Hey tom I am saying TS is town. You saw how good I am at reading people as town and being correct, I have pretty crazy accuracy.
Move onto someone else, Tom.
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Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
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Hey tom I am saying TS is town. You saw how good I am at reading people as town and being correct, I have pretty crazy accuracy.
Move onto someone else, Tom.
youll have to excuse me not taking your word for it.
that said, i think the case is made and unless he actually responds to it instead of deflecting, i dont really feel the need to talk about it anymore.
have you finished reading yet? anyone youre looking at besides dotarchon?
Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
this is the clearly correct answer. not sure if zionite missed it or is just trying to town clear one of them for reasons of his own.
Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
this is the clearly correct answer. not sure if zionite missed it or is just trying to town clear one of them for reasons of his own.
You might want to go back and reread the quote from Zionite there, because the part I've highlighted seems to say the opposite of what you are now accusing him of. What made you think he was trying to town clear anyone?
youll have to excuse me not taking your word for it.
that said, i think the case is made and unless he actually responds to it instead of deflecting, i dont really feel the need to talk about it anymore.
have you finished reading yet? anyone youre looking at besides dotarchon?
Yeah I haven't read yet, probably not going to bother. Current events are a bit more interesting, like why won't you take my word for a town read. Dude kinda snapped, is super fussy, I mean what did you do in predator to make you think to yourself "I know how to town read people super well" I mean not to be mean about it but you kinda led town on a few wild goose chases. Let jesus take the wheel here tbh.
@ business guy
Okay I feel the need to point out that one of those examples is town, and I never said perfect accuracy. Just crazy accuracy.
Plus the two fails were people I'd never played with before, I get better when I know them, and I know TS pretty well after grilling him hard in predator. I mean if you want to ding someone for being wrong every once in awhile I mean I guess we can't trust anyone's reads ever let's SET THE WORLD ABLAZE.
Haven't read many posts by seppel or GJ, nothing has caught my attention. Should something have caught my eye? I am not really inclined to read everything, but if you want my eyes on something in particular I'll be glad to read it for you.
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Also don't worry Archon I have not forgotten about you, just multitasking a bit and using the far off deadline to my advantage in this particular game, chris is juggling.
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Okay, I've read everything. Might have to go back and ISO a couple Players of Interest, but that'll have to come a bit later. Maybe tonight when I'm at work.
He just dropped another solid scum tell that just makes me want to see what his alignment is. I think Tom's alignment gives us the most information heading into tomorrow, regardless of his actual flip.
I really don't like this. Especially since you specifically mention that tom probably displayed a scumtell, but then you include the underlined to leave yourself a way out.
You still haven't done as I had asked. I said I'd gladly stand corrected if you could prove it. All you're doing is furthering my point.
I haven't lied about anything. You OMGUSed me, and I pointed it out. Your reactions are telling the whole story; I don't have to do anything.
Unvote whomever
Vote Zionite
@people with townreads on Wildfire: why? Please be specific. I saw a couple of people with Wildfire in their upper townreads, I think, and I can't even remember seeing Wildfire ever posting, or even being talked about all that much.
Phone post:
@dot hes not trying to town clear, but he is giving town points. It may be an oversight, forgetting there's two scum teams. But it may be more nefarious. That's all I'm saying.
@chris really? You want us to trust your reads but are not going to read the whole thread? You can't have it both ways.
@vaimes I do technically agree with zionite that tappingstones reactions are bad, but I don't like that he's using that to not be accountable. He is firmly in my suspicious list after his last couple posts
Iirc, I have wildfire leaning town. I'll have to figure out why from a computer :/
@people with townreads on Wildfire: why? Please be specific. I saw a couple of people with Wildfire in their upper townreads, I think, and I can't even remember seeing Wildfire ever posting, or even being talked about all that much.
I was very active on the first few pages as I had the week off of work.
Do you have something specifically you've disliked about anything I've said? Or is it just the fact that my activity level has been (self-admittedly) very low? If it's the latter, I can tell you straight up that it's not an alignment thing - look at my posting elsewhere on the site and you'll see that it's drastically down from my usual level as well.
I have a little time this evening if you or anyone wants to directly engage.
Can you talk a little about why you are voting Zionite? It seems like voting him directly in response to a quote claiming you're OMGUSing without elaborating at all kind of proves his point.
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@people with townreads on Wildfire: why? Please be specific. I saw a couple of people with Wildfire in their upper townreads, I think, and I can't even remember seeing Wildfire ever posting, or even being talked about all that much.
I was very active on the first few pages as I had the week off of work.
Do you have something specifically you've disliked about anything I've said? Or is it just the fact that my activity level has been (self-admittedly) very low? If it's the latter, I can tell you straight up that it's not an alignment thing - look at my posting elsewhere on the site and you'll see that it's drastically down from my usual level as well.
I have a little time this evening if you or anyone wants to directly engage.
Can you talk a little about why you are voting Zionite? It seems like voting him directly in response to a quote claiming you're OMGUSing without elaborating at all kind of proves his point.
Really? I'll have to look at that again.
It's more about people's reads on you than you yourself.
It kind of does, actually, now that you've pointed it out. Oops. He's in my scum pile, and in the middle of my catch-up I just sort of snap voted him when I saw that post. In addition, I've had the feeling that Zionite's been called scum a lot but there hasn't been a lot of pressure on him?
I'll get to actually elaborating on my reads in a little bit, when I have time to go back and look at individual players. I just wanted to get to the point where I've at least read/skimmed everything.
As a person who's trying to get his bearings, can I ask where your vote currently is and why? I know I could find that out myself by paging through the thread, but I'd rather interact directly while I have you.
It's more about people's reads on you than you yourself.
It kind of does, actually, now that you've pointed it out. Oops. He's in my scum pile, and in the middle of my catch-up I just sort of snap voted him when I saw that post. In addition, I've had the feeling that Zionite's been called scum a lot but there hasn't been a lot of pressure on him?
I'll get to actually elaborating on my reads in a little bit, when I have time to go back and look at individual players. I just wanted to get to the point where I've at least read/skimmed everything.
As a person who's trying to get his bearings, can I ask where your vote currently is and why? I know I could find that out myself by paging through the thread, but I'd rather interact directly while I have you.
My vote is currently on EtR because he focused specifically on the Seer part of the claimed Seer/Gunsmith, but it seems that may have just been due to a confusion in terms so I'm not sold on the vote.
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I like the vote on Zionite but the reasoning for the vote is weird.
Hi Seppel!
I had a note that you called Axel scum and vote for him, but then switched your vote to someone Axel was voting for. Did you ever talk about that? Because I think that's really the only thing that bothered me about your slot.
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I guess I'll just put together a quick summary of why I don't like Zionite, since going for real-time interactions doesn't seem to be working out.
159 > I feel weird about him voting for someone with a (supposed) posting restriction and then claiming it's the best option. Given that Tordeck can't say much, I don't think we'd learn much from lynching him. It's a weird thing for Zionite to claim so early. And then I don't really like the sentence afterwards, he's just stating something that's completely redundant and looks to be there to pretty up his vote, or make it look more...justified, I guess.
212 > I don't like this vote, but at the same time, I can't really articulate why. It just feels fake. 'until we hear your thoughts' has the potential to look like a towny inquiry if he had asked Antny /specific/ questions, but. Eh.
502 > Reeeally don't like that post. Zionite barns Axelrod's case on Tapping Stones, votes with him, then turns around and says he's down to lynch either of them.
546 > So normally I'd agree that someone shouldn't be totally clear based on suspected unalignment with flipped scum, but at the same time, given that I have a scumread on Zionite, this post sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open. The strong language at the end of the first sentence is what's making me lean on him displaying the 'keeping mislynches open' mindset: the part where he says 'unless you have no doubts whatsoever [about their alignment]'. That just doesn't happen in mafia, unless you're the Cop or some other role that can confirm others. It reads as a way to argue against, well, clearing people. Or at least giving them some leeway depending on their interactions with flipped players. Also, he's referring to TappingStone's emotional reactions as strong evidence [of ??? something], but then immediately calls them a mystery. I don't really think TS being emotional is indicative of anything, given his slapfight with OceanBlack earlier in the game. He just seems like someone who likes poking the hornet's nest.
(That said, I hated his argument with OceanBlack. It didn't really seem necessary.)
Oh, Wildfire, I remembered now (as in I just went back to check).
You voted Nacho for his 'I'm town' declaration, and then put words in his mouth (saying he was excited to 'finally' be town, when really, he could just be happy to be town in a game where there's two chances to draw scum).
You don't have to draw scum several times to be excited to be town when that scumchain breaks. You can just be excited to be town in general. I prefer being town myself, it's a lot less stressful than trying to consistently fake being town.
Plus, I think you were focusing too much on something that ultimately didn't really matter.
And I don't really like the way you tried to claim your vote was RVS and based on a joke. OceanBlack asked you if you had a reason for your vote, and you provided one in a way that made it look serious. You voted for Nacho because he declared himself town, something you said he didn't do previously as either alignment, and you yourself imply that you think he did it because he rolled scum since he rolled town in his last handful of games. All of this indicates you had some thought/reasoning behind your vote, which means it's no longer something that can be passed off as a joke.
After that I don't remember much about your posts, so I questioned the townreads on you.
Last chain post, sorry, still getting used to how much slower games are here.
I don't buy that EtR focusing on the Seer part of whoever's claim (imabusinessman, I think) is a scumslip. If someone claims any type of Cop role on Day 1, and they aren't a Daycop immediately outing a guilty check, then of course it's going to garner more attention than the Gunsmith part.
Incidentally, I thought Gunsmith = can give someone a gun to make them a one-shot Vig. If Seer is to Werewolves as Gunsmith is to Mafia, then. It's like half a Cop. Which kind of sucks, but whatever.
(Is the definition of Gunsmith still under debate, or did I miss the resolution somewhere?)
My vote is currently on EtR because he focused specifically on the Seer part of the claimed Seer/Gunsmith, but it seems that may have just been due to a confusion in terms so I'm not sold on the vote.
that never really struck me as a slip. but EtR has done plenty of scummier things.
anywhere else youre considering putting your vote? id love to hear your reads.
@iso at a certain point, you have to start calling it a vote list instead of a vote count.
Is the definition of Gunsmith still under debate, or did I miss the resolution somewhere?
imab said it was detecting a gun. so basically, finds mafia/vig/paranoid gun owner. its basically the other half of cop except with more false positives.
but he also said his claim was because wifom, so we have no idea if its even true. or something. he still hasnt explained that and i feel like i've been bringing it up for a month.
I've been away from playing mafia for so long I can feel the rustiness. I've been run up first in nearly every game; I'm prepared to do it all again. I'd like it not to happen obviously, but I fully expect to be the first wagon because it's precedent. I'm entirely comfortable with this if we have nothing better to do. We might learn something. So I'll just speak frankly and keep the side-bets to a minimum.
Mayhem of text approaching. Onward, my apprentices. Steel yourselves!
Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
Bah, you are entirely correct. I forgot about the two teams. In this case, you have to evaluate individuals on their merit. Relationships can't be nailed down or even accurately used in cases without a heavy body-count of flips. Given this fact, TS being scum would gain Axelrod some town cred, but would not rule him out. If TS were town, then Axelrod would lose town cred. Can't get much more info than that. It's also worth mentioning that since we have two scum teams, those teams will be smaller, and thus will relationships be untenable. You might be able to discern when scum have failed to interact with each other in late-game analysis however.
@vaimes I do technically agree with zionite that tappingstones reactions are bad, but I don't like that he's using that to not be accountable. He is firmly in my suspicious list after his last couple posts
Iirc, I have wildfire leaning town. I'll have to figure out why from a computer :/
159 > I feel weird about him voting for someone with a (supposed) posting restriction and then claiming it's the best option. Given that Tordeck can't say much, I don't think we'd learn much from lynching him. It's a weird thing for Zionite to claim so early. And then I don't really like the sentence afterwards, he's just stating something that's completely redundant and looks to be there to pretty up his vote, or make it look more...justified, I guess.
Clearly I'd be explaining this one. So after RVS, I feel there is still very little to go on. On a scale weighing lynching Tordeck at this very moment versus lynching anyone else whom I have little to go on, it's a pretty good trade. I no longer have to worry about the lack of content from Tordeck. At the same time however, I know that this is unlikely to happen and my vote will move when I have more information. The vote also garners reactions, which is a good source of information.
212 > I don't like this vote, but at the same time, I can't really articulate why. It just feels fake. 'until we hear your thoughts' has the potential to look like a towny inquiry if he had asked Antny /specific/ questions, but. Eh.
So Antny knew full well what he was doing. Again, we whip out the scale: I ask myself who would I lynch right now as if I were a kingmaker. Tordeck's flip and wagon info (which would be tough to analyze) versus Antny's post and run away, knowingly violating mafia mores. Also again, this is about all I have to pick through this early with little info to go on. So I vote Antny until he plays the game.
Maybe it should be inferred from my post that I was asking why he voted someone and didn't explain it. I don't feel you need question marks to garner a response.
502 > Reeeally don't like that post. Zionite barns Axelrod's case on Tapping Stones, votes with him, then turns around and says he's down to lynch either of them.
Introducing Zionite's Scales of Justice™...TappingStones reactions (and w/ OceanBlack) versus preparatory wording from Axelrod? So far, my scales are still tipping on the TS side. This is based on said responses from TS with multiple occasions. It looks bad, and others see it so I know I'm not crazy. The other side is a bit lighter on the scale, with some solid posts I agreed with but a piece of evidence that adds some scum points. Either immediate lynch would be a good deal of information to me (less now that I remember about two teams).
546 > So normally I'd agree that someone shouldn't be totally clear based on suspected unalignment with flipped scum, but at the same time, given that I have a scumread on Zionite, this post sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open. The strong language at the end of the first sentence is what's making me lean on him displaying the 'keeping mislynches open' mindset: the part where he says 'unless you have no doubts whatsoever [about their alignment]'. That just doesn't happen in mafia, unless you're the Cop or some other role that can confirm others. It reads as a way to argue against, well, clearing people. Or at least giving them some leeway depending on their interactions with flipped players. Also, he's referring to TappingStone's emotional reactions as strong evidence [of ??? something], but then immediately calls them a mystery. I don't really think TS being emotional is indicative of anything, given his slapfight with OceanBlack earlier in the game. He just seems like someone who likes poking the hornet's nest.(That said, I hated his argument with OceanBlack. It didn't really seem necessary.)
This, I don't buy bolded here. You say you would agree with my logic, but because you are assuming I'm scum (and acknowledge you are doing so), your perception has changed. It's odd you would preface this way.
However, it's all up to the mixed bag the mod gives you whether something is confirmed or not. I wish to point out that there are degrees of towniness, and it's very hard to be confirmed. Something like reviver comes to mind, reviving a dead townie. But of course, it's up to the host. The dead townie could be recruited to a zombie cult or something. I absolutely want to argue against "clearing" players if it's based on faulty assumptions. As for TS, refer to my scales.
I've been away from playing mafia for so long I can feel the rustiness. I've been run up first in nearly every game; I'm prepared to do it all again. I'd like it not to happen obviously, but I fully expect to be the first wagon because it's precedent. I'm entirely comfortable with this if we have nothing better to do. We might learn something. So I'll just speak frankly and keep the side-bets to a minimum.
Well, this is certainly an interesting way to respond to a single vote.
I'd leave my vote where it is for this part of your post alone, but I'll go ahead and read it now to see if you can change my mind.
What information did you gather from the reactions to your Tordeck vote?
w/r/t the bolded, I'm trying to account for the context. In a vacuum, sure, not wanting to totally clear people is great. And maybe if that was one of your earlier posts, I even would have townread you for it. But now it just looks tainted.
Still waiting on Zionite to fess up to his lie. He claims that I posted he was "lean town" and in the next post said he was "very lynchable". I can't find this. Where are these posts. 4TH TIME I've asked for Zionite to provide the posts in question. I haven't dealt with this much evasive behavior since I began playing Mafia. But as Zionite has claimed he gets run up in day one often I can totally understand why.
UNVOTE; VOTE:ZIONITE
Answer my question. Where are these posts you speak of?
page by page breakdown of posts i find interesting, votes, and some comments in the spoiler, you can read it or not.
analysis below, which i suppose you can also not read
page 1
oceanblack - first post scumreads of jobie and wildfire. later adds gj for voting no lynch.
wildfire - votes nacho for claiming town, but backs off it when questioned
imab - "lol that was easy" and votes oceanblack. also claims.
nacho - "Town reads thus far in order of strength are Ocean, Johnny, Wildfire." votes me for seeming fake. also claims governor.
xyre - votes imab and asks him about his experience
page 2
zionite - votes xyre because imab is "probably not scum"
rodemy - asks silly question about obvious joke in rvs
xyre - calls necarg scum, doesnt vote
zionite - explains hes voting xyre to make more work for the mod. quotes xyres call out of necarg for "reasons". weird to me that these were in the same post
imab - the "because wifom" post ive been harping about. he also mentions not liking xyre/oceanblack and either liking johnny or liking the no lynch plan. not sure which this is also the first time i brought this post up. on november 1st. so not a month, just two weeks. feels like a month.
rodemy - jumps on nachos role. votes nacho
necarg - votes imab. "Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both."
xyre - changes vote to necarg, quoting necargs vote of imab
tordeck - votes imab. cant explain it (not his fault)
tappingstones - first two posts of the game are spent attacking me.
xyre - explains his vote on imab was because of his investigative role claim. "I disbelieve such claims on principal because they usually feel like a ploy."
page 3
oceanblack - does not understand tom. votes me.
dotarchon - suspicious of nacho
tappingstones - doesnt like oceanblack for, of all things, insulting me
oceanblack - jumps to tappingstones for "trying to fan the flames".
"TappingStones is my strongest read that eclipses my scumreads on any other player and it is at a different level than any of my other votes or suspicions"
commence the great OB/TS shouting match of 2015
.
.
.
seppel - tom is scum, oceanblack is town.
oceanblack farewell post. tom and tapping scum, nacho town.
page 4
seppel - tordeck doesnt have a posting restriction, xyre is scum,
dotarchon - revotes me. going with his gut after an iso?
imab - tordeck scum
zionite - jumps on tordeck
rodemy - incredibly stupid problem with wildfire. just unfathomably dumb. i stand by that.
rodemy - doesnt like that i answer questions not directed at me. finds something to grill me on.
jobie - strike one for xyre and imab. votes me.
rodemy - scumreads, in order: wildfire, tom, nacho
dotarchon - votes rodemy for wanting to test nachos claim
imab - tom is scum
rodemy - jumps on tom wagon
tappingstones - jumps on tom wagon
seppel - changes vote to dota for bad vote
nacho - votes necarg
dotarchon - unvotes because of attack from seppel
page 5
xyre - necarg and imab on different scum teams
necarg - jumps on tom
antny - jumps on tom
zionite - votes antny for jumping on tom
rodemy - jumps on antny
imab - dot is scum, tordeck town
nacho - unexplained vote for necarg
tappingstones - jumps on antny
imab - tom still scum
antny - switches to rodemy, no explanation
seppel - tom is incompetent but not scum, necarg is town, xyre is scum
also scumreading dotarchon
tapping - unvotes due to pressure
seppel - doesnt like zionite
page 6
axelrod - doesnt like tapping
wildfire - unvotes nacho, tom wagon is bad
johnny - votes necarg. also down to lynch dotarchon
zionite - unvotes antny
antny - still interested in tom lynch
axelrod - switches vote to tapping
imab - oceanblack/etr and tom are scum
seppel - dota is scum
zionite - joins axelrod on tapping
page 7
xyre - agrees with axelrod/zionite on tapping. keeps vote on necarg
jobie - unvotes "Since my wagon vote is no longer on a wagon"
imab - etr and tom are scum
tapping - "Tom is being hilariously transparent which I think is a plus at this point. Truly low hanging fruit. We definitely have stronger scum targets than him today."
imab - changes vote from oceanblack to etr
antny - votes tom
jobie - expresses interest in lynching tom for the health of the game
page 8
jobie - convinced by johnny to vote necarg
tappingstones - pov. ive talked about this enough
seppel - xyre slipped
jobie - unvote. im not a dick.
jobie - revotes necarg
etr - votes antny
tapping - begin fight with me. dont need to talk about this again
jobie - unvote
etr - long post on tappingstones. unvotes antny, but doesnt vote tapping
Town:
didnt find anything new to say about gentleman johnny, tordeck, wildfire, or xyre. my townreads are unchanged and unenthusiastic.
dotarchon said something i didnt like about doing an iso on me and then voting me because of a gut read. like, how hard is it to post some quotes and quick analysis when youre already doing that?
and then i realized how obvious a tell that was. a new scum player as consistently timid as dotarchon wouldnt do that.
overall, i think dotarchon is almost definitely town.
Undecided: axelrod apparently only said one thing i found interesting in the first 8 pages, which was his case on tappingstones. i was townreading tapping at this point, but it was a good one. i have nothing new on axelrod from this readthrough
jobie looks like bad scum. but i do know jobie is a good mafia player. shrug.
nacho promised to be very transparent with his reads because of his role. he has not really delivered.
i didnt realize until reread how little nacho has been around.
nothing would make me townread him except claim. ive heard a lot that no one would falseclaim governor, but its definitely possible.
he made a comment about showing someone the governor entry on the mafiascum wiki. is it possible that he read about that role and chose to claim it?
making him prove it is a pretty terrible move on our part. he may have realized that.
im not saying nacho is scum, but it is possible
oceanblack spent his whole time in this game yelling and drawing attention to himself. if he was scum, he was incredibly ballsy and had me fooled.
ive scumread etr a bit, but ob is pretty towny upon reread. not ready to put him in my town block, but i dont really want to lynch anymore.
rodemy
the word i would use to describe rodemy this game is "silly". i look forward to trying to read vaimes.
seppel has a lot of opinions, but doesnt really push them.
also claimed he saw slips from antny and xyre, but i dont really know what they were.
i could go either way
necarg
i like his attack on imab on page 2. he was, after all, joining me. but i dont like he ignored it from there. its not like it was resolved...
he also jumped on the tom wagon pretty late. could have been just trying to jump on a mislynch, but impossible to know.
this reread only went to page 8. will have to look at chris later.
Scum antny looks the same upon reread. hes either scum or *****ty town. kind of a wasted lynch the more i think about it.
sure, catching scum is great. but is this guy really going to beat us?
zionite's first vote is on xyre for voting for someone who "probably isnt scum". that probably is key.
second vote is on tordeck for his posting restriction being too restrictive
third vote is on antny for jumping on my wagon.
none of zionite's votes or reads are anything but playing it safe. perhaps scum trying not to rock the boat.
probably not enough on its own, but with the recent stuff i think im down to lynch.
imabusinessman
ive already done an iso of imab. i still think he looks terrible.
he has been scumreading me and ob/etr for a long ass time. having trouble believing neither of us have done anything to change his mind. rigidity in reads seems like a bad sign.
tappingstones spent his first two posts of the game attacking me. i assume leftover bad blood from predator, since he quoted my attack of him in that game
he then gets into it with oceanblack, but gets on the tom wagon at its height on page 4.
jumps on another wagon (antny) but jumps right back off when pressured.
later notes that i am transparent and not worth a lynch right before his infamous pov post. i dont feel the need to talk about that whole thing again.
his scum reads, namely me and oceanblack/EtR, have not changed all game.
suffice to say my reread did nothing to change my opinion here.
546 > So normally I'd agree that someone shouldn't be totally clear based on suspected unalignment with flipped scum, but at the same time, given that I have a scumread on Zionite, this post sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open.
This, I don't buy bolded here. You say you would agree with my logic, but because you are assuming I'm scum (and acknowledge you are doing so), your perception has changed. It's odd you would preface this way.
i now have a stronger opinion of vaimes than i ever managed to get from rodemy.
zionite is "winning" this exchange, but im not really sure if that means anything.
@vaimes please respond to that part of zionites post.
@zionite how many times have you been lynched? and how many were correct?
There are two interpretations of his logic: a towny one and a scummy one. I am inclined to lean more towards the scummy one because I haven't liked his posts throughout the game.
That's probably the result of confirmation bias, though. So I guess, in the end, it could just be null? Because, yes, I agree that people shouldn't be too quick/happy to clear others. A lot of it depends on circumstances, though. Interactions are never exactly alike and all that.
I'm curious as to what Zionite thinks of me, besides 'odd', since that isn't an alignment.
page by page breakdown of posts i find interesting, votes, and some comments in the spoiler, you can read it or not.
analysis below, which i suppose you can also not read
page 1
oceanblack - first post scumreads of jobie and wildfire. later adds gj for voting no lynch.
wildfire - votes nacho for claiming town, but backs off it when questioned
imab - "lol that was easy" and votes oceanblack. also claims.
nacho - "Town reads thus far in order of strength are Ocean, Johnny, Wildfire." votes me for seeming fake. also claims governor.
xyre - votes imab and asks him about his experience
page 2
zionite - votes xyre because imab is "probably not scum"
rodemy - asks silly question about obvious joke in rvs
xyre - calls necarg scum, doesnt vote
zionite - explains hes voting xyre to make more work for the mod. quotes xyres call out of necarg for "reasons". weird to me that these were in the same post
imab - the "because wifom" post ive been harping about. he also mentions not liking xyre/oceanblack and either liking johnny or liking the no lynch plan. not sure which this is also the first time i brought this post up. on november 1st. so not a month, just two weeks. feels like a month.
rodemy - jumps on nachos role. votes nacho
necarg - votes imab. "Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both."
xyre - changes vote to necarg, quoting necargs vote of imab
tordeck - votes imab. cant explain it (not his fault)
tappingstones - first two posts of the game are spent attacking me.
xyre - explains his vote on imab was because of his investigative role claim. "I disbelieve such claims on principal because they usually feel like a ploy."
page 3
oceanblack - does not understand tom. votes me.
dotarchon - suspicious of nacho
tappingstones - doesnt like oceanblack for, of all things, insulting me
oceanblack - jumps to tappingstones for "trying to fan the flames".
"TappingStones is my strongest read that eclipses my scumreads on any other player and it is at a different level than any of my other votes or suspicions"
commence the great OB/TS shouting match of 2015
.
.
.
seppel - tom is scum, oceanblack is town.
oceanblack farewell post. tom and tapping scum, nacho town.
page 4
seppel - tordeck doesnt have a posting restriction, xyre is scum,
dotarchon - revotes me. going with his gut after an iso?
imab - tordeck scum
zionite - jumps on tordeck
rodemy - incredibly stupid problem with wildfire. just unfathomably dumb. i stand by that.
rodemy - doesnt like that i answer questions not directed at me. finds something to grill me on.
jobie - strike one for xyre and imab. votes me.
rodemy - scumreads, in order: wildfire, tom, nacho
dotarchon - votes rodemy for wanting to test nachos claim
imab - tom is scum
rodemy - jumps on tom wagon
tappingstones - jumps on tom wagon
seppel - changes vote to dota for bad vote
nacho - votes necarg
dotarchon - unvotes because of attack from seppel
page 5
xyre - necarg and imab on different scum teams
necarg - jumps on tom
antny - jumps on tom
zionite - votes antny for jumping on tom
rodemy - jumps on antny
imab - dot is scum, tordeck town
nacho - unexplained vote for necarg
tappingstones - jumps on antny
imab - tom still scum
antny - switches to rodemy, no explanation
seppel - tom is incompetent but not scum, necarg is town, xyre is scum
also scumreading dotarchon
tapping - unvotes due to pressure
seppel - doesnt like zionite
page 6
axelrod - doesnt like tapping
wildfire - unvotes nacho, tom wagon is bad
johnny - votes necarg. also down to lynch dotarchon
zionite - unvotes antny
antny - still interested in tom lynch
axelrod - switches vote to tapping
imab - oceanblack/etr and tom are scum
seppel - dota is scum
zionite - joins axelrod on tapping
page 7
xyre - agrees with axelrod/zionite on tapping. keeps vote on necarg
jobie - unvotes "Since my wagon vote is no longer on a wagon"
imab - etr and tom are scum
tapping - "Tom is being hilariously transparent which I think is a plus at this point. Truly low hanging fruit. We definitely have stronger scum targets than him today."
imab - changes vote from oceanblack to etr
antny - votes tom
jobie - expresses interest in lynching tom for the health of the game
page 8
jobie - convinced by johnny to vote necarg
tappingstones - pov. ive talked about this enough
seppel - xyre slipped
jobie - unvote. im not a dick.
jobie - revotes necarg
etr - votes antny
tapping - begin fight with me. dont need to talk about this again
jobie - unvote
etr - long post on tappingstones. unvotes antny, but doesnt vote tapping
Town:
didnt find anything new to say about gentleman johnny, tordeck, wildfire, or xyre. my townreads are unchanged and unenthusiastic.
dotarchon said something i didnt like about doing an iso on me and then voting me because of a gut read. like, how hard is it to post some quotes and quick analysis when youre already doing that?
and then i realized how obvious a tell that was. a new scum player as consistently timid as dotarchon wouldnt do that.
overall, i think dotarchon is almost definitely town.
Undecided: axelrod apparently only said one thing i found interesting in the first 8 pages, which was his case on tappingstones. i was townreading tapping at this point, but it was a good one. i have nothing new on axelrod from this readthrough
jobie looks like bad scum. but i do know jobie is a good mafia player. shrug.
nacho promised to be very transparent with his reads because of his role. he has not really delivered.
i didnt realize until reread how little nacho has been around.
nothing would make me townread him except claim. ive heard a lot that no one would falseclaim governor, but its definitely possible.
he made a comment about showing someone the governor entry on the mafiascum wiki. is it possible that he read about that role and chose to claim it?
making him prove it is a pretty terrible move on our part. he may have realized that.
im not saying nacho is scum, but it is possible
oceanblack spent his whole time in this game yelling and drawing attention to himself. if he was scum, he was incredibly ballsy and had me fooled.
ive scumread etr a bit, but ob is pretty towny upon reread. not ready to put him in my town block, but i dont really want to lynch anymore.
rodemy
the word i would use to describe rodemy this game is "silly". i look forward to trying to read vaimes.
seppel has a lot of opinions, but doesnt really push them.
also claimed he saw slips from antny and xyre, but i dont really know what they were.
i could go either way
necarg
i like his attack on imab on page 2. he was, after all, joining me. but i dont like he ignored it from there. its not like it was resolved...
he also jumped on the tom wagon pretty late. could have been just trying to jump on a mislynch, but impossible to know.
this reread only went to page 8. will have to look at chris later.
Scum antny looks the same upon reread. hes either scum or *****ty town. kind of a wasted lynch the more i think about it.
sure, catching scum is great. but is this guy really going to beat us?
zionite's first vote is on xyre for voting for someone who "probably isnt scum". that probably is key.
second vote is on tordeck for his posting restriction being too restrictive
third vote is on antny for jumping on my wagon.
none of zionite's votes or reads are anything but playing it safe. perhaps scum trying not to rock the boat.
probably not enough on its own, but with the recent stuff i think im down to lynch.
imabusinessman
ive already done an iso of imab. i still think he looks terrible.
he has been scumreading me and ob/etr for a long ass time. having trouble believing neither of us have done anything to change his mind. rigidity in reads seems like a bad sign.
tappingstones spent his first two posts of the game attacking me. i assume leftover bad blood from predator, since he quoted my attack of him in that game
he then gets into it with oceanblack, but gets on the tom wagon at its height on page 4.
jumps on another wagon (antny) but jumps right back off when pressured.
later notes that i am transparent and not worth a lynch right before his infamous pov post. i dont feel the need to talk about that whole thing again.
his scum reads, namely me and oceanblack/EtR, have not changed all game.
suffice to say my reread did nothing to change my opinion here.
I see we have the same strong feeling about Zionite. Maybe that can be something for moving this game forward.
Other than that, this reads a little forced almost like you wanted to copy my similar post from earlier.
This has been easily the most suspect slot so far. OB's horrific play put him in a position for others to scrutinize him, but the problem is that he doesn't hold up to the scrutiny. #25 VOTES JOBIE and says WF is a good vote too. #26 confirms his vote is not RSV. #29 unvotes Jobie and naked votes GJ. (He's just looking to run someone up. Has no consideration of whether someone is actually scum, just wants to start a wagon.) #36 WF wisely points out OB saying scum is more likely to call out Nacho's announcment than town, but is still voting Jobie. (barn/ this) #76 Says GJ is trying to produce minimal content-scum motivated. Says Zionite is copying his read. Is evasive about axelrod's question. Tries to say it's scummy (this is the start of quite a few attacks where he says anyone who disagrees with him is scum). #87 Dodges Axelrod's question. Admits he hasn't answered the question. (Gives a bogus reason, check it out), again calls question scumy. #96 pointless post #98 links all of Tom's posts without any explanations. #101 Goes at Tom. Unvotes GJ VOTES TOM. Insults Tom's English based on paragraph spacing, capitalization, etc. #109 Very confrontational unvotes, now is on TS. (He's already voted how many people???) Essentially for asking him why he's attacking Tom's English and what mistakes he couldn't understand. #110 Admits he ignored info on Tom "for [his] own reasons". #111 Tom calls out OB for understanding yet saying he didn't understand. (it's unclear to all which posts were supposed to be "unclear/non-native") #112 Says TS is his top scum read.Accuses of "fanning the flames" (actually I was telling him to cut it out/asking what was unclear) #117 Tells me, If I disagreed with his post I shouldn't have commented. (WWHHAATT????) Makes up a wildly conspiratory post of TS's motives. (Is thinking from a scum mindset). #119 OB IMPLODES #120 continues implosion #122 Says Tom and I are opposite scum teams. #127 OB is getting zero support against me so lashes out at the player base. #132 Personal attacks against Tom and I. #149 replaces out. Says I am scum and Tom is a good lynch. Nacho is town. (duh)
Others also saw a scum slip but I think my case against him is solid enough without that. If you believe the scum slip then that's just icing on the cake for me. But I think this argument is pretty solid.
ETR/OceanBlack SCUM lynch or vig if you can.
Nacho- Currently town but I want more participation. We already have Nacho, Seppel, Wildfire, GJ and I to build a solid base around. I'm also feeling good about Jobie but need to see a lot more action and reads.
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
Necarg #58 Asks a random question. Says he disagrees with GJ and that he has no clear reads. #69 Calls out IABM VOTES IABM. #95 Xyre calls out Necarg as classic meta lurking scum. Gives decent reasoning. #205 Tom is scum. Trying very hard to give minimal input and is a bit nervous IMO.
Lean Scum
Axelrod #32 Asks a pointless question. #56 Asks OB why Jobie was a better vote than wildfire? VOTES XYRE says because "voting someone who probably isn't scum" #80 Says xyre is playing both sides. Clearly demonstrates xyre's suspect idea. #82 Calls out OB on "fixation" comment and strange "Why is my vote a concern?" Points out hostility. Calls out OB's conspiracy theory. #139 Tells OB to chill. Says he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Says he doesn't think OB is scum. (HUH??)
Lean Town-He's just playing poorly. He sees a lot of the scummy play in OB but doesn't want to rock the boat. Timid town (or scum I can't be sure). I'll lean town till I see more.
Zionite #40 Naked VOTES AXELROD. Shows dislike for GJ's no lynch plan. #41 Says Nacho "im town" is not a tell. Wildfire has no case. #63 Says he's voting to "make the mod do more work" (BAD joke, worse vote) Quotes the xyre post about Necarg but doesn't explain. #159 townreads TS, Tom, OB. VOTES TORDECK #300 barns axelrod and votes me #306 asks Tom to defend me, doesn't want to look himself. Particularly bizarre because it's transparent that he doesn't care about the answer. Asking Tom to do work for him. BIZARRE.
SCUM
XYRE #47 votes IABM. Asks how much experience he has. (I hate this vote) #62 Says Necarg is scum. #73 naked votes Necarg. #148 Asks Necarg his opinion of Tom? (trying to gauge the wagon?) #167 reiterates he thinks Necarg and IABM are scum. #301 "likes axelrod's TS post" #321 admits his IABM angle is busted.
Has been a walking disaster most of this game begging for people to vote for him.
Lean Scum proceed with lynch, I will support.
Last scum is between IABM and Tom. We can find this out in short order.
Working through your post:
Lean scum
DoTArchon, Sir Chris(Necarg), Xyre
Scum
EtR(OB), Zionite
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
This has been easily the most suspect slot so far. OB's horrific play put him in a position for others to scrutinize him, but the problem is that he doesn't hold up to the scrutiny. #25 VOTES JOBIE and says WF is a good vote too. #26 confirms his vote is not RSV. #29 unvotes Jobie and naked votes GJ. (He's just looking to run someone up. Has no consideration of whether someone is actually scum, just wants to start a wagon.) #36 WF wisely points out OB saying scum is more likely to call out Nacho's announcment than town, but is still voting Jobie. (barn/ this) #76 Says GJ is trying to produce minimal content-scum motivated. Says Zionite is copying his read. Is evasive about axelrod's question. Tries to say it's scummy (this is the start of quite a few attacks where he says anyone who disagrees with him is scum). #87 Dodges Axelrod's question. Admits he hasn't answered the question. (Gives a bogus reason, check it out), again calls question scumy. #96 pointless post #98 links all of Tom's posts without any explanations. #101 Goes at Tom. Unvotes GJ VOTES TOM. Insults Tom's English based on paragraph spacing, capitalization, etc. #109 Very confrontational unvotes, now is on TS. (He's already voted how many people???) Essentially for asking him why he's attacking Tom's English and what mistakes he couldn't understand. #110 Admits he ignored info on Tom "for [his] own reasons". #111 Tom calls out OB for understanding yet saying he didn't understand. (it's unclear to all which posts were supposed to be "unclear/non-native") #112 Says TS is his top scum read.Accuses of "fanning the flames" (actually I was telling him to cut it out/asking what was unclear) #117 Tells me, If I disagreed with his post I shouldn't have commented. (WWHHAATT????) Makes up a wildly conspiratory post of TS's motives. (Is thinking from a scum mindset). #119 OB IMPLODES #120 continues implosion #122 Says Tom and I are opposite scum teams. #127 OB is getting zero support against me so lashes out at the player base. #132 Personal attacks against Tom and I. #149 replaces out. Says I am scum and Tom is a good lynch. Nacho is town. (duh)
Others also saw a scum slip but I think my case against him is solid enough without that. If you believe the scum slip then that's just icing on the cake for me. But I think this argument is pretty solid.
ETR/OceanBlack SCUM lynch or vig if you can.
Nacho- Currently town but I want more participation. We already have Nacho, Seppel, Wildfire, GJ and I to build a solid base around. I'm also feeling good about Jobie but need to see a lot more action and reads.
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
Necarg #58 Asks a random question. Says he disagrees with GJ and that he has no clear reads. #69 Calls out IABM VOTES IABM. #95 Xyre calls out Necarg as classic meta lurking scum. Gives decent reasoning. #205 Tom is scum. Trying very hard to give minimal input and is a bit nervous IMO.
Lean Scum
Axelrod #32 Asks a pointless question. #56 Asks OB why Jobie was a better vote than wildfire? VOTES XYRE says because "voting someone who probably isn't scum" #80 Says xyre is playing both sides. Clearly demonstrates xyre's suspect idea. #82 Calls out OB on "fixation" comment and strange "Why is my vote a concern?" Points out hostility. Calls out OB's conspiracy theory. #139 Tells OB to chill. Says he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Says he doesn't think OB is scum. (HUH??)
Lean Town-He's just playing poorly. He sees a lot of the scummy play in OB but doesn't want to rock the boat. Timid town (or scum I can't be sure). I'll lean town till I see more.
Zionite #40 Naked VOTES AXELROD. Shows dislike for GJ's no lynch plan. #41 Says Nacho "im town" is not a tell. Wildfire has no case. #63 Says he's voting to "make the mod do more work" (BAD joke, worse vote) Quotes the xyre post about Necarg but doesn't explain. #159 townreads TS, Tom, OB. VOTES TORDECK #300 barns axelrod and votes me #306 asks Tom to defend me, doesn't want to look himself. Particularly bizarre because it's transparent that he doesn't care about the answer. Asking Tom to do work for him. BIZARRE.
SCUM
XYRE #47 votes IABM. Asks how much experience he has. (I hate this vote) #62 Says Necarg is scum. #73 naked votes Necarg. #148 Asks Necarg his opinion of Tom? (trying to gauge the wagon?) #167 reiterates he thinks Necarg and IABM are scum. #301 "likes axelrod's TS post" #321 admits his IABM angle is busted.
Has been a walking disaster most of this game begging for people to vote for him.
Lean Scum proceed with lynch, I will support.
Last scum is between IABM and Tom. We can find this out in short order.
Working through your post:
Lean scum
DoTArchon, Sir Chris(Necarg), Xyre
Scum
EtR(OB), Zionite
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
That's an old post DOTA. I'm off IABM. I was confused by his early play and what his PR actually could do. I'm much more comfortable with him now. "Lean town". As I explained to Seppel before the Necarg read was an acceptance of meta. Seppel and I played together in Amyril Seat and caught him very early. Sir Chris has played the way I expect good town to play. He participates, makes solid points and clearly articulates himself. "Lean town". You are undetermined at the moment.
Xyre, Zionite, Etr and Tom are all fine votes as far as I'm concerned. Zionite looking worse and worse as the game progresses. Xyre has been scummy throughout. Etr has brought zero to the game besides inheriting OB's bad arguments and Tom is largely irrelevant, even as scum. I'll lynch him if I have the chance but he's likely to continue to give up his scummates as time goes on.
I see we have the same strong feeling about Zionite. Maybe that can be something for moving this game forward.
Other than that, this reads a little forced almost like you wanted to copy my similar post from earlier.
by "copy my similar post" do you mean "look at a bunch of posts and analyze them"?
but yeah, zionite seems a fine lynch. ill jump on that wagon.
You didn't analyze them. You took your current ideas and tried to make them match what people said in the past. It's pretty transparent. The post is mostly void. But that's your game I guess.
Sir Chris asked you a solid question that you skirted. He asked why you're so confident of your reads? How many scum have you actually lynched Tom? I'm not that good yet either but you have made someone your "white whale" in both your games so far. In the first game you suspected Sir Chris and I (we were both town), in this game you are tunneling me (I'm town, S.C. still unclear but looks ok so far).
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
That's an old post DOTA. I'm off IABM. I was confused by his early play and what his PR actually could do. I'm much more comfortable with him now. "Lean town". As I explained to Seppel before the Necarg read was an acceptance of meta. Seppel and I played together in Amyril Seat and caught him very early. Sir Chris has played the way I expect good town to play. He participates, makes solid points and clearly articulates himself. "Lean town". You are undetermined at the moment.
Xyre, Zionite, Etr and Tom are all fine votes as far as I'm concerned. Zionite looking worse and worse as the game progresses. Xyre has been scummy throughout. Etr has brought zero to the game besides inheriting OB's bad arguments and Tom is largely irrelevant, even as scum. I'll lynch him if I have the chance but he's likely to continue to give up his scummates as time goes on.
My question is not about the who and why, but about the certainty with which you stated that there are 6 slots out of the 18 that are scum.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
Forgot to add this to my last post. You seemed dead set on hunting EtR but you don't seem to have interacted with him again since this post. Why is that?
You didn't analyze them. You took your current ideas and tried to make them match what people said in the past. It's pretty transparent. The post is mostly void. But that's your game I guess.
Sir Chris asked you a solid question that you skirted. He asked why you're so confident of your reads? How many scum have you actually lynched Tom? I'm not that good yet either but you have made someone your "white whale" in both your games so far. In the first game you suspected Sir Chris and I (we were both town), in this game you are tunneling me (I'm town, S.C. still unclear but looks ok so far).
it sure seemed like i was analyzing.
must have been mistaken.
but to answer, i have successfully lynched scum 100% of the time ive made it to the end of the day. i was even the very first to call out said scum.
do you want me to not be confident in my reads? you sure are confident enough in yours to not change them the entire game.
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
That's an old post DOTA. I'm off IABM. I was confused by his early play and what his PR actually could do. I'm much more comfortable with him now. "Lean town". As I explained to Seppel before the Necarg read was an acceptance of meta. Seppel and I played together in Amyril Seat and caught him very early. Sir Chris has played the way I expect good town to play. He participates, makes solid points and clearly articulates himself. "Lean town". You are undetermined at the moment.
Xyre, Zionite, Etr and Tom are all fine votes as far as I'm concerned. Zionite looking worse and worse as the game progresses. Xyre has been scummy throughout. Etr has brought zero to the game besides inheriting OB's bad arguments and Tom is largely irrelevant, even as scum. I'll lynch him if I have the chance but he's likely to continue to give up his scummates as time goes on.
My question is not about the who and why, but about the certainty with which you stated that there are 6 slots out of the 18 that are scum.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
Forgot to add this to my last post. You seemed dead set on hunting EtR but you don't seem to have interacted with him again since this post. Why is that?
Not certain of 6 I was pointing out who seemed scummy. Could be less or more, I'm not familiar with set-ups yet. Note that now I'm reading four players as scummy now (though I suspect with 2 teams there would be more).
In regards to etr-He dropped off the map a bit, he also hasn't said anything new. I'm mentioned on several occasions he'd make a good lynch and I've had my vote on him at times but I'm not a reliable reader of scum alignment yet. You can see in my Predator game that I struggled to find scum on my own but was very willing to see other's cases and help produce correct lynches (my lynch rate has been very strong so far, even if my reads haven't been. Iso attributed that to me voting against my reads).
ETR doesn't address A SINGLE THING in my long post of reads. Just gives a vauge answer that he doesn't like the post. WHAT doesn't he like? He disagrees with ALL my scum and town reads?? Town ETR would have been looking to react to my material case by case or at least focus on a few suspects that he wants to talk about.
Fine, if that's what you want, let's talk about your post. First, I'm going to bold all the times that you use language to paint the picture that you want.
This has been easily the most suspect slot so far. OB's horrific play put him in a position for others to scrutinize him, but the problem is that he doesn't hold up to the scrutiny. #25 VOTES JOBIE and says WF is a good vote too. #26 confirms his vote is not RSV. #29 unvotes Jobie and naked votes GJ. (He's just looking to run someone up. Has no consideration of whether someone is actually scum, just wants to start a wagon.) #36 WF wisely points out OB saying scum is more likely to call out Nacho's announcment than town, but is still voting Jobie. (barn/ this) #76 Says GJ is trying to produce minimal content-scum motivated. Says Zionite is copying his read. Is evasive about axelrod's question. Tries to say it's scummy (this is the start of quite a few attacks where he says anyone who disagrees with him is scum). #87 Dodges Axelrod's question. Admits he hasn't answered the question. (Gives a bogus reason, check it out), again calls question scumy. #96 pointless post #98 links all of Tom's posts without any explanations. #101 Goes at Tom. Unvotes GJ VOTES TOM. Insults Tom's English based on paragraph spacing, capitalization, etc. #109 Very confrontational unvotes, now is on TS. (He's already voted how many people???) Essentially for asking him why he's attacking Tom's English and what mistakes he couldn't understand. #110 Admits he ignored info on Tom "for [his] own reasons". #111 Tom calls out OB for understanding yet saying he didn't understand. (it's unclear to all which posts were supposed to be "unclear/non-native") #112 Says TS is his top scum read.Accuses of "fanning the flames" (actually I was telling him to cut it out/asking what was unclear) #117 Tells me, If I disagreed with his post I shouldn't have commented. (WWHHAATT????) Makes up a wildly conspiratory post of TS's motives. (Is thinking from a scum mindset). #119 OB IMPLODES #120 continues implosion #122 Says Tom and I are opposite scum teams. #127 OB is getting zero support against me so lashes out at the player base. #132 Personal attacks against Tom and I. #149 replaces out. Says I am scum and Tom is a good lynch. Nacho is town. (duh)
Others also saw a scum slip but I think my case against him is solid enough without that. If you believe the scum slip then that's just icing on the cake for me. But I think this argument is pretty solid.
ETR/OceanBlack SCUM lynch or vig if you can.
Nacho- Currently town but I want more participation. We already have Nacho, Seppel, Wildfire, GJ and I to build a solid base around. I'm also feeling good about Jobie but need to see a lot more action and reads.
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
Necarg #58 Asks a random question. Says he disagrees with GJ and that he has no clear reads. #69 Calls out IABM VOTES IABM. #95 Xyre calls out Necarg as classic meta lurking scum. Gives decent reasoning. #205 Tom is scum. Trying very hard to give minimal input and is a bit nervous IMO.
Lean Scum
Axelrod #32 Asks a pointless question. #56 Asks OB why Jobie was a better vote than wildfire? VOTES XYRE says because "voting someone who probably isn't scum" #80 Says xyre is playing both sides. Clearly demonstrates xyre's suspect idea. #82 Calls out OB on "fixation" comment and strange "Why is my vote a concern?" Points out hostility. Calls out OB's conspiracy theory. #139 Tells OB to chill. Says he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Says he doesn't think OB is scum. (HUH??)
Lean Town-He's just playing poorly. He sees a lot of the scummy play in OB but doesn't want to rock the boat. Timid town (or scum I can't be sure). I'll lean town till I see more.
Zionite #40 Naked VOTES AXELROD. Shows dislike for GJ's no lynch plan. #41 Says Nacho "im town" is not a tell. Wildfire has no case. #63 Says he's voting to "make the mod do more work" (BAD joke, worse vote) Quotes the xyre post about Necarg but doesn't explain. #159 townreads TS, Tom, OB. VOTES TORDECK #300 barns axelrod and votes me #306 asks Tom to defend me, doesn't want to look himself. Particularly bizarre because it's transparent that he doesn't care about the answer. Asking Tom to do work for him. BIZARRE.
SCUM
XYRE #47 votes IABM. Asks how much experience he has. (I hate this vote) #62 Says Necarg is scum. #73 naked votes Necarg. #148 Asks Necarg his opinion of Tom? (trying to gauge the wagon?) #167 reiterates he thinks Necarg and IABM are scum. #301 "likes axelrod's TS post" #321 admits his IABM angle is busted.
Has been a walking disaster most of this game begging for people to vote for him.
Lean Scum proceed with lynch, I will support.
Last scum is between IABM and Tom. We can find this out in short order.
Now, let's look deeper. You present a "case" on me. As you can see by the bolded language choices, you are pushing something that isn't there. OB had a disagreement and you're using that to push a weak case. You did not, at any point in this post describe how those actions were scum motivated, simply that they were.
Next, you present your thoughts on Nacho. You have Nacho as town, but provide quite literally no reasoning for it. You then proceed to group yourself with him and other town reads. This is clearly a buddying attempt.
DoTA, you have leaning scum. I assume the reasoning being that you didn't like a post and that town shouldn't be scared. I'd like more thoughts as to why town wouldn't be scared?
Necarg you have more opinion on, specifically that he is avoiding giving opinion and yet you only have him leaning scum. You have a very similar post for Axel but yet you have him leaning town. And even go so far as to excuse his play. How is Axel playing poorly in your opinion? You also include the possibility that he could be scum, which makes it appear that you are hedging your bets. What has he done that makes you think scum as opposed to timid town?
Zionite you call out as scum for bizarre play. How is Zionite's play to this point more bizarre than say, Tom or Necarg?
Lastly, Xyre is called out for being a "walking disaster" and yet you don't qualify it any more than saying he's been asking people to vote him "all game." How do you reconcile that mindset as scum?
Overall, you are pushing "cases" using charged language as I said before. there is very little factual information and you do not demonstrate how these posts show scum motivation.
I'm also going to Unvote Antny at this point. That vote isn't serving a purpose at this point.
Here you accuse him of misrepping you and don't answer any of the questions he put forward:
@Tom - I withheld my vote because I wanted to hear more from DoTA. His most recent post doesn't fully change my mind about him, but it does lessen my concerns.
Vote: TappingStones
No big surprise here. This slot has been the most poorly played so far this game. Etr gives an OMGUS vote right after I made a post that showed how scummy his slot has looked thus far.
Etr is merely playing for his own survival. He doesn't care about finding scum. The blatant misrep on my case of him confirms this. He high-lighted everything that I included about my thoughts and calls that "charged language". You aren't playing any better than OB which is unfortunate for you.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
@Tom - I withheld my vote because I wanted to hear more from DoTA. His most recent post doesn't fully change my mind about him, but it does lessen my concerns.
Vote: TappingStones
No big surprise here. This slot has been the most poorly played so far this game. Etr gives an OMGUS vote right after I made a post that showed how scummy his slot has looked thus far.
Etr is merely playing for his own survival. He doesn't care about finding scum. The blatant misrep on my case of him confirms this. He high-lighted everything that I included about my thoughts and calls that "charged language". You aren't playing any better than OB which is unfortunate for you.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
Just so we're clear, you had me as scum, in part, for not addressing your post. Now I've addressed your post and asked several questions and you are not going to address them? This further shows that you are not interested in anything but mud slinging.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
You say he dropped off the map a bit and hasn't said anything new since you posted the "I'm hunting you" comment, but ignored his responses to it. This is why I asked about your lack of further interaction with him.
No clue. We can only speculate as to the setup at the moment, after a few Days we'll have more to work with.
"Last scum is xxx" has a very definite tone to it though, as if you know how many players you're looking for.
I like the vote on Zionite but the reasoning for the vote is weird.
Hi Seppel!
I had a note that you called Axel scum and vote for him, but then switched your vote to someone Axel was voting for. Did you ever talk about that? Because I think that's really the only thing that bothered me about your slot.
I wield my vote and use it to the best of my ability. Axelrod is bugging me, but I think Xyre is more likely to flip scum than him.
Last chain post, sorry, still getting used to how much slower games are here.
I don't buy that EtR focusing on the Seer part of whoever's claim (imabusinessman, I think) is a scumslip. If someone claims any type of Cop role on Day 1, and they aren't a Daycop immediately outing a guilty check, then of course it's going to garner more attention than the Gunsmith part.
Incidentally, I thought Gunsmith = can give someone a gun to make them a one-shot Vig. If Seer is to Werewolves as Gunsmith is to Mafia, then. It's like half a Cop. Which kind of sucks, but whatever.
(Is the definition of Gunsmith still under debate, or did I miss the resolution somewhere?)
You missed the resolution. Gunsmith is a mafia cop, Seer is a werewolf cop.
You said you're down for his wagon, but have applied zero pressure.
i like my vote where it is, thank you very much. you are still by far the scummiest player.
You're so innocent Tom. You never answered S.C.'s rather strong question. Why are you under some idea that you can read people? You'd lived through exactly one night in your mafia career and were day killed by someone that didn't even suspect you as scum. He (and others wanted you dead because your play was so poor). You hounded S.C. and I the entire game and guess what...we were both town. Now I'm town again and S.C. hasn't done anything to break with the last town game I played with him.
You have no idea what a townread even looks like. What does a town player do Tom? Explain it to all of us please...with your vast knowledge.
I do want it on the record now that it's fairly obvious that Tom is going to continue to "hover" his vote over me until an opportunistic wagon presents itself. His last response was similar to what I thought he'd say when pressed on why he hasn't applied any pressure to someone he's called scummy multiple times.
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This is an out of the blue attack on a read. I explained why Tordeck is probably town. If you would like to refute that reason then go ahead.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
Move onto someone else, Tom.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
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that said, i think the case is made and unless he actually responds to it instead of deflecting, i dont really feel the need to talk about it anymore.
have you finished reading yet? anyone youre looking at besides dotarchon? this is the clearly correct answer. not sure if zionite missed it or is just trying to town clear one of them for reasons of his own.
This post is pinging. Yes you sometimes get it right when it comes to town reads under scrutiny. But you sometimes get it wrong.
Zionite in Animal mafia
Vezokpiraka in Final fantasy.
You also hard defended the cyan trainwreck in a avante garde.
I'm phone posting so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but can you tell me your opinion on seppel and gentleman Johnny?
Yeah I haven't read yet, probably not going to bother. Current events are a bit more interesting, like why won't you take my word for a town read. Dude kinda snapped, is super fussy, I mean what did you do in predator to make you think to yourself "I know how to town read people super well" I mean not to be mean about it but you kinda led town on a few wild goose chases. Let jesus take the wheel here tbh.
@ business guy
Okay I feel the need to point out that one of those examples is town, and I never said perfect accuracy. Just crazy accuracy.
Plus the two fails were people I'd never played with before, I get better when I know them, and I know TS pretty well after grilling him hard in predator. I mean if you want to ding someone for being wrong every once in awhile I mean I guess we can't trust anyone's reads ever let's SET THE WORLD ABLAZE.
Haven't read many posts by seppel or GJ, nothing has caught my attention. Should something have caught my eye? I am not really inclined to read everything, but if you want my eyes on something in particular I'll be glad to read it for you.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I really don't like this. Especially since you specifically mention that tom probably displayed a scumtell, but then you include the underlined to leave yourself a way out.
But I'll look into you later.
Unvote whomever
Vote Zionite
@people with townreads on Wildfire: why? Please be specific. I saw a couple of people with Wildfire in their upper townreads, I think, and I can't even remember seeing Wildfire ever posting, or even being talked about all that much.
I don't know how I feel about that.
@dot hes not trying to town clear, but he is giving town points. It may be an oversight, forgetting there's two scum teams. But it may be more nefarious. That's all I'm saying.
@chris really? You want us to trust your reads but are not going to read the whole thread? You can't have it both ways.
@vaimes I do technically agree with zionite that tappingstones reactions are bad, but I don't like that he's using that to not be accountable. He is firmly in my suspicious list after his last couple posts
Iirc, I have wildfire leaning town. I'll have to figure out why from a computer :/
I was very active on the first few pages as I had the week off of work.
Do you have something specifically you've disliked about anything I've said? Or is it just the fact that my activity level has been (self-admittedly) very low? If it's the latter, I can tell you straight up that it's not an alignment thing - look at my posting elsewhere on the site and you'll see that it's drastically down from my usual level as well.
I have a little time this evening if you or anyone wants to directly engage.
Can you talk a little about why you are voting Zionite? It seems like voting him directly in response to a quote claiming you're OMGUSing without elaborating at all kind of proves his point.
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Really? I'll have to look at that again.
It's more about people's reads on you than you yourself.
It kind of does, actually, now that you've pointed it out. Oops. He's in my scum pile, and in the middle of my catch-up I just sort of snap voted him when I saw that post. In addition, I've had the feeling that Zionite's been called scum a lot but there hasn't been a lot of pressure on him?
I'll get to actually elaborating on my reads in a little bit, when I have time to go back and look at individual players. I just wanted to get to the point where I've at least read/skimmed everything.
As a person who's trying to get his bearings, can I ask where your vote currently is and why? I know I could find that out myself by paging through the thread, but I'd rather interact directly while I have you.
My vote is currently on EtR because he focused specifically on the Seer part of the claimed Seer/Gunsmith, but it seems that may have just been due to a confusion in terms so I'm not sold on the vote.
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Hi Seppel!
I had a note that you called Axel scum and vote for him, but then switched your vote to someone Axel was voting for. Did you ever talk about that? Because I think that's really the only thing that bothered me about your slot.
Sir Chris (1): Nachomamma8
Vaimes (1): Antny223
TappingStones (3): Zionite, EtR, tomsloger
EtR (2): Wildfire393, imabusinessman
tomsloger (3): TappingStones, DoTArchon, Jobie
DoTArchon (1): Sir Chris
Xyre (3): Axelrod, Seppel, Tordeck
Jobie (1): Xyre
Zionite (1): Vaimes
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
159 > I feel weird about him voting for someone with a (supposed) posting restriction and then claiming it's the best option. Given that Tordeck can't say much, I don't think we'd learn much from lynching him. It's a weird thing for Zionite to claim so early. And then I don't really like the sentence afterwards, he's just stating something that's completely redundant and looks to be there to pretty up his vote, or make it look more...justified, I guess.
212 > I don't like this vote, but at the same time, I can't really articulate why. It just feels fake. 'until we hear your thoughts' has the potential to look like a towny inquiry if he had asked Antny /specific/ questions, but. Eh.
502 > Reeeally don't like that post. Zionite barns Axelrod's case on Tapping Stones, votes with him, then turns around and says he's down to lynch either of them.
546 > So normally I'd agree that someone shouldn't be totally clear based on suspected unalignment with flipped scum, but at the same time, given that I have a scumread on Zionite, this post sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open. The strong language at the end of the first sentence is what's making me lean on him displaying the 'keeping mislynches open' mindset: the part where he says 'unless you have no doubts whatsoever [about their alignment]'. That just doesn't happen in mafia, unless you're the Cop or some other role that can confirm others. It reads as a way to argue against, well, clearing people. Or at least giving them some leeway depending on their interactions with flipped players. Also, he's referring to TappingStone's emotional reactions as strong evidence [of ??? something], but then immediately calls them a mystery. I don't really think TS being emotional is indicative of anything, given his slapfight with OceanBlack earlier in the game. He just seems like someone who likes poking the hornet's nest.
(That said, I hated his argument with OceanBlack. It didn't really seem necessary.)
You voted Nacho for his 'I'm town' declaration, and then put words in his mouth (saying he was excited to 'finally' be town, when really, he could just be happy to be town in a game where there's two chances to draw scum).
You don't have to draw scum several times to be excited to be town when that scumchain breaks. You can just be excited to be town in general. I prefer being town myself, it's a lot less stressful than trying to consistently fake being town.
Plus, I think you were focusing too much on something that ultimately didn't really matter.
And I don't really like the way you tried to claim your vote was RVS and based on a joke. OceanBlack asked you if you had a reason for your vote, and you provided one in a way that made it look serious. You voted for Nacho because he declared himself town, something you said he didn't do previously as either alignment, and you yourself imply that you think he did it because he rolled scum since he rolled town in his last handful of games. All of this indicates you had some thought/reasoning behind your vote, which means it's no longer something that can be passed off as a joke.
After that I don't remember much about your posts, so I questioned the townreads on you.
I don't buy that EtR focusing on the Seer part of whoever's claim (imabusinessman, I think) is a scumslip. If someone claims any type of Cop role on Day 1, and they aren't a Daycop immediately outing a guilty check, then of course it's going to garner more attention than the Gunsmith part.
Incidentally, I thought Gunsmith = can give someone a gun to make them a one-shot Vig. If Seer is to Werewolves as Gunsmith is to Mafia, then. It's like half a Cop. Which kind of sucks, but whatever.
(Is the definition of Gunsmith still under debate, or did I miss the resolution somewhere?)
that never really struck me as a slip. but EtR has done plenty of scummier things.
anywhere else youre considering putting your vote? id love to hear your reads.
@iso at a certain point, you have to start calling it a vote list instead of a vote count.
imab said it was detecting a gun. so basically, finds mafia/vig/paranoid gun owner. its basically the other half of cop except with more false positives.
but he also said his claim was because wifom, so we have no idea if its even true. or something. he still hasnt explained that and i feel like i've been bringing it up for a month.
Mayhem of text approaching. Onward, my apprentices. Steel yourselves!
Bah, you are entirely correct. I forgot about the two teams. In this case, you have to evaluate individuals on their merit. Relationships can't be nailed down or even accurately used in cases without a heavy body-count of flips. Given this fact, TS being scum would gain Axelrod some town cred, but would not rule him out. If TS were town, then Axelrod would lose town cred. Can't get much more info than that. It's also worth mentioning that since we have two scum teams, those teams will be smaller, and thus will relationships be untenable. You might be able to discern when scum have failed to interact with each other in late-game analysis however.
Like, how am I failing to take accountability?
Actually, there was nothing to respond to, only "I don't like Zionite". I was waiting for substance, and I thank you for providing it.
Clearly I'd be explaining this one. So after RVS, I feel there is still very little to go on. On a scale weighing lynching Tordeck at this very moment versus lynching anyone else whom I have little to go on, it's a pretty good trade. I no longer have to worry about the lack of content from Tordeck. At the same time however, I know that this is unlikely to happen and my vote will move when I have more information. The vote also garners reactions, which is a good source of information.
Keeping up...
So Antny knew full well what he was doing. Again, we whip out the scale: I ask myself who would I lynch right now as if I were a kingmaker. Tordeck's flip and wagon info (which would be tough to analyze) versus Antny's post and run away, knowingly violating mafia mores. Also again, this is about all I have to pick through this early with little info to go on. So I vote Antny until he plays the game.
Maybe it should be inferred from my post that I was asking why he voted someone and didn't explain it. I don't feel you need question marks to garner a response.
Introducing Zionite's Scales of Justice™...TappingStones reactions (and w/ OceanBlack) versus preparatory wording from Axelrod? So far, my scales are still tipping on the TS side. This is based on said responses from TS with multiple occasions. It looks bad, and others see it so I know I'm not crazy. The other side is a bit lighter on the scale, with some solid posts I agreed with but a piece of evidence that adds some scum points. Either immediate lynch would be a good deal of information to me (less now that I remember about two teams).
This, I don't buy bolded here. You say you would agree with my logic, but because you are assuming I'm scum (and acknowledge you are doing so), your perception has changed. It's odd you would preface this way.
However, it's all up to the mixed bag the mod gives you whether something is confirmed or not. I wish to point out that there are degrees of towniness, and it's very hard to be confirmed. Something like reviver comes to mind, reviving a dead townie. But of course, it's up to the host. The dead townie could be recruited to a zombie cult or something. I absolutely want to argue against "clearing" players if it's based on faulty assumptions. As for TS, refer to my scales.
Well, this is certainly an interesting way to respond to a single vote.
I'd leave my vote where it is for this part of your post alone, but I'll go ahead and read it now to see if you can change my mind.
What information did you gather from the reactions to your Tordeck vote?
w/r/t the bolded, I'm trying to account for the context. In a vacuum, sure, not wanting to totally clear people is great. And maybe if that was one of your earlier posts, I even would have townread you for it. But now it just looks tainted.
Uh.
What is this in response to?
UNVOTE; VOTE:ZIONITE
Answer my question. Where are these posts you speak of?
analysis below, which i suppose you can also not read
oceanblack - first post scumreads of jobie and wildfire. later adds gj for voting no lynch.
wildfire - votes nacho for claiming town, but backs off it when questioned
imab - "lol that was easy" and votes oceanblack. also claims.
nacho - "Town reads thus far in order of strength are Ocean, Johnny, Wildfire." votes me for seeming fake. also claims governor.
xyre - votes imab and asks him about his experience
page 2
zionite - votes xyre because imab is "probably not scum"
rodemy - asks silly question about obvious joke in rvs
xyre - calls necarg scum, doesnt vote
zionite - explains hes voting xyre to make more work for the mod. quotes xyres call out of necarg for "reasons". weird to me that these were in the same post
imab - the "because wifom" post ive been harping about. he also mentions not liking xyre/oceanblack and either liking johnny or liking the no lynch plan. not sure which
this is also the first time i brought this post up. on november 1st. so not a month, just two weeks. feels like a month.
rodemy - jumps on nachos role. votes nacho
necarg - votes imab. "Calling it here, either scum, drunk, or both."
xyre - changes vote to necarg, quoting necargs vote of imab
tordeck - votes imab. cant explain it (not his fault)
tappingstones - first two posts of the game are spent attacking me.
xyre - explains his vote on imab was because of his investigative role claim. "I disbelieve such claims on principal because they usually feel like a ploy."
page 3
oceanblack - does not understand tom. votes me.
dotarchon - suspicious of nacho
tappingstones - doesnt like oceanblack for, of all things, insulting me
oceanblack - jumps to tappingstones for "trying to fan the flames".
"TappingStones is my strongest read that eclipses my scumreads on any other player and it is at a different level than any of my other votes or suspicions"
commence the great OB/TS shouting match of 2015
.
.
.
seppel - tom is scum, oceanblack is town.
oceanblack farewell post. tom and tapping scum, nacho town.
page 4
seppel - tordeck doesnt have a posting restriction, xyre is scum,
dotarchon - revotes me. going with his gut after an iso?
imab - tordeck scum
zionite - jumps on tordeck
rodemy - incredibly stupid problem with wildfire. just unfathomably dumb. i stand by that.
rodemy - doesnt like that i answer questions not directed at me. finds something to grill me on.
jobie - strike one for xyre and imab. votes me.
rodemy - scumreads, in order: wildfire, tom, nacho
dotarchon - votes rodemy for wanting to test nachos claim
imab - tom is scum
rodemy - jumps on tom wagon
tappingstones - jumps on tom wagon
seppel - changes vote to dota for bad vote
nacho - votes necarg
dotarchon - unvotes because of attack from seppel
page 5
xyre - necarg and imab on different scum teams
necarg - jumps on tom
antny - jumps on tom
zionite - votes antny for jumping on tom
rodemy - jumps on antny
imab - dot is scum, tordeck town
nacho - unexplained vote for necarg
tappingstones - jumps on antny
imab - tom still scum
antny - switches to rodemy, no explanation
seppel - tom is incompetent but not scum, necarg is town, xyre is scum
also scumreading dotarchon
tapping - unvotes due to pressure
seppel - doesnt like zionite
page 6
axelrod - doesnt like tapping
wildfire - unvotes nacho, tom wagon is bad
johnny - votes necarg. also down to lynch dotarchon
zionite - unvotes antny
antny - still interested in tom lynch
axelrod - switches vote to tapping
imab - oceanblack/etr and tom are scum
seppel - dota is scum
zionite - joins axelrod on tapping
page 7
xyre - agrees with axelrod/zionite on tapping. keeps vote on necarg
jobie - unvotes "Since my wagon vote is no longer on a wagon"
imab - etr and tom are scum
tapping - "Tom is being hilariously transparent which I think is a plus at this point. Truly low hanging fruit. We definitely have stronger scum targets than him today."
imab - changes vote from oceanblack to etr
antny - votes tom
jobie - expresses interest in lynching tom for the health of the game
page 8
jobie - convinced by johnny to vote necarg
tappingstones - pov. ive talked about this enough
seppel - xyre slipped
jobie - unvote. im not a dick.
jobie - revotes necarg
etr - votes antny
tapping - begin fight with me. dont need to talk about this again
jobie - unvote
etr - long post on tappingstones. unvotes antny, but doesnt vote tapping
Town:
didnt find anything new to say about gentleman johnny, tordeck, wildfire, or xyre. my townreads are unchanged and unenthusiastic.
dotarchon said something i didnt like about doing an iso on me and then voting me because of a gut read. like, how hard is it to post some quotes and quick analysis when youre already doing that?
and then i realized how obvious a tell that was. a new scum player as consistently timid as dotarchon wouldnt do that.
overall, i think dotarchon is almost definitely town.
Undecided:
axelrod apparently only said one thing i found interesting in the first 8 pages, which was his case on tappingstones. i was townreading tapping at this point, but it was a good one. i have nothing new on axelrod from this readthrough
jobie looks like bad scum. but i do know jobie is a good mafia player. shrug.
nacho promised to be very transparent with his reads because of his role. he has not really delivered.
i didnt realize until reread how little nacho has been around.
nothing would make me townread him except claim. ive heard a lot that no one would falseclaim governor, but its definitely possible.
he made a comment about showing someone the governor entry on the mafiascum wiki. is it possible that he read about that role and chose to claim it?
making him prove it is a pretty terrible move on our part. he may have realized that.
im not saying nacho is scum, but it is possible
oceanblack spent his whole time in this game yelling and drawing attention to himself. if he was scum, he was incredibly ballsy and had me fooled.
ive scumread etr a bit, but ob is pretty towny upon reread. not ready to put him in my town block, but i dont really want to lynch anymore.
rodemy
the word i would use to describe rodemy this game is "silly". i look forward to trying to read vaimes.
seppel has a lot of opinions, but doesnt really push them.
also claimed he saw slips from antny and xyre, but i dont really know what they were.
i could go either way
necarg
i like his attack on imab on page 2. he was, after all, joining me. but i dont like he ignored it from there. its not like it was resolved...
he also jumped on the tom wagon pretty late. could have been just trying to jump on a mislynch, but impossible to know.
this reread only went to page 8. will have to look at chris later.
Scum
antny looks the same upon reread. hes either scum or *****ty town. kind of a wasted lynch the more i think about it.
sure, catching scum is great. but is this guy really going to beat us?
zionite's first vote is on xyre for voting for someone who "probably isnt scum". that probably is key.
second vote is on tordeck for his posting restriction being too restrictive
third vote is on antny for jumping on my wagon.
none of zionite's votes or reads are anything but playing it safe. perhaps scum trying not to rock the boat.
probably not enough on its own, but with the recent stuff i think im down to lynch.
imabusinessman
ive already done an iso of imab. i still think he looks terrible.
he has been scumreading me and ob/etr for a long ass time. having trouble believing neither of us have done anything to change his mind. rigidity in reads seems like a bad sign.
tappingstones spent his first two posts of the game attacking me. i assume leftover bad blood from predator, since he quoted my attack of him in that game
he then gets into it with oceanblack, but gets on the tom wagon at its height on page 4.
jumps on another wagon (antny) but jumps right back off when pressured.
later notes that i am transparent and not worth a lynch right before his infamous pov post. i dont feel the need to talk about that whole thing again.
his scum reads, namely me and oceanblack/EtR, have not changed all game.
suffice to say my reread did nothing to change my opinion here.
zionite is "winning" this exchange, but im not really sure if that means anything.
@vaimes please respond to that part of zionites post.
@zionite how many times have you been lynched? and how many were correct?
There are two interpretations of his logic: a towny one and a scummy one. I am inclined to lean more towards the scummy one because I haven't liked his posts throughout the game.
That's probably the result of confirmation bias, though. So I guess, in the end, it could just be null? Because, yes, I agree that people shouldn't be too quick/happy to clear others. A lot of it depends on circumstances, though. Interactions are never exactly alike and all that.
I'm curious as to what Zionite thinks of me, besides 'odd', since that isn't an alignment.
I see we have the same strong feeling about Zionite. Maybe that can be something for moving this game forward.
Other than that, this reads a little forced almost like you wanted to copy my similar post from earlier.
Working through your post:
Lean scum
DoTArchon, Sir Chris(Necarg), Xyre
Scum
EtR(OB), Zionite
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
but yeah, zionite seems a fine lynch. ill jump on that wagon.
That's an old post DOTA. I'm off IABM. I was confused by his early play and what his PR actually could do. I'm much more comfortable with him now. "Lean town". As I explained to Seppel before the Necarg read was an acceptance of meta. Seppel and I played together in Amyril Seat and caught him very early. Sir Chris has played the way I expect good town to play. He participates, makes solid points and clearly articulates himself. "Lean town". You are undetermined at the moment.
Xyre, Zionite, Etr and Tom are all fine votes as far as I'm concerned. Zionite looking worse and worse as the game progresses. Xyre has been scummy throughout. Etr has brought zero to the game besides inheriting OB's bad arguments and Tom is largely irrelevant, even as scum. I'll lynch him if I have the chance but he's likely to continue to give up his scummates as time goes on.
You didn't analyze them. You took your current ideas and tried to make them match what people said in the past. It's pretty transparent. The post is mostly void. But that's your game I guess.
Sir Chris asked you a solid question that you skirted. He asked why you're so confident of your reads? How many scum have you actually lynched Tom? I'm not that good yet either but you have made someone your "white whale" in both your games so far. In the first game you suspected Sir Chris and I (we were both town), in this game you are tunneling me (I'm town, S.C. still unclear but looks ok so far).
My question is not about the who and why, but about the certainty with which you stated that there are 6 slots out of the 18 that are scum.
Forgot to add this to my last post. You seemed dead set on hunting EtR but you don't seem to have interacted with him again since this post. Why is that?
must have been mistaken.
but to answer, i have successfully lynched scum 100% of the time ive made it to the end of the day. i was even the very first to call out said scum.
do you want me to not be confident in my reads? you sure are confident enough in yours to not change them the entire game.
Not certain of 6 I was pointing out who seemed scummy. Could be less or more, I'm not familiar with set-ups yet. Note that now I'm reading four players as scummy now (though I suspect with 2 teams there would be more).
In regards to etr-He dropped off the map a bit, he also hasn't said anything new. I'm mentioned on several occasions he'd make a good lynch and I've had my vote on him at times but I'm not a reliable reader of scum alignment yet. You can see in my Predator game that I struggled to find scum on my own but was very willing to see other's cases and help produce correct lynches (my lynch rate has been very strong so far, even if my reads haven't been. Iso attributed that to me voting against my reads).
Do you think there are less than 6?
Here you accuse him of misrepping you and don't answer any of the questions he put forward:
Then he tried engaging with you here:
You say he dropped off the map a bit and hasn't said anything new since you posted the "I'm hunting you" comment, but ignored his responses to it. This is why I asked about your lack of further interaction with him.
-------------------------------
No clue. We can only speculate as to the setup at the moment, after a few Days we'll have more to work with.
"Last scum is xxx" has a very definite tone to it though, as if you know how many players you're looking for.
Also, unvote, vote Zionite
You missed the resolution. Gunsmith is a mafia cop, Seer is a werewolf cop.
You said you're down for his wagon, but have applied zero pressure.
You're so innocent Tom. You never answered S.C.'s rather strong question. Why are you under some idea that you can read people? You'd lived through exactly one night in your mafia career and were day killed by someone that didn't even suspect you as scum. He (and others wanted you dead because your play was so poor). You hounded S.C. and I the entire game and guess what...we were both town. Now I'm town again and S.C. hasn't done anything to break with the last town game I played with him.
You have no idea what a townread even looks like. What does a town player do Tom? Explain it to all of us please...with your vast knowledge.