Seriously, I looked at Hunt again last night to see if there was anything to take from his dearth of posts, and, surprise, there's not much. He made, quite literally, three posts that had any kind of possibly relevant game related content.
First was #405, in which he announces "I'm back, I'm back," and then says the "first" question that caught him is one for Sir Chris. He questions Sir Chris on Chris' supposed reading of DOTArchon as newbie scum. This comes from a post Chris made exactly 2 posts previously. Trying to get into scum-Hunt mindset the question to ask is, why did Hunt single out this post, of everything that had happened in the game up until that point, to be the one thing he was going to mention? Unfortunately, the easy answer is: it was the most recent thing that had happened in the game, and therefore the easiest for him to remark on without having to actually do anything. As such, you probably can't read a whole lot into it. If the post from Sir Chris had happened a bit earlier - suggesting Hunt would have had to have been reading to have picked it out, I might have thought it was slightly more likely that Hunt would pick a post from a scum-buddy to comment on after a prolonged absence, as opposed to a random townie, but this isn't really that situation.
The way Hunt accepts Chris' explanation for his vote in #415 is the next one. Just says "Makes sense to me." It's very deferring. No challenge in any way to Chris, which begs the question why was he even asking Chris to explain in the first place? Again, an easy answer is "scum-busywork" where you toss out the questions to look like you are doing something, but don't actually care what the answers are. Again, there might be something to the fact that his only interaction is with Sir Chris and nobody else, and why would he, as scum, choose to single out Sir Chris to be the person he was going to interact with, but that's just so minor.
I did not go through Hunt's big "Wall of quotes of posts I intend to comment about, but never actually commented about," because that, I think would be entirely fruitless.
Then there was #1112, which is his return post from his latest bout of lurking. Nit-picking, he does about six things in this post.
(1) He gives the opinion that TomL is likely Town, for Tom's comment that he had tried to convince himself iamb was Town and couldn't do it. This, as far as it went, seemed genuine, to the point that I would consider it slightly less likely that TomL and Hunt were on the same scum team. This isn't a super-strong opinion, but there's not a lot to go on.
(2) He remarked on OceansBlack acting differently in this game (more hostile) from another game they played. I asked about this before and I don't think anyone answered me, if they think it's true that OceansBlack was playing differently, and/or that he's not normally as hostile as he came across in this game. I'm still interested in that answer. This also suggests that Hunt and OceansBlack are at least not on the same scum-team.
(3) He agreed with iambusiness man that EtR was lurking scum. Pot/Kettle. This is completely null.
(4) He then questioned Nacho's claim in a twisting almost self-contradicting way, which doesn't tell me much of anything except I still believe Nacho to be Town.
(5) He casts suspicion on TappingStones for agreeing with me, that Hunt needs to post more. This, he says, puts Tapping in scum team #1, with Nacho and EtR. Maybe, slightly less likely he and Tapping would be on the same scum team. But it's weak.
(6) He quotes a Vaimes post where Vaimes singles out 4 people who quickly jumped on the TomL wagon - Sir Chris, Tapping, Wildfire, and Anty, and Vaimes suggested that some amount of scum was in that group. Hunt says that the other scum team is comprised of Sir Chris, Wildfire, and Anty (because Tapping was already on his first scum team, you see.) Ends with a vote for Sir Chris.
I think this might be the most relevant thing out of anything. One of these "two" scum teams was Hunt's own team. So, he either names only Townies on these two teams (from his perspective, obviously), i.e. he made himself 0-6, or, he put a fellow scum-buddy in there somewhere. My guess is that the latter is more likely. And I think if that's correct, that it's the second "team" that is more likely to contain a fellow scum-buddy, than the first, i.e. the set of Sir Chris, Wildfire, and Anty. I do think it is entirely possible this was a "bus" vote, because Hunt knew how crappy he was playing, and maybe he thought the least he could do would be to try and put some kind of distance between himself and his fellow scum.
I write all these words (because that's how I do), but in the end, it's not much, and not something I would make a case over. It's really just something that slightly tips the scales one way or the other. There may be more in other people's reactions/responses to Hunt this game, though it's going to be a pain to try and find all those.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
vaimes, you will be missed. "rest in peace" tordeck.
gonna look at peoples interactions with them soon. see if anything jumps out.
but theres more interesting information to be had right now.
@jobie i do actually plan on claiming Today, but certainly not in response to that.
ill give you a pretty juicy preview though: im not town
the rest will have to wait until our claimed roles reveal their night actions.
@wildfire why on earth were you scumreading vaimes? did you make that case?
@everyone ill make an effort to be... less... today. i dont want anyone modkilled.
no promises though, as i still dont really understand the problem.
Kind of surprised vaimes flipped town. What the hell is a "last resort"?
I am not surprised at all.
A google search for "Mafia Roles Last Resort" yielded this from EpicMafia
"-Sided with Village
-Appears as blue to self
-Mafia cannot win unless Last Resort is dead
-If Last Resort is only village member left, town wins"
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Tordeck has been killed. He was Benito, Town Vanilla.
I'm very interested in people who were paranoid about Tordeck or wanted him to claim more. Was Tordeck actually doing anything this game? No. This reads like a blatant fearkill.
Seriously, I looked at Hunt again last night to see if there was anything to take from his dearth of posts, and, surprise, there's not much. He made, quite literally, three posts that had any kind of possibly relevant game related content.
I looked at what people WERE SAYING about Hunt. But that was agonizing because nobody types "huntzilla" but they also type "scumhunting" and it's amazing how frequent the word "hunt" is used in this game without referring to Huntzilla.
So I didn't save anything but I remember TappingStones's reaction definitely absolves TS of being Hunt's partner. I also remember that Axelrod's reaction could definitely be scum motivated.
So when Axelrod came in and did this review, I was looking intently for something that suggests that Axelrod really cares, or if he's just trying to discourage us from reading into Hunt. Unlike Nacho's case on Hunt, Axelrod's review of Hunt doesn't scream that he's town.
vaimes, you will be missed. "rest in peace" tordeck.
gonna look at peoples interactions with them soon. see if anything jumps out.
but theres more interesting information to be had right now.
@jobie i do actually plan on claiming Today, but certainly not in response to that.
ill give you a pretty juicy preview though: im not town
Vote tom. 100%.
@wildfire why on earth were you scumreading vaimes? did you make that case?
Well, a fair bit of it was based on interactions with you, so if you're non-town but also not on a scumteam that doesn't quite pan out anyways. Mostly he seemed opportunistic and shared a lot of your questionable views.
A google search for "Mafia Roles Last Resort" yielded this from EpicMafia
"-Sided with Village
-Appears as blue to self
-Mafia cannot win unless Last Resort is dead
-If Last Resort is only village member left, town wins"
That's... really odd, but it makes sense in a two-scum-faction game.
My guesses as for what happened overnight:
-1 scum team shot Vaimes
-1 scum team shot either Chris, imab, or Nacho (in descending order of likeliness) and was Doc-blocked or otherwise prevented
-Vig shot Tordeck
I will tell y'all right now that the Tordeck shot was not me despite having suggested it earlier. If I had a vig shot I'd have killed tom.
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What makes you think we have a vig? And if you were scumreading Vaimes, why do you think Vaimes wasn't the vigshot?
I assume we have a vig because:
1) Tordeck doesn't make a ton of sense as a scum kill because he didn't contribute much,
2) Tordeck is a reasonable vig kill
3) Iso games generally have one or more vigs (or I suppose it could be a scum extra kill which is also common in Iso games, but see 1&2)
I don't think vaimes was the vig shot, because while I had a scum lean on him, that certainly wasn't a common belief. Lots of people had him near the top of their town lists, making him both a bad vig kill and a decent scum kill.
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I doubt a townie shot tordeck. More likely a scum team didn't believe his vanilla claim, perhaps on the theory that there's no such thing as a posting-restricted vanilla.
What I'm more curious about is why kill Vaimes. I wonder if he was on to something. Need to review.
Not antitown in any way. Do you think I would have given that tidbit if it wasn't misleading?
Still gonna wait for chris and imab to check in. And hopefully get to a computer.
Your play's been incredibly anti-town. There are few non-town roles that "side" with town, with Suvivor being the most benign, and even that can generally win more easily siding with Scum. So unless you have some actual pro-town info up your sleeve, my vote's not likely to move.
I doubt a townie shot tordeck. More likely a scum team didn't believe his vanilla claim, perhaps on the theory that there's no such thing as a posting-restricted vanilla.
Agree to disagree. He was extremely open in claiming vanilla and then played as a complete non-entity all day. Scum has no impetus to shoot him - he has no abilities, no influence, no meaningful reads. Town has impetus to shoot him for exactly that reason.
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I am more inclined to believe town vig on Tordeck, due to his lack of posting. I was actually going to try to case him on him not responding to questions he was asked about his posting restriction or others, but now that he is town, whatever. Chris could be scum
@Tom: Don't slowroll. Tell us what you are, and let's move on. If Jobie tells us whatever he did to you to draw suspicion before you claim what you are, I am no breaks going for you today.
Curious about IMBA whether he got a shot off or not. We likely have a few protective roles, so what I am guessing happened is that a kill was stop, and a vig shot tordeck. Chris/IMAB need to post who and what they got.
I am more inclined to believe town vig on Tordeck, due to his lack of posting. I was actually going to try to case him on him not responding to questions he was asked about his posting restriction or others, but now that he is town, whatever. Chris could be scum
@Tom: Don't slowroll. Tell us what you are, and let's move on. If Jobie tells us whatever he did to you to draw suspicion before you claim what you are, I am no breaks going for you today.
Curious about IMBA whether he got a shot off or not. We likely have a few protective roles, so what I am guessing happened is that a kill was stop, and a vig shot tordeck. Chris/IMAB need to post who and what they got.
This post should be required reading for anyone coming in to post today.
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For obvious reason as well, no one should claim what any results are before tom. I feel weird for having to say that, but I will hack into this game and day-kill anyone who even thinks about the word "mass-claim".
@Wildfire: If I look back tomorrow, will I find any reasons for you to suspect Vaimes? He seemed like a pretty strong town read towards the end.
For obvious reason as well, no one should claim what any results are before tom. I feel weird for having to say that, but I will hack into this game and day-kill anyone who even thinks about the word "mass-claim".
@Wildfire: If I look back tomorrow, will I find any reasons for you to suspect Vaimes? He seemed like a pretty strong town read towards the end.
If you look back at my statistical analysis of Tom's posting, Vaimes was a significant outlier based off of how little Tom directly and indirectly interacted with him compared to his post count (relative to the other top posters). Operating under the suspicion that Tom was scum, it made sense that Vaimes would have been a teammate.
Admittedly, it was not rock-solid reasoning, but it got me thinking there was a chance he was scum. That was all I had voiced, though I was starting to piece together a case based on some opportunistic jumps at the end of yesterDay as well.
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From this, I'd conclude that his scum buddies are most likely within [Vaimes, DoTA, Xyre, Axelrod, Tordeck], because those are the ones that have an unusually low portion of interactions per post. Vaimes stands out as between the two players in that slot, he's been the third most active slot this game, yet he has considerably fewer interactions than the surrounding players. Tordeck also stands out because Tom spends the early game going "maybe he's scummy. What if he's scummy? But meh!" and then arbitrarily decides he likes it so Tordeck is probably town. I also like Xyre for his team because of the abrupt about-face combined with barely interacting.
I'd say tom/Vaimes/Xyre is a pretty good shot at being a team, with Tordeck being a fourth member or a replacement for the Vaimes or Xyre if they turn out not to be.
For reference
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Well, my initial impression is that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We already got to eliminate the Mafia to win. And the werewolves. But you have a "Neutral" role that only has to eliminate the Mafia half? And then you just win?
How nice for you.
Then you have a 1-shot to have a very small chance of finding one of the people you have to eliminate, but no ability to actually eliminate them (despite you being an "Assassin"). What kind of sense does that even make?
Nah. Not buying it. That role is dumb.
Vote: tomsloger
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Still would govern Tom today, especially based on claim. Remember Iso saying in some thread about a two town mechanic?
Yeah. This is very likely to be it.
What on Earth are you talking about?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
On what Earth do you think his claim is real? He is essentially claiming an identical role (or at least half of one) to IMAB. IMAB claimed his shot was gunsmith, I think. Tom is claiming his is called assassin. One of them has to be lying, and the lack of counterclaim on Tom's straight up counterclaim bothers me.
I didn't counter imab because I thought it was an interesting dichotomy between our abilities. He had two shots but it would only tell one alignment. Mine tells just town/non town probably means there's a neutral but Toms doesn't sound right.
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I don't particularly disagree that my role pm is nonsensical.
And yes, the fact that imabs claim didn't match mine is what set me on him in the first place. I actually think it's highly likely he's a wolf. Its just not my problem. Shrug.
I would think the role pm would say if I left the game when my win condition is met, but I'll ask. (@iso this is me asking. Don't make mesend a pm from a phone)
What makes you think we have a vig? And if you were scumreading Vaimes, why do you think Vaimes wasn't the vigshot?
I assume we have a vig because:
1) Tordeck doesn't make a ton of sense as a scum kill because he didn't contribute much,
2) Tordeck is a reasonable vig kill
3) Iso games generally have one or more vigs (or I suppose it could be a scum extra kill which is also common in Iso games, but see 1&2)
I don't think vaimes was the vig shot, because while I had a scum lean on him, that certainly wasn't a common belief. Lots of people had him near the top of their town lists, making him both a bad vig kill and a decent scum kill.
This seems oddly specific. Something's bugging me about Wildfire.
I am more inclined to believe town vig on Tordeck, due to his lack of posting. I was actually going to try to case him on him not responding to questions he was asked about his posting restriction or others, but now that he is town, whatever. Chris could be scum
Okay this is boggling. One person suggesting it is weird, but two?
Think about it: this is three weak cops, on top of imab. All of them have limited uses, and all of them can give either false positives or false negatives. In this case, tomsloger is the balancing force to Jobie's cop, akin to a miller. It's pretty clever design, actually - a functional miller who doesn't know he's a miller. I rather doubt this is the last of our investigators (and that's even setting aside scum investigative roles).
And this setup seems to be heavy on roles that affect only one mafia or the other. I doubt this is the last we've seen of town roles (or town-ish roles) with asymmetries. Without giving away too many details, for example, my ability only affects one scum team.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
back at home with the laptop now. just started a reread looking for interactions with the dead townies.
first thing i noticed is the details in the OP under dead players.
Also that Were-Hamster role makes no sense. So it's a neutral role that doesn't count against the town win condition, but does count against the town win condition because the town loses if they win with him? What the ****?
I think as a general rule I'm not going to assume that Iso put in a role that splits the rules of the game in half, on the theory that if I'm wrong at least I'll reap the rewards of calling him an idiot.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Because scum never coach noob scum that were under pressure on a good fake claim during the night.
/s
I wish we had forced Tom to claim yesterday.
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Okay this is boggling. One person suggesting it is weird, but two?
I'm not sure what you think is "boggling" about it. Why would any scum shoot at Tordeck last night? He was one of the most useless players in the game. Scum love that. For the exact same reason, I can easily see a Townie with a gun deciding that Tordeck would be a great distraction to get rid of - hopefully lying scum, but even if not, man what a useless Townie.
There's nothing hard to understand about that.
And, yes, Tom is totally lying about something. Hopefully it's that he's Mafia/Werewolf (or a SK), and not that he's actually a "Neutral" who does something else.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Because scum never coach noob scum that were under pressure on a good fake claim during the night.
/s
I... what? He has a bad claim, therefore he must have been coached?
Think about it: this is three weak cops, on top of imab. All of them have limited uses, and all of them can give either false positives or false negatives. In this case, tomsloger is the balancing force to Jobie's cop, akin to a miller. It's pretty clever design, actually - a functional miller who doesn't know he's a miller. I rather doubt this is the last of our investigators (and that's even setting aside scum investigative roles).
And this setup seems to be heavy on roles that affect only one mafia or the other. I doubt this is the last we've seen of town roles (or town-ish roles) with asymmetries. Without giving away too many details, for example, my ability only affects one scum team.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Vote Sir Chris now that I'm back at a computer.
You are ignoring the part where Tom is supposed to be "Neutral" and not a Town investigator, and that he only needs 1/2 the scum to be eliminated to "win". What's "Clever" about that? And how is it both clever and a mediocre claim at the same time?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Because scum never coach noob scum that were under pressure on a good fake claim during the night.
/s
I wish we had forced Tom to claim yesterday.
jobie youve basically been actively trying to make me NOT claim.
like, your reason Yesterday for trying to make me claim was so you could lynch me. and as for Today, i think my contrary nature is obvious enough that you have to know that your behavior this morning made me less likely to do it.
i mean, it almost worked. if i could have claimed to everyone but you i would have.
My power was to determine if someone was aligned with mafia. Imab isn't (could still be a wolf, but I don't care).
So I missed this the first time, because I was reading on mobile. Tom did claim his top 2 scum suspects at the end of D1 were Imab and Chris. But I don't understand why you go after imab over chris... besides the fact that it's Tom and he doesn't make any ******* sense.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Because scum never coach noob scum that were under pressure on a good fake claim during the night.
/s
I wish we had forced Tom to claim yesterday.
jobie youve basically been actively trying to make me NOT claim.
like, your reason Yesterday for trying to make me claim was so you could lynch me. and as for Today, i think my contrary nature is obvious enough that you have to know that your behavior this morning made me less likely to do it.
i mean, it almost worked. if i could have claimed to everyone but you i would have.
Hopefully, I won't take a modkill for this comment, but **** it if I do, because this is bull*****:
ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME. I have a non-town investigation result on you. I'm damn well going to pressure you to claim immediately when the day begins. The fact that you don't understand this IS THE WAY THE ******* GAME WORKS astounds me and the fact that it took you multiple posts to claim makes me want to lynch you on precedent. I wanted you to claim yesterday because I think you're scummy as *****. I wanted to see what you'd claim before you had a chance to talk to your scum buddies and formulate a plausible claim. I wanted to see how you'd react to the pressure of being asked to claim. NEWSFLASH YOU LOOKED SCUMMY AS *****.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Because scum never coach noob scum that were under pressure on a good fake claim during the night.
/s
I... what? He has a bad claim, therefore he must have been coached?
Just because you give a man a raw filet mignon doesn't mean he'll cook you the best steak of your life.
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Seriously, I looked at Hunt again last night to see if there was anything to take from his dearth of posts, and, surprise, there's not much. He made, quite literally, three posts that had any kind of possibly relevant game related content.
First was #405, in which he announces "I'm back, I'm back," and then says the "first" question that caught him is one for Sir Chris. He questions Sir Chris on Chris' supposed reading of DOTArchon as newbie scum. This comes from a post Chris made exactly 2 posts previously. Trying to get into scum-Hunt mindset the question to ask is, why did Hunt single out this post, of everything that had happened in the game up until that point, to be the one thing he was going to mention? Unfortunately, the easy answer is: it was the most recent thing that had happened in the game, and therefore the easiest for him to remark on without having to actually do anything. As such, you probably can't read a whole lot into it. If the post from Sir Chris had happened a bit earlier - suggesting Hunt would have had to have been reading to have picked it out, I might have thought it was slightly more likely that Hunt would pick a post from a scum-buddy to comment on after a prolonged absence, as opposed to a random townie, but this isn't really that situation.
The way Hunt accepts Chris' explanation for his vote in #415 is the next one. Just says "Makes sense to me." It's very deferring. No challenge in any way to Chris, which begs the question why was he even asking Chris to explain in the first place? Again, an easy answer is "scum-busywork" where you toss out the questions to look like you are doing something, but don't actually care what the answers are. Again, there might be something to the fact that his only interaction is with Sir Chris and nobody else, and why would he, as scum, choose to single out Sir Chris to be the person he was going to interact with, but that's just so minor.
I did not go through Hunt's big "Wall of quotes of posts I intend to comment about, but never actually commented about," because that, I think would be entirely fruitless.
Then there was #1112, which is his return post from his latest bout of lurking. Nit-picking, he does about six things in this post.
(1) He gives the opinion that TomL is likely Town, for Tom's comment that he had tried to convince himself iamb was Town and couldn't do it. This, as far as it went, seemed genuine, to the point that I would consider it slightly less likely that TomL and Hunt were on the same scum team. This isn't a super-strong opinion, but there's not a lot to go on.
(2) He remarked on OceansBlack acting differently in this game (more hostile) from another game they played. I asked about this before and I don't think anyone answered me, if they think it's true that OceansBlack was playing differently, and/or that he's not normally as hostile as he came across in this game. I'm still interested in that answer. This also suggests that Hunt and OceansBlack are at least not on the same scum-team.
(3) He agreed with iambusiness man that EtR was lurking scum. Pot/Kettle. This is completely null.
(4) He then questioned Nacho's claim in a twisting almost self-contradicting way, which doesn't tell me much of anything except I still believe Nacho to be Town.
(5) He casts suspicion on TappingStones for agreeing with me, that Hunt needs to post more. This, he says, puts Tapping in scum team #1, with Nacho and EtR. Maybe, slightly less likely he and Tapping would be on the same scum team. But it's weak.
(6) He quotes a Vaimes post where Vaimes singles out 4 people who quickly jumped on the TomL wagon - Sir Chris, Tapping, Wildfire, and Anty, and Vaimes suggested that some amount of scum was in that group. Hunt says that the other scum team is comprised of Sir Chris, Wildfire, and Anty (because Tapping was already on his first scum team, you see.) Ends with a vote for Sir Chris.
I think this might be the most relevant thing out of anything. One of these "two" scum teams was Hunt's own team. So, he either names only Townies on these two teams (from his perspective, obviously), i.e. he made himself 0-6, or, he put a fellow scum-buddy in there somewhere. My guess is that the latter is more likely. And I think if that's correct, that it's the second "team" that is more likely to contain a fellow scum-buddy, than the first, i.e. the set of Sir Chris, Wildfire, and Anty. I do think it is entirely possible this was a "bus" vote, because Hunt knew how crappy he was playing, and maybe he thought the least he could do would be to try and put some kind of distance between himself and his fellow scum.
I write all these words (because that's how I do), but in the end, it's not much, and not something I would make a case over. It's really just something that slightly tips the scales one way or the other. There may be more in other people's reactions/responses to Hunt this game, though it's going to be a pain to try and find all those.
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gonna look at peoples interactions with them soon. see if anything jumps out.
but theres more interesting information to be had right now.
@jobie i do actually plan on claiming Today, but certainly not in response to that.
ill give you a pretty juicy preview though: im not town
the rest will have to wait until our claimed roles reveal their night actions.
@wildfire why on earth were you scumreading vaimes? did you make that case?
@everyone ill make an effort to be... less... today. i dont want anyone modkilled.
no promises though, as i still dont really understand the problem.
I am not surprised at all.
A google search for "Mafia Roles Last Resort" yielded this from EpicMafia
"-Sided with Village
-Appears as blue to self
-Mafia cannot win unless Last Resort is dead
-If Last Resort is only village member left, town wins"
Anyone know what a Last Resort is? I'm very interested in people who were paranoid about Tordeck or wanted him to claim more. Was Tordeck actually doing anything this game? No. This reads like a blatant fearkill. Oh boy. This is going to be a trainwreck. I don't support this. Is that even a song? I looked at what people WERE SAYING about Hunt. But that was agonizing because nobody types "huntzilla" but they also type "scumhunting" and it's amazing how frequent the word "hunt" is used in this game without referring to Huntzilla.
So I didn't save anything but I remember TappingStones's reaction definitely absolves TS of being Hunt's partner. I also remember that Axelrod's reaction could definitely be scum motivated.
So when Axelrod came in and did this review, I was looking intently for something that suggests that Axelrod really cares, or if he's just trying to discourage us from reading into Hunt. Unlike Nacho's case on Hunt, Axelrod's review of Hunt doesn't scream that he's town. Did you ever express suspicion of Vaimes? I am stunned.
Unvote, vote Tom
Are you mafia, werewolf, or something else?
Vote tom. 100%.
Well, a fair bit of it was based on interactions with you, so if you're non-town but also not on a scumteam that doesn't quite pan out anyways. Mostly he seemed opportunistic and shared a lot of your questionable views.
That's... really odd, but it makes sense in a two-scum-faction game.
My guesses as for what happened overnight:
-1 scum team shot Vaimes
-1 scum team shot either Chris, imab, or Nacho (in descending order of likeliness) and was Doc-blocked or otherwise prevented
-Vig shot Tordeck
I will tell y'all right now that the Tordeck shot was not me despite having suggested it earlier. If I had a vig shot I'd have killed tom.
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I assume we have a vig because:
1) Tordeck doesn't make a ton of sense as a scum kill because he didn't contribute much,
2) Tordeck is a reasonable vig kill
3) Iso games generally have one or more vigs (or I suppose it could be a scum extra kill which is also common in Iso games, but see 1&2)
I don't think vaimes was the vig shot, because while I had a scum lean on him, that certainly wasn't a common belief. Lots of people had him near the top of their town lists, making him both a bad vig kill and a decent scum kill.
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Still gonna wait for chris and imab to check in. And hopefully get to a computer.
What I'm more curious about is why kill Vaimes. I wonder if he was on to something. Need to review.
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Your play's been incredibly anti-town. There are few non-town roles that "side" with town, with Suvivor being the most benign, and even that can generally win more easily siding with Scum. So unless you have some actual pro-town info up your sleeve, my vote's not likely to move.
Agree to disagree. He was extremely open in claiming vanilla and then played as a complete non-entity all day. Scum has no impetus to shoot him - he has no abilities, no influence, no meaningful reads. Town has impetus to shoot him for exactly that reason.
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@Tom: Don't slowroll. Tell us what you are, and let's move on. If Jobie tells us whatever he did to you to draw suspicion before you claim what you are, I am no breaks going for you today.
Curious about IMBA whether he got a shot off or not. We likely have a few protective roles, so what I am guessing happened is that a kill was stop, and a vig shot tordeck. Chris/IMAB need to post who and what they got.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
No delaying, just claim.
This post should be required reading for anyone coming in to post today.
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Actually this would be more accurate.
@Wildfire: If I look back tomorrow, will I find any reasons for you to suspect Vaimes? He seemed like a pretty strong town read towards the end.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
If you look back at my statistical analysis of Tom's posting, Vaimes was a significant outlier based off of how little Tom directly and indirectly interacted with him compared to his post count (relative to the other top posters). Operating under the suspicion that Tom was scum, it made sense that Vaimes would have been a teammate.
Admittedly, it was not rock-solid reasoning, but it got me thinking there was a chance he was scum. That was all I had voiced, though I was starting to piece together a case based on some opportunistic jumps at the end of yesterDay as well.
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For reference
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Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
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But sure. I won't even wait to get off mobile.
I'm neutral but my wincon is eliminating mafia. I don't care about werewolves but I'm otherwise town.
My power was to determine if someone was aligned with mafia. Imab isn't (could still be a wolf, but I don't care).
Can we see if we have useful results now?
I hope he has a better reason for coming out of the gates like that than finding me annoying
I Googled it when I got the PM. He's from assassin's creed.
Yeah. This is very likely to be it.
Tom, can you please share:
1) How many shots do you get with your ability?
2) Do you leave the game when the mafia is eliminated?
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@Nachos: Tom has claimed neutral, not sure if that would imply a 2 town setup.
and I don't leave the game as far as I know
And it's called assassin, which is weird since I can't assassinate anyone.
Jobie do you have a reason for once again trying to make me not claim?
How nice for you.
Then you have a 1-shot to have a very small chance of finding one of the people you have to eliminate, but no ability to actually eliminate them (despite you being an "Assassin"). What kind of sense does that even make?
Nah. Not buying it. That role is dumb.
Vote: tomsloger
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What on Earth are you talking about?
On what Earth do you think his claim is real? He is essentially claiming an identical role (or at least half of one) to IMAB. IMAB claimed his shot was gunsmith, I think. Tom is claiming his is called assassin. One of them has to be lying, and the lack of counterclaim on Tom's straight up counterclaim bothers me.
Vote Tomsloger
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Bye Felicia.
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And yes, the fact that imabs claim didn't match mine is what set me on him in the first place. I actually think it's highly likely he's a wolf. Its just not my problem. Shrug.
I would think the role pm would say if I left the game when my win condition is met, but I'll ask. (@iso this is me asking. Don't make mesend a pm from a phone)
there's some scum hunting motivation for you jobie
Vaimes was a last resort, Tom is a first resort. He probably wins instead of the town if he's still alive with the town.
Tom is a Were-hamster.
Think about it: this is three weak cops, on top of imab. All of them have limited uses, and all of them can give either false positives or false negatives. In this case, tomsloger is the balancing force to Jobie's cop, akin to a miller. It's pretty clever design, actually - a functional miller who doesn't know he's a miller. I rather doubt this is the last of our investigators (and that's even setting aside scum investigative roles).
And this setup seems to be heavy on roles that affect only one mafia or the other. I doubt this is the last we've seen of town roles (or town-ish roles) with asymmetries. Without giving away too many details, for example, my ability only affects one scum team.
That, and I don't think tom is so guileless as to come up with such a mediocre false claim as scum. That, coupled with the fact he investigated imab of all people, suggests to me that he's telling the truth and got caught in a highly improbable bad situation.
Vote Sir Chris now that I'm back at a computer.
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first thing i noticed is the details in the OP under dead players. i think we can pretty much infer mafia killed vaimes and the werewolves killed tordeck.
and @seppel i still agree that my role details make no sense. i didnt choose it yo.
I think as a general rule I'm not going to assume that Iso put in a role that splits the rules of the game in half, on the theory that if I'm wrong at least I'll reap the rewards of calling him an idiot.
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/s
I wish we had forced Tom to claim yesterday.
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I'm not sure what you think is "boggling" about it. Why would any scum shoot at Tordeck last night? He was one of the most useless players in the game. Scum love that. For the exact same reason, I can easily see a Townie with a gun deciding that Tordeck would be a great distraction to get rid of - hopefully lying scum, but even if not, man what a useless Townie.
There's nothing hard to understand about that.
And, yes, Tom is totally lying about something. Hopefully it's that he's Mafia/Werewolf (or a SK), and not that he's actually a "Neutral" who does something else.
I... what? He has a bad claim, therefore he must have been coached?
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You are ignoring the part where Tom is supposed to be "Neutral" and not a Town investigator, and that he only needs 1/2 the scum to be eliminated to "win". What's "Clever" about that? And how is it both clever and a mediocre claim at the same time?
like, your reason Yesterday for trying to make me claim was so you could lynch me. and as for Today, i think my contrary nature is obvious enough that you have to know that your behavior this morning made me less likely to do it.
i mean, it almost worked. if i could have claimed to everyone but you i would have.
So I missed this the first time, because I was reading on mobile. Tom did claim his top 2 scum suspects at the end of D1 were Imab and Chris. But I don't understand why you go after imab over chris... besides the fact that it's Tom and he doesn't make any ******* sense.
Hopefully, I won't take a modkill for this comment, but **** it if I do, because this is bull*****:
ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME. I have a non-town investigation result on you. I'm damn well going to pressure you to claim immediately when the day begins. The fact that you don't understand this IS THE WAY THE ******* GAME WORKS astounds me and the fact that it took you multiple posts to claim makes me want to lynch you on precedent. I wanted you to claim yesterday because I think you're scummy as *****. I wanted to see what you'd claim before you had a chance to talk to your scum buddies and formulate a plausible claim. I wanted to see how you'd react to the pressure of being asked to claim. NEWSFLASH YOU LOOKED SCUMMY AS *****.
Can we please lynch him now?
Just because you give a man a raw filet mignon doesn't mean he'll cook you the best steak of your life.
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