Then I amend my first statement, your vote is idiotic.
I voted you for exactly why I stated: your opening post was too self-conscious.
"Oh look you are trying to use wit, YOU MUST BE SCUM!!!!"
yeah good luck there.
You say my vote is "dumb, its pointless, it carries no weight...", and yet people /barned it.
barned it without actually adding anything to it, barned it in the scummiest way possible, barned it over a single RVS joke post.
And Scarbo just called it a scum post as well in his catchup.
OMG SCARBO CALLED ME SCUM (who the f is scarbo anyways? why does he suddenly carry the weight of mafia jesus?)
Do you believe that there's other reasoning for wanting to vote you for that post?
Honestly? From you personally? I would think maybe a bit of bias over an ongoing game, not holding against you if so but i am assuming thats the case which is why i was more understanding when dealing with the entirety of this crap wagon.
Or do you think all those votes come from scum?
I doubt all of those in the wagon are scum, dumb town maybe but surely you must agree scumm is also there.
Your whole defense doesn't give me any town vibe. You basically omgus your whole wagon.
Hmmm the entire wagon is pretty much an "OMGUS YOU ARE SCUM FOR BEING SELF-CONCIOUS!", thats it, there is literally NOTHING of substance to the wagon.
"I like that you know im gonna go all ballistic because of the insanity surrounding my wagon, i mean its pretty much BS and if I do get lynched it would be the most idiotic thing ever because it would be because i made 1 RVS post (its hilarious that i have to write RVS so much for this *****)." is not a town response to pressure.
Hmmm, I am the one responding that way, I am Town, therefore it IS a town response. Maybe it is not a response you like but that doesnt change the alignment of the player making the response.
You're upset that you're wagoned over an RVS post, which makes sense as both alignments.
So you admit my response makes sense as both Town or Scum yet earlier state it is not a town mindset... yeah... I hope you see the problem.
But you're overly afraid of getting lynched over this.
Wut? I have responded by basically laughing my ass off at the shear (sheer?) stupidity of this wagon... if anything I would have understood if you had said im am too RELAXED over the idea of being lynched...
That is scum mindset.
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
]townie would know that they can easily recover from an RVS wagon by just being town and finding scum.
Except 'being town' requires you to address the posts against you, i did so, yet that is me being scared over being lynched... so being townie makes me scum... awesome.
As for looking for scum, how about when im trying to engage the people ***** barning the wagon? isn't that trying to hunt scum? oh wait let me guess, it is not how you would do it therefore i must be scum. Noted.
Scum would worry about getting lynched over one post.
So you are saying town would never react with apprehension over having a sudden wagon overnight over nothing?
You forgetting to vote Hans adds to the problem:
Ok fine ill concede that is was a lapse on my part, my response is it was a lapse, sue me.
you're too busy with wanting to get these votes off you and forget to do the town thing and vote someone.
Yeah no, i would appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth. What i am concerned about is addressing this crap wagon and try to identify who jumped into it being dumb town, who jumped into it trying to fish out scum, and who jumped into it being scum.
But hey i get it, it is not how YOU scumhunt, therefore it must be a Scum mindset.
I like how hans did not address any of my complains regarding him, instead he simply addressed the fact i had forgotten to place a vote, he shows no real interest in defending against all of the accusations lobbied against him.
Do you genuinly like that or are you being sarcastic?
So i cannot find humor about something now? Is the context of the post and tone of it not clear?
Rhand ->
1 - Sepiriel had pretty much the reaction I expected him to have. I don't think you realise how stressful it is to log on in the morning, and see there's a wagon on you based on a single *****ty joke and a lot of high-fiving between your wagoners. You make a list of things Sep did wrong, like OMGUSing his entire wagon or failing to vote Hansanator, and you are right about these being wrong… except, this whole situation is pretty irrational (this is a wagon based entirely on a single *****ty joke), and as a result I do not expect anyone to react rationally to it unless they know the wagon is actually valid. Ergo, Sep's emotivity and apparently non-ideal response actually is the ideal townie response, when put back in context.
I appreciate the fact that at least someone is being open minded to the tone and context of my reaction.
1. So the fact that she was talking about the lynch as if it was about to happen doesn't bother you at all?
Errr... when did i do that? I called the wagon crap and felt Zero real pressure over it, you are making it sound like i was running around screaming about me getting lynched.
This is an outright lie and misrepresentation of facts.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Sepiriel ->
I have to agree with Rhand on one point: whatever state you may be in when writing your posts, they come off as anything but relaxed.
Additionally, either my interpretation of the tone and context of your reaction was right (which I am led to believe by your comment after quoting me), or you were laughing at the insanity going on. A relaxed state implies an easier time thinking rationally, which would directly contradict my interpretation. Note: nervous laughter does not count as being relaxed.
I think i see the problem here.
I am literally taking this as a game, something that has no bearing in my life or to be honest any importance at all, I am approaching it as a simple "the most enjoyment i can get for the longest time i can get".
Winning would be great but Im playing more along the moment than the overall end result.
Whereas you guys are trying to read me as a town/scum whose mentality is first and foremost to win the game.
Which is why you guys are reading "nervousness" where I am saying "hilarity", or why you guys are saying im coming of as anything but relaxed/amused.
Yeah this post is just me rambling about myself, not my Game self but my RL self... i'll go cry in a corner now (thats a joke btw, before someone goes shouting self-deprecation is a scum tell or something XD)
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Rhand seems way more twitchy than I remember him. AI wisely made no response to my post, but Rhand popped up with "no his reaction looks town!!" before AI even had a chance to say anything. Why get involved, Rhand?
Sepiriel looks really desperate already and the game has just begun. Especially the "you have no idea how I play, we've never played together before" line is just really weak. Immediately attacking basically everyone who RVS voted you carries more than a hint of panic. But he's not the only one to be playing the meta card this early - I think I saw someone earlier post something like "that's not how I react as town" which of course is as meaningful as the sound of a rusty gate creaking in the wind.
@Sep: the only thing I'm surprised about is that you apparently can't see why people were voting for you. You did one of the big "red flag" things someone can do in the early RVS game, which is self-vote. I thought by this point everyone knew that. I knew you were going to get votes for it the minute I read it. Are you really saying you've never heard of this? How long have you been playing? It's a long time, right? And then there is a certain sub-set of people who will auto-jump on the first person to get any number of votes just to "make something happen."
I'm a little surprised Proph didn't jump on as well. I thought that was one of the very things he looks for in the early RVS stages. Instead he says this:
Quote from Proph »
1. Why do you want to see a speed-lynch on Sepiriel? We're barely out of RVS.
2. Why did you just mindlessly hop on the Sepiriel wagon? I know you're a better player than to cite "because everyone else is doing it".
This is like the opposite of what I remember from last game. Why the change in behavior? There was something else I can't remember at the moment also.
I think I agree with ZDS mostly about Sep though.
I don't think you realise how stressful it is to log on in the morning, and see there's a wagon on you based on a single *****ty joke and a lot of high-fiving between your wagoners.
I would probably be blowing a gasket if that happened to me.
Vote: Proph
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Please explain what you are doing with each of the three portions of this post.
I think I know, and if I'm right I doubt it's scum behaviour.
Of course, since I don't know if I'm right, I'll let him answer you on his own.
If you really mean to let him answer on his own, then why are you even making this post? It seems like you're immediately trying to downplay the question AI asked before hans has even rolled around to seeing it (in actuality he did see it and answer it before you even posted, but the posts were only 3 minutes apart and I doubt you knew hans had already posted.)
You should give those reasons why Proph is scum now instead of later (or never).
It's a pretty tenuous observation that I made, and I wasn't intending to persuade anyone with it. You'll probably laugh at me if I tell you.
You wrote the same post twice but in the second one there's been more added, so you reworked what you were originally saying. This suggests the response is more "crafted" than authentic. You also are trying to downplay your involvement with voting Sepiriel - of course it's a tenuous observation, the game was 20 posts old. Just spit it out and stand by your reads if you actually have them.
Sepiriel looks really desperate already and the game has just begun. Especially the "you have no idea how I play, we've never played together before" line is just really weak. Immediately attacking basically everyone who RVS voted you carries more than a hint of panic. But he's not the only one to be playing the meta card this early - I think I saw someone earlier post something like "that's not how I react as town" which of course is as meaningful as the sound of a rusty gate creaking in the wind.
At this point all i can do is i honestly have no ****s to give if this is how people are going to address this.
Sorry but my idea of fun is apparently not what you guys consider the "norm".
Get me to claim range so i can claim you guys will rage and say its obv. scum i can get lynched and then i can laugh my ass off when you are proven wrong, because clearly you aren't even willing to listen. (I'm using the plural You, in case that was not clear.)
@Sep: the only thing I'm surprised about is that you apparently can't see why people were voting for you.
I am honestly baffled by the idiocy, yes.
You did one of the big "red flag" things someone can do in the early RVS game, which is self-vote. I thought by this point everyone knew that.
I know self voting was frowned upon by a subset of "this is just so bad you must be scum" of the player base, i had no idea it had become such an ingrained part of the game since my last game here.
I knew you were going to get votes for it the minute I read it.
I wouldn't have been surprised to get one or two votes, getting an entire wagon going and then people going all "huff puff you are obvious scum, or a stupid bad player huff puff" is a little baffling, this is not the environment i last played on clearly.
Are you really saying you've never heard of this?
Nope i had never heard Self-Voting == Scum, i had heard of "self-voting can mean scum when examined later on and juxtaposed with behavioral analysis" but that culture is apparently long dead here.
How long have you been playing? It's a long time, right?
I first started about 5 years ago, played a few (i think a grand total of maybe 10 games?) within 2 years then went on a bit of hiatus from Mafia (and the site in general) for about 3 years, and have only recently returned, in the absence i had zero contact with the game of Mafia.
And then there is a certain sub-set of people who will auto-jump on the first person to get any number of votes just to "make something happen."
This i can understand, which is what i was trying to analyze, but then again doing that is scum mindset by what i have been told.
I think I agree with ZDS mostly about Sep though.
Awesome i suppose.
I don't think you realise how stressful it is to log on in the morning, and see there's a wagon on you based on a single *****ty joke and a lot of high-fiving between your wagoners.
I would probably be blowing a gasket if that happened to me.
I suppose our response to stress and or bewilderment is just too different, then again my mindset going into the game appears to be too unorthodox compared to what you guys are used to and/or expecting... so once more my favorite emoticon
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Sepiriel looks really desperate already and the game has just begun. Especially the "you have no idea how I play, we've never played together before" line is just really weak. Immediately attacking basically everyone who RVS voted you carries more than a hint of panic. But he's not the only one to be playing the meta card this early - I think I saw someone earlier post something like "that's not how I react as town" which of course is as meaningful as the sound of a rusty gate creaking in the wind.
^^
Sepiriel came back in, exploded in self-defense by calling [i]literally[/i] everyone that was voting him "stupid" or "idiotic", and deemed EVERY SINGLE ONE voting him as scum.
That's play that could honestly come from town or scum. Either way, it's a bad player, but I'm not so sure about his alignment anymore - I've seen this behaviour from both new scum and new town, and it's probably weighed about 70% in town's favor if I'm just going off memory.
On another note: ZDS already changing his reasons for voting me when corrected the first time.
3 - I find his accusations very shallow, even for this stage of the game. He strikes me as more interested in muddying up as many players as he can, than in finding scum.
3. I got curious with your "muddying up as many players as he can" statement and Iso'd Karn. I find a grand total of 3 accusations in his posts: /barning me on Sepi; calling out Proph on how he talked to you and another accusation vs Proph.
3 - Again, these were shallow accusations, even for this stage of the game.
Starts out saying I'm trying to "muddy up as many players as [I] can."
Gets promptly and accurately corrected by Rhand.
Falls back to saying that the attempts were still "shallow" even though his main point was destroyed.
I'm quite certain he's just trying to craft up reasons to vote me since I'm already onto him and Proph and he sees me as a threat.
Sepiriel came back in, exploded in self-defense by calling literally everyone that was voting him "stupid" or "idiotic", and deemed EVERY SINGLE ONE voting him as scum.
That's play that could honestly come from town or scum. Either way, it's a bad player, but I'm not so sure about his alignment anymore - I've seen this behaviour from both new scum and new town, and it's probably weighed about 70% in town's favor if I'm just going off memory.
You guys have a problem with reading apparently.
And end of the day you simply go "Oh hei fencesit!, Imma move mah vote to ZDS"
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Sepiriel came back in, exploded in self-defense by calling literally everyone that was voting him "stupid" or "idiotic", and deemed EVERY SINGLE ONE voting him as scum.
That's play that could honestly come from town or scum. Either way, it's a bad player, but I'm not so sure about his alignment anymore - I've seen this behaviour from both new scum and new town, and it's probably weighed about 70% in town's favor if I'm just going off memory.
You guys have a problem with reading apparently.
And end of the day you simply go "Oh hei fencesit!, Imma move mah vote to ZDS"
So who is not included as scum that was voting you?
And @point 2: When results are inconclusive, do you like to pretend you know the answer anyway? I'm not going to put up a fake front when your alignment could go either way. And I have two other leads that I'm ready to pursue.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
I missed this gem. This is a Zindabad scum post.
Vote Zindabad
can you dig up a game that supports this? I don't think I've played with Zindabad before, let alone remember his scum/town meta
@Proph: You referenced hans' playstyle earlier. Again, I have no clue how hans plays, but I'd like to see evidence that it's "like a crackhead," because that's what I'm seeing here.
If memory serves, Rhand tunnels, and when Rhand tunnels, Rhand tunnels hard. I feel like that's what I'm seeing here re:sep. Is Sepiel the same as Seppel? Because I haven't played mafia on MTGS for quite some time here, and these are things I need to know.
Ok, so Sepiriel and Rhand are currently playing in another game together. I, personally, know that playing in multiple games with the same person simultaneously can influence my reads. Are any of the other players in this game currently involved in ongoing games with each other? (that doesn't count as discussing an ongoing game, does it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't)
why do you come into the game fretting over mass guild claiming without laying down a vote? doesn't sound like you're interested in a mass claim but more what everyone else thinks about it.
Pay the entwine cost.
[quote from="ZeDorkSlipeur »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/598429-gatecrash-day-one-murder-investigation?comment=106"]Rhand ->
1 - Sepiriel had pretty much the reaction I expected him to have. I don't think you realise how stressful it is to log on in the morning, and see there's a wagon on you based on a single *****ty joke and a lot of high-fiving between your wagoners. You make a list of things Sep did wrong, like OMGUSing his entire wagon or failing to vote Hansanator, and you are right about these being wrong… except, this whole situation is pretty irrational (this is a wagon based entirely on a single *****ty joke), and as a result I do not expect anyone to react rationally to it unless they know the wagon is actually valid. Ergo, Sep's emotivity and apparently non-ideal response actually is the ideal townie response, when put back in context.
This might be a scum ZDS. Or perhaps I'm just misreading you initially again.
Addressing the content RE: Sepiriel, I don't think viewing the wagon rationale as mildly ridiculous is unexpected regardless of alignment. Scum think weak cases on them are silly all the time. So do townies, but they do it subtly different ways. More pertinently, I haven't seen anything from him that does stylistically strikes me as an "ideal townie response" on initial read. It's been more of a skim though.
Ok, so Sepiriel and Rhand are currently playing in another game together. I, personally, know that playing in multiple games with the same person simultaneously can influence my reads. Are any of the other players in this game currently involved in ongoing games with each other? (that doesn't count as discussing an ongoing game, does it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't)
Please don't pursue this line of thought any further. Discussion of other ongoing games is not allowed.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Sepiriel came back in, exploded in self-defense by calling literally everyone that was voting him "stupid" or "idiotic", and deemed EVERY SINGLE ONE voting him as scum.
That's play that could honestly come from town or scum. Either way, it's a bad player, but I'm not so sure about his alignment anymore - I've seen this behaviour from both new scum and new town, and it's probably weighed about 70% in town's favor if I'm just going off memory.
You guys have a problem with reading apparently.
And end of the day you simply go "Oh hei fencesit!, Imma move mah vote to ZDS"
So who is not included as scum that was voting you?
From the original wagon (before my reply), I dont have Hawk as scum, following that scarbo made a dumb post but i havent decided how to place him because he hasnt replied to my reply yet.
And @point 2: When results are inconclusive, do you like to pretend you know the answer anyway? I'm not going to put up a fake front when your alignment could go either way. And I have two other leads that I'm ready to pursue.
funny because your initial barn was with inconclusive results, hell everything we up until the point of a lynch is based on inconclusive results...
If memory serves, Rhand tunnels, and when Rhand tunnels, Rhand tunnels hard. I feel like that's what I'm seeing here re:sep. Is Sepiel the same as Seppel? Because I haven't played mafia on MTGS for quite some time here, and these are things I need to know.
Nope, not Seppel, he is currently in the replacements list, im my own self, definitely not a Seppel gimmick, yeah guys, definitely not.
Ok, so Sepiriel and Rhand are currently playing in another game together. I, personally, know that playing in multiple games with the same person simultaneously can influence my reads. Are any of the other players in this game currently involved in ongoing games with each other? (that doesn't count as discussing an ongoing game, does it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't)
The answer is yes, or was it 42? i always get that confused.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
With regards to "RVS self vote is a scum tell": I've definitely seen that quoted as a rule in the past, and I can definitely see the reasoning behind it.
I am literally taking this as a game, something that has no bearing in my life or to be honest any importance at all, I am approaching it as a simple "the most enjoyment i can get for the longest time i can get".
Winning would be great but Im playing more along the moment than the overall end result.
Whereas you guys are trying to read me as a town/scum whose mentality is first and foremost to win the game.
This is not a pro-town mindset. If you are town, you should be trying to win the game for the town. Instead you describe yourself as wanting to remain in the game for as long as possible, which sounds to me like you just want to avoid getting lynched. You know who spend the Day phase trying not to get lynched? scum. Vote Sepiriel
I am literally taking this as a game, something that has no bearing in my life or to be honest any importance at all, I am approaching it as a simple "the most enjoyment i can get for the longest time i can get".
I can't speak for Rhand, but that's not my approach. I like to think of mafia players as people who happen to be playing a game, rather than game players who happen to be people. Hence why I refuse to judge a player exclusively by whether their actions are or are not "the correct town play" (which, besides, is a very abstract and debatable concept).
I maintain that you came out as stressed in your posts, and that my entire read of your reaction to your wagon came from this interpretation. So if you tell me my interpretation was wrong, then I'm not sure what I should think of you reacted to your wagon (negatively, probably). Still, the armchair psychologist in me wants to believe you were laughing in front of your computer screen as a way to become relaxed, not because you were already relaxed. Otherwise there are too many things that don't make sense (I mostly agree with Rhand that your reaction to your wagon was suboptimal, in a contextless "was this the correct town play?" kind of way).
I get what you are trying to say here, i can say your thinking is correct even if the reasoning is not exactly what i agree with, hooray for the subjectiveness of psychology i suppose
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
@Sep: You've missed the point, and didn't answer the question. My read on you is far less clear after your reaction, and I have 2 strong leads. If you were in this situation, would you pretend like the read was clear anyway?
@zds: I knew you were going to call it omgus, even though I was talking about you pages before you voted me
What do you find shallow about my previous accusations? Why do they stand out to you from other people's accusations from the same part of the game?
I exerted my right to have an opinion on the matter, and figured that if I waited to say I have an opinion, said opinion could have ultimately looked like a barn. I prefer to prevent that kind of confusion than pray it doesn't happen.
Please share that opinion about what hansanator was doing now, then, if you would.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
I missed this gem. This is a Zindabad scum post.
Vote Zindabad
can you dig up a game that supports this? I don't think I've played with Zindabad before, let alone remember his scum/town meta
@Proph: elaborate on why you think Sepi's answer "has a lot of natural surprise and confusion" and why that makes him town please.
Sepiriel's anger is unforced and he's clearly confused. It's hard to fake confusion. I also think his anger is very genuine - he's displaying a lot of classic "town under pressure" tells. Examples:
Quote from Sepiriel »
Meanwhile the person the wagon is against is someone who you have no prior experience with and is being cased due to ONE RVS POST!!! (unless you did a name change to which i would like to ask your prior name).
Quote from Sepiriel »
I like that you know im gonna go all ballistic because of the insanity surrounding my wagon, i mean its pretty much BS and if I do get lynched it would be the most idiotic thing ever because it would be because i made 1 RVS post (its hilarious that i have to write RVS so much for this *****).
Quote from Sepiriel »
Also fun to see him suddenly move away from me with absolutely no reasoning or anything... are you now trying to be a revel or something? maybe a hipster because voting me is so mainstream now?
I agree with ZDS's empathy-interpretation of Sepiriel's posts.
Quote from Rhand »
Something I've been wanting to ask you, but I needed Sepi to react first: You do put a lot of stock in RVS tells, right? I know there's only a few of us who do and I seem to remember you're one of them. Why didn't you chime in on Sepi's opening post when she was getting heat for it?
I did indeed notice it, but I wanted to take a different approach to RVS this game in contrast to my previous game, Iji. In Iji I ended RVS very early and the person who I attacked based on RVS was not scum. In addition, I got quite a lot of flak and a wagon built on me early for my aggressive approach. I wanted to not overextend myself this game.
Quote from AE »
I missed this gem. This is a Zindabad scum post.
Vote Zindabad
Why?
Quote from Vishamon »
@Proph: You referenced hans' playstyle earlier. Again, I have no clue how hans plays, but I'd like to see evidence that it's "like a crackhead," because that's what I'm seeing here.
Compare Battle Factory Mafia (town) and Celestial Mafia (scum). In Battle Factory he's just proposing terrible plans and that's why he got lynched on Day 1. In Celestial he's holding the cards to his chest and playing a lot more "safe".
@Azrael: Can you please explain why you think Axelrod and Rhand are town, as well as you why you think ZDS is scum? You're just tossing out reads left and right and I'm having trouble following your thought progression. I feel a bit foolish asking this but it's necessary.
----
At the moment, I'm feeling kind of lost. I have two fairly decent town reads (hans and Sepiriel) but I literally do not have any scum reads yet, and I noted down in my notes QT "Well I'm kind of flailing around aimlessly right now". I thought about it a bit more and I feel like I'm like Megiddo in Amistarian Mafia 3 - with all of these big names I feel like I'm "out of my league". I guess I'll try to reread and provide thoughts on other players, but the game is still very young. My only lead (Sir Karn) went nowhere and I feel like I need to look at the game from a fresh perspective.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
I missed this gem. This is a Zindabad scum post.
Vote Zindabad
can you dig up a game that supports this? I don't think I've played with Zindabad before, let alone remember his scum/town meta
I am literally taking this as a game, something that has no bearing in my life or to be honest any importance at all, I am approaching it as a simple "the most enjoyment i can get for the longest time i can get".
Winning would be great but Im playing more along the moment than the overall end result.
Whereas you guys are trying to read me as a town/scum whose mentality is first and foremost to win the game.
This is not a pro-town mindset. If you are town, you should be trying to win the game for the town. Instead you describe yourself as wanting to remain in the game for as long as possible, which sounds to me like you just want to avoid getting lynched. You know who spend the Day phase trying not to get lynched? scum. Vote Sepiriel
I'm trying to enjoy the game for as long as possible... im not going to deny that, I am also not going to invest myself to the degree that you guys are apparently wanting me to invest just to satisfy YOUR needs, that is not why im playing.
I honestly give a rats ass if i get lynched now, its a dumb wagon based on dumb reasoning and a ingrained bias that revolves around having no shred of openmindedness.
I think im still at 6-7 votes but just in case: /mod Votecount pls?
@Sep: You've missed the point, and didn't answer the question. My read on you is far less clear after your reaction, and I have 2 strong leads. If you were in this situation, would you pretend like the read was clear anyway?
I wouldnt have joined such a wagon to begin with so i think the point is moot, but i will concede i will always place a vote where i think my case is strongest yes.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Okay so as far as I can tell, Sepiriel's last completed town game was Avatar the Last Airbender mafia way back in 2012 (a game Sepiriel replaced into). I'm currently skimming through to see if this "I'm not playing to win" mentality is supported there, but that's a good three years ago, so I'm not placing too much stock in it.
Okay so as far as I can tell, Sepiriel's last completed town game was Avatar the Last Airbender mafia way back in 2012 (a game Sepiriel replaced into). I'm currently skimming through to see if this "I'm not playing to win" mentality is supported there, but that's a good three years ago, so I'm not placing too much stock in it.
I can save you the time nd tell you right now i was way more invested in the game back then than I am now, although i feel that you can see parallels (ie. lighter versions of this type of attitude) as early as Evangelion Mafia.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
This is not a pro-town mindset. If you are town, you should be trying to win the game for the town. Instead you describe yourself as wanting to remain in the game for as long as possible, which sounds to me like you just want to avoid getting lynched. You know who spend the Day phase trying not to get lynched? scum. Vote Sepiriel
Vote Vishamon. Overreaching, and worded like a scum.
@Azrael: Can you please explain why you think Axelrod and Rhand are town, as well as you why you think ZDS is scum? You're just tossing out reads left and right and I'm having trouble following your thought progression. I feel a bit foolish asking this but it's necessary.
Not at all. Also, +town you.
Axelrod and Rhand are both posting naturally, forming original thoughts in an organic-seeming way. Same for you, plus natural curiosity. ZDS post that I quoted bothered me bc it's a post that ordinarily comes complete with some kind of alignment read, but didn't. However, I seem to recall that being a hallmark of his posting style that almost had me mislynch him in the last game we played, until he started showing some alternative townie tells.
EBWOP: Also i want to make something clear my mentality is "Enjoy the game and have as much fun as i can", while i understand what you mean by "play to win" the way you are phrasing things sounds more like you think i dont want to win at all which is a bit untruthful.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
nah just leave it. wouod you destroy the copies of a fsmous eork of srt just because they are duplica? no. so your dou le post stands ataint time just like the pyramids.
@whoever asked why I think a no lynch is optimal - Sorry, I missed it earlier. Basically, I am of the opinion that we are more likely to mislynch on D1, which means that a no lynch would give us more time to sort out our stuff and hunt scum for real.
While the town is slightly more likely to mislynch than lynch correctly on D1, NL is not as useful for the purposes of teasing out interactions, including who pushed for a lynch and for what reasons. A D1 that ends with NL, barring some kind of role-related interaction, is a wasted Day.
At first I agreed with Rhand re: Sepiriel's flailing, but ZDS's counterargument is also persuasive. Personally, I think Sepiriel's AtE is more indicative of an unrefined playstyle than proof of his townishness, but at this point I am willing to leave him alone for now.
I also want to hear what scarbo and Archmage Eternal claim to have on zindabad as I always read him as scum. Same for ZDS re: Sir Karn.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
Scum Zindabad will not commit, but will throw mud in hopes the town will run with it. He thinks he detected something but does not give any details. In fact there was no panick from AI. He was in favor of a guild claim and also said he was not Gruul
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
I missed this gem. This is a Zindabad scum post.
Vote Zindabad
can you dig up a game that supports this? I don't think I've played with Zindabad before, let alone remember his scum/town meta.
This is not a pro-town mindset. If you are town, you should be trying to win the game for the town. Instead you describe yourself as wanting to remain in the game for as long as possible, which sounds to me like you just want to avoid getting lynched. You know who spend the Day phase trying not to get lynched? scum. Vote Sepiriel
Vote Vishamon. Overreaching, and worded like a scum.
Axelrod and Rhand are both posting naturally, forming original thoughts in an organic-seeming way. Same for you, plus natural curiosity. ZDS post that I quoted bothered me bc it's a post that ordinarily comes complete with some kind of alignment read, but didn't. However, I seem to recall that being a hallmark of his posting style that almost had me mislynch him in the last game we played, until he started showing some alternative townie tells.
I looked at Rhand's posts and can see where you would get that conclusion (not townreading him yet because generally I like my town reads to be more accurate than my scum reads, and would rather pick the low-hanging fruit here first), but why Axelrod? His first few posts are about mechanics before he places a pretty poor vote on me.
And doesn't ZDS's post come with an alignment read?
Quote from Az »
Ergo, Sep's emotivity and apparently non-ideal response actually is the ideal townie response, when put back in context.
--
Quote from AI »
Currently have a town read on Proph.
Reasoning? I was actually expecting to be pressured for my "lol I don't have anything and I'm wrong" response, so I'm a bit surprised by this.
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Quote from hawk »
I'm very much looking forward to this because I feel the exact opposite.
Can you answer my question?
--
I want zindabad to respond to AI but if I remember, zindabad sort of has a defensive playstyle early game and strong analysis late game, which is why I'm adopting more of a "wait and see" approach right now.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch the Ghost Council Day 1, since we literally have no idea what will happen and once again I'm leery on mechanics. My theory is that it's someone from the replacement list, though this is just pure speculation at this point.
Where is Taredas? Would love to see him post. I hope he's town since we work well together.
Reasoning? I was actually expecting to be pressured for my "lol I don't have anything and I'm wrong" response, so I'm a bit surprised by this.
Unless you've stepped up your scum game significantly, you are not confident enough to post that sort of thing as scum without having some sort of direction for followup.
Then I amend my first statement, your vote is idiotic.
For someone who says she's here for having fun, you really have a weird vocabulary. Do you believe using words like 'idiotic' is fun?
"Oh look you are trying to use wit, YOU MUST BE SCUM!!!!"
yeah good luck there.
Nope, not what I accused you of. “using wit” and “being self-conscious” isn't the same thing.
barned it without actually adding anything to it, barned it in the scummiest way possible, barned it over a single RVS joke post.
Here you ARE calling all of them scum, which is not what you answered Karn when he asked you if you thought all of the voters were scum.
OMG SCARBO CALLED ME SCUM (who the f is scarbo anyways? why does he suddenly carry the weight of mafia jesus?)
What does Scarbo's reputation have to do with anything?
Honestly? From you personally? I would think maybe a bit of bias over an ongoing game, not holding against you if so but i am assuming thats the case which is why i was more understanding when dealing with the entirety of this crap wagon.
Don't reference ongoing games please. I hold no grudges just fyi.
I doubt all of those in the wagon are scum, dumb town maybe but surely you must agree scumm is also there.
I don't agree. You were the only valid person to vote for when RVS broke. This can very well be an all-town wagon.
But... What is it? Are all votes on you scummy or are they not?
Hmmm the entire wagon is pretty much an "OMGUS YOU ARE SCUM FOR BEING SELF-CONCIOUS!", thats it, there is literally NOTHING of substance to the wagon.
You played way before I started playing. Was self-awareness not a tell back then?
"I like that you know im gonna go all ballistic because of the insanity surrounding my wagon, i mean its pretty much BS and if I do get lynched it would be the most idiotic thing ever because it would be because i made 1 RVS post (its hilarious that i have to write RVS so much for this *****)." is not a town response to pressure.
Hmmm, I am the one responding that way, I am Town, therefore it IS a town response. Maybe it is not a response you like but that doesnt change the alignment of the player making the response.
You're upset that you're wagoned over an RVS post, which makes sense as both alignments.
So you admit my response makes sense as both Town or Scum yet earlier state it is not a town mindset... yeah... I hope you see the problem.
But you're overly afraid of getting lynched over this.
Wut? I have responded by basically laughing my ass off at the shear (sheer?) stupidity of this wagon... if anything I would have understood if you had said im am too RELAXED over the idea of being lynched...
That is scum mindset.
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
]townie would know that they can easily recover from an RVS wagon by just being town and finding scum.
Except 'being town' requires you to address the posts against you, i did so, yet that is me being scared over being lynched... so being townie makes me scum... awesome.
I don't like how you split this whole part up in pieces and then give answers as though the previous part was never written. I am talking about the statement you made where you say “if I do get lynched”. You ARE worried about your lynch. You wrote it down.
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
I didn't read your post as relaxed. And neither is this post. You're writing in all caps.
I think you're lying about your mindset, make us believe it's jokingly written to hide your real mindset.
As for looking for scum, how about when im trying to engage the people ***** barning the wagon? isn't that trying to hunt scum? oh wait let me guess, it is not how you would do it therefore i must be scum. Noted.
Of all the people on your wagon, you chose Hans. Do you honestly believe Hans is scum with the way he approached that?
Yeah no, i would appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth. What i am concerned about is addressing this crap wagon and try to identify who jumped into it being dumb town, who jumped into it trying to fish out scum, and who jumped into it being scum.
But hey i get it, it is not how YOU scumhunt, therefore it must be a Scum mindset.
Ehm who's putting words in whose mouth now?
And you aren't adressing the wagon. You picked on one person and smear the rest.
I like how hans did not address any of my complains regarding him, instead he simply addressed the fact i had forgotten to place a vote, he shows no real interest in defending against all of the accusations lobbied against him.
Do you genuinly like that or are you being sarcastic?
So i cannot find humor about something now? Is the context of the post and tone of it not clear?
I would agree with the post if it were NOT sarcastic. It's town mindset to ignore bad accusations and point out scummy behavior instead. What you describe is Hans's town mindset and use sarcasm to make it look scummy.
I appreciate the fact that at least someone is being open minded to the tone and context of my reaction.
If you really read what I wrote instead of jumping all over me, you would see that I have an open mind too.
1. So the fact that she was talking about the lynch as if it was about to happen doesn't bother you at all?
Errr... when did i do that? I called the wagon crap and felt Zero real pressure over it, you are making it sound like i was running around screaming about me getting lynched.
This is an outright lie and misrepresentation of facts.
So you accuse me of lies now? The biggest part of my case was based on you talking about getting lynched. It's the part you chopped up in pieces and handwaved away.
Tell me, Sepi, do you think I am scum?
Rhand seems way more twitchy than I remember him. AI wisely made no response to my post, but Rhand popped up with "no his reaction looks town!!" before AI even had a chance to say anything. Why get involved, Rhand?
Eh? You almost literally asked for input on that. Someone accused you of trying to find someone to do the work for you.
Nope i had never heard Self-Voting == Scum, i had heard of "self-voting can mean scum when examined later on and juxtaposed with behavioral analysis" but that culture is apparently long dead here.
So you really believe that voting the first player that does something like that to get reactions and analyse those reactions is NOT the way to go?
Notice that your wagon lost votes after your reactions. People ARE reading them and reassessing.
====
/barn Karn on ZDS. His reasoning for his Karn vote is weak and he doesn't want to acknowledge that, downplaying his own reasoning even more to be able to keep his vote on.
Addressing the content RE: Sepiriel, I don't think viewing the wagon rationale as mildly ridiculous is unexpected regardless of alignment. Scum think weak cases on them are silly all the time. So do townies, but they do it subtly different ways. More pertinently, I haven't seen anything from him that does stylistically strikes me as an "ideal townie response" on initial read. It's been more of a skim though.
Can you do me a favor and really analyse Sep's responses? I'm not sure if I'm tunelling, but they don't seem to come from town imo.
I did indeed notice it, but I wanted to take a different approach to RVS this game in contrast to my previous game, Iji. In Iji I ended RVS very early and the person who I attacked based on RVS was not scum. In addition, I got quite a lot of flak and a wagon built on me early for my aggressive approach. I wanted to not overextend myself this game.
Ew. You're basicly saying that you are consciously avoiding your own meta.
And why would you get that flak if I'm the one being vocal about the RVS thing?
I honestly give a rats ass if i get lynched now, its a dumb wagon based on dumb reasoning and a ingrained bias that revolves around having no shred of openmindedness.
I think im still at 6-7 votes but just in case: /mod Votecount pls?
Here you do it again. You say you're not worried about getting lynched but at the same time you ask a votecount while you're still far away from a lynch.
You ARE worried. And self-conscious. You talk about yourself all the time.
@Rhand I don't really like how quickly you backed off proph
@Sepiriel the ratio of value I get out of your posts / time I spend reading them is too low. Work on that.
@Az What happened to abstinence?
Vish's wagon looks promising, I'm not a fan of the way he jumped on Sepirel in #129. It looks like he's going out of his way to misinterpret the quote
@Proph take a look at vish and tell me what you see
@me: I didn't back off Proph. I'm still questioning him.
The @Sepiriel and @Az will not help you find scum.
The @Proph : You want me to keep pressure on Proph but you specifically want Proph's input to see if your scumread is correct?
Then I amend my first statement, your vote is idiotic.
For someone who says she's here for having fun, you really have a weird vocabulary. Do you believe using words like 'idiotic' is fun?
I do when im using it to address this snarfle of idiocy (you are apparently reading much more aggression than what I;m actually using here).
"Oh look you are trying to use wit, YOU MUST BE SCUM!!!!"
yeah good luck there.
Nope, not what I accused you of. “using wit” and “being self-conscious” isn't the same thing.
Except I was using Wit, YOU saw it as Self-concious, the error there lies in your interpretation. Something you are failing to grasp despite repeatedly saying so over and over and over again.
barned it without actually adding anything to it, barned it in the scummiest way possible, barned it over a single RVS joke post.
Here you ARE calling all of them scum, which is not what you answered Karn when he asked you if you thought all of the voters were scum.
Doing something in a scummy way =/= scum, even then you are being intentionally obtuse by not even trying to look at the context.
OMG SCARBO CALLED ME SCUM (who the f is scarbo anyways? why does he suddenly carry the weight of mafia jesus?)
What does Scarbo's reputation have to do with anything?
Hmmmm.... you did. you are the one who went "Then scarbo also voted you" as if that somehow carries weight to your argument. You are having problem keeping your points straight it seems.
Honestly? From you personally? I would think maybe a bit of bias over an ongoing game, not holding against you if so but i am assuming thats the case which is why i was more understanding when dealing with the entirety of this crap wagon.
Don't reference ongoing games please. I hold no grudges just fyi.
You asked first, given that i have made no specific mention of anything i don't think im violating any rule.
I doubt all of those in the wagon are scum, dumb town maybe but surely you must agree scumm is also there.
I don't agree. You were the only valid person to vote for when RVS broke. This can very well be an all-town wagon.
But... What is it? Are all votes on you scummy or are they not?
calling voting me being a 'valid' course of action at that point in time is laughable, but even if you want to call it so the speed and traction that whole thing took instantly is disproportional to how the 'correct course' should have played out.
Hmmm the entire wagon is pretty much an "OMGUS YOU ARE SCUM FOR BEING SELF-CONCIOUS!", thats it, there is literally NOTHING of substance to the wagon.
You played way before I started playing. Was self-awareness not a tell back then?
Considering that you later on address the quote where i specifically bring into light my past gaming experience with the site i find this to be a sad attempt at entrapment.
"I like that you know im gonna go all ballistic because of the insanity surrounding my wagon, i mean its pretty much BS and if I do get lynched it would be the most idiotic thing ever because it would be because i made 1 RVS post (its hilarious that i have to write RVS so much for this *****)." is not a town response to pressure.
Hmmm, I am the one responding that way, I am Town, therefore it IS a town response. Maybe it is not a response you like but that doesnt change the alignment of the player making the response.
You're upset that you're wagoned over an RVS post, which makes sense as both alignments.
So you admit my response makes sense as both Town or Scum yet earlier state it is not a town mindset... yeah... I hope you see the problem.
But you're overly afraid of getting lynched over this.
Wut? I have responded by basically laughing my ass off at the shear (sheer?) stupidity of this wagon... if anything I would have understood if you had said im am too RELAXED over the idea of being lynched...
That is scum mindset.
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
]townie would know that they can easily recover from an RVS wagon by just being town and finding scum.
Except 'being town' requires you to address the posts against you, i did so, yet that is me being scared over being lynched... so being townie makes me scum... awesome.
I don't like how you split this whole part up in pieces and then give answers as though the previous part was never written. I am talking about the statement you made where you say “if I do get lynched”. You ARE worried about your lynch. You wrote it down.
I dislike how you begin splitting my post into pieces and then all of the sudden clump everything together... its inconsistent, lazy and misconstruing.
Me saying "If i do get lynched" is actually addressing the idiocy, ridiculousness and improbability of it all. that is not me being worried that is me being amused. But hey fine whatever you clearly know what im saying at all times, even when im saying otherwise you know better.
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
I didn't read your post as relaxed. And neither is this post. You're writing in all caps.
Sigh.... honestly at this point its like talking to a brick wall...
I think you're lying about your mindset, make us believe it's jokingly written to hide your real mindset.
Yeah sorry bub, you're wrong, you are never gonna listen and you clearly have it dead set in that mind of yours otherwise but you are most definitely wrong.
As for looking for scum, how about when im trying to engage the people ***** barning the wagon? isn't that trying to hunt scum? oh wait let me guess, it is not how you would do it therefore i must be scum. Noted.
Of all the people on your wagon, you chose Hans. Do you honestly believe Hans is scum with the way he approached that?
Im voting him arent I?
Yeah no, i would appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth. What i am concerned about is addressing this crap wagon and try to identify who jumped into it being dumb town, who jumped into it trying to fish out scum, and who jumped into it being scum.
But hey i get it, it is not how YOU scumhunt, therefore it must be a Scum mindset.
Ehm who's putting words in whose mouth now?
Still you.
And you aren't adressing the wagon. You picked on one person and smear the rest.
So i need to multi task the entire wagon all at once now huh? yeah no, not how i do things.
I like how hans did not address any of my complains regarding him, instead he simply addressed the fact i had forgotten to place a vote, he shows no real interest in defending against all of the accusations lobbied against him.
Do you genuinly like that or are you being sarcastic?
So i cannot find humor about something now? Is the context of the post and tone of it not clear?
I would agree with the post if it were NOT sarcastic. It's town mindset to ignore bad accusations and point out scummy behavior instead. What you describe is Hans's town mindset and use sarcasm to make it look scummy.
Yeah no, your words not mine, mine have been clearly placed before and it is not what you are saying, please try again.
I appreciate the fact that at least someone is being open minded to the tone and context of my reaction.
If you really read what I wrote instead of jumping all over me, you would see that I have an open mind too.
Ehm... maybe YOU think you are being openminded, but from where im standing you are not... hey you know what that looks like? like when im telling you im laughing my ass off at all the idiocy and you tell me i am not. Or hey how about when you tell me my word choice means im worried when im telling you i am not? yep there you go.
1. So the fact that she was talking about the lynch as if it was about to happen doesn't bother you at all?
Errr... when did i do that? I called the wagon crap and felt Zero real pressure over it, you are making it sound like i was running around screaming about me getting lynched.
This is an outright lie and misrepresentation of facts.
So you accuse me of lies now? The biggest part of my case was based on you talking about getting lynched. It's the part you chopped up in pieces and handwaved away.
Yes im saying you are presenting things wrongly, if you need me to spell it out to you yes i am saying you are lying.
Tell me, Sepi, do you think I am scum?
Honestly? I would say likely not given how adamant you are being about all this at this point, I just see no real scum benefit to go that dead set tunnel vision this early on in the game, getting me mislynched serves no real purpose since it wouldn't get the rest of the town to see you any better for it.
Nope i had never heard Self-Voting == Scum, i had heard of "self-voting can mean scum when examined later on and juxtaposed with behavioral analysis" but that culture is apparently long dead here.
So you really believe that voting the first player that does something like that to get reactions and analyse those reactions is NOT the way to go?
I never said that, if anything you are basically explaining a situation where it IS ok, however since you were apparently pre-convinced that self-voting == scum and any real interaction you have analyzed that i can see is just the responses of the person being voted (not questioning the people who actually joined). You are saying one thing but doing another
Notice that your wagon lost votes after your reactions. People ARE reading them and reassessing.
Oh yes i had noticed that, its the benefit of having the mod post a vote count.
Addressing the content RE: Sepiriel, I don't think viewing the wagon rationale as mildly ridiculous is unexpected regardless of alignment. Scum think weak cases on them are silly all the time. So do townies, but they do it subtly different ways. More pertinently, I haven't seen anything from him that does stylistically strikes me as an "ideal townie response" on initial read. It's been more of a skim though.
Can you do me a favor and really analyse Sep's responses? I'm not sure if I'm tunelling, but they don't seem to come from town imo.
I honestly give a rats ass if i get lynched now, its a dumb wagon based on dumb reasoning and a ingrained bias that revolves around having no shred of openmindedness.
I think im still at 6-7 votes but just in case: /mod Votecount pls?
Here you do it again. You say you're not worried about getting lynched but at the same time you ask a votecount while you're still far away from a lynch.
You ARE worried. And self-conscious. You talk about yourself all the time.
1) Im self-centered, im so awesome after all that it would be a crime and disservice to you plebs not to talk about myself as much as i can.
2) So asking a votecount when im not keeping track of the votes is being worried now? also you are either completely forgetting the so far claimed gruul ability or you are intentionally disregarding it, since votes can actually get out of hand quickly/
Sepiriel ->
I would like to see you post about things not related to you or your wagon.
I dislike this question. It's true that Sepi needs to do this, but the way he asks it is too nice.
I'm "too nice" because I want her to stop being on the defensive all the time. The more this goes on, the less her posts are meaningful. Right now she's repeating the same arguments against the same accusations, over and over again, like an endless loop.
If people bothered to actually listen i wouldn't be force to do this endless loop.
============================================================
So here comes a bit of an awkward part:
Im going to be V/LA until Friday 3/13/15, because i really need to take time off to review my study topics for my final oral defense.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
First order of business: My alignment is not revealed when I die. Given several other players' posts, this is the Church of Deals guild mechanic.
Given that, I am *STRONGLY* against lynching any member of my guild D1. Part of the point of D1 is getting a flip to look at interactions from, lynching a player whose alignment will not be revealed doesn't help with that.
That means we are not lynching Sepiriel toDay. Not sure we should do so at all, actually? Sepiriel's defense isn't *great*, but I could see it coming from town, the way the wagon developed suggests that Sepiriel is town (it was the first wagon out of RVS, it developed very quickly, and there's no counterwagon), and Rhand vs. Sepiriel feels like a town-on-town slapfight.
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I want any Gruul players who haven't already claimed to do so, for reasons I will explain once they have done so.
Guild massclaim... I'm not entirely comfortable with it - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a guild claim punisher running around - but with two guilds (Orzhov, Gruul) that need to claim immediately and four claims already from a third I think we're going to see the downside even if we don't guildclaim so why not?
---
Quick thoughts:
- Hans is very likely town. Scum don't generally stick their head out like that and try to make themselves the center of attention, especially negative attention.
- Az is fairly likely town, for reasons I won't explain at this time.
- Not sure why Proph is drawing flak? Everything I've seen is pretty typical Proph (see: Porcelain Waltz and Unreal Tournament), and he's being active (Proph has one of the same fundamental limitations as scum that I do: he can't maintain motivation as scum for extended periods of time, and tends to lurk, especially as the game goes on).
- Not sure what to make of Vishamon - his 129 is a stretch, but I don't think that's alignment indicative? That could come from either overreaching scum or a townie who's trying to sell his case (I should know, I do that sort of thing all the time).
The way you worded this is weird. You didn't directly ask him to expound.
Not entirely substantial, but worth noting. This is how one scum tends to talk to another - indirectly.
Why haven't you followed up on this? This comment implies that you think Proph and ZDS might both be scum, but you haven't attempted to pressure either and haven't interacted with ZDS *at all*.
Right now I'm thinking seperiel is scum, I'm familiar with the people that started that lynch and it seems in line with how they would play town.
Explain, please. In particular, even if we assume Sepiriel's attackers are town - why would suggest that Sepiriel is scum, as opposed to Sepiriel being town and his attackers just being *wrong*?
I don't like how easily Sir Karn has been throwing accusations around so far.
I still don't think Hansanator is scum.
Scarbo pings my radar in every possible direction.
Unvote, Vote: Sir Karn
If scarbo "pings your radar in every possible direction" and you just "don't like how easily Sir Karn has been throwing accusations around", then why are you voting Sir Karn over scarbo?
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
You should give those reasons why Proph is scum now instead of later (or never).
It's a pretty tenuous observation that I made, and I wasn't intending to persuade anyone with it. You'll probably laugh at me if I tell you.
You wrote the same post twice but in the second one there's been more added, so you reworked what you were originally saying. This suggests the response is more "crafted" than authentic. You also are trying to downplay your involvement with voting Sepiriel - of course it's a tenuous observation, the game was 20 posts old. Just spit it out and stand by your reads if you actually have them.
A) If hans's post is crafted instead of authentic... then why did he post it twice, when doing so would surely draw attention to himself? If anything, the rephasing suggests that hans is *town* who doesn't care about how he's perceived.
B) How is hans "trying to downplay his involvement with voting Sepiriel", especially considering that he was specifically responding to multiple people asking him why he thought *Proph* was scum?
Rhand seems way more twitchy than I remember him. AI wisely made no response to my post, but Rhand popped up with "no his reaction looks town!!" before AI even had a chance to say anything. Why get involved, Rhand?
Sepiriel looks really desperate already and the game has just begun. Especially the "you have no idea how I play, we've never played together before" line is just really weak. Immediately attacking basically everyone who RVS voted you carries more than a hint of panic. But he's not the only one to be playing the meta card this early - I think I saw someone earlier post something like "that's not how I react as town" which of course is as meaningful as the sound of a rusty gate creaking in the wind.
Why do you think Sepiriel's defense comes from scum instead of panicking town? Townies can get desperate in the face of a lynch or even a single strong attack (case in point: Generic in WWE Mafia, who imploded and coughed up an unforced vanilla claim when I attacked him early D1) - Sepiriel's defense may be *bad*, but I don't see how that makes him *scum*.
Moreover, why include the last sentence? Even if another player is invoking self-meta, that's completely irrelevant to Sepiriel's alignment.
I don't think every gruul member completely abstaining from voting is necessary. We'd lose other utilities of voting such as convenient record keeping and the aforementioned wagon analysis. That is, unless someone is willing to run a second votecount that counts FoS's. (Sure as hell isn't me)
For the record, I like my vote where it is right now
Why do you like your vote where it is? More to the point, why not explain why you like your hansanator vote (and, implicitly, why you think he is scum), especially since you've just spent a fair amount of time explaining your thoughts on game mechanics?
I don't like Proph's #48. Behavioral interaction between 2 players is an important scumhunting tool and proph's whole point doesn't make sense. In fact, I find it troubling that he's more focused on clearing town than finding scum. AI's response to hans is the correct one, proph's just reeks.
Uh, what?
A) I'm not sure why Proph thinks Sir Karn has a "focus" on hunting pairs instead of individuals from just one post, but aside from that I completely understand Proph finding Karn's 43 questionable and don't understand why you *don't* - Karn takes a potshot at Proph without backing it up with a vote or following up on it in any way, which doesn't make a lot of sense from town and *does* make sense if Karn is scum slinging mud at a townie to see if it sticks.
B) Why would Proph focusing on finding town be concerning? Proph's a PoE player like myself, and PoE relies on figuring out which players *aren't* scum and lynching the rest - finding and clearing town *is* scumhunting in that mindset.
C) Why does Proph's response to hans "reek"? It makes perfect sense if Proph is town who thought about what hans was doing and realized that it would make no sense from scum.
@Rhand I don't really like how quickly you backed off proph
@Sepiriel the ratio of value I get out of your posts / time I spend reading them is too low. Work on that.
@Az What happened to abstinence?
Vish's wagon looks promising, I'm not a fan of the way he jumped on Sepirel in #129. It looks like he's going out of his way to misinterpret the quote
@Proph take a look at vish and tell me what you see
Why are you supporting a Vish wagon without committing to it? More to the point, why are you asking Proph for his opinion on Vish in a way that suggests that you are trying to get Proph to support the wagon when you're pseudovoting Proph?
Vote: Atogaholic
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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"Oh look you are trying to use wit, YOU MUST BE SCUM!!!!"
yeah good luck there.
barned it without actually adding anything to it, barned it in the scummiest way possible, barned it over a single RVS joke post.
OMG SCARBO CALLED ME SCUM (who the f is scarbo anyways? why does he suddenly carry the weight of mafia jesus?)
Honestly? From you personally? I would think maybe a bit of bias over an ongoing game, not holding against you if so but i am assuming thats the case which is why i was more understanding when dealing with the entirety of this crap wagon.
I doubt all of those in the wagon are scum, dumb town maybe but surely you must agree scumm is also there.
Hmmm the entire wagon is pretty much an "OMGUS YOU ARE SCUM FOR BEING SELF-CONCIOUS!", thats it, there is literally NOTHING of substance to the wagon.
Hmmm, I am the one responding that way, I am Town, therefore it IS a town response. Maybe it is not a response you like but that doesnt change the alignment of the player making the response.
So you admit my response makes sense as both Town or Scum yet earlier state it is not a town mindset... yeah... I hope you see the problem.
Wut? I have responded by basically laughing my ass off at the shear (sheer?) stupidity of this wagon... if anything I would have understood if you had said im am too RELAXED over the idea of being lynched...
Attention Town! DO NOT ACT RELAXED THIS GAME, IT WILL CAUSE RHAND TO AUTO-LOCK YOU AS SCUM!
Except 'being town' requires you to address the posts against you, i did so, yet that is me being scared over being lynched... so being townie makes me scum... awesome.
As for looking for scum, how about when im trying to engage the people ***** barning the wagon? isn't that trying to hunt scum? oh wait let me guess, it is not how you would do it therefore i must be scum. Noted.
So you are saying town would never react with apprehension over having a sudden wagon overnight over nothing?
Ok fine ill concede that is was a lapse on my part, my response is it was a lapse, sue me.
Yeah no, i would appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth. What i am concerned about is addressing this crap wagon and try to identify who jumped into it being dumb town, who jumped into it trying to fish out scum, and who jumped into it being scum.
But hey i get it, it is not how YOU scumhunt, therefore it must be a Scum mindset.
So i cannot find humor about something now? Is the context of the post and tone of it not clear?
I appreciate the fact that at least someone is being open minded to the tone and context of my reaction.
Errr... when did i do that? I called the wagon crap and felt Zero real pressure over it, you are making it sound like i was running around screaming about me getting lynched.
This is an outright lie and misrepresentation of facts.
I think i see the problem here.
I am literally taking this as a game, something that has no bearing in my life or to be honest any importance at all, I am approaching it as a simple "the most enjoyment i can get for the longest time i can get".
Winning would be great but Im playing more along the moment than the overall end result.
Whereas you guys are trying to read me as a town/scum whose mentality is first and foremost to win the game.
Which is why you guys are reading "nervousness" where I am saying "hilarity", or why you guys are saying im coming of as anything but relaxed/amused.
Yeah this post is just me rambling about myself, not my Game self but my RL self... i'll go cry in a corner now (thats a joke btw, before someone goes shouting self-deprecation is a scum tell or something XD)
Sepiriel looks really desperate already and the game has just begun. Especially the "you have no idea how I play, we've never played together before" line is just really weak. Immediately attacking basically everyone who RVS voted you carries more than a hint of panic. But he's not the only one to be playing the meta card this early - I think I saw someone earlier post something like "that's not how I react as town" which of course is as meaningful as the sound of a rusty gate creaking in the wind.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I'm a little surprised Proph didn't jump on as well. I thought that was one of the very things he looks for in the early RVS stages. Instead he says this:
This is like the opposite of what I remember from last game. Why the change in behavior? There was something else I can't remember at the moment also.
I think I agree with ZDS mostly about Sep though.
I would probably be blowing a gasket if that happened to me.
Vote: Proph
If you really mean to let him answer on his own, then why are you even making this post? It seems like you're immediately trying to downplay the question AI asked before hans has even rolled around to seeing it (in actuality he did see it and answer it before you even posted, but the posts were only 3 minutes apart and I doubt you knew hans had already posted.)
You wrote the same post twice but in the second one there's been more added, so you reworked what you were originally saying. This suggests the response is more "crafted" than authentic. You also are trying to downplay your involvement with voting Sepiriel - of course it's a tenuous observation, the game was 20 posts old. Just spit it out and stand by your reads if you actually have them.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
At this point all i can do is i honestly have no ****s to give if this is how people are going to address this.
Sorry but my idea of fun is apparently not what you guys consider the "norm".
Get me to claim range so i can claim you guys will rage and say its obv. scum i can get lynched and then i can laugh my ass off when you are proven wrong, because clearly you aren't even willing to listen. (I'm using the plural You, in case that was not clear.)
I am honestly baffled by the idiocy, yes.
I know self voting was frowned upon by a subset of "this is just so bad you must be scum" of the player base, i had no idea it had become such an ingrained part of the game since my last game here.
I wouldn't have been surprised to get one or two votes, getting an entire wagon going and then people going all "huff puff you are obvious scum, or a stupid bad player huff puff" is a little baffling, this is not the environment i last played on clearly.
Nope i had never heard Self-Voting == Scum, i had heard of "self-voting can mean scum when examined later on and juxtaposed with behavioral analysis" but that culture is apparently long dead here.
I first started about 5 years ago, played a few (i think a grand total of maybe 10 games?) within 2 years then went on a bit of hiatus from Mafia (and the site in general) for about 3 years, and have only recently returned, in the absence i had zero contact with the game of Mafia.
This i can understand, which is what i was trying to analyze, but then again doing that is scum mindset by what i have been told.
Awesome i suppose.
I suppose our response to stress and or bewilderment is just too different, then again my mindset going into the game appears to be too unorthodox compared to what you guys are used to and/or expecting... so once more my favorite emoticon
^^
Sepiriel came back in, exploded in self-defense by calling [i]literally[/i] everyone that was voting him "stupid" or "idiotic", and deemed EVERY SINGLE ONE voting him as scum.
That's play that could honestly come from town or scum. Either way, it's a bad player, but I'm not so sure about his alignment anymore - I've seen this behaviour from both new scum and new town, and it's probably weighed about 70% in town's favor if I'm just going off memory.
On another note: ZDS already changing his reasons for voting me when corrected the first time.
Starts out saying I'm trying to "muddy up as many players as [I] can."
Gets promptly and accurately corrected by Rhand.
Falls back to saying that the attempts were still "shallow" even though his main point was destroyed.
I'm quite certain he's just trying to craft up reasons to vote me since I'm already onto him and Proph and he sees me as a threat.
Unvote
Vote: ZeDorkSlipeur
And end of the day you simply go "Oh hei fencesit!, Imma move mah vote to ZDS"
So who is not included as scum that was voting you?
And @point 2: When results are inconclusive, do you like to pretend you know the answer anyway? I'm not going to put up a fake front when your alignment could go either way. And I have two other leads that I'm ready to pursue.
can you dig up a game that supports this? I don't think I've played with Zindabad before, let alone remember his scum/town meta
@Proph: You referenced hans' playstyle earlier. Again, I have no clue how hans plays, but I'd like to see evidence that it's "like a crackhead," because that's what I'm seeing here.
This might be a scum ZDS. Or perhaps I'm just misreading you initially again.
Addressing the content RE: Sepiriel, I don't think viewing the wagon rationale as mildly ridiculous is unexpected regardless of alignment. Scum think weak cases on them are silly all the time. So do townies, but they do it subtly different ways. More pertinently, I haven't seen anything from him that does stylistically strikes me as an "ideal townie response" on initial read. It's been more of a skim though.
I think Axelrod's town, so far.
funny because your initial barn was with inconclusive results, hell everything we up until the point of a lynch is based on inconclusive results...
Nope, not Seppel, he is currently in the replacements list, im my own self, definitely not a Seppel gimmick, yeah guys, definitely not.
The answer is yes, or was it 42? i always get that confused.
With regards to "RVS self vote is a scum tell": I've definitely seen that quoted as a rule in the past, and I can definitely see the reasoning behind it.
Vote Sepiriel
I get what you are trying to say here, i can say your thinking is correct even if the reasoning is not exactly what i agree with, hooray for the subjectiveness of psychology i suppose
@zds: I knew you were going to call it omgus, even though I was talking about you pages before you voted me
What do you find shallow about my previous accusations? Why do they stand out to you from other people's accusations from the same part of the game?
Please share that opinion about what hansanator was doing now, then, if you would.
Asking that question was a grave mistake.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Sepiriel's anger is unforced and he's clearly confused. It's hard to fake confusion. I also think his anger is very genuine - he's displaying a lot of classic "town under pressure" tells. Examples:
I agree with ZDS's empathy-interpretation of Sepiriel's posts.
I did indeed notice it, but I wanted to take a different approach to RVS this game in contrast to my previous game, Iji. In Iji I ended RVS very early and the person who I attacked based on RVS was not scum. In addition, I got quite a lot of flak and a wagon built on me early for my aggressive approach. I wanted to not overextend myself this game.
Why?
Compare Battle Factory Mafia (town) and Celestial Mafia (scum). In Battle Factory he's just proposing terrible plans and that's why he got lynched on Day 1. In Celestial he's holding the cards to his chest and playing a lot more "safe".
@Azrael: Can you please explain why you think Axelrod and Rhand are town, as well as you why you think ZDS is scum? You're just tossing out reads left and right and I'm having trouble following your thought progression. I feel a bit foolish asking this but it's necessary.
----
At the moment, I'm feeling kind of lost. I have two fairly decent town reads (hans and Sepiriel) but I literally do not have any scum reads yet, and I noted down in my notes QT "Well I'm kind of flailing around aimlessly right now". I thought about it a bit more and I feel like I'm like Megiddo in Amistarian Mafia 3 - with all of these big names I feel like I'm "out of my league". I guess I'll try to reread and provide thoughts on other players, but the game is still very young. My only lead (Sir Karn) went nowhere and I feel like I need to look at the game from a fresh perspective.
I'm trying to enjoy the game for as long as possible... im not going to deny that, I am also not going to invest myself to the degree that you guys are apparently wanting me to invest just to satisfy YOUR needs, that is not why im playing.
I honestly give a rats ass if i get lynched now, its a dumb wagon based on dumb reasoning and a ingrained bias that revolves around having no shred of openmindedness.
I think im still at 6-7 votes but just in case:
/mod Votecount pls?
I wouldnt have joined such a wagon to begin with so i think the point is moot, but i will concede i will always place a vote where i think my case is strongest yes.
Also, not even a slight scum read on anybody right now?
Vote Vishamon. Overreaching, and worded like a scum.
Not at all. Also, +town you.
Axelrod and Rhand are both posting naturally, forming original thoughts in an organic-seeming way. Same for you, plus natural curiosity. ZDS post that I quoted bothered me bc it's a post that ordinarily comes complete with some kind of alignment read, but didn't. However, I seem to recall that being a hallmark of his posting style that almost had me mislynch him in the last game we played, until he started showing some alternative townie tells.
Town.
Not really - I'm kind of falling back onto townhunting at the moment, but we'll see.
Dude how drunk were you.
While the town is slightly more likely to mislynch than lynch correctly on D1, NL is not as useful for the purposes of teasing out interactions, including who pushed for a lynch and for what reasons. A D1 that ends with NL, barring some kind of role-related interaction, is a wasted Day.
At first I agreed with Rhand re: Sepiriel's flailing, but ZDS's counterargument is also persuasive. Personally, I think Sepiriel's AtE is more indicative of an unrefined playstyle than proof of his townishness, but at this point I am willing to leave him alone for now.
I also want to hear what scarbo and Archmage Eternal claim to have on zindabad as I always read him as scum. Same for ZDS re: Sir Karn.
Currently have a town read on Proph.
Unvote
lol Cythare has exactly one post and it is RVS
post moar
I'm very much looking forward to this because I feel the exact opposite.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Sure
Scum Zindabad will not commit, but will throw mud in hopes the town will run with it. He thinks he detected something but does not give any details. In fact there was no panick from AI. He was in favor of a guild claim and also said he was not Gruul
No
I agree and could get behind this wagon.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
AsianInvasion (1): Prophylaxis
Sepiriel (2): Rhand, Vishamon
zindabad (2): Scarbo, Archmage Eternal
ZeDorkSlipeur (3): Cythare, Obzedat, Sir Karn
Prophylaxis (1): Axelrod
Obzedat (1): hansanator
hansanator (1): Sepiriel
Sir Karn (1): ZeDorkSlipeur
Vishamon (1): Azrael
Still 11 to lynch.
Guys, what does this even mean?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
uh
I looked at Rhand's posts and can see where you would get that conclusion (not townreading him yet because generally I like my town reads to be more accurate than my scum reads, and would rather pick the low-hanging fruit here first), but why Axelrod? His first few posts are about mechanics before he places a pretty poor vote on me.
And doesn't ZDS's post come with an alignment read?
--
Reasoning? I was actually expecting to be pressured for my "lol I don't have anything and I'm wrong" response, so I'm a bit surprised by this.
--
Can you answer my question?
--
I want zindabad to respond to AI but if I remember, zindabad sort of has a defensive playstyle early game and strong analysis late game, which is why I'm adopting more of a "wait and see" approach right now.
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch the Ghost Council Day 1, since we literally have no idea what will happen and once again I'm leery on mechanics. My theory is that it's someone from the replacement list, though this is just pure speculation at this point.
Where is Taredas? Would love to see him post. I hope he's town since we work well together.
Town: Rhand, Axelrod, ZDS, Proph
Null: Sepiriel
Scum: Vishamon
Unless you've stepped up your scum game significantly, you are not confident enough to post that sort of thing as scum without having some sort of direction for followup.
A reminder that I will be V/LA for a couple days.
@Sepiriel the ratio of value I get out of your posts / time I spend reading them is too low. Work on that.
@Az What happened to abstinence?
Vish's wagon looks promising, I'm not a fan of the way he jumped on Sepirel in #129. It looks like he's going out of his way to misinterpret the quote
@Proph take a look at vish and tell me what you see
For someone who says she's here for having fun, you really have a weird vocabulary. Do you believe using words like 'idiotic' is fun?
Nope, not what I accused you of. “using wit” and “being self-conscious” isn't the same thing.
Here you ARE calling all of them scum, which is not what you answered Karn when he asked you if you thought all of the voters were scum.
What does Scarbo's reputation have to do with anything?
Don't reference ongoing games please. I hold no grudges just fyi.
I don't agree. You were the only valid person to vote for when RVS broke. This can very well be an all-town wagon.
But... What is it? Are all votes on you scummy or are they not?
You played way before I started playing. Was self-awareness not a tell back then?
I don't like how you split this whole part up in pieces and then give answers as though the previous part was never written. I am talking about the statement you made where you say “if I do get lynched”. You ARE worried about your lynch. You wrote it down.
I didn't read your post as relaxed. And neither is this post. You're writing in all caps.
I think you're lying about your mindset, make us believe it's jokingly written to hide your real mindset.
Of all the people on your wagon, you chose Hans. Do you honestly believe Hans is scum with the way he approached that?
Ehm who's putting words in whose mouth now?
And you aren't adressing the wagon. You picked on one person and smear the rest.
I would agree with the post if it were NOT sarcastic. It's town mindset to ignore bad accusations and point out scummy behavior instead. What you describe is Hans's town mindset and use sarcasm to make it look scummy.
If you really read what I wrote instead of jumping all over me, you would see that I have an open mind too.
So you accuse me of lies now? The biggest part of my case was based on you talking about getting lynched. It's the part you chopped up in pieces and handwaved away.
Tell me, Sepi, do you think I am scum?
====
Eh? You almost literally asked for input on that. Someone accused you of trying to find someone to do the work for you.
====
So you really believe that voting the first player that does something like that to get reactions and analyse those reactions is NOT the way to go?
Notice that your wagon lost votes after your reactions. People ARE reading them and reassessing.
====
/barn Karn on ZDS. His reasoning for his Karn vote is weak and he doesn't want to acknowledge that, downplaying his own reasoning even more to be able to keep his vote on.
====
Can you do me a favor and really analyse Sep's responses? I'm not sure if I'm tunelling, but they don't seem to come from town imo.
====
I dislike this question. It's true that Sepi needs to do this, but the way he asks it is too nice.
====
Ew. You're basicly saying that you are consciously avoiding your own meta.
And why would you get that flak if I'm the one being vocal about the RVS thing?
====
Here you do it again. You say you're not worried about getting lynched but at the same time you ask a votecount while you're still far away from a lynch.
You ARE worried. And self-conscious. You talk about yourself all the time.
====
Why Cythare specifically? He's not the only one that isn't posting.
====
/barn this. This statement needs reasoning.
====
Why put Sepiriel on null and not mention the other 13 players at all?
====
@me: I didn't back off Proph. I'm still questioning him.
The @Sepiriel and @Az will not help you find scum.
The @Proph : You want me to keep pressure on Proph but you specifically want Proph's input to see if your scumread is correct?
Except I was using Wit, YOU saw it as Self-concious, the error there lies in your interpretation. Something you are failing to grasp despite repeatedly saying so over and over and over again.
Doing something in a scummy way =/= scum, even then you are being intentionally obtuse by not even trying to look at the context.
Hmmmm.... you did. you are the one who went "Then scarbo also voted you" as if that somehow carries weight to your argument. You are having problem keeping your points straight it seems.
You asked first, given that i have made no specific mention of anything i don't think im violating any rule.
calling voting me being a 'valid' course of action at that point in time is laughable, but even if you want to call it so the speed and traction that whole thing took instantly is disproportional to how the 'correct course' should have played out.
Considering that you later on address the quote where i specifically bring into light my past gaming experience with the site i find this to be a sad attempt at entrapment.
I dislike how you begin splitting my post into pieces and then all of the sudden clump everything together... its inconsistent, lazy and misconstruing.
Me saying "If i do get lynched" is actually addressing the idiocy, ridiculousness and improbability of it all. that is not me being worried that is me being amused. But hey fine whatever you clearly know what im saying at all times, even when im saying otherwise you know better.
Sigh.... honestly at this point its like talking to a brick wall...
Yeah sorry bub, you're wrong, you are never gonna listen and you clearly have it dead set in that mind of yours otherwise but you are most definitely wrong.
Im voting him arent I?
Still you.
So i need to multi task the entire wagon all at once now huh? yeah no, not how i do things.
Yeah no, your words not mine, mine have been clearly placed before and it is not what you are saying, please try again.
Ehm... maybe YOU think you are being openminded, but from where im standing you are not... hey you know what that looks like? like when im telling you im laughing my ass off at all the idiocy and you tell me i am not. Or hey how about when you tell me my word choice means im worried when im telling you i am not? yep there you go.
Yes im saying you are presenting things wrongly, if you need me to spell it out to you yes i am saying you are lying.
Honestly? I would say likely not given how adamant you are being about all this at this point, I just see no real scum benefit to go that dead set tunnel vision this early on in the game, getting me mislynched serves no real purpose since it wouldn't get the rest of the town to see you any better for it.
I never said that, if anything you are basically explaining a situation where it IS ok, however since you were apparently pre-convinced that self-voting == scum and any real interaction you have analyzed that i can see is just the responses of the person being voted (not questioning the people who actually joined). You are saying one thing but doing another
Oh yes i had noticed that, its the benefit of having the mod post a vote count.
Oh no, Rhand you are tunneling alright.
1) Im self-centered, im so awesome after all that it would be a crime and disservice to you plebs not to talk about myself as much as i can.
2) So asking a votecount when im not keeping track of the votes is being worried now? also you are either completely forgetting the so far claimed gruul ability or you are intentionally disregarding it, since votes can actually get out of hand quickly/
If people bothered to actually listen i wouldn't be force to do this endless loop.
============================================================
So here comes a bit of an awkward part:
Im going to be V/LA until Friday 3/13/15, because i really need to take time off to review my study topics for my final oral defense.
Given that, I am *STRONGLY* against lynching any member of my guild D1. Part of the point of D1 is getting a flip to look at interactions from, lynching a player whose alignment will not be revealed doesn't help with that.
That means we are not lynching Sepiriel toDay. Not sure we should do so at all, actually? Sepiriel's defense isn't *great*, but I could see it coming from town, the way the wagon developed suggests that Sepiriel is town (it was the first wagon out of RVS, it developed very quickly, and there's no counterwagon), and Rhand vs. Sepiriel feels like a town-on-town slapfight.
---
I want any Gruul players who haven't already claimed to do so, for reasons I will explain once they have done so.
Guild massclaim... I'm not entirely comfortable with it - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a guild claim punisher running around - but with two guilds (Orzhov, Gruul) that need to claim immediately and four claims already from a third I think we're going to see the downside even if we don't guildclaim so why not?
---
Quick thoughts:
- Hans is very likely town. Scum don't generally stick their head out like that and try to make themselves the center of attention, especially negative attention.
- Az is fairly likely town, for reasons I won't explain at this time.
- Not sure why Proph is drawing flak? Everything I've seen is pretty typical Proph (see: Porcelain Waltz and Unreal Tournament), and he's being active (Proph has one of the same fundamental limitations as scum that I do: he can't maintain motivation as scum for extended periods of time, and tends to lurk, especially as the game goes on).
- Not sure what to make of Vishamon - his 129 is a stretch, but I don't think that's alignment indicative? That could come from either overreaching scum or a townie who's trying to sell his case (I should know, I do that sort of thing all the time).
---
Snurfy.
Hey, Snurfy.
Are you scum?
---
Why haven't you followed up on this? This comment implies that you think Proph and ZDS might both be scum, but you haven't attempted to pressure either and haven't interacted with ZDS *at all*.
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Explain, please. In particular, even if we assume Sepiriel's attackers are town - why would suggest that Sepiriel is scum, as opposed to Sepiriel being town and his attackers just being *wrong*?
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If scarbo "pings your radar in every possible direction" and you just "don't like how easily Sir Karn has been throwing accusations around", then why are you voting Sir Karn over scarbo?
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Why?
A) If hans's post is crafted instead of authentic... then why did he post it twice, when doing so would surely draw attention to himself? If anything, the rephasing suggests that hans is *town* who doesn't care about how he's perceived.
B) How is hans "trying to downplay his involvement with voting Sepiriel", especially considering that he was specifically responding to multiple people asking him why he thought *Proph* was scum?
Why do you think Sepiriel's defense comes from scum instead of panicking town? Townies can get desperate in the face of a lynch or even a single strong attack (case in point: Generic in WWE Mafia, who imploded and coughed up an unforced vanilla claim when I attacked him early D1) - Sepiriel's defense may be *bad*, but I don't see how that makes him *scum*.
Moreover, why include the last sentence? Even if another player is invoking self-meta, that's completely irrelevant to Sepiriel's alignment.
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Why do you like your vote where it is? More to the point, why not explain why you like your hansanator vote (and, implicitly, why you think he is scum), especially since you've just spent a fair amount of time explaining your thoughts on game mechanics?
Why post this?
Uh, what?
A) I'm not sure why Proph thinks Sir Karn has a "focus" on hunting pairs instead of individuals from just one post, but aside from that I completely understand Proph finding Karn's 43 questionable and don't understand why you *don't* - Karn takes a potshot at Proph without backing it up with a vote or following up on it in any way, which doesn't make a lot of sense from town and *does* make sense if Karn is scum slinging mud at a townie to see if it sticks.
B) Why would Proph focusing on finding town be concerning? Proph's a PoE player like myself, and PoE relies on figuring out which players *aren't* scum and lynching the rest - finding and clearing town *is* scumhunting in that mindset.
C) Why does Proph's response to hans "reek"? It makes perfect sense if Proph is town who thought about what hans was doing and realized that it would make no sense from scum.
Why are you supporting a Vish wagon without committing to it? More to the point, why are you asking Proph for his opinion on Vish in a way that suggests that you are trying to get Proph to support the wagon when you're pseudovoting Proph?
Vote: Atogaholic
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."