KJ: I think Seppel is baiting. Can be both town and scum.
You however I don't like. You question Hunt, he gives you an awful answer and you don't bother to follow up?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I still have no idea what Az actually asked for. What knowledge/whose meta are we supposed to claim?
Yeah, like I said to Rhand, I like "The purpose is to simply move the game along." and "Just trying to interact and get some discussion rolling." in Hunt's answer. But the rest of it (along with a lot of what else he's done this game) has been a little self-concious.
My thought process is similar to Az in that I think Seppel seems hitman-y.
I think Seppel is just trying to prove we all start vanilla. I have a role and flavor name, but no ability until after I die.
By claiming our names? No. And I'm pretty sure the scum may not have known that was the case until you said that.
Rhand: I should also add something I thought I already made clear, but I looked back and never said it: When you asked me what I thought of his answer, that was the first time I looked at it. I was more concerned about what Seppel had at that moment.
Dechs: Are those your only two games? Also, considering I was intentially vague about what I was voting Seppel for, I doubt you voted him for the same reason. I think you're just barning me here. Please detail in as much detail as you can why you voted him. Aside from the bullying. I get that part.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Az answered for me the exact same way I would have. Those are my two most recent games, both of them I played with Az. Before those, I only have two other games on that site. Here they are:
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) I already told you that I used that very same tactic (push for a partial mass claim) as scum. I did it to appear more town, didn't expect anything to come out of it, and generally planned to just confuse everybody with the information that got out. I even offered up my own false claim right away to help it along, just like he did with his name, so of course his actions didn't sit right with me.
That alone wasn't enough for me to vote him. It just made me uneasy. Then came him being a bully about it (right after the initial push) which, as I said, sealed the deal. It struck me particularly that he jumped right into "Why are you afraid to reveal" so quickly, before anyone had a chance to talk about it. He wanted to get the claims rolling and rely on peer pressure to keep it going. That's not something you do as town.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Az answered for me the exact same way I would have. Those are my two most recent games, both of them I played with Az. Before those, I only have two other games on that site. Here they are:
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) I already told you that I used that very same tactic (push for a partial mass claim) as scum. I did it to appear more town, didn't expect anything to come out of it, and generally planned to just confuse everybody with the information that got out. I even offered up my own false claim right away to help it along, just like he did with his name, so of course his actions didn't sit right with me.
That alone wasn't enough for me to vote him. It just made me uneasy. Then came him being a bully about it (right after the initial push) which, as I said, sealed the deal. It struck me particularly that he jumped right into "Why are you afraid to reveal" so quickly, before anyone had a chance to talk about it. He wanted to get the claims rolling and rely on peer pressure to keep it going. That's not something you do as town.
Hm. Ok.
Why I voted him had to do with the massclaim-> nameclaim progression. It's a classic manipulation tactic.
Like, say you want $20 for lunch. Your dad won't give it to you. So you ask for something else. Let's exaggerate and say a pony. Then, when you ask for the 20, that seems a lot more reasonable. He is more likely to give you the 20 because he knows at least he doesn't have to give you the pony.
Same with Seppel. Seppel first proposes a mass fullclaim. Then, immediately after he asks for what he really wants: the nameclaim. He even pushes it saying "what can it hurt" and "Why are you afraid to claim your name".
There is no reason for Town to want this. Like I said earlier: He should be asking how it would help instead of asking how it can hurt. That isn't a townie mindset.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Huntzilla, imagine you are a squirrel. You have thirty nuts to spread between 4 trees, each of varying size, two of which will become inaccessible in winter...
My question is, who are your scumbuddies?
Rhand and Killjoy...
But on a serious note, how are you guys so sure I am scum already... I kinda feel like you are just ganging up on the new guy. It's my first game and I have been trying to be active and engaged. I apologize if you don't like my answers, but they are honest and straightforward. I guess we got out of RVS and down to business pretty fast in this game.
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) .
You are claiming to be what? A fisherman? Why else would you bold that? And why would you claim that so early?
Forgot to add that all of my votes have been jokes up to this point. But trying to mislynch a new player day one is classic scum tactics, so I have a few names popping up on my radar now.
Forgot to add that all of my votes have been jokes up to this point. But trying to mislynch a new player day one is classic scum tactics, so I have a few names popping up on my radar now.
Dumb question. What does a new player know about "classic scum" tactics?
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Az answered for me the exact same way I would have. Those are my two most recent games, both of them I played with Az. Before those, I only have two other games on that site. Here they are:
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) I already told you that I used that very same tactic (push for a partial mass claim) as scum. I did it to appear more town, didn't expect anything to come out of it, and generally planned to just confuse everybody with the information that got out. I even offered up my own false claim right away to help it along, just like he did with his name, so of course his actions didn't sit right with me.
That alone wasn't enough for me to vote him. It just made me uneasy. Then came him being a bully about it (right after the initial push) which, as I said, sealed the deal. It struck me particularly that he jumped right into "Why are you afraid to reveal" so quickly, before anyone had a chance to talk about it. He wanted to get the claims rolling and rely on peer pressure to keep it going. That's not something you do as town.
Hm. Ok.
Why I voted him had to do with the massclaim-> nameclaim progression. It's a classic manipulation tactic.
Like, say you want $20 for lunch. Your dad won't give it to you. So you ask for something else. Let's exaggerate and say a pony. Then, when you ask for the 20, that seems a lot more reasonable. He is more likely to give you the 20 because he knows at least he doesn't have to give you the pony.
Same with Seppel. Seppel first proposes a mass fullclaim. Then, immediately after he asks for what he really wants: the nameclaim. He even pushes it saying "what can it hurt" and "Why are you afraid to claim your name".
There is no reason for Town to want this. Like I said earlier: He should be asking how it would help instead of asking how it can hurt. That isn't a townie mindset.
There are several things I don't like about this.
"when I die and flip town, do X." That's a line that people say as town mid to late game. That is not a Day 1, page 3, sub-100 posts line. Also, that example sets my teeth on edge. You want to talk manipulation? You're more guilty of it so far than Seppel is.
The question you should be asking isn't what can it hurt, but how can it help? And afaict, it can't.
Killjoy seriously like 9 out of the past 10 games could have been town wins with a D1MC. The only exception is every Iso game ever.
Considering games are literally balanced around that, I doubt it.
Not really, it's actually one of the most commonly overlooked aspects in a game review. Most scum have scummy sounding roles or neutral roles; when was the last time you saw a red herring or a full setup where it's not at least obvious who one scum is from the roles alone?
The real question is what does Seppel have to gain when the setup basically says roles are both revealed in death and active after death? We know the scum's alignment by the time the scum knows their role.
I think Seppel is just trying to prove we all start vanilla. I have a role and flavor name, but no ability until after I die.
By claiming our names? No. And I'm pretty sure the scum may not have known that was the case until you said that.
Seppel is pushing for a mass claim, stepping down the push to a name claim does not mean that was his intention. I suspect #47 is what he wanted from the beginning of the exercise though. I think I know what he is getting at, but I also think he's wrong.
I'm disappointed that nobody has brought up the big difference in the town role PMs. Nobody even hinted about it except Rhand, and I'm not sure how much I trust Rhand.
We're losing time before a scum could PM the mod, requesting the difference, and the mod could reply back with an answer.
HURRY UP.
Killjoy is town. Either that or he's the ballsiest scum ever for trying to take me down so early.
Number 1, beig new into a game doesn't mean anything to me beyond if I see someone being a bit forced or playing on their newness I question it as possible new scum. If you don't want to be pressured or scrutinised, you have the wrong game, cos Mafia is nothing but that. You don't get a bye into day 2 because it's your first game.
And B... OMGUS? And talking about scum tactics? Thought you were new, and how unfair it was to pressure you in your first game.
Can't have your cake and eat it.
Generic
Number 1: I appreciate not cutting me any slack. It isn't that I don't want to be pressured, it just seems to have gone that route awful early in the game. I mean, page 2 and 3 and there are a few that jumped on the "down with huntzilla" bus pretty quickly. Not looking for a bye into day two. Just looking at the posts and coming to conclusions.
Number 2: Again, not unfair to pressure me. Premature maybe, but that's all I was getting at. And yes I am new. But new does not equal unprepared. I spent a good time, like I mentioned previously, watching forums on this site. I picked up on the lingo, I did some good old fashioned internet research, and spent some time on Epic Mafia in order to get used to roles. The roles were the thing I was the most nervous about, as I did not want to be the new guy Doc or Cop that goes and gets himself in trouble by saving a scum member or outing himself on day one in some kind of slip. I spent some time learning and getting familiar so that I could talk the talk.
Basically I have my GED in Mafia, and I came to MTGS to become a learned doctor.
Forgot to add that all of my votes have been jokes up to this point. But trying to mislynch a new player day one is classic scum tactics, so I have a few names popping up on my radar now.
Dumb question. What does a new player know about "classic scum" tactics?
See above, or, if it's tl/dr for you... I made sure I knew what I was doing before I joined a game. I wasn't going to come in here all doe eyed ready to get picked off. Am I a pro? No way... But you can learn the lingo and be prepared for Mafia.
Also Dechs, why did you ignore my question about your soft claim?
I'm disappointed that nobody has brought up the big difference in the town role PMs. Nobody even hinted about it except Rhand, and I'm not sure how much I trust Rhand.
We're losing time before a scum could PM the mod, requesting the difference, and the mod could reply back with an answer.
HURRY UP.
Seppel, I am not sure I follow what the difference might be. But are you looking simply for our names at this point, or full claim?
I think I see where you're going with this now that I've actually read the OP since Cythare updated it with flavor. There's something missing compared to the OP. I have [name], village [descriptor]. And that's it. I also had to clarify with the mod that I could in fact vote and post, since that line is omitted.
I'm also not going any further down this line of discussion because it's uncomfortably close to discussing PM formatting.
Seppel, why are you so certain that Killjoy is town? His snap-no to massclaim is suspicious to me, because as I thought about it, there isn't even anything to massclaim. The only reason not to massclaim is if you've got something to hide, from where I'm sitting.
Heh. Well, since you've raised the topic, Seppel, I've drawn a number of conclusions, but I think you're skirting closely enough to a mod-kill there that it's not safe to discuss them at this time. I see what you're pointing out, though.
AsianInvasion, Iso, and Prophylaxis have died. AsianInvasion was Almuk, village alchemist, Mass Deathbinder. Iso was Darium, village oracle, Mass Deathrolecop. Prophylaxis was Bragia, village witch, Town Mass Deathcop.
Cythare is Tamiyo, Neutral Planeswalker Extraordinaire! She has no abilities except to bear witness. She can't vote, can't be voted, and can't win. She also isn't a great writer. It's a good thing she's so great at science!
It's too goddamn obvious to just keep this stupid discussion up. The names in blue in the opening scene say "village" the name in green does not. The implication being that non-town roles don't have "village" written in their role PMs.
It's too obvious to prove anything, and there's no way it would provoke a modkill. It's just ******* dumb.
AsianInvasion was Almuk, village alchemist, Mass Deathbinder. Iso was Darium, village oracle, Mass Deathrolecop. Prophylaxis was Bragia, village witch, Town Mass Deathcop.
Cythare is Tamiyo, Neutral Planeswalker Extraordinaire!
Two of these things are not like the other two. Were Almuk and Iso supposed to be listed as townies, Cythare?
AsianInvasion was Almuk, village alchemist, Mass Deathbinder. Iso was Darium, village oracle, Mass Deathrolecop. Prophylaxis was Bragia, village witch, Town Mass Deathcop.
Cythare is Tamiyo, Neutral Planeswalker Extraordinaire!
Two of these things are not like the other two. Were Almuk and Iso supposed to be listed as townies, Cythare?
Yes. That was a formatting error and has been corrected in the OP. Daily votecount coming up soon.
A few things I dislike already.
Huntzilla and Seppel are mostly ignoring each other, despite being the two main topics of discussion.
emo_pinata is doing a lot of factual commenting and not commenting on alignments or asking scumhunting questions.
unvote
Generic, what was the purpose of your outburst to me earlier? Is there a joke I'm missing?
Outburst? Please do share. And be mindful that if you share something that is clearly a ridiculous statement in the RVS period, I will be ready to ***** slap you...
What the **** are you talking about, that's such ******* ***** I'm gonna make sure you burn in hell!
*end scene*
I can see it's ridiculous, I'm asking why you directed that to me in particular.
@Dechs: I am still waiting for you to answer my question. You have avoided it twice now. What is with the weird soft claim post you made?
@Rhand: What is your reasoning behind voting me again... you vaguely state you didn't like the answer, and then make some pot shots calling me stupid, but you basically just barn Generic. Can you elaborate for me?
@Generic: I want a town cookie. Kami gets one for not interacting with anyone really until the fourth page. I should get one for at least drumming up conversation, even if you didn't like the content or my responses.
We still haven't had a post from Plowshares have we?
@Arianrhod: Your posts have been the most townie to me. I can actually follow your logic and reasoning. Thank you for that.
@Kami: I have been pretty much ignoring Seppel because he has been on his quest for a massclaim. I am not behind claiming day 1, 4 pages in so I was letting him do his thing. It does have the added benefit of getting people to react and talk, so I guess it has it's place. I asked the clarifying question to him to see if he would have been okay with just flavor names. But... He wanted the whole thing, which the reason behind came to light afterward. Which brings me to what you just asked him....
And seppel is reaction fishing, considering he opened with a massclaim suggestion and then miraculously has been struck with a case of stupidity over the Opening posts revealing role information, I'm pitching he's either not paying too much attention or is scum. Either way means his vote carries no value to me.
Is there a game Seppel doesn't open with a mass claim or some plan to break the game? I'm very curious why you think he's doing something as dumb as gauging reactions.
Generic, I've played multiple other games with you. I know you're aggro as hell, but there's a difference between aggro and intentionally difficult. I'm fine with aggro, I just don't like intentional obtuseness. The former can generate useful reactions and reads, the latter just clutters the thread.
I don't see how being unfazed gets me town points here. How does that square with this:
And the fact everyone is being so nice to me in replies means one or two of you arent town who I have experience playing with/against.
Why does Seppel reaction fishing mean he's not paying attention or scum? Isn't reaction fishing exactly what you're doing?
I think I see where you're going with this now that I've actually read the OP since Cythare updated it with flavor. There's something missing compared to the OP. I have [name], village [descriptor]. And that's it. I also had to clarify with the mod that I could in fact vote and post, since that line is omitted.
I'm also not going any further down this line of discussion because it's uncomfortably close to discussing PM formatting.
Seppel, why are you so certain that Killjoy is town? His snap-no to massclaim is suspicious to me, because as I thought about it, there isn't even anything to massclaim. The only reason not to massclaim is if you've got something to hide, from where I'm sitting.
We don;t know what information the scum have, or have access to. Telling them our names could have, for instance, helped them craft a fakeclaim if their names are different in some way. And it's almost always a bad idea to haphazardly put info into the thread that does not reap some sort of reward. With a nameclaim now we gain nothing that we can use at this moment, whereas the scum might be able to use it now to their advantage. We just don't know. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
A few things I dislike already. Huntzilla and Seppel are mostly ignoring each other, despite being the two main topics of discussion.
emo_pinata is doing a lot of factual commenting and not commenting on alignments or asking scumhunting questions.
unvote
Generic, what was the purpose of your outburst to me earlier? Is there a joke I'm missing?
The bolded I agree on.
@Seppel: Actually, a massclaim in Iji2 would have killed scum. There were too many flavor ties that very few people were aware of, and those people (you were one) could have solved the game easily based on our claims.
Why is everyone so Seppel is baiting reactions? (Amusing anecdote: When reading that quesion in my head, I kept thinking "Seppel is bating. Reactions?" which I lol'd at.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) I already told you that I used that very same tactic (push for a partial mass claim) as scum. I did it to appear more town, didn't expect anything to come out of it, and generally planned to just confuse everybody with the information that got out. I even offered up my own false claim right away to help it along, just like he did with his name, so of course his actions didn't sit right with me.
The part I am asking about it the bolded part where you say "that's my job." It seems like an underhanded claim, stating that you are a fisherman or something. It came on the heels of Seppel asking massclaim. I was just interested in seeing if you actually were trying to slyly sneak in a job claim or not.
The purpose is to simply move the game along. We are still not really accomplishing much, as the game just began. Archmage called me scummy along with Seppel. I reacted with a lame vote, admittedly a terribly lame vote. If it makes you feel better, I will gladly unvote, as it is still awful early for me to have any REAL scum reads.
Unvote
Just trying to interact and get some discussion rolling. But I don't believe we have even had everyone post yet.
My thought process is similar to Az in that I think Seppel seems hitman-y.
Ehm I thought you thought he was scum?
Quote from KillJoy »
Rhand: I should also add something I thought I already made clear, but I looked back and never said it: When you asked me what I thought of his answer, that was the first time I looked at it. I was more concerned about what Seppel had at that moment.
Really? You ask someone a question and don't read the answer until poked to do so?
@Emo: I would answer your question but Seppel already did
@Seppel: Why would scum avoid pressure on you early game?
Number 2: Again, not unfair to pressure me. Premature maybe, but that's all I was getting at. And yes I am new. But new does not equal unprepared. I spent a good time, like I mentioned previously, watching forums on this site. I picked up on the lingo, I did some good old fashioned internet research, and spent some time on Epic Mafia in order to get used to roles. The roles were the thing I was the most nervous about, as I did not want to be the new guy Doc or Cop that goes and gets himself in trouble by saving a scum member or outing himself on day one in some kind of slip. I spent some time learning and getting familiar so that I could talk the talk.
I think I'm wrong about Hunt. There is no thought about 'what if I'm scum' at all in this. And it reads honest.
@Generic: stop saying what I think please. It hurts my brain.
Huntzilla, you can have kamis cookie since he doesn't want it, loving the energy and enthusiasm to get in people's faces, including mine.
Seppel, wanna tell me your case yet? Or are you hoping for a subsequent case to be possible? I could Omgus you with a vote if you like, I'm bored anyway.
Holy crap you're caring a lot about that vote.
My case is that I think you're just typing stuff because it's stuff to type. You're not scumhunting; you're just being aggressive.
@Generic: That I can follow your thought processes too well and that they most often mimic mine. Which scares me.
@Seppel: so because you think you have the reputation of tearing scum that attack you apart, you just assume that anyone trying so is town? I know what I'm gonna do next time I'm scum then lol.
But you carey on, I'm not overly bothered about being run up in this. Your current case on me is im not scum hunting in your opinion. Yet you have basically pushed for a massclaim on a shoddy premise built on a faulty reason to prove town.
Score one for the idiocy. Either that or you are deliberately wasting posts on stupid ideas to appear active. Which is what you are accusing me of... You are doing so well seppel, well done.
@Seppel: so because you think you have the reputation of tearing scum that attack you apart, you just assume that anyone trying so is town? I know what I'm gonna do next time I'm scum then lol.
Why would thinking along the same lines as me be an issue? I'm town, so unless you are trying to buddy up to me here it might mean we are both seeing similar issues with people, and there might be something to those issues.
It's not an issue. It's just strange. I can't remember it ever having happened before. I'm trying to get used to it
What's your opinion of seppel? Would his baseless threat to avoid anyone challenging him make him town because he claims to be able to tear apart scum, or perhaps simply mean he can be aggressive in a verbal war and therefore could be any alignment?
Cos you know I can dog fight as any alignment, doesn't make it either pro town or proof of a positive attitude. Difference is I can't help emotive play, even when I have tried to stay level headed I get carried away. Seppel has a strict set of rules and has proven he will hide behind format posts to make them devoid of tells. His claim to tear anyone apart means nothing. Maybe juliet will do it for him?
I'll complete my forming of an opinion on Seppel when he responds to me. As it is now, I can see him pull stuff like this from both alignments.
Why is everyone so Seppel is baiting reactions? (Amusing anecdote: When reading that quesion in my head, I kept thinking "Seppel is bating. Reactions?" which I lol'd at.
It seems like an underhanded claim, stating that you are a fisherman or something. It came on the heels of Seppel asking massclaim. I was just interested in seeing if you actually were trying to slyly sneak in a job claim or not.
If I were making a subtle claim like that, the whole point would be to do it without drawing attention. Something that could be used to tell all my fellow townies something without alerting the mafia to it. The last thing I'd want, if I were to do something like that, is have some newbie jump up and down asking about it repeatedly.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I knew what you would do seppel. Just like your brother does.
"See, that's a scum comment"
"He's reacted to my post like scum"
I have no need to stop posting ammo for you though because you won't get me lynched. And I love it when that happens. So you keep on trying and I will keep on scrutinising your motives til im sure one way or another. Cos you can be ***** town, I've seen it first hand at least twice.
But what would you like ME to deflect now? Your claim im not scumhunting and am being aimless when my pressure on Huntzilla gave me a town vibe, same with kami, and now my back and forth with you is forcing you to stay in the limelight. No hiding toDay sweet cheeks.
But enouth about me and you, let's talk about you. Still wanting the massclaim?
No, not enough about you. You don't refute that your post was scummy. You just complain that I called it scummy.
Why is everyone so Seppel is baiting reactions? (Amusing anecdote: When reading that quesion in my head, I kept thinking "Seppel is bating. Reactions?" which I lol'd at.
Does this really bother nobody else?
What about it bothers you? Also, why haven't you moved your vote since RVS?
You however I don't like. You question Hunt, he gives you an awful answer and you don't bother to follow up?
Why not add a line saying you don't like Hunt's answer?
I'm about 90% sure Seppel is scum. He's more important.
Yeah, like I said to Rhand, I like "The purpose is to simply move the game along." and "Just trying to interact and get some discussion rolling." in Hunt's answer. But the rest of it (along with a lot of what else he's done this game) has been a little self-concious.
My thought process is similar to Az in that I think Seppel seems hitman-y.
I dislike Az answering for Dechs.
Considering games are literally balanced around that, I doubt it.
Oh, so you were proposing an AE claims his name claim? No, I'm pretty sure you wanted a mass name claim. I'm curious as to why.
By claiming our names? No. And I'm pretty sure the scum may not have known that was the case until you said that.
Rhand: I should also add something I thought I already made clear, but I looked back and never said it: When you asked me what I thought of his answer, that was the first time I looked at it. I was more concerned about what Seppel had at that moment.
Dechs: Are those your only two games? Also, considering I was intentially vague about what I was voting Seppel for, I doubt you voted him for the same reason. I think you're just barning me here. Please detail in as much detail as you can why you voted him. Aside from the bullying. I get that part.
My first full game (town, and terrible at it):
http://diestoremoval.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=2762
My first game (replaced in as scum):
http://diestoremoval.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=2548
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way) I already told you that I used that very same tactic (push for a partial mass claim) as scum. I did it to appear more town, didn't expect anything to come out of it, and generally planned to just confuse everybody with the information that got out. I even offered up my own false claim right away to help it along, just like he did with his name, so of course his actions didn't sit right with me.
That alone wasn't enough for me to vote him. It just made me uneasy. Then came him being a bully about it (right after the initial push) which, as I said, sealed the deal. It struck me particularly that he jumped right into "Why are you afraid to reveal" so quickly, before anyone had a chance to talk about it. He wanted to get the claims rolling and rely on peer pressure to keep it going. That's not something you do as town.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Hm. Ok.
Why I voted him had to do with the massclaim-> nameclaim progression. It's a classic manipulation tactic.
Like, say you want $20 for lunch. Your dad won't give it to you. So you ask for something else. Let's exaggerate and say a pony. Then, when you ask for the 20, that seems a lot more reasonable. He is more likely to give you the 20 because he knows at least he doesn't have to give you the pony.
Same with Seppel. Seppel first proposes a mass fullclaim. Then, immediately after he asks for what he really wants: the nameclaim. He even pushes it saying "what can it hurt" and "Why are you afraid to claim your name".
There is no reason for Town to want this. Like I said earlier: He should be asking how it would help instead of asking how it can hurt. That isn't a townie mindset.
Rhand and Killjoy...
But on a serious note, how are you guys so sure I am scum already... I kinda feel like you are just ganging up on the new guy. It's my first game and I have been trying to be active and engaged. I apologize if you don't like my answers, but they are honest and straightforward. I guess we got out of RVS and down to business pretty fast in this game.
You are claiming to be what? A fisherman? Why else would you bold that? And why would you claim that so early?
Dumb question. What does a new player know about "classic scum" tactics?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Yes, that's town!Seppel.
There are several things I don't like about this.
"when I die and flip town, do X." That's a line that people say as town mid to late game. That is not a Day 1, page 3, sub-100 posts line. Also, that example sets my teeth on edge. You want to talk manipulation? You're more guilty of it so far than Seppel is.
What could he be baiting for?
Not really, it's actually one of the most commonly overlooked aspects in a game review. Most scum have scummy sounding roles or neutral roles; when was the last time you saw a red herring or a full setup where it's not at least obvious who one scum is from the roles alone?
The real question is what does Seppel have to gain when the setup basically says roles are both revealed in death and active after death? We know the scum's alignment by the time the scum knows their role.
Seppel is pushing for a mass claim, stepping down the push to a name claim does not mean that was his intention. I suspect #47 is what he wanted from the beginning of the exercise though. I think I know what he is getting at, but I also think he's wrong.
We're losing time before a scum could PM the mod, requesting the difference, and the mod could reply back with an answer.
HURRY UP.
Killjoy is town. Either that or he's the ballsiest scum ever for trying to take me down so early.
They're literally not.
Iso games (and basic games) are the only games I've ever seen where a massclaim would hurt the town.
Generic
Number 1: I appreciate not cutting me any slack. It isn't that I don't want to be pressured, it just seems to have gone that route awful early in the game. I mean, page 2 and 3 and there are a few that jumped on the "down with huntzilla" bus pretty quickly. Not looking for a bye into day two. Just looking at the posts and coming to conclusions.
Number 2: Again, not unfair to pressure me. Premature maybe, but that's all I was getting at. And yes I am new. But new does not equal unprepared. I spent a good time, like I mentioned previously, watching forums on this site. I picked up on the lingo, I did some good old fashioned internet research, and spent some time on Epic Mafia in order to get used to roles. The roles were the thing I was the most nervous about, as I did not want to be the new guy Doc or Cop that goes and gets himself in trouble by saving a scum member or outing himself on day one in some kind of slip. I spent some time learning and getting familiar so that I could talk the talk.
Basically I have my GED in Mafia, and I came to MTGS to become a learned doctor.
See above, or, if it's tl/dr for you... I made sure I knew what I was doing before I joined a game. I wasn't going to come in here all doe eyed ready to get picked off. Am I a pro? No way... But you can learn the lingo and be prepared for Mafia.
Also Dechs, why did you ignore my question about your soft claim?
Seppel, I am not sure I follow what the difference might be. But are you looking simply for our names at this point, or full claim?
I'm also not going any further down this line of discussion because it's uncomfortably close to discussing PM formatting.
Seppel, why are you so certain that Killjoy is town? His snap-no to massclaim is suspicious to me, because as I thought about it, there isn't even anything to massclaim. The only reason not to massclaim is if you've got something to hide, from where I'm sitting.
It's too obvious to prove anything, and there's no way it would provoke a modkill. It's just ******* dumb.
Two of these things are not like the other two. Were Almuk and Iso supposed to be listed as townies, Cythare?
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Huntzilla (3) - Archmage Eternal (19), Generic (52), Rhand (53)
Seppel (3) - Killjoy (34), Dechs Kaison (35), Azrael (42)
Generic (1) - Arianrhod (9)
Archmage Eternal (1) - KamikazeArchon (14)
KamikazeArchon (1) - Seppel (29)
If there are any errors in my votecounts, please let me know.
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Huntzilla and Seppel are mostly ignoring each other, despite being the two main topics of discussion.
emo_pinata is doing a lot of factual commenting and not commenting on alignments or asking scumhunting questions.
unvote
Generic, what was the purpose of your outburst to me earlier? Is there a joke I'm missing?
Who reads those things anyway?
Only everyone.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Seppel, reasoning?
@Rhand: What is your reasoning behind voting me again... you vaguely state you didn't like the answer, and then make some pot shots calling me stupid, but you basically just barn Generic. Can you elaborate for me?
@Generic: I want a town cookie. Kami gets one for not interacting with anyone really until the fourth page. I should get one for at least drumming up conversation, even if you didn't like the content or my responses.
We still haven't had a post from Plowshares have we?
@Arianrhod: Your posts have been the most townie to me. I can actually follow your logic and reasoning. Thank you for that.
@Kami: I have been pretty much ignoring Seppel because he has been on his quest for a massclaim. I am not behind claiming day 1, 4 pages in so I was letting him do his thing. It does have the added benefit of getting people to react and talk, so I guess it has it's place. I asked the clarifying question to him to see if he would have been okay with just flavor names. But... He wanted the whole thing, which the reason behind came to light afterward. Which brings me to what you just asked him....
@Seppel: Reasons behind voting Generic?
I don't see how being unfazed gets me town points here. How does that square with this:
Why does Seppel reaction fishing mean he's not paying attention or scum? Isn't reaction fishing exactly what you're doing?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
The bolded I agree on.
@Seppel: Actually, a massclaim in Iji2 would have killed scum. There were too many flavor ties that very few people were aware of, and those people (you were one) could have solved the game easily based on our claims.
Why is everyone so Seppel is baiting reactions? (Amusing anecdote: When reading that quesion in my head, I kept thinking "Seppel is bating. Reactions?" which I lol'd at.
It honestly could have been me misreading but...
The part I am asking about it the bolded part where you say "that's my job." It seems like an underhanded claim, stating that you are a fisherman or something. It came on the heels of Seppel asking massclaim. I was just interested in seeing if you actually were trying to slyly sneak in a job claim or not.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
@KillJoy:
Ehm I thought you thought he was scum?
Really? You ask someone a question and don't read the answer until poked to do so?
@Emo: I would answer your question but Seppel already did
@Seppel: Why would scum avoid pressure on you early game?
I think I'm wrong about Hunt. There is no thought about 'what if I'm scum' at all in this. And it reads honest.
@Generic: stop saying what I think please. It hurts my brain.
unvote, vote KillJoy
Holy crap you're caring a lot about that vote.
My case is that I think you're just typing stuff because it's stuff to type. You're not scumhunting; you're just being aggressive.
@Seppel: so because you think you have the reputation of tearing scum that attack you apart, you just assume that anyone trying so is town? I know what I'm gonna do next time I'm scum then lol.
Delicious deflection.
You're building your own case against yourself.
I'll see right through you.
Generic gets into arguments with people regardless of alignment. But when he's scum, he doesn't have a reason for doing it.
It's not an issue. It's just strange. I can't remember it ever having happened before. I'm trying to get used to it
I'll complete my forming of an opinion on Seppel when he responds to me. As it is now, I can see him pull stuff like this from both alignments.
But you clear KillJoy only based on that. What is it in his attack that makes you sure he's not scum?
Does this really bother nobody else?
If I were making a subtle claim like that, the whole point would be to do it without drawing attention. Something that could be used to tell all my fellow townies something without alerting the mafia to it. The last thing I'd want, if I were to do something like that, is have some newbie jump up and down asking about it repeatedly.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
No, not enough about you. You don't refute that your post was scummy. You just complain that I called it scummy.
Seppel (3) - Killjoy (34), Dechs Kaison (35), Azrael (42)
Generic (2) - Arianrhod (9), Seppel (92)
Huntzilla (1) - Archmage Eternal (19)
Killjoy (1) - Rhand (106)
Azrael (1) - Generic (109)
If there are any errors in my votecounts, please let me know.
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