More specifically, I was about to vote you for being a complete liar. Then I realized you were talking about my rolecop fakeclaim, and realized that there's no possible way for you to be mafia. Literally no possible way.
Unless you're a godly page 1 bluffer, which isn't you're style.
I'm the Mafia's Rolecop.[/quote[quote from="Sir Chris »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/630696-battle-for-vanillaville-2-infernal-affairs-game?comment=37"]Seppel is like the evil version of me
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Because I was talking about you as a player not as you a person with a role.
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The real reason I think that post makes Seppel scum is because I had thought to claim my actual role too very early, and Seppel is like the evil version of me so it makes sense that he would do this as scum.
How are you not talking about your role right there???
I mean that I had the thought to claim, as a player. You, being an evil version of me, also had the thought to claim, as a player. So you did. I think you are scum who literally claimed scum thinking he could get away with it and it has backfired.
I didn't correct you then because I was thinking of letting scum think I was a role cop of sorts, but then I realized that didn't really change much so!
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Miss Scarlet, regarding your third question, I believe I understand why you would ask (as town) but I find the scenario in which you are not town and asking to be infinitely more probable in this case.
If you could kindly elucidate me, however, I may stand corrected.
Firstly, for everyone who doesn't know the history Iso and I have: we are completely unable to read each other, despite talking outside of MTGS pretty much every day. This is a topic that comes up pretty much every game.
Secondly, for everyone who doesn't know Iso's confidence claim (or whatever it's called): If Iso claims VT in a game where there are more role options than VT and scum, he is confirmed town. If he's scum, he does not claim VT.
I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out Iso's tell. I even made a flowchart once. I've gotten on to some pretty good tracks, but in the end, every single track leads back to this: If I am to figure out Iso's alignment, I need to hear his role claim. I cannot read him naturally, but he's liable to make up bull***** but believable claims when scum. My methods even there aren't perfect either (one game maybe a year ago I ****ed up hard because his claim was the claim that would be the best thing for him to claim as scum, but he actually had it as town. BTW Iso, that's a counter-example where I was town and cared about your role; it's also not the only one by far), but it's better than when I try to read him and inevitably decide that Iso is scum.
So yes, Iso, in every game where I'm town I do want to know your role, and this has been true for a very long time. And I'd say it's almost the opposite; I don't care about your role as much when I'm scum; see, for example, True Name Mafia, where I never questioned that you were town. Given that this game is named Vanillaville, I figured chances were higher that you were vanilla, and Seppel made me start thinking about your confidence claim again.
I mean that I had the thought to claim, as a player. You, being an evil version of me, also had the thought to claim, as a player. So you did. I think you are scum who literally claimed scum thinking he could get away with it and it has backfired.
I didn't correct you then because I was thinking of letting scum think I was a role cop of sorts, but then I realized that didn't really change much so!
That is so stupid. Nothing else I'm going to gain out of you by talking to you directly, then. Go interact with other players. I'll do the same.
(...I say, realizing it's just the "four" of us talking to each other.)
Oh wait, Scarlet_Electric is just Wheat; Iso_II is the cluster of players. I learned this by reading the four posts of this game that aren't ours, and I am sadly disappointed in those four posts.
I suppose that is the reasoning I suspected you might use, and that is a fair point with regards to XKCD, but based on what my role actually is, you might as well get voting me out of your system, because you are likely to think my role is a falseclaim. ^^
Mod Mafia 8 was the game where I was the Cop and you were the Vig, so I falsecrumbed Bulletproof so that you would not shoot me. Smalltown Swap was the game where you were mafia-aligned, and I was town, and you aggressively pushed me to claim Vanilla so that I would then be "trust tell confirmed", which ended up being a fabricated means of not needing to reconcile your lack of attempt at reading me in that game. Your approach in this game very strongly reminded me of that game, to the point of where I am calling you out for it.
... So I'm just going to admit I didn't know Blue was Iso and take the rest of the day to sleep now.
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I am not VT. I am not a Miller. That is all my role related info I am willing to share right now.
There are now 3 people with 1 post.
Reads: Of those who have posted.
Scarlet. Noob Town. Considering this is his first game, his actions make sense.
Blue: Null. I can't really get good tells d1.
Seppel: I have a feeling this one's scum by way of WIFOM. Just saying.
SC: Null.
One of my reads was a joke.
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
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My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
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I am not VT. I am not a Miller. That is all my role related info I am willing to share right now.
There are now 3 people with 1 post.
Reads: Of those who have posted.
Scarlet. Noob Town. Considering this is his first game, his actions make sense.
Blue: Null. I can't really get good tells d1.
Seppel: I have a feeling this one's scum by way of WIFOM. Just saying.
SC: Null.
One of my reads was a joke.
If you can not get good tells on Day 1, then where does your read of Mister Sep stem from? Or do you mean to say that you can not good tells from me on Day 1?
I just realized I forgot to respond to Mister Hunt. ^^ That was not a very telling post in any way! Do you really have no commentary on the situation at hand?
Sorry to disappoint, but you'll have to wait another day.
Though there was a tiny part of me that wanted to draw scum just because you told me that you thought I couldn't fool you anymore, and I was like CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. That part was tiny though so sigh of relief still intact.
I'd tell you to please be town but every time I say that you're scum, so!
~~~
I'm having a bit of a dilemma here and I need to reread through the stuff to try to parse through this. I was going to come out swinging because when I researched games here while in the Porn Supremacy, I learned that you guys don't have more than three town roles in a 12-person mini which made someone in Seppel, Blue electric, and Sir Chris a big fat liar. But then I considered that Chris may not have been hinting a power role just saying he thought of claiming his role, which could be vt, but he never clarified that. BUT then that Nec dude also claimed not VT but didn't seem alarmed that seemingly three people, in addition to him, had already claimed when I think it should be setting off alarm bells, and now I just don't know what to think. Anyway, I am not vt and I doubt very very seriously town has five roles, so someone is lying.
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There is a large distinction between Basic-type games and Mini-type games, Miss Tammy. ^^ Basics are restrained in their power (though there have been instances of 4 town power roles in Basic games) whereas Minis have a wider range of roles. A popular format for Minis these days seems to be role madness, so I do not find it unlikely at all that everybody who has claimed power that is town is being truthful.
Also, while I realize that the Crosstown games followed the Basic format, that was so that there was less swing involved and so that we could see more reliance on behavioral analysis as opposed to letting power roles control the game. ^^
My read on Mister Sep is softer than my read on Miss Scarlet, actually. ^^ It is mostly gut-based; however, I definitely do not have faith in Mister Sep's ability to break this game with a massclaim, and feel as though he is attempting to strong-arm this through as a "town Seppel" action. He is also feigning ignorance with regards to Chris's posts surrounding his alleged claim, which is a painfully obvious attempt at aggressive fishing. His RVS post also read bizarrely to me, and not simply for the content. Finally, he claimed mafia Rolecop. In my experience, most people that claim to be non-town are, in fact, non-town, and if he is town, then skipping about merrily as he changes his claim every 7 posts is still not an action I wish to see a Seppel of any alignment perform, as it is a detriment to the town (even if he is not town, because if he makes it a meta-inconclusive behavior, then people may not lynch him for it in future games, which allows for the town to get obliterated) and not behavior I want from somebody on my team.
In short, Mister Sep is behaving as I would expect a member of the mafia to, and even if he is town-aligned, I would have no qualms with his death based on his behavior thus far.
Mister Hunt, you just finished co-modding a game where you saw a member of the mafia falsecrumb a power role early on. How do you reconcile this with your point of view on Miss Scarlet?
<b>vote blueelectric </b>
scummy "first" post brah
And now the obligotory i hate day 1 disclosure... I do.
This post stood out to me - id's using the greater than signs for bolding... like you do in Quicktopics. In the sign ups he said he was making his return to mafia this game... so I have a feeling he just recently picked up the habit. It would be unnatural to use those otherwise, especially when this entire board functions on the []
Feels a little bit unsporting... but you gets them how you gets them.
Also, the last line feels like a crutch where he wants to say he hates day 1, but realizes it's a cop out, so calls it out but still says it.
@Blue - why did you ignore that he thought your first post was scummy?
I am not VT. I am not a Miller. That is all my role related info I am willing to share right now.
There are now 3 people with 1 post.
Reads: Of those who have posted.
Scarlet. Noob Town. Considering this is his first game, his actions make sense.
Blue: Null. I can't really get good tells d1.
Seppel: I have a feeling this one's scum by way of WIFOM. Just saying.
SC: Null.
One of my reads was a joke.
That joke line and then his subsequent follow up to Wheat makes me feel pretty good about a town Necarg. I didn't see him joking too much in our last game and I didn't get the sense that was really part of his scum game.
Sorry to disappoint, but you'll have to wait another day.
Though there was a tiny part of me that wanted to draw scum just because you told me that you thought I couldn't fool you anymore, and I was like CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. That part was tiny though so sigh of relief still intact.
I'd tell you to please be town but every time I say that you're scum, so!
~~~
I'm having a bit of a dilemma here and I need to reread through the stuff to try to parse through this. I was going to come out swinging because when I researched games here while in the Porn Supremacy, I learned that you guys don't have more than three town roles in a 12-person mini which made someone in Seppel, Blue electric, and Sir Chris a big fat liar. But then I considered that Chris may not have been hinting a power role just saying he thought of claiming his role, which could be vt, but he never clarified that. BUT then that Nec dude also claimed not VT but didn't seem alarmed that seemingly three people, in addition to him, had already claimed when I think it should be setting off alarm bells, and now I just don't know what to think. Anyway, I am not vt and I doubt very very seriously town has five roles, so someone is lying.
Something about that last paragraph is giving me the creeps... but I'm not really sure how to explain why or if I'm sold that it should be, so I'm just going to leave this here for funsies, atm.
My read on Mister Sep is softer than my read on Miss Scarlet, actually. ^^ It is mostly gut-based; however, I definitely do not have faith in Mister Sep's ability to break this game with a massclaim, and feel as though he is attempting to strong-arm this through as a "town Seppel" action. He is also feigning ignorance with regards to Chris's posts surrounding his alleged claim, which is a painfully obvious attempt at aggressive fishing. His RVS post also read bizarrely to me, and not simply for the content. Finally, he claimed mafia Rolecop. In my experience, most people that claim to be non-town are, in fact, non-town, and if he is town, then skipping about merrily as he changes his claim every 7 posts is still not an action I wish to see a Seppel of any alignment perform, as it is a detriment to the town (even if he is not town, because if he makes it a meta-inconclusive behavior, then people may not lynch him for it in future games, which allows for the town to get obliterated) and not behavior I want from somebody on my team.
In short, Mister Sep is behaving as I would expect a member of the mafia to, and even if he is town-aligned, I would have no qualms with his death based on his behavior thus far.
I hope that clears it up for you, Miss Tammy.
I like this post from you, and I have a similar take on Seppel. His responses to Chris feel intentionally dense around the role. If Seppel was town, I'd have expected something like, "well, it's not a tell because I'm doing it now" - but instead he accepted the tell as fact unquestioned and then gave a reason why it wasn't applicable here in relation to the role he thought Chris was claiming despite him having to be pretty blind to what else Chris could have meant around that point. But, earlier, he'd said that he wanted Chris to claim toward the end of the mass claim that he was pushing, prior to the discussion that led him to saying Chris was claiming town Rolecop, so even though he's saying he's calling Chris Town because of claim, his talk earlier was indicating a town read on Chris prior to that because of the order he wanted his claim... so the gist was still there. Now that he's figured out what Chris meant, he's trying to divert him back to other players. Don't like it - the whole thing feels like he's trying to dance around Chris.
@whoever asked: I said it in response to the aol log
This feels like Wheat thinks he stepped his foot in it and the "whoever asked" part feels like it's intentionally trying to appear not to care about details to me.
------------
Top three scum reads are Id Ego, Seppel and Scarlet/Wheat. Id's actually the strongest read of the three because of the crocodile faces, but the Seppel wagon is good too.
I like this post from you, and I have a similar take on Seppel. His responses to Chris feel intentionally dense around the role. If Seppel was town, I'd have expected something like, "well, it's not a tell because I'm doing it now" - but instead he accepted the tell as fact unquestioned and then gave a reason why it wasn't applicable here in relation to the role he thought Chris was claiming despite him having to be pretty blind to what else Chris could have meant around that point. But, earlier, he'd said that he wanted Chris to claim toward the end of the mass claim that he was pushing, prior to the discussion that led him to saying Chris was claiming town Rolecop, so even though he's saying he's calling Chris Town because of claim, his talk earlier was indicating a town read on Chris prior to that because of the order he wanted his claim... so the gist was still there. Now that he's figured out what Chris meant, he's trying to divert him back to other players. Don't like it - the whole thing feels like he's trying to dance around Chris.
/Barn
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Can someone tell me if seppel is prone to misunderstanding/misreading posts or reasoning?
I'd hoped fir something a little more from nacho's first real post in the game. Mostly I'd hoped that he'd pick up on a more subtle read or push at something even if he had little time.
ISO I I - you're misreading.
DC - it definitely shouldn't give you the creeps, but I'd be interested in why you think that.
Mister DC, can you think of some reason why I should have acknowledged Mister Id's vote? ^^ Because I certainly can not. I simply assumed that it was due to the very verbose and elegant posting style that I adopt as Miss Blue, which I can understand may come across as natural, but is ultimately something I expect to be voted for, here and there. Additionally, if I am spending time defending myself against rubbish, then that is less time I have to spend searching for mafia! Finally, there is always the chance that he was attempting to bait me into saying something incriminating or oversefensive if he did not genuinely have a non-town read on me, and I do not like to give my enemies the means with which to disrupt my hunt.
The more concuse version, of course, is that the benefits of not acknowledging it at that point outweighed the negatives. If he continues to vote me with his next post, then I will be questioning his reasoning, and more than happy to dispel any misconceptions regarding my alignment.
-
Mister Bur, did you read the context in which I said that? Because I do not think you did. ^^
Mister DC, can you think of some reason why I should have acknowledged Mister Id's vote? ^^ Because I certainly can not. I simply assumed that it was due to the very verbose and elegant posting style that I adopt as Miss Blue, which I can understand may come across as natural, but is ultimately something I expect to be voted for, here and there. Additionally, if I am spending time defending myself against rubbish, then that is less time I have to spend searching for mafia! Finally, there is always the chance that he was attempting to bait me into saying something incriminating or oversefensive if he did not genuinely have a non-town read on me, and I do not like to give my enemies the means with which to disrupt my hunt.
The more concuse version, of course, is that the benefits of not acknowledging it at that point outweighed the negatives. If he continues to vote me with his next post, then I will be questioning his reasoning, and more than happy to dispel any misconceptions regarding my alignment.
-
Mister Bur, did you read the context in which I said that? Because I do not think you did. ^^
Scum post btw.
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Unless you're a godly page 1 bluffer, which isn't you're style.
Hey stop that!!! Unless you're referring to...
Final Fantasy Basic from 2006
Or Final Fantasy 7 mafia from 2008
Or Final Fantasy Mafia from 2011
Certainly you're not talking explicitly about some ongoing game.
Duly noted.
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Because I was talking about you as a player not as you a person with a role.
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1 so instead of scary GoT man, now chris is scary monogatari woman
2 when did I claim vanilla?
3 does the other side of the electric color spectrum not understand why I asked
More later
How are you not talking about your role right there???
And... ...why didn't you correct me here???
I didn't correct you then because I was thinking of letting scum think I was a role cop of sorts, but then I realized that didn't really change much so!
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If you could kindly elucidate me, however, I may stand corrected.
Firstly, for everyone who doesn't know the history Iso and I have: we are completely unable to read each other, despite talking outside of MTGS pretty much every day. This is a topic that comes up pretty much every game.
Secondly, for everyone who doesn't know Iso's confidence claim (or whatever it's called): If Iso claims VT in a game where there are more role options than VT and scum, he is confirmed town. If he's scum, he does not claim VT.
I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out Iso's tell. I even made a flowchart once. I've gotten on to some pretty good tracks, but in the end, every single track leads back to this: If I am to figure out Iso's alignment, I need to hear his role claim. I cannot read him naturally, but he's liable to make up bull***** but believable claims when scum. My methods even there aren't perfect either (one game maybe a year ago I ****ed up hard because his claim was the claim that would be the best thing for him to claim as scum, but he actually had it as town. BTW Iso, that's a counter-example where I was town and cared about your role; it's also not the only one by far), but it's better than when I try to read him and inevitably decide that Iso is scum.
So yes, Iso, in every game where I'm town I do want to know your role, and this has been true for a very long time. And I'd say it's almost the opposite; I don't care about your role as much when I'm scum; see, for example, True Name Mafia, where I never questioned that you were town. Given that this game is named Vanillaville, I figured chances were higher that you were vanilla, and Seppel made me start thinking about your confidence claim again.
I remember those games as existing
I don't remember playing in them.
That's really unfortunate
That is so stupid. Nothing else I'm going to gain out of you by talking to you directly, then. Go interact with other players. I'll do the same.
(...I say, realizing it's just the "four" of us talking to each other.) DO you have a passive or active ability? That's all I want to know.
Four people haven't posted.
Four people have exactly one post.
The mod has five posts.
The other 59 posts are us four.
Mod Mafia 8 was the game where I was the Cop and you were the Vig, so I falsecrumbed Bulletproof so that you would not shoot me. Smalltown Swap was the game where you were mafia-aligned, and I was town, and you aggressively pushed me to claim Vanilla so that I would then be "trust tell confirmed", which ended up being a fabricated means of not needing to reconcile your lack of attempt at reading me in that game. Your approach in this game very strongly reminded me of that game, to the point of where I am calling you out for it.
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@iso: I do not doubt those summaries, but that was also how long ago?
There are now 3 people with 1 post.
Reads: Of those who have posted.
Scarlet. Noob Town. Considering this is his first game, his actions make sense.
Blue: Null. I can't really get good tells d1.
Seppel: I have a feeling this one's scum by way of WIFOM. Just saying.
SC: Null.
One of my reads was a joke.
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Explain how my posts make sense
Read last line?
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About two years ago, though they certainly feel more recent than then.
If you can not get good tells on Day 1, then where does your read of Mister Sep stem from? Or do you mean to say that you can not good tells from me on Day 1?
You are really not helping yourself seem like town. ^^
I do not agree, Mister Nacho. ^^ Please tell me why you think so.
Sorry to disappoint, but you'll have to wait another day.
Though there was a tiny part of me that wanted to draw scum just because you told me that you thought I couldn't fool you anymore, and I was like CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. That part was tiny though so sigh of relief still intact.
I'd tell you to please be town but every time I say that you're scum, so!
~~~
I'm having a bit of a dilemma here and I need to reread through the stuff to try to parse through this. I was going to come out swinging because when I researched games here while in the Porn Supremacy, I learned that you guys don't have more than three town roles in a 12-person mini which made someone in Seppel, Blue electric, and Sir Chris a big fat liar. But then I considered that Chris may not have been hinting a power role just saying he thought of claiming his role, which could be vt, but he never clarified that. BUT then that Nec dude also claimed not VT but didn't seem alarmed that seemingly three people, in addition to him, had already claimed when I think it should be setting off alarm bells, and now I just don't know what to think. Anyway, I am not vt and I doubt very very seriously town has five roles, so someone is lying.
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Blue - Why do you suspect Seppel?
I understand why Chris does and that post he made about Seppel's tell and outing it to make sure Seppel died sounded townish to me.
In short, Mister Sep is behaving as I would expect a member of the mafia to, and even if he is town-aligned, I would have no qualms with his death based on his behavior thus far.
I hope that clears it up for you, Miss Tammy.
i got excited too quickly
@whoever asked: I said it in response to the aol log
Mister Sep, I have an active ability.
Mister Hunt, you just finished co-modding a game where you saw a member of the mafia falsecrumb a power role early on. How do you reconcile this with your point of view on Miss Scarlet?
This post stood out to me - id's using the greater than signs for bolding... like you do in Quicktopics. In the sign ups he said he was making his return to mafia this game... so I have a feeling he just recently picked up the habit. It would be unnatural to use those otherwise, especially when this entire board functions on the []
Feels a little bit unsporting... but you gets them how you gets them.
Also, the last line feels like a crutch where he wants to say he hates day 1, but realizes it's a cop out, so calls it out but still says it.
@Blue - why did you ignore that he thought your first post was scummy?
Why was this vote serious at the time?
This feels dense from you.
That joke line and then his subsequent follow up to Wheat makes me feel pretty good about a town Necarg. I didn't see him joking too much in our last game and I didn't get the sense that was really part of his scum game.
Something about that last paragraph is giving me the creeps... but I'm not really sure how to explain why or if I'm sold that it should be, so I'm just going to leave this here for funsies, atm.
I like this post from you, and I have a similar take on Seppel. His responses to Chris feel intentionally dense around the role. If Seppel was town, I'd have expected something like, "well, it's not a tell because I'm doing it now" - but instead he accepted the tell as fact unquestioned and then gave a reason why it wasn't applicable here in relation to the role he thought Chris was claiming despite him having to be pretty blind to what else Chris could have meant around that point. But, earlier, he'd said that he wanted Chris to claim toward the end of the mass claim that he was pushing, prior to the discussion that led him to saying Chris was claiming town Rolecop, so even though he's saying he's calling Chris Town because of claim, his talk earlier was indicating a town read on Chris prior to that because of the order he wanted his claim... so the gist was still there. Now that he's figured out what Chris meant, he's trying to divert him back to other players. Don't like it - the whole thing feels like he's trying to dance around Chris.
This feels like Wheat thinks he stepped his foot in it and the "whoever asked" part feels like it's intentionally trying to appear not to care about details to me.
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Top three scum reads are Id Ego, Seppel and Scarlet/Wheat. Id's actually the strongest read of the three because of the crocodile faces, but the Seppel wagon is good too.
[b]Vote: Seppel[/b]
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Vote: Seppel
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
/Barn
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'd hoped fir something a little more from nacho's first real post in the game. Mostly I'd hoped that he'd pick up on a more subtle read or push at something even if he had little time.
ISO I I - you're misreading.
DC - it definitely shouldn't give you the creeps, but I'd be interested in why you think that.
I had another thought but off to work I go!
No need to vote me; I'm going to straight up claim after I get this info.
The more concuse version, of course, is that the benefits of not acknowledging it at that point outweighed the negatives. If he continues to vote me with his next post, then I will be questioning his reasoning, and more than happy to dispel any misconceptions regarding my alignment.
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Mister Bur, did you read the context in which I said that? Because I do not think you did. ^^
Unvote, Vote: DCIII
You just played a game with Seppel where he used a VERY similar playstyle, and was town. I don't think you really believe he's scum here.
There's also a second reason I'm voting you but I'm going to hold onto that one briefly because I want something else to happen first.
Scum post btw.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player