Instead of hitting preview, I accidentally hit submit. I don't want to quote them all again so I'll lay out what I don't understand here:
1. Your first post to Nacho is pointless. You suggest that his claim is only useful if he's scum without directly calling him scum. You state the obvious: that a town-directed kill of town may not be beneficial.
2. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about with the WIFOM point.
3. You state that your job as town is to scumhunt. Is there a reason you're just spouting theory?
4. You tell Nacho that many people think he's dumb. What does that have to do with anything? The way you are asking the question also looks like you are tip-toeing around him.
5. You spread random seeds of paranoia about the werewolves potentially recruiting and tie it back to GentlemanJohnny in a ridiculously roundabout manner.
6. I don't understand your townread on Nacho or scumreads on Xyr, Ima, and Rodemy.
7. The "never fear, I will spam again" line is terrible because if you are town who thinks it's best to sit back and observe, why not justify it rather than molding your playstyle to kowtow to someone annoyance with you?
Going through all of that stuff, I actually prefer this vote.
Unvote: GentlemanJohnny
Vote: tomsloger
Also, I realized that part of the reason I've been skimming over your posts is your lack of proper punctuation, paragraph spacing, and capitalization which makes your posts difficult and tedious to understand. If English is genuinely not your first language, I'll put in the effort to understand you but if you are deliberately doing this as some kind of "internet speak," please stop, it is annoying.
@Tom: My argument is that I'm town because my role is too powerful for scum; the power to force town to use multiple lynches in an attempt to kill my scumbuddies is extremely overpowered. Do you disagree with that?
Why are you scum reading iamabusinessman?
I don't really understand why or how Rodemy saying he's town is different from me saying that I'm town at the beginning of the game.
Changing his RVS to a real vote seems to be a result of him reading the game.
If you do want to know, here are two reasons I disagree with your claim:
1. You missed a chance to screw over the scumteam at LYLO. You had a powerful role that could single-handedly snatch victory for town from the jaws of defeat. There is no reason to expect you'd be nightkilled over anybody else and if you are, no big deal, we can move on.
2. When a player is lynched, they can often have telling reactions in twilight before the mod closes the thread if they believe that they are irrevocably lynched and have been eliminated from the game. Town may frantically put together a list of reads and demand that their scumspects be lynched. Scum may admit to being scum and congratulate us on a good lynch. By claiming your role, you are making it so that everyone still plays as if they're not already dead which takes away this valuable little time that you could have used to scumhunt and overturn town lynches.
I disagree that the questionable benefits from you trying to wield more influence on the town by threatening to overturn lynches on your townreads outweigh the huge benefits that you threw away.
Thanks for the input.
I agree with you that there are more interesting things to do in this game. I'll probably bring thus up in post-game.
@oceanblack yes, thats what i said... they all seem to be fairly clear with the possible exception of "ha! love the flashback!" which was a reference to my attack on tappingstones changing his tone after Day 1 in my first game.
@rodemy im not voting you. nor is anyone as far as i can tell.
and youre asking why wildfire said something with his rvs vote. i can answer it for you: because rvs.
Instead of hitting preview, I accidentally hit submit. I don't want to quote them all again so I'll lay out what I don't understand here:
1. Your first post to Nacho is pointless. You suggest that his claim is only useful if he's scum without directly calling him scum. You state the obvious: that a town-directed kill of town may not be beneficial.
2. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about with the WIFOM point.
3. You state that your job as town is to scumhunt. Is there a reason you're just spouting theory?
4. You tell Nacho that many people think he's dumb. What does that have to do with anything? The way you are asking the question also looks like you are tip-toeing around him.
5. You spread random seeds of paranoia about the werewolves potentially recruiting and tie it back to GentlemanJohnny in a ridiculously roundabout manner.
6. I don't understand your townread on Nacho or scumreads on Xyr, Ima, and Rodemy.
7. The "never fear, I will spam again" line is terrible because if you are town who thinks it's best to sit back and observe, why not justify it rather than molding your playstyle to kowtow to someone annoyance with you?
Going through all of that stuff, I actually prefer this vote.
Unvote: GentlemanJohnny
Vote: tomsloger
Also, I realized that part of the reason I've been skimming over your posts is your lack of proper punctuation, paragraph spacing, and capitalization which makes your posts difficult and tedious to understand. If English is genuinely not your first language, I'll put in the effort to understand you but if you are deliberately doing this as some kind of "internet speak," please stop, it is annoying.
sorry. i reloaded to make sure no one had posted, but missed the new page.
to your points:
1 i agree it was obvious. thats why i responded to nacho's differing opinion. i dont think he's scum, i think his power (if true) is more likely to harm than help
2 i have no idea what imabusinessman is talking about with the wifom point. i looked it up in the glossary and it does not seem to be related at all. pehaps you could shed some light, but i'd rather if he did.
3 my job is to scumhunt. im "spouting theory" in response to being asked why i have changed from my other game.
4 i dont really think i'm tiptoeing around him. i am pretty obviously calling him out for playing badly.
5 i AM paranoid about wolves having that ability. i certainly didnt mean to relate gentlemanjohnny to that, he has just been the only proponent of a no lynch and i am stating that i dont want that.
6 i will eventually have actual reads on people, and i will elaborate on them then.
7 i will spam again. thats just who i am. it seems it is going to annoy you and will continue to annoy jobie. so be it.
and english is my first language. this is another "just who i am" thing. all of my posting is conversational and stream of conscious. i dont really see the problem with punctuation other than skipping the apostrophes in almost all contractions.
the capitalization will never change, thats a product of my handwriting being all caps. ive never heard that it hinders understanding before, but its too late for me to change now.
are you voting me because i annoy you or do you genuinely think i'm scum?
@nachotammy i do not disagree with that. i think if your claim is true you are certainly town. that power is completely broken for scum and a mild hindrance for town (at least the way you are using it).
also, see point 6 above
I disagree that Jobie's post was null and I deliberately phrased my first post in a way to make it clear that I wasn't RVS voting Jobie. I never RVS vote but in the past, people tended to assume that my early naked votes were RVS so I often had to clarify that all my votes were serious.
The fact that Jobie chose to "clearly label" his vote as RVS is itself a minor scumtell. He's trying to avoid responsibility for casting the vote by taking an overly neutral stance. There are several useful things he could have done with his first post in the game. He could have voted someone he knew in order to facilitate an interaction that would help him read them. He could have commented on the only notable thing that happened thus far in the game (Nacho saying he's town rather than just confirming). He could have voted without clarifying that it was RVS thus instigating queries and discussion to push the game forward. He did none of that and chose the safest play that a player could possibly make: an RVS post with clear LABEL tacked on suggesting to us all that that was an RVS vote and he's not to blame for any blowback or discussion that could possibly result from it. That looks like squirmy scum trying to fly under the radar.
^This looks like you're reading way too much into the very first post of the game...
@Tom: My argument is that I'm town because my role is too powerful for scum; the power to force town to use multiple lynches in an attempt to kill my scumbuddies is extremely overpowered. Do you disagree with that?
I think it would be naive for anyone to just take your word for it. While the role does seem overpowered in the hands of the mafia, we know nothing yet about the setup of this game. Just off the top of my head:
[Random speculation that should not be taken seriously]
1) Town:12 Mafia:3 Werewolves:3 - The scum teams are each playing a game of 15v3.
2) Town:14 Mafia:2 Werewolves:2 - Seems like town is incredibly powerful in this setup, so maybe give scum powerful roles they wouldn't normally have access to.
3) Town:14 Mafia:3 Werewolves:1 - Start with 1 wolf and give the alpha wolf the infect ability. [/Random speculation that should not be taken seriously]
I'm not trying to start a debate as to the setup, I just think that until we know more we should be careful about blindly believing that someone's role is indicative of their alignment.
IGMEOY Nachos. Your role only gets you so far, your actions will provide the proof.
^This looks like you're reading way too much into the very first post of the game...
I love that some people talk about RVS like it is some sort of "safe haven" when nothing you do can be questioned. Personally, I find that line of thinking lazy, noobish, garbage. Reads can be formed as early as post one.
You've been very neutral in your assessment of me. What does the fact that I'm reading a lot into the first post of the game tell you about my alignment?
^This looks like you're reading way too much into the very first post of the game...
I love that some people talk about RVS like it is some sort of "safe haven" when nothing you do can be questioned. Personally, I find that line of thinking lazy, noobish, garbage. Reads can be formed as early as post one.
You've been very neutral in your assessment of me. What does the fact that I'm reading a lot into the first post of the game tell you about my alignment?
My assessment of you is coming across as neutral because that's how I'm reading you. You're focusing on an RVS post for reasons you believe are valid, and if I tried to use this as a basis to town or scum read you then I would be the one reading too much into things.
Instead of hitting preview, I accidentally hit submit. I don't want to quote them all again so I'll lay out what I don't understand here:
1. Your first post to Nacho is pointless. You suggest that his claim is only useful if he's scum without directly calling him scum. You state the obvious: that a town-directed kill of town may not be beneficial.
2. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about with the WIFOM point.
3. You state that your job as town is to scumhunt. Is there a reason you're just spouting theory?
4. You tell Nacho that many people think he's dumb. What does that have to do with anything? The way you are asking the question also looks like you are tip-toeing around him.
5. You spread random seeds of paranoia about the werewolves potentially recruiting and tie it back to GentlemanJohnny in a ridiculously roundabout manner.
6. I don't understand your townread on Nacho or scumreads on Xyr, Ima, and Rodemy.
7. The "never fear, I will spam again" line is terrible because if you are town who thinks it's best to sit back and observe, why not justify it rather than molding your playstyle to kowtow to someone annoyance with you?
Going through all of that stuff, I actually prefer this vote.
Unvote: GentlemanJohnny
Vote: tomsloger
Also, I realized that part of the reason I've been skimming over your posts is your lack of proper punctuation, paragraph spacing, and capitalization which makes your posts difficult and tedious to understand. If English is genuinely not your first language, I'll put in the effort to understand you but if you are deliberately doing this as some kind of "internet speak," please stop, it is annoying.
@Oceanblack-you are unnecessarily confrontational. Any reason for that? Nothing in Tom's post has shown any indication that he is a non-native speaker. Your insult is thinly veiled and tacky. In general your posts feel pushed and I'd like an explanation why? If you have trouble understanding my English I can use simpler words, don't worry!
I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not. If he's isn't, that would have been fine but if he is, I suggested that he be clearer in his posts.
What scum motivation do you see in being confronational? Why is a passing remark about tomsloger of more interest to you than a seven point case? It looks like you are trying to fan the flames by squinting to find "insults" whereas if you cared about finding my alignment, you'd be focusing more on the game relevant content that I've made in that post.
Check out Day one of Tom's last completed game Predator Mafia. He was the town doctor and spammed the thread until he was day killed by the neutral.
You've also specifically asked me to look at Tom's completed game which I ignored completely to vote Tom for my own reasons and you made no comment on that either.
I'm confrontational because it is a great way to induce alignment indicative responses from other players. Scum and town often react very differently to being aggressively pushed and challenged on their viewpoints. I press players hard early game to drive the game forward and push people into committing to positions and taking stances. This is especially useful in multiball because most scum will be genuinely hunting for the other scumteam. However, the one difference even in multiball is that the scum care about their survival much more than town and will alter their behavior to increase the chances of survival even if their scumhunting takes a hit. I won't go into the exact details until later on in the game as I don't want to give scum a checklist.
Thus far, TappingStones is my strongest read that eclipses my scumreads on any other player and it is at a different level than any of my other votes or suspicions. Fanning the flames is often a very strong scumtell.
TappingStones is using the fact that I suggested that English isn't your native language to manipulate you into turning against me. Anyone who's played more than a couple of mafia games know that being confrontational or insulting players (which I haven't done by the way) isn't a scumtell. TappingStones trying to bring it into the limelight and make it a focal point of discussion shows that he wants to spread discord and arguments between the two of us. He did this to the exclusion of commenting on anything else I said in that post strengthens my scumread.
I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not. If he's isn't, that would have been fine but if he is, I suggested that he be clearer in his posts.
What scum motivation do you see in being confronational? Why is a passing remark about tomsloger of more interest to you than a seven point case? It looks like you are trying to fan the flames by squinting to find "insults" whereas if you cared about finding my alignment, you'd be focusing more on the game relevant content that I've made in that post.
Unvote: tomsloger
Vote: TappingStones
I don't buy this. He's shown nothing that would lead any sane person to believe he is a non-native speaker. I live in China and deal with non-native English speakers on a daily basis (who come from all over the world) I don't see any reasonable way for you to make this suggestion without trying to be insulting. I'll also address the posts which are further down the line as I don't want to double post.
I never mentioned any scum motivations. I'm just curious on your behavior as I've already explained. The "fanning the flames" comment is bizarre. I clearly showed that I wanted you to stop, hence my comments that if you can't understand my English I would use simpler words. YOur attitude is very relevant to your alignment. YOur currently the only player that seems to be reacting with such hostility and I really want to know why. Maybe it's something that will help me clear you as town later, maybe it will lead to you being caught as scum. It's presently unclear.
Then you make the weird post about me not commenting on you not commenting. Huh? I suggested you check out his last game. If you do great, if you don't then that's just less data for you to work with. You're certainly not required to do so. I wasn't waiting on you to give me feedback. Strange...
Basically you lied when you said that you weren't sure Tom was a native speaker because it was quite obvious that you were trying to be hostile, which is all well and good, but it didn't get by me and then your OMGUS vote on me didn't do you any favors. I picture you nervously at the keyboard, typing without contemplation with shaky hands...and I want to know WHY? What is the motivation?
If you have trouble understanding my English I can use simpler words, don't worry!
The potshot at the end here is also very well-timed. I never said I had any trouble understanding TappingStones's English. What I said was that tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand. This misses the point entirely.
If you have trouble understanding my English I can use simpler words, don't worry!
The potshot at the end here is also very well-timed. I never said I had any trouble understanding TappingStones's English. What I said was that tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand. This misses the point entirely.
You said "I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not." Now you are saying "Tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand." These are your words. They clearly reflect different meanings. The most recent one is a backpedal. You are backpedaling and not well I might add. Now this doesn't mean you are scum but why are you being so weird and throwing out obvious lies? I think Tom's current game is much different than his last game, that has been a standout for me in this early game but you've really brought the spotlight onto yourself. It doesn't make sense. Bad town or scum?
I don't buy this. He's shown nothing that would lead any sane person to believe he is a non-native speaker. I live in China and deal with non-native English speakers on a daily basis (who come from all over the world) I don't see any reasonable way for you to make this suggestion without trying to be insulting. I'll also address the posts which are further down the line as I don't want to double post. I never mentioned any scum motivations. I'm just curious on your behavior as I've already explained. The "fanning the flames" comment is bizarre. I clearly showed that I wanted you to stop, hence my comments that if you can't understand my English I would use simpler words.
We're discussing this only because you decided to make it a point of discussion. If you disagreed with me, all you had to do was not comment on that post. But you did. You want him to be mad at me for insinuating that he wasn't a native speaker which is why you are entering into an extensive discussion with me about whether he sounds like a native speaker to you. You wanted me to stop suggesting that tomsloger wasn't a native speaker is ridiculous because I only said it once. You decided to poke and prod at it to instigate conflict. You then wax eloquent about how everything about tomsloger suggests that he's a native speaker hoping that he'd cheer you on from the sidelines.
YOur attitude is very relevant to your alignment. YOur currently the only player that seems to be reacting with such hostility and I really want to know why. Maybe it's something that will help me clear you as town later, maybe it will lead to you being caught as scum. It's presently unclear.
I've explained my rationale for being confrontational. I'm more interested in why you are looking at non-alignment indicative things that are playstyle tells at best. How long have you played mafia?
Then you make the weird post about me not commenting on you not commenting. Huh? I suggested you check out his last game. If you do great, if you don't then that's just less data for you to work with. You're certainly not required to do so. I wasn't waiting on you to give me feedback. Strange...
The question is not about the amount of data I have to work with. It is about whether you are making an attempt to read me based on the information I've posted in the thread.
Basically you lied when you said that you weren't sure Tom was a native speaker because it was quite obvious that you were trying to be hostile, which is all well and good, but it didn't get by me and then your OMGUS vote on me didn't do you any favors. I picture you nervously at the keyboard, typing without contemplation with shaky hands...and I want to know WHY? What is the motivation?
Lol, this is the biggest pile of garbage I've ever read. If you want to read me, why haven't you commented on anything game-relevant I've posted so far? Why are you continuing to harp on about the native speaker bull*****?
I don't like GJ's plan, but I do understand his reasoning and think that it's genuine.
I don't really have any clear reads at the moment.
@Necarg-Why don't you like GJ's plan? Why are you telling us that you don't have any reads? Did someone ask you for reads? I looked back and couldn't find anything.
You said "I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not." Now you are saying "Tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand." These are your words. They clearly reflect different meanings. The most recent one is a backpedal. You are backpedaling and not well I might add. Now this doesn't mean you are scum but why are you being so weird and throwing out obvious lies? I think Tom's current game is much different than his last game, that has been a standout for me in this early game but you've really brought the spotlight onto yourself. It doesn't make sense. Bad town or scum?
Yes, I said his posts were tedious to read and also that I wasn't sure that English was his native language, and yes they reflect different meanings. What os it? How is it a backpedal? Are you making ***** up now? Continue bull*****ting scumbag, lol.
I don't buy this. He's shown nothing that would lead any sane person to believe he is a non-native speaker. I live in China and deal with non-native English speakers on a daily basis (who come from all over the world) I don't see any reasonable way for you to make this suggestion without trying to be insulting. I'll also address the posts which are further down the line as I don't want to double post. I never mentioned any scum motivations. I'm just curious on your behavior as I've already explained. The "fanning the flames" comment is bizarre. I clearly showed that I wanted you to stop, hence my comments that if you can't understand my English I would use simpler words.
We're discussing this only because you decided to make it a point of discussion. If you disagreed with me, all you had to do was not comment on that post. But you did. You want him to be mad at me for insinuating that he wasn't a native speaker which is why you are entering into an extensive discussion with me about whether he sounds like a native speaker to you. You wanted me to stop suggesting that tomsloger wasn't a native speaker is ridiculous because I only said it once. You decided to poke and prod at it to instigate conflict. You then wax eloquent about how everything about tomsloger suggests that he's a native speaker hoping that he'd cheer you on from the sidelines.
YOur attitude is very relevant to your alignment. YOur currently the only player that seems to be reacting with such hostility and I really want to know why. Maybe it's something that will help me clear you as town later, maybe it will lead to you being caught as scum. It's presently unclear.
I've explained my rationale for being confrontational. I'm more interested in why you are looking at non-alignment indicative things that are playstyle tells at best. How long have you played mafia?
Then you make the weird post about me not commenting on you not commenting. Huh? I suggested you check out his last game. If you do great, if you don't then that's just less data for you to work with. You're certainly not required to do so. I wasn't waiting on you to give me feedback. Strange...
The question is not about the amount of data I have to work with. It is about whether you are making an attempt to read me based on the information I've posted in the thread.
Basically you lied when you said that you weren't sure Tom was a native speaker because it was quite obvious that you were trying to be hostile, which is all well and good, but it didn't get by me and then your OMGUS vote on me didn't do you any favors. I picture you nervously at the keyboard, typing without contemplation with shaky hands...and I want to know WHY? What is the motivation?
Lol, this is the biggest pile of garbage I've ever read. If you want to read me, why haven't you commented on anything game-relevant I've posted so far? Why are you continuing to harp on about the native speaker bull*****?
What you consider game relevant is different from what others consider game relevant. Right now you come across as a new player, nervous and lashing out at everyone who is interacting with you. Your use of superlatives suggest that you don't have a valid answer to my post. Saying things like "This is the biggest...." means "I have nothing to say so I'm going to compare your writing to something I think is bad." I caught you in a lie and you're trying hard to back out of it.
And in regards to Tom, he's lean scum for me at this point. I don't need him to cheer me on, and haven't considered that at any point, the fact that YOU are considering it suggests that you aren't scum hunting. You are trying to create the impression of false friends and false motivations, but the big problem is that you are responding with these accusations without ANY hesitation. The results are statements that fall flat. You aren't convincing or sincere.
What you consider game relevant is different from what others consider game relevant. Right now you come across as a new player, nervous and lashing out at everyone who is interacting with you.
I've played quite a lot of mafia elsewhere and I don't think I've hidden the fact that I'm experienced at all so this looks more like you are trying to discredit my suspicion of you. New players don't often scumhunt the way I did or use the types of arguments I've used. You also haven't answered my question. How much mafia experience do you have? The only way I can see you coming to this conclusion is you yourself are new. The types of arguments you are using "you are confrontational and hostile" aren't things even a moderately experienced player would say nor is it something that one would focus on in the first place. It looks like you are throwing out buzzwords without actually understanding the motivations behind how players behave.
I'm not going to continue this nonsensical discussion as I want to see others weigh in.
What you consider game relevant is different from what others consider game relevant. Right now you come across as a new player, nervous and lashing out at everyone who is interacting with you.
I've played quite a lot of mafia elsewhere and I don't think I've hidden the fact that I'm experienced at all so this looks more like you are trying to discredit my suspicion of you. New players don't often scumhunt the way I did or use the types of arguments I've used. You also haven't answered my question. How much mafia experience do you have? The only way I can see you coming to this conclusion is you yourself are new. The types of arguments you are using "you are confrontational and hostile" aren't things even a moderately experienced player would say nor is it something that one would focus on in the first place. It looks like you are throwing out buzzwords without actually understanding the motivations behind how players behave.
I'm not going to continue this nonsensical discussion as I want to see others weigh in.
You haven't addressed why you lied? Or why you are so nervous?. Could you please address these without personal attacks? I do thank you for acknowledging that you are taking part in a nonsensical discussion because that's how it looks to me as well. Just answer the questions.
Wow, I can't believe someone is this obviously scummy. Usually, scum try to cover up their tracks and not try to be obvious. I just hope the playerlist is good enough to recognize that we have a pretty clear cut case here because the only way TappingStones doesn't insta-lynched is if the town is bad beyond belief.
I haven't "lied" anywhere nor am I nervous. You haven't answered my question about how much mafia you've played.
Just a couple games on this site. Why aren't you answering my questions?
You did lie. You first said that you mentioned Tom's English because you thought he was a non-native speaker, implication being that he was making many mistakes. You were called out on it and then you said that his capitalization was a reason that his posts were unclear. Which is hilariously bad as a reason. I went back and looked and his punctuation doesn't deviate from the norm, at least on the internet or from posters on this site.
Calling your own argument nonsense is also strange but you haven't made a whole lot of sense since your arrival so perhaps that's your meta.
His "good point" was telling me that you were a native english speaker?
his good points are that you are actively hostile and lashing out at your attacker.
and for the record, i did not find anything you said insulting. im cool with people finding me annoying, just as you should be cool with people thinking youre an ass.
his reaction to your hostility is, frankly, expected. what about it makes you think scum?
his good points are that you are actively hostile and lashing out at your attacker.
and for the record, i did not find anything you said insulting. im cool with people finding me annoying, just as you should be cool with people thinking youre an ass.
his reaction to your hostility is, frankly, expected. what about it makes you think scum?
But that's fine. You're probably scum as well and if not, you're pretty terrible at this game. I'll just wait for the better players to show up and quickvote the hell out of this dude.
his good points are that you are actively hostile and lashing out at your attacker.
and for the record, i did not find anything you said insulting. im cool with people finding me annoying, just as you should be cool with people thinking youre an ass.
his reaction to your hostility is, frankly, expected. what about it makes you think scum?
Um, are you reading anything all that he posted?
yes. every word. he is guileless town reacting like a normal person would to hostility.
you seem to think the case against him is obvious, but thats apparently not the case. do you want to actually make the case? because you havent yet.
But that's fine. You're probably scum as well and if not, you're pretty terrible at this game. I'll just wait for the better players to show up and quickvote the hell out of this dude.
You would seriously benefit from a course in logic. You do know that personal attacks and profanity don't make your case any stronger and suggest that your argument is void of meaning right?
But that's fine. You're probably scum as well and if not, you're pretty terrible at this game. I'll just wait for the better players to show up and quickvote the hell out of this dude.
It reads like a posting restriction... which I hate and are easily fakeable. To modgame, I think Iso enjoys Posting Restrictions, but I can't remember if I've ever seen him put one in.
Also, for those of you trying to overreact to my RVS vote, I have multiple points:
1) **** RVS
2) I voted tomsloger due to our engagement in our last game together
3) **** RVS
4) Why is this such a point of contention?
I really hate people who try to read anything into RVS stuff, especially the first ******* post of the game.
Unvote
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I think he's running a gambit badly. Since I doubt Iso would put in a doctor who can block all kills aimed at his target each night (instead of just one), since that could throw the game hopelessly out of wack, claiming an investigative role is asking to get murdered tonight if it's true. Hence, I don't think it's true.
I assume if he's alive tomorrow morning, he's going to say "oh I got roleblocked soz" and we'll be in the same position we're in right now. So I'd sooner shake him upside-down and see if scum tells start falling out.
I dislike how you are kind of playing both sides here. You say you have voted the claimed cop role because you think it's some kind of gambit. Because if he's telling the truth he's just going to get killed. Except, of course, he could be protected, so you kind of head that idea off by suggesting that both scum groups would try to kill him, and assume any doctor role wouldn't protect against that, so it's still a bad idea. And then, if he doesn't die, you are already assuming he'll claim RB (which, gee, if the scum have a RBer, they could, in fact, totally RB him) and, therefore he won't be able to "prove it" and is still scum.
Like. you have created a no-win situation here based on the (very faulty) premise, that no one would ever claim an investigative role out of the blue. Which you ought to know just isn't the case.
This is a good post by Axelrod, but Xyre is pretty much inviting himself to be attacked.
also, ive been led to believe that gaming the setup is a losing proposition, but does anyone think that the werewolf team may have the ability to recruit/infect/whatever you want to call it?
that possibility really makes me hate the proposition of not lynching (be it by getting on GJ's no lynch wagon or by nacho blocking the lynch)
Looking forward to this info. Also tom is probably not werewolf.
The best way to form reads is proactively. The best way to get others to produce content is by producing content yourself.
Not answering other's questions is good and well, but electing instead to do nothing is a pretty poor compromise.
I expected blowback from people saying my claim is stupid; "early claims are bad" is a pretty common line of thought, but no one's actually stated why they felt my claim was bad, so my viewpoint on it hasn't really changed. Do you think my claim was bad?
I also understand you dislike the use of my power in general, but do you think my claim is more likely to come from scum or town? Why?
What do you think of Xyre?
forming reads proactively? now i'm really worried about your power. if you arent forming your reads reactively, what the hell are you doing?
what questions have i missed answering?
i dont have a particular read on you either way. if i had to guess now, i would say town thats likely to muck up the game. but i also think you might be mayor of avabruck
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
Are you voting anyone yet? If not, please vote. Let me see your mind in action.
@Tom: My argument is that I'm town because my role is too powerful for scum; the power to force town to use multiple lynches in an attempt to kill my scumbuddies is extremely overpowered. Do you disagree with that?
Instead of hitting preview, I accidentally hit submit. I don't want to quote them all again so I'll lay out what I don't understand here:
1. Your first post to Nacho is pointless. You suggest that his claim is only useful if he's scum without directly calling him scum. You state the obvious: that a town-directed kill of town may not be beneficial.
2. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about with the WIFOM point.
3. You state that your job as town is to scumhunt. Is there a reason you're just spouting theory?
4. You tell Nacho that many people think he's dumb. What does that have to do with anything? The way you are asking the question also looks like you are tip-toeing around him.
5. You spread random seeds of paranoia about the werewolves potentially recruiting and tie it back to GentlemanJohnny in a ridiculously roundabout manner.
6. I don't understand your townread on Nacho or scumreads on Xyr, Ima, and Rodemy.
7. The "never fear, I will spam again" line is terrible because if you are town who thinks it's best to sit back and observe, why not justify it rather than molding your playstyle to kowtow to someone annoyance with you?
Going through all of that stuff, I actually prefer this vote.
Unvote: GentlemanJohnny
Vote: tomsloger
Also, I realized that part of the reason I've been skimming over your posts is your lack of proper punctuation, paragraph spacing, and capitalization which makes your posts difficult and tedious to understand. If English is genuinely not your first language, I'll put in the effort to understand you but if you are deliberately doing this as some kind of "internet speak," please stop, it is annoying.
@Oceanblack-you are unnecessarily confrontational. Any reason for that? Nothing in Tom's post has shown any indication that he is a non-native speaker. Your insult is thinly veiled and tacky. In general your posts feel pushed and I'd like an explanation why? If you have trouble understanding my English I can use simpler words, don't worry!
I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not. If he's isn't, that would have been fine but if he is, I suggested that he be clearer in his posts.
What scum motivation do you see in being confronational? Why is a passing remark about tomsloger of more interest to you than a seven point case? It looks like you are trying to fan the flames by squinting to find "insults" whereas if you cared about finding my alignment, you'd be focusing more on the game relevant content that I've made in that post.
Unvote: tomsloger
Vote: TappingStones
I find myself liking OceanBlack. He's a jerk but I don't think he's scum.
Wow, I can't believe someone is this obviously scummy. Usually, scum try to cover up their tracks and not try to be obvious. I just hope the playerlist is good enough to recognize that we have a pretty clear cut case here because the only way TappingStones doesn't insta-lynched is if the town is bad beyond belief.
I've been wrong on TS once before. Giving the benefit of the doubt, but I want to see a vote.
The fact that Jobie chose to "clearly label" his vote as RVS is itself a minor scumtell. He's trying to avoid responsibility for casting the vote by taking an overly neutral stance. There are several useful things he could have done with his first post in the game. He could have voted someone he knew in order to facilitate an interaction that would help him read them. He could have commented on the only notable thing that happened thus far in the game (Nacho saying he's town rather than just confirming). He could have voted without clarifying that it was RVS thus instigating queries and discussion to push the game forward. He did none of that and chose the safest play that a player could possibly make: an RVS post with clear LABEL tacked on suggesting to us all that that was an RVS vote and he's not to blame for any blowback or discussion that could possibly result from it. That looks like squirmy scum trying to fly under the radar.
Well, thank you for answering. I declare this to be a very severe case of Mountain -> Molehill. I prescribe you one chill pill.
@Xyre: trapping? Or something else.
I have an issue with Tordeck, in that he's acting like he's got a posting restriction, but one of his posts was "Yo Vanilla." Which suggests he's also claiming Vanilla Town. (1) Personally, I would never claim "vanilla" town if I had a posting restriction. Maybe that's just me, but that wouldn't feel right. But also (2) Claiming Vanilla Town (i.e. no positive abilities) for no reason is a terrible idea, especially if you do, in fact, have a posting restriction.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I find myself liking OceanBlack. He's a jerk but I don't think he's scum.
I may feel about the same.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm enjoying a breakfast bagel sandwich with hot cocoa. It's snowing and I'm listening to techno music on my drive to work. Texting while driving in the snow is badass.
IGMEOY Nachos. Your role only gets you so far, your actions will provide the proof.
Are you effing kidding me.
Why would I be kidding? To claim on page one of the thread is a pretty ballsy move. I do believe it's possible that he isn't long and is town, but I'm not going to just take his word for it. What has he done that makes you think I'm wrong for adopting this stance?
@oceanblack yes, thats what i said... they all seem to be fairly clear with the possible exception of "ha! love the flashback!" which was a reference to my attack on tappingstones changing his tone after Day 1 in my first game.
@rodemy im not voting you. nor is anyone as far as i can tell.
and youre asking why wildfire said something with his rvs vote. i can answer it for you: because rvs.
I... never said anything about you voting me. Strange you shouls mention that at all.
Also, i asked wildfire. Soooooo....
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Hey guys, something unexpected has come up for me at work and I'm going to have to replace out of this game as I can't keep up the level of activity and investment for a next month or two. You know what my reads are. TappingStones is scum. Tomsloger is a good vote too. Don't ever lynch Nachomamma8. He's town. Hopefully, I see you guys again when I have more time to spare.
1. Your first post to Nacho is pointless. You suggest that his claim is only useful if he's scum without directly calling him scum. You state the obvious: that a town-directed kill of town may not be beneficial.
2. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about with the WIFOM point.
3. You state that your job as town is to scumhunt. Is there a reason you're just spouting theory?
4. You tell Nacho that many people think he's dumb. What does that have to do with anything? The way you are asking the question also looks like you are tip-toeing around him.
5. You spread random seeds of paranoia about the werewolves potentially recruiting and tie it back to GentlemanJohnny in a ridiculously roundabout manner.
6. I don't understand your townread on Nacho or scumreads on Xyr, Ima, and Rodemy.
7. The "never fear, I will spam again" line is terrible because if you are town who thinks it's best to sit back and observe, why not justify it rather than molding your playstyle to kowtow to someone annoyance with you?
Going through all of that stuff, I actually prefer this vote.
Unvote: GentlemanJohnny
Vote: tomsloger
Also, I realized that part of the reason I've been skimming over your posts is your lack of proper punctuation, paragraph spacing, and capitalization which makes your posts difficult and tedious to understand. If English is genuinely not your first language, I'll put in the effort to understand you but if you are deliberately doing this as some kind of "internet speak," please stop, it is annoying.
This is me
@rodemy im not voting you. nor is anyone as far as i can tell.
and youre asking why wildfire said something with his rvs vote. i can answer it for you: because rvs.
to your points:
1 i agree it was obvious. thats why i responded to nacho's differing opinion. i dont think he's scum, i think his power (if true) is more likely to harm than help
2 i have no idea what imabusinessman is talking about with the wifom point. i looked it up in the glossary and it does not seem to be related at all. pehaps you could shed some light, but i'd rather if he did.
3 my job is to scumhunt. im "spouting theory" in response to being asked why i have changed from my other game.
4 i dont really think i'm tiptoeing around him. i am pretty obviously calling him out for playing badly.
5 i AM paranoid about wolves having that ability. i certainly didnt mean to relate gentlemanjohnny to that, he has just been the only proponent of a no lynch and i am stating that i dont want that.
6 i will eventually have actual reads on people, and i will elaborate on them then.
7 i will spam again. thats just who i am. it seems it is going to annoy you and will continue to annoy jobie. so be it.
and english is my first language. this is another "just who i am" thing. all of my posting is conversational and stream of conscious. i dont really see the problem with punctuation other than skipping the apostrophes in almost all contractions.
the capitalization will never change, thats a product of my handwriting being all caps. ive never heard that it hinders understanding before, but its too late for me to change now.
are you voting me because i annoy you or do you genuinely think i'm scum?
@nachotammy i do not disagree with that. i think if your claim is true you are certainly town. that power is completely broken for scum and a mild hindrance for town (at least the way you are using it).
also, see point 6 above
^This looks like you're reading way too much into the very first post of the game...
I think it would be naive for anyone to just take your word for it. While the role does seem overpowered in the hands of the mafia, we know nothing yet about the setup of this game. Just off the top of my head:
[Random speculation that should not be taken seriously]
1) Town:12 Mafia:3 Werewolves:3 - The scum teams are each playing a game of 15v3.
2) Town:14 Mafia:2 Werewolves:2 - Seems like town is incredibly powerful in this setup, so maybe give scum powerful roles they wouldn't normally have access to.
3) Town:14 Mafia:3 Werewolves:1 - Start with 1 wolf and give the alpha wolf the infect ability.
[/Random speculation that should not be taken seriously]
I'm not trying to start a debate as to the setup, I just think that until we know more we should be careful about blindly believing that someone's role is indicative of their alignment.
IGMEOY Nachos. Your role only gets you so far, your actions will provide the proof.
I love that some people talk about RVS like it is some sort of "safe haven" when nothing you do can be questioned. Personally, I find that line of thinking lazy, noobish, garbage. Reads can be formed as early as post one.
You've been very neutral in your assessment of me. What does the fact that I'm reading a lot into the first post of the game tell you about my alignment?
My assessment of you is coming across as neutral because that's how I'm reading you. You're focusing on an RVS post for reasons you believe are valid, and if I tried to use this as a basis to town or scum read you then I would be the one reading too much into things.
@Oceanblack-you are unnecessarily confrontational. Any reason for that? Nothing in Tom's post has shown any indication that he is a non-native speaker. Your insult is thinly veiled and tacky. In general your posts feel pushed and I'd like an explanation why? If you have trouble understanding my English I can use simpler words, don't worry!
What scum motivation do you see in being confronational? Why is a passing remark about tomsloger of more interest to you than a seven point case? It looks like you are trying to fan the flames by squinting to find "insults" whereas if you cared about finding my alignment, you'd be focusing more on the game relevant content that I've made in that post.
Unvote: tomsloger
Vote: TappingStones
You've also specifically asked me to look at Tom's completed game which I ignored completely to vote Tom for my own reasons and you made no comment on that either.
also you very definitely understood most of my posts. you had questions, but none of them were about comprehension.
Thus far, TappingStones is my strongest read that eclipses my scumreads on any other player and it is at a different level than any of my other votes or suspicions. Fanning the flames is often a very strong scumtell.
TappingStones is using the fact that I suggested that English isn't your native language to manipulate you into turning against me. Anyone who's played more than a couple of mafia games know that being confrontational or insulting players (which I haven't done by the way) isn't a scumtell. TappingStones trying to bring it into the limelight and make it a focal point of discussion shows that he wants to spread discord and arguments between the two of us. He did this to the exclusion of commenting on anything else I said in that post strengthens my scumread.
I don't buy this. He's shown nothing that would lead any sane person to believe he is a non-native speaker. I live in China and deal with non-native English speakers on a daily basis (who come from all over the world) I don't see any reasonable way for you to make this suggestion without trying to be insulting. I'll also address the posts which are further down the line as I don't want to double post.
I never mentioned any scum motivations. I'm just curious on your behavior as I've already explained. The "fanning the flames" comment is bizarre. I clearly showed that I wanted you to stop, hence my comments that if you can't understand my English I would use simpler words. YOur attitude is very relevant to your alignment. YOur currently the only player that seems to be reacting with such hostility and I really want to know why. Maybe it's something that will help me clear you as town later, maybe it will lead to you being caught as scum. It's presently unclear.
Then you make the weird post about me not commenting on you not commenting. Huh? I suggested you check out his last game. If you do great, if you don't then that's just less data for you to work with. You're certainly not required to do so. I wasn't waiting on you to give me feedback. Strange...
Basically you lied when you said that you weren't sure Tom was a native speaker because it was quite obvious that you were trying to be hostile, which is all well and good, but it didn't get by me and then your OMGUS vote on me didn't do you any favors. I picture you nervously at the keyboard, typing without contemplation with shaky hands...and I want to know WHY? What is the motivation?
The potshot at the end here is also very well-timed. I never said I had any trouble understanding TappingStones's English. What I said was that tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand. This misses the point entirely.
You said "I didn't know whether tom was a native speaker or not." Now you are saying "Tomsloger's poor punctuation and capitalization make his posts tedious to read and understand." These are your words. They clearly reflect different meanings. The most recent one is a backpedal. You are backpedaling and not well I might add. Now this doesn't mean you are scum but why are you being so weird and throwing out obvious lies? I think Tom's current game is much different than his last game, that has been a standout for me in this early game but you've really brought the spotlight onto yourself. It doesn't make sense. Bad town or scum?
tappingstones because he remains lighthearted and guileless, oceanblack because theres no way scum is this openly hostile.
We're discussing this only because you decided to make it a point of discussion. If you disagreed with me, all you had to do was not comment on that post. But you did. You want him to be mad at me for insinuating that he wasn't a native speaker which is why you are entering into an extensive discussion with me about whether he sounds like a native speaker to you. You wanted me to stop suggesting that tomsloger wasn't a native speaker is ridiculous because I only said it once. You decided to poke and prod at it to instigate conflict. You then wax eloquent about how everything about tomsloger suggests that he's a native speaker hoping that he'd cheer you on from the sidelines.
I've explained my rationale for being confrontational. I'm more interested in why you are looking at non-alignment indicative things that are playstyle tells at best. How long have you played mafia?
The question is not about the amount of data I have to work with. It is about whether you are making an attempt to read me based on the information I've posted in the thread.
Lol, this is the biggest pile of garbage I've ever read. If you want to read me, why haven't you commented on anything game-relevant I've posted so far? Why are you continuing to harp on about the native speaker bull*****?
@Necarg-Why don't you like GJ's plan? Why are you telling us that you don't have any reads? Did someone ask you for reads? I looked back and couldn't find anything.
Yes, I said his posts were tedious to read and also that I wasn't sure that English was his native language, and yes they reflect different meanings. What os it? How is it a backpedal? Are you making ***** up now? Continue bull*****ting scumbag, lol.
he made some good points but they were, unfortunately, about you the person rather than your role in this game.
sort of the same problem you had/have with me i suspect.
you are now the one harping on things.
His "good point" was telling me that you were a native english speaker?
I get scumvibes off of both of you but I feel reasonably sure you're not scum together which probably means scum on opposite teams.
What you consider game relevant is different from what others consider game relevant. Right now you come across as a new player, nervous and lashing out at everyone who is interacting with you. Your use of superlatives suggest that you don't have a valid answer to my post. Saying things like "This is the biggest...." means "I have nothing to say so I'm going to compare your writing to something I think is bad." I caught you in a lie and you're trying hard to back out of it.
And in regards to Tom, he's lean scum for me at this point. I don't need him to cheer me on, and haven't considered that at any point, the fact that YOU are considering it suggests that you aren't scum hunting. You are trying to create the impression of false friends and false motivations, but the big problem is that you are responding with these accusations without ANY hesitation. The results are statements that fall flat. You aren't convincing or sincere.
I've played quite a lot of mafia elsewhere and I don't think I've hidden the fact that I'm experienced at all so this looks more like you are trying to discredit my suspicion of you. New players don't often scumhunt the way I did or use the types of arguments I've used. You also haven't answered my question. How much mafia experience do you have? The only way I can see you coming to this conclusion is you yourself are new. The types of arguments you are using "you are confrontational and hostile" aren't things even a moderately experienced player would say nor is it something that one would focus on in the first place. It looks like you are throwing out buzzwords without actually understanding the motivations behind how players behave.
I'm not going to continue this nonsensical discussion as I want to see others weigh in.
You haven't addressed why you lied? Or why you are so nervous?. Could you please address these without personal attacks? I do thank you for acknowledging that you are taking part in a nonsensical discussion because that's how it looks to me as well. Just answer the questions.
Just a couple games on this site. Why aren't you answering my questions?
You did lie. You first said that you mentioned Tom's English because you thought he was a non-native speaker, implication being that he was making many mistakes. You were called out on it and then you said that his capitalization was a reason that his posts were unclear. Which is hilariously bad as a reason. I went back and looked and his punctuation doesn't deviate from the norm, at least on the internet or from posters on this site.
Calling your own argument nonsense is also strange but you haven't made a whole lot of sense since your arrival so perhaps that's your meta.
and for the record, i did not find anything you said insulting. im cool with people finding me annoying, just as you should be cool with people thinking youre an ass.
his reaction to your hostility is, frankly, expected. what about it makes you think scum?
Um, are you reading anything all that he posted?
maybe you guys should meet on your common ground. remember that you both think i am scum. thats gotta be something.
you seem to think the case against him is obvious, but thats apparently not the case. do you want to actually make the case? because you havent yet.
You would seriously benefit from a course in logic. You do know that personal attacks and profanity don't make your case any stronger and suggest that your argument is void of meaning right?
"You Can't Always Get What You Want"
The Family
Also, for those of you trying to overreact to my RVS vote, I have multiple points:
1) **** RVS
2) I voted tomsloger due to our engagement in our last game together
3) **** RVS
4) Why is this such a point of contention?
I really hate people who try to read anything into RVS stuff, especially the first ******* post of the game.
Unvote
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
They're not buddies, at least. This question is too generalized. Better question: Are you suspicious of anyone who called your claim dumb? Looking forward to this info. Also tom is probably not werewolf. Are you voting anyone yet? If not, please vote. Let me see your mind in action. omg omg omg
Vote Tom Hint: He's scum No way. I loved Sunglasses Coolpizza! Hello Nacho... Are you effing kidding me. Where's your vote? I find myself liking OceanBlack. He's a jerk but I don't think he's scum. Hi this is a game of mafia. I'm having issue that TappingStones hasn't voted anyone yet. But Ocean is town. I've been wrong on TS once before. Giving the benefit of the doubt, but I want to see a vote.
Well, thank you for answering. I declare this to be a very severe case of Mountain -> Molehill. I prescribe you one chill pill.
@Xyre: trapping? Or something else.
I have an issue with Tordeck, in that he's acting like he's got a posting restriction, but one of his posts was "Yo Vanilla." Which suggests he's also claiming Vanilla Town. (1) Personally, I would never claim "vanilla" town if I had a posting restriction. Maybe that's just me, but that wouldn't feel right. But also (2) Claiming Vanilla Town (i.e. no positive abilities) for no reason is a terrible idea, especially if you do, in fact, have a posting restriction.
I may feel about the same.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm enjoying a breakfast bagel sandwich with hot cocoa. It's snowing and I'm listening to techno music on my drive to work. Texting while driving in the snow is badass.
Why would I be kidding? To claim on page one of the thread is a pretty ballsy move. I do believe it's possible that he isn't long and is town, but I'm not going to just take his word for it. What has he done that makes you think I'm wrong for adopting this stance?
Long -> Lying...
I... never said anything about you voting me. Strange you shouls mention that at all.
Also, i asked wildfire. Soooooo....
Disregard previous shade.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mod, please replace me.
The Family