[b]@ Necarg[/b]: Rather than respond to me, you asked Seppel a question about his characterization of my question. Again: what's your opinion of tomsloger?
Also thanks for reminding me why I initially voted Tom: What he said sounded like Silver Rage. (Getting mad that you couldn't do something townie.) His whole "I wish I thought of it" is very off-putting.
I happen to also think that Tom is scum, but could you show your work?
Done. Now it's your turn. Show your work.
Regarding TS's lack of vote: TS votes, with passion. It bothered me that TS didn't post a vote throughout the entire exchange. What is your basis for a town read on TS?
Finally, you've got people voting you but you decided to quote me. Twice. Why?
Tom is scum for a few reasons. The "wish I thought of that" is a big way to not produce content, I feel like tom is indeed smart enough to heave a bucket of WIFOM onto us, and I haven't really seen him actually hunt scum yet. Also,
He never even expanded on WHY he ever thought xyre was scum. I know he unvoted, but he never expanded on his original reasoning, leading me to believe he never actually thought xyre was scum, or couldn't find legit evidence.
Calling WIFOM for WIFOM's sake is WIFOM. But the rest are reasonable to be voting tom.
I quoted you instead of people who voted me because I don't give a crap that 2 people are voting me. I have a null read on Xyre, and a town read on Nacho, so I didn't feel the need to quote one of them. tl;dr version: 2 << 10, so I don't care.
Necarg is probably town.
And again. Because that post (Necarg's) seems weird to me, too. He's basically saying he doesn't care what someone has to say as soon as they vote for him, and that he'd rather talk to skeptical allies than enemies. That seems un-townie to me, at least in as far as the critics have a basis for their statements. Most players I've met are interested in proving their innocence against valid criticism, and largely just shrug off passing votes. tl;dr "haters gonna hate" warrants deeper analysis, not a free pass.
Necarg: "I think Tom is scum for <REASON A> and <REASON B>"
Xyre: "Necarg's case is partially plagiarized!"
Mind blown. Seriously you're not even reading what you're typing. That is the most poisonous way I could ever see "me too!" get turned into an attack on someone. Cases beyond the original are always going to be "partially plagiarized." Suddenly if you agree with someone's reasons, your case can be attacked for plagiarism? What a load of garbage. That happens all the time.
[b]Unvote, vote Xyre[/b] if I'm not already
Are YOU even reading what I'm typing? You narrowed down on one word choice and ignored the fact that his ENTIRE post consisted of lousy reasons to lynch.
I'm not saying making an argument which another player has already made is a scum tell in and of itself. That's your straw man talking. What I'm saying is that Necarg's entire post consisted of terrible arguments - trite, hypocritical, or stolen. He had an opportunity to make a contribution to the game, and instead did the bare minimum necessary to appear to be reasonable. It's not scummy to make an argument another player has made, but his behavior is precisely consistent with a lurking scum (which, again, appears to be how Necarg plays as scum, based on his past games).
Instead of just picking little pieces to confirm your gut reaction, would you please respond substantially to my actual arguments?
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
DoTArchon is probably scum.
You came after me for what I said about Nachos, but when I do the same to Rodemy for going after Nachos, you say I'm scum... Why does this make me scummy?
Unvote.
You're being malicious. Rodemy is just being foolish.
Mistaken maybe, but I never intended to come across as malicious. To me, it seemed counter-intuitive for Rodemy to say he doesn't support a no-lynch but then want Nachos to prove his claim.
Dot is scum. Tordek probably town which makes me real sad.
Why do you think I'm scum? You've quoted the same post that Seppel did when he called me scum, but without providing reasons for why it stands out to you.
Also, you've played a ton of games with me. By this point, you should know I have an idiosyncratic writing style. If you can point to any time I ever used a particular word over another to slime another player, in ten years of playing the game, I'd be happy to eat crow.
I don't know why your drive-by criticism style is agitating me so much. But there you go.
1: confirm
2: im so behind, ill catch up later
3: oh look, a wagon. vote
4: nothing
what would be the town motivation to just joining a wagon without reading the thread?
as for jobie, i think a scum jobie doesnt draw attention to himself over a dumb rvs argument. but this is not a real read. he is barely playing so far.
Anty was well aware that he hadn't done anything more than show up and follow the biggest wagon. Do you think that he as scum thought that he could get away with mislynching you with a post like that?
The reason a townie would post that is laziness, which is the reason for the post as either alignment. Because of the point above, the scum motivation is mitigated.
He is by no means town, but the vote is shallow.
Votes are also used to apply pressure. If he is scum then he hasn't helped himself by drawing a few votes and creating negative attention for himself. If he's town he should start playing ball, because a lazy town player is a liability IMO. No one wants to lynch him Nacho, but we do want more effort.
Still skimming, but this post gave me all kinds of heebie-jeebies. Especially that last line. Specifically saying he's just voting to "apply pressure" and make said player "play ball", even though "no one wants to lynch him."
Yuck.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Antny: And why is it serious? What is it about Rodemy that makes him an attractive lynch target to you?
@Seppel: I get using town powers on him if you have no other choice, but why is it on Antny's terms and not the towns? Why 'lock it in' instead of leaving it up to the player with the power?
Just looks like bad play from where I'm sitting, and anti-town. I'm keeping up with other players but not having as strong as an opinion on it as this. I won't tolerate it, especially if Antny ends up being scum.
@Antny: And why is it serious? What is it about Rodemy that makes him an attractive lynch target to you?
Firstly, is this not just the same question twice. I wouldn't normally care but second questions wording just feels really off.
To answer the question(s), it was the hesitation. Rodemy should have snap voted in 209 if he found me scummy. Instead he held off until Zion placed a vote and Tom said he found my post bad before reacting.
Iso's constant push for massclaims day 1 and 2, I really want to stick it to him and do the polar oppisite of pouring information into the thread, by holding it.
I have a reason to believe the town has a ton of power, due to their being two scum groups. I am also aware of what could happen if it would succeed and who would or wouldn't be targeted. On top of all that, there is a chance that a cross kill or two may happen.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
I have no interest in no lynching because "there could be crosskills, we have a lot of power, stick it to Iso". Having a town directed kill is a benefit to town, and lynching during the day doesn't make crosskills less likely and it doesn't mean we can't use the power that we have.
However, don't really think Gentleman Johnny is scum despite pushing his crazy-town case; he's putting himself out there quite a bit by pushing said crazy-town case and I don't actually believe that him as scum believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching, so.
I like this section of Nacho's post for it's logic. It shows that he is actually looking for motivation and not just jumping on something. He also voted for Tom in this post, which I don't agree with at this point.
Not sure that I believe the posting restriction being implied here. The song in question isn't even titled "Yo, Vanilla." It's "Ice, Ice, Baby." Unless the restriction is lyrics and not title, in which case, Tordeck could be giving us a lot more content.
Axelrod's #80 is a good post questioning Xyre's stance. With IABM claiming Seer (which I guess is a cop for werewolf games), Xyre has set up a lose lose situation regardless of his results.
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
On one hand you call out Xyre for not showing his work but yet you do the same thing in this train of thought. Show your work. Also did you have a vote out on anyone at this point?
I thought I was voting tomsloger but apparently I'm not...
Unvote: oceanblack vote: tomsloger
IABM originally made it seem that his vote on me was due to being a seer. He then moves forward with a different vote. What was your original vote on Ocean based on?
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
I'm concerned about the twist of words that DoTA is pulling here. Rodemy never said anything about pardoning at this point. Only asked for his thoughts.
Alright. I want to post what I have up to this point. i'll post more as I read through page 5 if needed. otherwise, I'll jump in.
Does your vote for Nachomamma8 have anything to do with his declaration that he was town?
Yes, actually. Looking at his recently-completed games, this isn't something he's done as either alignment. And he's been town in his most-recent handful so it's not like he has a reason to be excited to "finally" be town.
I don't buy it. "Because rvs" What were you calling out "he did" I am actually serious in this question.
I never played governer but here is why i thought it wasnt town:
We vote someone we think is scum and we go to lynch, he can stop it, lynchee is not flipped, and we go to night. Is this a one shot per person? Because that sounds like you can stop a scum from being lynched once. Not multiple times. I can see it as a scum role. You can save them once and move on, we wont know their alignment (which in a two scumteam game, seems pretty useful)
How can town benefit from this role? It kind of means that we have to agree with him or we get a no lynch. If he is scum, he can use this to destroy the entire town.
Why am i the only one who sees this power as evil?
As for proving it: we send someone up to lynch, mkay? He will HAVE to "pardon" that person regardless, and then what? It just proves he can stop lynches.
He can also just run someone up using this claim as a guide and then "oops" roleblocked.
I don't like this claim out front after wildfire was convieniently egging him on about claiming town. It seems forced and preplanned, esspecially since he explained the "benifits" of claiming and how there is no way this can be scum.
That being said, Wildfire, answer my question.
@Antny: It was this post of his. When I first read it I got the impression that the bolded, specifically that "m'kay", was him suggesting that we run a wagon up to get Nachos to prove his claim. I have a bad habit of reading too much into small things like that and basing a case on it. Hasn't always worked out for me.
@DotArchon - Not sure if I'm getting you here. I agree that the post sounds like Rodemy wanting to get a wagon going simply to prove Nacho's claim, but I don't think that was on his mind when he voted me. Rodemy can freely claim this is the case if he wants...
@Antny: And why is it serious? What is it about Rodemy that makes him an attractive lynch target to you?
Firstly, is this not just the same question twice. I wouldn't normally care but second questions wording just feels really off.
To answer the question(s), it was the hesitation. Rodemy should have snap voted in 209 if he found me scummy. Instead he held off until Zion placed a vote and Tom said he found my post bad before reacting.
.... First off, what i SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do is a matter of your opinion, second, I voted you the instant I saw your response (the quote) I was giving you a chance to redeem yourself.
Lastly, If you notice by my post DIRECTLY After the vote, you can see how i voted you first and then proceeded to answer the post towards me after yours. So suck it, die scum. love you. Bye.
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Ugh.. i can see how that sounds like me being for him proving it, but that is not how i wanted it to sound. My actions afterwords (which seem to be confusing you guys) should prove that.
The "mkay" was kind of like my reaction to how it was stated he should prove it.
Think of it this way
Person: We can prove it by running someone up!
Me: mkay? He will have to pardon that person regardless! (of alignment) That just proves he an stop lynches.
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Iso's constant push for massclaims day 1 and 2, I really want to stick it to him and do the polar oppisite of pouring information into the thread, by holding it.
I have a reason to believe the town has a ton of power, due to their being two scum groups. I am also aware of what could happen if it would succeed and who would or wouldn't be targeted. On top of all that, there is a chance that a cross kill or two may happen.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
I have no interest in no lynching because "there could be crosskills, we have a lot of power, stick it to Iso". Having a town directed kill is a benefit to town, and lynching during the day doesn't make crosskills less likely and it doesn't mean we can't use the power that we have.
However, don't really think Gentleman Johnny is scum despite pushing his crazy-town case; he's putting himself out there quite a bit by pushing said crazy-town case and I don't actually believe that him as scum believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching, so.
I like this section of Nacho's post for it's logic. It shows that he is actually looking for motivation and not just jumping on something. He also voted for Tom in this post, which I don't agree with at this point.
Not sure that I believe the posting restriction being implied here. The song in question isn't even titled "Yo, Vanilla." It's "Ice, Ice, Baby." Unless the restriction is lyrics and not title, in which case, Tordeck could be giving us a lot more content.
Axelrod's #80 is a good post questioning Xyre's stance. With IABM claiming Seer (which I guess is a cop for werewolf games), Xyre has set up a lose lose situation regardless of his results.
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
On one hand you call out Xyre for not showing his work but yet you do the same thing in this train of thought. Show your work. Also did you have a vote out on anyone at this point?
I thought I was voting tomsloger but apparently I'm not...
Unvote: oceanblack vote: tomsloger
IABM originally made it seem that his vote on me was due to being a seer. He then moves forward with a different vote. What was your original vote on Ocean based on?
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
I'm concerned about the twist of words that DoTA is pulling here. Rodemy never said anything about pardoning at this point. Only asked for his thoughts.
Alright. I want to post what I have up to this point. i'll post more as I read through page 5 if needed. otherwise, I'll jump in.
@DotArchon - Not sure if I'm getting you here. I agree that the post sounds like Rodemy wanting to get a wagon going simply to prove Nacho's claim, but I don't think that was on his mind when he voted me. Rodemy can freely claim this is the case if he wants...
I'm confused. I was responding to your saying that I was twisting Rodemy's words. He had voted for Wildfire and Tomsloger at that point. What does any of that have to do with his vote on you?
@Antny: And why is it serious? What is it about Rodemy that makes him an attractive lynch target to you?
Firstly, is this not just the same question twice. I wouldn't normally care but second questions wording just feels really off.
To answer the question(s), it was the hesitation. Rodemy should have snap voted in 209 if he found me scummy. Instead he held off until Zion placed a vote and Tom said he found my post bad before reacting.
.... First off, what i SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do is a matter of your opinion,
Well, yeah, but technically isn't all behaviour analyse a matter of opinion in this game.
second, I voted you the instant I saw your response (the quote) I was giving you a chance to redeem yourself.
The point is, there was little reason to hold off. My response was empty (deliberately so), but what did happen was other players chimed in to say I was scummy. If you were waiting for me to redeem myself you would have waited a little longer than a dozen or so posts.
Lastly, If you notice by my post DIRECTLY After the vote, you can see how i voted you first and then proceeded to answer the post towards me after yours. So suck it, die scum. love you. Bye.
In fact, if you want to make it up to me you could always vote Rodemy.
Hmm... You want to start a wagon on me based on my vote on you.(or at least when it was placed.) Yet you don't acknowledge how *****ty your initial post was. I mean, anyone could have voted you after that and they would kind of be in the right for it. But you are going after me specifically.. why?
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So what if I followed other people. Hypothetically, if that is what I did, what if I just agree with them because their thoughts on you align with mine? Like, how the hell is any of that scummy?
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In fact, if you want to make it up to me you could always vote Rodemy.
Hmm... You want to start a wagon on me based on my vote on you.(or at least when it was placed.) Yet you don't acknowledge how *****ty your initial post was. I mean, anyone could have voted you after that and they would kind of be in the right for it. But you are going after me specifically.. why?
Reasons explained in post you've already read. Unless there's a specific thing I don't see the point in going over it again.
So what if I followed other people. Hypothetically, if that is what I did, what if I just agree with them because their thoughts on you align with mine? Like, how the hell is any of that scummy?
I'm not a fan of going too deep on these hypothetical points because it seems like your leaving yourself wriggle room to back away if anything damning comes out.
The problem I have is you indicated you had doubts with my post but you didn't want to act until you saw other players agree. Scum tend to want the safety of support rather than going it alone which is why they will often not be the first slot on a wagon but wait until a townie to give them a green light. That's kinda why wagon analysis is a thing.
Iso's constant push for massclaims day 1 and 2, I really want to stick it to him and do the polar oppisite of pouring information into the thread, by holding it.
I have a reason to believe the town has a ton of power, due to their being two scum groups. I am also aware of what could happen if it would succeed and who would or wouldn't be targeted. On top of all that, there is a chance that a cross kill or two may happen.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
I have no interest in no lynching because "there could be crosskills, we have a lot of power, stick it to Iso". Having a town directed kill is a benefit to town, and lynching during the day doesn't make crosskills less likely and it doesn't mean we can't use the power that we have.
However, don't really think Gentleman Johnny is scum despite pushing his crazy-town case; he's putting himself out there quite a bit by pushing said crazy-town case and I don't actually believe that him as scum believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching, so.
I like this section of Nacho's post for it's logic. It shows that he is actually looking for motivation and not just jumping on something. He also voted for Tom in this post, which I don't agree with at this point.
Not sure that I believe the posting restriction being implied here. The song in question isn't even titled "Yo, Vanilla." It's "Ice, Ice, Baby." Unless the restriction is lyrics and not title, in which case, Tordeck could be giving us a lot more content.
Axelrod's #80 is a good post questioning Xyre's stance. With IABM claiming Seer (which I guess is a cop for werewolf games), Xyre has set up a lose lose situation regardless of his results.
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
On one hand you call out Xyre for not showing his work but yet you do the same thing in this train of thought. Show your work. Also did you have a vote out on anyone at this point?
I thought I was voting tomsloger but apparently I'm not...
Unvote: oceanblack vote: tomsloger
IABM originally made it seem that his vote on me was due to being a seer. He then moves forward with a different vote. What was your original vote on Ocean based on?
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
I'm concerned about the twist of words that DoTA is pulling here. Rodemy never said anything about pardoning at this point. Only asked for his thoughts.
Alright. I want to post what I have up to this point. i'll post more as I read through page 5 if needed. otherwise, I'll jump in.
</blockquote>
Phone posting so I can't address everything people have Posted.
I claim one shot seer one shot gunsmith and ETR is only concerned about seer. Sets off my alarm bells.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
It means I am aware of who might be targeted if no lynch was successful, and still felt no lynch was beneficial. I don't want to be any clearer than that.
Completely against Tomsloger, though I wish he would tone down number of posts, unless Jobie wants to shoot him again. I am perfectly happy with stringing up DotaArchon or Necarg. The former's interaction with Rodemy looks manipulative, and shady. The latter seems super conscious about his behavior and his "I quoted you instead of people who voted me because I don't give a crap that 2 people are voting me." seems like he actually does, or he wouldn't have stated it outright.
Still skimming, but this post gave me all kinds of heebie-jeebies. Especially that last line. Specifically saying he's just voting to "apply pressure" and make said player "play ball", even though "no one wants to lynch him."
Yuck.
this is definitely tappingstones' MO. not tryna be condescending, but i think he fancies himself the enforcer.
im town reading him for other stuff, but this is a null read
@Seppel: I get using town powers on him if you have no other choice, but why is it on Antny's terms and not the towns? Why 'lock it in' instead of leaving it up to the player with the power?
Just looks like bad play from where I'm sitting, and anti-town. I'm keeping up with other players but not having as strong as an opinion on it as this. I won't tolerate it, especially if Antny ends up being scum.
in which zionite confirms he and seppel are not scum together. i guess this is a much less useful piece of knowledge with two scum teams. sigh.
@EtR "yo vanilla" is technically a track on the album. its 4 seconds long, but it exists
shrug
tordeck may be lying. also may be scum.
but, like, bigger fish to fry
antny now has a bunch of posts and still hasnt really said anything.
hes making an effort to be a part of the game, but its all so hollow.
the case on rodemy is trite, but frankly its more than i can come up with on rodemy.
i am in favor of just letting them both be for now.
well, im in favor of letting everyone who isnt imabusinessman be for now. at least until he can get on a computer and say something of substance.
@Tordeck: You never mentioned before you could do multiple song titles in sequence. Why haven't you tried to use this before? It would have been useful information to have.
I'm strongly sensing Rodemy imploding here. I'm not trying to use charged language, but it strikes me as odd. Specifically 262. Is this normal for anyone?
@Antny that's a reasonable and satisfying explanation. UNVOTE
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In fact, if you want to make it up to me you could always vote Rodemy.
Hmm... You want to start a wagon on me based on my vote on you.(or at least when it was placed.) Yet you don't acknowledge how *****ty your initial post was. I mean, anyone could have voted you after that and they would kind of be in the right for it. But you are going after me specifically.. why?
Reasons explained in post you've already read. Unless there's a specific thing I don't see the point in going over it again.
So what if I followed other people. Hypothetically, if that is what I did, what if I just agree with them because their thoughts on you align with mine? Like, how the hell is any of that scummy?
I'm not a fan of going too deep on these hypothetical points because it seems like your leaving yourself wriggle room to back away if anything damning comes out.
The problem I have is you indicated you had doubts with my post but you didn't want to act until you saw other players agree. Scum tend to want the safety of support rather than going it alone which is why they will often not be the first slot on a wagon but wait until a townie to give them a green light. That's kinda why wagon analysis is a thing.
I told you i voted you the instance i saw your response. You keep saying i waited until other people gave support.
We wont agree on this and i think that is a *****ty case against me on your end.
I'm strongly sensing Rodemy imploding here. I'm not trying to use charged language, but it strikes me as odd. Specifically 262. Is this normal for anyone?
@Antny that's a reasonable and satisfying explanation. UNVOTE
._. I see nothing reasonable about him stating i did somethibg i didn't.
And yeah, me being pissed off at stupidity is pretty much my norm
In other news, I WILL BE V/LA TIL SUNDAY EVE. ISO, YEW KNOW WHYYYYYY♡♡♤♤
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It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Annoying when others don't give reasons or put in effort to post isn't it?
Ok, I cared enough to comment because I'd like everyone posting and giving their ideas. This way it's harder for scum to hide and easier for townies to identify each other. I can't see if you're on my side or not if you're going to put zero effort in.
I'm strongly sensing Rodemy imploding here. I'm not trying to use charged language, but it strikes me as odd. Specifically 262. Is this normal for anyone?
@Antny that's a reasonable and satisfying explanation. UNVOTE
from what I remember of him from the last times I played, I don't think this is anything out of the ordinary. Have you played with him before?
I went back and looked closer at TappingStones to see if that one post I didn't like was an outlier or not, and it wasn't. TappingStones whole style of play is rubbing me wrong and he's doing a number of suspect things:
He started the game agreeing with someone (Nacho?) that Tomsloger was playing different in this game than in his last one. The implication here is that this is suspicious, but I don't like the way it's done. Because difference in playstyle is NOT actually indicative of much of anything. MAYBE it indicates a different kind of role than the one you had before, but maybe not, and it definitely doesn't indicate a different alignment. But that's really his only point about Tom. "He's playing differently."
Then he gets into a spat with Oceansblack about whether Oceansblack is being too insulting to other players. This also is completely non-alignment indicative, and TappingStones seems to know it, but keeps harping on it. He even flatly accuses Oceansblack of lying, but at the very same time says "now this doesn't mean you are scum..." What's even going on here? This isn't scum-hunting. It's some kind of bizarre confrontational style which reaches no conclusions at all.
Then he finally votes Tom, but, again, the reason appears strictly to be based on this supposed difference in play-style from this game and the last. Which is a terrible (but easy) reason to vote.
This vote is quickly abandoned, however, to vote Antny, for not putting in enough effort. And then there's the post that first caught my eye, where he even says that he's not trying to lynch Antny, but just to make him put in more effort. Another thing I didn't like about that post was how he used the Royal "We" in responding to Nacho - i.e. "It's not just me who feels this way...I'm with someone else on this...WE both feel this way..." It's too buddy-buddy. He's shielding himself and also giving himself an out to scum-hunting. Because he's voting on principle or something. And exactly what kind of pressure do you think you're going to put on someone to post when you are saying at the exact same time you vote them that you don't want to lynch them?
There's a claim that this is TappingStones style - to try and put pressure on the lurkers early - which I have no idea if that's true or not. But even if that is supposedly true, I don't actually see him doing much of this at all in this game. He's not pressuring anyone, lurker or not. He's not scumhunting. He's made some insinuations against a couple of people, and argued a completely irrelevant issue, but given no strong opinions.
This last post is typical:
Looking into Necarg, Imabusinessman and Rodemy.
Anyone want to tell me there main thoughts on them while I do my reread?
He's "looking into" them, without stating any actual opinions, and at the same time trying to get other people to give their opinions - which I guess he can then crib off of if it suits his game?
Nothing good going on here.
Unvote Xyre;
Vote: TappingStones
I intend to do a close read of TomsLoger next. And then *shudder* maybe Rodemy.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Because I realized only townies fake post restriction because they're crumbing power and want to draw NK. I'm sad because most people who fake post restrictions at least have the courtesy to do so in a way that they can still post good content. For example, only posting in haiku, Gifs or images. Posting in song titles prevents that. It means he's just going to be dead weight for town until he gets bored with it.
1. I see I'm already voting OB's slot.
2. tomsloger's posts have scum intent in them. Every one of his reads is phony.
His "i cant' read rodemiy...oh wait rodemy is scum...i can't read rodemy. Refuses to interact with a person he can't read. His ONLY interaction is when Rodemy calls him out on not making any case. Then he makes a case that's filled with loaded language and filler.
Claims that he wants necarg to post. When it gets pointed out that votes can be used to apply pressure he votes the person who points this out to him.
Compare what he said in 181 to what he wrote in post 94.
His opinions in this game are contrived. And to top it off, did he actually just say he's not going to post until I post again KNOWING FULL WELL that that could be hours later?
[b]@ Necarg[/b]: Rather than respond to me, you asked Seppel a question about his characterization of my question. Again: what's your opinion of tomsloger?
Also thanks for reminding me why I initially voted Tom: What he said sounded like Silver Rage. (Getting mad that you couldn't do something townie.) His whole "I wish I thought of it" is very off-putting.
I happen to also think that Tom is scum, but could you show your work?
Done. Now it's your turn. Show your work.
Regarding TS's lack of vote: TS votes, with passion. It bothered me that TS didn't post a vote throughout the entire exchange. What is your basis for a town read on TS?
Finally, you've got people voting you but you decided to quote me. Twice. Why?
Tom is scum for a few reasons. The "wish I thought of that" is a big way to not produce content, I feel like tom is indeed smart enough to heave a bucket of WIFOM onto us, and I haven't really seen him actually hunt scum yet. Also,
He never even expanded on WHY he ever thought xyre was scum. I know he unvoted, but he never expanded on his original reasoning, leading me to believe he never actually thought xyre was scum, or couldn't find legit evidence.
Calling WIFOM for WIFOM's sake is WIFOM. But the rest are reasonable to be voting tom.
Substantiate, please.
Based on what I heard about predator, someone who has no experience with Tom is most likely going to find these results salacious.
...now if Necarg was in Predator mafia then we have an issue
CAN SOMEONE CHECK PLEASE MY TIME IS LIMITED GOTTA GO FAST
And again. Because that post (Necarg's) seems weird to me, too. He's basically saying he doesn't care what someone has to say as soon as they vote for him, and that he'd rather talk to skeptical allies than enemies. That seems un-townie to me, at least in as far as the critics have a basis for their statements. Most players I've met are interested in proving their innocence against valid criticism, and largely just shrug off passing votes. tl;dr "haters gonna hate" warrants deeper analysis, not a free pass.
That jives with a town mindset. Necarg is notorious as scum for saying "I don't have reads D1" and tosses around thoughts that don't correspond with his previous posts. I'm not seeing that here. He's finally scumhunting.
This post is a quotemess.
Are YOU even reading what I'm typing? You narrowed down on one word choice and ignored the fact that his ENTIRE post consisted of lousy reasons to lynch.
"Hey don't look at that loaded word I typed!! Look at my whole post!! I can defend against that!!"
[...]his behavior is precisely consistent with a lurking scum (which, again, appears to be how Necarg plays as scum, based on his past games).
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
DoTArchon is probably scum.
You came after me for what I said about Nachos, but when I do the same to Rodemy for going after Nachos, you say I'm scum... Why does this make me scummy?
[b]Unvote.[/b]
You're being malicious. Rodemy is just being foolish.
Mistaken maybe, but I never intended to come across as malicious. To me, it seemed counter-intuitive for Rodemy to say he doesn't support a no-lynch but then want Nachos to prove his claim.
You changed from convinced to "mistaken" super fast.
Also, you've played a ton of games with me. By this point, you should know I have an idiosyncratic writing style. If you can point to any time I ever used a particular word over another to slime another player, in ten years of playing the game, I'd be happy to eat crow.
I don't know why your drive-by criticism style is agitating me so much. But there you go.
@Antny: And why is it serious? What is it about Rodemy that makes him an attractive lynch target to you?
@Seppel: I get using town powers on him if you have no other choice, but why is it on Antny's terms and not the towns? Why 'lock it in' instead of leaving it up to the player with the power?
Just looks like bad play from where I'm sitting, and anti-town. I'm keeping up with other players but not having as strong as an opinion on it as this. I won't tolerate it, especially if Antny ends up being scum.
how do you plan to get it to be on the town's terms
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
It means I am aware of who might be targeted if no lynch was successful, and still felt no lynch was beneficial. I don't want to be any clearer than that.
Completely against Tomsloger, though I wish he would tone down number of posts, unless Jobie wants to shoot him again. I am perfectly happy with stringing up DotaArchon or Necarg. The former's interaction with Rodemy looks manipulative, and shady. The latter seems super conscious about his behavior and his "I quoted you instead of people who voted me because I don't give a crap that 2 people are voting me." seems like he actually does, or he wouldn't have stated it outright.
Then he gets into a spat with Oceansblack about whether Oceansblack is being too insulting to other players. This also is completely non-alignment indicative, and TappingStones seems to know it, but keeps harping on it. He even flatly accuses Oceansblack of lying, but at the very same time says "now this doesn't mean you are scum..." What's even going on here? This isn't scum-hunting. It's some kind of bizarre confrontational style which reaches no conclusions at all.
I'm strongly sensing Rodemy imploding here. I'm not trying to use charged language, but it strikes me as odd. Specifically 262. Is this normal for anyone?
@Antny that's a reasonable and satisfying explanation. UNVOTE
from what I remember of him from the last times I played, I don't think this is anything out of the ordinary. Have you played with him before?
Nope. Not that I can recall. If the emotion doesn't strike anyone familiar with him as odd, I'll mark it as null.
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Substantiate, please.
And again. Because that post (Necarg's) seems weird to me, too. He's basically saying he doesn't care what someone has to say as soon as they vote for him, and that he'd rather talk to skeptical allies than enemies. That seems un-townie to me, at least in as far as the critics have a basis for their statements. Most players I've met are interested in proving their innocence against valid criticism, and largely just shrug off passing votes. tl;dr "haters gonna hate" warrants deeper analysis, not a free pass.
Are YOU even reading what I'm typing? You narrowed down on one word choice and ignored the fact that his ENTIRE post consisted of lousy reasons to lynch.
I'm not saying making an argument which another player has already made is a scum tell in and of itself. That's your straw man talking. What I'm saying is that Necarg's entire post consisted of terrible arguments - trite, hypocritical, or stolen. He had an opportunity to make a contribution to the game, and instead did the bare minimum necessary to appear to be reasonable. It's not scummy to make an argument another player has made, but his behavior is precisely consistent with a lurking scum (which, again, appears to be how Necarg plays as scum, based on his past games).
Instead of just picking little pieces to confirm your gut reaction, would you please respond substantially to my actual arguments?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mistaken maybe, but I never intended to come across as malicious. To me, it seemed counter-intuitive for Rodemy to say he doesn't support a no-lynch but then want Nachos to prove his claim.
Why do you think I'm scum? You've quoted the same post that Seppel did when he called me scum, but without providing reasons for why it stands out to you.
I don't know why your drive-by criticism style is agitating me so much. But there you go.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Still skimming, but this post gave me all kinds of heebie-jeebies. Especially that last line. Specifically saying he's just voting to "apply pressure" and make said player "play ball", even though "no one wants to lynch him."
Yuck.
Hey, that one was a serious vote.
Or at least a more serious vote than sheeping the leading wagon.
@Seppel: I get using town powers on him if you have no other choice, but why is it on Antny's terms and not the towns? Why 'lock it in' instead of leaving it up to the player with the power?
Just looks like bad play from where I'm sitting, and anti-town. I'm keeping up with other players but not having as strong as an opinion on it as this. I won't tolerate it, especially if Antny ends up being scum.
Firstly, is this not just the same question twice. I wouldn't normally care but second questions wording just feels really off.
To answer the question(s), it was the hesitation. Rodemy should have snap voted in 209 if he found me scummy. Instead he held off until Zion placed a vote and Tom said he found my post bad before reacting.
I'm going to read through and provide thoughts here.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
I like this section of Nacho's post for it's logic. It shows that he is actually looking for motivation and not just jumping on something. He also voted for Tom in this post, which I don't agree with at this point.
Governor claim also kinda solidfies his for me.
Johnny's #45 seems well reasoned.
Not sure that I believe the posting restriction being implied here. The song in question isn't even titled "Yo, Vanilla." It's "Ice, Ice, Baby." Unless the restriction is lyrics and not title, in which case, Tordeck could be giving us a lot more content.
Axelrod's #80 is a good post questioning Xyre's stance. With IABM claiming Seer (which I guess is a cop for werewolf games), Xyre has set up a lose lose situation regardless of his results.
IABM originally made it seem that his vote on me was due to being a seer. He then moves forward with a different vote. What was your original vote on Ocean based on?
I'm concerned about the twist of words that DoTA is pulling here. Rodemy never said anything about pardoning at this point. Only asked for his thoughts.
Alright. I want to post what I have up to this point. i'll post more as I read through page 5 if needed. otherwise, I'll jump in.
@Antny: It was this post of his. When I first read it I got the impression that the bolded, specifically that "m'kay", was him suggesting that we run a wagon up to get Nachos to prove his claim. I have a bad habit of reading too much into small things like that and basing a case on it. Hasn't always worked out for me.
.... First off, what i SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do is a matter of your opinion, second, I voted you the instant I saw your response (the quote) I was giving you a chance to redeem yourself.
Lastly, If you notice by my post DIRECTLY After the vote, you can see how i voted you first and then proceeded to answer the post towards me after yours. So suck it, die scum. love you. Bye.
The "mkay" was kind of like my reaction to how it was stated he should prove it.
Think of it this way
Person: We can prove it by running someone up!
Me: mkay? He will have to pardon that person regardless! (of alignment) That just proves he an stop lynches.
(in something totally unrelated to the game) I want this to be my new header. It's gorgeous.
I'm confused. I was responding to your saying that I was twisting Rodemy's words. He had voted for Wildfire and Tomsloger at that point. What does any of that have to do with his vote on you?
Well, yeah, but technically isn't all behaviour analyse a matter of opinion in this game.
The point is, there was little reason to hold off. My response was empty (deliberately so), but what did happen was other players chimed in to say I was scummy. If you were waiting for me to redeem myself you would have waited a little longer than a dozen or so posts.
And relevence is....
Tomsloger wagon looks bad. Nacho, Jobie, you guys just got out of a game with Tom. Does he really look that different than he did there?
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Hmm... You want to start a wagon on me based on my vote on you.(or at least when it was placed.) Yet you don't acknowledge how *****ty your initial post was. I mean, anyone could have voted you after that and they would kind of be in the right for it. But you are going after me specifically.. why?
So what if I followed other people. Hypothetically, if that is what I did, what if I just agree with them because their thoughts on you align with mine? Like, how the hell is any of that scummy?
I'm still not following. What is your basis for voting Rodemy?
Reasons explained in post you've already read. Unless there's a specific thing I don't see the point in going over it again.
I'm not a fan of going too deep on these hypothetical points because it seems like your leaving yourself wriggle room to back away if anything damning comes out.
The problem I have is you indicated you had doubts with my post but you didn't want to act until you saw other players agree. Scum tend to want the safety of support rather than going it alone which is why they will often not be the first slot on a wagon but wait until a townie to give them a green light. That's kinda why wagon analysis is a thing.
Phone posting so I can't address everything people have Posted.
I claim one shot seer one shot gunsmith and ETR is only concerned about seer. Sets off my alarm bells.
It means I am aware of who might be targeted if no lynch was successful, and still felt no lynch was beneficial. I don't want to be any clearer than that.
Completely against Tomsloger, though I wish he would tone down number of posts, unless Jobie wants to shoot him again. I am perfectly happy with stringing up DotaArchon or Necarg. The former's interaction with Rodemy looks manipulative, and shady. The latter seems super conscious about his behavior and his "I quoted you instead of people who voted me because I don't give a crap that 2 people are voting me." seems like he actually does, or he wouldn't have stated it outright.
In fact, Vote Necarg
The GJ way path to no lynching:
im town reading him for other stuff, but this is a null read
in which zionite confirms he and seppel are not scum together. i guess this is a much less useful piece of knowledge with two scum teams. sigh.
@EtR "yo vanilla" is technically a track on the album. its 4 seconds long, but it exists
shrug
tordeck may be lying. also may be scum.
but, like, bigger fish to fry
antny now has a bunch of posts and still hasnt really said anything.
hes making an effort to be a part of the game, but its all so hollow.
the case on rodemy is trite, but frankly its more than i can come up with on rodemy.
i am in favor of just letting them both be for now.
well, im in favor of letting everyone who isnt imabusinessman be for now. at least until he can get on a computer and say something of substance.
Can you point it out specifically?
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I am catching up as we speak. Expect a quote wall or five...
If there are specific questions you would like me to answer before my read through is complete, let me know.
"I Don't Know"
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@Antny that's a reasonable and satisfying explanation. UNVOTE
tomsloger (1): Jobie
No Lynch (1): Gentleman Johnny
OceanBlack (1): imabusinessman
imabusinessman (3): Necarg, Tordeck, tomsloger
Xyre (1): Axelrod
Necarg (2): Xyre, Nachomamma8
Antny223 (1): Rodemy
Rodemy (1): Antny223
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I told you i voted you the instance i saw your response. You keep saying i waited until other people gave support.
We wont agree on this and i think that is a *****ty case against me on your end.
._. I see nothing reasonable about him stating i did somethibg i didn't.
And yeah, me being pissed off at stupidity is pretty much my norm
In other news, I WILL BE V/LA TIL SUNDAY EVE. ISO, YEW KNOW WHYYYYYY♡♡♤♤
Anyone want to tell me there main thoughts on them while I do my reread?
I also dislike the imabusinessman wagon. We shouldn't be pushing claimed PR's at this stage and I agree with his point about EtR's slip.
Also still interested in Tomslogger lynch toDay.
Why do we care what you are interested in? You haven't even read the game.
Why do you care enough to comment on this post?
Because I do.
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Annoying when others don't give reasons or put in effort to post isn't it?
Ok, I cared enough to comment because I'd like everyone posting and giving their ideas. This way it's harder for scum to hide and easier for townies to identify each other. I can't see if you're on my side or not if you're going to put zero effort in.
Why are you interested in a Tom lynch?
from what I remember of him from the last times I played, I don't think this is anything out of the ordinary. Have you played with him before?
Why did you select those three? What are your initial thoughts?
He started the game agreeing with someone (Nacho?) that Tomsloger was playing different in this game than in his last one. The implication here is that this is suspicious, but I don't like the way it's done. Because difference in playstyle is NOT actually indicative of much of anything. MAYBE it indicates a different kind of role than the one you had before, but maybe not, and it definitely doesn't indicate a different alignment. But that's really his only point about Tom. "He's playing differently."
Then he gets into a spat with Oceansblack about whether Oceansblack is being too insulting to other players. This also is completely non-alignment indicative, and TappingStones seems to know it, but keeps harping on it. He even flatly accuses Oceansblack of lying, but at the very same time says "now this doesn't mean you are scum..." What's even going on here? This isn't scum-hunting. It's some kind of bizarre confrontational style which reaches no conclusions at all.
Then he finally votes Tom, but, again, the reason appears strictly to be based on this supposed difference in play-style from this game and the last. Which is a terrible (but easy) reason to vote.
This vote is quickly abandoned, however, to vote Antny, for not putting in enough effort. And then there's the post that first caught my eye, where he even says that he's not trying to lynch Antny, but just to make him put in more effort. Another thing I didn't like about that post was how he used the Royal "We" in responding to Nacho - i.e. "It's not just me who feels this way...I'm with someone else on this...WE both feel this way..." It's too buddy-buddy. He's shielding himself and also giving himself an out to scum-hunting. Because he's voting on principle or something. And exactly what kind of pressure do you think you're going to put on someone to post when you are saying at the exact same time you vote them that you don't want to lynch them?
There's a claim that this is TappingStones style - to try and put pressure on the lurkers early - which I have no idea if that's true or not. But even if that is supposedly true, I don't actually see him doing much of this at all in this game. He's not pressuring anyone, lurker or not. He's not scumhunting. He's made some insinuations against a couple of people, and argued a completely irrelevant issue, but given no strong opinions.
This last post is typical:
He's "looking into" them, without stating any actual opinions, and at the same time trying to get other people to give their opinions - which I guess he can then crib off of if it suits his game?
Nothing good going on here.
Unvote Xyre;
Vote: TappingStones
I intend to do a close read of TomsLoger next. And then *shudder* maybe Rodemy.
Because I realized only townies fake post restriction because they're crumbing power and want to draw NK. I'm sad because most people who fake post restrictions at least have the courtesy to do so in a way that they can still post good content. For example, only posting in haiku, Gifs or images. Posting in song titles prevents that. It means he's just going to be dead weight for town until he gets bored with it.
1. I see I'm already voting OB's slot.
2. tomsloger's posts have scum intent in them. Every one of his reads is phony.
His "i cant' read rodemiy...oh wait rodemy is scum...i can't read rodemy. Refuses to interact with a person he can't read. His ONLY interaction is when Rodemy calls him out on not making any case. Then he makes a case that's filled with loaded language and filler.
Claims that he wants necarg to post. When it gets pointed out that votes can be used to apply pressure he votes the person who points this out to him.
Compare what he said in 181 to what he wrote in post 94.
His opinions in this game are contrived. And to top it off, did he actually just say he's not going to post until I post again KNOWING FULL WELL that that could be hours later?
Based on what I heard about predator, someone who has no experience with Tom is most likely going to find these results salacious.
...now if Necarg was in Predator mafia then we have an issue
CAN SOMEONE CHECK PLEASE MY TIME IS LIMITED GOTTA GO FAST
That jives with a town mindset. Necarg is notorious as scum for saying "I don't have reads D1" and tosses around thoughts that don't correspond with his previous posts. I'm not seeing that here. He's finally scumhunting.
This post is a quotemess.
"Hey don't look at that loaded word I typed!! Look at my whole post!! I can defend against that!!"
What necarg scum games have you read?
You changed from convinced to "mistaken" super fast. do you actually expect me to go verify that how do you plan to get it to be on the town's terms What are your reasons for DOTA and Necarg? Town/Town/Town.
The explanation of what happened between Oceansblack and TappingStones makes the most sense.
Nope. Not that I can recall. If the emotion doesn't strike anyone familiar with him as odd, I'll mark it as null.