MTG Salvation

I'd also like to request that I be removed from probation

I'm still in favor.

Also motioning for removal of Proph and Megiddo from Probation.

Blacklist seems incredibly extreme. Is there any reason you aren't starting with probation, if anything?

Perhaps a temporary blacklist period for him to cool off, something in the nature of three to six months depending on the severity of the conduct?

Links to the offending behaviors?

No objections to removals of Annorax, Proph, and Megs.

I'm not a big fan of TS's playstyle, but having just now read the offensive posts from Star Trek, I agree that blacklisting is extreme. I think a 3 month suspension at most would be advisable.

Quote from Ecophagy »

I'm sure many of you have noticed that the queues for both Minis and Normals are dangerously short. I'd like to run a PCQ-style open entry thing (separately for each queue) where people submit setups, we work together to get them built and reviewed, winners chosen by a combination of popular vote and judge panel, with all the games added to the respective queues with winners at the top. I believe this is a good way to encourage people to turn their ideas into completed games, spread cooperation, and generate some hype: all of which we sorely need.

What does everyone think about that?

Sounds good. I've got a few ideas I've been kicking around - if the queues are that short, should I wait until this gets going or submit directly to the queue? I'm still in drafting stages, so it'll be a little while before I'm ready for review.

Quote from Azrael »

Perhaps a temporary blacklist period for him to cool off, something in the nature of three to six months depending on the severity of the conduct?

Links to the offending behaviors?

No objections to removals of Annorax, Proph, and Megs.

Quote from Xyre »

I'm not a big fan of TS's playstyle, but having just now read the offensive posts from Star Trek, I agree that blacklisting is extreme. I think a 3 month suspension at most would be advisable.

What they said.

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

Blacklist seems incredibly extreme. Is there any reason you aren't starting with probation, if anything?

He did this in multiple games. Had it just been my game, I'd have started with a motion for probation. This goes a bit beyond though & shows a lack of desire to actually interact and play the game in a civil manner. The stuff he was doing was downright toxic & I'd prefer that not to have a chance to happen again.

I had private complaints from many people - at least half a dozen - about his behavior in games and witnessed many people opt not to play in games just because of the effect they felt he had on them.

Ooof.

Either way don't feel my vote will change things and if there are enough players voicing their opinions against him there must be something done, no denying that.

I was just hoping to get a chance to play with him down the road. He seemed he had some mafia smarts, and only saw part of what happened in STMU 4. Truthfully, I feel I've gotten close to that with some of my past games, even if I can't think of where.

Either way, this choice is in the hands of the council.

Quote from Annorax »

Quote from Gentleman Johnny »

Blacklist seems incredibly extreme. Is there any reason you aren't starting with probation, if anything?

He did this in multiple games. Had it just been my game, I'd have started with a motion for probation. This goes a bit beyond though & shows a lack of desire to actually interact and play the game in a civil manner. The stuff he was doing was downright toxic & I'd prefer that not to have a chance to happen again.

Has he been reprimanded in each of those games? Because if he hasn't, I don't know why you would have expected the behavior to change. Yes, he is a bit abrasive, but if I was a newcomer to mafia, I would be more alarmed about the large amount of replacements, than I would have been of TS's behavior. Unless you want to link to specifics, the only one I could find was a public troll warning by Proph that warranted any moderator action, and even that was a bit of a stretch.

Quote from Iso »

I had private complaints from many people - at least half a dozen - about his behavior in games and witnessed many people opt not to play in games just because of the effect they felt he had on them.

And if we blacklisted every player who made another player(s) decide against joining a game, half the remaining players would be out on their ass (myself included).

I think you're underestimating the level of toxicity that TS brought into games, and the overwhelming number of people he made feel that way.

Like, 2 or 3 people I could understand where you're coming from with.

But 6-10+?

And when games simply won't fill because a single player has signed up for them, what does that tell you?

Quote from Iso »

I think you're underestimating the level of toxicity that TS brought into games, and the overwhelming number of people he made feel that way.

Like, 2 or 3 people I could understand where you're coming from with.

But 6-10+?

And when games simply won't fill because a single player has signed up for them, what does that tell you?

And unless you confronted him before this and he continued the behavior, I feel blacklisting is too extreme. I would start with probation, and see what happens afterwards.

I had spoken to him privately at least twice about inciting people.

Do whatever you want then. I still strongly suggest you start with probation. His behavior might have problems, but he is hardly alone in that regard. As a former moderator, I strongly advise skipping a probation period to go straight to blacklisting.

Since TS is currently taking a leave of absence from the forum, stiff punishment is kind of unnecessary. I totally support probation, and can get behind a temporary blacklist as a message that toxic behaviour will not be tolerated. If and when TS returns to us, we will have a discussion with him to make sure he understands the consequences of his behaviour, and keep him on probation until he demonstrates a willingness to play civilly.

Quote from Ecophagy »

Since TS is currently taking a leave of absence from the forum, stiff punishment is kind of unnecessary. I totally support probation, and can get behind a temporary blacklist as a message that toxic behaviour will not be tolerated. If and when TS returns to us, we will have a discussion with him to make sure he understands the consequences of his behaviour, and keep him on probation until he demonstrates a willingness to play civilly.

I have already retired from playing Mafia on this site. The modding has driven plenty of people away from here for years. I tried to not let it bother me but it gets to a point where a player just goes and plays in a less toxic environment.

Iso played with me in my first ever Mafia game and his play was so toxic he had to remove himself from Mafia, self-probation whatever you want to call it. There were no less than three players in that one game who called him out for his extreme and toxic behavior. For him to try and "join the wagon" here is pretty sad behavior.

Proph gave me a violation for a post that was perfectly fine. I even found and quoted to him a post made in the same game which was word for word identical with my post that had no infraction, when asked why he didn't infract identical posts he said because mine had an emoti. That was his defense. From the beginning, it was clear that he was going through the game flagging posts to build up to get me a suspension.

There are plenty of players here that enjoy playing with me, hopefully they link up with me again at the more active Mafia platforms where I've been having a really great time. Out of respect for the declining numbers here I won't name the sites and I've already went out of my way to give some feedback on why players don't like playing here, that was months ago, nothing has changed. there was a lot of talk by moderation, but same old same old.

The time controls lead to the few active people running in circles and frustrations can flare up when the same points get hammered over and over, frustrations with constant replacements, frustrations with the lurking which doesn't exist in the manner it does here on any of the other three sites I've checked out.

If iso is on the bandwagon for a TS ban than I'm sure he'll find a way to get it but it's more spite on his part than anything else. I've retired from here. For those that want to find me to play out some games in the future just shoot me a PM.

Thanks for reminding the community why you're awful to play with.

I'm still firmly of the opinion that "having a bad personality" is not ever a justification for permanent blacklisting. I think that option should be reserved for deliberate sabotage of games, repeated serious rules violations, or issues related to banning from MTGS as a whole. Nothing he's done has come close to that.

In that event, since the blacklist is uncontested and we've received multiple complaints, I'll institute a six month temp-ban in case TS changes his position.

I mean, we can already view the entirety of a single user's posts in a thread with the search function. Curse has expressed little interest in adding things to the layout that would only be of particular benefit in one area of the site. Can you come up with some reasons for how this would be useful for the rest of the site in a functional manner?

Not trying to shoot you down, just giving you the response I've gotten a dozen times, myself - your feedback is appreciated.

At the top of each thread there's a search button, but it really opens a drop down menu where you can click "Search this thread" then put the player's name in the "By author" box and hit go.

Or, from the thread list, you can click the post count of a thread to get a page with each poster in the thread and their post counts. The post counts on that page are links to the search you would get from doing the above.

If that's confusing, let me know and I'll try to rephrase.

So, a problem that would have been inconceivable in the past: we've gone from having ridiculously long queues, to actually being short on setups. Right now, we're almost out of mini setups, and we're actually completely out of micro setups to run. So, if anyone wants to both help out the community and get the chance to host their game pretty much instantly, now's your shot.

I'll try to come up with a Micro soon, and I have a Mini in the wings.

Announcing! MTGS Mafia now has a Discord community! For those that don't know, Dicsord is a mix of Skype, IRC, and Teamspeak, combining public text and voice channels with the option for private comms as well. The idea is to use it as a tool for community integration both as a functional replacement for the clan thread, as well as a place to have informal Mafia-related discussion. We'll also be using it to post announcements like when signups go up, so you won't even have to log into the forum to keep track of things!

To try it out, click here: https://discord.gg/vhbtZak There is an app you can download if you want, but it works fine in a browser. Spread this link to anyone you know who plays, even if they're not active any more. The busier we can get it, the more we can bring our community together and grow it!

Hello!

It has recently come to our attention that people have become somewhat disgruntled with the multiposting rules in Mafia.

While cards will still be issued for spam and excessive multiposting, there is no longer a hard limit of 3 consecutive posts by any user in a game. This rule was put into place to protect the sanctity of our games from degenerating into unreadable spamfests.

Instead, the mods will now be examining multiposting on a case-by-case basis to allow for more flexibility in posting style and certain game circumstances.


Cheers,

The MTGS Staff

1) Normal
2 I like the approach last year used
3) 2-3 weeks, 48 hours Night is fine.
4) N/A

Basically everything Eco said I agree with. No reason to get too fancy. Just traditional mafia.

I'll third what Eco said.

Since Arcwind is a newer player and quickly rectified his mistake, I think a slap on the wrist and an angry glowering are sufficient. Was his cryptoclaim a direct role PM quote? If so, I could get behind a retroactive modkilling so that it doesn't count for his records, but that aside, I don't think this merits action on the Council's behalf.

Greetings from One Card Down in the Deck,

It's been over a year since I've darkened your doors, and I may just need to come back for Iso's Avalon Mafia, if he'll have me, but, since it's been a year, I wanted to say "Hi" and ask for a general summary of the last year in this forum: rules updates, changes, state of the forum, etc. I see that the League went defunct shortly after I left... What else has changed?

Cheers!

We now have a community Discord (which is like IRC + Teamspeak) at https://discord.gg/vhbtZak where you should totally come hang out with all the cool people!

Thanks to both of you.

I am recommending that Azrael be placed on probation as a game mod for having a bastard role in a non-bastard game.

Quote from Tordeck »

I am recommending that Azrael be placed on probation as a game mod for having a bastard role in a non-bastard game.

Going to suggest we save this until the game in question is still ongoing. Alternatively we can discuss it via PM with council members who are not involved (which would be Zionite and myself).

I am fine with either.

Regarding trust tells: Am I allowed to vote people for voting me after I've claimed VT for the reason of them pushing me when I know they know I'm town at that point? Because I don't think I know how to argue that without pulling the trust tell into it, but it's still an entirely legitimate reason to be scumreading somebody as it's an in-game reaction to something I've done that pertains to my meta.

Quote from Iso »

Regarding trust tells: Am I allowed to vote people for voting me after I've claimed VT for the reason of them pushing me when I know they know I'm town at that point? Because I don't think I know how to argue that without pulling the trust tell into it, but it's still an entirely legitimate reason to be scumreading somebody as it's an in-game reaction to something I've done that pertains to my meta.

No. That's still utilising the trust tell, because it requires the statement "Iso never lies when claiming VT" to still be true. The simple fact is that a VT claim from you cannot be treated as any different to a VT claim from anyone else. No hints, no redacting, no loopholes.

100% agree Trust Tells should be forbidden, and a modkillable offence. I looked back through this thread, and we did discuss them way back in 2012 (#5806 ish). I don't think we ever formally outlawed them (since other drama was happening at the time), but the general consensus was that using them is cheap and very much against the spirit of the game.