This is a standard vanilla backbuild round. Backbuild means for each match, your opponent gets the hand you submitted, and you get the hand your opponent submitted, then play as normal, scoring points for winning or tying with the hand your opponent gave you. This means you want your opponent to have the worst possible set of cards to play with, which means you want to submit the worst possible cards you can think of. Maybe you want to take a long time, maybe you want to be very easily disrupted.
3HerziQuerzi : What Goes Around... Karma / Omen Machine / Temporal Cascade / Island
Taking advantage of the swamp is a good plan. It'll be very hard for this hand to win.
5nerdyjoe : Let's kelp it slow Wall of Kelp / Death Frenzy / Murderous Betrayal / Goblin Sharpshooter
Risky to deal damage, risky to have a good blocker, risky to play creature removal, both spot and sweeper, but the payoff is a 500 thousand turn deck.
6Personman : Got your enchanments? Wirecat / Forest / Swamp / Island
Swamp is a good meta call, and the intimidation of an Island is always good. Quick clock, unless people are playing enchantments (they are).
How to Enter
Anyone is free to enter the Perfect Hand Magic League. To enter, simply send a private message (PM) to the user PerfectHandMagic with your deck submission. The standard rules of the format are explained below in the click-able spoilers. If you get stuck or need some advice, please don't hesitate to speak up on this thread or send a private message to user PerfectHandMagic for tips and tutorials. Decks are commonly submitted as:
Card 1 / Card 2 / Card 3
(eg. for a 3 card format)
Please submit your hand by 00:00 GMT Tuesday June 21.
You Make the Format
In PHM we vote on the formats YOU want to play! Submit your ideas for formats into the thread below, and they will be added to the vote for next week's format selection.
Contents
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.1a. Changes to the Comprehensive Rules or the Oracle text of a card take effect at the following times:
i. Changes that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead.
ii. Changes that would take effect at any other time take effect during the first round for which those rules have been in effect since the start of the round instead.
2.1b. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.3a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
i. win the game
ii. take an infinite number of turns
iii. cause a card to leave an opponent's hand.
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.1a. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents' cards had no rules text.
3.1b. That player's hand would be legal if that player's opponents had no maximum hand size.
3.1c. That player could achieve one of these results only during a game that was restarted after an opponent's second turn had begun.
3.1d. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be put onto the battlefield by that effect.
3.1e. All cards that would leave an opponent's hand during the resolution of an effect would be in that opponent's hand once that effect resolved.
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.2a. An unreleased card is treated as though it's legal in Vintage if it will become legal in Vintage upon release and if the release notes for the set that contains that card were published prior to the start of the round (See rule 4.1).
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.2a. If a player submits an illegal hand, then the moderator will try to notify that player to change his or her hand prior to the deadline. If the hand is discovered to be illegal after the deadline – or if the player does not submit a new hand – then the moderator may either disqualify that hand or replace it with a similar hand, in which any cards causing that hand to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
League Points = Points Scored / Number of Opponents x 100 (rounded to the nearest integer)
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
5.3a. If multiple players have the most League points at the end of the League, then the PHM moderator may allow those players to play additional rounds until only one of those players has the most League points or until a specified number of additional rounds have been played.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's results against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
6.3a. Players are encouraged to determine or verify additional match results.
6.3b. An undetermined match result is counted as a loss for both players in that match.
6.3c. A player may challenge any result until the moderator announces that the result is final.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.2a. Some variant formats generate continuous effects. A continuous effect generated by a variant format is treated as having the earliest timestamp within a layer or sublayer. If continuous effects generated by multiple variant formats would apply in the same layer or sublayer, assign timestamps to those effects in the order that the variant formats are listed in the rules or name of the round.
7.2b. Some variant formats require a player to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a hand. A player's submission must comply with the Hand Construction Rules, taking into account any decisions made at this time.
7.2c. Some variant formats require players to make decisions "before the start of each game". For these decisions, follow the "Active Player, Nonactive Player order" rule, replacing "active player" with "starting player".
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.3a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3b. This is the extra land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.3c. This is the draw land rule (DLR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn. A hand may not contain any cards on the Land Rule Banned List.
7.4a. Only cards contained in sets legal in the named format may be submitted.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.5a. If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
7.5b. A player must choose an opening hand that enables that player to win both games of a match against at least one legal hand, irrespective of rule 7.5a.
7.6. Backbuild.
7.6a. Players exchanges hands before the start of each match. A hand must enable the player of that hand to win both games of a match against a specified hand or specified hands. Ignore rule 3.1.
7.7. Bonus Points.
7.7a. A player earns bonus points if his or her hand meets specified requirements.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
scoring points if your submitted hand wins or ties.
Wait isn't this backwards? I get points if the hand I submitted loses (or ties), because I won (or tied) while playing with my opponent's cards. Right?
BronYAur's question needs answering.
Also, unless the hands to beat are something special, I think this format was more-or-less solved back in PHML 43.03.
I forgot that there needs to be a test deck now that you aren't required to submit a theoretically winning hand. Parent is edited.
Battle of Wits and Dovescape are the go-to decks to beat, but I believe that people can cook up slower decks than Battle of Wits. Something involving Sheltered Valley, perhaps. As for Dovescape, there are mono-land decks. I don't know if there's a mono-land deck that is slow enough and non-disruptive enough to lose to doevescape. If no one claims to have a deck that 6-0's Dovescape / Mana Clash by saturday, I'll add Dovescape to the ban list.
Banning those two would be a-ok by me. I don't see how it's futile; they are pretty unique effects that don't just get instantly replaced by other things.
Just a random note, because I think it might come up:
Word of Command cannot force the opponent to play a specific land.
You can only force a player to play a land during his or her main phase, using the main phase special action, when using Word of Command. The issue is that when your imaginary opponent that you have to beat enters her main phase, she has priority. She then plays a Mountain, since she's on to your evil Schemes. She then passes priority, which is the earliest you can play Word of Command during her main phase.. and she's already played a land for the turn, so no luck. Rinse and Repeat ad infinitum, leaving that precious (whichever land) in her hand forever.
Ban List Updated. If you submitted a deck that is effected, I have contacted you about it. Below are some thoughts on proposed banned cards.
Blood Oath doesn't damage the test deck on the draw, so I suspect it is not going to be a problem for this round.
I don't fully understand how Standstill can be problematic in a land rule round. Needing it for serra's sanctum mana makes sense in other formats, but I don't see the issue here.
Impatience is the card that least belongs on the banlist, but it pressures people to play mono-land lists, which isn't healthy.
Near-Death Experience allows a wincon that is disruptable by dealing damage. It and a painland is a potent combo. Playing a deck that forces you to a very low life total is a good plan, but the wincon should not be extra incentive to do that.
Dovescape makes non-creature spells into very fast and efficient wincons, locking out nearly every kind of deck.
Battle of Wits is slow, and damage free. There certainly are much slower decks, and possibly slower damage-free decks. I strongly believe this is not the most efficient way to be slow or damage free. If something is found to be slower and damage free and hard to deal with in the metagame, we can consider banning that, but Battle of Wits probably is not that thing.
I don't fully understand how Standstill can be problematic in a land rule round. Needing it for serra's sanctum mana makes sense in other formats, but I don't see the issue here.
Standstill/Opalescence is the deck here, and it can be format warping. It's not hard to beat by itself, but the decks that beat it are quite specific and have major issues handling other things.
Blood Oath / Planar Overlay has been a bannable combo since at least 2007.
Standstill / Opalescence did very well in 2CB #35.
Blood Oath / Overlay is a weird case, because it can't lose, but it also pretty much just draws with most things. I still think a ban is very reasonable. There's also not a whole lot that outright beats Standstill, check out the results in the link above. I support banning both.
I'm surprised that you think Impatience least belongs on the banlist. It is really the single most oppressive strategy. I am aware of decks that 6-0 it, but there are very few and far between. I'd encourage you to try and find one.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
Does this also apply to shuffling effects?
Also, if a deck is statistically guaranteed to win eventually a la Four Horseman, does that count as a win? What if it is statistically guaranteed to win eventually if it could only take one action a turn, is that sufficient to count as 6-0ing the base hand above? Do we need to demonstrate mathematically that it will eventually win?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
The Four Horsemen deck would not be "statistically guaranteed to win" in PHM. The shuffle would always go wrong and it would not win against the test deck.
Ban List is updated. Thank you all for your feedback. It's great to learn about the game from those who have been playing for so much longer that I have.
Slap Fight: 5 cards, no land rule
The following continuous abilities are in effect: Prevent all damage except combat damage. Each creature has base power 1 and can't have its power increased above 1.
Additional banned list: Leyline of Punishment
6 Personman : Got your enchanments?
Wirecat / Forest / Swamp / Island
Comments:
BronYAur - I originally submitted 3x Adventurer's Guildhouse, but remembered at the last minute that being more like the test deck is better. And lo, my Swamp got me 4 points you missed out on! But it still seems it wasn't enough - the only advantage of Wirecat over Elemental is that it can lose where Elemental might draw, but that only mattered in the same match you could've won by playing Swamp. And you can lose to non-enchantment spells, which got you 6 points from tomsloger I missed out on. CalvinSchwa - When I saw Blessing I was worried, but I don't think Lich's Mirror is really an acceptable card to play in this format :/ HerziQuerzi - Really glad I cut Plains and not Swamp! WhammeWhamme - Congrats on playing an enchantment and not losing to me!
I submitted Worldpurge / Infernal Genesis / Gaze of Justice / Taiga. That doesn't work because the Gaze shuffles second from the top and I can't play the Genesis at the right time to mill it.
I proposed a correction of Taiga -> Upwelling before looking at the thread. As Personman pointed out, I missed that Upwelling allows me to float mana instead of playing lands, so this version makes 4 tokens and the Gaze could have been a land. Taiga was also obviously the wrong land in the first place. The smart version if I had spent more time on it would have been Worldpurge / Infernal Genesis / Iceberg / Scrubland.
9 psly4mne: Minions for everyone!
Infernal Genesis / Worldpurge / Gaze of Justice / Upwelling
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
9 | 2 6 2 6 6 2 6 2 X
1 (BranYAur) Whoever moves first loses
2 (CalvinSchwa) You can ignore me and win
3 (HerziQuerzi) If you try to win by casting Machine + Cascade, the shuffle goes badly for you and I get more tokens
4 (InfiniteNutshell) You can ignore me and win
5 (nerdyjoe) Worldpurge slows you down but doesn't stop you
6 (Personman) Infernal Genesis stops you, but I can't win
7 (tomsloger) You can always have cards to mill and I can't disrupt you
8 (WhammeWhamme) I win by bouncing Lich if you go hellbent, but I can't win if you don't
Taiga -> Upwelling doesn't work either. Your worldpurge picks up the infernal genesis, so it isn't in play to give tokens out until you've drawn all your cards with non-zero converted mana cost. Upwelling doesn't stop the "empty mana pools" clause of Worldpurge either.
Notes:
1: I cast a spell
2: I litterally cannot kill through mirror, but I can remove the lumberknot with leeches on the stack to prevent you from killing me.
3: I need to play a swamp to win. 3 in fact. So that's a quick clock. But if I don't, you can't kill me.
4: You do your thing. its slow. I'm slower. 0 total interaction.
6: I play an enchantment, then proceed to do my thing.
7: You do your thing. It's slow. I'm slower. 0 total interaction.
8: We play lands forever, I make a creature every turn. If I ever cast my lifegain spell, then you cast yours and I can't kill you. If you ever cast Nefarious lich, I kill you. So you can't kill me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4CB LR Backbuild
This is a standard vanilla backbuild round. Backbuild means for each match, your opponent gets the hand you submitted, and you get the hand your opponent submitted, then play as normal, scoring points for winning or tying with the hand your opponent gave you. This means you want your opponent to have the worst possible set of cards to play with, which means you want to submit the worst possible cards you can think of. Maybe you want to take a long time, maybe you want to be very easily disrupted.
Your deck must 6-0 Forest / Swamp / Island / Plains
Deck Size: 4
Land Rule: Basic Land Rule
Additional Banned list: Dovescape, Near-Death Experience, Impatience, Standstill, Blood Oath (Please be sure to review the regular ban list and the land rule ban list at the end of this post)
Entries
1BranYAur : Cast something!
Desecration Elemental / Wastes / Wastes / Wastes
It's a good bet that many people will cast spells.
2CalvinSchwa : Leeches Mirror
Lich's Mirror / Blessing of Leeches / Last Caress / Flowering Lumberknot
Fairly slow, but Lich's Mirror makes it hard for this hand to lose.
3HerziQuerzi : What Goes Around...
Karma / Omen Machine / Temporal Cascade / Island
Taking advantage of the swamp is a good plan. It'll be very hard for this hand to win.
4InfiniteNutshell : Curse your Wits
Curse of the Cabal / Battle of Wits / Forbidden Crypt / Penance
Curse of the Cabal is a lot faster than you hope it is. You can suspend it, then sacrifice a land to it every turn.
5nerdyjoe : Let's kelp it slow
Wall of Kelp / Death Frenzy / Murderous Betrayal / Goblin Sharpshooter
Risky to deal damage, risky to have a good blocker, risky to play creature removal, both spot and sweeper, but the payoff is a 500 thousand turn deck.
6Personman : Got your enchanments?
Wirecat / Forest / Swamp / Island
Swamp is a good meta call, and the intimidation of an Island is always good. Quick clock, unless people are playing enchantments (they are).
7tomsloger : Blazing Salvo
lotus bloom / scrapyard salvo / mnemonic nexus / mnemonic nexus
Good and slow, but damage is always risky.
8WhammeWhamme : Cinder Storm me, Lava Dart you?
Xathrid Demon / Nefarious Lich / Nourishing Shoal / Keldon Megaliths
Damage is always risky, this looks like about 175 turns, so at least you're slow.
How to Enter
Anyone is free to enter the Perfect Hand Magic League. To enter, simply send a private message (PM) to the user PerfectHandMagic with your deck submission. The standard rules of the format are explained below in the click-able spoilers. If you get stuck or need some advice, please don't hesitate to speak up on this thread or send a private message to user PerfectHandMagic for tips and tutorials. Decks are commonly submitted as:
Card 1 / Card 2 / Card 3
(eg. for a 3 card format)
Please submit your hand by 00:00 GMT Tuesday June 21.
You Make the Format
In PHM we vote on the formats YOU want to play! Submit your ideas for formats into the thread below, and they will be added to the vote for next week's format selection.
1. Overview
2. Game Rules
3. Deck Construction Rules
4. Entry
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
6. Scoring
7. Variant Format Rules
1. Overview
Perfect Hand Magic (PHM) is a competitive strategy game for two or more players. It can be played using pencil and paper; however, it's most commonly played via online forum. To play the game, each player secretly chooses a specified number of Magic cards which form that player's hand. Once all players have chosen hands, the hands are revealed and scored.
The object of the game is to choose the hand that will score the most points. The score for each hand is determined by the result that it would achieve if it were used to play two games of Magic – one match – against each competing hand; the rules for these theoretical games are covered in Section 2 – Game Rules. During each theoretical game, the theoretical player of each hand employs the strategy that will maximize the score for his or her hand, taking into account the strategy of his or her opponent.
A hand scores 3 points for each game that it would win, 0 points for each game it would lose, and 1 point for each game that would end in a draw. However, a hand scores only 2 points for any match that would have a symmetrical result, regardless of whether the result would be two drawn games or a win for each hand.
The composition of a hand is limited only by a short banned list and a few restrictions on the game states that it can enable; these restrictions are covered in Section 3 – Deck Composition.
2. Game Rules
2.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
2.2. A player's opening hand contains that player's chosen cards.
2.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
2.4. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid that cost or the owner of the source of that effect instead.
2.5. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
2.6. Players know the identities of all face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
2.7. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
2.8. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
2.9. Cards can't be brought into the game from outside the game.
3. Hand Construction Rules
3.1. A player may not choose an opening hand that could enable that player to achieve any of the following results before an opponent's second turn would begin, such that that opponent could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in at least one of these results:
Ignore this rule in the following cases:
3.2. A hand may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage.
3.3. A hand may not contain any cards on the PHM Banned List.
4. Entry
4.1. A player plays a round of PHM by submitting a list of his or her chosen cards to the PHM moderator.
4.2. A player may change his or her hand until the posted deadline.
4.3. A player may name his or her hand. If that player doesn't, then the PHM moderator may name it. The PHM moderator may also rename a player's hand at his or discretion.
5. Perfect Hand Magic League
5.1. PHM League play consists of four rounds of PHM.
5.2. Each round, a player earns League points according to the following formula:
5.3. The player with the most League points at the end of League play is the PHM League winner.
6. Scoring
6.1. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Each row lists one player's results against each other player. A player's points and League points are tallied at the end of his or her row.
6.2. A player may earn bonus League points as specified by the PHM moderator.
6.3. Each player is responsible for determining the match results for his or her hand.
7. Variant Format Rules
7.1. Perfect Hand Magic has been played with hands containing between one and seven cards. Additionally, the Game Rules and Deck Construction Rules have been adapted to create hundreds of variant formats. Five commonly-played variants are described in Sections 7.3-7.7.
7.2. The rules of a variant format overwrite any other applicable rules.
7.3. Land Rule Variant.
7.4. Sanctioned Magic Format Variant.
7.5. Life Rule (LF).
7.6. Backbuild.
7.7. Bonus Points.
PHM Banned List
The following cards are automatically banned in all Perfect Hand Magic League rounds unless otherwise specified by the round rules. Each round may have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Acceleration
Channel
Fastbond
Flash
Show and Tell
Disruption
Pact of Negation
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Leyline of Anticipation
Trinisphere
Lands
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Win Conditions
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Barren Glory
Laboratory Maniac
Magus of the Moon
Meddling Mage
The Rack
Vampire Hexmage
Land Rule Banned List
"Land Rule" is the most common variant for PHM, and thus a separate ban list has been developed to allow for easier moderation. The following cards are banned in Perfect Hand Magic League rounds when a Land Rule is used. There will be a reminder of this on the round rules.
Acceleration
Black Lotus
Disruption
Balancing Act
Energy Field
Time Walk
Win Conditions
Beacon of Creation
Maralen of the Mornsong
Nezumi Shortfang
Red Sun's Zenith
White Sun's Zenith
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
Wait isn't this backwards? I get points if the hand I submitted loses (or ties), because I won (or tied) while playing with my opponent's cards. Right?
Battle of Wits
Evermind
Evermind
submitted openly.
Also, unless the hands to beat are something special, I think this format was more-or-less solved back in PHML 43.03.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Battle of Wits and Dovescape are the go-to decks to beat, but I believe that people can cook up slower decks than Battle of Wits. Something involving Sheltered Valley, perhaps. As for Dovescape, there are mono-land decks. I don't know if there's a mono-land deck that is slow enough and non-disruptive enough to lose to doevescape. If no one claims to have a deck that 6-0's Dovescape / Mana Clash by saturday, I'll add Dovescape to the ban list.
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
Or is this an exercise in futility, and land rule backbuild isn't a good format to begin with?
Word of Command cannot force the opponent to play a specific land.
You can only force a player to play a land during his or her main phase, using the main phase special action, when using Word of Command. The issue is that when your imaginary opponent that you have to beat enters her main phase, she has priority. She then plays a Mountain, since she's on to your evil Schemes. She then passes priority, which is the earliest you can play Word of Command during her main phase.. and she's already played a land for the turn, so no luck. Rinse and Repeat ad infinitum, leaving that precious (whichever land) in her hand forever.
Thus: Karma+Word of Command is a two-card Bombo this round.
No longer staff here.
Blood Oath doesn't damage the test deck on the draw, so I suspect it is not going to be a problem for this round.
I don't fully understand how Standstill can be problematic in a land rule round. Needing it for serra's sanctum mana makes sense in other formats, but I don't see the issue here.
Impatience is the card that least belongs on the banlist, but it pressures people to play mono-land lists, which isn't healthy.
Near-Death Experience allows a wincon that is disruptable by dealing damage. It and a painland is a potent combo. Playing a deck that forces you to a very low life total is a good plan, but the wincon should not be extra incentive to do that.
Dovescape makes non-creature spells into very fast and efficient wincons, locking out nearly every kind of deck.
Battle of Wits is slow, and damage free. There certainly are much slower decks, and possibly slower damage-free decks. I strongly believe this is not the most efficient way to be slow or damage free. If something is found to be slower and damage free and hard to deal with in the metagame, we can consider banning that, but Battle of Wits probably is not that thing.
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
No longer staff here.
Standstill / Opalescence did very well in 2CB #35.
Blood Oath / Overlay is a weird case, because it can't lose, but it also pretty much just draws with most things. I still think a ban is very reasonable. There's also not a whole lot that outright beats Standstill, check out the results in the link above. I support banning both.
Does this also apply to shuffling effects?
Also, if a deck is statistically guaranteed to win eventually a la Four Horseman, does that count as a win? What if it is statistically guaranteed to win eventually if it could only take one action a turn, is that sufficient to count as 6-0ing the base hand above? Do we need to demonstrate mathematically that it will eventually win?
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
Slap Fight: 5 cards, no land rule
The following continuous abilities are in effect: Prevent all damage except combat damage. Each creature has base power 1 and can't have its power increased above 1.
Additional banned list: Leyline of Punishment
Apologies to psly4mne and Feyd_Ruin who submitted hand, but the submitted hands couldn't be adapted to be legal.
Follow me to be notified when weekly Perfect Hand Magic results are posted
Wirecat / Forest / Swamp / Island
Comments:
BronYAur - I originally submitted 3x Adventurer's Guildhouse, but remembered at the last minute that being more like the test deck is better. And lo, my Swamp got me 4 points you missed out on! But it still seems it wasn't enough - the only advantage of Wirecat over Elemental is that it can lose where Elemental might draw, but that only mattered in the same match you could've won by playing Swamp. And you can lose to non-enchantment spells, which got you 6 points from tomsloger I missed out on.
CalvinSchwa - When I saw Blessing I was worried, but I don't think Lich's Mirror is really an acceptable card to play in this format :/
HerziQuerzi - Really glad I cut Plains and not Swamp!
WhammeWhamme - Congrats on playing an enchantment and not losing to me!
0 | 2 6 6 6 6 X 0 2 | 28
I proposed a correction of Taiga -> Upwelling before looking at the thread. As Personman pointed out, I missed that Upwelling allows me to float mana instead of playing lands, so this version makes 4 tokens and the Gaze could have been a land. Taiga was also obviously the wrong land in the first place. The smart version if I had spent more time on it would have been Worldpurge / Infernal Genesis / Iceberg / Scrubland.
9 psly4mne: Minions for everyone!
Infernal Genesis / Worldpurge / Gaze of Justice / Upwelling
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
9 | 2 6 2 6 6 2 6 2 X
2 (CalvinSchwa) You can ignore me and win
3 (HerziQuerzi) If you try to win by casting Machine + Cascade, the shuffle goes badly for you and I get more tokens
4 (InfiniteNutshell) You can ignore me and win
5 (nerdyjoe) Worldpurge slows you down but doesn't stop you
6 (Personman) Infernal Genesis stops you, but I can't win
7 (tomsloger) You can always have cards to mill and I can't disrupt you
8 (WhammeWhamme) I win by bouncing Lich if you go hellbent, but I can't win if you don't
No longer staff here.
Wall of Kelp / Death Frenzy / Murderous Betrayal / Goblin Sharpshooter
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | PT | Points
5 | 0 2 2 6 X 0 6 2 | 18 | 257
Notes:
1: I cast a spell
2: I litterally cannot kill through mirror, but I can remove the lumberknot with leeches on the stack to prevent you from killing me.
3: I need to play a swamp to win. 3 in fact. So that's a quick clock. But if I don't, you can't kill me.
4: You do your thing. its slow. I'm slower. 0 total interaction.
6: I play an enchantment, then proceed to do my thing.
7: You do your thing. It's slow. I'm slower. 0 total interaction.
8: We play lands forever, I make a creature every turn. If I ever cast my lifegain spell, then you cast yours and I can't kill you. If you ever cast Nefarious lich, I kill you. So you can't kill me.