort and availability has been awful. I do apologize and I realize I am not helping my fellow townies at all. I still have my catch up posts cues and ready, I just need to find time at home to do so.
Phone posting this because more replacements will hurt the game, and once I start posting my perspective should lend new light to catching scum.
When exactly is this going to happen, Hunt? When's it going to change? Are you, or are you not going to "find the time" anytime soon? I want some kind of commitment here.
This one, troll.
This axelrod post is very good. I feel the EXACT same sentiment. Huntzilla is trying to cruise through day one. He's too busy to post for multiple weeks? He hasn't even begun to play the game but keeps promising future content.
I will second a request that the mod have a talk with Hunt, either he's in or out. If he has no time why wont he ask to replace out? Wants to hold onto his scum role? I have no idea. I just know I don't like it and I praise axelrod for holding him accountable.
This axelrod post is very good. I feel the EXACT same sentiment. Huntzilla is trying to cruise through day one. He's too busy to post for multiple weeks? He hasn't even begun to play the game but keeps promising future content.
I will second a request that the mod have a talk with Hunt, either he's in or out. If he has no time why wont he ask to replace out? Wants to hold onto his scum role? I have no idea. I just know I don't like it and I praise axelrod for holding him accountable.
I mean, as someone who's struggled with activity level this game as well, I can empathize with Huntz. I can also understand not wanting to replace out (especially with multiple replacements already). Bottom line is, there's 18 people in the game and only one gets lynched today. If you're really concerned about potential scum!Huntz just coasting, I might suggest someone with a vig shot take him out overnight.
If Nachomama's 100% going to governor Tom, I'd take him off the table toDay (and there's no reason he should claim either). I don't like it, but them's the breaks. I'm going to take a closer look at some of the other top suspects and see what meshes.
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A claim out of Tom would hopefully give us a potential to reverse the Governor's opinion of negating the lynch. That's what we gain.
can you explain what you mean by this? I've read it a few times and I think I'm missing something.
My thought process is: at worst Tom claims power and if gets him NKed, at best we catch him in a bad claim and we lynch him ftw. The likely middle is he provides a convincing claim and we move on. The threat of governing is not enough for me to want to leave a Tom wagon.
@Xyre: don't think I missed that blatant smear. We can try to lynch you instead of you'd like. @Chris: I WORDS GOOD. ME CONVINCING YOU JUST NO UNDERSTAND.
Zioite is nearly unlynchable for me at this point. I will not partake in that today.
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A claim out of Tom would hopefully give us a potential to reverse the Governor's opinion of negating the lynch. That's what we gain.
can you explain what you mean by this? I've read it a few times and I think I'm missing something.
My thought process is: at worst Tom claims power and if gets him NKed, at best we catch him in a bad claim and we lynch him ftw. The likely middle is he provides a convincing claim and we move on. The threat of governing is not enough for me to want to leave a Tom wagon.
@Xyre: don't think I missed that blatant smear. We can try to lynch you instead of you'd like. @Chris: I WORDS GOOD. ME CONVINCING YOU JUST NO UNDERSTAND.
Zioite is nearly unlynchable for me at this point. I will not partake in that today.
More Jobie plesse! He's on the right track. Tom is the lynch, then Zionite and Xyre.
Tapping, why are you willing to blindly follow a player who has, at best, been anti-town so far.
That's quite a misrep to ask why I'm following him. I've been leading the charge. Jobie has been on again off again in his posting. Unfortunately we have too many people like that right now. I'm encouraged by his posts because when he's here he's been on a similar wavelength as me about who to lynch.
I'm not talking about lynching Tom, I'm talking about the claim push. Tom was at L-3 (as you so helpfully pointed out), there was no need for him to claim. Jobie pushing for the claim on the grounds that it will get him night killed or lynched (I still fail to see what a bad claim would be considering we're still in day 1) is an anti-town sentiment. If Jobie isn't scum then he's neutral, because nothing I've seen from him can convince me he's aiming for a town victory.
He just dropped another solid scum tell that just makes me want to see what his alignment is. I think Tom's alignment gives us the most information heading into tomorrow, regardless of his actual flip.
Jobie, did you ever reveal what scum tell you were referring to?
I'm not talking about lynching Tom, I'm talking about the claim push. Tom was at L-3 (as you so helpfully pointed out), there was no need for him to claim. Jobie pushing for the claim on the grounds that it will get him night killed or lynched (I still fail to see what a bad claim would be considering we're still in day 1) is an anti-town sentiment. If Jobie isn't scum then he's neutral, because nothing I've seen from him can convince me he's aiming for a town victory.
He just dropped another solid scum tell that just makes me want to see what his alignment is. I think Tom's alignment gives us the most information heading into tomorrow, regardless of his actual flip.
Jobie, did you ever reveal what scum tell you were referring to?
The point is well taken. I thought you meant the run up on Tom. I don't think the claim will be any thing insane, just more or less moving toward a lynch of a good scum target.
at a certain point, i have to really question my thoughts on jobie.
hes just been so blatantly pushing his own selfish agenda that he cant possibly be town.
but hes also being so openly scummy that he just cant be actual scum.
Phone posting, so most of my work is reading as opposed to posting but here is some Tom-centric posting (and another reminder that lynching him still = no lynch so calling for a claim and continuing to push the wagon is a waste of time unless you're clearly outlining a case against him).
So yeah, it's essentially that he claimed Governor and he's townreading you.
You put these words into his mouth completely.
He said that what worries him about early claims is that people seems to buy them immediately for little to no reason. He's pointed out that I've explained a rationale for claiming when I did (IABM didn't), and he pointed out that I am not budging when I could have took this opportunity to back off so the chances of me having to prove my claim would be smaller.
I have no doubts that the fact that I am defending him factors into his townread, but that's a natural response which is the reason why scum buddying as a tactic exists.
My understanding of TS's case is that Tom is playing differently from last game which will require legwork I won't have time for until tomorrow, most likely; hunting down Chris's case now.
Tom has made the rookie mistake of suspecting someone and then just literally trying to paint every single little thing they do as scummy. It's not natural. He voted me for being different than in Predator, okay sure that's a premise I make no effort to be static and can see the thread, but then every single comment towards me after that is with the end goal in mind of lynching me. He really expresses no interest in figuring me out, he just keeps trying to get me lynched because. Town try to solve, scum try to push through lynches. Good scum can of course cover themselves, Tom's not doing so well though.
I invite anyone to iso tom in regards to me. He is transparent.
:/
Your case is that he's trying to push a lynch on you over solve the game because he's trying to call every little thing you do scummy except he's not making cute theories like he did in the last game?
Help me unpack this, please -
1) You make the claim that town try to solve the game and scum try to push through mislynches. You also make the claim that Tom got seriously carried away with tunneling you last game.
I believe that Tom is a player that excessively tunnels as town. I also believe that a sign of scum trying to push through lynches over town trying to solve the game is narrower focus, which Tom most certainly doesn't have this game.
Why is "calling a bunch of thing you do scummy" different than the way he treated his main suspects in Predator?
2) Your accusation of Tom being "angry and bitter and caustic" is an assertion that only comes close to applying when Tom has been under pressure. The only times in aria games my tone shifts to frustration is when people are being extremely dumb, or when people are pushing dumb cases on me. You don't think there's a good chance Tom's shift in tone (which only occurs in very short instances) is based on him being under pressure?
If I made a significant mistake regarding your case, let me know. Moving onto reviewing his vote on you.
is there really nothing in game youd rather talk about?
Actually there is something else I'd also like to discuss.
I found a slightly rotted piece of salmon in between my teeth from six days ago despite repeated brushings. Do you think this affects my read on Jobie?
Tom's inability to answer this question suggests an inflexibility in thought process. I've asked him a question that requires an out of the box thought process. He'd at least have to try and take a stab at this question if he were truly interested in solving the game.
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Since Nacho is threatening to Governor, I don't think getting a claim is useful. Can we go back to talking about Chris?
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Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I guess a mix of all three.
I have a townread on Tom but apparently a lot of people who know him want to lynch him. I want to lynch Sir Chris, but it could just be that his play is rubbing me the wrong way. I didn't like Necarg, I went over why I didn't like Sir Chris once he replaced in, I don't like the timing of Sir Chris' vote (he became the leading wagon, voted for one of the second-place wagons (Tom; Zionite was also tied at 3 votes at the time), and then a bunch of people piled on), and it seems like people on Tom's wagon are only just now super confident in their scumread of him. Of the wagon hoppers, I think Wildfire looks the worst. I'll have to go back and look at his Tom read.
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Nacho said he'd throw together a town!Tom case, I think? Since Tom is one of the two people's lynches he'd overrule. I really want to see that.
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...
Jobie...
Are you sure you're trying to convince Tom to claim?
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Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Ewwwwww this post. If you're against the Tom lynch then make a town case for him. But don't pull that excuse because nacho could be bluffing.
Uh, no. That's not my job. I'm merely going to state my current read of tom (town) and disagree with this movement, entirely independent of the governor role.
like i said, it would be so easy for nacho to change his mind when theres a lot of pressure on one of his town reads. no one would really fault him for it.
but no, hes standing by it and is willing to prove his claim.
now the meat:
i think ive made quite clear im not interested in claiming.
and frankly i dont see how the case against me has gained this much steam. its pretty weak. this is just ridiculous, and i want you all to read it again. hahahahaha chris already admitted this point was hyperbole another argument he has admitted was false i mean, i know im not angry and caustic and bitter. does anyone agree with that characterization? i think of myself as rather the opposite, but perhaps i dont come across that way?
and i will freely admit that my case against imab is a little crazy. he is definitely the player im treating like i treated chris in predator.
again, he could either be describing me vs chris in predator or me vs imab in this game.
the difference is im more realistic now. i get that imab isnt getting lynched yet. the tom from predator would have kept gunning for imab. the more experienced tom sees chris as the pragmatic choice.
youll have to excuse my lack of passion for it. chris and tapping have also said something along these lines. i just feel off.
i cant really respond to it, but neither should it convince anyone.
and it seems to be the biggest part of all of their arguments.
oh, and i should quickly summarize the rest of the wagon:
jobie - hes annoying/inane/keeping me from reading the game and therefore scum. or not. jobie dont care.
johnny - "I have not liked most of his votes. I feel his back and forth with TS was terrible, and even his hesitate to switch votes reads as if he is nervous about getting his hand caught in the cookie jar."
antny - ooh look. a wagon.
johnny's read is at least based on something. a lot of my back and forth with tapping WAS terrible. though i will say that disagreeing doesnt really mean anything, as we could easily both be town and agree on nothing.
wildfire and tapping are both going off gut feels and i think thats null.
but those other 4 on the wagon are not coming out smelling like roses.
And it hasn't been like this just now btw. I've been looking at this for the past three days and things like this have been happening all the time.
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I saw this too. Zionite was also doing this when heat was transfering from him to Tom but while I was sleeping he finally commented. Etr has been on my scum list since the beginning. Guy has played pretty transparent as scum, which seems bad.
Tordeck you never answered my question about a way to get out of your posting restriction, did you?
Miles Davis for you can get out somehow John Coltrane for you can't.
Tom are you trying to deflect attention away from lurking scum? You want Hunt to participate but not etr? strange...
Well, now that it’s been brought to your attention, can you go back and answer the questions? Or are you going to continue to not interact? At this point, I don’t understand what your motivation would be for not answering them.
What? I haven’t really agreed with TappingStones push on you, but you’ll have to explain your logic here.
Determining your reasoning for any reads seems important to me. If you just claim that certain people are town and I don’t ask just because I agree, then I could be losing an opportunity to catch you giving unfounded reads.
Slip?
@Seppel – you said that Tom is “He's dumb town who needs help.” What does this mean?
I like Vaimes and I liked Rodemy so, still town on that slot.
Xyre, but I’d be unhappy with this lynch at the moment. I think there are better choices.
Another solid post from DoTa.
Where do you have IMAB at the moment?
I like Sir Chris’ points about Zionite in #714.
People are capable of making good points. DoTA has gone from a kind of bumbling scum read for me to a town read and no one has said anything about his posts.
Zionite is definitely reading like he’s on his back foot in #740.
Nothing. I just recognized that my vote for you was useless at that moment as no one else had you as a strong scum read. I was wasting my vote.
Why?
This seems like a weak attempt to move someone on your list. What else has DotA done to make you think he’s scum?
Your role is the worst.
Why are you people trying to get a claim out of someone that is going to be pardoned? That is silly.
Why would Nacho bluff that? What purpose does it serve?
Eat it, Ice Cream. I had time to check on my phone but not time to put a real post together.
I find using images to interpret tom's post to be a lot more entertaining so I think I might do that from now on. Anyway, yes, I think pointing out and submitting proof that a player is actively lurking is both important and relevant.
That reminds me that I need to update my avatar now that Vanillaville is over.
Perhaps you should read and not just skim? I already made it very clear that I don't expect Nacho to pardon. People say they are going to do a lot of things, doesn't mean it will happen. With how little time Nacho has had for this game it wouldn't be strange for him to read and see how bad Tom has looked.
Actually there is something else I'd also like to discuss.
I found a slightly rotted piece of salmon in between my teeth from six days ago despite repeated brushings. Do you think this affects my read on Jobie?
but thats now the second scum argument imab has made from outside the game (the first being on necarg replacing out). and im not sure what to think of it. ive not seen anyone else do that before.
i mean, i guess its similar to a meta argument in that its based on information not in the thread. but both of those just seem so...i dont even know.
i cant imagine thinking that way.
@etr have any of your reads changed other than dota?
@imab i like that avatar. it really matches your alignment
and i do love talking about me. im the best.
The Necarg replace out argument was weak. I didn't find it scummy. Was there something he said that especially seemed to come from a scum mindset? Perhaps I missed something. Otherwise I like IABM these days.
Reads thay have changed: Dota seems more town, Zionite has gone from undecided to scummy, Axel seems better with him trying to hold Hunt accountable (who really should replace out if he doesn't have the time to ever post) and I think that's it.
its just a thing i find very odd.
i didnt pay much heed to the necarg argument either, but i did notice the nice distancing posts from chris in response.
the fervor with which chris is defending himself is the most marked difference that i see in this game.
i mean, you have to realize that posting right after that makes it look that way.
that said, i think scum would have lurked for a couple more hours to avoid that.
and i agree that axel looks better, but trying to hold lurkers accountable is meaningless as far as a scum read. you could say that about me, tapping, and imab too
What specific language? Be careful you don't reference any of the language Tom and I have used to push lurkers...wouldn't want you to contradict yourself again now would we?
This one, troll.
This axelrod post is very good. I feel the EXACT same sentiment. Huntzilla is trying to cruise through day one. He's too busy to post for multiple weeks? He hasn't even begun to play the game but keeps promising future content.
I will second a request that the mod have a talk with Hunt, either he's in or out. If he has no time why wont he ask to replace out? Wants to hold onto his scum role? I have no idea. I just know I don't like it and I praise axelrod for holding him accountable.
I mean, as someone who's struggled with activity level this game as well, I can empathize with Huntz. I can also understand not wanting to replace out (especially with multiple replacements already). Bottom line is, there's 18 people in the game and only one gets lynched today. If you're really concerned about potential scum!Huntz just coasting, I might suggest someone with a vig shot take him out overnight.
If Nachomama's 100% going to governor Tom, I'd take him off the table toDay (and there's no reason he should claim either). I don't like it, but them's the breaks. I'm going to take a closer look at some of the other top suspects and see what meshes.
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My thought process is: at worst Tom claims power and if gets him NKed, at best we catch him in a bad claim and we lynch him ftw. The likely middle is he provides a convincing claim and we move on. The threat of governing is not enough for me to want to leave a Tom wagon.
@Xyre: don't think I missed that blatant smear. We can try to lynch you instead of you'd like.
@Chris: I WORDS GOOD. ME CONVINCING YOU JUST NO UNDERSTAND.
Zioite is nearly unlynchable for me at this point. I will not partake in that today.
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More Jobie plesse! He's on the right track. Tom is the lynch, then Zionite and Xyre.
That's quite a misrep to ask why I'm following him. I've been leading the charge. Jobie has been on again off again in his posting. Unfortunately we have too many people like that right now. I'm encouraged by his posts because when he's here he's been on a similar wavelength as me about who to lynch.
Jobie, did you ever reveal what scum tell you were referring to?
The point is well taken. I thought you meant the run up on Tom. I don't think the claim will be any thing insane, just more or less moving toward a lynch of a good scum target.
hes just been so blatantly pushing his own selfish agenda that he cant possibly be town.
but hes also being so openly scummy that he just cant be actual scum.
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You put these words into his mouth completely.
He said that what worries him about early claims is that people seems to buy them immediately for little to no reason. He's pointed out that I've explained a rationale for claiming when I did (IABM didn't), and he pointed out that I am not budging when I could have took this opportunity to back off so the chances of me having to prove my claim would be smaller.
I have no doubts that the fact that I am defending him factors into his townread, but that's a natural response which is the reason why scum buddying as a tactic exists.
My understanding of TS's case is that Tom is playing differently from last game which will require legwork I won't have time for until tomorrow, most likely; hunting down Chris's case now.
:/
Your case is that he's trying to push a lynch on you over solve the game because he's trying to call every little thing you do scummy except he's not making cute theories like he did in the last game?
Help me unpack this, please -
1) You make the claim that town try to solve the game and scum try to push through mislynches. You also make the claim that Tom got seriously carried away with tunneling you last game.
I believe that Tom is a player that excessively tunnels as town. I also believe that a sign of scum trying to push through lynches over town trying to solve the game is narrower focus, which Tom most certainly doesn't have this game.
Why is "calling a bunch of thing you do scummy" different than the way he treated his main suspects in Predator?
2) Your accusation of Tom being "angry and bitter and caustic" is an assertion that only comes close to applying when Tom has been under pressure. The only times in aria games my tone shifts to frustration is when people are being extremely dumb, or when people are pushing dumb cases on me. You don't think there's a good chance Tom's shift in tone (which only occurs in very short instances) is based on him being under pressure?
If I made a significant mistake regarding your case, let me know. Moving onto reviewing his vote on you.
Tom's inability to answer this question suggests an inflexibility in thought process. I've asked him a question that requires an out of the box thought process. He'd at least have to try and take a stab at this question if he were truly interested in solving the game.