You noticed that banter huh? Yea I had to coach him up there being a rookie and all.
I left my vote on you because I had no need to move it. Now that you've slipped up there's no reason for me to unvote. Explain how my points are twisted.
Now onto you second part. See that's where your tripping over yourself. Your pushing for others (yea I noticed you have to keep mentioning your a townie) to make a case as to lynching one of your two townies. You should be stepping in and persuading others to ignore them and put their eyes onto someone else.
You seem awful concerned about me being a rookie. Which is exactly what I expected you to be praying on as scum. Calling me out as the new guy only paints you as the bad guy. Not me. We have established I am the new guy on the block and people have been trying to read me one way or the other all of toDay, but all you did was hear I was new, plant your vote, and then jump on the bandwagon of your little scumbuddy Az as soon as opportunity presented itself for your vote on the noob to be "viable." Still waiting on Az to answer as to why he did what he did.
Your votes are twisted for the reasons I already expressed. I thought Seppel vs. Generic was a dumb idea, but if I had missed something I needed someone to explain to me what that was. I did not want it to be Seppel or Generic since they were already heated at one another and the case would be skewed with their dislike of one another. Generic was/is? stuck on lynching Seppel as it is his top read, not to mention Seppel has the largest bus developed. I figured one of them could let me know as to why Seppel was scum, aside from his modgaming tendencies. Generic is super aggro but one of my definite town reads at this time. I am not happy voting for either one, but it seemed to be where this day was going.... Well, until you decided to put the focus back another direction. I do see your point now that I shouldn't have given into letting the 1 vs 1 happen, however, that was really my being new stupidity. I assure you, I am town. Blue through and through. You on the other hand have seriously painted yourself a different color. The only person I am pushing for is you. If I were pushing for one of the two in the previous feud, I would have voted! But I didn't, I wanted to actually hear some others contribute to toDay.
And I am glad you did. Because you look awful now.
I could care less about you being new. The rookie reference was in regards to Az not you. It was a play on words kind of thing, but if I have to explain it to you it loses it's zing. So tuck your newbie card in your back pocket and stop trying to hide behind it. That said, it deflates your thought process of me praying on you so try again.
OK so lets break this down.
You thought G/S was a bad idea? No, you said you think its active townies. That your not really(key word here) happy lynching either. If what your saying now is true, that Generic is one of your definite town reads. Then you would have said that and employed the town to look elsewhere because you have no interest in lynching them. If your not happy with the way the day was heading then take it upon yourself to steer it in another direction and not settle for the town to make cases on either of your town reads and lynch one of them. To settle on lynching so called townies because that's were it seems to be going is horrendous town play.
This last statement I really dislike. "If I were pushing for one of the two in the previous feud, I would have voted! But I didn't, I wanted to actually hear some others contribute to today".
No you weren't pushing, you were setting yourself up to jump on a wagon with your weak "I think" and "not really happy" choice of words.
Wow, this is a huge stretch. I don't see him saying that he's willing to lynch Seppel or Generic. If anything, he wants us to consider not to lynch them and make our own cases in case we do instead of blindly following Generic / Seppel in theirs.
I don't see a plan to hop on one of the wagons in this post. What I see is him making sure no one does so just because Generic / Seppel ask for it.
Point 3 is therefor extremely far-fetched.
Stretch? Pay attention to his wording. It betrays his thought process. Rhand, he says they're town. Or rather thinks they are. Then finishes with "If we" which takes us to you talking about making our own cases. There's no need to make cases or ask for cases unless he wants to use that as a way to jump on a lynching wagon without any suspicion.
This was the first time you voted me Archmage. This was back in RVS. The cute little banter quoted in there between you and Az is definitely screaming scum team winking at one another. I have asked you repeatedly why you were still voting me, and you have NEVER answered. I am thinking it's because you are a lazy scum and just left your vote on me until you could get a bus rolling. Your points as to why I am scum from the one post are twisted at best. Plus, you didn't let your little scumbuddy Az answer for himself. I asked HIM why. Not you. Thank you for confirming what was already bothering me though. I appreciate you making this easier for me and the rest of my townies. I am not scared of starting a wagon. I just did.
VOTE ARCHMAGE ETERNAL
What I was saying in the post in question was that Generic was hellbent and determined to be lynching Seppel, and Seppel seemed ready to be going down that road as well. If others, as in the other townies like myself, had a case that I should hear, I wanted to hear it. But I am done with that logic now.
I definitely don't want to be lynching fellow blues. I am happy though that I can now target my top read.
Wow, this is a huge stretch. I don't see him saying that he's willing to lynch Seppel or Generic. If anything, he wants us to consider not to lynch them and make our own cases in case we do instead of blindly following Generic / Seppel in theirs.
I don't see a plan to hop on one of the wagons in this post. What I see is him making sure no one does so just because Generic / Seppel ask for it.
Point 3 is therefor extremely far-fetched.
Stretch? Pay attention to his wording. It betrays his thought process. Rhand, he says they're town. Or rather thinks they are. Then finishes with "If we" which takes us to you talking about making our own cases. There's no need to make cases or ask for cases unless he wants to use that as a way to jump on a lynching wagon without any suspicion.
But he asks for cases IF we're going for the 1VS1. which I read as a plea to not jump on the 1vs1 unless there's a reason to do so. Which is a town mindset.
@Azrael: do you agree completely with AE's assessment of that post?
[seppel and azrael for scum so far. Azraels response the more I think about it the more I feel is someone trying to stay looking breezy. And seppel has now completely run away, looking for the first opportunity to get out of what he started.
And I'm annoyed that I lay something down wbixh was worded in a slightly iffy way and nobody sees it and questions it. I know my own alignment and I still saw it! Lol.
I'm gonna wait to see who spots it first, a town cookie in it for whoever finds it.
This is weird. You immediately basically called it out yourself in the very next post. Why would you expect people to call you on it further after you did that?
Breezy isn't my scum-style. Not caring/posting is my scum-style. Vote me for the right reasons!
Thanks for justifying my vote. More votes on azrael please.
First of all, you can't seriously think that quote, coming from Az, is a scum indicator. Second, immediately after calling for more votes on Az, you switch to Seppel. And then you switch to Dechs after Seppel votes him. Why?
I'll shoot that grin right off your face. Just sayn'.
Vote Huntzilla
This was the first time you voted me Archmage. This was back in RVS. The cute little banter quoted in there between you and Az is definitely screaming scum team winking at one another. I have asked you repeatedly why you were still voting me, and you have NEVER answered. I am thinking it's because you are a lazy scum and just left your vote on me until you could get a bus rolling. Your points as to why I am scum from the one post are twisted at best. Plus, you didn't let your little scumbuddy Az answer for himself. I asked HIM why. Not you. Thank you for confirming what was already bothering me though. I appreciate you making this easier for me and the rest of my townies. I am not scared of starting a wagon. I just did.
VOTE ARCHMAGE ETERNAL
What I was saying in the post in question was that Generic was hellbent and determined to be lynching Seppel, and Seppel seemed ready to be going down that road as well. If others, as in the other townies like myself, had a case that I should hear, I wanted to hear it. But I am done with that logic now.
I definitely don't want to be lynching fellow blues. I am happy though that I can now target my top read.
I have to say I just think this is active townie going after active townie and I am not really happy to be lynching either one of you. Seppel's only downfall that I have noticed is his desire for the massclaim/nameclaim. And from what everyone has said, that is normal Seppel modgaming. I don't like it, but that does not mean that it's scummy.
As for Generic, the only knock against him is his aggro style. Again, from what people have said, this is normal for him as well. Again, not a warm and fuzzy style, but definitely does not mean scummy.
If we go down this 1 vs 1 road... I would love to hear what OTHERS have to say about each case
Hey, look, a scum post. Vote Huntzilla
I agree. He calls the back and fourth between headcase 1 and antagonizer 2 a town fight. Then sums it up that "if we go down this 1 vs 1 road" (meaning we lynch one) he wants to hear from others.
1- He's saying he's willing to lynch a townie.
2- He's calling out others so he can join a wagon and not be scrutinized for starting it.
3- I see this "OTHERS" as a flare to his scum mates to proceed here as Generic has giving them an in to start votes.
Lets put the pressure here guys.
I disliked the OTHERS thing at first but for a completely different reason: I thought it was Hunt calling out to town and trying to get a camouflage of townie votes. However, reviewing Hunt more thoroughly, I think this is legitimately his style. Calling for, essentially, "town camaraderie" is a thing some players do and in particular I see it from newer players, where more established players are confident (or perhaps arrogant) enough to just push their own reads.
What I don't like in the AE post is the "Lets put the pressure here guys". I would understand a reference to getting a lynch here, if he genuinely believes hunt is scum - but the reference to pressure strikes me as odd.
Azrael: I asked you a question, you haven't answered it yet.
Huntzilla: I think the above largely answers your question.
Wow, this is a huge stretch. I don't see him saying that he's willing to lynch Seppel or Generic. If anything, he wants us to consider not to lynch them and make our own cases in case we do instead of blindly following Generic / Seppel in theirs.
I don't see a plan to hop on one of the wagons in this post. What I see is him making sure no one does so just because Generic / Seppel ask for it.
Point 3 is therefor extremely far-fetched.
Stretch? Pay attention to his wording. It betrays his thought process. Rhand, he says they're town. Or rather thinks they are. Then finishes with "If we" which takes us to you talking about making our own cases. There's no need to make cases or ask for cases unless he wants to use that as a way to jump on a lynching wagon without any suspicion.
But he asks for cases IF we're going for the 1VS1. which I read as a plea to not jump on the 1vs1 unless there's a reason to do so. Which is a town mindset.
Then we respectively disagree. He shouldn't be asking for cases. There should be no IF in his thoughts.
What I don't like in the AE post is the "Lets put the pressure here guys". I would understand a reference to getting a lynch here, if he genuinely believes hunt is scum - but the reference to pressure strikes me as odd.
What I don't like in the AE post is the "Lets put the pressure here guys". I would understand a reference to getting a lynch here, if he genuinely believes hunt is scum - but the reference to pressure strikes me as odd.
But he asks for cases IF we're going for the 1VS1. which I read as a plea to not jump on the 1vs1 unless there's a reason to do so. Which is a town mindset.
@Azrael: do you agree completely with AE's assessment of that post?
Sort of.
[quiote]
I agree. He calls the back and fourth between headcase 1 and antagonizer 2 a town fight. Then sums it up that "if we go down this 1 vs 1 road" (meaning we lynch one) he wants to hear from others.
1- He's saying he's willing to lynch a townie.
2- He's calling out others so he can join a wagon and not be scrutinized for starting it.
3- I see this "OTHERS" as a flare to his scum mates to proceed here as Generic has giving them an in to start votes.
Lets put the pressure here guys.[/quote]
I don't think point #1 is quite right - I think he does regard them both as townies. But the way he talks about them, as townies, is a little off-putting to me. In points #2 and #3, the curiosity about others' stances, is what really sets me off in that post.
What the heck is this? I just get done saying I thought we were done our beef, and you go right back to it? Can you at least explain yourself instead of just voting blindly?
First, "our beef" was entirely one sided, so there's nothing for me to go back to. Second, you pointing it out as such is half the reason I voted you. This game is not "Hey, I think you're town, so you should think I'm town, too." If I think you're scum, then you know I'm town because you have the list.
You want more reasons than that? It's all in the post before the one I voted.
I mean you town clear Generic... After I state he is my biggest town read. So you agree with me, but I am scum.
This has nothing to do with my case on you. I just want to point this out to you since you're new. You can agree with a player and still think he's scum. Especially if that player is talking about a town read because the player is scum and would know who's town.
Likewise, you can think a player is town, but disagree with him because he can still be wrong. There have been games where I was read as town by 90% of the population, but no one was listening to my reads anyway.
I have been trying to move the town forward getting people involved in the discussion. Az has done nothing of the sort. Neither has Archmage. They have been lurking since day one, trying to vote me simply because I am a fresh player. Archmage is even vocal about that fact. Az, well, is probably just mad that I called him out too. But they are acting the most scummy. By far.
I don't read this as genuine at all. It sounds like an act.
emo_pinata has been quiet, but like I posted before, I generally like his content. His insights are usually pretty close to mine.
rhand has been quiet. He was justly critical of me at the start, but then came around and has been gone since.
I don't fully trust killjoy. but I think that may be a lingering feeling from reading Iji. He was really good scum in that game. So I am nervous to go one way or the other on him.
Plowshares has only posted a little. But I remember liking his analysis.
Same goes for Arianrhod.
Generic and Seppel are still both town for me. Generic more so, but both are still on the town spectrum for me.
Kamikaze has been non-existant this game. I am a little wary of this too. He's lower on my scale at this point.
Underlines added. Tons of doublespeak. Almost all of your reads are "town, but X" or "scum but X." You want give us a list of reads to look town but still leave room to jump on wagons of opportunity.
Lastly, Dechs and I have had our moment. But I think we have come to a mutual agreement that we both are town. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but for me Dechs is on the town side of things.
This just pissed me off. We didn't have any ******* moments. What mutual agreement? And what about me thinking you're town should make you think I'm town?
You're posting things specifically to appeal to other people. You think "if this guy knows I think he's town, he won't want to lynch me." You're too self aware.
I'mma hang you today.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
First, "our beef" was entirely one sided, so there's nothing for me to go back to. Second, you pointing it out as such is half the reason I voted you. This game is not "Hey, I think you're town, so you should think I'm town, too." If I think you're scum, then you know I'm town because you have the list.
You want more reasons than that? It's all in the post before the one I voted.
This has nothing to do with my case on you. I just want to point this out to you since you're new. You can agree with a player and still think he's scum. Especially if that player is talking about a town read because the player is scum and would know who's town.
Likewise, you can think a player is town, but disagree with him because he can still be wrong. There have been games where I was read as town by 90% of the population, but no one was listening to my reads anyway.Underlines added. Tons of doublespeak. Almost all of your reads are "town, but X" or "scum but X." You want give us a list of reads to look town but still leave room to jump on wagons of opportunity.
This just pissed me off. We didn't have any ******* moments. What mutual agreement? And what about me thinking you're town should make you think I'm town?
You're posting things specifically to appeal to other people. You think "if this guy knows I think he's town, he won't want to lynch me." You're too self aware.
I'mma hang you today.
I actually learned from this post, so for that, I thank you. I actually believed that the town would collectively work together in order to find scum. But what you are telling me is that I should just push my own agenda and not care what others think. I have to say, I did not come at this thinking selfishly. I mean, I thought this was a team game. I know you are going to push the point that no one knows the teams, aside from scum. But that's where I believed the town reads came in. The players that are collectively feeling like they are the town would work together with their reads. This is why I was pushing for reads back in the 1vs1 situation. I wanted to try and deflect the situation. I was not looking for other wagons to troll, as some of you believe. I was trying to work together. Now, for the self awareness. I am self aware, but definitely not in the way you are thinking. I am self conscious of my reads and the fact that the three of you are on me hard. I am self aware because of my newness, nothing else. Which leads me to my reads that you didn't like because they weren't definitive. That is because I don't have a lot on the others. I am not liking Az or AE. Those are my reads. Kami was the closest behind them, and he was a ways off.
But I believe that answer will just invite more rage from you.
I still feel like you at least are coming at me from a more townie perspective than Archmage.
I could care less about you being new. The rookie reference was in regards to Az not you. It was a play on words kind of thing, but if I have to explain it to you it loses it's zing. So tuck your newbie card in your back pocket and stop trying to hide behind it. That said, it deflates your thought process of me praying on you so try again.
OK so lets break this down.
You thought G/S was a bad idea? No, you said you think its active townies. That your not really(key word here) happy lynching either. If what your saying now is true, that Generic is one of your definite town reads. Then you would have said that and employed the town to look elsewhere because you have no interest in lynching them. If your not happy with the way the day was heading then take it upon yourself to steer it in another direction and not settle for the town to make cases on either of your town reads and lynch one of them. To settle on lynching so called townies because that's were it seems to be going is horrendous town play.
This last statement I really dislike. "If I were pushing for one of the two in the previous feud, I would have voted! But I didn't, I wanted to actually hear some others contribute to today".
No you weren't pushing, you were setting yourself up to jump on a wagon with your weak "I think" and "not really happy" choice of words.
Again, wasn't ever planning on lynching them. Wanted to hear more from everyone, especially outside from the Seppel/Generic duo. You are assuming incorrectly that I wanted to settle on them.
Did not want to set up to jump on a wagon. I wanted to get more talking going on. Which has happened by the way.
If you are trying to lynch me based on my choice of adverbs, we will be doing this all game then. I love adverbs, I use them continuously. You will find a really, a probably, and even a supposedly being used by me all the time. Seriously, get over it. Your weak stance is simply not working.
I disliked the OTHERS thing at first but for a completely different reason: I thought it was Hunt calling out to town and trying to get a camouflage of townie votes. However, reviewing Hunt more thoroughly, I think this is legitimately his style. Calling for, essentially, "town camaraderie" is a thing some players do and in particular I see it from newer players, where more established players are confident (or perhaps arrogant) enough to just push their own reads.
What I don't like in the AE post is the "Lets put the pressure here guys". I would understand a reference to getting a lynch here, if he genuinely believes hunt is scum - but the reference to pressure strikes me as odd.
Huntzilla: I think the above largely answers your question.
Thank you Kami. It does indeed answer the question.
And then Azrael comes in and compliments AE on his case full of stretch. I don't think they're buddies as this would be too obvious. I lean towards AE being misguided town and Azrael buddying scum. But the other way around also makes sense.
<snip>
Yeh it's full of newbishness.
Let's try this: imagine Hunt is indeed town and gets attacked by you and AE. Look at your posts and AE's posts from the eyes of a new town player and tell me that you wouldn't think that the two of you are buddies. I think new!town!Rhand from 2 years ago would've made an exact same post.
Two things.
The more I think about it, the more the first part makes sense. I feel like Az is coaching others to vote me versus actually telling everyone why they should vote me. This is weird to me, as it seems super scummy to be just pushing people to the wagon versus bringing people in with an actual case.
I don't like all of Archmage's reasons. But Az is the one feeling scummier to me this second.
UNVOTE, VOTE AZRAEL
The second thing is, has anyone actually answered this question at the end? Or was it supposed to be rhetorical?
I don't think point #1 is quite right - I think he does regard them both as townies. But the way he talks about them, as townies, is a little off-putting to me. In points #2 and #3, the curiosity about others' stances, is what really sets me off in that post.
What's wrong with being curious about others' stances?
This was the first time you voted me Archmage. This was back in RVS. The cute little banter quoted in there between you and Az is definitely screaming scum team winking at one another. I have asked you repeatedly why you were still voting me, and you have NEVER answered. I am thinking it's because you are a lazy scum and just left your vote on me until you could get a bus rolling. Your points as to why I am scum from the one post are twisted at best. Plus, you didn't let your little scumbuddy Az answer for himself. I asked HIM why. Not you. Thank you for confirming what was already bothering me though. I appreciate you making this easier for me and the rest of my townies. I am not scared of starting a wagon. I just did.
VOTE ARCHMAGE ETERNAL
What I was saying in the post in question was that Generic was hellbent and determined to be lynching Seppel, and Seppel seemed ready to be going down that road as well. If others, as in the other townies like myself, had a case that I should hear, I wanted to hear it. But I am done with that logic now.
I definitely don't want to be lynching fellow blues. I am happy though that I can now target my top read.
Tons of things wrong in this post, as well. 10 Az Points™ for whoever can spot 'em.
Yeh it's full of newbishness.
Let's try this: imagine Hunt is indeed town and gets attacked by you and AE. Look at your posts and AE's posts from the eyes of a new town player and tell me that you wouldn't think that the two of you are buddies. I think new!town!Rhand from 2 years ago would've made an exact same post.
Kami, I worded a comment that I read back and I mediately saw something that someone could exploit against me. I then baited it and waited to see who would bite. No one did. And no one has still seen what I saw so I'm expecting it to be used later to push on me, so let's see.
I'm jumping around when thing a catch my eye. The Azrael issue was a gut call and I find him self metaing something he is doing this game is a double bluff tactic. But I'm warning to him cos he is now scumhunting so maybe his sit back and not react style is working for him. Seppel I explained quite extensively. So what vote isnt making sense to you exactly, or is this just noise to show you are catching up?
What's your opinion on me vs seppel? Which is scum in your opinion? Both, one or none?
Is this all directed to Kami? Because I see an answer to my question in there, but it's in the same breath as the bolded and I don't think that's directed to me, is it?
First, "our beef" was entirely one sided, so there's nothing for me to go back to. Second, you pointing it out as such is half the reason I voted you. This game is not "Hey, I think you're town, so you should think I'm town, too." If I think you're scum, then you know I'm town because you have the list.
You want more reasons than that? It's all in the post before the one I voted.
This has nothing to do with my case on you. I just want to point this out to you since you're new. You can agree with a player and still think he's scum. Especially if that player is talking about a town read because the player is scum and would know who's town.
Likewise, you can think a player is town, but disagree with him because he can still be wrong. There have been games where I was read as town by 90% of the population, but no one was listening to my reads anyway.Underlines added. Tons of doublespeak. Almost all of your reads are "town, but X" or "scum but X." You want give us a list of reads to look town but still leave room to jump on wagons of opportunity.
This just pissed me off. We didn't have any ******* moments. What mutual agreement? And what about me thinking you're town should make you think I'm town?
You're posting things specifically to appeal to other people. You think "if this guy knows I think he's town, he won't want to lynch me." You're too self aware.
I'mma hang you today.
I actually learned from this post, so for that, I thank you. I actually believed that the town would collectively work together in order to find scum. But what you are telling me is that I should just push my own agenda and not care what others think. I have to say, I did not come at this thinking selfishly. I mean, I thought this was a team game. I know you are going to push the point that no one knows the teams, aside from scum. But that's where I believed the town reads came in. The players that are collectively feeling like they are the town would work together with their reads. This is why I was pushing for reads back in the 1vs1 situation. I wanted to try and deflect the situation. I was not looking for other wagons to troll, as some of you believe. I was trying to work together. Now, for the self awareness. I am self aware, but definitely not in the way you are thinking. I am self conscious of my reads and the fact that the three of you are on me hard. I am self aware because of my newness, nothing else. Which leads me to my reads that you didn't like because they weren't definitive. That is because I don't have a lot on the others. I am not liking Az or AE. Those are my reads. Kami was the closest behind them, and he was a ways off.
But I believe that answer will just invite more rage from you.
I still feel like you at least are coming at me from a more townie perspective than Archmage.
I like this post a lot. It's very genuine.
I don't think that Azrael's relatively quietness can be taken into account. The last time I played with Azrael (might've been the only time?), he was highly engaged and interested, posting regularly...and was scum. Unlike a lot of people on this site, I don't believe we can just go with "he's disinterested/detached therefore scum."
Not liking Dechs or AE at the moment. The emotion in Dechs's last post (that Huntzilla was quoting) seemed very out of place to me, in particular. AE is more of a gut read than anything else, but I've always been fairly good at reading AE, so I'm inclined to believe myself.
Hunt is Town, guys. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: He's posting like a kid in high school who just moved to a new town and is trying to fit in with the cool kids. The "slips" that have been brought up make more sense as such and not as scummy. I read no masking of intentions anywhere.
I dislike AE and Az buddying up like they have. It's almost assuredly because one of them is scum. But I'm pretty sure it's only one and not both. Two veterans teaming up on a new player seems kinda odd.
Rhand's answer does little to placate me. Rhand, how does whipping your vote around to three players inside of a day help to find scum? Spreading your pressure around only serves to weaken the individual attacks in my opinion.
I really like Generic.
I rather dislike Seppel.
Dechs's vote on Hunt is ridiculously bad. In post 173 he apologizes for not participating and says, "I have not seen anything that makes me want to move my vote." Then, 6.5 hours and 8 posts later, he unvotes and votes Hunt without explaining what changed from his earlier read on Hunt as simply "newb."
Hunt is Town, guys. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: He's posting like a kid in high school who just moved to a new town and is trying to fit in with the cool kids. The "slips" that have been brought up make more sense as such and not as scummy. I read no masking of intentions anywhere.
I dislike AE and Az buddying up like they have. It's almost assuredly because one of them is scum. But I'm pretty sure it's only one and not both. Two veterans teaming up on a new player seems kinda odd.
Rhand's answer does little to placate me. Rhand, how does whipping your vote around to three players inside of a day help to find scum? Spreading your pressure around only serves to weaken the individual attacks in my opinion.
I really like Generic.
I rather dislike Seppel.
Dechs's vote on Hunt is ridiculously bad. In post 173 he apologizes for not participating and says, "I have not seen anything that makes me want to move my vote." Then, 6.5 hours and 8 posts later, he unvotes and votes Hunt without explaining what changed from his earlier read on Hunt as simply "newb."
@Plow: in the early stages of the game that's how I play. I place my vote somewhere, look at the answer to my pressure and either pressure more if it looks like I'm on to something or move on and vote + pressure somewhere else if not.
I don't "spread my pressure". I keep it where I deem it most useful.
@Emo_pinata: I feel like you have been fairly quiet. What are your reads on the game at this time? One of the few games I read on the site was Iji Mafia... I have to say I agreed with your reads most of the way. Until the end there. But, C'est le vie....
I don't think Hunt and Seppel are similar at all, emo, and I don't like how you misrepping me by grouping my reads together.
Now this it some OMGUS you need to explain. How did I misrepresent your quote by simply removing the middle where you talked about Rhand? You literally said that Hunt and Seppel are both trying to appear town.
My Town-ish read on Hunt is in the feel of his posts. Yes, he is being very self-aware and he seems overly interested in how people think of him. But I read zero guile in them. Like I said before, it seems to me like he's more interested in making a good impression in his first game than trying to hide something.
So no reason. I know this is jumping around (and I didn't read the middle), but the most recent post as of my catching up is this:
Hunt is Town, guys. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate: He's posting like a kid in high school who just moved to a new town and is trying to fit in with the cool kids. The "slips" that have been brought up make more sense as such and not as scummy. I read no masking of intentions anywhere.
With nothing in between. Why are you so sure Hunt is town and why can't you elaborate beyond this "gut" feel?
Seppel is actively engaged in something that I find horribly unsportsmanlike (gaming the mod/game) and made a comment in post #47 about achieving "obvtown" status by of skirting the edge of Role PM Quoting. I don't think it would have achieved any such status, and would have come dangerously close to a mod kill.
So you are WIFOMing that scum would have more confidence in quoting a fake town role PM?
So to the rest of the game, choose either me or seppel. If you want cases feel free to ask. You can take the fact he needs a couple of you to hold below hand befor he can join my wagon as another example that this is t town seppel.
I have to say I just think this is active townie going after active townie and I am not really happy to be lynching either one of you. Seppel's only downfall that I have noticed is his desire for the massclaim/nameclaim. And from what everyone has said, that is normal Seppel modgaming. I don't like it, but that does not mean that it's scummy.
As for Generic, the only knock against him is his aggro style. Again, from what people have said, this is normal for him as well. Again, not a warm and fuzzy style, but definitely does not mean scummy.
If we go down this 1 vs 1 road... I would love to hear what OTHERS have to say about each case
Hey, look, a scum post. Vote Huntzilla
I agree. He calls the back and fourth between headcase 1 and antagonizer 2 a town fight. Then sums it up that "if we go down this 1 vs 1 road" (meaning we lynch one) he wants to hear from others.
1- He's saying he's willing to lynch a townie.
2- He's calling out others so he can join a wagon and not be scrutinized for starting it.
3- I see this "OTHERS" as a flare to his scum mates to proceed here as Generic has giving them an in to start votes.
I dislike AE and Az buddying up like they have. It's almost assuredly because one of them is scum. But I'm pretty sure it's only one and not both. Two veterans teaming up on a new player seems kinda odd.
Plowshares is sitting at an omnipotent view in his opinion on Huntzilla, Az, and AE. He is resolute in his defence of Hunt's townieness, but not counting points and casting shame against those vets willing to pressure the poor kid. He knows Hunt is town and wants us to know he knows.
This was the first time you voted me Archmage. This was back in RVS. The cute little banter quoted in there between you and Az is definitely screaming scum team winking at one another. I have asked you repeatedly why you were still voting me, and you have NEVER answered. I am thinking it's because you are a lazy scum and just left your vote on me until you could get a bus rolling. Your points as to why I am scum from the one post are twisted at best. Plus, you didn't let your little scumbuddy Az answer for himself. I asked HIM why. Not you. Thank you for confirming what was already bothering me though. I appreciate you making this easier for me and the rest of my townies. I am not scared of starting a wagon. I just did.
Explain why Az and AE would obviously push you in concert as scum.
I do see your point now that I shouldn't have given into letting the 1 vs 1 happen, however, that was really my being new stupidity. I assure you, I am town. Blue through and through. You on the other hand have seriously painted yourself a different color. The only person I am pushing for is you. If I were pushing for one of the two in the previous feud, I would have voted! But I didn't, I wanted to actually hear some others contribute to toDay.
This reads like bad Shonen. Are you for real with the dramatic dialogue?
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Now this it some OMGUS you need to explain. How did I misrepresent your quote by simply removing the middle where you talked about Rhand? You literally said that Hunt and Seppel are both trying to appear town.
I said nothing of the sort is my point. I said in this post that I thought Seppel was gaming the mod and Hunt seemed self-aware but innocent. How the hell you got "putting on airs" out of it is beyond me. The two reads are completely different. I read Seppel as trying to manipulate the game/mod for "Town points" and Hunt as just trying to fit in.
Why are you so sure Hunt is town and why can't you elaborate beyond this "gut" feel?
It's the feel of his posts. Self-awareness is usually a scum tell. This is so because scum are generally more hyper-aware of pressure on them and care more about how they look on the whole. The tell is a tell because of what's behind it and in this case I think what's behind it is actually the opposite. When you analyze the tell inside the context of a new player, you can see the tell differently. He's not hiding anything. His emotions are completely obvious in his posts. He just wants to fit in at the "big kids table" for lack of a better way of putting it. Therefore, his self-awareness is NOT a scum tell. He's just eager, that's all.
]So you are WIFOMing that scum would have more confidence in quoting a fake town role PM?
No, I'm saying that the "exploit" he "found" would not have given him, nor the other person, "obvtown" status as he so claimed. The fact that he seemed overly-eager to achieve said status on the basis of falsehood leaves me curious as to his motives.
Plowshares is sitting at an omnipotent view in his opinion on Huntzilla, Az, and AE. He is resolute in his defence of Hunt's townieness, but not counting points and casting shame against those vets willing to pressure the poor kid. He knows Hunt is town and wants us to know he knows.
Yes, I'm fairly certain Hunt is Town. Yes, I'm defending him. Yes, I'm calling out Az and AE for attacking him. Yes, I think the two of them, as veterans, should be able to read the same innocence in Hunt's posts that I do and find it odd they are attacking him the way they are. Where do you find a disconnect? Nice touch on the "omnipotent view" line, though. Push it in a little further.
@Generic: I just wondered if the bolded was a question for me. Your reaction is weird.
@Arian: what do you make of Azrael complimenting AE on that Hunt case?
Frankly, I don't know what to think of it. I don't like either of them currently, but it seems unlikely that two experienced, skilled players would buddy as scum. Then again, maybe they're buddying because it would be expected of them to bus one another as scum...which leads to WIFOM.
See me Tomorrow about interactions. For toDay, all I can do it note it down as being strange, but be pretty much forced to look at them individually. There's too many possibilities, and they're all nebulous at best.
Rhand, regarding azrael and AE... You are deeming azrael most likely scum, which I can see, but what's your take on Aas? Is his posting more in tone with town or scum? Because the bromance is the dichotomy im most confused by. And linking two unknowns isn't healthy but at the same time they seem to be inviting it:
AE seems to really believe his case. It seems likely that he really thought "gotcha" and still does. I think a town!AE and scum!Az situation is most likely here.
Az complimented him on the case without any additions, but now that I asked him about it, he doesn't agree with part of it.
I said nothing of the sort is my point. I said in this post that I thought Seppel was gaming the mod and Hunt seemed self-aware but innocent. How the hell you got "putting on airs" out of it is beyond me. The two reads are completely different. I read Seppel as trying to manipulate the game/mod for "Town points" and Hunt as just trying to fit in.
How is gaming the mod for "town points" different from just trying to fit in to appear town? You're not being even a little clear in your message.
It's the feel of his posts. Self-awareness is usually a scum tell. This is so because scum are generally more hyper-aware of pressure on them and care more about how they look on the whole. The tell is a tell because of what's behind it and in this case I think what's behind it is actually the opposite. When you analyze the tell inside the context of a new player, you can see the tell differently. He's not hiding anything. His emotions are completely obvious in his posts. He just wants to fit in at the "big kids table" for lack of a better way of putting it. Therefore, his self-awareness is NOT a scum tell. He's just eager, that's all.
So the answer is no, you cannot elaborate beyond gut feel.
Yes, I'm fairly certain Hunt is Town. Yes, I'm defending him. Yes, I'm calling out Az and AE for attacking him. Yes, I think the two of them, as veterans, should be able to read the same innocence in Hunt's posts that I do and find it odd they are attacking him the way they are. Where do you find a disconnect? Nice touch on the "omnipotent view" line, though. Push it in a little further.
Let's review your opinion on Hunt:
Hunt is self aware, a common scum trait
You see beyond this to his inner being and feel he is town anyways
Anyone with experience should have the same all-knowing opinion you do
I am speaking of your frame of reference, and mean "omniscient" not omnipotent. Your stance on Hunt comes from knowing he is town.
How is gaming the mod for "town points" different from just trying to fit in to appear town? You're not being even a little clear in your message.
Seppel is trying to, falsely, obtain the status of a confirmed Townie. The fact that he is trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he could town clear himself with modgaming is scummy.
Hunt is trying to PLAY THE GAME. He's not "trying to fit in to appear Town" he's simply trying to fit in.
So the answer is no, you cannot elaborate beyond gut feel.
If you can't see what I'm seeing, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't point to specifics outside of the "town cookie" instance I posted initially because it's the feel of the entire post that gives me the read I have.
Let's review your opinion on Hunt:
Hunt is self aware, a common scum trait
You see beyond this to his inner being and feel he is town anyways
Anyone with experience should have the same all-knowing opinion you do
I am speaking of your frame of reference, and mean "omniscient" not omnipotent. Your stance on Hunt comes from knowing he is town.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Aside from your over-dramatic use of "all-knowing," you're exactly right. I just got through explaining why the tell is a tell and why it doesn't apply here. My stance on Hunt comes from reading his posts and finding the emotion driving them. Keep pushing.
Plowshares is sitting at an omnipotent view in his opinion on Huntzilla, Az, and AE. He is resolute in his defence of Hunt's townieness, but not counting points and casting shame against those vets willing to pressure the poor kid. He knows Hunt is town and wants us to know he knows.
Explain why Az and AE would obviously push you in concert as scum.
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Stop, you're making me blush. Also, why is KA scum again?
First off, this post makes me add you to my column.
Second, I agree with your read on plowshares, there. The degree of confidence there was unsettling to me - Plowshares, do you ordinarily take really strong town reads this early in the game as town? Examples?
I'm keeping my cards close to the chest at the moment as regards to your other question.
I want to settle the azrael and AE dichotomy though. Does anyone in this game currently believe both are town?
I want everyone to answer in amongst anything else they may want to post, but gmdo you have AE AND azrael as town reads based on what you have seen?
I have no idea why you'd be trying to set up any kind of conclusion on AE and I as linked. AE and I have been playing games together for like...eight years. We have a history.
Beyond that, banter in general is a pretty null tell for A) Most every player ever B) Especially me.
So where did this idea that a couple comments of banter = linked alignments come from?
Seppel is trying to, falsely, obtain the status of a confirmed Townie. The fact that he is trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he could town clear himself with modgaming is scummy.
Aww, hell no.
Vote Plowshares
Quote from Plowshares »
Hunt is trying to PLAY THE GAME. He's not "trying to fit in to appear Town" he's simply trying to fit in.
The more I think about it, the more the first part makes sense. I feel like Az is coaching others to vote me versus actually telling everyone why they should vote me. This is weird to me, as it seems super scummy to be just pushing people to the wagon versus bringing people in with an actual case.
@Az: Yes. I tend to be very firm in reads, regardless of alignment (mine or theirs). I can't give you examples because this is only my second game in a few years, but I know they're there. And what do you not like about my Seppel statement? You think that he could modgame off of a single word difference in a flavor post that anyone could read regardless of alignment and town clear himself?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Az: Yes. I tend to be very firm in reads, regardless of alignment (mine or theirs). I can't give you examples because this is only my second game in a few years, but I know they're there. And what do you not like about my Seppel statement? You think that he could modgame off of a single word difference in a flavor post that anyone could read regardless of alignment and town clear himself?
Right, you're DKD. Welcome back, but I neither remember you being that decisive in your town reads, and the way you worded your allegation against Seppel rings all kinds of alarm bells for me:
Quote from Plowshares »
Seppel is trying to, falsely, obtain the status of a confirmed Townie. The fact that he is trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he could town clear himself with modgaming is scummy.
For one, you're assuming you're premise, which is all kinds of bad. I have zero reason to believe Seppel wouldn't try the exact same thing as town if he thought he could get away with it, and a fair amount of reasons to assume that he is MORE likely to do this kind of thing as town. In effect, you're attempting to turn an interaction which reasonably ought to yield us a potential town-cleared analyst, and flipping that information into an attempt to generate lynch interest. You're trying to both unclear AND to kill the person in this game who I consider one of our most likely and most effective townies.
For second, that last sentence is worded horribly. "The fact"? You're straining to establish as fact something that simply isn't. Manipulate everyone? Your language is too charged. But at the same time, the tone of your conclusion is very weak - you finish your post off with saying that what is ostensibly in your view a transparent ploy designed to falsely confirm himself, and you say..."is scummy".
I don't get the sense you're buying this. If it were coming from a townie, I'd expect this to be a case to be brimming with fear, paranoia, and/or the feeling that you were guarding the town from making a tragic mistake. Rather, the sense I get from your post is that you're trying to convince the town to swallow a completely bogus reason to unclear and kill one of its strongest players.
I believe you about Huntzilla, though. He's probably a townie you're defending for credit. At the very least, it's quite possible his self-consciousness and artificial style of posting is just a byproduct of his attempting to form a new mafia persona for himself. We'll see before long.
Now this it some OMGUS you need to explain. How did I misrepresent your quote by simply removing the middle where you talked about Rhand? You literally said that Hunt and Seppel are both trying to appear town.
I said nothing of the sort is my point. I said in this post that I thought Seppel was gaming the mod and Hunt seemed self-aware but innocent. How the hell you got "putting on airs" out of it is beyond me. The two reads are completely different. I read Seppel as trying to manipulate the game/mod for "Town points" and Hunt as just trying to fit in.
Why are you so sure Hunt is town and why can't you elaborate beyond this "gut" feel?
It's the feel of his posts. Self-awareness is usually a scum tell. This is so because scum are generally more hyper-aware of pressure on them and care more about how they look on the whole. The tell is a tell because of what's behind it and in this case I think what's behind it is actually the opposite. When you analyze the tell inside the context of a new player, you can see the tell differently. He's not hiding anything. His emotions are completely obvious in his posts. He just wants to fit in at the "big kids table" for lack of a better way of putting it. Therefore, his self-awareness is NOT a scum tell. He's just eager, that's all.
]So you are WIFOMing that scum would have more confidence in quoting a fake town role PM?
No, I'm saying that the "exploit" he "found" would not have given him, nor the other person, "obvtown" status as he so claimed. The fact that he seemed overly-eager to achieve said status on the basis of falsehood leaves me curious as to his motives.
Plowshares is sitting at an omnipotent view in his opinion on Huntzilla, Az, and AE. He is resolute in his defence of Hunt's townieness, but not counting points and casting shame against those vets willing to pressure the poor kid. He knows Hunt is town and wants us to know he knows.
Yes, I'm fairly certain Hunt is Town. Yes, I'm defending him. Yes, I'm calling out Az and AE for attacking him. Yes, I think the two of them, as veterans, should be able to read the same innocence in Hunt's posts that I do and find it odd they are attacking him the way they are. Where do you find a disconnect? Nice touch on the "omnipotent view" line, though. Push it in a little further.
This is a scumpost.
Dechs is scum also.
One of AE and Azrael is scum. I'm guessing AE because AE never types this much.
I don't like Generic either, but he's not as scummy as these guys.
Rhand, EP, Hunt, Killjoy, and Arian are town. Archon probably town.
Dechs's vote on Hunt is ridiculously bad. In post 173 he apologizes for not participating and says, "I have not seen anything that makes me want to move my vote." Then, 6.5 hours and 8 posts later, he unvotes and votes Hunt without explaining what changed from his earlier read on Hunt as simply "newb."
First, and this is really not in the game, but I appreciate you doing the possessive form of my name correctly. Every game, someone always types Dech's. Bugs the hell out of me.
Second, you had to have noticed the big post Hunt made between my two posts, right? The one where he was making up things that happened between us and how we had mutually agreed that we were town? The post I later quoted and made a case around?
I made the naked vote to see how he'd react. Then I cased it. Then you came along and said I never had reasons for my vote.
Yeah, nothing at the time of 173 made me think Hunt was scum. I didn't have him in town pile, but he was definitely ringing true as a newbie. The post he made after that pushed him from newbie null to newbie scum. His reactions afterwards didn't do much to help.
So, here's where I'm at. False dichotomy time!
1. Either you're scum and protecting your scum buddy Hunt with the newbie defense. Then, if we hang him and he flips scum, you can say "Oops, I was relying too much on the fact that he was a newbie.
2. You're scum and defending him because you know he's town. That way, if we hang him and he flips town, you can say "See, I knew it. +towncred for me."
Unvote Hunt
Vote Plowshares
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
The more I think about it, the more the first part makes sense. I feel like Az is coaching others to vote me versus actually telling everyone why they should vote me. This is weird to me, as it seems super scummy to be just pushing people to the wagon versus bringing people in with an actual case.
That's totally just an Az thing. I've learned a lot from him while he does this in games that I've been in with him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
There's a lot going on this game and I have not participated nearly enough around here. I want to apologize for that.
That said, I have not seen anything that makes me want to move my vote. Hunt pulled a stunt, but I just see it as a newbie thing. Az is too quiet, that's unlike what I know of him.
This is where I got the idea that you and I were good with one another. Then, eight posts later, you vote me out of nowhere. You claimed it was because of what I said in the post directly previous to the vote. Now you are saying I made the whole thing up? You are all over the place Dechs. You still obviously feel I am scum, but you abandon your vote on me. Coincidentally, Az also abandoned voting me for a second as well, also to vote for Plowshares.
Then you come back with that post defending Az's actions.
I am starting to believe I was wrong about AE.
UNVOTE
VOTE DECHS
That puts him at L-2 I believe. If I remember correctly from other games I read, that means Dechs should claim, correct?
I've been keeping an eye on Dechs, not quite what to make of him yet. I got the sense that he was trying to buddy me, but I haven't figured out whether it's town barning or scum buddying. I've been leaning slightly towards the latter.
Explain why Az and AE would obviously push you in concert as scum.
This reads like bad Shonen. Are you for real with the dramatic dialogue?
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Stop, you're making me blush. Also, why is KA scum again?
Because I am an easy target for them. Like sharks smelling blood in the water. Went into a feeding frenzy. I am definitely of the mindset now that it is one or the other, but not both. Dechs has overtaken the scum buddy role in my eyes. He seems to be mimicking everything Az does, which makes me lean that way.
I wish I knew what shonen was. I am real, I can tell you that much.
@EP: Az barely answered for that question, saying he was holding it close or something like that. AE ignored it. Do you feel satisfied by those responses?
I will refrain from the butt kissing. I did not mean to overstep bounds.
When I had made the Kami read, he was lurking hard, and his content was brief. Not a lot of long answers or info. Since then, he has posted a bit, and I am not feeling him as scum even a little bit. I have to eat crow on this one.
I could care less about you being new. The rookie reference was in regards to Az not you. It was a play on words kind of thing, but if I have to explain it to you it loses it's zing. So tuck your newbie card in your back pocket and stop trying to hide behind it. That said, it deflates your thought process of me praying on you so try again.
OK so lets break this down.
You thought G/S was a bad idea? No, you said you think its active townies. That your not really(key word here) happy lynching either. If what your saying now is true, that Generic is one of your definite town reads. Then you would have said that and employed the town to look elsewhere because you have no interest in lynching them. If your not happy with the way the day was heading then take it upon yourself to steer it in another direction and not settle for the town to make cases on either of your town reads and lynch one of them. To settle on lynching so called townies because that's were it seems to be going is horrendous town play.
This last statement I really dislike. "If I were pushing for one of the two in the previous feud, I would have voted! But I didn't, I wanted to actually hear some others contribute to today".
No you weren't pushing, you were setting yourself up to jump on a wagon with your weak "I think" and "not really happy" choice of words.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Huntzilla (3) - Archmage Eternal (19), Azrael (166), Dechs Kaison (181)
Dechs Kaison (2) - Seppel (185), Generic (186)
Generic (1) - Arianrhod (90)
Rhand (1) - Plowshares (129)
Plowshares (1) - emo_pinata (137)
Archmage Eternal (1) - Huntzilla (170)
Azrael (1) - Rhand (189)
Not Voting (2) - Kamikaze Archon (84), Killjoy (148)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Stretch? Pay attention to his wording. It betrays his thought process. Rhand, he says they're town. Or rather thinks they are. Then finishes with "If we" which takes us to you talking about making our own cases. There's no need to make cases or ask for cases unless he wants to use that as a way to jump on a lynching wagon without any suspicion.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
There is a TON of that, like 4 times in the same post at one point, but there's more to it than that. Look closer.
Since Seppel pointed out this little bit already.
But he asks for cases IF we're going for the 1VS1. which I read as a plea to not jump on the 1vs1 unless there's a reason to do so. Which is a town mindset.
@Azrael: do you agree completely with AE's assessment of that post?
First of all, you can't seriously think that quote, coming from Az, is a scum indicator. Second, immediately after calling for more votes on Az, you switch to Seppel. And then you switch to Dechs after Seppel votes him. Why?
I disliked the OTHERS thing at first but for a completely different reason: I thought it was Hunt calling out to town and trying to get a camouflage of townie votes. However, reviewing Hunt more thoroughly, I think this is legitimately his style. Calling for, essentially, "town camaraderie" is a thing some players do and in particular I see it from newer players, where more established players are confident (or perhaps arrogant) enough to just push their own reads.
What I don't like in the AE post is the "Lets put the pressure here guys". I would understand a reference to getting a lynch here, if he genuinely believes hunt is scum - but the reference to pressure strikes me as odd.
Azrael: I asked you a question, you haven't answered it yet.
Huntzilla: I think the above largely answers your question.
Then we respectively disagree. He shouldn't be asking for cases. There should be no IF in his thoughts.
What?? I just facepalmed.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Sort of.
[quiote]
I agree. He calls the back and fourth between headcase 1 and antagonizer 2 a town fight. Then sums it up that "if we go down this 1 vs 1 road" (meaning we lynch one) he wants to hear from others.
1- He's saying he's willing to lynch a townie.
2- He's calling out others so he can join a wagon and not be scrutinized for starting it.
3- I see this "OTHERS" as a flare to his scum mates to proceed here as Generic has giving them an in to start votes.
Lets put the pressure here guys.[/quote]
I don't think point #1 is quite right - I think he does regard them both as townies. But the way he talks about them, as townies, is a little off-putting to me. In points #2 and #3, the curiosity about others' stances, is what really sets me off in that post.
First, "our beef" was entirely one sided, so there's nothing for me to go back to. Second, you pointing it out as such is half the reason I voted you. This game is not "Hey, I think you're town, so you should think I'm town, too." If I think you're scum, then you know I'm town because you have the list.
You want more reasons than that? It's all in the post before the one I voted.
This has nothing to do with my case on you. I just want to point this out to you since you're new. You can agree with a player and still think he's scum. Especially if that player is talking about a town read because the player is scum and would know who's town.
Likewise, you can think a player is town, but disagree with him because he can still be wrong. There have been games where I was read as town by 90% of the population, but no one was listening to my reads anyway.
I don't read this as genuine at all. It sounds like an act.
Underlines added. Tons of doublespeak. Almost all of your reads are "town, but X" or "scum but X." You want give us a list of reads to look town but still leave room to jump on wagons of opportunity.
This just pissed me off. We didn't have any ******* moments. What mutual agreement? And what about me thinking you're town should make you think I'm town?
You're posting things specifically to appeal to other people. You think "if this guy knows I think he's town, he won't want to lynch me." You're too self aware.
I'mma hang you today.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I actually learned from this post, so for that, I thank you. I actually believed that the town would collectively work together in order to find scum. But what you are telling me is that I should just push my own agenda and not care what others think. I have to say, I did not come at this thinking selfishly. I mean, I thought this was a team game. I know you are going to push the point that no one knows the teams, aside from scum. But that's where I believed the town reads came in. The players that are collectively feeling like they are the town would work together with their reads. This is why I was pushing for reads back in the 1vs1 situation. I wanted to try and deflect the situation. I was not looking for other wagons to troll, as some of you believe. I was trying to work together. Now, for the self awareness. I am self aware, but definitely not in the way you are thinking. I am self conscious of my reads and the fact that the three of you are on me hard. I am self aware because of my newness, nothing else. Which leads me to my reads that you didn't like because they weren't definitive. That is because I don't have a lot on the others. I am not liking Az or AE. Those are my reads. Kami was the closest behind them, and he was a ways off.
But I believe that answer will just invite more rage from you.
I still feel like you at least are coming at me from a more townie perspective than Archmage.
Again, wasn't ever planning on lynching them. Wanted to hear more from everyone, especially outside from the Seppel/Generic duo. You are assuming incorrectly that I wanted to settle on them.
Did not want to set up to jump on a wagon. I wanted to get more talking going on. Which has happened by the way.
If you are trying to lynch me based on my choice of adverbs, we will be doing this all game then. I love adverbs, I use them continuously. You will find a really, a probably, and even a supposedly being used by me all the time. Seriously, get over it. Your weak stance is simply not working.
Thank you Kami. It does indeed answer the question.
Two things.
The more I think about it, the more the first part makes sense. I feel like Az is coaching others to vote me versus actually telling everyone why they should vote me. This is weird to me, as it seems super scummy to be just pushing people to the wagon versus bringing people in with an actual case.
I don't like all of Archmage's reasons. But Az is the one feeling scummier to me this second.
UNVOTE, VOTE AZRAEL
The second thing is, has anyone actually answered this question at the end? Or was it supposed to be rhetorical?
What's wrong with being curious about others' stances?
I asked you a question here too:
Is this all directed to Kami? Because I see an answer to my question in there, but it's in the same breath as the bolded and I don't think that's directed to me, is it?
I like this post a lot. It's very genuine.
I don't think that Azrael's relatively quietness can be taken into account. The last time I played with Azrael (might've been the only time?), he was highly engaged and interested, posting regularly...and was scum. Unlike a lot of people on this site, I don't believe we can just go with "he's disinterested/detached therefore scum."
Not liking Dechs or AE at the moment. The emotion in Dechs's last post (that Huntzilla was quoting) seemed very out of place to me, in particular. AE is more of a gut read than anything else, but I've always been fairly good at reading AE, so I'm inclined to believe myself.
Unvote. Vote Dechs.
@Arian: what do you make of Azrael complimenting AE on that Hunt case?
I dislike AE and Az buddying up like they have. It's almost assuredly because one of them is scum. But I'm pretty sure it's only one and not both. Two veterans teaming up on a new player seems kinda odd.
Rhand's answer does little to placate me. Rhand, how does whipping your vote around to three players inside of a day help to find scum? Spreading your pressure around only serves to weaken the individual attacks in my opinion.
I really like Generic.
I rather dislike Seppel.
Dechs's vote on Hunt is ridiculously bad. In post 173 he apologizes for not participating and says, "I have not seen anything that makes me want to move my vote." Then, 6.5 hours and 8 posts later, he unvotes and votes Hunt without explaining what changed from his earlier read on Hunt as simply "newb."
Unvote:Rhand, Vote:Dechs
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Unvote: Rhand, Vote: Dechs
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I don't "spread my pressure". I keep it where I deem it most useful.
You had a great thing going until these two lines. I almost unvoted.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Now this it some OMGUS you need to explain. How did I misrepresent your quote by simply removing the middle where you talked about Rhand? You literally said that Hunt and Seppel are both trying to appear town.
So no reason. I know this is jumping around (and I didn't read the middle), but the most recent post as of my catching up is this:
With nothing in between. Why are you so sure Hunt is town and why can't you elaborate beyond this "gut" feel?
So you are WIFOMing that scum would have more confidence in quoting a fake town role PM?
This is an entirely self aware post pushing for a distraction no one is interested in. What is missing in your life that you need my attention, son?
Plowshares is sitting at an omnipotent view in his opinion on Huntzilla, Az, and AE. He is resolute in his defence of Hunt's townieness, but not counting points and casting shame against those vets willing to pressure the poor kid. He knows Hunt is town and wants us to know he knows.
Explain why Az and AE would obviously push you in concert as scum.
This reads like bad Shonen. Are you for real with the dramatic dialogue?
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Stop, you're making me blush. Also, why is KA scum again?
I said nothing of the sort is my point. I said in this post that I thought Seppel was gaming the mod and Hunt seemed self-aware but innocent. How the hell you got "putting on airs" out of it is beyond me. The two reads are completely different. I read Seppel as trying to manipulate the game/mod for "Town points" and Hunt as just trying to fit in.
It's the feel of his posts. Self-awareness is usually a scum tell. This is so because scum are generally more hyper-aware of pressure on them and care more about how they look on the whole. The tell is a tell because of what's behind it and in this case I think what's behind it is actually the opposite. When you analyze the tell inside the context of a new player, you can see the tell differently. He's not hiding anything. His emotions are completely obvious in his posts. He just wants to fit in at the "big kids table" for lack of a better way of putting it. Therefore, his self-awareness is NOT a scum tell. He's just eager, that's all.
No, I'm saying that the "exploit" he "found" would not have given him, nor the other person, "obvtown" status as he so claimed. The fact that he seemed overly-eager to achieve said status on the basis of falsehood leaves me curious as to his motives.
Yes, I'm fairly certain Hunt is Town. Yes, I'm defending him. Yes, I'm calling out Az and AE for attacking him. Yes, I think the two of them, as veterans, should be able to read the same innocence in Hunt's posts that I do and find it odd they are attacking him the way they are. Where do you find a disconnect? Nice touch on the "omnipotent view" line, though. Push it in a little further.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Frankly, I don't know what to think of it. I don't like either of them currently, but it seems unlikely that two experienced, skilled players would buddy as scum. Then again, maybe they're buddying because it would be expected of them to bus one another as scum...which leads to WIFOM.
See me Tomorrow about interactions. For toDay, all I can do it note it down as being strange, but be pretty much forced to look at them individually. There's too many possibilities, and they're all nebulous at best.
AE seems to really believe his case. It seems likely that he really thought "gotcha" and still does. I think a town!AE and scum!Az situation is most likely here.
Az complimented him on the case without any additions, but now that I asked him about it, he doesn't agree with part of it.
Dechs Kaison (4) - Seppel (185), Generic (186), Arianrhod (211), Plowshares (216)
Huntzilla (3) - Archmage Eternal (19), Azrael (166), Dechs Kaison (181)
Azrael (2) - Rhand (189), Huntzilla (208)
Plowshares (1) - emo_pinata (137)
Not Voting (2) - Kamikaze Archon (84), Killjoy (148)
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
No, but I don't quite know which is which yet.
Seppel is trying to, falsely, obtain the status of a confirmed Townie. The fact that he is trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he could town clear himself with modgaming is scummy.
Hunt is trying to PLAY THE GAME. He's not "trying to fit in to appear Town" he's simply trying to fit in.
If you can't see what I'm seeing, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't point to specifics outside of the "town cookie" instance I posted initially because it's the feel of the entire post that gives me the read I have.
Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
First off, this post makes me add you to my column.
Second, I agree with your read on plowshares, there. The degree of confidence there was unsettling to me - Plowshares, do you ordinarily take really strong town reads this early in the game as town? Examples?
I'm keeping my cards close to the chest at the moment as regards to your other question.
I have no idea why you'd be trying to set up any kind of conclusion on AE and I as linked. AE and I have been playing games together for like...eight years. We have a history.
Beyond that, banter in general is a pretty null tell for A) Most every player ever B) Especially me.
So where did this idea that a couple comments of banter = linked alignments come from?
Aww, hell no.
Vote Plowshares
Thanks for the tip!
You're right. It's weird.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Right, you're DKD. Welcome back, but I neither remember you being that decisive in your town reads, and the way you worded your allegation against Seppel rings all kinds of alarm bells for me:
For one, you're assuming you're premise, which is all kinds of bad. I have zero reason to believe Seppel wouldn't try the exact same thing as town if he thought he could get away with it, and a fair amount of reasons to assume that he is MORE likely to do this kind of thing as town. In effect, you're attempting to turn an interaction which reasonably ought to yield us a potential town-cleared analyst, and flipping that information into an attempt to generate lynch interest. You're trying to both unclear AND to kill the person in this game who I consider one of our most likely and most effective townies.
For second, that last sentence is worded horribly. "The fact"? You're straining to establish as fact something that simply isn't. Manipulate everyone? Your language is too charged. But at the same time, the tone of your conclusion is very weak - you finish your post off with saying that what is ostensibly in your view a transparent ploy designed to falsely confirm himself, and you say..."is scummy".
I don't get the sense you're buying this. If it were coming from a townie, I'd expect this to be a case to be brimming with fear, paranoia, and/or the feeling that you were guarding the town from making a tragic mistake. Rather, the sense I get from your post is that you're trying to convince the town to swallow a completely bogus reason to unclear and kill one of its strongest players.
This is a scumpost.
Dechs is scum also.
One of AE and Azrael is scum. I'm guessing AE because AE never types this much.
I don't like Generic either, but he's not as scummy as these guys.
Rhand, EP, Hunt, Killjoy, and Arian are town. Archon probably town.
Oh, that's everyone. Neat.
Don't you get tired of saying this in like every game we play in? Or something of the ilk.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
First, and this is really not in the game, but I appreciate you doing the possessive form of my name correctly. Every game, someone always types Dech's. Bugs the hell out of me.
Second, you had to have noticed the big post Hunt made between my two posts, right? The one where he was making up things that happened between us and how we had mutually agreed that we were town? The post I later quoted and made a case around?
I made the naked vote to see how he'd react. Then I cased it. Then you came along and said I never had reasons for my vote.
Yeah, nothing at the time of 173 made me think Hunt was scum. I didn't have him in town pile, but he was definitely ringing true as a newbie. The post he made after that pushed him from newbie null to newbie scum. His reactions afterwards didn't do much to help.
So, here's where I'm at. False dichotomy time!
1. Either you're scum and protecting your scum buddy Hunt with the newbie defense. Then, if we hang him and he flips scum, you can say "Oops, I was relying too much on the fact that he was a newbie.
2. You're scum and defending him because you know he's town. That way, if we hang him and he flips town, you can say "See, I knew it. +towncred for me."
Unvote Hunt
Vote Plowshares
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
That's totally just an Az thing. I've learned a lot from him while he does this in games that I've been in with him.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
This is where I got the idea that you and I were good with one another. Then, eight posts later, you vote me out of nowhere. You claimed it was because of what I said in the post directly previous to the vote. Now you are saying I made the whole thing up? You are all over the place Dechs. You still obviously feel I am scum, but you abandon your vote on me. Coincidentally, Az also abandoned voting me for a second as well, also to vote for Plowshares.
Then you come back with that post defending Az's actions.
I am starting to believe I was wrong about AE.
UNVOTE
VOTE DECHS
That puts him at L-2 I believe. If I remember correctly from other games I read, that means Dechs should claim, correct?
I've been keeping an eye on Dechs, not quite what to make of him yet. I got the sense that he was trying to buddy me, but I haven't figured out whether it's town barning or scum buddying. I've been leaning slightly towards the latter.
Because I am an easy target for them. Like sharks smelling blood in the water. Went into a feeding frenzy. I am definitely of the mindset now that it is one or the other, but not both. Dechs has overtaken the scum buddy role in my eyes. He seems to be mimicking everything Az does, which makes me lean that way.
I wish I knew what shonen was. I am real, I can tell you that much.
@EP: Az barely answered for that question, saying he was holding it close or something like that. AE ignored it. Do you feel satisfied by those responses?
I will refrain from the butt kissing. I did not mean to overstep bounds.
When I had made the Kami read, he was lurking hard, and his content was brief. Not a lot of long answers or info. Since then, he has posted a bit, and I am not feeling him as scum even a little bit. I have to eat crow on this one.