So Talrand. He seems good.
I've been looking to build a solid 1v1 deck in mono-blue for a while now (and I've been avoiding Clique). I've had a couple false starts, but now M13 is giving me this bad boy and I think He is ideal. He lets you load up your deck with answer cards, leaving most win-cons and board position cards out (since he provides a constant stream of flying attackers). I've been testing a bit now, and I present this rough outline. Anything I should change out or include? My group uses the regular multiplayer banlist, fyi.
UPDATE:
The Canadian Magic Tour is in Ottawa this weekend, and Talrand has been gathering dust for too long now. I managed to beg one of my friends for the use of his Mana Drain and another for his Mana Crypt. BOth of those go a long way towards improving the deck already. I've made a bunch of other changes too. I dropped Isochron Scepter and with it much of the incentive to run so many spells with CMC <=2. That frees up a bunch of slots for better spells like Dissipate and Rushing River. I also dropped all the Time Warp variants except Temporal Mastery. They were always win more, and I hated seeing them in my opening hand. I've upped the number of bounce spells, not so much for my opponents things but to protect Talrand from removal. I still need to find a few more cards for the deck, but the general shell is how I want it for now.
Since you're going for a good amount of cheap draw power, you might be able to get rid of some lands. Also, I don't know if mana leak is used a lot in French, but I don't like it in EDH
@ Jibux: I saw that decklist recently and decided that's a direction I'd like to go with Talrand as well. To your point, what can be done about Volcanic Fallout? Is there any solution in Blue that's worth trying?
And, more globally, have there been more successful strategies than this for Talrand? The strategy is contrary to most advice you see in EDH - all in on the Commander.
@ Jibux: I saw that decklist recently and decided that's a direction I'd like to go with Talrand as well. To your point, what can be done about Volcanic Fallout? Is there any solution in Blue that's worth trying?
Wouldn't it be prudent to toss in a few hexproof-giving pieces of equipment? I realize that we have counterspells and we want to maximize Talrand's ability but you won't always be holding a counter, even with all this draw.
I piloted Talrand to a T8 finish on the last Manila Duel Commander tourney. My list is a bit sub-par though; built the deck an hour before the event based on the list Jibux posted above and I just replaced the cards we didn't have with whatever random blue stuff I found lying around. Playtest? What's that?
R1 Mirror W
R2 GAA4 D (Ran out of turns but I had overwhelming board control)
R3 Sisay W
R4 Mayael W (Featured Match)
R5 ID
QF Jhoira (Volcanic Fallout end of story)
Cards I liked:
1. Commandeer - gain control? why yes please.
2. Tutors / Force of Will - turn three/four talrand with counter backup? gg.
3. Capsize / Whispers of the Muse - stellar in blue stalemates.
4. Pongify - free monkey!
5. Gush - so happy to be able play this outside of vintage.
Cards I didn't like:
1. Inspiration - why couldn't I have found any other blue card?
2. Augur of Bolas - can't get lands. fail.
3. Peer through Depths - see above.
4. Annul - huh.
5. Wipe Away - 3cmc bounce feels so underwhelming.
Definitely should be in the 99:
1. Psionic Blast
Cards I'd like to try:
1. Venser
2. Winding Canyons
3. Cantrip bouncers
4. Teferi
5. Mizzium Skin
6. More free counters
7. Erayo
I'm working on a Talrand Tempo deck myself. When I saw the top 8 list I scratched my head a few times too (Inspiration?) When I wrote out calculations for Vendilion Clique vs. Talrand it seems that Clique has a guaranteed turn 10 win, and Talrand has the potential to, assuming playing him turn 4 and playing a average spell once per turn, winning on turn 9. What was your average win turn?
Here are some cards I question, both in your decklist and mentioned above:
Augur of Bolas- I agree, the only reason to include it is as a blocker and if you have Riptide Laboratory in play
Inspiration: there are better instant speed card draw. I think you should also run the full suite of 1 mana card draw, whether instant or sorcery because once Talrand is on the table, "U for a 2/2 flying cantrip" is very good.
Psionic Blast: I don't see how a sub optimal burn spell is necessary. With a hoard of drakes dealing the 30 damage shouldn't be hard, and bouncing threats and countering them later seems viable.
Venser: I'd rather have Remand. Venser is flexible, and has synergy with Riptide Laboratory, but the less permanent cards, the better. I wouldn't spend 4 mana to remand a card, or 4 mana to bounce a permanent, and as a vanilla 2/2 he doesn't do much after he's in play, but Cryptic Command's modes go by two each, and you get a possible 2/2 flying drake out of casting it.
Winding Canyons: I don't see just having the purpose of flashing in Talrand to be worth giving up a blue mana producing Island.
Erayo: If he flips, awesome. But in your tournament, how often were either 1) chaining cards in a storm fashion or 2) fighting a counter war or 3) watching an opponent chain together a whole slew of spells?
Brainstorm: without multi colors to justify searchlands, the ability to use Brainstorm to ditch useless cards isn't there. It would only serve as discard protection.
Jace, Architect of Thought: the fact that he doesn't protect himself as well as Jace 2, and his ultimate isn't entirely exciting in 1v1... Jace 2 is the lowest threshold that I would ever tap out for something. (That or talrand with free counterspell backup)
Halimar Depths: Again, not a lot of shuffle effects to make it useful
City of Traitors/Saprazzan Skeery: this isn't a ramp deck, it's a Draw-Go deck. mana ramp that dies is awful for this archetype. Mana buildup, like Terrain Generator, Sand Silos and Saprazzan Cove, are more useful.
Arcane Denial: a two mana counter is a 2 mana counter, but it gives the opponent such good card advantage, which is bad.
Pongify: Killing a big threat for U is awesome, but I wouldn't use it on a Drake for flexibility, and I'd prefer bouncing a threat rather than turning it into a different threat that still needs to be dealt with. It ends up costing eventually 2 cards to handle one.
Card suggestions:
Put Isochron Scepter back in. The number of <2 spells may be dropping, but those spells are backbreaking when played over and over again. Memory Lapse, Counterspell, Remand, Boomerang targeting a land, etc.
Alexi's Cloak/Neurok Stealthsuit: Flash makes it a good choice
Coastal Piracy: drawing cards is good.
Opposition: late game lockdown
Clairvoyance: it's Peek #2
Divert: Catch a tapped out opponent off guard. Misdirection #2
Exclude
Frantic Search: Free is free. I'd use this over Brainstorm for ditching unneeded cards.
Gigadrowse: Has the potential to timewalk an opponent by tapping their lands during upkeep.
Interdict: Stifle #4
Long-term plans: Rare instant speed tutor
Mana short: Gigadrowse #2
Prohibit: Replace Arcane Denial with this
Psychic Barrier: Essence Scatter #4
Rewind: Free is free
Sunder: Game ending spell. If you've gone two to two with the opponent bouncing or countering all of the threats, drop Talrand, make drakes, then play this, they should be toast.
Time Stop: instant speed counterspell + time walk
Turnabout: Gigadrowse #3, plus it can either be totally free
Blasted Landscape: Cycling is good, and ETB untapped
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea: uncounterable Howling Mine
Exhaustion: Another potential time walk
Mana Vapors: Another potential time walk
Quiet Speculation: There's plenty of flashback spells being played, so it's easy to pick and choose.
Magosi, the Waterveil: Interesting way to cheat getting another Time walk when there's a Drake army
I've been playing a talrand deck for a while but it's quite different from the decklists on here. I'm playing with more creatures, mostly wizards. I've also tried a merfolk theme with talrand but it was less consistent.
I've found it to be as competitive as it gets. I've been playing a lot of games VS Zur the enchanter, Rafiq of the many, Kaalia of the vast, Memnarch and Krarador.
Sure, there is cantrips and counterspells, so it's more of the same, but the wizards sub-theme adds a totally different perspective.
So Talrand. He seems good.
I've been looking to build a solid 1v1 deck in mono-blue for a while now (and I've been avoiding Clique). I've had a couple false starts, but now M13 is giving me this bad boy and I think He is ideal. He lets you load up your deck with answer cards, leaving most win-cons and board position cards out (since he provides a constant stream of flying attackers). I've been testing a bit now, and I present this rough outline. Anything I should change out or include? My group uses the regular multiplayer banlist, fyi.
UPDATE:
The Canadian Magic Tour is in Ottawa this weekend, and Talrand has been gathering dust for too long now. I managed to beg one of my friends for the use of his Mana Drain and another for his Mana Crypt. BOth of those go a long way towards improving the deck already. I've made a bunch of other changes too. I dropped Isochron Scepter and with it much of the incentive to run so many spells with CMC <=2. That frees up a bunch of slots for better spells like Dissipate and Rushing River. I also dropped all the Time Warp variants except Temporal Mastery. They were always win more, and I hated seeing them in my opening hand. I've upped the number of bounce spells, not so much for my opponents things but to protect Talrand from removal. I still need to find a few more cards for the deck, but the general shell is how I want it for now.
Any suggestions?
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Counterspells: (23)
1 Condescend
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mental Mistep
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Daze
1 Delay
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Complicate
1 Dissipate
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Cryptic Command
1 Foil
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
Ability Counters: (3)
1 Stifle
1 Squelch
1 Trickbind
1 Unsummon
1 Vapor Snag
1 Boomerang
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Into the Roil
1 Snap
1 Snapback
1 Capsize
1 Repulse
1 Rushing River
1 Psionic Blast
Tutors, Cantrips, and Draw: (16)
1 Ancestral Visions
1 Brainstorm
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opt
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visons
1 Impulse
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Telling Time
1 Think Twice
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gush
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
Artifacts: (4)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
Creatures: (3)
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Vendilion Clique
Misc: (1)
1 Temporal Mastery
Lands (36):
25 Snow-Covered Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Halimar Depths
1 Tolaria West
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Winding Canyons
And, more globally, have there been more successful strategies than this for Talrand? The strategy is contrary to most advice you see in EDH - all in on the Commander.
Mizzium Skin beats Fallout.
Not sure if I want to include more creature counters (probably) or free counters in general (Most of them are pretty bad).
How?
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
By pumping toughness.
Got yah. Keep forgetting the first part that gives +0/+1. Always focused on the hexproof.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
There's also Mindbreak Trap.
R1 Mirror W
R2 GAA4 D (Ran out of turns but I had overwhelming board control)
R3 Sisay W
R4 Mayael W (Featured Match)
R5 ID
QF Jhoira (Volcanic Fallout end of story)
Cards I liked:
1. Commandeer - gain control? why yes please.
2. Tutors / Force of Will - turn three/four talrand with counter backup? gg.
3. Capsize / Whispers of the Muse - stellar in blue stalemates.
4. Pongify - free monkey!
5. Gush - so happy to be able play this outside of vintage.
Cards I didn't like:
1. Inspiration - why couldn't I have found any other blue card?
2. Augur of Bolas - can't get lands. fail.
3. Peer through Depths - see above.
4. Annul - huh.
5. Wipe Away - 3cmc bounce feels so underwhelming.
Definitely should be in the 99:
1. Psionic Blast
Cards I'd like to try:
1. Venser
2. Winding Canyons
3. Cantrip bouncers
4. Teferi
5. Mizzium Skin
6. More free counters
7. Erayo
Here are some cards I question, both in your decklist and mentioned above:
Augur of Bolas- I agree, the only reason to include it is as a blocker and if you have Riptide Laboratory in play
Inspiration: there are better instant speed card draw. I think you should also run the full suite of 1 mana card draw, whether instant or sorcery because once Talrand is on the table, "U for a 2/2 flying cantrip" is very good.
Psionic Blast: I don't see how a sub optimal burn spell is necessary. With a hoard of drakes dealing the 30 damage shouldn't be hard, and bouncing threats and countering them later seems viable.
Venser: I'd rather have Remand. Venser is flexible, and has synergy with Riptide Laboratory, but the less permanent cards, the better. I wouldn't spend 4 mana to remand a card, or 4 mana to bounce a permanent, and as a vanilla 2/2 he doesn't do much after he's in play, but Cryptic Command's modes go by two each, and you get a possible 2/2 flying drake out of casting it.
Winding Canyons: I don't see just having the purpose of flashing in Talrand to be worth giving up a blue mana producing Island.
Erayo: If he flips, awesome. But in your tournament, how often were either 1) chaining cards in a storm fashion or 2) fighting a counter war or 3) watching an opponent chain together a whole slew of spells?
Brainstorm: without multi colors to justify searchlands, the ability to use Brainstorm to ditch useless cards isn't there. It would only serve as discard protection.
Jace, Architect of Thought: the fact that he doesn't protect himself as well as Jace 2, and his ultimate isn't entirely exciting in 1v1... Jace 2 is the lowest threshold that I would ever tap out for something. (That or talrand with free counterspell backup)
Halimar Depths: Again, not a lot of shuffle effects to make it useful
City of Traitors/Saprazzan Skeery: this isn't a ramp deck, it's a Draw-Go deck. mana ramp that dies is awful for this archetype. Mana buildup, like Terrain Generator, Sand Silos and Saprazzan Cove, are more useful.
Arcane Denial: a two mana counter is a 2 mana counter, but it gives the opponent such good card advantage, which is bad.
Pongify: Killing a big threat for U is awesome, but I wouldn't use it on a Drake for flexibility, and I'd prefer bouncing a threat rather than turning it into a different threat that still needs to be dealt with. It ends up costing eventually 2 cards to handle one.
Card suggestions:
Put Isochron Scepter back in. The number of <2 spells may be dropping, but those spells are backbreaking when played over and over again. Memory Lapse, Counterspell, Remand, Boomerang targeting a land, etc.
Alexi's Cloak/Neurok Stealthsuit: Flash makes it a good choice
Coastal Piracy: drawing cards is good.
Opposition: late game lockdown
Clairvoyance: it's Peek #2
Divert: Catch a tapped out opponent off guard. Misdirection #2
Exclude
Frantic Search: Free is free. I'd use this over Brainstorm for ditching unneeded cards.
Gigadrowse: Has the potential to timewalk an opponent by tapping their lands during upkeep.
Interdict: Stifle #4
Long-term plans: Rare instant speed tutor
Mana short: Gigadrowse #2
Prohibit: Replace Arcane Denial with this
Psychic Barrier: Essence Scatter #4
Rewind: Free is free
Sunder: Game ending spell. If you've gone two to two with the opponent bouncing or countering all of the threats, drop Talrand, make drakes, then play this, they should be toast.
Time Stop: instant speed counterspell + time walk
Turnabout: Gigadrowse #3, plus it can either be totally free
Blasted Landscape: Cycling is good, and ETB untapped
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea: uncounterable Howling Mine
Exhaustion: Another potential time walk
Mana Vapors: Another potential time walk
Quiet Speculation: There's plenty of flashback spells being played, so it's easy to pick and choose.
Magosi, the Waterveil: Interesting way to cheat getting another Time walk when there's a Drake army
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
I've found it to be as competitive as it gets. I've been playing a lot of games VS Zur the enchanter, Rafiq of the many, Kaalia of the vast, Memnarch and Krarador.
Sure, there is cantrips and counterspells, so it's more of the same, but the wizards sub-theme adds a totally different perspective.
1x azami, lady of scrolls
1x Kaho, minamo historian
1x sower of temptation
1x cephalid constable
1x glen elendra archmage
1x teferi, mage of zhalfir
1x venser, shaper savant
1x arcanis the omnipotent
1x vendillion clique
1x sigil tracer
1x aether adept
1x patron wizard
1x ertai, wizard adept
1x waterfront bouncer
1x kira, great glass spinner
1x snapcaster mage
1x tradewind rider
1x spellskite
Instant/Sorcery:
1x ancestral vision
1x ponder
1x portent
1x gitaxian probe
1x preordain
1x mystical tutor
1x stifle
1x counterspell
1x muddle the mixture
1x remove soul
1x negate
1x snap
1x echoing truth
1x boomerang
1x cyclonic rift
1x into the roil
1x impulse
1x merchant scroll
1x dissipate
1x wipe away
1x capsize
1x frantic search
1x compulsive research
1x psionic blast
1x concentrate
1x foresee
1x talrand's invocation
1x rite of replication
1x cryptic command
1x time warp
1x gush
1x bribery
1x force of will
1x tidings
1x misdirection
1x grafdigger's cage
1x relic of progenitus
1x lightning greaves
1x saphirre medallion
1x vedalken shackles
1x coat of arms
1x opposition
1x jace, the mind sculptor
Lands:
1x cavern of souls
1x wasteland
1x minamo, school at water's edge
1x riptide laboratory
34x island