Sure, have at it - then if the trend continues from before, where larger games are still unable to fill at a reasonable pace, can we go back to the previous method, or change the queue to size-based games?
Personally, I'd be fine erasing the "normals" distinction, making us essentially size-based plus constant PCQ, but I understand that there's some strong minority opposition to moving in that direction re: Normals.
Larger issue is that going back to our present system doesn't address the issue of large games not filling. Well, it addresses THAT issue, but not the catastrophic side effects of simply bludgeoning the playerbase into getting enough people to fire a game of a type that's clearly not in demand, before they can get to playing the games that ARE in demand, and that would help the sub grow.
Our focus has to be on what's going to grow the sub and keep it healthy, above all else. Our queue system has to adapt to serve those priorities, not vice versa.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I always assumed that it should be stacking order of what type of setup finished last, with the limits of however many of each type of game we're running in consideration.
Since I'm next on the PCQ slot, I will be happy to hold my game off until the Specialty queue clears out once Mind Screw is over.
You're actually second in the PCQ, behind me.
My game is comparatively very simple and hopefully quick - 12 players, no special roles, no nights - so I don't think running it and a specialty concurrently would be a problem for player counts, but I'm also willing to step aside if we want to shove the specialties through.
As a relatively new player I'm pretty interested in "normal" style games. Is there something that plays more toward Town vs. Scum though as Ive noticed a trend where just about every game has multiple and/or very powerful neutrals? I'm interested in those games with 13+ players but I've always been curious about the day ones that last more than a month of real time. It seems those games end up with the players just V/LA out of boredom. What brought about the grueling time controls in the first place?
You should check out the Standard Games over at MafiaUniverse - they have open setups which might be your cup of tea.
Specialties/FTQ are likely to contain neutrals, and there is only one Normal on the hosting list which I have no idea contains one, so yeah.
If we brought back Basics, they won't contain neutrals.
I'm curious on how the timing of the games was decided. I think one problem is that people stop playing because the game lags on and no one wants to push the case until the deadline is approaching so it gets super boring. Maybe a two week deadline is more than enough for one day?
An ironic problem with deadlines is some town will procrastinate on lynching if the deadline is too far away, which often leads sudden wagon-shifts at the last moment and someone getting lynched out of the blue & with little discussion to support that lynch.
... which leads me to ask, why are we having to long deadlines then?
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An ironic problem with deadlines is some town will procrastinate on lynching if the deadline is too far away, which often leads sudden wagon-shifts at the last moment and someone getting lynched out of the blue & with little discussion to support that lynch.
About queues, diversity is good. Some players enjoy good old Mafia, some players enjoy mind-****ery, some players enjoy switching between the two. If we only have good old Mafia or only have mind-****ery, many players will get bored and/or leave. With an all-PCQ system, I'm afraid a plurality of players will end up pushing away whichever type of game they like the least, and as a consequence gradually push away the players who don't agree with that group.
@TappingStones: Stay tuned for my upcoming game!
My expectation is that we'll bounce between the various game types much more fluidly. Mind Screw falling out of fashion? Ok, let's do something a little less bastard-y. Large game hasn't fired in a while? Ok, let's give that one a shot.
I think half the problem with the basics and the current normal games is that they just. don't. change. Eventually that gets stale, and you need to switch things up.
An ironic problem with deadlines is some town will procrastinate on lynching if the deadline is too far away, which often leads sudden wagon-shifts at the last moment and someone getting lynched out of the blue & with little discussion to support that lynch.
About queues, diversity is good. Some players enjoy good old Mafia, some players enjoy mind-****ery, some players enjoy switching between the two. If we only have good old Mafia or only have mind-****ery, many players will get bored and/or leave. With an all-PCQ system, I'm afraid a plurality of players will end up pushing away whichever type of game they like the least, and as a consequence gradually push away the players who don't agree with that group.
@TappingStones: Stay tuned for my upcoming game!
My expectation is that we'll bounce between the various game types much more fluidly. Mind Screw falling out of fashion? Ok, let's do something a little less bastard-y. Large game hasn't fired in a while? Ok, let's give that one a shot.
I think half the problem with the basics and the current normal games is that they just. don't. change. Eventually that gets stale, and you need to switch things up.
I'm thinking another potential solution would be to add a new queue for games like that that runs independent of the size-based queues. I'm thinking "Signature" as a working title.
We've had a number of games and series go off over the years that for the most part were Specialty games, the kind of games that tend to be remembered for complexity and innovative mechanics that wouldn't generally fit in amongst the new queue designs. These games tend to bring new players into the site (hell, look at the four players we gained from NGA just for Star Trek MU4.) I'd like to propose a queue for these series and updates/reimaginings of older notable games; this might need to start as a queue of just stuff like my MU series, Mind Screw, and games like those, but could expand to be kind of a Greatest Hits of MTGS queue. Keeping these types of games running (without clogging up the existing queues with reboots) could prove to be an ongoing attraction for new players that'd expand our community. I'm imagining this as a queue where we'd want the games to ideally be in the 14-15 player range so that games aren't taking a month to fill.
Thoughts? Am I just totally insane here?
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You're hitting on what makes MTGS a good community to play mafia: unique game design and storytelling. It's not enough for our hosts to run a game; it has to push the envelope, break a mold, go where no designer has gone before, etc. But to enjoy those games, we need players with basic knowledge of mechanics and a solid understanding of roles.
Perhaps going more narrative with Basics and more mechanical with our specialties would help. Instead of League, which added incentive to playing a lot with career stats and rankings, perhaps an episodic or continuing tale would help Basics out more. "Being part of the story" is what initially drew me to this game, and having an effect on the "world" of the designer. Xyre's games to this day stand out as superb storytelling that reacts to player decisions and change course completely depending on results.
Perhaps Basic Trilogy stories? Or what if players were roleplaying with no metagaming? Love the thought.
I'm only suggesting that basics should try harder to have a meaningful narrative, instead of falling into the trap of "boring setup means boring story, set in Standardville". Also a continuing story that extends to the next game from that host or even another with coordination.
Example: Game 1 Town must root out Werewolf infestation. Town wins, Game 2 involves infiltrating a werewolf den; now the secret team is the good guys. Or if Werewolves won, they infest the city and Game 2 is an urban setting. Game 3 will have your werewolf godfather either taking over the nation or desperately fighting for survival.
Continuing narrative with player choice can be powerful, even without messing with mechanics.
Kind of, but more focused on ongoing narrative. We have proven serialized games and serialized stories. We have one-off games that could be developed into serialized stories. I'm thinking of a queue that focuses on that, running alongside the FTQ. I'm thinking of a queue we can really sell to players to get them talking on other sites & bringing players in. I'm thinking of a queue that banks on what we're really good at & focuses it on growing our community.
FTQ gets the new, great ideas. This queue would build on the ones that have the popularity and design space to be built into more than one game. It'd be a queue for sequels and reboots so that they're running as often as possible and bringing players in from outside to experience what we've all experienced makes MTGS mafia unique.
I think it's an essential part of building an experience; after all, have you really experienced our flavor of Mafia if you haven't played a Star Trek: Myriad Universes game (hate tooting my own horn, but if people are still signing up for the series four games in, I have to be doing something right), Cyan's Impossible Mafia, any of Seppel's games, or any of the dozens of other games we've had that ooze innovation and creativity? Creative setups are something we're really, really good at, and that's something that I think needs to be more accessible to new players, especially experienced ones coming from other sites.
We've got a lot of creativity, we're not doing much to get the word out about it & bring players in, and I think this queue can do exactly that.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But that's exactly what the FTQ is for, yours just limits it to sequels or reboots of a previous game. As you've noticed, there's literally nothing stopping someone running multiple games in a series, and at a PCQ/FTQ that can even give them an edge, but the games are not sufficiently different to come anywhere close to meriting their own queue.
Hmm. Hold up a moment guys, I think Annorax is really onto something here.
It's not just that we're trying to start another FTQ or PCQ. He's talking about the way we market ourselves, and emphasizing our strongest designs and story-telling elements in an intentional manner. Not just for our own consumption, but for recruitment.
For instance, what if we ran a trilogy of games based on xyre's designwork? They could feature similar flavor and design, and I could imagine word-of-mouth and excitement building as the trilogy progresses. Not enough spots to sign up? Well, we've got all these other fine games available back on the mothership...
Now, let's say we got intentional about the way we offered those games, and did it on MU. Maybe in one of the cross-town games Askthepizzaguy proposed, for maximum impact Hell, I'd guess that even just as a spectator event you might have a few dozen people just observing. Think about the potential for recruiting.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But that's exactly what the FTQ is for, yours just limits it to sequels or reboots of a previous game. As you've noticed, there's literally nothing stopping someone running multiple games in a series, and at a PCQ/FTQ that can even give them an edge, but the games are not sufficiently different to come anywhere close to meriting their own queue.
It's full of sequels and reboots, but that's the idea: we have metric tons of strong designs and strong stories that we can revive as a recruiting mechanism. This queue wouldn't be for us (well, maybe for the designers who want to go back to the well), it'd be for the players on MU, etc that we want over here. I want to take some of these players from other sites who read our games, see we've had some great games over the years, and go back to wherever they play now and turn them into active players on MTGS. I think a queue designed to let them experience the same kinds of great, unique to MTGS games we have would be a hell of a marketing tool to convert those browsers into active players.
The community's been shrinking for a while now & I think this has the potential to get a lot of fresh blood and new perspectives into our community.
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It's full of sequels and reboots, but that's the idea: we have metric tons of strong designs and strong stories that we can revive as a recruiting mechanism. This queue wouldn't be for us (well, maybe for the designers who want to go back to the well), it'd be for the players on MU, etc that we want over here. I want to take some of these players from other sites who read our games, see we've had some great games over the years, and go back to wherever they play now and turn them into active players on MTGS. I think a queue designed to let them experience the same kinds of great, unique to MTGS games we have would be a hell of a marketing tool to convert those browsers into active players.
The community's been shrinking for a while now & I think this has the potential to get a lot of fresh blood and new perspectives into our community.
What you're saying is we need a queue that highlights the best MTGS has to offer, games which showcase the quintessential MTGS creativity. This is literally the point of the FTQ, your idea is just limiting to only to sequels/reboots for no good reason. Games which are not part of a series can be every bit as creative and high quality as those that are, and FTQ committee is what helps ensure that the games that run are the cream of the crop. Why limit it to games which are part of a known series?
What you're saying is we need a queue that highlights the best MTGS has to offer, games which showcase the quintessential MTGS creativity. This is literally the point of the FTQ, your idea is just limiting to only to sequels/reboots for no good reason. Games which are not part of a series can be every bit as creative and high quality as those that are, and FTQ committee is what helps ensure that the games that run are the cream of the crop. Why limit it to games which are part of a known series?
It's the same logic that's supporting the cycle of reboots and known intellectual property films in Hollywood right now. You can either roll the dice on a new product fresh off the presses, or you can leverage existing work of high quality to make a superior product with greater ease than starting from scratch, and greater consistency in results. Not every FTQ game has been an instant classic that stands the rest of time, only a comparatively small number, but we have a nice archive built up at this point.
I'm not saying continuing a series is a bad thing, and there are plenty of plus sides. There just aren't enough differences with any other FTQ to deserve a different queue. That doesn't mean I would be anything other than pleased to see more sequels in the FTQ.
I'm not saying continuing a series is a bad thing, and there are plenty of plus sides. There just aren't enough differences with any other FTQ to deserve a different queue. That doesn't mean I would be anything other than pleased to see more sequels in the FTQ.
I'm not sure that we're talking about a new queue, in so much as we may be talking about material that we feature on MU for recruitment and/or cross-town purposes.
I'm not saying continuing a series is a bad thing, and there are plenty of plus sides. There just aren't enough differences with any other FTQ to deserve a different queue. That doesn't mean I would be anything other than pleased to see more sequels in the FTQ.
I'm not sure that we're talking about a new queue, in so much as we may be talking about material that we feature on MU for recruitment and/or cross-town purposes.
Annorax is proposing a new queue, which I'm disagreeing with. I agree with you that sequels make for good games, although it might be a bit speculative to suggest that non-MTGSers will feel more invested in a sequel they never saw the first one of than any other game. But who knows, it might encourage them to go read the original. Definitely an avenue worth exploring (Cyberspace 2: This Time With Fixed Mechanics)
I'm not saying continuing a series is a bad thing, and there are plenty of plus sides. There just aren't enough differences with any other FTQ to deserve a different queue. That doesn't mean I would be anything other than pleased to see more sequels in the FTQ.
I'm not sure that we're talking about a new queue, in so much as we may be talking about material that we feature on MU for recruitment and/or cross-town purposes.
Annorax is proposing a new queue, which I'm disagreeing with. I agree with you that sequels make for good games, although it might be a bit speculative to suggest that non-MTGSers will feel more invested in a sequel they never saw the first one of than any other game. But who knows, it might encourage them to go read the original. Definitely an avenue worth exploring (Cyberspace 2: This Time With Fixed Mechanics)
The actual form doesn't have to be a new queue, so much as I think we need to leverage the material we have into a marketing tool. If they read the original, like what they see, and then see part 2, or 5 or whatever is next up in whatever queue, they'll stick around. The form doesn't matter so much as harnessing the design space the older material left open & marketing that experience to new players.
In the end, it doesn't matter if it's a separate queue or just an emphasis on developing existing material into new and interesting FTQ games to give MU players, etc a reason to stick around. We're not actively working at bringing new players in currently, and that has to change if we want to reverse the damage the community took from the transition to Cobalt.
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Let's then encourage our players to come up with compelling games and the best-received ones they can consider making sequels for and submit them to the FTQ.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Let's then encourage our players to come up with compelling games and the best-received ones they can consider making sequels for and submit them to the FTQ.
Which would be easier for our hosts: to rework and clean up something like Inheritance or The Greenwood Affair, or to start over from scratch and spend hours and hours coming up with plot points, flavor, and new PMs? Have you SEEN how much flavor text is in Xyre's games? That's a major commitment, and if it's complex new setup, you run a lot of risks with something going wrong with the balance, or a particular role, or maybe the flavor doesn't wind up quite as good as you thought, and it's a bit of a let-down. There's a reason a lot of our older hosts like Axelrod, those who are still around, aren't pumping out setups as often as they used to.
Oh, I know it's a lot of work. I spent hours on Survival Horror Mafia, myself, and unfortunately felt like it was received poorly due to a mod error I made and two particularly powerful roles, one of which was town and the other of which was scum. But it took a lot of effort to iron out the mechanics of that game and make it so that any one side wasn't especially overpowered. (And given that it came right down to two town and one mafia, I'd say I achieved that!)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think advertising in general is a good idea. I also have no problem with anyone using anything I've put on this site to write flavor for future games - so long as I get a token "inspired by" credit or something, I have no qualms with anyone appropriating my work and putting their own spin on it, editing canon, etc. I'm just happy so long as something cool comes of it.
The biggest limitation at this point seems to be people who can and want to write that much flavor. I know from having seen the pieces that Az at one point was working on blowing the story in Inheritance out into a whole arc, which would be cool to see, but that was years ago, and I suspect he just doesn't have the time to work out all the requisite elements. The same thing happened with the follow-up to Ozone Underground, trying to put a capper on the David Klein story (and that's not even mentioning the fact that I never even finished some of the role PMs in OU).
The Asphodel Meadows (and to a lesser extent, word-count wise, the rest of my games) was largely fortuitous, because I was a lazy high school/college student with a lot of time on my hands for producing literary whirligigs. Even if I didn't have my own offline writing to work on, I just don't have the time for that sort of thing anymore, and I'm definitely not the only one. It's one thing to sell the site on its reputation, another to sell it on its potential.
One idea would be to try to break the work up into pieces - get four or five co-mods/co-writers to segment the work of one really big project, whether based on an existing IP or just on the writers' reputations. Give the people on MU lots of links to what's come before to try to draw them in. But I don't know who'd be crazy enough to sign up for that job, either.
Kind of tangential to that, I did rather enjoy that thing we did a while back where we had a game-creation contest in teams, where people who just wanted to do one bit (roles, flavour, whatever) could sell their skills. Maybe we could revive that to revitalise the queues. It could even be a short time limit, high pressure thing: each team has, say, 48 hours to create as complete a Mini as possible. It could even have the additional theme of "make a sequel/reboot of an existing game" if we wanted to push that.
It actually looks like most of the games are yet to see the light of day, or even make it onto hosting lists. But I do see some I recognise, like Mind Screw and Majora's Mask, GoldenEye, Gatecrash, Wu-Tang.
Oh sure, I was just thinking we could try and run it as a high pressure, very short time limit competition, like a game jam or hackathon-type thing. But I expect a much longer deadline like the original had would be more likely.
Kind of tangential to that, I did rather enjoy that thing we did a while back where we had a game-creation contest in teams, where people who just wanted to do one bit (roles, flavour, whatever) could sell their skills. Maybe we could revive that to revitalise the queues. It could even be a short time limit, high pressure thing: each team has, say, 48 hours to create as complete a Mini as possible. It could even have the additional theme of "make a sequel/reboot of an existing game" if we wanted to push that.
If we run out of material for the FTQs at some point, that'd be a great idea.
I'm only suggesting that basics should try harder to have a meaningful narrative, instead of falling into the trap of "boring setup means boring story, set in Standardville". Also a continuing story that extends to the next game from that host or even another with coordination.
Example: Game 1 Town must root out Werewolf infestation. Town wins, Game 2 involves infiltrating a werewolf den; now the secret team is the good guys. Or if Werewolves won, they infest the city and Game 2 is an urban setting. Game 3 will have your werewolf godfather either taking over the nation or desperately fighting for survival.
Continuing narrative with player choice can be powerful, even without messing with mechanics.
I think advertising in general is a good idea. I also have no problem with anyone using anything I've put on this site to write flavor for future games - so long as I get a token "inspired by" credit or something, I have no qualms with anyone appropriating my work and putting their own spin on it, editing canon, etc. I'm just happy so long as something cool comes of it.
The biggest limitation at this point seems to be people who can and want to write that much flavor. I know from having seen the pieces that Az at one point was working on blowing the story in Inheritance out into a whole arc, which would be cool to see, but that was years ago, and I suspect he just doesn't have the time to work out all the requisite elements. The same thing happened with the follow-up to Ozone Underground, trying to put a capper on the David Klein story (and that's not even mentioning the fact that I never even finished some of the role PMs in OU).
The Asphodel Meadows (and to a lesser extent, word-count wise, the rest of my games) was largely fortuitous, because I was a lazy high school/college student with a lot of time on my hands for producing literary whirligigs. Even if I didn't have my own offline writing to work on, I just don't have the time for that sort of thing anymore, and I'm definitely not the only one. It's one thing to sell the site on its reputation, another to sell it on its potential.
One idea would be to try to break the work up into pieces - get four or five co-mods/co-writers to segment the work of one really big project, whether based on an existing IP or just on the writers' reputations. Give the people on MU lots of links to what's come before to try to draw them in. But I don't know who'd be crazy enough to sign up for that job, either.
Another thought that I had was updating/adjusting some of our older material for other sites and using that to bring new players into our community by running one-off games on those other sites and letting their players experience our unique flavor of Mafia without leaving home, then leaving them with a "this was one of our greatest hits, join up on MTGS to see the current games in these series." One good example would be SomethingAwful, which has a number of former MTGS players and somehow manages to fill 24 player games in a day or two; if we can recruit some of that player base, things would get much more interesting.
I'm seriously considering doing an XL version of MU2 to bring it up to 25 or so players and running it over there after MU4 is done. Any thoughts on whether this might be a good play?
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I'd run the advertising by their Mods first, of course, and would recommend possibly naming it something different and changing the flavor so that people who Google the name for whatever reason don't find the old game thread.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd run the advertising by their Mods first, of course, and would recommend possibly naming it something different and changing the flavor so that people who Google the name for whatever reason don't find the old game thread.
Of course I'd run it past their mods first. I actually want a similar name (Star Trek: Myriad Universes XL), since it'll be a sequel/expansion to an older game. If I do start design on this, quite a bit will be changed, so that the original game thread can serve as advertising for the flavor depth without giving much of anything useful away. The broad strokes will be there, in kind of an alternate reality of an alternate multiverse flavor variant, but Teia and I would make sure that it's so different that relying on the original game for play advice would yield nothing useful.
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Another thought that I had was updating/adjusting some of our older material for other sites and using that to bring new players into our community by running one-off games on those other sites and letting their players experience our unique flavor of Mafia without leaving home, then leaving them with a "this was one of our greatest hits, join up on MTGS to see the current games in these series." One good example would be SomethingAwful, which has a number of former MTGS players and somehow manages to fill 24 player games in a day or two; if we can recruit some of that player base, things would get much more interesting.
I'm seriously considering doing an XL version of MU2 to bring it up to 25 or so players and running it over there after MU4 is done. Any thoughts on whether this might be a good play?
I would probably hold off on that until we get better organized, and figure out who's going to be in charge of selecting what setups should run. It's likely to be a process similar to the FTQ, most likely put to a vote by the FTQ committee amongst multiple contenders.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm sure many of you have noticed that the queues for both Minis and Normals are dangerously short. I'd like to run a PCQ-style open entry thing (separately for each queue) where people submit setups, we work together to get them built and reviewed, winners chosen by a combination of popular vote and judge panel, with all the games added to the respective queues with winners at the top. I believe this is a good way to encourage people to turn their ideas into completed games, spread cooperation, and generate some hype: all of which we sorely need.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In addition to that idea, I've been working on something that *might* be well-suited to that MU recruitment kickstarter game. Would we have interest in that? Would this be something that we'd consider a good show-case of MTGS design and flavor?
Eve's Horizon. It was nearly the dirtiest bar on Echo Prime. The mingled dust and grit of more than a dozen neighboring worlds was ground deep into the cracks and crannies of the worn, gun-metal grey flooring. The glasses, mismatched, stacked in untidy heaps behind the counter, were smudged with oil, grease, and spit. Low, clouded light filtered through smoke and steam, obscuring as much as illuminating. It was not a bar where you went to sate a common appetite, or find a kindred soul. It was the kind of bar you went to, to get yourself hopelessly lost, time slipping through numbed fingers, numbed minds, like water spilling through the vacuum of blackest space. It was six streets from the starport terminal, and down nine levels from the surface plates and landing strips of the bustling, working city. Warmth seeped languorously from floor-plates dotted throughout the room, staving off the creeping chill that would sweep over the city from its outer edges to its core in less than three hours, if the city's reactors came undone. Light-years from humanity's distant origin, scattered pockets of life clung tenaciously to harbors of rock and metal and steel, balanced on the razor's edge separating dirt and the shadowed and star-strewn sky.
It was not the first time Marlow had darkened the doorway of Eve's Horizon. Once every few months, he would arrive, order a drink, meet briefly with hard-eyed men with slow stares, and a freighter would take on a load of cargo, which Earth Authority customs would pointedly ignore, as they had been well paid to do.
Dirk Marlow sat at his usual table, ordered his usual drink, and waited.
Someone else entered the bar - not a regular. Earth Authority uniform. Nobody quite met her eyes. Marlow stared into his drink.
She lowered her voice. "Look, Dirk, I can't go through with this one."
Marlow swirled the ice in his drink. "Having second thoughts about getting in bed with the rebellion?"
She gave him a level look. "No. And don't be an ********, Marlow. We've been through plenty, and I've put my ass on the line for you more times than I count. But you need to be straight with me, this time. I need to know what I'm getting into."
"It's just another shipment."
"It is NOT just another shipment. Don't pull that on me. Arms for the rebellion - I can live with that on my conscience. But what you're shipping - sophisticated genetic splicers, DNA readers, viral recoding cultures - I don't like what that looks like, Dirk."
"And what do you think that looks like?"
"A pile of a trillion dead bodies, hatching flies. That's what it looks like to me. You people always said this rebellion was for the common man. If you start-"
"Start what? Start killing off entire planets? Have the news reports say it was all just a freak virus? Yeah, it'd be just terrible if somebody got up to that." Marlow's fist tightened involuntarily. "You know, sometimes I don't know how you bring yourself to put on that uniform ever day and see yourself in the mirror."
"That's bull*****. You know what I've done for you. And it wasn't just for the money. And it wasn't your charming personality, either. You wanna talk about looking in the mirror? That's fresh, coming from someone who wants to remake himself into a mass murderer."
"You really think that's what I'm up to? Do you really know me that little?"
She paused. "It looks bad, Marlow. And I don't know all the people you work with. I can't just rubber stamp this and let it pass. We both know that things can't stay as they are. The people won't stand for being ordered how to live their lives from people who live a hundred thousand light years away, with no real say. The five party system is broken, and we all know it. But if it comes down to it, I don't what that kind of blood on my hands, and I hope you and your friends don't, either. So why don't you tell me what this is really about, if you can. Because if you can't, that cargo isn't going to move. Not unless you want to shoot your way out."
"I can't. It's too big, and I'm just an errand boy. They say jump, I jump. But I trust them, and so should you. We've never let you down."
She shook her head. "No. No, Marlow. You know more than you're letting on. You're not just some provincial chief. I've seen the way your men look at you, the way they jump. You know more about what's going on out there than even I do. There's more to you than that. Way more."
An edge crept into his voice. "And if I say no? You going to beat it out of me? Disappear me into some lightless vacuum capsule, fire me into the sun? He moved to get up.
"Marlow. Stop." She slammed her hand down over his. "Look, I know we've had our rough patches. But we've had some good times too, haven't we? I've watched your back this long. And I've been trusting you, for a long time. It's time for a little bit of that to come around. Make me believe, Marlow. That's all I ask." She let go of his hand.
His eyes bored a hole in the table. Then he let out a deep breath.
"The rebellion is finished, Kate. It's over. In the last week, they've wiped twelve more planets off the map. One in a thousand survives the virus, and those that survive that are rounded up into camps and disposed of. Children, too. No witnesses, no questions. Every time we win, they burn us to the ground. They will never, ever let us hold territory of our own. Not even if it means wiping a quarter of the human race from existence to stop us."
Hands shaking, he drained his glass to the last drop. She waited for him go on. "We can't let them do that, but we can't give up, either. So we have to look to the future. Lay the groundwork for a blow they'll never see coming, and never come back from. Someday, years from now, maybe decades, when their guard is down. They still think they're fighting flesh and blood. They think we're fighting for power. They don't realize that they're fighting an idea, and ideas are immortal. You plant the right ideas in someone's head, and you control them. That's what this is about. Not killing. Control."
He met her eyes. "That's all that I can say and more. Is it good enough?"
The corner of her mouth turned down as she thought. She let out a breath. "Good enough."
Disinheritance is a game for 16 players. Players will vote not only for who they believe the most likely mafia player is, but will also vote publicly for players who they wish to "empower", granting those players access to new, more powerful, and more exotic night abilities. This system will emphasize the importance of behavioral analysis and deception more than ever before, directly linking each groups talent in the game's fundamental core skills to the effectiveness of both groups during the night period. In addition, both groups will have unparalleled flexibility and variety in strategic options at their disposal during the night period, if they are able to coordinate their (and their opponents') empower votes effectively.
To facilitate this greater cooperation, strategy, and trickery, this game will feature universal private communication between all players, with the sole restriction being the inability to quote role PMs/mod PMs. To creative and cunning minds, this should present a tremendous opportunity to exploit.
In addition, the game offers the capacity for an unlimited number of additional, non-voting player slots. These players will be assigned alignments, be able to freely comment on the game within a separate, publicly visible game thread, will share in the unlimited private communication privileges, and will be capable of affecting the game not only through contributing analysis, advice, and disinformation, but also in other, unexpected ways. Non-voting players slots may not affect the game with any abilities, nor do they count as hidden players or hydra accounts, but both non-voting and voting player slots should be advised that due to mechanics never before seen here or on any other forum, the alignment of non-voting players may become somewhat relevant during the course of the game...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't know what you have behind the scenes but the game feels incredibly town-sided.
As ZDS said when you floated the game in the Invitational spectator QT, having universal private communication between all players gives a massive advantage to the town. The town can claim to each other in private, pass results onto each other, group-scumhunt, have a bunch of neighbor chats between townies, etc. Of course you can make the argument that the scum can infiltrate these, but it's a lot more work as scum to involve yourself into these group chats and appear that you're actively solving the game when you're doing it. Being involved in more chats just gives more opportunities to slip up or make a mistake somewhere, whereas for townies it'll be natural. I would imagine it would make the main game thread very frustrating to take part in.
In addition, the "unlimited number of additional, non voting player slots who can choose their alignment" seems potentially dangerous as well, since the scum there won't really have much incentive to actually play the game other than "spread disinformation and try to make the scum team win". Plus I can name a number of very talented analysts whom, as town, can solve the game pretty well from a spectator's standpoint.
It's possible that the universal private communication makes the second point moot, or that the town doesn't utilize behavioral analysis effectively and gets distracted by the mechanics (hi Mind Screw!), but just by looking at the mechanics the game would be pretty difficult to watch or play if you aren't part of any of these secret chats.
I'm only suggesting that basics should try harder to have a meaningful narrative, instead of falling into the trap of "boring setup means boring story, set in Standardville". Also a continuing story that extends to the next game from that host or even another with coordination.
Example: Game 1 Town must root out Werewolf infestation. Town wins, Game 2 involves infiltrating a werewolf den; now the secret team is the good guys. Or if Werewolves won, they infest the city and Game 2 is an urban setting. Game 3 will have your werewolf godfather either taking over the nation or desperately fighting for survival.
Continuing narrative with player choice can be powerful, even without messing with mechanics.
Reiterating here for the Council's attention: I'd like to request a blacklist for TappingStones.
I had to disqualify him from ST:MU4 for severe unsporting conduct after he'd repeatedly trolled his way into three infractions and a forum suspension. He was also modkilled in Mind Screw for similar behavior. This kind of disruption can ruin games & I think the Council should consider stopping it from happening again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Personally, I'd be fine erasing the "normals" distinction, making us essentially size-based plus constant PCQ, but I understand that there's some strong minority opposition to moving in that direction re: Normals.
Larger issue is that going back to our present system doesn't address the issue of large games not filling. Well, it addresses THAT issue, but not the catastrophic side effects of simply bludgeoning the playerbase into getting enough people to fire a game of a type that's clearly not in demand, before they can get to playing the games that ARE in demand, and that would help the sub grow.
Our focus has to be on what's going to grow the sub and keep it healthy, above all else. Our queue system has to adapt to serve those priorities, not vice versa.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My game is comparatively very simple and hopefully quick - 12 players, no special roles, no nights - so I don't think running it and a specialty concurrently would be a problem for player counts, but I'm also willing to step aside if we want to shove the specialties through.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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Curse PremiumSpecialties/FTQ are likely to contain neutrals, and there is only one Normal on the hosting list which I have no idea contains one, so yeah.
If we brought back Basics, they won't contain neutrals.
I'm curious on how the timing of the games was decided. I think one problem is that people stop playing because the game lags on and no one wants to push the case until the deadline is approaching so it gets super boring. Maybe a two week deadline is more than enough for one day?
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Curse Premium@Proph-Your game was essentially perfect (dumb down the cultist) a bit and it's game of the year.
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Non-Staff Quasi-Mod... which leads me to ask, why are we having to long deadlines then?
My expectation is that we'll bounce between the various game types much more fluidly. Mind Screw falling out of fashion? Ok, let's do something a little less bastard-y. Large game hasn't fired in a while? Ok, let's give that one a shot.
I think half the problem with the basics and the current normal games is that they just. don't. change. Eventually that gets stale, and you need to switch things up.
I'm thinking another potential solution would be to add a new queue for games like that that runs independent of the size-based queues. I'm thinking "Signature" as a working title.
We've had a number of games and series go off over the years that for the most part were Specialty games, the kind of games that tend to be remembered for complexity and innovative mechanics that wouldn't generally fit in amongst the new queue designs. These games tend to bring new players into the site (hell, look at the four players we gained from NGA just for Star Trek MU4.) I'd like to propose a queue for these series and updates/reimaginings of older notable games; this might need to start as a queue of just stuff like my MU series, Mind Screw, and games like those, but could expand to be kind of a Greatest Hits of MTGS queue. Keeping these types of games running (without clogging up the existing queues with reboots) could prove to be an ongoing attraction for new players that'd expand our community. I'm imagining this as a queue where we'd want the games to ideally be in the 14-15 player range so that games aren't taking a month to fill.
Thoughts? Am I just totally insane here?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Perhaps going more narrative with Basics and more mechanical with our specialties would help. Instead of League, which added incentive to playing a lot with career stats and rankings, perhaps an episodic or continuing tale would help Basics out more. "Being part of the story" is what initially drew me to this game, and having an effect on the "world" of the designer. Xyre's games to this day stand out as superb storytelling that reacts to player decisions and change course completely depending on results.
Perhaps Basic Trilogy stories? Or what if players were roleplaying with no metagaming? Love the thought.
Example: Game 1 Town must root out Werewolf infestation. Town wins, Game 2 involves infiltrating a werewolf den; now the secret team is the good guys. Or if Werewolves won, they infest the city and Game 2 is an urban setting. Game 3 will have your werewolf godfather either taking over the nation or desperately fighting for survival.
Continuing narrative with player choice can be powerful, even without messing with mechanics.
Kind of, but more focused on ongoing narrative. We have proven serialized games and serialized stories. We have one-off games that could be developed into serialized stories. I'm thinking of a queue that focuses on that, running alongside the FTQ. I'm thinking of a queue we can really sell to players to get them talking on other sites & bringing players in. I'm thinking of a queue that banks on what we're really good at & focuses it on growing our community.
FTQ gets the new, great ideas. This queue would build on the ones that have the popularity and design space to be built into more than one game. It'd be a queue for sequels and reboots so that they're running as often as possible and bringing players in from outside to experience what we've all experienced makes MTGS mafia unique.
I think it's an essential part of building an experience; after all, have you really experienced our flavor of Mafia if you haven't played a Star Trek: Myriad Universes game (hate tooting my own horn, but if people are still signing up for the series four games in, I have to be doing something right), Cyan's Impossible Mafia, any of Seppel's games, or any of the dozens of other games we've had that ooze innovation and creativity? Creative setups are something we're really, really good at, and that's something that I think needs to be more accessible to new players, especially experienced ones coming from other sites.
We've got a lot of creativity, we're not doing much to get the word out about it & bring players in, and I think this queue can do exactly that.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's not just that we're trying to start another FTQ or PCQ. He's talking about the way we market ourselves, and emphasizing our strongest designs and story-telling elements in an intentional manner. Not just for our own consumption, but for recruitment.
For instance, what if we ran a trilogy of games based on xyre's designwork? They could feature similar flavor and design, and I could imagine word-of-mouth and excitement building as the trilogy progresses. Not enough spots to sign up? Well, we've got all these other fine games available back on the mothership...
Now, let's say we got intentional about the way we offered those games, and did it on MU. Maybe in one of the cross-town games Askthepizzaguy proposed, for maximum impact Hell, I'd guess that even just as a spectator event you might have a few dozen people just observing. Think about the potential for recruiting.
It's full of sequels and reboots, but that's the idea: we have metric tons of strong designs and strong stories that we can revive as a recruiting mechanism. This queue wouldn't be for us (well, maybe for the designers who want to go back to the well), it'd be for the players on MU, etc that we want over here. I want to take some of these players from other sites who read our games, see we've had some great games over the years, and go back to wherever they play now and turn them into active players on MTGS. I think a queue designed to let them experience the same kinds of great, unique to MTGS games we have would be a hell of a marketing tool to convert those browsers into active players.
The community's been shrinking for a while now & I think this has the potential to get a lot of fresh blood and new perspectives into our community.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
What you're saying is we need a queue that highlights the best MTGS has to offer, games which showcase the quintessential MTGS creativity. This is literally the point of the FTQ, your idea is just limiting to only to sequels/reboots for no good reason. Games which are not part of a series can be every bit as creative and high quality as those that are, and FTQ committee is what helps ensure that the games that run are the cream of the crop. Why limit it to games which are part of a known series?
It's the same logic that's supporting the cycle of reboots and known intellectual property films in Hollywood right now. You can either roll the dice on a new product fresh off the presses, or you can leverage existing work of high quality to make a superior product with greater ease than starting from scratch, and greater consistency in results. Not every FTQ game has been an instant classic that stands the rest of time, only a comparatively small number, but we have a nice archive built up at this point.
I'm not sure that we're talking about a new queue, in so much as we may be talking about material that we feature on MU for recruitment and/or cross-town purposes.
Annorax is proposing a new queue, which I'm disagreeing with. I agree with you that sequels make for good games, although it might be a bit speculative to suggest that non-MTGSers will feel more invested in a sequel they never saw the first one of than any other game. But who knows, it might encourage them to go read the original. Definitely an avenue worth exploring (Cyberspace 2: This Time With Fixed Mechanics)
The actual form doesn't have to be a new queue, so much as I think we need to leverage the material we have into a marketing tool. If they read the original, like what they see, and then see part 2, or 5 or whatever is next up in whatever queue, they'll stick around. The form doesn't matter so much as harnessing the design space the older material left open & marketing that experience to new players.
In the end, it doesn't matter if it's a separate queue or just an emphasis on developing existing material into new and interesting FTQ games to give MU players, etc a reason to stick around. We're not actively working at bringing new players in currently, and that has to change if we want to reverse the damage the community took from the transition to Cobalt.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Which would be easier for our hosts: to rework and clean up something like Inheritance or The Greenwood Affair, or to start over from scratch and spend hours and hours coming up with plot points, flavor, and new PMs? Have you SEEN how much flavor text is in Xyre's games? That's a major commitment, and if it's complex new setup, you run a lot of risks with something going wrong with the balance, or a particular role, or maybe the flavor doesn't wind up quite as good as you thought, and it's a bit of a let-down. There's a reason a lot of our older hosts like Axelrod, those who are still around, aren't pumping out setups as often as they used to.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The biggest limitation at this point seems to be people who can and want to write that much flavor. I know from having seen the pieces that Az at one point was working on blowing the story in Inheritance out into a whole arc, which would be cool to see, but that was years ago, and I suspect he just doesn't have the time to work out all the requisite elements. The same thing happened with the follow-up to Ozone Underground, trying to put a capper on the David Klein story (and that's not even mentioning the fact that I never even finished some of the role PMs in OU).
The Asphodel Meadows (and to a lesser extent, word-count wise, the rest of my games) was largely fortuitous, because I was a lazy high school/college student with a lot of time on my hands for producing literary whirligigs. Even if I didn't have my own offline writing to work on, I just don't have the time for that sort of thing anymore, and I'm definitely not the only one. It's one thing to sell the site on its reputation, another to sell it on its potential.
One idea would be to try to break the work up into pieces - get four or five co-mods/co-writers to segment the work of one really big project, whether based on an existing IP or just on the writers' reputations. Give the people on MU lots of links to what's come before to try to draw them in. But I don't know who'd be crazy enough to sign up for that job, either.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Voting Thread
It actually looks like most of the games are yet to see the light of day, or even make it onto hosting lists. But I do see some I recognise, like Mind Screw and Majora's Mask, GoldenEye, Gatecrash, Wu-Tang.
If we run out of material for the FTQs at some point, that'd be a great idea.
Battle For Vanillaville is literally that...
Another thought that I had was updating/adjusting some of our older material for other sites and using that to bring new players into our community by running one-off games on those other sites and letting their players experience our unique flavor of Mafia without leaving home, then leaving them with a "this was one of our greatest hits, join up on MTGS to see the current games in these series." One good example would be SomethingAwful, which has a number of former MTGS players and somehow manages to fill 24 player games in a day or two; if we can recruit some of that player base, things would get much more interesting.
I'm seriously considering doing an XL version of MU2 to bring it up to 25 or so players and running it over there after MU4 is done. Any thoughts on whether this might be a good play?
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Of course I'd run it past their mods first. I actually want a similar name (Star Trek: Myriad Universes XL), since it'll be a sequel/expansion to an older game. If I do start design on this, quite a bit will be changed, so that the original game thread can serve as advertising for the flavor depth without giving much of anything useful away. The broad strokes will be there, in kind of an alternate reality of an alternate multiverse flavor variant, but Teia and I would make sure that it's so different that relying on the original game for play advice would yield nothing useful.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I would probably hold off on that until we get better organized, and figure out who's going to be in charge of selecting what setups should run. It's likely to be a process similar to the FTQ, most likely put to a vote by the FTQ committee amongst multiple contenders.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What does everyone think about that?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Eve's Horizon. It was nearly the dirtiest bar on Echo Prime. The mingled dust and grit of more than a dozen neighboring worlds was ground deep into the cracks and crannies of the worn, gun-metal grey flooring. The glasses, mismatched, stacked in untidy heaps behind the counter, were smudged with oil, grease, and spit. Low, clouded light filtered through smoke and steam, obscuring as much as illuminating. It was not a bar where you went to sate a common appetite, or find a kindred soul. It was the kind of bar you went to, to get yourself hopelessly lost, time slipping through numbed fingers, numbed minds, like water spilling through the vacuum of blackest space. It was six streets from the starport terminal, and down nine levels from the surface plates and landing strips of the bustling, working city. Warmth seeped languorously from floor-plates dotted throughout the room, staving off the creeping chill that would sweep over the city from its outer edges to its core in less than three hours, if the city's reactors came undone. Light-years from humanity's distant origin, scattered pockets of life clung tenaciously to harbors of rock and metal and steel, balanced on the razor's edge separating dirt and the shadowed and star-strewn sky.
It was not the first time Marlow had darkened the doorway of Eve's Horizon. Once every few months, he would arrive, order a drink, meet briefly with hard-eyed men with slow stares, and a freighter would take on a load of cargo, which Earth Authority customs would pointedly ignore, as they had been well paid to do.
Dirk Marlow sat at his usual table, ordered his usual drink, and waited.
Someone else entered the bar - not a regular. Earth Authority uniform. Nobody quite met her eyes. Marlow stared into his drink.
She lowered her voice. "Look, Dirk, I can't go through with this one."
Marlow swirled the ice in his drink. "Having second thoughts about getting in bed with the rebellion?"
She gave him a level look. "No. And don't be an ********, Marlow. We've been through plenty, and I've put my ass on the line for you more times than I count. But you need to be straight with me, this time. I need to know what I'm getting into."
"It's just another shipment."
"It is NOT just another shipment. Don't pull that on me. Arms for the rebellion - I can live with that on my conscience. But what you're shipping - sophisticated genetic splicers, DNA readers, viral recoding cultures - I don't like what that looks like, Dirk."
"And what do you think that looks like?"
"A pile of a trillion dead bodies, hatching flies. That's what it looks like to me. You people always said this rebellion was for the common man. If you start-"
"Start what? Start killing off entire planets? Have the news reports say it was all just a freak virus? Yeah, it'd be just terrible if somebody got up to that." Marlow's fist tightened involuntarily. "You know, sometimes I don't know how you bring yourself to put on that uniform ever day and see yourself in the mirror."
"That's bull*****. You know what I've done for you. And it wasn't just for the money. And it wasn't your charming personality, either. You wanna talk about looking in the mirror? That's fresh, coming from someone who wants to remake himself into a mass murderer."
"You really think that's what I'm up to? Do you really know me that little?"
She paused. "It looks bad, Marlow. And I don't know all the people you work with. I can't just rubber stamp this and let it pass. We both know that things can't stay as they are. The people won't stand for being ordered how to live their lives from people who live a hundred thousand light years away, with no real say. The five party system is broken, and we all know it. But if it comes down to it, I don't what that kind of blood on my hands, and I hope you and your friends don't, either. So why don't you tell me what this is really about, if you can. Because if you can't, that cargo isn't going to move. Not unless you want to shoot your way out."
"I can't. It's too big, and I'm just an errand boy. They say jump, I jump. But I trust them, and so should you. We've never let you down."
She shook her head. "No. No, Marlow. You know more than you're letting on. You're not just some provincial chief. I've seen the way your men look at you, the way they jump. You know more about what's going on out there than even I do. There's more to you than that. Way more."
An edge crept into his voice. "And if I say no? You going to beat it out of me? Disappear me into some lightless vacuum capsule, fire me into the sun? He moved to get up.
"Marlow. Stop." She slammed her hand down over his. "Look, I know we've had our rough patches. But we've had some good times too, haven't we? I've watched your back this long. And I've been trusting you, for a long time. It's time for a little bit of that to come around. Make me believe, Marlow. That's all I ask." She let go of his hand.
His eyes bored a hole in the table. Then he let out a deep breath.
"The rebellion is finished, Kate. It's over. In the last week, they've wiped twelve more planets off the map. One in a thousand survives the virus, and those that survive that are rounded up into camps and disposed of. Children, too. No witnesses, no questions. Every time we win, they burn us to the ground. They will never, ever let us hold territory of our own. Not even if it means wiping a quarter of the human race from existence to stop us."
Hands shaking, he drained his glass to the last drop. She waited for him go on. "We can't let them do that, but we can't give up, either. So we have to look to the future. Lay the groundwork for a blow they'll never see coming, and never come back from. Someday, years from now, maybe decades, when their guard is down. They still think they're fighting flesh and blood. They think we're fighting for power. They don't realize that they're fighting an idea, and ideas are immortal. You plant the right ideas in someone's head, and you control them. That's what this is about. Not killing. Control."
He met her eyes. "That's all that I can say and more. Is it good enough?"
The corner of her mouth turned down as she thought. She let out a breath. "Good enough."
Disinheritance is a game for 16 players. Players will vote not only for who they believe the most likely mafia player is, but will also vote publicly for players who they wish to "empower", granting those players access to new, more powerful, and more exotic night abilities. This system will emphasize the importance of behavioral analysis and deception more than ever before, directly linking each groups talent in the game's fundamental core skills to the effectiveness of both groups during the night period. In addition, both groups will have unparalleled flexibility and variety in strategic options at their disposal during the night period, if they are able to coordinate their (and their opponents') empower votes effectively.
To facilitate this greater cooperation, strategy, and trickery, this game will feature universal private communication between all players, with the sole restriction being the inability to quote role PMs/mod PMs. To creative and cunning minds, this should present a tremendous opportunity to exploit.
In addition, the game offers the capacity for an unlimited number of additional, non-voting player slots. These players will be assigned alignments, be able to freely comment on the game within a separate, publicly visible game thread, will share in the unlimited private communication privileges, and will be capable of affecting the game not only through contributing analysis, advice, and disinformation, but also in other, unexpected ways. Non-voting players slots may not affect the game with any abilities, nor do they count as hidden players or hydra accounts, but both non-voting and voting player slots should be advised that due to mechanics never before seen here or on any other forum, the alignment of non-voting players may become somewhat relevant during the course of the game...
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Curse PremiumAs ZDS said when you floated the game in the Invitational spectator QT, having universal private communication between all players gives a massive advantage to the town. The town can claim to each other in private, pass results onto each other, group-scumhunt, have a bunch of neighbor chats between townies, etc. Of course you can make the argument that the scum can infiltrate these, but it's a lot more work as scum to involve yourself into these group chats and appear that you're actively solving the game when you're doing it. Being involved in more chats just gives more opportunities to slip up or make a mistake somewhere, whereas for townies it'll be natural. I would imagine it would make the main game thread very frustrating to take part in.
In addition, the "unlimited number of additional, non voting player slots who can choose their alignment" seems potentially dangerous as well, since the scum there won't really have much incentive to actually play the game other than "spread disinformation and try to make the scum team win". Plus I can name a number of very talented analysts whom, as town, can solve the game pretty well from a spectator's standpoint.
It's possible that the universal private communication makes the second point moot, or that the town doesn't utilize behavioral analysis effectively and gets distracted by the mechanics (hi Mind Screw!), but just by looking at the mechanics the game would be pretty difficult to watch or play if you aren't part of any of these secret chats.
Each player may select one player with which to communicate privately, through a QT?
Including the non-voting players? And the non-voters get to select a kingmaker to cast a real vote in the primary thread?
Oh, just following up on what I said earlier.
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/2747-Battle-Of-Destiny-Cartoon-Universe
Reiterating here for the Council's attention: I'd like to request a blacklist for TappingStones.
I had to disqualify him from ST:MU4 for severe unsporting conduct after he'd repeatedly trolled his way into three infractions and a forum suspension. He was also modkilled in Mind Screw for similar behavior. This kind of disruption can ruin games & I think the Council should consider stopping it from happening again.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player