* Niv's #50 is very telling. Notice how he asks everyone he adresses at least one question, apart from SNL. He sums up SNL's play without taking a stance on his alignment.
* TK's #58 makes him town. I don't see a buddy point out a so far overlooked thing.
* Niv's #59 makes me wary of Cyan.
* KJ's #60 has some Niv defence in it.
* Niv's #85 looks good for TK and bad for SNL and Karn (the sentence he votes in: he was on me, votes TK and names two others he doesn't like)
* Hawk's #87 doesn't look like scum-scum interaction with Niv.
* Niv's #106 confirms Hawk as town. SNL has suddenly disappeared from Niv's radar.
* Wheat's #134 looks bad. He starts his reaction to Niv with "I let it slide the first time because it wasn't addressed to me but now I'm not gonna." Knowing Niv is scum, this reads as avoiding to engage a buddy at first but feeling forced to when said buddy repeats his bad post.
* Niv's #190 probably means I'm wrong about Karn. (Karn: do stop going after Shock tho)
With how Antny's wagon formed, I think it's very well possible that there's no scum on it at all.
* Wheat's vote is good
* Generic immediately puts pressure on Antny and votes him later on
* Seppel is town
* Hunger's vote is good
* Cyan's vote is ok, although it's a bit weird that he /barns Hunger while that explanation had already been given by me
* TK is already cleared through Niv interactions
* Shockwave does the pro-town thing with his vote
* Hawk is already cleared through Niv interactions
Not on the wagon: Cantrip, KillJoy, SNL, Karn, Hans (Voxx)
I'm 100% sold on SNL.
Cantrip and Karn are probably town, so that leaves KillJoy and Voxx if the wagon is indeed all town.
If there is scum on the wagon, they should be among Wheat, Generic and Cyan.
My point is that usig a logic that makes no sense to anyone ( I haven't seen a site person back rhands logic, not even shockwave) Rhand has declared shockwave a firm townread only after the wagon began on shockwave. Tactical play to look town because he stopped a mislynch.
Add to that the day 1 antics I pointed of at great lengths, and looks like everyone giving me crap over that read migt just has to rethink how they dismiss me so easily.
Changing opinions is a town reaction, historically anyway.
But you know that, don't you.
This post is so bad. Not scummy, just bad.
I'd like you to reread Rhand and formulate a new opinion from scratch. What you're posting now is a mishmash of misinformation and tinfoil that detracts from the case on Rhand more than it helps.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I still agree that SNL looks scummy, I just didn't like the people on his wagon. I also don't believe he has posted in like a week. Starting to feel better about Rhand though and it's pretty clear the Shock wagon isn't happening with everyone calling him town, even though Rhand is the only one that's even attempted to give any real reasoning.
I can get behind an SNL wagon, but still waiting for Cyan to reply. I didn't like his last post.
How about you start by giving your analysis of Rhand. You want to come at me claiming I'm producing poor posts or confbias, how about you explain the town read that turns into a naked vote.
Cos whether people want to wagon me or ignore me they can't accuse me of not having presented reasons for my Rhand suspicion.
Rhand's a good mafia player but I think he's been put on edge by you and others constantly digging at him. His posting seemed decent in general, and having the fight with you helped to show that to me.
But then he made this really weird attack on Karn in 423. Now first off, I only remember Karn saying things I agree with this game and he's also having fun so he's incredibly town, so that throws up a warning flag. Second, the attack is *really* bad. Rhand, however, is not. Rhand is normally really damned good at mafia. So why would he make it?
If he's town, then pretty much the only thing I can guess is that he misinterpreted it; I seem to remember he had just a little trouble with English when he started here however long ago. But I don't really buy that, since I haven't seen any problems for probably over a year.
If he's scum, then he's seeing one of the only people in his camp possibly turn against him, and the paranoia sets in. Rhand's strength is in never being caught to begin with; he sneaks under people's radar when he's scum because he doesn't really do much to seem like a scum candidate.
Now I don't remember any games where Rhand was scum and people thought he was scum offhand, but I think I buy Rhand being good enough at being seen as town to be out of practice when he's under pressure. And in that light, I think the scum mentality makes sense.
And it also helps when I think back to your fight with Rhand, that I realize Rhand really didn't want anything to do with it at first; it was only you pushing it for multiple posts that made him give in. That in itself doesn't really contribute to Rhand being scum, but it *certainly* removes town credit.
@ Wheat: In my language, when you say someone is using excuses (the same word), it means you think he's lying and making stuff up. Which town doesn't do, so why would he accuse a townread of him of lying?
That was my reasoning on the Karn vote. Apparently it is incorrect, as my reread proves Karn town and no one else seems to understand the post that way.
I kinda want to lynch cantrip. He's interacted with people I mostly had as town (and generic so he might be town). Called Niv town and said the anty wagon was good to cover himself without voting anty.
I kinda want to lynch cantrip. He's interacted with people I mostly had as town (and generic so he might be town). Called Niv town and said the anty wagon was good to cover himself without voting anty.
Putting aside the frustration that real life is putting a severe crimp in my style, I can understand where you're coming from. Remind me again of your stance on Rhand?
Lynching me wouldn't be nearly as helpful as dayvigging me, but it also has potential. I don't *want* to be lynched, as I'm town, but I will say that I'll be an info lynch no matter what...just don't count on getting the information you think you'll get based on you thinking I'm scum.
I apologize again for my horrendous lack of activity. Despite being town, I'm scum in that aspect, and you lot shouldn't have to contend with that. I *think* my life is going to calm down a bit soon; if it doesn't, I may have to request replacement.
@ Wheat: In my language, when you say someone is using excuses (the same word), it means you think he's lying and making stuff up. Which town doesn't do, so why would he accuse a townread of him of lying?
That was my reasoning on the Karn vote. Apparently it is incorrect, as my reread proves Karn town and no one else seems to understand the post that way.
"Excuses" in this context approximately means "reasoning", at least that's how I read it. He was saying that your reasoning was terrible, more than anything else. Town can also have bad reasoning.
TK, what's your opinion of wheat? I had him on the radar as a Rhand scum buddy very early on but then it felt less likely as the game grew.
But his latest antics I have just highlighted makes me wonder about him.
I've had him as null early on, but I dislike his early votes toDay on Cyan and KillJoy. First, Cyan was because that was where he was heading yesterDay. Ok, I can get behind that. But then, his reason for voting KillJoy is because that's what he remembered his opinion being and that he wasn't ready to go after Cyan just yet. I tried to put myself in the mindset where I could vote someone without having looked back and made more sense of things, and I can't. It's irresponsible. I could understand if it was to pressure or it was a feeling that developed, but he says that KJ "is probably still scum" and saying that he remembers his opinion being that. It reads as if he just wants to make sure his vote is somewhere.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Kill Joy is town. Don't really agree with much he says, but derp town not paying attention to Seppel being dead is a thing.
TK is town. Niv interactions. Can't see them being scum together.
Hunger is town. Mindset is overwhelmingly from town perspective, figuring gamestate out.
Karn is probbbably town. Was more sure from D1 posts, some D2 things are eh.
Hawk is probably town. Hammerthings, and liked the way he reasoned through a few things. A little bit coasty outside of hammerthing, though. Minimal impact.
Cyan feels more like slightly apathetic Town!Cyan than manipulative Scum!Cyan.
Wheat is a light town read. Mostly reads genuine, but. Eh. Not as sold on it as reads above.
That leaves, uh.
Rhand
Generic
Cantripmancer
Selesnya New Life
Shockwave
2-3 scum in that cluster. gg no re.
Still don't know what I think of Rhand/Generic. If I had a daykill and was forced to use it on one of them, I think I'd use it on Rhand, though. Extremely unlikely that both are scum.
Cantrip has made nearly zero impact on me. Acceptable lynch via being Not Town.
Shockwave is hm. Half of his posts make me want to ram a lynch down his throat, the other half make me go like... "I can't see anyone posting this as town".
Which leaves my preferred lynch:
Vote: SNL
Completely fine with lynching based on Niv interactions alone. Coasty. Opportunistic. Probablyscum.
It's 1:30 am and I just re-read through the entire game, and my brain is leaking out of my ears.
Sleep time.
Ask me questions, or ask to clarify on town reads and I can. Just. The game was awfully empty for the length I read through. Was like 80% Rhand and Generic slapfighting, and some waiting around for Antny to show up. Very little actually happened, despite two scum being dead. Weird.
That's not exactly a collection of town reads voting SNL with me.
But I don't think there's anyone else I'd rather lynch.
My read on Shockwave is too conflicted to want to lynch him yet... probably.
Cyan and Killjoy feels like town on town.
I could maybe lynch Cantrip? But I think I'd rather he just...actually post something that makes an impact on me, and push something with conviction.
Rand is a maybe? I do think he's more likely to be scum than Generic, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't just a really annoying town on town slapfest. Because that never happens, amirite.
Muh.
Indecisive. The wagon on Antny being so easy and so...uncontested almost certainly means scum were fine with sacrificing him. Not sure how much concrete analysis can be gleaned from that kind of wagon.
I think I'm content with a SNL lynch, or at least claim, and go from there. The game just feels awfully stagnant - might go through and ask some people questions this weekend to try and solidify some thoughts.
But your whole reasoning was based on a language tell from Karn that I misinterpreted?
You even went out of your way to explain me how I should've read Karn's post, and yet you think I had a scum mindset in voting him?
But your whole reasoning was based on a language tell from Karn that I misinterpreted?
You even went out of your way to explain me how I should've read Karn's post, and yet you think I had a scum mindset in voting him?
I thought about it a bit more afterwards and came to the conclusion that your reaction still shows paranoia in the form of thinking you had lost an ally, even if it was misinterpreted (hell, probably *because* it was misinterpreted). If it was a town reaction, it would read more like trying to figure out why Karn would make such a post, and I just don't get that vibe from it. (I know you said that was indeed what you were doing but I still don't buy it).
Meh, read it like you want then. I reacted like I did because I thought I saw a huge red flag in Karn's post. If you can't step with me in that mindset, then you'll never going to be able to read me. I always do my scumhunting the direct way.
I am curious about the list myself, but along with the read reasons I would like to see what your thoughts of the Rhand wagon are. Why so bad in your opinion? I'm not claiming its great mind you, mainly curious.
I am curious about the list myself, but along with the read reasons I would like to see what your thoughts of the Rhand wagon are. Why so bad in your opinion? I'm not claiming its great mind you, mainly curious.
Rhand is unaligned with Niv by some of Niv's fist posts. Did no one seriously notice that?
I am curious about the list myself, but along with the read reasons I would like to see what your thoughts of the Rhand wagon are. Why so bad in your opinion? I'm not claiming its great mind you, mainly curious.
Rhand is unaligned with Niv by some of Niv's fist posts. Did no one seriously notice that?
He wasn't trying to solve the game at all. I've played with town!hans a lot, and I've never seen him do that. Add in that Voxx should be able to see SNL's towniness if I saw it from my skimming before replacing in and his waffling on the wagon because of the people already on it, and we ourselves a scum.
It seems like you are missing the word "have". So who thinks that this typo is because fulcrum was trying to respond quickly and who thinks fulcrum didn't edit the post because she doesn't have any reason to reread her thoughts.
Outdated Mafia Stats
* Niv's #50 is very telling. Notice how he asks everyone he adresses at least one question, apart from SNL. He sums up SNL's play without taking a stance on his alignment.
* TK's #58 makes him town. I don't see a buddy point out a so far overlooked thing.
* Niv's #59 makes me wary of Cyan.
* KJ's #60 has some Niv defence in it.
* Niv's #85 looks good for TK and bad for SNL and Karn (the sentence he votes in: he was on me, votes TK and names two others he doesn't like)
* Hawk's #87 doesn't look like scum-scum interaction with Niv.
* Niv's #106 confirms Hawk as town. SNL has suddenly disappeared from Niv's radar.
* Wheat's #134 looks bad. He starts his reaction to Niv with "I let it slide the first time because it wasn't addressed to me but now I'm not gonna." Knowing Niv is scum, this reads as avoiding to engage a buddy at first but feeling forced to when said buddy repeats his bad post.
* Niv's #190 probably means I'm wrong about Karn. (Karn: do stop going after Shock tho)
With how Antny's wagon formed, I think it's very well possible that there's no scum on it at all.
* Wheat's vote is good
* Generic immediately puts pressure on Antny and votes him later on
* Seppel is town
* Hunger's vote is good
* Cyan's vote is ok, although it's a bit weird that he /barns Hunger while that explanation had already been given by me
* TK is already cleared through Niv interactions
* Shockwave does the pro-town thing with his vote
* Hawk is already cleared through Niv interactions
Not on the wagon: Cantrip, KillJoy, SNL, Karn, Hans (Voxx)
I'm 100% sold on SNL.
Cantrip and Karn are probably town, so that leaves KillJoy and Voxx if the wagon is indeed all town.
If there is scum on the wagon, they should be among Wheat, Generic and Cyan.
T/S:
Town:
Shockwave (meta)
Hawk (Niv interactions, hammerer)
TK (Niv interactions)
Hunger (Antny vote, overall play)
Karn (Niv interactions)
lean town:
Cantrip (meta/gut: play feels different from RtR, and I did correctly read him as scum there)
null:
Cyan (I can't read cyan)
Wheat (Antny wagon starter is good. Niv interactions not good)
Voxx (Hans hardly posted)
lean scum:
Generic (his weird attack on me)
KillJoy (defending Niv)
scum:
SNL (Niv interactions)
vote SNL
What do you think of Cyan, who did exactly this?
This post is so bad. Not scummy, just bad.
I'd like you to reread Rhand and formulate a new opinion from scratch. What you're posting now is a mishmash of misinformation and tinfoil that detracts from the case on Rhand more than it helps.
But it should happen tomorrow, finally.
Sorry for the delay - I've been absurdly and unexpectedly busy.
Unvote
However, I'm not yet ready to vote. I want to reread Rhand's interactions to be sure.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I still think Shock is town.
Rhand: Why is Seppel Town?
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I can get behind an SNL wagon, but still waiting for Cyan to reply. I didn't like his last post.
Rhand's a good mafia player but I think he's been put on edge by you and others constantly digging at him. His posting seemed decent in general, and having the fight with you helped to show that to me.
But then he made this really weird attack on Karn in 423. Now first off, I only remember Karn saying things I agree with this game and he's also having fun so he's incredibly town, so that throws up a warning flag. Second, the attack is *really* bad. Rhand, however, is not. Rhand is normally really damned good at mafia. So why would he make it?
If he's town, then pretty much the only thing I can guess is that he misinterpreted it; I seem to remember he had just a little trouble with English when he started here however long ago. But I don't really buy that, since I haven't seen any problems for probably over a year.
If he's scum, then he's seeing one of the only people in his camp possibly turn against him, and the paranoia sets in. Rhand's strength is in never being caught to begin with; he sneaks under people's radar when he's scum because he doesn't really do much to seem like a scum candidate.
Now I don't remember any games where Rhand was scum and people thought he was scum offhand, but I think I buy Rhand being good enough at being seen as town to be out of practice when he's under pressure. And in that light, I think the scum mentality makes sense.
And it also helps when I think back to your fight with Rhand, that I realize Rhand really didn't want anything to do with it at first; it was only you pushing it for multiple posts that made him give in. That in itself doesn't really contribute to Rhand being scum, but it *certainly* removes town credit.
I showed you mine, you show me yours.
That was my reasoning on the Karn vote. Apparently it is incorrect, as my reread proves Karn town and no one else seems to understand the post that way.
Outdated Mafia Stats
(REDACTED)
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to burn.
Lynching me wouldn't be nearly as helpful as dayvigging me, but it also has potential. I don't *want* to be lynched, as I'm town, but I will say that I'll be an info lynch no matter what...just don't count on getting the information you think you'll get based on you thinking I'm scum.
I apologize again for my horrendous lack of activity. Despite being town, I'm scum in that aspect, and you lot shouldn't have to contend with that. I *think* my life is going to calm down a bit soon; if it doesn't, I may have to request replacement.
I will try to weigh in on other elements soon.
Vote: Rhand
I like this.
@Generic: Why are you voting Wheat?
SelesnyaNewLife has been prodded.
I will no longer be issuing prod warnings.
Any reason for that vote?
Have an hour or two free.
Reading through.
"Excuses" in this context approximately means "reasoning", at least that's how I read it. He was saying that your reasoning was terrible, more than anything else. Town can also have bad reasoning.
that's not what i meant when i said "no show me yours"
try again
I don't like this reaction at all. Feels forced.
I've had him as null early on, but I dislike his early votes toDay on Cyan and KillJoy. First, Cyan was because that was where he was heading yesterDay. Ok, I can get behind that. But then, his reason for voting KillJoy is because that's what he remembered his opinion being and that he wasn't ready to go after Cyan just yet. I tried to put myself in the mindset where I could vote someone without having looked back and made more sense of things, and I can't. It's irresponsible. I could understand if it was to pressure or it was a feeling that developed, but he says that KJ "is probably still scum" and saying that he remembers his opinion being that. It reads as if he just wants to make sure his vote is somewhere.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I'm caught up.
Kill Joy is town. Don't really agree with much he says, but derp town not paying attention to Seppel being dead is a thing.
TK is town. Niv interactions. Can't see them being scum together.
Hunger is town. Mindset is overwhelmingly from town perspective, figuring gamestate out.
Karn is probbbably town. Was more sure from D1 posts, some D2 things are eh.
Hawk is probably town. Hammerthings, and liked the way he reasoned through a few things. A little bit coasty outside of hammerthing, though. Minimal impact.
Cyan feels more like slightly apathetic Town!Cyan than manipulative Scum!Cyan.
Wheat is a light town read. Mostly reads genuine, but. Eh. Not as sold on it as reads above.
That leaves, uh.
Rhand
Generic
Cantripmancer
Selesnya New Life
Shockwave
2-3 scum in that cluster. gg no re.
Still don't know what I think of Rhand/Generic. If I had a daykill and was forced to use it on one of them, I think I'd use it on Rhand, though. Extremely unlikely that both are scum.
Cantrip has made nearly zero impact on me. Acceptable lynch via being Not Town.
Shockwave is hm. Half of his posts make me want to ram a lynch down his throat, the other half make me go like... "I can't see anyone posting this as town".
Which leaves my preferred lynch:
Vote: SNL
Completely fine with lynching based on Niv interactions alone. Coasty. Opportunistic. Probablyscum.
It's 1:30 am and I just re-read through the entire game, and my brain is leaking out of my ears.
Sleep time.
Ask me questions, or ask to clarify on town reads and I can. Just. The game was awfully empty for the length I read through. Was like 80% Rhand and Generic slapfighting, and some waiting around for Antny to show up. Very little actually happened, despite two scum being dead. Weird.
Generic (1): 7hawk77
Killjoy (1): Cyan
SelesnyaNewLife (4): Shockwave07, Rhand, Voxxicus, Generic
Shockwave07 (1): Hunger
Cyan (1): Killjoy
Rhand (3): SelesnyaNewLife, Wheat_Grinder, Sir Karn
Not voting (2): Cantripmancer, TK-421
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to burn. The deadline is 1600 EDT 5 July 2014.
That's not exactly a collection of town reads voting SNL with me.
But I don't think there's anyone else I'd rather lynch.
My read on Shockwave is too conflicted to want to lynch him yet... probably.
Cyan and Killjoy feels like town on town.
I could maybe lynch Cantrip? But I think I'd rather he just...actually post something that makes an impact on me, and push something with conviction.
Rand is a maybe? I do think he's more likely to be scum than Generic, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't just a really annoying town on town slapfest. Because that never happens, amirite.
Muh.
Indecisive. The wagon on Antny being so easy and so...uncontested almost certainly means scum were fine with sacrificing him. Not sure how much concrete analysis can be gleaned from that kind of wagon.
I think I'm content with a SNL lynch, or at least claim, and go from there. The game just feels awfully stagnant - might go through and ask some people questions this weekend to try and solidify some thoughts.
Because you're still scum.
You even went out of your way to explain me how I should've read Karn's post, and yet you think I had a scum mindset in voting him?
I thought about it a bit more afterwards and came to the conclusion that your reaction still shows paranoia in the form of thinking you had lost an ally, even if it was misinterpreted (hell, probably *because* it was misinterpreted). If it was a town reaction, it would read more like trying to figure out why Karn would make such a post, and I just don't get that vibe from it. (I know you said that was indeed what you were doing but I still don't buy it).
Read my original question to Karn again then:
Isn't that trying to figure out why Karn made that post?
It reads more like paranoia about having lost a supporter.
The Rhand wagon is terrible too. The **** is going on?
Seppel
fulcrum
Rhand
7hawk77
TK-421
Hunger
Shockwave07
Generic
Sir Karn
Cantripmancer
Cyan
Killjoy
Wheat_Grinder
Voxxicus
Niv
Antny
Vote Voxxicus
Hello scum.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Outdated Mafia Stats
Rhand is unaligned with Niv by some of Niv's fist posts. Did no one seriously notice that?
Yep.
You missed one:
Outdated Mafia Stats